With The Perrys - Let’s Talk About Covetousness

Episode Date: June 1, 2026

When you hyper-focus on what you think you lack, you aren’t practicing gratitude, and you can become discontent. When you covet what someone else has, you will start to believe that God is withholding something good from you. That means our discontentment is not about our life circumstances but about the state of our hearts.  Melissa Kruger joins the Perrys to talk about a book Jackie stumbled upon when looking for resources on the topic of covetousness – one that Melissa wrote back in 2012 called “The Envy of Eve: Finding Contentment in a Covetous World.” Whatever you’re wanting, it will not ultimately be soul-satisfying. We spend our time chasing the contentment we want when it’s available to us simply by abiding with Jesus.  Connect with Melissa: https://www.instagram.com/melissabryankruger  https://melissabkruger.com/ Check out Melissa's book, "The Envy of Eve: Finding Contentment in a Covetous World" – https://www.amazon.com/Envy-Eve-Finding-Contentment-Covetous/dp/1845507754 Jackie and Melissa's Ephesians study with Jasmine Holmes: https://www.lifeway.com/en/product/ephesians-bible-study-book-with-video-access-P005843174? Scripture References Genesis 3 Philippians 4:11-13 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18 This Episode is Sponsored By: https://weekendtoremember.com — Register now with code PERRY to save $100 on any getaway! - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's good with y'all? Kind of just want to get started in the conversation. You're excited about this one, huh? I shouldn't be. You should be. Freedom. Freedom. Yeah.

Because we got Melissa Kruger with us again. Y'all saw Melissa earlier a couple weeks ago when we sat down with her. And Mike, not Dr. Krueger, Mike Kruger, to talk about disciples and our kids. But now we're talking to Melissa about some. that people don't talk about enough. I've been telling Melissa that she need to rewrite. Not even rewrite, do it, put some addendums on there or something. Like to just this book, let me tell the story.

Can I tell the story? Go ahead. Okay, about six months ago, there was like some stuff I was wrestling with, primarily jealousy. Anytime I'm wrestling with stuff, it's a weird thing. It's like I want to understand it so I can fight it better. So I just start looking at books about the subject. And so I started, I started reading about jealousy, which took me to this idea of contentment, which took me to

this idea of covetousness. I said, huh, that's weird. I didn't even know there was a connection there. So I'm Googling books about covetousness. I see this book called the Enviate Eve written by Melissa Crook. I said, Melissa, you got a book about comedy. I was just going to call you, girl, and I did call you. I know.

So Melissa has a book that she wrote a long time ago that is. So relevant. How long ago? It came out in 2012. You had babies. It's my baby book. It's my first book. Is it? Yes, the first book I wrote. And I was, yes, I was writing it. Wow. I was writing it around 2009. So I've been reading it all more and I thought it was a new book. Yeah. It's relevant. It's called the Envi of Eve finding. It was pre- Instagram. Was it? So you was on Twitter. I mean, there was actually, I wasn't even on Twitter. I wrote a book before Twitter. I was on Twitter or Instagram. So you just promoted it by going to like Barnes and Nobles and stuff. Yeah.

Read my book. It was a different world. It was a different world. Why is your first book about covetousness of all the things to talk about, Melissa Krueger? That might get into personal places, Jackie. You don't have to be transparent. No, that's it. Because that's diving off the deep end.

It is. That's a good question. One, I would say what I was seen in scripture was intersecting my life. So you have that moment when you're like, huh, I'm studying. I was actually studying the book of Joshua. You know, completely not the book you think, oh, this is a book on envy. I was studying that. But what I was realizing was I had finally what I would say, gotten what I wanted.

You know, you think, oh, yeah, you spend your life thinking, oh, yeah, I want to one day get married and one day have kids and, you know, one day have the house. and we had spent a lot of time moving. We had lived overseas, which at different points was really hard for me. And I had my first baby overseas. And I remember thinking, if I could just do this in America, it would be a lot easier. You're constantly comparing your situation with someone else's. Well, then finally, I was back in America. Mike had a job because at that time, when we had Emma, he was in school.

In Scotland, right? Yeah, in Scotland. So money was really tight. All these things, I thought, once I get those things, things, my life will be fine. And then the Lord gave me those things. And then I realized I wanted more. And I realized I started having to deal with the fact that my discontentment was not about my circumstances, but it was about my heart. And what I was looking at in Joshua and seeing some connections with Eve, I started seeing this pattern in scripture. And I really saw it as the

the pattern of the enemy that played out in my life so much is that see, C, covet, take hide. And I was just confronted with the circumstances of my life and the scriptures in this beautiful way. And so I wanted to explore more. And what I saw was, it wasn't just me. Yeah. I could look around and say, wow, this comparison game is just robbing us all of joy.

And so. Wow. What did you discover about Eve or how to, because I mean, I think when people read Genesis 3, we easily identified deceit and pride. But I guess what about that exchange with Satan and even how she viewed the tree showed you covetousness? Yes, what was actually, so when I was studying Aiken in Joshua. So if you remember the story, they've just had the battle of Jericho, the walls come down, and they were told, the Israelites were told when you go in,

everything's dedicated to the Lord. Don't take anything. Well, then the next battle against AI, they go out and they, you know, they get defeated. And Joshua's like, what's happening? What's going on? And basically the Lord's like, you've got somebody in the camp who has sent.

And they go tribe by tribe. And now we get there with Aiken. And Aiken confesses. And he says, when I saw, basically the stuff, There was a robe, some gold, some silver. He goes, I coveted, I took them, and I hid them. And there's actually a little note in my Bible that said, this is the same pattern in the garden.

