With The Perrys - Practicing Humility

Episode Date: April 22, 2024

Pride is an illusion wrapped in a lie, and it's in each of us. It’s our desire for total independence from our Creator, and it makes us feel good because we feel secure and capable. But it never satisfies in the way we think it will. In this episode, Preston and Jackie discuss how keeping God as our reference point is the only way to embrace true humility.   This Episode Sponsored by: https://magicspoon.com/PERRY — Get $5 off right now with code PERRY! https://liberty.edu/Perry — Get your application fee WAIVED when you start your future with Liberty University today! Subscribe to the Perrys' newsletter: https://withtheperrys.myflodesk.com/zhfus4jx1s Join Preston's discipleship community for men: https://www.patreon.com/PrestonPerry/membership To support the work of the Perrys, donate via PayPal: https://paypal.me/withtheperrys Shop BOLD Apparel: boldapparel.shop Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jesus loves me this I know for the Bible tells me so little ones to him belong. Yeah. We are weak, but he is strong. What? Yes, Jesus loves me. Okay. Yes, Jesus loves me. Yeah.

Yes, Jesus love me. How you know. Bible tells me so. Because in John 316, it says for God. For God. So loved. The world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

So it's giving love. Okay. What? Hi, Saints. How are you? What's up with y'all? And the a ain't that tune in. We know y'all here too.

One day you're going to turn from your sin. One day by the power. of the Holy Spirit, you're going to see yourself in light of God's gospel and say, you know what, I deserve hell. I don't want to be, ain't no more. I don't want to go there. I don't want to be, but not even hell. Like, I don't think hell should be the primary incentive for your repentance.

What should it be? Jesus. Himself. Because you see him as worthy. See, Paul says, I count everything as lost. Talk to him. Compared to the surpassing worth, hello value. He's worthy.

Of knowing Christ Jesus. Oh, we bless him. So when you see him. When you see him. When you see him, when you see him compared to you sin. When the veils is taking off. him compared to your vomit when you see him compared to your little your little sex capades when you see him compare to your LCD not LCD LSD because because y'all doing the LSD and all

the things because you want to feel good and you want to see things but what about new Jerusalem? Huh? What about the new heavens in the earth? What is it going to feel like when you get to hell? That ain't going to be something you want to see. Huh? You don't need mushrooms to see glory. You just need the Holy Ghosts. Okay. How you know what we're talking about? Humility. No, I got excited singing the song. You crazy. Because it took me to where I was supposed to go. Other than that, I mean, pride is a thing.

Humility is a thing. And I don't know if people know how far reaching and what's the word? Subtle pride can be. Because I think we often think of pride like the super arrogant, egotistical person that's like flashing their money or flexing their status or moving in certain ways. But I have seen some of the most sinister forms of pride in myself and in others. There is pride in the Sunday school mother. There is pride in the 90-year-old daddy.

Like pride is in everyone except Jesus. Yeah. Yeah. What's crazy is I think because. we have somewhat of a public platform. You know, every time we would do a Q&A, every time we would do an event where people ask us questions,

the question that we will always get through the years is because y'all do what y'all do. How do y'all guard yourself with pride? And I tell them all the time, I think the same way you do. It is surrendering these prideful thoughts and the thing that's in all of us, which is this fallen nature

to the one who said, come to the throne of grace, that you might receive help and grace in your time of need. And so we all had that innate thing in us that pushes us to pride and not humility. But yeah, I've seen sin us a version of pride. Oh, part of ugly.

It's ugly. Miriam Webster, who is that by that? the way. Do we know this person? I know I got three sisters name, not three sisters, three cousins named Miriam. Yeah, two on my mom's side and one of my dad's side. It's something about that name that makes people like, Mariam. Merriam? Merriam.

It just feels like somebody with their name knows how to stitch. Yeah, yeah, know how to stitch. Like they be at the airport with the little needles making the little thing. Know how to stitch and know how to fry chicken. Yeah, and make sugar cookies with no sugar. prize says the quality or state of being proud that ain't good that's not a good judgment a reasonable self-esteem confidence and satisfaction in oneself no b i like b pleasure that comes from some relationship association achievement or possession that is seen as a source of honor and respect or another one is conceit which is an exaggerated self-esteem which is a lot like what paul says when he says you'll be puffer up meaning you'll be when he talks about being puffed up it's like you're inflated like a balloon and so if you're inflated that means you float high above your actual status and so that's why

he he tells us to not think more highly than we ought to think yeah that's good um pride where did it come from where do we first see it in the bible the fall well i think we first seen it when Eve thought that she can obtain something good and the very thing that God said will kill her. You know? And just this idea that we know more than our creator and that we're smarter than our creator. I know that, you know, when I was young,

I used to always think that I knew more than my mom. And when I became a Christian, I used to literally think like, oh, God, I know you're telling me to do this, but I think this is, this is the better way. What's you going to read? Yeah.

