With The Perrys - Parenting Children with Special Needs and More with Megan Ashley

Episode Date: October 14, 2024

Megan Ashley joins the Perrys to talk about her upbringing, faith journey, and hardships of the past several years. As a mom to a child with autism, Megan believes the church should step in to support families, and she’s advocating for churches to become more conscious of special needs. Jackie, Preston and Megan Ashley also talk about the dichotomy of darkness and beauty in their city of Atlanta, discussing the hope and expectation they have for what comes of this month’s Acts 242 discipleship conference. Follow Megan Ashley on Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/immeganashley/ Check out her podcast, In Totality – https://www.themeganashley.com/podcast Subscribe to the Perrys' newsletter: https://withtheperrys.myflodesk.com/zhfus4jx1s Join Preston's discipleship community for men: https://www.patreon.com/PrestonPerry/membership To support the work of the Perrys, donate via PayPal: https://paypal.me/withtheperrys Shop BOLD Apparel: boldapparel.shop Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi guys. How are you? Hope you're blessed. Hope you're happy. What it is. I hope you're moisturized. I hope you brushed your teeth. I hope you took a bath. Hopefully with a with a washcloth. But if you wanted to use your hands, that's between you and the Lord. Hope you put deodorant on. I think people starting, like people who listen to this podcast, I think they like use washcloths now. You know, I've gotten a couple gifts with washcloths in it. I was like, y'all giving them to me. You could have kept it at your house. I have them. I don't need them as it as a kid.

But if you want to use your hand, if you want to stick your hand in the crack and get it out that way, go ahead, by all means, just make sure you wash it thoroughly, get under the nails, because you might have some boo-boo particles. That's disgusting. That's absolutely trifling. It's absolutely nasty. You know, I feel like I get boo-boo on my hands often. Oh, wait a minute.

No, you cannot say that on the podcast. It's not my boo-boo. It's our children. I was for to say. What I look like? I'm a grown-up. Because I'm going to say, you don't get no boo-boo on your hands. Because you use so much tissue.

You know, that's actually like a thing in our marriage. You should tell people. Yes. It bothers me so much that she uses half a row when she's boo-boos. It's like, why is so much tissue? I want to make sure what is clean. It's like, babe. I just want to make sure.

I get it. Because that's so nasty to me if I like, don't. like sufficiently. You have to learn how to fold. But that's like, that's too much maneuvering. No. Because like, what if the boob will get on you in the fold? Look, it's all.

When you fold, the boob will touch your finger. It's all in the wrist action. You got to, you got to, you got to look because I'll be like, babe, this is like giving Eden. This is giving autumn. I actually think it's just because our toilets aren't strong enough. I think if we buy more expensive toilets, then I can wipe, I can do whatever I want to do.

You know what I'm saying? Like, it's the toilet. She bled on toilets. We got Megan Ashley in the room. Hi. What up, Megan? Hi. Y'all might know her.

She does, like, in totality, and she got braids and great eyebrows. First thing, first. Show me your grandma Bible. That book is. Is that the Tony Evans one? Yeah. Listen, Jackie has, like, a really small Bible that she, you know, preach when she goes and does stuff. I can't see that well.

This is, like, a big thing. The words are tiny. Yeah, I can't see. That Bible is like you fried chicken. Is that your favorite Bible? Yes, I need help. It has the commentary. I need help.

Why is that your favorite Bible? Because you got a lot of Bibles, but you'd be using that one also. The other Bible I have is actually a Bible that you got me, and it's an ESV, like, commentary, big, thick. I can't carry that around. It's heavier. It's heavier and thicker. We use. Oh, okay.

So this one I love because it has the commentary. Like, it has commentary in it. I love it. My favorite Bible. I'm never getting rid of it. I feel like that introduction was trash, but I mean. That's okay. They get it.

They know who you are. It's like, hey. Me and my Bible. Yeah. You all here. You got a question? Because I got a lot of them. So tell us who you are.

Oh, my gosh. Who is Megan? We know Megan Ashley, you know, the podcaster, the people, rebuking people online and all that. I do not be rebuking people in the nicest tone. I'm like, I've never heard somebody rebuking somebody in such a nice tone. Is it nice? Yeah. She don't really, she don't have like a, she don't have a mean voice. I can, but I try to be gentle. I like, I try to be mindful because when I get passionate,

it can come across like you're angry and I don't want to. You think she had a mean voice? I feel like when you rebuke, it's mean. I feel like when she rebuk, it's like, oh, you, you feel what you feel, but it's still like, oh, she's a nice person. I think what softens the blow of Megan's rebukes is that she phrases it in a question. So it's like, He's God. Shouldn't he get all of us? So it's like a, it's a question so it don't feel as. Yeah, because you're coming to your own conclusion.

Yeah, Jackie just be coming for throats. Oh. I don't feel like you rebuke that much. I feel like, I mean, you do. In my sermons. Yeah, but not like, it's not like mean. It's just direct. Yeah, it's not mean.

It can come off me. Mean is screaming at people on a platform for 20 minutes and telling them that. you know, they're going to hell. Yeah, it is, man. That was a lot of self-control. But I guess a more detailed question is, you know, your podcast just, I feel like it just kind of blew up, like, overnight, you know, and, like, you're known for, like, putting

out really great content, having really great guests, you know, speaking truth or whatever. But, like, did you grow up in the church? Like, how did you get here? Like, what is your faith journey? Yeah, I think people, I think with the podcast, like, it blew up because I was part of another podcast that was extremely popular, kind of in the secular world. And so the split of that podcast, I think obviously garnered a lot of attention. And so when I felt released from the Lord to start my podcast, I think that already helped

have, you know, exposure of it. Yeah, yeah. But prior to, you know, podcasting and being on social media and all that stuff, I lived in Columbus, Ohio. I was raised by my mom. single parent. I have four sisters that are my dad's children

and we weren't raised together. So I kind of grew up the only child. My mom had me in church since the moment she found out she was pregnant with me. She was in church for, like she tells me that when she

found out she was pregnant with me, she knew she needed the Lord's help. And so she felt like I have to, she felt like she had to dedicated her life to the Lord in order to be a good mom in order to actually be able to have me. Because I think that there might have been some, you know, some fear with her because her and my dad just had a toxic relationship. And so when she found out she was pregnant with me, she left my dad. And I think there could have been a temptation to abort me. But instead she decided to just

lean into the Lord. And like she really dedicated her life to him. Like I was in church all the time. because she was in church all the time. Was your dad a believer? No. Oh, okay. Well, like, you know, kind of, but. Columbus sounds boring. Was it like, was it like boring growing up?

Like, what did you? No. When I think Ohio. You think Hornfields? I think, I don't think a sunshine. Really? Every time I'm like, it was gloomy to me. You know what I'm saying?

It can be. The weather is like very bipolar. Yeah, it's Midwest. Yeah, it's the Midwest. It's like the fall and the winter are very gray. All from the Midwest. I just realized that. Yeah.

Midwest East. It's just, yeah, like the winter and fall in winter can be like super gray. I'm from the best place in the middlewomen. You are. Yeah. You're from a very cool city. You're from a pretty trash place. Just keep on.

I love Columbus. Clearly you're throwing it so stupid. I've been in Atlanta. I appreciate Columbus so much more. Why? Because of the simplicity of life. Like, there is a little pretentiousness in Columbus people. But, like, people are just like, do you?