And so I was like, huh, is it? And so I looked it up and I did a word study on the word covet, and it's the exact same Hebrew word. It says she saw that it was desirable. That word is the same word chamomad. I'm probably saying that incorrectly, but that is used to be translated covet. So it's like she saw that it was covetable in some sense. And then she took and she ate it.

And what did she do? She hid. Yeah. You know, it's the exact same pattern. And then once you see a pattern, you start seeing it everywhere. Yeah. Because then you've got David. So this is what's interesting.

First garden, see, covet, take, hide. Then we're in the promised land. First victory. see, covet, take, hide. First, king of all kings, I mean, he wasn't the first king. Saul was the first king, but David was the king after God's own heart. What did he do? Oh, he saw Bathsheba.

He coveted, because lust is a form of coveting. He took. And what did he do? He hid what he had done. Yeah, he did. And so you start to see that pattern all over scripture. You're like, hmm, maybe this is a problem for me too. Yeah. Another thing that you pointed out in your book as it relates to Genesis 3 is that Adam and Eve was provided with everything they needed.

Like he literally gave them all that they needed to flourish, gave them the garden, told them to tend over it, gave them two trees, right? The knowledge of good or evil and the tree of life. And what is it in us that makes us want things to cover things that that's not? ours. Like what is that? What do you think that is? Well, I think the first thing that happened in the garden is really informative for us, because the first thing is basically Satan is coming to them. And we hear the question he asks them. And the underlying assumption is, is God really good? Isn't he keeping something from you? Because, you know, if you could eat of it, you know, you'd be like God, knowing good and evil. And so I think there's,

this question that comes to all of us, is God keeping something good from you? And I think that's at the heart of my coveting. It's not simply, oh, I have a desire, because here's the reality for all of us, which was not true of Adam and Eve. We all live on the other side of the fall. So I always want to say having desires isn't wrong. You know, there are really good desires we can have. It's when it turns covetous, it's not. normally actually not about my circumstances and about actually what I think about God. And it gets into two ways. Are you good?

And are you able to make a difference? And in some ways, that's exactly what Satan was saying. Because it was kind of like, surely you won't die. God's not really going to care about this. I know he said he was, but he's really probably not going to. Who cares? And that's, I think, how he tempts us. Like, God didn't care about your little inner desires.

Yeah. Yeah. I was sharing with Preston earlier how, because covetous is the last command. Yeah. And how I was listening to this podcast. I always mentioned Tim Kelly because I listened to him all the time. But Tim had a sermon about contentment. And he talks about covetousness and how it's kind of bracketing.

the command to, you know, love the Lord, not make idols and stuff like that. And then it's ending with covetousness and how it's like when you covet, you break the first command, which inevitably causes you to break all of them. And I think knowing that you realize how covetousness influences so many of the sinful decisions that we make. You know what I'm saying? Because I think we think, oh, yeah, I'm lustful, as you say, but you don't realize that that lust is being produced by covetousness.

I remember telling you, I was like, when I started to think through all the ways covetousness manifested in my life, I was like, even lesbianism is covetousness. I'm pursuing something outside of God's design for me. I'm trying to grab at something that I'm actually not supposed to have. I would dare argue that transgenderism is a form of covetousness where you are in a male body or a female body grabbing at a gender that does not belong to you. And not only that lusts. I mean, I think a lot of men, I've said this before on podcast, but a lot of men watch porn vicariously living through men who are not being rejected. And so it's not just the mere lust, but it's also this idea of not being like being the man,

being wanted, being desired, especially if you feel rejected in your marriage sexually. And so it covers so much. And covetousness is kind of that umbrella, right? So you've got types. You know, you've got lust, which is normally sexual in nature. But you've also got greed. We see the world, right? I mean, it's all, you know, I mean, I think was it Emerson who said how much is enough?

He's like, well, just a little bit more. I'm not sure who said it. But, you know, and then you've got envy, which is a little bit like your neighbor, you know. So is covetousness different than envy? I think envy is a type of covetousness. So I call covetousness the big name for all types of what they were. say would be like inordinate desires. Like desires, I just like to say it, like desires that have soured.

You know, desires that just either, and I think you bring up a good point. Either they're on, we can have a desire for a good thing that turns sour, or we can have a desire for something that's clearly outside of what scripture says. So for instance, like if I have a desire for a husband, that's a good thing, but we've all seen that desire turn sour in people. But now if I have a desire for your husband, that's a bad thing. Yes. All together.

So the desire in itself is bad. And so that's where, you know, we've got it. It's helpful to understand there are two different ways we can kind of go off the rails. Wow. Marriage is a beautiful thing. It's a covenant that God himself created, a covenant that we are called to honor and uplift and esteem and value. But it's also difficult. Sorry, I got called my throat because I was talking about the difficulty of being married to a sinner.

And that's why we need help. Whatever season your marriage is in, whether you need rescue or renewal, a weekend of intentional time together can be the turning point that changes everything. Weekend to remember has helped millions of couples over the last 40 years with 80 plus events across the country. So there's likely one near you. My personal experience for a weekend to remember was a lovely one. I think seeing the intentionality that they put in all of the activities, allowing married couples to connect, I thought it was really dope. Not only that, we know some of the speakers. And so being able to fellowship with them over the weekend was really good.

And just seeing that God has really put it on the heart of people in the body of Christ to really care about marriage and support to marriages around the country was a really dope thing to see. so I definitely will be returning to Weekend to Remember because I think it's beneficial and vital to every marriage. Learn practical, biblical tools for communication, conflict, and connection and come home closer than when you left. Register now with Code Perry to save $100 on any getaway at Weekend toremember.com. That's weekend toremember.com. Code Perry. I want to connect this to God again because it's it. it's connected to him because the root of covetousness, even as you communicate in the book,

is unbelief. And I think sometimes there's a lack of awareness of how our desires are influenced by our frameworks. And so I guess I want to flesh out more what the consequence of just not trusting him is. And you know what I'm saying? And helping people think through if I'm greedy or naturally, even when you were in Scotland, you alone. You want your friends. You want a washing and dryer, like all of that. You wouldn't think that just wanted to wash her and dryer is a manifest of unbelief. Somebody would say that's dramatic.

