With The Perrys - Let’s Talk About Boldness

Episode Date: September 4, 2023

Boldness isn’t making public stances on things all the time, and it’s not just saying everything that pops into your head. In this episode, Jackie and Preston talk about what it truly means to cultivate holistic boldness as a Christ follower today. It’s about obedience to God, death to self, and empowerment by the Holy Spirit. And you don’t have to feel bold to be bold. Let’s talk about it.   Take our brief listener survey.  Subscribe to the Perrys' newsletter: https://withtheperrys.myflodesk.com/zhfus4jx1s Join Preston's discipleship community for men: https://www.patreon.com/PrestonPerry/membership To support the work of the Perrys, donate via PayPal: https://paypal.me/withtheperrys Shop BOLD Apparel: boldapparel.shop Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's the saints and the a It's the saints and the ains. It's the people who don't think our podcast is called the Saints and the Yates. It's with the periods. But go ahead. Come on. It's the Saints and the Ain't. It's the Saints and the Ain't.

Your voice sounds so fragile. Right. Broken. It's the Saints and New A. Sound like I smoke loose squares all day. Who the saint and it ain't? We're both saints. Okay.

And they the a ain'ts. They have to ask themselves. You should have to make sure your calling an election is sure. Oh, my goodness. You know, so if you're not bearing the fruits of the spirit or ever grieved by your sin or it ain't nobody in your life affirming that they see Jesus. Oh, I didn't got past the Perry on a roll.

I did got past the Perry on a row. You're the saint without an S. But if you repent and turn to the Lord and faith and put your hope in what Jesus did on the cross, with the power of the Holy Spirit and you begin to show and bear forth the fruit of righteousness, then you could legitimately be a child

of life. I think one of our camera are trying to get saved. Yeah, I'm looking at you. Ishi. De Becky. So anyways, you've been stirring up a lot of controversy lately. Me?

Yeah. Me? Talking about the uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, girl. And stuff like that. Whoa. What is that about? All the single ladies, all the single ladies.

You went back to one of the oldest songs that you could pull. I don't know her new stuff. That's the last stuff used to. I don't know her new stuff. You ain't listened to the new album. Nah. Okay, Renaissance. That's what it's called.

You won't break my soul. I'll be handing out of urban outfits and stuff. Tell everybody. Go ahead. You've been, you know what you've been saying? You've been out here. on social media like explain yourself

I don't know what to say I'm saying like this this this conversation is surrounding around boldness the topic of boldness and you've been bold out here Okay Bold as a lion

Okay All right I got nervous You got nervous You stopped being bold A little bit You don't have to talk about The stuff in particular

Like that you've been But the boldness around What has a lot of What has a lot of? Where has the boldness come from? Has it always been there? Has it been hidden? Has it been buried a little bit?

I think that's a good question. I think that this is a new found boldness that has come out of the Lord consecrating me. And so some of what you see is just a new authority I'm walking in because I'm not walking in the same things that I used to be. But I also think it's, how do I say it?

So for example, I had a conversation with somebody a couple months before the whole Beyonce thing. And they weren't even talking to me around boldness or courage, but they were so explicitly honest publicly about certain things in a way that I always am privately. And it convicted me that I was so free to, to make a stance on certain things like behind closed door.

And I'm not saying that sometimes that's not wise. I don't think you should make public stances on everything all the time. Then you become an agent of controversy. But I think with that, I felt like the Lord was challenging me. And so I went and I prayed. And I felt like the Lord was telling me

that I had been timid and that I had been holding back a lot. And I was processing and trying to trace where that came from. And I realized that it came. came, a lot of it was I started to retreat because of how people were handling me on Twitter. I think just the, and it was mostly evangelicals, if we're honest. The way they were talking about me and the way they were slandering me and the way they were

just mean, I think subconsciously in my mind, I was like, oh, I don't want to feel like this again. So I'm just going to push just a little bit, but not so much that I feel. pain. Yeah. And the Lord was like, that's not what I've called you to do. Yeah,

it's not what you called no Christian to do with. I've called you to be bold. I've called you to be courageous. I've called you to be a kind of prophetic witness for my glory. Like you see things because I want you to say things. Yeah. And so it was me being like, all right, Lord, if you're going to have me out here,

you got to protect me. Because it's another thing, you know, it's not like I wasn't very explicit in both. about the LBGTQ community and my story and all the things. It's not like I haven't been bold, but I think when you start touching on witchcraft, that's a different kind of territory you walking into, right?