So pride obviously existed before sin. Pride existed in existence before sin was a human issue. Break that down. Because the devil fell because of pride. So obviously Eve or Adam wasn't the original. of pride. Right. The serpent like had it already. But the serpent comes into the garden in Genesis 3. And we all know the story, but I'm a reader for the sake of understanding. Now, the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, did God

actually say, you shall not eat any of any tree in the garden. So cunning. And the woman said to the serpent, we may either the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said you shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that's in the midst of the garden. Neither shall you touch it lest you die. Pause. Now, verse one, he's already tempting her towards arrogance and conceit because now he has her questioning the possibility of God's word being true or not. Right. So as soon as you put yourself in the position to question if I can decide if what God has said is actually valid, you're proud. Yeah. Right. Because who are you, old man to question God? Okay. So, So verse two, the woman said to the serpent, we may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden.

But God said, you shall not eat of the fruit of the trees in the midst of the garden. It shall you touch unless you die for. But the serpent said, you will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it, your eyes will be open and you will be like God, pride, knowing good and evil. It's proud to assume that you could be like God because at that point you've forgotten that you're a creature created by God. Talk about it. That is so profoundly arrogant. Yeah.

To think that a made thing can be like the maker. Yeah. Which tells you that there's a level, there's a sense in which pride is an illusion. It is. It's not true. It is. It's a sham. And what's deep to me is, you know, one of the things that I've learned the most doing ministry,

especially evangelistic work is a lot of people have a distrable. trust of the church. A lot of people have distrust the pastors. A lot of people feel like, I think religion is kind of like, you know, stopping them from reaching their true goals and, you know, oppressive and all of these things. But I think the number one thing that I've always seen is what I see at Eve is that people still want to be their own God, still want to be the rulers of their own faith. And I think when you sought to do ministry outside of the church, you see the inside of the church as well,

but you see this wrestle with man. Like I know, like the Bible tells us that creation testifies that there is a creator. But at the same time, we still have this innate desire to want to want to rule our own. destiny. Yes. Right.

We want to be God. So bad. And it is an illusion. Yeah. It is an illusion. It reminds me of the story of Job when God allowed Job all 12 of Job's kids to be killed and he killed all his livestock. And Job, I mean, rightfully so, start complaining. And God was like, were you there when I made the stars?

Hello? Where were you, sir? Like, were you there when I, I spoke the. Atlantic Ocean into existence. My God. And you were nowhere to be found. Nowhere. Like, who are you?

You was in somebody's testicles. Right. Not even that. That's where you were. Right. And so when you think about, when you think about that, when you think about that, when you think about that we serve this eternal, infinite, an exhaustible God who existed forever ago, who knows everything.

into eternity's past. And we just got here. Right? We're like, we haven't existed, not even a whisper. And guess what? We're on the way out. Right. And so when we think about...

I feel Baptist today. When we think about the level... And this is not just an indictment on some people. This is all of us. This is human. This is universal. Universal, right? Like, every time we...

And so, like, you would think that Job has a right to be like, God. all 12 of my kids died at the same time. My wife telling me to curse you, I got boils sticking to my butt. Huh? Boils? Boils, right? I mean, his clothes are sticking to his skin.

Boyle butt. His homeboys came and told him that he must have, you know, sin against God, right? And so you think that he would have a right to say God, like, you know, but like God had a right to even question him in the midst of him going through all of that. It's like that's even, even though that you're going through that, it's like, where were you when I created the stars? And I think it just speaks to just the pride of men. I learned a phrase in class recently, which is called the creator creature distinction, which is that God is creator. He is transcendent.

He is different. He is set apart. He is maker of heaven and earth. Genesis 1 in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. right so he he stands alone but then there's the creature who god makes creature is made in god's image but the creature is not independent of god and so there is a distinction between the creator and the creature one thing that pride does is that it forgets the distinction it thinks that there is the possibility that the distinction can be done away with and the creature can function like the

creator. And I think that is one of the things we see at work in Genesis 3 is that when you also understand the creator distinction, you recognize it even how you think needs to keep him in mind. Yeah, that's good. And so she, in conversing with the evil one or with the serpent, starts to think independently of God. Yeah. God stops becoming the reference points for her intellectual thoughts. So I mean she looks at the tree and says, this tree looks good for food. It's desire to make one wise. It's, what's the other one? It's a delight to the eyes, right?