Yes. You understand what I'm saying? So like talk about the unbelief part of all of that. Yes. And that's where there are days I held that desire rightly. And I could say, Lord, this is your will for me. You should have to walk down five flights of stairs to do my laundry. I'm going to trust you with it. But then, you know, it can turn sour. And we know that in our own hearts when I'm grumbling and complaining. Look at the Israelites. They always got in trouble because they grumbled and complained about God's provision.

Because basically, at some level, my unbelief is saying, God, you haven't been good enough to me. And so I think it's this battle in our souls. And here's the saddest thing to me. if we want a down payment on is God promising he'll be good for us. He's giving it to us. And Romans tells us this. He says, basically, this God, if you want to know for sure if he loves you, he says, well, actually, I came into this world.

I became a man and I suffered and died, a terrible death on the cross so that I might be with you. And then he's like, can you trust me with everything else? And I'm basically saying, well, yeah, I know you came and you died for me, but you did that for her too and you gave her the minivan I want. What that is saying is I knew nothing of what was done for me. Yeah, it's kind of like this. The example I like to get is if I gave you $100 million and you $100 million, and then I gave Jackie a penny and you were like,

I can't believe you don't, you're not good to me. I gave you both $100 million because you understand what that gift was so you know every single thing in this world is a penny in comparison

to the fact that Jesus Christ gave his life for me I mean I have eternity and so it's my unbelief in that home that makes me try to make this world my home that's really good

do you think you know how a Romans one, it says, where is it at? I can't find it, but where they thought themselves wise. Yeah. Do you think there's a part of us where we think ourselves wiser than God? Like, it kind of has this sense of like, we are low-key, not like obviously, but like we're low-key accusing God of some type of injustice. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I realized actually Mike, he has this example that he put on a board, and it wasn't about this topic,

but he drew a big circle on this white board. And he was like, if we were to greatly limit God, and we said, this is everything God knows about everything. Yeah, and that's obviously limiting because we know he's infinite, all-knowing. Yeah, but if we said,

and then if we were to overestimate ourselves and it put a little small dot on that big circle, that's how much we know about the universe. And here I am the dot, saying to the master of the universe, I really know better how my life should run. And think about how terrifying it would actually be if we were in charge of our lives. It would be like giving full rein to a toddler in the house. Wow. Horrific.

You know, and we all look at the toddler and we know when to say no. Yeah, yeah. And we know when it's not better. Yeah. And I think it's really hard for us. That's where the unbelief comes in. I can't believe that this might be for my best good. But he promises that actually everything he's doing, he is working for good.

It doesn't mean everything's good. I always want to stress that. We can mourn. That's why there are Psalms of Lament. I mean, you know, I talk about crying all the time. I mean, there's a right thing to mourn, but I think it's a really different thing to complain to God than to complain about God. So that's where I think this is.

difference, the heart of the difference. One thing I love about the book is, I think you do a really good job of explaining how the enemy wants us to cover things, not to just question the character of God, but also to rob us of relationships. And one quote that you said in the book that I really love. I want y'all to keep talking. But because this is our podcast, I feel like I have the right to interrupt and let y'all keep talking because it's getting hot and I just want to turn the air up.

Don't hear. All right. You said if you set your desires Or your affections or what belongs to your neighbor You will never be able to love the person well You will think of them only in terms of what they possess Instead of who they are I was like

And I've I've had You know Very heartbreaking Friendships that kind of ended You know of people who I felt like It's weird like I feel this weirdness between us and I know you like me,

but I feel like at times they wasn't able to love me because they looked at what I have. Just explain how that, like go deeper and how like the enemy wants us to cover things to ruin the relationships in our lives and what does that practically look like and how to avoid it. Yeah, it's a double-edged sword this end

because it vertically makes us not trust the Lord. And then horizontally, we start looking at someone else as the sum of what they have. So let's say, you know, I mean, in my case, I could say, okay, let's say I'm a woman and I desperately want a husband. Well, you have one. And now you can't get how hard my life is.

So there's, you know, and when you have a struggle, I'm kind of like, well, yeah, but, you know, you have a husband to help you out. Totally missing that actually sometimes your husband might be the cause of your struggles. Sorry. Never. I'm sure that never is the case. No, it is. But we miss each other, right? I can't listen to your story because I'm so obsessed with what's lacking in my own story that I miss you. Wow.

Because it's just complete self-focused. You have the one thing I want, so therefore you must have no problems because I've made it an idol. So therefore, that's the one thing I would trust for my security, my safety, whereas that should all be on the Lord. And then if we both have the Lord, I can love you even when you have the thing I very much desire because I know we both have the better thing. Yeah, it robs us of like real true connection. Yeah. Because we, because I think what you're essentially saying is when we covet after other people's possessions or things, we never really see them. That's right. We don't, we never see them. And so you, don't see them, you never really connect. And I think I've been guilty of that, you know, in the past. I think we've

all kind of been guilty of that. Because I think it's hard not to like see somebody else and not compare yourself at times what other human means. And I think the verse that really struck me about that is rejoice with those who rejoice and mourn with those who mourn. And what I find when I'm coveting in some way, I really find it hard to rejoice. Oh. Oh, she got one more good thing.