And so for me, I sat down with the Lord. I said, Lord, if you go have me out here coming for people who will be with the ancestral worship and all the things, I need you to protect me. I need you to protect my family. Like we're messing with entities at this point. Yeah, yeah, that's good. That's good.

I'm glad we're talking about boldness because I think people, I think you always have people trying to figure out what does boldness look like. What does boldness look like for them? Like I think a lot of times people think boldness is saying whatever pops in your head. That's good, yeah. I'm being bold, but a lot of times it's just being foolish. Yeah. And so how would you define boldness, particularly when it comes to being.

in bold for the Lord. So even though what I'm about to read is in the context speaking to wives and women, I do think it is a general principle that could be applied to any Christian of any gender, which is

and you are her children talking about Sarah, if you do good and do not fear anything that is frightening. That's such an interesting sentence. Yeah, fear what is frightening. Don't fear what is frightening. And I think boldness is moving in the direction of fearlessness, even if you have fear.

Yeah. It's doing the scary thing God called you to do in his power. Yeah. Because I think to your point, I don't think boldness is just doing anything, anything everybody else considers scary. Yeah. So like, I'm going to just say the truth regardless. I'm going to expose all the liars. and all the false teachers and all the people and da-da-da-da-da-da.

It's like what place is that coming from, though? Because if that's coming from pride, it's actually not boldness. Yeah, absolutely. That's really good. Because we've often said, I even made a shirt that said it, boldness is not doing what men are afraid to do. Boldness is doing what God told you to do, which simply means boldness is more about obedience than God

than paying attention to what other men are not doing. Right? And so I think that if we understood that, it's like, man, like, God is, God is not even saying, I don't want you to have, you know, I'm not, you can't be fearful at all. Like, I think a lot of times,

fear might raise up, but obey anyways, right? I think that's what boldness is. One of my favorite stories in the Bible is a man named Joseph Irma Their who buried Jesus. You know, I love his story so much because, one, all four of the gospel writers write about his story.

And the Bible tells us that he was a disciple, a secret disciple in fear that the Jews will kill him, that he was a member of the Sanhedron, that he was a rich man. And he was waiting for the kingdom of God, right? But what I love about this story the most is you have Jesus' public disciples, right, following Jesus all while he was doing his earthly ministry. And as soon as Jesus died, what did they do?

They went in hid, right? They didn't even actually start to be bold for Jesus since the resurrected Jesus appeared, walked through a door, and was like, I told y'all this what happened. Like, why are y'all hiding? Why are you all afraid, right? Because the most dangerous time to follow Jesus was actually after the resurrection

when you can be considered a curse for, you know, following somebody who just died as a curse. But then you have this man named Joseph Ermethea who hid most, well, not most, all of Jesus' public ministry he hid. but he rose his head up in the most dangerous time and went to Pontius Polly and acts for the body of Jesus.

I love his story so much because he showed us an act of boldness when it mattered the most. And I think a lot of times we walk around and we try to say the most boldest outlandish things and God is saying, no, no, no, will you be able to be bold for me when it may cost you something?

Because this man, this man was a rich man and him going to Pontius Polly Polly to Acts for the Body of Jesus what it did, it could have cost him his fortune. It could have cost his reputation. It could have took away, you know, his money, and it could have cost him his life, right? But he risked it all to honor Jesus in that way.

And so what I look at boldness as, I look at bonus is, will you be able to speak up for the Lord when it matters the most? I want to see what Webster defines it as. because that would be interesting. Well, Webster the dictionary? Yeah, so the dictionary, and that ain't saying I'd be trusting all the definitions because they just be changing and adding words all over the place.