She's looking at the tree and examining the tree, but not having the creator of the tree and herself in mind, right? So she's over here diagnosing it like, should I do this or should I do that? But if she had the creator creature distinction in mind, it would be like, God created me. God created the tree. So he is the one who is able to make me wise. He is the one who is delightful to the eyes. He is the one who is the desire to.

Like he becomes the reference point for how she thinks and therefore what she does. And so I think that's an element of us trying to mimic deity by way of pride is that we want total independence of the creator and we can't have it. Yeah. Right. And we. And it's actually exhausting. Yeah. When you really think about pride, pride doesn't satisfy us in the way that we think it does.

Because if you try to live independently of God, it's like swimming against the stream. You know what I'm saying? Like, you're trying to be the boss. You're trying to be omnipresent. Trying to be. Like, some people don't you realize it can be like there's so much pride even in being a hustler. Yeah. And being a busy body.

It's like, yeah, I'm booked and I'm busy. So you are over the place because you want to be omnipresent. Yeah. But how is that working for your anxiety? Yeah. How is that working for your peace? How is that working for even your friendships and the intimacy that you're not cultivating because you're trying to be, you know what I'm saying? You're trying to be everywhere when you can't be.

That's good. But guess who is? God. That's good. And what you said about just like people like trying to. I said a lot. Yeah, you said a whole lot. But like trying to think about things independent from God.

Yes. Like every friend that I know that became an atheist has started off that way. Explain. It started off with them. like trying to make sense of the world of sin, of depravity, because they thought that their own brilliance, their own inability to think, right? Because even like to think about Eve,

like as when the serpent started to talk to her, started to try to stray away from doing what God told her not to do, right? Like, humility tells you that the God who created my mind is allowing me to think right now. Right. But I think what pride does, pride says, man, I've read enough books. I've done enough research that I don't need to incorporate God into my way of thinking. And so what happens is she started to stray away, away, away further and further away from the God who created it all.

And then we end up being fools. And I think that's the thing that I think about when I think about atheism and agnosticism is that like pride literally makes. a fool of us that we can look at the world and the way it's created and not have and be okay but not having all the answers because we don't want to give credit to the one of created. Right? And so pride just really, really makes a fool of us and deceives us.

And I want to emphasize the reason why pride is foolish is because it really is wrapped up in a lie. Yeah. So like, you are not independent. You are not omniscient. You don't know everything. You are not like it's in him that we live and move and have our being. And Romans 1 talks about how we look at the things that God has made and we're not thankful. So even pride has an arrogance about it that lacks gratefulness that you, that you exist and have a brain and are able to reason. But I want to get at the

emotional aspect of pride. Because we're not arrogant and proud just because it's like an intellectual activity that we just do independent of our emotions. Pride feels good. Yeah. It makes you feel strong when you don't want to feel weak. Yeah. It makes you feel smart when you don't want to feel dumb.

It makes you feel like, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like there's an affection that we have. Yeah. It's an affection that we have. But it's also a way for us. us to, well, one, I think it's an affection that we have when we become like inward self like consumed, right? Because I know for me when I struggle with pride, it's the days when I stop looking

at Jesus and I'm only thinking about myself. I'm only thinking about how smart I appear. I only thinking about how much I have and how much I don't have or whatever. And then like even with Eve, like she had everything in the garden at her disposal she had like uh yeah everything but she she lost sight of what she had

because all she thought about is how she can become wise how she can become like God and I think that's what pride does yeah I think I'm about to get real deep okay I'm processing so if it doesn't make sense tell me that it doesn't make sense so I can explain it better

okay it's going to be one of those like high thoughts when people hide it. You know, when people get, how they get like those real, like crazy. I just want to get, I want to get underneath it.

That's that, so that's why it'll be deep. Because, you know, recently when I was, this is random, when I was having that conversation with Jasmine and Melissa

and I was like how I want to get a PhD but I don't know what it would be in. And it was like philosophy. It's like, really? It was like, everything you do is like philosophical. Yeah.

I was like, oh, you're right. Yeah, I think so. I like to understand things. So I think, I'm trying to be as plain as I can. I think,

pride makes us feel good because it makes us feel secure and being weak and being honest about that feels insecure. And one of the reasons it feels insecure is because people take advantage of weakness. Yeah. Right? I think... So what you're saying is like

if we can cling on to pride it kind of gives us like this sense of control that makes us feel secure secure and the lack of security is because we're not connected and united to the Lord yeah that's good or we're not drawing security from him and his spirit right because I'm pretty sure when sin was not in the world there were no insecurities therefore there was no reason to cling to pride and arrogance and conceit because it's like, oh, God loves me. That's good. God's going to take care of me.