I see. Or I find it really hard to mourn. I'm like, yeah, they're talking about. something that's really hard in their life. You're like, it's not that hard. I mean, that's her problem. Yeah. I mean, you know, I judge them on both counts rather than say, hey, maybe what she's

going through wouldn't be hard for me, but that's exactly what the Lord's using in her life to make her more like Jesus. So can't I mourn with her what's hard in her life? And it just blocks that. That's good. You said something that I think is actually a helpful tool when it comes to us searching our hearts is how where there is some degree of jealousy or envy or covetousness, I think we can trace it to some kind of idol. And I guess for you, I'm going to keep using Scotland as an example,

you wanting an easier way of washing clothes on the surface is not a problematic idea. but how did you identify what the idol was and how did you exchange the idol for faith? Yeah, well, it hit me like a ton of bricks one day. I was actually, maybe I was reading the Bible through in a year or doing something like that. And I came to this verse, do not be like the horse or mule who have to be controlled by bitten bridle or they will not come to you. So I was kind of, I was pretty prideful. I had come to Scotland to support my husband as he was getting his PhD. So I was being the good Christian woman who had done the right thing.

So I had every right to be angry and mad when it was hard. You know, in some ways. And to be quite honest, the person I took it out on most was Mike. And so, you know, and it reminds. I'm sorry, Mike, you made it too. And what causes, fights and quarrels among you? Is it not your desires which battle in you? And I remember just feeling just hit.

It was like the spirit took that verse and just automatically applied it to my life of, yeah, you've come, you've obeyed, but you're like the horse or the mule who's being controlled by bit and bridle. And so you're angry and you're chomping at the bit, so to speak. And so what I really saw was I was really sour. I wasn't joyful in what I was doing. And the Lord had to really confront me with, hey, your inner desire to be in a, to live in a different place and to not be here is robbing you of what is here.

So I was missing this amazing experience. Yeah. Because I was just like, I don't have a car. I got to walk everywhere. Yeah, I mean, you can either grumble about things or you can look around and be like, wow, I get to spend a couple years in this amazing city. And I was definitely choosing the latter, and it made me miserable.

And I'm sure my husband was probably pretty miserable. It was not fun. Yeah. He said, I'm going to just keep working on this paper. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. It gave him a lot of time on his research.

It's easier. This spring, denim gets a softer, lighter update. Introducing Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg, a new fit that moves with you. It's everything you want denim to feel like for summer. easy, breathable, and effortlessly cool. With a fit that creates natural movement and a wide leg that feels modern, not overwhelming. Plus, that signature...

Wait, for this price? Moment. Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg. Hey, y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder, what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if.

Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.ca. Wayfair, every style, every home. I think the thing that we can covet, well, not, I want to say the most, but I think one of the most common things is possessions, particularly money. The Bible says the love of money is the root of all evil. And that's the reason why I love, like in chapter four, your book, you talked about Judas a lot. And you made me look at Judas in ways that I never really looked at before.

And I've read like stories, like when he was in Bethany or whatever. and you know Jesus after you know Mary annoys his body with all Judas gets mad because he's like You could have gave this to the poor And yada yeah he's like no you really just mad Because you love money more than you love Thief you're a thief

You know and I I started to think about that You know and when I think about Judas I love the show the chosen Because I love how they Kind of kind of give color To like what they probably was going through because I think a lot of times we find love and money because we don't trust that God will provide

or we want to just security. It's something that we are not trusting the Lord for that makes us kind of fall in love with money or whatever. So I think I want you to talk about the dangers of like falling in love with money and the temptation to trust in our resources and covet our resources over the Lord. That's great. I think it was Keller.

He had four kind of root idols that he often talked about. Comfort, approval, power. I'm always going to forget the other one. I don't know. This isn't counterfeit gods? Yes, counterfeit gods. And here's the thing, in those four, power, power control, approval, comfort, okay, those four.

I know those four. And in those four, I know, because I always laugh, I'm like, well, between Mike and I, we have all four of them covered. that people tend to go toward one. And here's the thing, money kind of can solve any of those. If you're hungry for power, money's going to give you power. If you like comfort, money's going to give you comfort. If you like approval, guess what everybody always likes the person with money.

I don't remember what it says. I think the Bible says money answers all things somewhere in the scriptures. I forget where. You sound like a proverb. Probably proper. Yeah. And so the reality is a lot of our idols, the root idols, which we all have.

So I might want it for a different reason than you want it. Yes. But we see it as the solution to whatever problem we may have. So it just becomes, you know, it's fascinating, right? There are coins saying, God, we trust. When we as a people in money we trust. Like I find, I mean, it's so easy to be like, oh, I'm okay. We have a 401K.

Oh, yeah. You feel secure. I'm okay. We have, you know, all the, you know, our house is secure or whatever. it's so easy just by being responsible to start slowly trusting in it. Yeah. And I think that's what makes it so dangerous because it's just so easy to be like, I'm safe, not because the Lord's going to take care of me, but because I've got enough resources.

Yeah, I think what's really good is when you were talking about Judas in the book, you were talking about how the scripture says he's a son of destruction, like, you know, and all the things. And you said that, you know, Judas' love of money didn't prevent him. No, no, didn't make him stop believing in God. It prevented him from seeing God as Savior in the first place. And how, like, our love, how he covered money, it can literally make us miss the Lord and not see him for who he truly is.

And I was just like, wow, that's really, really deep to me. Yeah. This weekend, I was, I think last weekend, I was watching, I just been rewatching documentary. I need to send you some of them. I was going to ask. It's like, any good ones? I think you see this one. It's about Madoff.

Have you seen that one on Netflix? I don't know if I've seen that one. You got to watch it. So there is a documentary on Bernie Madoff. Bernie Madoff was... I did see this one. I know you did. Because me and Melissa will talk about documentaries

and we've always watched all of them already. Bernie Madoff was like a so-called Wall Street investor and he basically ended up being exposed as running one of the largest. or the largest Ponzi scheme in history, where he accumulated or, like, basically stole, in essence, $69 billion. It was insane. I mean, ruined people's lives.