But the dictionary says, boldness is the lack of hesitation or fear in the face of risk or danger. Yeah. So obviously boldness is, is boldness is in response to the presence of some kind of fear, which I think is helpful even when we keep bringing up the pride thing, because, you know, we're going to talk about this at a later podcast. There's kind of this surge of podcasters and influencers and content

that is always exposing and always pointing to thinking. you're at and this person's a false teacher and this person's a heathen and this person's a heretic and all the things and people would consider them bold. Yeah. But I think we have to say if you are not afraid to

do it, let me say this. In my experience, the boldness that God has actually called Christians to walk in is a boldness that requires death to self and empowerment by the spirit.

If it is easy for you to do, I don't know if it's actually boat. Does it make sense what I'm saying? Here's the thing, though. I think a lot of... You didn't affirm if it makes sense. It definitely makes sense. It definitely makes sense.

I'm sorry, you just hit my mind going. Okay. Because I think a lot of times people say, well, people think that if I attack a particular Christian online, I'm being bold. But you're not really being bold if you're just being affirmed by the same group of people

who expect you to just be a heresy hunter all day. Oh, so you're about to talk about when the person said you was bold when you made a post about abortion? Because you should. Oh, no, I wasn't about to say that, but that's actually good. That's a great example. Right? Go ahead. Because it's like, you know.

You got to explain it. Well, yeah, this one lady, I came out. Well, the first thing I said about abortion was I challenged people to look at the whole life, not to just care about the child, but also the mother. And everybody who was a, you know, who's against abortion. was just like, no, call a spade a spade. And it's like, no, I am calling a spade of spade. I'm just being well-rounded in the argument

and allowing y'all to see different perspectives. And so when I came out and talked about my stance with abortion, this lady was like, gas-pressed, and finally, you're being bold about this topic. And I was like, no, I'm not being bold because most of my followers, are evangelicals who agree with me. It doesn't take a level of boldness for me to come out and say this.

It takes a level of boldness for me to go to, approach choice rally and to say this. But to y'all, you know, and so a lot of times you have these heresy hunters who are making videos about, you know, the latest preacher who just says something and all your followers love it. It's like, no, you're getting an itch scratched here.

It's not a level of bonus, but are you speaking when the Lord wants you to speak? That's the difference. But here's another side. You ready? What? The presence of boldness is not also in the expressing criticism. Yes.

Because sometimes you have to be bold to actually affirm, pour into, and build up people publicly or privately, right? If you have somebody, for example, that has fallen in your church and everybody is talking about them and gossiping and slandering them, it takes boldness to say, A, maybe we should pray for them. Maybe we should build them up. maybe we should stop tearing people down, right?

And so, like, to think that boldness is always critique is problematic. But also, too, you know, not to go back to the Joseph of Arimathea's story. I just want to go back to there real quick, right? Please, do it. Because people might not understand the significance of what this man did. Help us out. Right? This man, we have to understand this man was a member of the Sanhedron.

Okay. What does that mean? I don't know. He was a member of the same group of men who called for Jesus' death. Uh-huh. The Bible says, I think in Matthew Luke, that he literally was afraid of saying that he was a follower of Jesus because he feared that they will kill him.

Context. Right? Yes. And so when he went to Pontius Polly and asked for the body of Jesus, he risked everything. But notice how he didn't go to Pontius Polly and curse Pondius Pallet out. He didn't go to the Roman officials and say, y'all got me messed up.

Jesus. No. What he wanted to do was in Jewish culture, when somebody would die, you had to bury them the same day. Historical context. Right, right. You had to bury them the same day.

And so he said, you know what, I have a tomb that I bought for myself. And so because I was a coward all my life, right? Which is the opposite of boldness. What I want to do is I want to honor my Lord and Savior who I didn't honor publicly in his death. And I want to bury him in my own tomb. Yeah.

And so boldness is not about addressing men at times, but it's about honoring and showing up for Jesus. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? And a lot of times we look at boldness like, oh, I got to address this. I got to address this person. I got to address this person. It's like, no, sometimes it's you showing up for Jesus in a world that hates him.

And we don't know how to do that because we're not laid by the spirit. We lay about social media. We lay about comments and views. And so you're not. You're not bold because you call it on Mike Ty every week. That's not boldness. You probably are low-key coward. I'm just being.

I'm honest. You keep going. It's not boldness. What this man did was bold. It was bold. He risked everything. And if you ain't willing to do that, you ain't bold. I'm sorry.