That's really good. God sees me. God knows me. Like there was an anchoring that they had. But I think because sin is in the world, we feel so vulnerable. And so we try to find fig leaves to make us feel strong and they still can't sustain us. So for example, with me, one of, one of a big thing of pride for me is I can sometimes, not sometimes.

It is hard for me to show. emotion at times. And that's because as a first, as a two-year-old, a three-year-old, a four-year-old, a five-year-old, who was very emotive and very sensitive, people ridiculed me and bullied me and talked about me and took advantage of my honest displays of emotion. So now pride shows up and saying, I'm not ever going to be weak out loud because that makes me feel insecure. And so, I think where the humility shows up, it would be, Lord, you said that in my weakness, I am strong. And so you can't practice humility just by trying to be humble. You have to practice humility by finding safety and security in God that anchors the weaknesses that God actually wants you to display.

Does that make any sense? That makes a lot of sense. That makes a lot of sense. I feel like it doesn't. No, it does. That's my insecurity. No, it does make a lot of sense because I think that if if, if, if, if, And what's crazy is I don't know why when you were saying that my mind immediately went to the fall because you started off by saying that, you know, sin makes us, you know, makes us insecure. Yes. Insecurity.

So the affection that exists in pride is because it makes us feel safe. Makes us feel safe. But I think about Eve and when she's sending a guard, sin really didn't exist yet. until they after they sinned right and to after they they fall but i but i but but i but it made me think about the process and and what was satan's motive what was he trying to stir up in eve um i made me think about was he trying to stir up this insecurity and her like am i not like god right this this this this this this this this this feeling that he was right that that he wasn't enough and so even before the even before the even before seeing incidents of the world

Like the devil knew how to make somebody feel insecure. This is the thing. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait, wait. What people don't realize. So remember, I wrote a- Insecurity. I wrote a paper recently about prosperity teaching.

And in the paper, I basically was exploring the idea how prosperity teaching is appealing because it appeals both to our pride and to our shame. One thing we pay attention to is that in Genesis 3, we spend a lot of attention looking at the pride that that showed up in Adam and Eve, but we don't see how pride and shame are actually friends, right? So there was a shame that rose up in Eve where he's like, did God really say you can't eat? Like, does he really love you?

Yeah. Does he see you? Like, he's withholding something from you. What does that mean about how we love? You can understand. So there's this insecurity that rises up that then shows up in pride. That's good. And so I think another element of pride is dealing with our shame.

My God, dealing with the fact that we don't feel enough, right? So of course I have to have 16 degrees because I have to find some avenue by which somebody can say, you know what, you're worth it now. You're valuable now. That's good. Of course I have to find some type of value in my money for somebody to say, you know what? You're so smart. You're so disciplined because we just, we want somebody and we want something to restore our dignity. Yeah.

And so we try to find it in all these fig leaves when Jesus holds his hands out. as the humble one. Yeah. Saying no, die of your flesh, die of your sin, be united with me and I'm the one that gives you value.

Yeah. Which frees you from trying to find pride and security and all these other things that are fleeting. Right. So think about it. Think about how many jerks that we just look at as jerks

who their dignity was stripped away when they were young. And so they went, they pride drove them to being a jerk. How many atheists who a lot of probably, a lot of people probably told them when they were younger, they were dumb. And so it was like, no, I don't need God to tell me how the world works.

I have science, right? So pride drives us to absurd. We talked about pride, right? What about humility? Because I think humility is the answer to, like, not completely destroying pride. Our pride won't be completely gone until we get to heaven. But, like, what was your process in when you had to kind of embrace that you were a bribe? person in some ways and God really wanted you to embrace humility. How did that look like?

And what did it look like for you? I had to have people that called it out. Because pride is so natural to us that we don't see it as unnatural. Yeah. That's just how we live. That's how we exist. We're always defending ourselves, always protecting ourselves. I think there's a real, a reality that pride is. is like a, like a false savior. Like I want something to deliver me. But we want to deliver ourselves. And humility says, only God can get me out of this.

Yeah. Because he's the only one who's sufficient. And so I think for me, having people say, hey, Jackie, that was arrogant. Hey, that's a little ego. Yeah. Hey, that was this, you know. But I also think, I think even the way people can call out stuff can be pride. Oh, absolutely.