Normal. Yeah, normal. I think that's the thing. I think it's like normal. Living in Atlanta, I feel like I'm on a... Yeah, I feel like I'm on a set every day. Yeah. So it's just different.

What is like, I guess the culture, like religious culture in Columbus? And did you see that, like, growing up or was it not a thing? Yeah, I feel like people are very, like, in Columbus, everybody's kind of family-oriented. Like, they're very kind of like blue-collar, white-collar people. They're not... even though we have a very, there is a small niche, artistic part of Columbus,

but it's very small. But mostly people are just like nine to fivers. Yeah. Go to church on Sunday. Bible study on Wednesday. Soccer games on Saturday. Like it was just a very normal, you know, white picket fits type of environment.

Yeah, I got a question. So you said that you came from like a secular, you know, podcast or whatever. Like, can you talk about your faith journey when it came to that, like, how did you end up here? Can I ask a different question? What? You can answer it?

Can I add a caveat on that? Okay, okay, go, go. No, ask it. And then I'm going to just add a thing on top of it. Yeah, yeah, because I don't want to assume that everybody knows about the platform that you were on previously. You know what I'm saying? And so, like, talk about, like, how did you, like, what kind of environment you were in? And how did you get to, like, Megan Ashley, like, the person that we know,

speaking truth, giving the gospel? So I was part of another podcast with someone I was friends with for a very long time. And our podcast was centered around, you know, friendship, our friendship, our journey through life. And 2021 was a really rough year for me, like really bad. Like I was in a very, very just bad place. I've struggled with suicide since I was 14. struggle with mental health stuff, depression, anxiety. In 2019, I was diagnosed with bipolar depression.

And so getting that diagnosis, even though it was devastating, it was also very helpful because I feel like it brought a lot of sense to or a lot of clarity to how I've been feeling most of my life. And so anyway, in 2021, I had a really bad, like, bad depression. I went through a really bad depression, like really bad. And all of this was while I was on the podcast. Like we had started a podcast and I was just not in a good space. And 2022, I filed for divorce for my husband of 13 years.

And our divorce was finalized 2023. That same month that I moved into my house, my friendship ended with the person I had the podcast with. So all of that happened at the same time, like the same month. And how I got to this place of like full surrenderance to the Lord was I was outside on my porch and I was just, you know, having a really rough time. I felt like I was like about to have a panic attack because it felt like all the weight of everything finally hit me. Like, okay, this is happening. My life is, you know, it just felt very unpredictable. It felt very like unstable.

and scary. And so I just remember being on the porch and like feeling like like weight on my chest. Like it felt like like a ton of bricks just like weight and heavy. And I felt like I couldn't breathe. And I just remember crying out to the Lord like sincerely being like help me. Like I need help. And he was just kind. Like I think that was the thing that changed everything is that although I knew I had made

so many mistakes leading up to that point and probably contributed to why I was feeling so hurt and why I was feeling like I was suffering. He wasn't like he didn't say, see, told you, that's what you get. Like he was just merciful and kind, but he was honest with me too. And he didn't set me up for like unrealistic expectations. Like he was like, I'm going to need all of you. And that like, I'm going to be with you. I'm going to walk you through this. It's not going to be easy. You're going to feel some pain, but I'm going to be with you. And I just need you to be obedient to me. And I need all of you.

Like, I can't have just one part anymore in order to walk through this and be free from a lot of stuff. Like, I need all of you. And I remember there was something that I felt in my heart where I, where it wasn't just a yes with my, with my lips, but I could feel that my heart had said yes. Like, I had fully said yes in that moment. And then that pressure released. And I went to bed that night and I slept.

And ever since then, I was like, I'm going to fully dedicate myself to God. From that day to probably about the end of August, I probably spent every day in my office praying and spending time with the Lord for like three or four hours every day. That's powerful. Yeah. I feel like a lot of people have moments where God is asking for everything, but they're not ready to say yes yet. Yeah. So where there are moments even up until then, even when you was 12, 13, 14, 15, where the Lord also was requiring that. But she was like, no, I'm straight.

So growing up, because my mom had me in church my whole life, I've always had a life with God to an extent. Like, I was the kid that loved being at church. I couldn't wait to get to church. I couldn't wait to do Bible study. I couldn't wait to be, you know, like in the youth groups and do, like, I just loved being at church. And because I was the only child, I spent a lot of alone time. So I just always had someone to talk to. I always had God to talk to.

I wrote a lot when I was a kid and write to God and write out my prayers and stuff like that. It wasn't probably until I was about teenager where I wasn't like committed to God. What happened? I think I, like, I think I got saved when I was nine or ten where, like, I made my open confession and I got baptized at, like, 12. But when I became a teenager, you start whaling out. I started whaling out. It always happened. We all start wild.

I feel like I, I feel like I wild out. I'm not giving myself an excuse, but I feel like I wild out within good reason because my mother remarried. So I had a stepfather. She was divorcing my stepfather at the same time. my stepmother was divorcing my dad. So at two, both sets of my parents were divorcing within like a month or two of each other. And with my mom and my stepdad, like, it was more traumatic because where my dad was kind of absent, my stepdad became my dad.

So, like, I would call him dad. Like, he was at my dance recitals and dance competitions and dance practices and parent meet, like he was my dad. I didn't see him as any less. Like, I didn't see him as my stepfather. And the day that my mother picked me up from my grandmother's house and told me that she and my stepdad were getting a divorce,

she told me that he had been abusing her since the day they got married. Wow. So since their honeymoon. How long were they together? The guy you start calling. I called my father. Wow.

How long were they together? They were together, I want to say, maybe like six years, six or seven years. So from 12 to 17? I don't know. They were married like a couple years after. Obviously the divorce took a while. But yeah, it was a long time.

And so why did the while and I start? Is it because both of your kind of father figures kind of let you down and disappointed you? I think with my dad, it was kind of like I was already used to his absence and his, inconsistencies. But when with my stepdad, I'm like, like, you promised, like, I thought you were going to be different. You know, you said, you're a man of God. He was, you know, he preached. He did all the things. He did all the things. He had, he had one of the number one radio,

Christian radio shows in Christian radio. Like, he was very popular in the gospel world. And, yeah, like, I expected different. And he disciplined. pointed me and then obviously with my dad, I wasn't really so shook up about their divorce as much as I was about my mom. But I think them going through that, there wasn't enough attention about how it was affecting me. It was just they were going through it. And I get it. Like, I'm human. I get it. And I've gone through my own stuff, so I get it. But I just don't think that there was a lot of attention on how it was affecting me at 16 years old when my hormones and my mind is just crazy. You know, I had this undiagnosed thing of bipolar depression that we didn't know I had at

that age, but that was still happening. So I have this chemical imbalance. I'm 16. I'm going through hormonal changes and nobody's paying attention. What do you think you needed? Like, what would that have actually looked like? I think I needed, um, I don't know. Like, are you okay? Yeah. I think I assembled like, are you, are you well? I was just about to say that like acknowledge you know because it's even triggering you know uh to me to hear this because I was like you know I've literally had arguments and I know they wouldn't mind me saying this but my mom and my dad but like y'all didn't check on us when y'all got divorced yeah y'all didn't say yeah how do you feel about this yeah you know what I'm saying we didn't even get that you know

I'm saying anybody trying to worry about why I'm bad I miss my dad that's why my home is broken bucko I'm not bad I'm hurt my home that's why I'm stealing on people my home is Jammolds. I'm hurt, Bucco. I need a father. Do you think that there was the possibility that how they treated you, you felt like the Lord was treating you the same way? Yeah, because I felt like, I felt like, you know, especially for my mom, I think I was just

more angry for her. Because the way the church treated my mom, because her and my dad, my stepdad were ministers at our church. They were prominent leaders. Like, we were there at 5 a.m. them setting up before church and cleaning up on Saturdays. And they're at five on Wednesday. Like my mom was that go, like she was a ride or die go-to person.