I got a little stirred up. Yeah, he did. So, I don't even know where to go from there. Because I gave anxiety a bit. Because I'm so sick of Harris, you hunters. I heard Mike Todd. It got stressed out. I didn't know what to do.

I'm just sad. I didn't know what to do no more. I want to broaden this conversation a bit because is boldness always speaking? No. I think boldness, I really think boldness has more to do with obedience. Right? Because the Bible tells us that he has not given us a spirit of fear, but a spirit of love, power, and a sound mind, right?

And I think what fear does, it clouds our mind, right? It doesn't allow us to think critically, right? It doesn't allow us to remember the love that we've been given. And so just fear just clouds our judgment. And I think when we seek the Lord, I think boldness is just walking in obedience. And so I think that looks like a lot of different things.

You know what I mean? Does that make sense? Yeah, because I ask that because I ask that because, I don't want us to just restrict the way boldness can be, like, lived out in our lives because I think boldness is not just speaking, but being, being bold, right? And so in the friendships that I build and the relationships that I might have to tear down and the jobs that I commit to and the jobs that I quit from and the schools that I apply for and the schools that I leave, like there's a sense in which boldness is required in that, too.

because in the same way that timidity is present in speech, it's also present in being. It's like if I am scared of a thing, I will run or like back up, right? But if I'm bold, if I'm courageous, like you got, you know, people like Joshua or Moses when they were supposed to cross over into the land of Canaan. God was not saying be bold like as in articulating something. It was be bold as and move towards where I've called you to be, right? It's like it's a being kind of thing.

And so I think how can we then, how do we cultivate that full boldness? Do you give them what I'm saying? Not just in our speech, but in our behavior. Yeah, because I think to go back, I think it's about, I think when we start to cultivate a holistic boldness in our everyday Christian walk, I think we'll see a lot of more Christians showing up instead of just talking on social media, right? For example, right, a lot of Christians are mad at Target right now, protesting Target because of the whole, you know, LGBT-Q stuff or whatever.

But this is like, it's easy to get on social media and to act bold with words, but how are you serving your community in a way that counteracts that, right? How are you showing up in ways, right? Because I think that that's also a lot, like boldness should move you into action, not just words. Right? And so how are you allowing boldness to move you into action to counteract that? Because a lot of times it's easy to hide behind a phone screen, but it's not easy to show up and to and to disciple or to try to evangelize or disciple a world that's trying to evangelize and to reach you and to reach our children. And so I think that God wants his people to be actors of bold. It's not just spewing out what's true. on what's false on social media?

I think one, we should identify what we're afraid of. That's good. What are we afraid of? A very practical example. Two days ago, somebody text me something, and they had an issue with something I did. It wasn't a big issue. It was just a miscommunication, right?

I didn't want to engage in a conversation, and I know myself now enough to be able to pay attention to my body and say, okay, what am I feeling? I was like, I'm feeling anxious. Why am I feeling anxious? Because I'm afraid. What are you afraid of? And I realize that my history with that person is that sometimes when we have had conversations that are hard, I leave on the other end feeling bullied, right? And so I had to trace it like, oh, I'm afraid that I will be bullied. Then what are you afraid of? I'm afraid God isn't with me. So now the prayer is, God, give me the boldness to engage in this conversation with fear because I trust that you're with me.

That's good. Right? And so like processing through the fear, bringing God into the fear, entrusting yourself to God, because even Jesus, it says that like he did not revile in return because he entrusted himself to the one who judges justly. And so just our even in our relationships, there's a lack of boldness because we haven't considered the reality of God's character. That's really good. That made me think about the disciples and how like I said when Jesus died, they went in, they went and hid because they were afraid. It was like, yo, we've been following this man, but they actually really killed them. And so we next, right? And so they went ahead. And it wasn't that Jesus appeared to them after his resurrection and basically, you know, assured them

that, you know, he'll be with them into the end of the age and stuff like that. And they started to walk in this boldness. But, you know, in Acts 4, I think it was John and Peter who, who essentially, you was out preaching the gospel and Peter ended up healing this man who was crippled. And they was thrown into jail. And when they was thrown into jail, you know, they had to wait to the next morning for them to kind of, you know, be judged by the officials and all of that. And they had all night, you know, to think about their depth. So I wrote about this in my book, but just think about what they had to been going through, right? trying to