That's the irony of it. Yeah, yeah. And I think, I think a lot of times people want, like, I think there's so much false humility. My God. It's so ugly. That goes in the church because I think people try to bully people into humility. Notice how in the church, nobody is like the financial police or like stewarding your money police or like. like nobody polices you in the way that they police you in pride people call out pride more than any

other sin and i think a lot of times people are calling our pride not because they want to see you sanctify but because you kind of like awaken some insecurity in them sometimes right and so like if you walk in if you if you if you have this false humility right it makes a lot of times people feel more secure right and so i think for me when when I first became a Christian and God had to show me all the areas that I was pride for, I had the season where I was just walking around, like, trying to be the Christian that people wanted me to be, right? And God had to tell me, present, like, stop trying to avoid the appearance of pride and seek the reality of it, which means, like, really try to seek me to be humble,

to make you humble, right? And there are going to be people who look at your personality and look at the way you act or whatever. And because they don't even know what humility is themselves, they might say that you're prideful. But no, like truly try to seek to have a heart that pleases me that loves God and loves people. And so that's one of the things that I've learned. But I love the fact that Jesus came and showed us, you know.

And that's the thing that I love about the Christian faith the most is that we have a God who came and entered into human creation to literally embody what humility is. You know what I mean? That's the thing that I love about my savior. I have like 17 thoughts. You could just tell me which one you want me to do. Okay. Which one you want.

Which you got to give me options. Just say the second one and I'll pick one. Philippians 2 or. That one. My thought. That's your thought. Oh. One passage that helps me a lot is James 4.

where James 4 verse 6 but it gives more grace therefore it says God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble submit yourselves therefore to God resist the devil and he will flee from you when I first heard about

that verse it was kind of used in a unhelpful way I think in a very condemning way like you know God opposes the proud and resist but when I started to read it, when I started to read it with as if it were a promise, it changed things for me.

That's good. Because I started to read it like, God does oppose the proud because it's so antithetical to who he is. But he gives grace to the humble. And so I started to say, if I choose humility, there's grace there. You know, like, I think that that helped me to see, I might be losing my pride. I might be losing esteem. I might lose money. I might lose money. I might lose like like dying to yourself and dying the pride you're going to lose something but one thing I gain is grace yeah I gain God because that's the side he's on and so that's that's really incentivized humility when it's hard for me yeah because humility is hard for me that's good that's good and I and I think about what you just said and I think about like that God didn't really just

tell us that but he but he like literally showed us that because he literally went through the process of living as a man to show us what being humble can give you. Because Philippians 2, starting at the fifth verse, it says, let this mind being you, which was also in Christ Jesus, who though he was in the form of God, did not count equality of God, a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself by taking on the form of a servant and being found in the likeness of man in a human form. He became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. And then it goes on to say, therefore God has highly exalted him. him and bestowed upon him the name that is above every name,

that under the name of Jesus, all things on heaven, all things on earth, all things under earth, shall confess that Jesus Christ is glory to God, the Father. And I love that passage so much, and I always talk about it. If you follow me, you've always seen me talk about that. It's because, like, Jesus is literally displaying the process

of what living a humble life brings you, right? Right? He was equal with the Father. Like, he had equal rights. He had equal. position when it comes to like, you know, sharing the same nature as his father, God. But he took on the form of a servant and had to become obedient to God, obedience to Father, in ways that he wasn't before to serve the same people he created.

And God, and this is the reason why I says the Father then highly exalt him and gave him the name that it was above every name. So God won't exalt us and give us the name that is above every name. But it is to say that if we resist being pride and embrace humility, that God will exalt us. And so I think a lot of times when we just talked about that pride, we hold on to pride because we're trying to hold on to our feelings not getting hurt or hold on to not being taken advantage of it. It reminds me of those memes that you see those little cheesy memes where you got

a teddy bear and you're holding it real tight and God is like on one knee and he's. He got like a real big teddy bear behind you. And he's telling you to give him the little teddy bear so you can give you the big teddy bear. Yes. And that's what we do when we choose pride and I choose humility. Pride convinces us that if I let go of this, they're going to take advantage of me.

If I let go of this, God, women are going to think I'm weak. And my wife is going to take advantage of me. God, if I let go of this and just be submissive like you, like you said, like my husband is going to take advantage of me, right? But it's like, no, like, we're actually cheating ourselves out of so much that God want to give us by not choosing humility. Yeah, I think that the fact that we have a God who came to Earth to display that for us, who just didn't tell us. That's dope to me. Here's, here's an element of humility with the examples you just gave, because the Lord had to challenge me

with this. Let's say, you know, you don't want to apologize. So that's the pride. Humility says, is you might be right. They might take advantage of my weakness. They might take advantage of my humility. But one, God told me to do it. So I'm going to humble myself under his word. That's one. But two, do I trust him enough to sustain me even in the hurt?

You get what I'm saying? Because what pride wants to do is give, again, I think pride is a false savior. It says, let me trust. try to protect myself from pain. When God is often saying, why don't you trust me to protect you in it? Like, what about me? That's good. You get what I'm saying?