Completely, like, because people would invest their money with Madoff, and he was promising these super unrealistic by high returns. I remember you telling me about it. Yeah, and so when he got exposed, they realized because it was a Pondy scheme, he would take money from Melissa and give that money to Preston so there actually wasn't any investments. So you got people that put 100,000, people that put 500,000, people that put their retirement, people that put their kids' education so that when he went to jail, that money is gone.

And what was fascinating to me is that there were a lot of red flags. And I kept thinking about why did people ignore the red flags? And it's because of the returns. You're getting such high returns back. you're getting all of this money back that you start to ignore the red flags because of what it's doing to your pockets. And I was just thinking about how greed

and for many it wasn't even greed it was security, how it kind of messes with our vision a little bit. And I was just like, Lord, so much of this is just idolatry. Yes. Being made manifest in particular ways. Security or greed has...

And that's not everybody. I ain't saying they ain't pray about it and all the stuff, but I am saying that there was a culture of idolatry that led to that. type of dynamic. And so I just think, I don't know, I just added that because I just watched it. One, I think it's, I think it's one of the reasons the Lord invites us to give generously. And some people, you know, really would say to tithe regularly or whatever, I've realized it's a check on

my heart. Yeah, it is. You know, it's actually good for my soul. You know, and we know that. All of the Lord's commands are good for me to do. That's good. And so that act of giving is actually him loosening my grip on what I'm trusting in. You know, we tend to think, oh, how lucky they are I gave. It's actually, no, no, I'm protecting you by asking you to be a generous giver. It's a good discipline for my heart because sometimes, I mean, we'll be down at the beach and I'm looking around and I'm like, who has all the money for all this stuff? You know, because I'm like, how do all these people have boats and houses and all of the stuff?

And, you know, Mike sometimes will be like, well, just think about 10% of all of your earnings. And that's a lot of money. And I'm like, okay, how much better the Lord invites us to an eternal investment that will never spoil, that will never fade? And we have to keep that at the front of our mind. Like being generous in our giving is for our soul not to get to. too focused on this world. That's good. Philippians four,

Paul says, not that I am speaking of being a need, for I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content. I know how to be brought low and I know how to abound in any and every circumstance. I've learned the secret of facing plenty in hunger,

abundance and need. I can do all things through him who strengthens me. Would you say that contentment is really what cuts at the heart of covetousness. If we learn contentment, then we actually will learn how to resist all forms of covetousness.

It's the good fruit of fighting. You know, it's... And this is what I think. Everybody takes that verse, and they're like, I ran a marathon. I can do all things. The Christ who strengthens me. And Paul's writing that about contentment.

That's the highest mountain. Yeah. I mean, you know, back in the day, in the 1600, I mean, the Puritans were always writing about contentment. Because it was the picture of the Christian life. Psalm 1 is basically this image of this tree planted by a stream. Whatever he does prosperes. And who is that man? Oh, he's the man who delights in the law of Lord and on it.

He meditates day and night. You know, and that picture of just abundance. And our problem is in our flesh, we chase abundance. in the stuff. And he's saying, oh, no, no, the abundance is actually having the inner strength so that circumstantially you can have plenty or nothing, and yet you're abounding. That's strength. And then Paul admits, and it's strength he doesn't have.

It's, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. So, so that's that stream from which we're drawing from is Christ. But I love that Paul says he learned it. It didn't descend upon him. I think we think, oh, does this mean as soon as I become a Christian, I'm going to be immediately content and never struggle? No, it's something I learn. And tomorrow my classroom may be different than today's classroom. And that whatever our classroom is, is our life circumstances.

And the Lord is saying, hey, I'm giving you these circumstances today. and I'm going to prove my strength to you in them. And sometimes it means we have to be completely out of our own before we see that. And what's encouraging about that even is considering that Paul names covetousness as the sin that the law revealed in him that showed him that he actually wasn't righteous. And so for covetousness to be the thing he struggled with and for contentment to be the thing that he eventually learned, means that none of us are actually without help and growth. That's so good. Like that the Lord is kind of like that the Lord can actually bring us out

and bring us to a place of a sufficiency in him that is altogether strange. Yeah, yeah. One thing that I also hear saying a lot, especially when you gave the analogy about the husband, is a lot of things that we cover it. We really just want security. We want safety.

But I think the enemy does. He perverts natural desire. like God given desires and makes us kind of, you know, like, but what are some practical tools that we can use to believe and to know that God is actually better, right? Because I think a lot of times it's hard. Yeah, it is right. To not meditate on what you don't have,

to believe that God is withholding something from you. And so for the person saying, I mean, I hear what you're saying, but like how can I, what are some practical tools to remind me? that when I'm struggling, that God is actually better. Yeah, and I feel like our world got a lot bigger. Meaning, you used to look at your neighbor, neighbor's fence, like the grass is greener. Well, now our neighbors are like 3,000 people on Instagram, right? It just got, we can see, oh, look at her house.

That's true. Oh, look at her yard. You know, we have a much bigger garden. That's what Jackie was saying early when we was getting ready. She was like, yeah, Instagram to make it better. Like, you know, skinny people making people who got bigger weight, like want to be small. And you said something along on that. I said you got, you know, skinny people that want to be, like you got vain people, you got skinny people, you got skinny people, you got volumptuous people, you got rich people, you got families, you got singles.