like when you're sitting in jail and knowing that you might die your mind becomes really creative. Right? You start to think about am I going to be beheaded? Are they going to hang me? You know, are they going to crucify me like they did Jesus? But it says that

when they were released out of prison, you know, the Roman officials conserved that they were uneducated men and that they had been with Jesus because of how bold they spoke, right? And I love that so much because, like, I think a lot of times when we think about boldness,

we think about, like, like, just having the courage to say whatever, you know, you know, whatever. But, like, they had boldness because they had spent time with Jesus. And spending time with Jesus allowed them to show up in a way that they couldn't show up before, right? And so I think that's what boldness is. boldness isn't being not afraid like other men, no boldness is having time to sit with Jesus

and allowing His Holy Spirit to work with you. They left and they said they pray and the Holy Spirit filled them with more boldness, right? And so I think we have to be with Jesus if we're going to be out here trying to be bold in the world. We struggle with courage, struggle with boldness because we struggle with being dependent. And I say that because...

That's good. to spend time with Jesus in a way that is fruitful means to actually let your weaknesses out. Yeah. It's to say, God, I'm scared. Like, I'm scared, but we don't like to feel our feelings. That's good. And so if authentic, honest, transparent prayer requires you to feel something,

you're going to withhold that fear from God and thus not get the power that you actually need. And so in Acts chapter 4, we all know this passage, but it's necessary. The believers, you know, chief priests, they didn't got mad because Peter and them, they speak in Jesus name. And they didn't come together and have like a Zoom call about how to strategize around the fact that the chief priests don't want them to speak in Jesus name. They didn't use their intellect. They recognized that they were up against the wall. they were terrified because remember,

their Lord just got murdered on a cross. So these cats could kill them too, okay? Verse 23, when they were released, I'm about them, they went to their friends and reported, I said it's talking about them, Peter Nell. Peter Nip. They went to their friends and reported what the chief priest and the elders had said to them.

And when they heard it, they lifted their voices together in God and said, sovereign Lord, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them, who through the mouth of our father, David, your servant, said by the Holy Spirit, Verse 28, to do whatever your hand and your plan have predestined to take place. And now, Lord, look upon their threats and grant to your servants, grace your servants,

to continue to speak your word with all boldness. Verse 31. And when they had prayed the place in which they were gathered together with shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit. That implies that the boldness comes from a person, not you, but the person of the Holy Spirit. And continue to speak of the word of God. with boldness.

We will only be as courageous insofar as we are dependent on God to give us the grace to be it. You understand what I'm saying? That's good. That's really good. And I love, I'm trying to find the scripture. You just read it. What was...

Acts 4. No, I'm in Acts 4. It was the passage where they said Jesus, they said something along the lines of, you predestined something. Yeah, that's Acts 4 Verse 28.

28. That's why I'm over here. Yeah. And so, like, I love the fact that it says, like, in their prayer, their prayer to the Lord after they were released from prison, it was a very rational prayer. Because before, when it was hidden, you know, after Jesus's crucifixion,

they didn't under, like, fear didn't allow them to understand that everything that just happened to Jesus was predestined by God. And so if it was predestined by God, there was no need for you to be afraid, right? But a lot of their boldness came from the Holy Spirit, not giving them the spirit of fear, but what, a sound mind to know that Jesus' death was predestined before the foundation of the earth?

That's good. And if Jesus' death is predestined before the foundation of earth, so is mine. I'm not going to die until Jesus says I will. Come on, dear! Right? I'm not going to be crucified until Jesus says. I didn't think that's where you was going, but I liked it when we got there.

Yeah, but seriously. And so a lot of our, a lot of our fear, and the lack of boldness, it's us not being rational to think that, no, that my life is in God's hands. If God wants you to have that job, say it. That's true. You know what I'm saying?

If he wants you to stay here, he's not going to allow you to get fired. That's true. You know what I'm saying? If he wants you to be in this community, he's not going to allow people to turn on you. If people do turn on you, it's because he wants it, right?