If the church ever needed anything, it was her to do it. Right. And not only that, but you're ministering and discipling. So she was doing all the things while she was working a full-time job, while my stepdad didn't have a job and was like he wasn't providing in a way. You know, so she was doing all the things. And when that happened, they literally bring my mom up to the church. So my mom tells my, it's fine.

Oh, I'm like, she got to announce it. Like, she got to like, work. But she has to announce it to everybody? They didn't, okay, I'm going to tell you what happens. Because I'm like, what? What happens? So my mom goes to, my mom decides she's going to divorce my stepdad. She goes to the pastors.

And she says, you know, I believe that the Lord is releasing me from being at the church. I believe the Lord is telling me to go somewhere else. And so the pastor was really upset and he didn't want her to leave. And he felt away. He didn't want her to leave. And so they, the following Sunday, they call my mom and my stepdad up in front of the church. And they said, he goes, they're divorcing and she's leaving. And that was it.

They're divorcing and she's leaving. And like kind of villainized her, like made her. In front of the whole church. front of the whole church. Was you there? You was there? I was not there that Sunday. That's the obolical.

Yeah, it was just really... It's not demure. It's like what? It was really mean. And so people started to treat her really badly. But people that she had loved and ministered to

and disciples, rejected her and was mean. And, you know, they kind of looked at him as he was the sad puppy and she was leaving him. But y'all don't know that he's been torturing her

for the last. last five years, like mentally and emotionally torturing her. Yeah. And so when all of that happened, I think I was just frustrated with God because I'm like, where are you? I've watched her serve you my entire life. I've watched her dedicate everything to you. Why are you letting this happen to her?

And so I think that mixed with the idea that your first representation of love really does come from your parents, whether they're in your life or not. I think, especially that father feels. figure, I feel like that mixed in with how I felt like my dad just, I just was never important enough to him to be around. And I think that started to cultivate and it shifted how I looked at God. So I looked at him no longer as some like loving father, but I was like, oh, I'm just here to serve you. Like, I'm not here to commune with you or have a relationship. Yeah, it was crazy. Who was just talking about this in the last podcast?

And Jackie asked me, like, why do I think the enemy, like, attacks marriage so much and tries to get people to divorce? And it's like, because if, you know, if the marriage is to pitch up the gospel, how much would divorce teach us wrong things about the character of God, the nature of God, his relationship with his church? And the enemy was just trying to, you know, get you to stay where you were at, like, wild and out. But God had a plan for your life. Yeah. Which is dope. That year, I lost my virginity. Like it was crazy.

Like I lost my Virginia. I was introduced to weed. I was just like drinking, like crazy stuff. Like I was whaling out. Because what's deep is like the devil, I do think he plays with our minds and feeds us lies. But then he feeds us opportunities to walk in those lies. You know what I'm saying? So like these random friendships that you just didn't have before, you know what I'm saying?

You get offered certain things that you just wasn't offering. before and it's like oh yeah give me that joint I feel like y'all smoked joints in Columbus oh my gosh no you smoked blunt oh you did in Columbus I just said joint what this ain't 1992 with papers you know what Swishers I never smoked paper she said swishers

because they burn kind of quick don't they yeah they do I probably shouldn't talk about this yeah yeah well how do you know Jackie how do you know that I never smoked before I just seen it I just said a little I used to steal my auntie joints They hold it with the little things. And just get enough weed to make a whole blunt

and we just make a blunt out of her joints. That's a broke blunt. Yeah, we was like 12. He's up my roaches. No, like her little white joints because she was smoked a little bit and she just saved them. Oh, that's great.

And so she's to have a whole bunch of her and we just, you know, rolling. Don't know how we got there. So at what point? How did you go from, you know, I hate you God, like that? What was it? I hate you.

Why actually make you sound like your name was Katie. Because I'm from Columbus. And Megan grew up around Caucasians. Yeah, I did. You did? I was in elementary. I was the only black girl in my school. Are you serious?

Because you seem like a black girl. I mean, that sounded wrong. You seem culturally, you don't give... I don't give... No. You're like he was in a gang. What? Might have been.

Might have been. Ain't you? Like, I just feel like that. Do it again? No. How you go from that to leading a praise dance team? Oh, my gosh. Like, because at some point, you led a praise dance thing?

I did. Can you demonstrate? No, I cannot. Can't come on. It is one. Because the way I showed Jackie. Just do it one time. You got to give us some flags?

I showed Jackie. I was in Bible college. Hold on. Hold on. When I. I say that video was one of the funniest things I've probably seen in the last seven months. Y'all ain't going to find it. You're not going to find it.

You did the dove hands. You did the little dove hands? I can't stand either one of y'all. And you want to know what? I was so vulnerable to show Jackie a part of my history. A part of my history. When I say I turned around and she had tears coming down her face. You think that it was like something funny happened.

It was my hair. She was laughing at my hair. She had tracks. But it was like different color tracks. It's like what you see here is not the same person that was dancing. And I think that's what through me. I get you grace. It was the tracks.

Oh, you was 18? That's no grace. And then they was like speaking. I thought you're going to say 12. They were 18 with different color tracks? They were like, I had red in my hair. It wasn't like a crazy color. That track was lifted.

Oh. You was 18 with a lifted track. It wasn't layered right. Anyway, how you... I can't stand you. I got to get serious. How did you... Because that's a real question.

How do you go from where you were in high school to eventually leading a ministry at a church? There had to be some decision that you made that maybe you're worth this, at least. So when I graduated from high school, I was just an average student. Like, I wasn't, like, super, like, exceptional at school. Like, I was seized, and I always gave, like, the bare.

their minimum effort. I probably could have been a lot more than I was. Yeah, I could have been more studious, but I just didn't care for obvious reason. And so with my grades and just attention span and lack of care about really anything in life, I didn't want to go to college. But because my mom kept me in church,

even though we were going through all the things, we were still in church, and the new church that we were going to, it was an opportunity for me to go to Bible college. And so I went to Bible college. And this was not accredited school. It was janky in a lot of ways. But because I was going to the church, I knew a lot of the people.

So it felt like an easier transition for me to go to Bible college. Go to Bible college, I'm a part of the dance team at Bible college. Once I, okay, so I was in Bible college for a year, the summer that, my first year was over, me and my long-term boyfriend broke up and it was very dramatic and it was like a thing. And that month, like a month later, I met my ex-husband and I got pregnant in the summer. You're skipping the praise dance story. No, I am skipping the praise dance story because it's not necessary. You see how she just the necessary.

The praise dance story isn't necessary. But what I'm saying is the reason why I got to lead that same dance team is because I was a part of. of that dance team when I was in Bible college. And so when there was a vacancy and leadership for it, they asked me to be over it. And this was like years I was like 20, maybe 24. So you would listen?