Like, am I not faithful? Am I not strong? Am I not good? Am I not powerful enough to not only sustain you in the pain, but give you character in it? So humility is working in two directions where I'm walking into a situation that makes me feel uncomfortable, makes me feel vulnerable, makes me feel weak to obey God, but I'm also trusting that even if everything I suspect might happen happens, is he not faithful? That's really good.

And so I think I've had to lean in that direction a lot when it comes to doing things that feel naturally scary so that I could try to look like Jesus. For sure. Yeah. Because I think with marriage, we got to apologize all the time. Yeah. humble ourselves all the time. All the time.

It's a really good example. Every day. It's good examples of how we can let go up pride and embrace humility in every relationship. But I think especially marriage. You know one way I've learned how to be humble by following like Jesus footsteps. Because I think when Ephesian says husbands love your wives, like Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her. That's humility. That's what he's displaying great.

great humility, right? And so, like, I think when we think about this idea that Jesus came to live a life that we can live and he came to die death that we couldn't, that we deserve to die, right? And he came to establish his church. And when we think about humility, right, Jesus came to live a life that we can live and he came to die death that we deserve, right? But, but he left. And now what we see as a representation of his glory is his church. We don't, we don't walk around seeing Jesus in the flesh right now. And I think that challenges that, well, that should challenge husbands. It challenged me. Even when we started our, our ministry and our marriage, we were known as poets, but you were the first person that got out there and did

books. You were the first person that got out there and did, you know, music or whatever. And I remember you writing your first book, Gay Girl, Good God, and me choosing to stay home and how hard it was for me, right? I was like, I have talents. I have gifts too. And I remember being, being disciplined by Brian and him challenging me to know, to look, to look at the fact that Christ is in one scene. His church is. And so how, how beautiful it is to model Jesus in that way. That's good. To allow your wife to be seen. And for you to be at home covering her, for you to be at home praying for her because I think a lot of times men struggle with that. Yeah, for sure.

Men struggle with this idea that man, like, my wife getting all to shine, my wife getting all this. And it's like, no, like, it's Jesus in heaven saying the church getting all the shine. Come on here. You looking at the church, but you got to look at me. It's like, no, like Jesus, like, like establishes church and he was like, I'm a show off. Right? And it's still a reflection of his leadership.

And so what the devil and what pride would tell you is the world's looking at my wife. The world ain't looking at me. But it's like, no, like if you are a good leader and you are a humble leader, you should know that your wife flourishing is a reflection of your leadership. That's what humility tells you. Yeah, yeah. Right. That's what humility should tell you. But pride says, they're looking at her and not looking at me.

And it's like, how much are you not being like Jesus in that case? I was done. Philippians 2 says, so if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the spirit, any affection and sympathy, complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accordion of one mind. Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, right? But in humility, count others more significant than yourselves. That's good. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ, Jesus. Who, though, he was in the form of God, not kind of God. I say that because you have to pay attention to one of the word Paul uses. Paul uses. He says, but inhumility, count, consider others,

more significant in yourselves, meaning humility takes, it's a hard issue, but it's also a consideration issue. I have to do the work of thinking of people differently. Yeah, that's good. And I have to do the work of thinking of myself, differently. So if I walk into a room, I'm saying to myself, I'm Jackie Hill Perry. I deserve to do this. I deserve to do. No, no, no. If I start to think I'm a servant, like what would that do to meditate

on the idea I'm a servant? I'm made in the image of God. I'm here to exalt God's glory. I'm here to reflect him. Then that already starts to like make my heart move in a certain way which shows up in my behavior. Yeah. Versus, I think false humility says I'm going to act humble. Yeah. And so I'm going to put on this like false meekness and I'm going to, I'm going to talk like, like I hate what people, you know, glory be to God. I don't want none of the glory. Yes, you do. Stop lying.

It's more humble to say, you know what, I want all the glory. I want all the honor. But I'm submitting that to the Lord Jesus Christ. That's good. That's actually humility because it's embarrassing. Yeah, yeah. That's good. But also, too, what that shows me and what I thought about is like humility, true humility.

kind of ushers us into servinghood and not necessarily lip service. Because I think a lot of times we can- Break that down, sir. Because I think when we look at Philippians 2-5, right, it says let this mind being you, right? And so in the same way Jesus was, let this same mind being you, who was in the form of God, right? Did not count equality with God of things to be grasped, which means he had something, he had something, but he was willing to let it go, right? And so, for example, you say, I come in a room, I can say, I'm Jackie Hill Perry, right?