And so I think a lot of our boldness comes from just believing that God is sovereign over our lives. You know what I'm saying? And so, like, that's what their prayer was. Like, Lord, you'd be destined upon his pollen and Herod to do all these things. And so now give us the boldness to believe that. That's true. And so I'm over here like, that's truing it up because it's true.

Yeah. Like, I was thinking about how, you know, when you're in seasons where provision is a bit sketchy. Yeah. I feel like that's when my faith is challenged the most to be. courageous enough to trust that God sees my needs and will handle it when he decides to. That's good. You know what I'm saying? Elaborate on that though.

So, and I don't know if this has anything to do with courage, perhaps it does, because joy takes courage. You know, hope takes courage. Like, to believe that God won't put you to shame that he's not going to have you out here looking crazy. Like, it takes some hope

to believe that, which is scary to do, right? So maybe it is attached to boldness. But I, What I mean is when you have needs and you don't know where the manna is coming from, I feel like

that is when you're challenged to believe if God actually exists or not. Does he really exist? If he does, does he see me. If he sees me, does he care about what he sees? And so I think that's honestly I think why God puts us in positions where our money

it gets funny so often because it shows, it challenges what we like worship around and what we praise God for, but it pulls it out of us. Even in Deuteronomy when God was talking about how he let Israel hungry, he was like, I let you hunger and then served you with manor so I could test you. Wow. Testing is a act of revelation. I want you to see what's in your own heart because I already know. That's good. You know what I'm saying? And so I think I don't even know how to, circle back to what I'm trying to say. Basically, I feel like the sovereignty of God

is also a part of the existence of God, which also begs the question of the personality and character of God. And I feel like all of that is challenged when we identify what we're actually afraid of. And usually at the bottom of some kind of fear, it has to do with what we believe about God. Yeah.

Is he with me? Yeah. Does he love me? Does he see me? Does he care about me? Does he hear me? Will he respond to me? Will he save me? Will he deliver me? You delivered them, but what about me?

That's good. That's good. Yeah. Because I really think our bonus has to start with what we believe about the Lord. Like if you're not confident that he is the creator of all things and that and that he like orchestrates all things. Right. And that he will never allow us to go through purposeless evil. Like no evil that we will experience on this earth will be purposeless.

because all things will work out for the good of those who are called by God, called according to his purpose. I just jacked that whole scripture up. You get what I'm trying to say. Like all things will work out for the good of those who love God and called according to his purpose. And so I think if we believe that, I think then we'll start walking in more boldness.

Because for me, I know, you know, the times that I've lacked boldness is the times I had the inability to remember what God has brought. me from what God has brought me out of. And so because I had the inability to remember, right, the goodness of God, I lost sight and how God will keep me in the future. And so I remember when I first became a Christian and I was super bold, you know, on the streets, giving the gospel, you know, to strangers. But in my first family reunion, I was afraid to give the gospel to my cousins because I didn't

want to be outcast in my family. I didn't want to be the weirdo. I didn't want to be the person like, oh, like, you change. And it was like, no, like, am I not the same God who's kept you these last three years since you've been a Christian? I'm the same God who will, you know, who will keep you now. And so I think just having confidence in who God is would allow us to walk forward. I think before we end, I have to speak to the fact that boldness isn't a feeling. because I really do think that we feel like we have to feel bold to be bold.

And that it just don't work that way. You know what I'm saying? Like even with Acts 4, which I just quoted, at the end of verse 31 or 31, 30 or 31, it says, and they continue to speak the word of God with all boldness. So they were already actively speaking the word of God. And so it wasn't like they waited to feel boldness. then they spoke. Yeah.

They just continued in what they were doing. And as they continued, the Holy Spirit came alongside and blessed it, right? And so sometimes you just have to do it. Yeah. You just have to pray fast, do whatever you, and just do it and wait on the Lord. Yeah. Who will renew your strength, right? That's good.

If you wait to feel it, it probably ain't going to happen. Yeah, that's good. That's real good. That's a good word. But, peace. I think that's it. All right. With the Perry's is produced by The Perrys with support from Amanda Reed and Channing B. McBride.

Editing by Xavier Fairley, video recording and audio production by Kim Powell, artwork by hop, and music by swoop. If you'd like to support the Perrys, you can visit the link in the show notes. This is With the Perrys. Thank you for listening. Now go with God.