I can't see. She's like. You would like listen to songs and like choreograph it. And then you would teach it. I did. And so you so. I did. Those videos. So you So you are you against a demonstrators on the camera?

Well, yes. I am against it. But can I just say I was dancing my entire life since I was a little girl. So I was like I was in the nutcracker. Like I was on a competition dancing. So I was always like I didn't come out of nowhere to start dancing. But I always danced my entire life. So if I'm being serious, I do think that that when I hear you say I was doing like I was leading the team,

what I hear is God giving you opportunities to lead. You know what I'm saying? Like where it's like you haven't just become a leader in the last year. You've been a leader. And so, like, did you always see yourself as that? Or are you now stepping into the fact that that's something that Delor has called you to? And do you consider yourself a leader now? Because I know it's...

Not now. I probably... Like, I have a hard time with what... I got a feeling you did, but you know you are right. My little cousins be listening to you all the time. They'd be like, I love Megan Ashley. I'm like, you're a leader. Definitely are.

When I was... I'll just say this. Like, when I was little, like, growing up in the church that I grew up in when I was younger, I was always, like, anytime there was a vacancy with the little kids, I was always like, I'll do it. Like, I'll watch them or, and I would just, like, they would walk into a room and I would have all these little kids quiet and raising their hand and like, all right, guys, we're getting ready to, like, I just always was able to, I don't know, I had that in me since I was little.

I don't know if anybody ever pointed that out in me and said, you're a leader. Yeah. But I think those leadership qualities had already been there. And so having the opportunity to be over the dance team at the Bible college that I used to go at, it was just it felt like a natural fit. But I don't think I ever looked at it as like you're a leader. Like I don't think I looked at it in that way. But I did take the position like very seriously.

Like I did not play around when I was over a team. Yeah. Like I wouldn't drink. not even a glass of wine, nothing. Like, nothing. I was very, I don't know, I was just not fearful in, like, a bad way, but I was like, I'm responsible for these kids. And so I just felt, I don't know, I just took it really serious.

Yeah. And when you got pregnant with Eli, was that helpful to your relationship with the Lord? No. Or did you feel shame? It was terrible. Well, it was, I don't know. And let me give context. Yeah.

So you got pregnant with Eli in by, Bible college. That's why I'm connecting it. In the summer, when we were on summer break. Yes. With the man that you eventually ended up marrying. Correct. Yeah, sure. So when I got pregnant with Eli, I, it was really kind of funny.

You want to know the story? I don't think I've ever told you. So I get, I, I knew the minute it happened that I was pregnant. I knew the minute that it happened. I don't want to get graphic, but, you know, the minute I knew I was pregnant. I knew it. I sat there on her honeymoon. Yeah. I just knew. I was like. She was a mad woman.

You never even did this before. How do you know? I was so scared too. I was like really, really scared. But I just knew. And so like a month later, that time of the month didn't come, I started getting really scared. And I'm like, okay, I got to go to the doctor. And so I had my mom set me up an appointment, but I made it like I was just, you know, like a checkup.

Like, oh, I just need to get an appointment. And so my doctor, who is my mom. mom's really good friend and has been my doctor since I was a baby. So she has been my doctor my whole life. Oh wow. And is my mom's like really good friend. And she tells me like you're pregnant and I'm like, please do not tell my mom. Like please, obviously she can't.

And you're 19? I'm 8. 19. Yes, I'm 19. So obviously she can't. I'm like, please don't tell my mom. So we go to, my ex and I go to this like Japanese steakhouse and we're eating lunch. And my mom calls me.

She's like, so what the doctor say? Like, how was your appointment? I was like, oh, it was fine. She was like, so what's she say? Uh-oh. And I was like, what do you mean? Mama, be known. She was like, what did she say?

And I just paused. And I was like, I'm pregnant. And she just hung up the phone. So did the Lord tell her that? Or did the friend tell her that? I don't think the friend told her. You never asked her? Y'all didn't ask her to talk about this.

Yeah, I didn't ask. Because you ain't my doctor no more. No, no, no. No, I'm going to tell you, I'm going to tell you what happened. What? After I knew in my mind that I was like, I'm probably pregnant, like a few weeks later, not so before I found out officially, before I went to the doctor, my mom said, I had this dream about this little baby boy. She had a dream about a little baby boy. Then somebody said that they had a dream.

And I could be mixing up just a little bit. I had to answer. But it was something to the extent of another friend said that they had. had some sort of dream with my mom with a little boy. And my mom was like, well, I can't have no more babies. Like, it ain't me. And as she's saying this, obviously, I am full of fear because I know what she's talking about. But I didn't, I hadn't gone to the doctor yet.

The Lord was telling her. Like, the Lord had to have told. That was the thing my entire childhood. Like my mom. When you got saved parents, bro? That wasn't my life. But. Yeah.

You can't get away with anything. Like the Lord told on me all the time. Like all the time. I could never get away with anything. So anyway, yeah, she didn't talk to me for two weeks. Dang. She gave me the silent treatment for two weeks. Dang.

Until one day I came home from work. I was in excruciating pain. I was vomiting. I could not stop. I was having so much pain in my stomach. And I just laid in her bed. And she came home and found me. And then that's when she like softened.

Yeah. And then she just was nice. Sorry, my baby. Come here. Yeah. Come here. Catch your sup break. I was like, you're going to have to talk to me because I need someone else.

I need help. For sure. Yeah, it was rough. As far as like my relationship with the Lord, it hurt it to an extent because of the way people treated me at my church. People were really mean. They were really mean. So there's a pattern. Your mom goes through a broken situation.

The church treats her away. Yeah. You go through a situation where you get pregnant. The church treats you away. Why is that a thing? I think, well, I think it's. two things. I think it's humans. People are people, right? But I also think that when you're the one going through something, how people react and respond to you, even in the littlest ways,

are like magnified. So like you're just sensitive. You're raw. And so when people aren't mindful to be overly gracious and overly merciful and overly kind and overly gentle, then like it just it just magnifies and increases the lie that the enemy is telling you that you messed up, you're not worthy, everyone hates you, you're never going to be restored, you're never going to, you know what I mean, like any ounce of distance between people, you know what I mean? And I feel like that's what it was. Like a lot of people just were like, it was kind of shunned. But my mom, thank God for my mom, because she was a deacon at our church.

and she was over all the seating. We had a really, really big, the church we went to was really, really big, mega church. And so she was the person that was over the seating. And she made me sit in the second row with her every Sunday.

And she was like, I am not ashamed of you and you are not going to be ashamed of this baby. Wow. Sex was the sin. But this baby, God allowed. That's a good mama. Yeah. And she was just like, I'm not,

I am not going to be embarrassed of you. Like, we're going to sit here on the second row and you're still going to have a relationship with the Lord, regardless of what these people say about you. And she made it very clear that she was like, I love my daughter. And I'm not going to let nobody, like, I'm not going to let anybody, you know, make you feel

away because you decided to keep your child. That part. That part. That part. And I'm pretty sure your mom's had a lot of fear, you know, with people treating you way because the church treated her way. Yeah. And my mom is a very strong person.