Like, you got the married people covered in the single life. You got the single people covered in the married life. you got it's but it's all it's it really is a replication of Genesis 3 is our eyes are seeing these things that are like really doing something to our hearts and it's harder in this generation because everything that we don't have is so ever before us yes it's just like so it also seems possible yes yes it seems obtainable yes and you get irritated when you actually don't yes I mean because we actually have more than most generations yeah available like we can go turn on a faucet and get water. I'm not walking a mile to a creek or to a well to get

I mean we have things fairly easy. So there's a verse that says turn my eyes from worthless things and give me life in your ways. And I do think there has to be this turning our eyes. And the Lord promises his power will be in us. He says, you know, his divine power has, Oh, it's Peter. Granted to us, all things we need for life and Godliness. And it says, we'll put that passage in this show. No, whatever. But so his power is available.

But I like to describe it like our cell phones. That little thing is powerful, but if it is not plugged in, it does not work. It just becomes a little box that just sits there and can't do anything. And so the creator of our phone created a means by which it receives power. And so the power for us as Christians, the Lord tells us, you know, hey, you have to abide in me. I mean, Jesus, right before he's getting ready to go to the cross and die, the last words he gives his disciples are, abide in me and my words abide in you, and you will bear much fruit. And then at the end of that passage, he says, I have told you these things.

Again, he's getting ready to go to the cross. I've told you these things so that my joy may be in you and my joy may be full. Jesus is getting ready to go, suffer and die, and he cares about their joy. And he says, the way you do it is you have to abide in me and my words abiding you. And he says, apart from me, you can do nothing. You're like a dry withered branch that can do nothing. And so I think so often what we'd spend our time on is chasing the thing we want rather than chasing the contentment we want,

which would actually happen by planting ourselves in the word, spending time with the Lord. You know, it's kind of the answer no one wants to hear. But that's the means by which he says, my power is going to be, you know, unleashed in your life, is to abide in me. That's where you get the nourishment. Yeah, because the crazy thing is, you know, a lot of times a friend was just telling me that I have a friend who he's friends with a lot of rich people. And he was saying they're some of the most unhappiest people ever. And I think a lot of times we think if we obtain possessions, we obtain wealth, we'll be happy. But really our soldiers are going to continue to search and search and search because what we're really searching for is God.

I think that's what the gospel tells us. And so we're just searching for all of these things. We're never going to be fulfilled. And I think that's when people hit the hopelessness role. It's like I've been searching and I'm still not satisfied because, you know, You were created for a person. You were created for a God. And I think when we covered things, it just robs us of what we're really created for.

These things are beautiful, but they're just add-ons. I think that's such a good point, though. It's when someone finally gets to the pinnacle, they often crash and burn. Yeah. I mean, just the most famous people, you think, you finally got all the hits. You finally got all the money you want. Yeah. And then it's not like they're sitting around saying, oh, this is the good life.

It's great. then they turn to drugs or they turn to alcohol. You know, they often go down a path because it still isn't soul-satisfying. It's fascinating to me that when I read that more millionaires and more millionaires commit suicide and poor people, it's people who chase, and I'm not saying every person that's a millionaire chase money, but I'm just saying like a lot of people chase things feeling like they're going to be happy and then when he gets there. And even with the transgender thing, I think a lot of times.

sometimes, you know, people, they covet wanting to be a man or wanted to be a woman. And then when they actually get it, they're still not satisfied because you're actually not finding the one you were created for. That's right. Yeah, it's a lot like, I talk about this often, but probably because it's been, it's ministered to me, it's a lot like Hannah in First Samuel, you know, like she is really grieved and sad and vexed because she doesn't have a child. and I'm not saying she coveted a child.

I'm not saying that at all. But what I am saying is that for her to go into that temple, petition the Lord for the child, and then immediately make a vow to give that child back, has to communicate that she is satisfied in the Lord in such a way, that she is willing to give away what she always wanted. And I think that is ultimately what even the exposure of covetousness should produce in us

is a dependence and an intimacy and a trust in God's sufficiency that allows us to hold all the good gifts really loosely. And I think in my own life, I think the frustration is that you, I think sometimes I would rather be able to take a scalpel, go in here and just cut that thing out. You know what I'm saying? Because we're talking about desires. We're talking about feelings.

Like, I can go work out and get some muscle. I can, you know, wash my car to make it feel a little more important. I can do certain, but I can't change my heart. heart. And so it puts us in this position where the mountain will only be moved if God strengthens us to move it, which circles back to your point, which is abiding feels like an unpractical practice, but it's actually the only way to change. It's the only way to change. I have a question for both of y'all. When it comes to challenging our hearts, right, to not covered out the things, not just possessions, but relationships, whatever, how much of it

is our perspective and how we see things. Because I think, because I do think that at the root of our faith problem is a sight problem. We don't have faith because we don't see. And it's not that we don't necessarily see, we just don't see properly. And so like how much of it is, like, and I know God changes our perspective, but I think it can also be very practical as well. And so what are some tools and some muscles that we can kind of build up to help change our perspectives to help us see? Does it make sense what I'm saying?

Yes, because I mean the invitation, you know, when you go back to Isaiah 55, he says, come, come to the waters, you who have no money. But then the question is, why are you spending your money on what is not bread and your life on what will not satisfy? Yeah. And so there's this perception problem. Yeah. think you're going to eat that and it's bread and it's not actually going to fulfill you. That's really good. You know, and I think one of the biggest ways is the act of Thanksgiving.

You know, pray without, see, what's the verse? Some prayer and subjugation with thanks to you. It's first Thessalonians. I don't know that. Be thankful. Rejoice always. That's it. Rejoice always.

Rejoice always. Again, I say rejoice. And I don't know. Rejoice always. I don't know what you see. Philippians for. We can go to it. Rejoice always.

But it's in your heart. Everything should be received with Thanksgiving if it's done with prayer. Ooh, y'all are just. Rejoice always pray without, you know, give thanks in all circumstances for this is Christ's will for you. And Christ. We need to do. I'm bad. I need some sword drills.