Which is crazy. That's so arrogant. It's so arrogant, right? But the reality is, I think I said this before in the pockets, but the reality is, because you have some type of esteem, because I have some type of esteem in certain circles, right? People would esteem us. People would give us things that they don't give other people. And so instead of coming in and trying to look humble with lip service, you're saying it's

other ministers around here. How can I serve them in a way? how can I let go of some of my Jackie Hill privilege rights to serve other ministers who don't have this thing? Because that's literally what Jesus did. He had equal. He was equal with his father. But when he became a man, he left those rights go. Now, notice he didn't stop being God. But he let go of his rights as God to serve the same people he created. And so that's what true humility does. It us us into servanthood. It's like, how can I use? use whatever privilege, whatever smarts, whatever talents,

whatever skills I have and that I'm esteemed for, how can I use that to serve people who don't have these skills, who don't have these talents, so they can one day have these skills. And let me add another level to that, another level to that. You serve with God as the reference point for who you're trying to get approval from. That's good. Because it's also a sinister temptation of pride.

I'm going to serve. so y'all see I'm serving. I'm going to serve so that y'all are, look at her, just serving all the cakes and the tress letches and all the things. Like the people who's praying outside the synagogue and, you know, and letting people know that they're fast. And it's like, no, God's said, wash your face. Religious pride is a nasty pride.

Yeah. Because it has a form of godliness. It has the appearance of godliness, but it denies its power. So if we want to authentically practice humility in our servanthood, we serve with God as the reference point. That's good. Remember Eve, she thought independently of God.

She moved independently of God. So humility says, you know what? I'm a serve God because you said so. And you see me. You know a text that really got to me. I don't know where it's at. It's probably Mark where Jesus turns the water to wine. Or is that Matthew?

It's his first miracle. Yeah. I think it's in multiple gospel. You got to be marked. John, Jesus had the people, bring the water back. He didn't turn it into wine, okay? Verse 9. When the master of the feast tasted it, tasted the water, now become wine,

and did not know where it came from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew, the master of the feast called the bridegroom. Notice he ain't called Jesus. He called the bridegroom and said to him, everyone serves the wine first, and when people have drunk freely, then the poor wine, but you have kept the good wine until now.

That's why we know the wine was strong. So people were like, oh, that was real, that was real strong wine because that sentence just told you. Jesus has just done a miracle at these people's wedding. And he allowed someone else to get the glory for the work he did. That's the kind of savior we serve, right? Yeah. Like that he would sit in the room and I say, hey, no, no, I turned that into wine. That was, that was me.

He just sat there. And I think I think he was so content in the fact that the father knows him and the father sees him. Because shortly after this, when Jesus is anointed or when Jesus is baptized, what does God say? This is my son with whom I am well pleased. That's all the affirmation he needed. Yeah. He was very secure in his place, right? And so I think, I don't know.

I think all of that matters. That's really good. That made me think about something because I've seen a lot of people on social media. Oh, boy. No, seriously. I've seen a lot of people like, and this is, this isn't, this isn't, this isn't, this isn't trying to be bogus. This is like a, a real light rebuke.

But it's a little, it's a real light one. Okay. But I think people have to think about that perspective because I've seen a lot of people get judged for doing stuff or wearing certain stuff or being a certain way. And I think a lot of times people want to see humility. They want to, they want to see people walking in it. And they want to see signs of humility. to be comfortable to rock this person.

And I think it's a lot of judgment. But it's like how much have you seen people get attacked because they're not, they're doing what Jesus did, right? They're acting in humility and they're not telling the world about it. They're doing it in secret. And so I think that just lets us know that we shouldn't be so quick to try to be the pride police in other people's lives because God rewards those who, humbly seek him in private.

And so I think a lot of times people can get attacked for actually being like Jesus. I don't know why my mind went there. No, that took me to this C.S. Lewis quote that I want to read. He's talking about humility. He says, do not imagine that if you meet a really humble man, he will be what most people call humble nowadays. He will not be a sort of greasy, smarmy person who is always telling you that he is nobody. Probably, all you will think about him is that he seemed to

cheerful, intelligent chap who took a real interest in what you said to him. If you do dislike him, it will be because you feel a little envious of anyone who seems to enjoy life so easily. He will not be thinking about humility. He will not be thinking about himself at all. That's good. Which is to say that humility is unassuming. It is. It's not loud. It's not boastful. It doesn't wear red shoes and bright ties. Like humble people can sometimes be unnoticeable people. Yeah. Because they're okay with being in the room and not being noticed. Yeah.