Like, she's extremely strong. I don't even know if this makes sense, but has your struggle with the church helped seeing your mom really wrestle through still being in community after what she went through? You know what I'm saying? You actually returning back to the church? You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

Because for her to go through what she went through. Yeah. And is she still involved in the church? Yeah. She believes in being a part of a local church. Like, she never stopped going to church, never stops giving. She is. Because that's so, the reason why, because I'm thinking about my mom.

my mom got treated and she hasn't been back to a church in years. And so that's not always, you know what I'm saying? I think it's the mercy of God that we return. But it's not that, you know, like I think a lot of people need to watch how they treat people. For sure. In the church because a lot of people are not a part of local communities because of people. Because of people. Yeah.

Yeah. I think one thing that helped with my mom is that number one, she's always had an affinity towards the Lord since she was younger. So it's always been, like she's always had these little moments where she knew it was God, even though that wasn't a thing that was very, like, heavily talked about in her house. Like, they were all Christians, but it wasn't like, you didn't see everybody reading there. You know, it wasn't like that. But I think when she decided to give her life fully to the Lord, when she found out she was pregnant with me,

she decided to fully believe God's word. And it was just like, no matter what I'm going through, I really believe in. his word. And so regardless of what she went through with the church that we were a part of, she believed that she had to be a part of a local body and a local community. So she just stayed a part of church, like no matter what the treatment was. And I think for me, I was doing the opposite. So once all the stuff happened with me being pregnant, all the things, after I worked for that same church, and it wasn't the healthiest situation. I stopped going to church.

Like, it wasn't until this year that I joined a church. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. You have three sons. I said I was about to ask next. Oh, good.

I was going to ask about your children. I know that you have a son with special needs. And, you know, when I first found that out, I was like, wow, I didn't know that about you. I have two brothers with special needs. and just growing up with brothers with special needs, it gets tough. Yeah. It's hard.

You know what I'm saying? So just talk about that experience of growing up having to love someone with, you know, special needs. Caleb is, Caleb was part of my, like, return to the Lord. So he was, I had Caleb in 2012. And then I had Jonah 2014 in May. Caleb was diagnosed in July.

So, and all of my kids are only like, well, especially Caleb and Jonah, they're only like a year and a half apart. So I was going through postpartum, and then my child gets diagnosed. That's a lot. And so it was a lot. And I became a stay-at-home mom, which was also a lot. And what's the diagnosis for people that don't? So Caleb was diagnosed with autism.

And then a year later, he was diagnosed with fragile X syndrome, which is a dysfunction in the X chromosome that doesn't allow the body to produce the protein that's needed for brain development. So he's technically mentally disabled. And so they said, you know, Caleb will never have friends. He will never graduate from high school. If he does, he won't be until he's like in his 20s. He'll never be able to live on his own. he'll never have relationships he'll never have a job

he may never talk like it was just this is what this is your life now and I think what I think what was the hardest thing is like me and my ex didn't really

process it together like it was just like okay what do we got to do because at the end of the day this diagnosis ain't stopping these bills and it's not stopping these other two kids that we also have to raise right So like there's responsibility and we're both young, right? We're making 30,000 a year or he was and I was maybe making 25,000 a year.

So we're not making that much money with three kids, one with special needs. So like life just had to continue. But that time of even though I resisted it, I resisted being a stay-at-home mom, I'm thankful for it now because I had a lot of alone time with God. Like I had a lot of time to just be in my head with God But it was a specific moment where Caleb Because he doesn't talk, he's nonverbal, he just would scream a lot He would just scream or cry

And when he would cry, it would be for hours and hours Like he just couldn't stop So he's sitting on my lap, I'm in my living room, The other two kids are running around And I just can't get Caleb to calm down And so I just sit in the middle of the floor And I just started crying And he's in my lap and I'm trying to like

rock him and get him sued. And I just started crying. And I literally was like, why God? Like, why? Why? Because Caleb was the only kid I wanted. He was the only one I planned for. Like, I begged God for Caleb.

And so I felt like he was punishing me. Because now the kid that I begged for, like, now he has, you know, these two diagnoses. And I felt guilty because I felt like I forced Caleb here. I was like, maybe if I didn't ask for him, I wouldn't have a child with special. needs. And so I felt really guilty. But I remember sitting on the floor and I was just like, why God, why God? And I felt like he was like, why not? And it was the first time that I felt like

I could really like hear the Lord. Like I could, I knew it was him because it wasn't me. I just knew it was him. And he was just like, why not? And I remember if it was like, if I know the plans I have for you, I also know the plans that I have for Caleb. Wow. And I allowed it and I'll bring you through it. And I'll use it for my glory. And I needed him to. show me scripture. I was like, okay, well, I need to see where you've done this before. Yeah. I asked him that. I was like, I need to, I need you to show me that you've done this before. Yeah. And then it brought me, I think it's Mark, I don't know if it's Matthew 9 or Mark 9. I don't know, it's one of them. But where he says, like, neither the mother or the father's sin. But it's for my glory. That's good. And that was the scripture that anchored me because I felt so guilty.

John 9. John 9, of John 9, sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know addresses. He teaches it all time. But I know it's in me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, that was the scripture that angry. Yeah, I was going to, that's what I was going to ask you. I was going to ask you, do you think, man, every time I've heard you talk about this, I can't think about my mom and I get a little emotional, but I'm not going to cry because I'm a G. Do you think that there are things that you wouldn't know about God if you didn't have a son with special needs?

No. I don't think I wouldn't know him for real unless he did it miraculously. another way. But like, the way that you are forced to be holy in a way when you have children

with special needs because it forces you to be patient. It, not forces, but it produces patience. It produces kindness. It produces long suffering. It produces endurance.

Preservaer. Like, it forces you to do this because now I have to do this because I love this kid so much. I can't. Like he, because I loved him so much, it, like, promoted and provoked me to do all the things that the Lord had commanded me to do. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And what's crazy is, you know, like all the things that you said, I think that's like normal for any parent. Yeah. But because you have a kid with special needs, I'm pretty sure the intensity of, oh yeah. Of, you know, you're seeing God in these ways. Because like me being a father, you know, it forcing me to be patient. But like having a child with special needs, I'm pretty sure it just intensifies. Oh, yeah. And then I had all my friends, not all my friends, but a lot of my friends, especially at the church that we were at the time. They were having children.

Like, we had children at the same time. And so you would see your child who's the same age as your friend's child hit milestones that your child's not hitting. Yeah. And that is, that's one of the hardest things. And because people aren't, and it's not their fault, you know, it's just ignorance and you don't know. Yeah. You know, you had, like, I would have, I had a friend, her and her husband, and we had children at the same time. And they, this was their first child.

This is my second, but this was their first. And they would just, you know, we all worked together at the church. And they would just be like, oh, yeah, and she did this and she did that. And da-da-da-da-da. And I would just be like. Wow. Like, you want to be happy for them. Because obviously, like, you want, like, it's amazing.

But it's like, here I am. and my kid won't look at me or my kid won't talk or my kid won't say mommy or my kid won't. Like Caleb wouldn't even hold his bottle. Like getting him to hold his bottle was a huge milestone. Getting him to put his bottle in the sink and not throw it on the floor or eat with a spoon. Like Caleb didn't eat with a spoon until he was like three or four.

You know, just like little things like that. Like it was really hard. I have a lot of questions. I don't want to, you got a couple questions? Y'all having a good time. No, I have a lot of questions. Because, you know, this is so much of my life, you know what I'm saying? I will love for you to just talk about how have you practically, because, okay, so growing up, I was the youngest, but I wasn't the youngest.