I don't know. I don't know what scripture she's referring. It's Philippine for. Rejoice on the Lord always. Again, I would say rejoice. Let your reasonable. be known to everyone the Lord is at him, do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by praying and supplication with Thanksgiving.

See, that's how bad I bettry. I think it's first Thessalonians 5. It is first Thessalonians 5. That's how bad this is like, what's that game they used to play in? I never played it. What the young people play in care? Like they do the, like Bible trivism. Yes. And I'm butchering.

It's first. Thessalonius 5. And keep this in. I want people to see us searching God's work. Oh, goodness. 18. Yes. We got to look better than this.

to know that it ain't it. It says, give thanks for all circumstances, for this is the will of God in Christ and Jesus. Do not quench the spirit, do not despise prophecies, but test everything, hold fast to what is good. Just let that be it. Just go ahead. It's somewhere in the Bible. It's in the scriptures.

Yes. Because it's his will for us. You know, like that, like to actually the, I do think the act of giving thanks and choosing, it turns our eyes on to what we've been given rather than what we're missing. And, you know, to say, Lord, even as I wait on this thing, I thank you for, you know, that I have food today to eat. I thank you that I have these kids who I might need a break from, but I thank you for them, you know. to really spend time because what it does, then it is reminding me of what I do have. Yeah.

And I think what coveting does is it blinds us to what we have and it makes us hyper-focused on what we don't have. And I want to say this too. I honestly, because I've thought about this in my own life, my fathering, marriage and everything. Because I've always talked to people like my dad. I think it blinds us with what we do have and it makes us focus on what other people have.

But I think a tactic from the enemy is to shame us in the future of what we missed out on. Because my dad used to always say, so me and my dad had a hard relationship. And when I got connected back with my dad, my dad, he just wanted to live his life. He was like, you know, I love my kids, but I want to do this and want to do that. And as we got older, he really wanted that relationship with me that he didn't, that he didn't cultivate, that he didn't foster. and I think my rejection of him was shame for what he neglected. And I think, you know, all of the people that he chased, you know, all the relationships that he chased, all the, like, the life that he coveted, like, it didn't really give

him anything in return. And the life that he wanted now as an older man, he just didn't have it because he didn't, he didn't put it where it needed to be. And I think that brought my dad a lot of shame to say, man, it reminds me. reminded him of all the things that he neglected when he was younger. And I think the enemy wants us to be shamed, shamed. You know, it's not, it's not going to be rewarded in the future if we covet certain things in the present. And so I think just remembering that.

Yeah, that's good. And it just shows it's Satan's tool to destroy us. Yes. It's not, you know, he wants to steal, kill, and destroy the Christian. Yeah. He's not playing nice. Yeah, that's right. And so you think, you know, you think, oh, so he's going to get me trapped in a big sin.

Well, how does he do that? It starts with coveting. It starts with an inner desire that then takes life. That's good. Yeah. That's good. I started thinking way more about thankfulness a couple months ago, and I was just listening to some Ann Voskamp content.

What's the name of her book? a thousand gifts. It's good. And one thing I realized is that when you start to try to train your heart to be thankful, you realize how everything is actually a grace. Because things, it's like you start to see all the miracles. And it's a grace because you realize you don't actually deserve it. Thank you, Lord, for this bed.

I was a sinner. I don't deserve a comfortable rest. or thank you, God, that I got to work in my car didn't crash because people's cars are crashing all the time. Like, there's actually so many things. And I think that's the thing about what happened in the garden is that God was so profoundly generous. But them being distracted by this one tree that they could not have actually kept them from seeing all the things that they should be thankful for. And I think the same thing is happening today where you don't realize that that conversation you had. Like when you laughed, that was a grace.

You know what I'm saying? Like the Lord just, the Lord created this weird noise that comes out of your body so that you can have joy. So when you scrolled up and you had a laugh, that was a grace. Thank you. You know what I'm saying? Like you become a little more creative, even in the things that you could be thankful for all by practicing thankfulness.

So I don't know. That's just been a really interesting thing for me to discover. For me, it's just pausing and just like, because sometimes my kids can get on my nerve. Oh, yeah. They can really get on my nerve and then just in, like, pausing. Y'all are in it. I mean, y'all are in it. Yeah.

And just like, and like, just literally pausing, meditating on the goodness of them. And God's blessing me with my children. And it's like, not only do I, not only do I feel thankful, but then you start to realize, oh, I actually enjoy you. Like, I enjoy my children when I'm just so not wrapped up in. the inconvenience of them. The inconvenience and everything that I'm coveting, right? Like, it's just little things. I found myself doing that.

It's just like, okay. Yeah, like, I hate going to bed at night because I'm a night out. I'm like, I love the way my wife smells. I'm like, Lord, thank. Like, so she is. I'm talking about the kids. I'm just thinking about everything. Okay, she'll tell you this.

I have this thing with like smells. Right. And like, I just, I'll be, sometimes. I get into bed at night and I'm like, I love the way our bed smells because she just smells so good. Praise God. One thing I'm never going to be a stinky. She smells so good. It's like, hey, this is a gift.

I love that. It's a gift. I love that you love that. It makes me sleep better. Praise God. I tell her mom at a hotel I can't sleep because I can't smell her. Oh, should I get your kerchief with my sense on it or something? I think you could just get.

send in with a pillowcase. Apparently. I know. I get excited when you take showers. But sometimes taking the time to be thankful. Thank you, for something small like that, remind you of how much you love the person, whereas I'm sure as you go through the day,

sometimes it's easier to think of the things that are annoying you. Like in our spot, oh. You know, that got left. Like I am a constant cabinet opener. Like I leave them open. And my poor husband has to come behind me. me and shut all the cabinets. It's the reverse with us.