And it's unnoticedable to a lot of us, even myself, because we were born in sin. Yeah. And shaped an iniquity. And so when humility is before us, a lot of times we don't recognize unless somebody operating in it in a false way. And so real humility, I think, takes time to even recognize, which is, that's really good. That's a great coat. I want to close by saying

you hungry. You heard my stomach? Wow. I was like, dang, I heard it. But that sound like a tight way. Because it felt like my whole body growl. No, it was loud. I've been thinking about food for the last 10 minutes. You got subs in your stomach. Um, I think as someone who struggles with pride, everybody does, I'll just say what what helps me. And I'll use this example that I used even in our podcast with Eric Mason because I really want to articulate it. I remember there was a time where I was about to teach and I was about to teach at this event that probably

had like 7,000 people and I felt nervous and excited but I had this desire to please people and to be impressive. Yeah. And pride would lead me to just act like that ain't really in my heart. You know what I'm saying? And just like use this preaching and use this sacred time to gas myself and to feel good about myself and to restore the dignity that I lost when people told me I was nothing. Right.

That's what pride would move me to do. But by God's grace and just with wise counsel, I chose confession. That's good. And so backstage, I was like, Lord, I, I am tempted to use this moment to steal your glory because it feels good. It feels satisfying and it feels safe. Yeah. So help me.

Right. And so what I say that because I don't want us to take from this podcast or this conversation that, okay, I just got to be humble. No, no, no. Like, yes, you have to be humble, but invite God into that and have him help you. Yeah. He's ready to help you even in that. Like he is our great high priest.

He sympathized. Like, he know how arrogant you are. He, he know how nasty you can be. He know how private. He know you don't like to apologize nobody. He know you don't like to humble yourself. He know you started that podcast because you insecure. He know you writing that book because you want glory and fame.

He know you pastoring, not because you're called to it because you think that that's going to restore your value and your dignity for you to have a flock, right? He knows that about you. That's so. But he sent the Savior to die to. to rise from the dead and to feel all those who would come with the Holy Spirit to give you the power to be humble like him. He knows it about you. And so don't be so prideful as to think you can even save yourself from your own pride. You can. It's impossible. You need his help.

And so I think I think Jesus says, come. Come all who are weary and heavy laden. And I will give you rest. Pride is a heavy burden to carry. Yeah, it is. And you just preach the whole sermon. I just kind of want to end with this. Not only does quick confession, because I think the quick at the confession is, the fast that God can help you will help. I think a lot of times our inability to remember, like causes us to adopt pride and not humility. I remember just real quick story. I remember when we were doing poetry, it was kind of like in the height of our poetry ministry, whatever. And we were invited to this rhetoric event every year where it was largest Christian-spoken word poetry event, you know, in the world. And I remember I made a name for myself. And,

I remember, I think it was the second and third rhetoric or whatever. I think I did Dear Mike Brown or something like that. And I remember going on that stage in front of 3,000 people. And I remember like being in the audience and when the pose that wasn't as recognizable got on stage, I remember the chatter that was in the crowd, like as if people didn't really know them and so they didn't care. And I remember walking on a stage today and it was me, the whole crowd got silent. And I remember feeling. so gassed.

I remember feeling so tight. I remember feeling like I had so much control. And so much like, man, like, it was like, felt powerful. It felt powerful. Just to be quick, like 100, it felt powerful. And I remember God still being gracious enough to allow me to kill that poem that day. Wow.

That was grace. Yeah. I did a really good job. But I remember feeling myself for a good couple of months. couple of months. I was, I was feeling my son. I went back to Chicago. Came back from LA like, man, like y'all poise ain't traveling out of the country. Oh, that's crazy. Yeah. Like, I remember feeling that way. Fast forward a couple weeks later, I'm in a small open mic, a prominent open mic that you can't go in be whack in Chicago. And I remember I got on the

stage, feeling confident, not nervous at all. Got on the stage, forgot my whole poem. Like when I tell you, I don't know, I don't know. I don't know. what happened. I slept good that night. I was rested. Like literally, I couldn't think of one word and I was so embarrassed. And I remember going home and the Lord was like, not only did I give you that gift, but I gave you that mind and I can take it. I can take it. Nebuchadnezzar. Right. And so I think being humble is just remembering the source of why you have everything. It's just like we are because, Because we are a sinful falling creation, right?

We're a forgiftful one. Yeah. And so just remembering that God has given me everything, he can take it away. We'll help you embrace humility. Amen. Back. Thanks and peace. That's good.

With the Parys is produced by the Parys with support from Amanda Reed and Channing McBride, video recording and audio production by Kim Powell, Abashai Perez, and Xavier Fairley. edited by the team at Tread Lively, artwork by Hop and Music by Swoop. Thank you for listening. Now go with God.