Right. Because my brother was technically the youngest. My brother's a year older than me. He was one year, one, one day apart. But he was the youngest. You know what I'm saying? And- You mean he was the youngest?

He was older than you, but he was technically younger. but he would like, he developed. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So like my mom, you know what I'm saying? So it was,

it was seasons where I felt very jealous. You know what I'm saying? My sister, she lived, she got pregnant when she was 16. And so my mom had to take care of her. Then my mom had to take care of my brother. And so I was just in the streets.

You know what I'm saying? Because, you know what I mean? I'm like in emotional. But like, how have you like, like try to make sure, you know,

you pour in, pouring to, your other children. And because I'm pretty sure Caleb, like, he requires a lot of attention. Yeah. And so to not make them feel abandoned, abandoned, left out, all the things. Yeah. So Eli is my oldest and Eli's two years older than Caleb.

And knowing how, Eli is just like a very sweet child. Even to this day, he's just a very, he's my oldest. And he's just very nice. very, like, he was very kind, very sweet, very loving. And, um, Eli, because he was the oldest, like, God is just so kind in how he, like, orchestrates things. But because he was the oldest, he already had some sort of, like, independence because he didn't have any other sibling for two years. So he already had kind of this independence. And the day that, it was like, Caleb's first day with his therapist

at the house after we got his diagnosis. And, um, she was a teacher. They, call them technically they're just teachers but they come in and they do occupational things speech things physical therapy things all the things right and it was our first time with her and Eli kept trying to come in and play with her and I had to pull him to the side and I was like I need like Caleb just needs to be with her like she's she's just here for him and we hadn't told him about the diagnosis yet. And so they're continuing to play and she's working with Caleb on the floor. And I realized that Eli had kind of went missing. And I'm like, where was Eli at? And so I walk in the kitchen and he's sunk down in the kitchen up against the cabinets. And he's crying. And I'm like, what's wrong, buddy? And he was like,

you know, I just really wanted to play. And, you know, he felt left out. He felt like, you know, Caleb's getting all this attention. And so I sat on the floor with him and I explained to him that Caleb had autism. And what that meant was as best I could describe to him at that five-year-old age, four and a half five-year-old age, was, you know, Caleb is just going to require more attention than other kids. And, um, um, but that's okay. You know, we, we love Caleb. We're going to be there for him. And we just all have to kind of give him a little bit more attention than normal. As Eli, as I'm telling him this, He starts to get more emotional, but he gets up and runs to Caleb.

And he says, it's okay, Caleb. I sing Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star for you. And so he starts singing Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star, Sam. It was just the sweetest thing in the world. But I think that I tried to do a really good job ever since they were little, including them on the journey with Caleb. So it didn't feel like that was separate than their lives. And as they got older, especially like,

Within the last maybe six years, I was really big on letting them know that like when God created Caleb, he also had you guys in mind. And when he created you, he had Caleb in mind. And so like God knew that this was going to be our dynamic. And so he's giving you grace. Like his grace is sufficient for all of us because he created all of us knowing our end from our beginning, which includes Caleb's diagnosis. That's great. And so I think that like, and as they get older, obviously the language matures. But it's like, like, God didn't stop thinking about you because Caleb's here.

And you're going to be just as part of his development because he thought of you. Like he saw you fit to be his big brother. And so, like, you're a part of this too. And so my kids, like, if you watch my kids like at my house, they are so mindful of their brother. Caleb ate, oh, I gave him this. Oh, he's upstairs. Or I told him to do this. I, you know, they're just very like, they're really are their brother's keeper.

Like, they really embody that. Because God, God had them in mind, too. Like, he knew, like, he gave them what they needed to be. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And they're really, they're just amazing. Like, every time I drop Caleb off, Caleb and Caleb is in middle school now. And so Eli and Caleb go to two different schools, but they're both in middle school.

And Caleb's always in the back seat. Eli's always in the front seat. And I always get emotional every time. I dropped them off because Eli gets out of the car and he goes over to Caleb's side of the window and he's like, all right, twin and he makes him dab him up and he says, I love you.

And Caleb go, I love you, Eli. I love you. And it's just a sweet. Like, they're just very loving and sweet to their brother and I just love that. That's sweet. Yeah. I think being... I got another question. Go ahead. One more question. One more question. One more question. I promise. It's the last question.

That's fine. Yeah, you can ask whatever. She didn't even got shoes on. She obviously. Yeah, like I think the reason why I like talking to you about this is because you remind me of my mom in that way, but you're a believer. And so I think I'm hearing from a Christian woman what it means to like raise a young man with special needs. And so I think it's refreshing for me. Thanks. So I remember the last time my mom.

let a man stay with us. You're getting very vulnerable. Yeah. Because, I mean, she's vulnerable, so I might as well be vulnerable. The last time she let a man stay with us, she got into a fight with her boyfriend, and he put her hands on her, and now I had to jump in and stabbing with the eye

with her own brothers. True story. True story. And the eye? Yeah, I stopped stabbing the eye with her own brother. And I remember my mom, she left the house, and she walked to the store. And it was deep because I was a young boy, but I remember my mom's basically like talking to her friend on the phone.

And after she got off the phone, she said, if, you know, this man cannot handle the fact that I have a son with special needs, he can't be with me. You know, and then she said, she said something immediately after that she said, people got to understand that Brandon is going to be with me for the rest of my life. You know what I'm saying? And they have to just deal with that. And so, like, I don't think the average person understands, like, what it means to have a child that would never leave. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. And so, like. And the fear. And the fear. Because you will die before that child. Yes. So then what happens to him? That's my mom's fear now.

Yeah. Yeah. It's very scary. and I try really hard not to think about it or allow it to make me fearful because it's hard to think about that you know what I mean? Because it's like where are they going to go

and they're so precious. Somebody give me some tissue, man. They're very, they're very, yeah, it's just a hard, it's a really hard thing to. It feels, especially sometimes, as a Christian, it feels like that conversation becomes taboo. Nobody knows how to talk about it. Nobody wants to talk about it, address it.

But, and especially when in the Christian context, for a lot of people who have children with special needs, it's like, you just got to believe more. You got to pray more. Yeah. You know, you got to cast that thing out. And I don't subscribe to that idea. I don't, I don't know. I struggle with when people say things like that. I wanted to bring that up because I think being friends with you

and being at your house and stuff like that is giving me an awareness and sensitivity to children with special needs and what that must be like as a parent to even hear certain language around it. So like, for example, we were in church and somebody was on the mic and he asked people, I'm going to say it because, I mean, I feel like it needs to be said.

He asked everybody to stand up. who had children with autism, and then he went on to basically exhort them to say that, like, God can deliver that demon. Which happened to my mom a bunch of times. Yeah. And I turned to you, and I was like, isn't that, like, unhelpful?

Because in my heart, I thought about you. Like, I thought about, like, I don't know if that's actually encouraging. Once he said that, I sat down. Yeah, for you to say that her child is demon-possessed. Like, I don't know. Speak. This stuff is triggering, man.

Yeah, I don't, I hate, I really hate that language. because Caleb came into this world like this. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And so if the scripture is true, which I believe all scripture is true, that he knew us before he placed us in our mother's womb and Caleb came into the world like this, then I feel like he knew he would be this way. Caleb doesn't just have like a, because autism is an umbrella.

It can be severe. It can be mild. It can be sensory. It could be. socially, like your social filter can be off. Like autism is such an umbrella. But with Caleb having autism and fragile X syndrome, that means he came into this world with a dysfunction in his ex-chromosome.