Okay, you know, and so, you know, you could sit there and be like, if this person wasn't in my house, my house would stay cleaner all the time or whatever. You know, I mean, it's easy to complain. Yeah. And so rather than to remember and be thankful. That's amazing, yeah. What just came to my mind is, is most likely more for me than anybody else. But I got you.

It's when Peter, it might be second. Peter, when he tells us to rejoice when we are faced with trials. I cannot find it. Yes, in this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials so that the tested genuineness of your faith, more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. I'm just saying out loud, I think there can be, for me, in this season, there's been a covetousness of ease of just wanting a break from trials, from the Lord's discipline, from the pruning, is just like, yeah, I just remember time my life where just Christianity wasn't his heart. And it's like,

I get it, you want me to mature, but can we chill for a second? You know what I'm saying? But I think it makes sense why Peter is saying that you can rejoice because what is actually happening is that God is purifying you and changing you. And ain't that what you always asks for? Can God make me like you? God, I want to know you. God, I want to see you. God don't want to honor you. And he's answering your prayer just not in a way that you would have preferred or expected. But I think having our minds on what God is doing in the lack and what God is doing in the discipline and what God is doing in the trials actually allows us to praise him and rejoice in it. I'm more so talking to me than I am to anybody else. I just had to say that out loud. Because so, because covetousness is not just

stuff. It could be seasons. Yeah. And that, the season y'all are in with young kids. I mean, I just remember deeply desiring just to go to the bathroom by myself and just shut the door and just have a moment of quiet. Like it's, it's so hard. I was, when you were reading that verse, I was reminded of the verses. It's like you will have much need of endurance. And I think I think I, and I'm going to say this, and I want to explain what I'm saying, I think I suddenly buy into a prosperity gospel sometimes. And what I mean by that is not, I would say a functional prosperity gospel. I'm like, well, it just should be easy.

You know, and when it gets hard, I start thinking, what am I doing wrong? That's my first question. what am I doing wrong? Rather than, oh, yeah, the Christian life is described as a race, a battle, and childbirth. Yeah, it is. Hard. Hard. But they're all hopeful.

And I think that's the thing. Every one of those things, yeah, you fight a battle hoping for peacetime. You know, you run a race hoping for the finish line. And childbirth is the hope of new life. And so, yeah, they're hard, but they're not run in vain. I mean, they're not labored in vain. You know, it's like a hopeful thing. And so the thing for me about this whole sin and even concentrating on what has changed for me in the years since I even started thinking about it was I used to think the problem was my circumstances.

I can't battle that actually. I can't control what happens tomorrow. Everything about my life could change tomorrow. I don't know anything. But what I can control is I can choose. to know the Lord, to abide. He invites me to do that. So those things, I can beg him to change my heart

for whatever I face. Will you strengthen me for what tomorrow brings? That's what we can do. And so I would spend a lot of energy in the wrong place. This is actually very convicting for me because I didn't tell you this, but a couple days ago I just ministered in Chicago, my hometown, where we moved from.

And I rolled past our old apartment at High Park. And I was just, I traveled with one of my young guys, and I was just telling him, just kind of ranting about how easy our life was. We had one child. What we thought was hard wasn't hard. Yeah. But it was way easier than.

Significantly. You know, one child, we didn't have as much slander on social media. I mean, you know, we have more businesses, so it's more responsibility, all of the things. But I think everything that the Lord is bringing us to, like in five years, I want to have so much probably to give to the world because of what he's allowing me to go through. through now.

And I think I've got to just think about that. Because I've been thinking about that the last couple of days. I'm like, man, that one child life. Covered in that season. Covered in that season. But I'll end with it. I was reading, I think I said this in another podcast, this Elizabeth Elliott book, where she was talking about her widowhood, the second one, because her first husband

was a missionary that was killed, and then her second husband died from cancer. And so she's been widowed twice. And she said, what she learned. in her second widowhood that was different than the first, was that it was her assignment, where she was like what brought her contentment. It doesn't mean she didn't grieve, but she realized that the place that she was in

was the assignment for her. And so I think that also is the word. It's like God's providence is something that we have to trust, especially when we understand that he's not just sovereign. He has purpose with all that he allows, and that purpose is always for our good. The place in which we are in, we are in Atlanta, you are in Charlotte, we have four kids, you have three that are out and about doing their thing.

We all have our different burdens, our different cares, our different issues, but that place is the assignment. And so I think us finding God in it is what he's called us to do. Way to bring it home, pretty face. That's so good. The envy of Eve, we're going to have this book in the show notes. She wrote this thing a decade ago, but run them numbers up because you all need to do some Bible studies, I don't care you, a man or a dog. It might be saying about E, but I think every human

being and animal needs it. No, real talk is a good book. No, it's excellent. Bye it. If you don't, you're lame. So thank you. Thank you, Melissa. I love you. Thank you for doing the work. Writing all this down. We also did it Ephesians Bible study. We might as well quit that in the show notes too that y'all can check out and all the things. So appreciate you. It's been here. Peace. Bye, y'all. With the Perrys is produced by the Perrys with support from Amanda Reed and Channing McBride. Video recording and audio production by Matthew Baxter and Xavier Fairley.

Edited by the team at Tread Libely. Artwork by Hobb. Thank you for listening. Now go with God. Are you one of those media strategy people clicking through slides, scrolling spreadsheets? Yes? Good. This is for you.

Because on Spotify, there's an audience that's different. Locked in. Loyal, invested. They're called fans. Fans don't just listen to music. They feel seen by it like it belongs to them. So when your brand shows up on Spotify, that's who you're talking to. And you're right next to artists like me, Lizzo.

So, are you ready to talk to fans? Spotify Advertising, you're among fans.