Yeah. God created him. Yeah. God created the chromosome. God created his chromosome. You know what I'm saying? So I can't subscribe to the fact that my child has a demon. But I can just subscribe to,

to the fact that God has worked through Caleb's situation, his diagnosis and drawn me closer to him. And because God drew me closer to him through Caleb, this is why I'm sitting here now. Yeah. Like, it really is. I started communicating once Caleb got diagnosed, I started getting on Facebook,

and I started inviting people into that process, which started to develop my articulation about what I was experiencing with the Lord. and every post had something to do with the lesson that God was teaching me. Do you know what I'm saying? So it's like if I, if Caleb didn't have that, I wouldn't have in totality. And then when I see all the testimonies that have come from that, do you know what I'm saying? Like I just believe that God is working through it.

And if he never talks, the Lord speaks through Caleb all the time. Yeah. If he like, I don't know, I just can't subscribe and it is extremely unhelpful. Yeah. It's extremely unhelpful. Yeah. And it doesn't feel godly. Why do you think that's a position people tell you?

Like, is it because we don't know how to deal with mystery? Like, why my child is this way? And so the only thing I can't. We don't know how to deal with suffering. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And what's crazy is, like, I said this is triggering.

A lot of it is triggering for me, which is the reason why I got emotional. But even, okay. It's a fly. But, like, you know, I put this in chapter 7 in my book, like, you know, which I hated church because, you know, they told my mom, my head of demon because I was really bad. And they told my mom, my brother Brandon, had a demon because he, because of his mental challenges. And that's really discouraging to a single parent.

Yeah. To tell, you know, a mother that she has a, like, your child has a demon because they were born that way. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. But also, too, I think one of the reasons why I got, I got emotional. I sucked it back in because I'm a G. And I let it fall.

It's because, like, I think, I think to he, I think to hear you talk about like, you know, yeah, like to even think about like dying before your child. And my mom, she has like heart issues. And she's been having heart attacks for the last two and a half years. And she just had open heart surgery last year. And to just sit with my mom and to and to Debbie, her own. fear. You know?

Yeah. And then thinking about like, I got to take care of my brother if she leaves. And that's a pressure that parents, so not only do you have the fear of what's going to happen to me after I die, but then you have this guilt that now I've put a responsibility on my kids. Wow. My kids can't have a life. Yeah.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And so my mom, she talks about that all the time. She apologizes. She gives us like... plans when she leaves for him. And it's tough. It's tough.

What would it look like for the church to care for parents and children and adults with special needs? Like what is the thing? I think that, you know, I think that the book of action gives us a really clear picture of generosity and community. And, you know, all their needs were met. And I just don't believe that just their physical needs were. met or their financial needs were met. I believe that their emotional needs were met. Their mental

needs were met. And I think that- The church being a church. Yeah. And I think that we need to be the church that takes care of all types of people. And it's like there should be no mother that is in the body of Christ that should be fearful of what's going to happen to her after she leaves. Facts. Because the church should have something established for mothers, for parents to feel secure. that my child will be loved and taken care of regardless if I'm here or not. And the burden won't just be on my son, my youngest and my oldest,

but the burden will be on the church. It would be on the community because that's what we're supposed to do. We're supposed to take on each other's burdens. That's what God has called us to do. People often use that scripture, like none of us should have lack to mean like we all should be rich.

It's like, no, if we truly the church, we shall all be taken care of. Yeah. And I think my mom, she ended up leaving the church. because she just lost confidence. She was like, my friends would take care of me more than the church would, you know. And I think that's just very unfortunate, you know. But yeah.

We don't even have, I mean, churches, it's very rare that churches will even have, you know, they're even special needs conscious. That's not even a thing. Yeah. Like. What would it look like, though, for a church to be special needs conscious? Like what would that look like? It looks like having sensory

sensory rooms where because a lot of times people's kids will act up in church and they're like oh they got a demon, they're bad. No, they're overstimulated. Yeah. You don't understand that as a special needs child

like right now we're having this conversation. The lights are going. The toilet flush. You can hear all these and I can filter out that airplane. You can filter all that stuff out. for special needs because they can't filter it out. It's all happening at the same time.

Smell, sight, hear, like all your touch. Everything is, this shirt is sitting on my body and I'm not even thinking about it. For people with special needs, they feel everything. They're very sensitive. So no, he doesn't have a demon.

He's overstimulated. Maybe if we had a room that was like sensory, you know, it's helpful for their senses in the sense of like it's quiet room. It's not fluorescent lights. It has things for them to focus their attention on or whatever. It can be as simple as that. Bringing in somebody a professional.

Bring in, you know, a special needs teacher or a special needs therapist. Ask your congregation and ask what they need. And even sensitivity training, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like sensitivity training and like telling people not to stare or giving the parents confidence. Because if my mom had a lot of confidence that people knew how to handle him, yeah. If she would go to a lot of more social environments.

Yeah. But she didn't have that confidence. And I think it's just curiosity, right? Like, truth, I never told you this. But even when I became friends with you, I started buying books about autism. Oh, you're a good friend. That's such a good friend. But it's like I'm exposed, so now I need to learn.

You get what I'm saying? And so it's like, we're reading about dating. We're reading about marriage. We're reading about all types of stuff But it's just like there's a lot of resources That we can also like equip ourselves with So that we know how to like love people better Can I just add and I'm not trying to be

And we can move on to something You don't say something make me grog again I'm really not I just see I just want to say this because I feel like it's I don't know But when you have a child with special needs That's already a thing But I have a black boy

With special needs and so it adds another level of opportunity to be fearful. And so I think that we, if we could be better as a church, to really be mindful and we hold each other down. Do you know what I'm saying? Because I'm tired of seeing black autistic children, autistic boys, because these kids don't stay kids. they grow up to be men, right?

I'm tired of seeing them mistreated and misunderstood by authorities. And so there are tons of ways and things that I have mulled over in my mind of ways that we could be better just community-wise. But church-wise, I think if we start in the church, I think we would even be able to change legislation. Yeah. And I'm trying to be mindful of how I say that. But I just feel like we need to change legislation.

My child is, I have a special needs child. It should be registered. The police, the local precincts should know that my child that lives at this house, this child has special needs. So if you get a call, you need to come with somebody who has sensitivity training and a therapist that can also help not just coming with your guns. And I, because I've seen it. That's facts.

Do you know that I talk to police from shooting my brother twice? one time he had pulled a knife for my dad and the other time he got into a fight with my friend junior and the police

was called and I literally had to stand in front of the police my brother has special needs please yeah please don't shoot my brother my brother

my brother has special needs yeah one of the times I literally had to grab his head and put his head in my chest and put him to the ground

and cover my brother so the police when shoot him so that needs trying to make me cry. I'm sorry. I'm just saying that needs to be...

She needs to go. Maybe we need to talk about most teachers. She needs to get out the couch. No, I'm sorry, but I just think that it would be... I think if my point is, is that if we start at the church, I don't expect the world to take care of us. Yeah, the church has to start. But I do expect for the body of believers to step up and say, like,

and I talk to Dr. Eric Mason about it, and he was like, yeah, like, we're bringing in somebody to talk to parents. And I just think that that's necessary. Even if you... even if you don't have all the infrastructure figured out, ask that your members, do we have people in here that have children with special needs? Do you bring them to church?

Do you have to switch off? And one parent stays at home and one parent comes to church? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, ask and then go from there. But we need to be the church that looks like the book of acts. And we need to be the community and take care of each other's needs. For sure. Speaking of acts, you have a conference.

You have a conference. We have a conference. Acts 2.42. Where did that idea come from? Well, you. It was your idea. I was literally going to say that early when we was talking about you being a leader. Because I remember Jackie coming home saying,

making an idea to do a retreat for us to go and teach people. I'm like, who does that? It was so wholesome. It was like so wholesome. I was like, that's actually. But it's also just a testament of you being a leader. Because leaders don't just identify problems. They create resources and avenues by which to fix it.

And so you're seeing like, oh, there's a discipleship gap. Let's figure this out. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't, it didn't start off with like 7,000 people. But I just, I think our friendship provoked this desire to be disciples. Like, you really introduced me to what discipleship really was. And I think she did. She really did.

Like, even in, like, really discerning and reading God's word. And, like, I always, like, I don't know. I always knew God, like, about God's word to an extent. But, like, Jackie made me feel like, no, all of it is true. Like, you have to read all of it. Jackie has that effect on people. Yeah. And so, I had, I was like, okay, well, maybe we should, like, I was like, would you guys mind?

Like, me and a few friends, like, I'll get an Airbnb somewhere and we can just like sit down and you guys. I never asked. She put a whole Canva presentation together. Yeah, it did. No, it was nice. I never asked who were these people with these your friends? Yeah, it was, it was Ebenezer, Brenda, and Norris. And I just, because they were all starting, like, influencer.

They were all kind of starting their, you know, they had been in ministry. That's leadership. And I was like, let's all get together and like, here's the problem. Do we want to talk about the development? Here was the problem. It's like, okay, Airbnb costs money, flights cost money. honorariums, food, all of that. And I'm like, if we're going to have these leaders and teachers come that are impactful,

one, I think we should charge. Two, we should actually broaden it out with the things that they would teach four, they can teach many. You know what I'm saying? So it wasn't like, I'm going to be like what it is now. Yeah, it started off with four of us and then it moved to seventh thousand. That's crazy But I think as time

I think as time progressed I was just more sensitive to like we need it Yeah Like we need it I was a part of a church in Atlanta And I thought it was like I was like oh yeah this is it

This is my place And I was like It wasn't until like I really started Going through the word That I was like oh my gosh Like I actually have not been It's a terrible place reading God's word.

For the people that might be confused, you probably should just tell them what the Acts conference is and when is it. So, I ain't wanted to feel like a promo. But it got to be because it's like people going to have questions. If I was listening to this and I didn't know about it, I'd be like, what are they talking about? Oh, you're right.

Yeah. So we have a conference in October, October 25th and 26, two days, Friday and Saturday. And it's called Acts 242, where it says they dedicated themselves to the teaching of the apostles, the prayers, the Breaking Bread, the Fellowship, and it just kind of encapsules the church

and God's first intent for his church, like his original intent for his church. And that type of dedication produce a massive response in the world, right? And I think if we can return back to that, we can also have a massive response in the world. For sure. And create an opportunity,

but it can produce an opportunity for DeLaur to draw, many more souls into the kingdom because I do believe that we're running out of time. Yeah, for sure. I'm like, yeah. I think y'all know this, but y'all know how big this is in the city of Atlanta? I do know. I am naive, so I don't know.

I don't always know. It's super big. And the reason why it's because I think that we live in one of the most idolatrous places. For sure. On the planet. Come on. For sure, Phil. No, seriously.

He always comes out the American church. I'm talking about Burmese. Atlanta. You think it's worse than L.A. Now it is. Yeah. You think it's gotten worse than L.A. Now it is.

Now it is. Listen to me. I think it's more influential than L.A. Really? Because of hip-hop culture. Because the music is coming out of year. Because of hip-hop. Now, L.A., they got media.

Yeah, I was going to say the media. They have the influence of that. But I think Atlanta is just a different piece. Because because... And we're religious. Yeah, because, like, at the end of the day, like, if we fulfilled the great commission, if we go out, make disciples in a city like this, I don't think that we,

you understand, like, the impact that it will have for future generations. And, you know, I feel like that's why the enemy, a lot, in a lot of ways, mad about the conference. That's what y'all got to be praying. I mean. I've been praying about the conference. I've been praying about the conference. Intercede, please.

Yeah. But I, but I, but I was just, I was just, I probably shouldn't even say this on, well, I'll say it. I was just finding out that it's so many hidden brothels here. Like so many. So much, you know. Is it like the Asian ones that are like? The massage parlor? Yes.

Is that what a brothel is? I don't know what a brothel is. It's like I think it's technically a prostitution organization. It's basically a lot of prostitution. Oh, man. A lot of young men, especially they come from the church struggling because like sex. It's so perverted here. You know, so many different religions.

So many different new age religions, false religions. so much like vanity. And, you know, I just, I say that to say this, I think that the X conference has an opportunity to spark like a fire in the city of Atlanta. That's that, that we, y'all probably won't even see the impact that it would have on this side of heaven. So I think that's what we should be praying about. Yeah. Yeah, I think, I think Atlanta is, it's dark, but there's beauty.

And I think there's beauty because the church is here. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, I think the Lord has sent certain people into this city for a reason. And in my mind, it's not even just helping people to return back to doctrine and truth. But also, like, I really want churches to be planted out of the ass. Like, I really do. Like, because...

You've been saying that from the beginning. I said this on your podcast. Like, I was getting irritated by the lack of discipleship, the lack of doctrinal fidelity, all the things. And I'm reading in Matthew. And Jesus is like, yeah, the harvest is plentable. The labors are few. you pray that I send more labors into the harvest. And it was like I was criticizing, but I wasn't praying.

You know what I'm saying? Nor was I doing what I needed to do to make sure. So it's like to me, it's like if people come and feel this burning like, I probably need to plant a church here. Do it. Because I got to say this, a conference won't sustain you. Yep. So you can go to acts, but if you don't have a community, a church with leaders and elders

and deacons and on small groups or squads, whatever you want to call them, Like, if you don't have that, Axe will just be a moment. It won't actually disciple you into like a lifestyle. I think about what Brian told me about how much legacy conference, like, produced a lot of churches after that. Praise God.

You know what I'm saying? And I think if, if that, I think it can't happen with Acts. I think if it does, I think that it'd be dope. Yeah. I pray that it produces not only churches,

but just serious believers. Like, that's really my biggest prayer is that people come and they are met with the true doctrine, right, and the true and living God. Like, I want them to come and really, like, be met with the real Lord and Savior. And it produced, like, a seriousness in them

where they're, like, I can no longer, like, I know what I know and I can no longer return back to what I used to. You can't have Dr. Seria in a conference and they're not experienced a true of living God because they want to be. reach on. That's so bad. That's a fact.

Everybody. Like, it's going to be, it's going to be pretty crazy. Praise God. Praise God. I ain't got nothing else. I got anything else. Thanks for making me cry, Megan. Sorry.

Get out of here, muck up. Bye y'all. With the Perrys is produced by the Perrys, with support from Amanda Reed and Channing McBride. Video recording and audio production by Matthew Baxter and Xavier Fairley. Edited by the team at Tread Lively, artwork by Hop and music by Swoop. Thank you for listening. Now go with God.