With The Perrys - Sage, Witchcraft, and Discipleship (Patreon Q&A)

Episode Date: September 5, 2022

For the final episode of the season, we're answering questions from our Patreon Saints. They wanted to know if Jackie disciples people she doesn't know, our thoughts on witchcraft, and more. Subscribe to the Perrys' newsletter: https://withtheperrys.myflodesk.com/zhfus4jx1s Join Preston's discipleship community for men: https://www.patreon.com/PrestonPerry/membership To support the work of the Perrys, donate via PayPal: https://paypal.me/withtheperrys Shop BOLD Apparel: boldapparel.shop Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There you are. Hey, Sainte, Names. Welcome to the last episode of season four, 30 Minutes with the Perrys. Please don't weep because Christ is risen. And we'd be back. You know that song? Another quittles. You love us in the morning.

You danced to that song on Instagram. Huh? Where, uh, don't cry. Christ has risen. Yeah. Yeah. I was kind of embarrassed when Tammy Franklin was like, I'm going to show this to my husband. No, she did.

And I was like, it was the raggedy. He said her saying my life. Kirk Franklin's going to see me like imitating him wrongly. Okay. Have you enjoyed recording this season? I have. Why? I could look at your beautiful face, your little Persian eyes and, you know, pretty brown skin.

Okay. So we. Looking like a beautiful stain of coffee. We're part, stain. Anytime you use stain as an adjective to describe somebody, that was a bad, that's just not ever going to work. That was a bad adjective. You might as well say it blot.

That was a bad adjective. I apologize. A beautiful drop of coffee. Drop. Drop. So a little modicum. You're such a small piece of leather, but you so well put together. We're on Patreon.

I tell Jackie she's beautiful every day. And because we're on. She just looks at me like I'm a nuisance. We're on Patreon. And because we're on Patreon, we have like this. You're so beautiful. Stop. Okay, I'm stop.

So we're on Patreon. And I wrote to all the Patreon Saints. It was like, hey, we're going to answer y'all questions live on the podcast, ask us some questions. So that's what we're going to do. We're going to do a quick little Q&A or whatever. I love when you talk hood. That's what we're going to do.

I love it. It reminds me when I first made. You're so distracted. It just reminds me when I first met you. You need Adderall right now. A sap. Okay. First question.

Miracle said, hey, Jackie, would you disciple me? Laf emoji, laugh emoji. I'm halfway joking. No. No. And this is why. This is why. Discipleship, I believe, is something that is best had in community, right?

So there is discipleship aspects to what we both do, right? Like when I'm leading, when I'm teaching a sermon or even this conversation, it's useful and it can bear fruit in your life in so far as you apply it and believe the word and all the things. But real authentic discipleship, I believe, is like what Jesus had with the disciples where they was with this man. Absolutely. Yeah, because literally, like, when we think about discipleship historically, we have to understand it, like, that was how, you know, people learned from their rabbis, which was teachers back in the day.

It's like, typically they didn't learn from people by, like, you know, looking at them on a stage, teaching or whatever, or meeting at a coffee shop or whatever and going over a couple of scriptures. It's like, no, like most rabbis in that day, like John the Baptist, he had, disciples who followed him. And when John the Baptist saw Jesus walking past one day and his disciples, they said, like, Jesus, where are you staying? They didn't act in that because they

wanted to see his house. They literally was like, no, we want to see how you live to learn from you. And so I think to want to be disciple by somebody who you don't have close proximity with, it's not even realistic. You know what I'm saying? And I don't think this is the way God

intended it to be. It's possible. I don't think real discipleship. No, so what we do is we still influence and disciples people in a way. I think deep discipleship. That's what I'm talking about. Deep discipleship. Yeah, requires some proximity.

For one, you don't know my life, right? And so you're even asking the question based on who you perceive me to be according to pictures, videos, and my words. But real discipleship is when you get up close to Jackie and say, oh, like this is actually how she treats her husband. This is actually how she responds to her children. This is actually how she spends her time. You know what I'm saying?

Because discipleship isn't just what I'm able to articulate. It's also what I'm able to model. Yeah. And so I'm not, I'm, I'm, I've moved on from critiquing you. No, no, I know. I wasn't going to say, I wasn't going to critique you. I'm just saying, like, I think that even when Jesus was, was like, discipling his disciples, I think that it was people that that gleaned from him when he, like,

taught on the sermon of the Mount and stuff like that. Right. But I think that when you have close proximity to a person and you can learn from somebody, I think that just changes the game when you can see how they love their wife, how they love their spouse, how they respond to their neighbor. I think that's when you get to the nitty gritty of discipleship. And when you're disciplining folks in person, you can actually see how they live, right? Yeah.

Because when it's just on Zoom or email or whatever the case may be, you could be like, oh yeah I've been in my word and I've been praying and I've been fasting but when I'm able to actually watch you for two hours and see your attitude you know what I'm saying and see like little things about you that needs to to be addressed it just it just makes it all the more uncomfortable but that much more fruitful yeah so praise God that is a no um let's see Dydra Diedra Or is it Dear Drey

I'm thinking it's Diedra I'm just saying Dear Drey Dear Drey I don't know So D D Parker Says how do you view God in creativity If I were to reword it or rephrase it

They probably mean you know When it comes to being creative How do you see God in it Or how do you seek God for it? Maybe Yeah, God and creativity. God and creativity. I don't know.

I think it's beautiful when we look in the scriptures. The first thing that we see about God is that he is a creator. You know, God created the earth. You know, God created man in his image. And so I think one of the first things that we should think about in being created in the Amago Day is that, no, God, you know, has made all of us creative because we are a reflection of him. him and so I don't know if the question is well it's really for you so for me when it comes to being

creative the way I see God in it is really what you said is one believing the truth that God himself is creative yeah and if God himself is creative then he can make me creative too but I think what's really helpful for people I remember when we lived in Chicago one person that used to be around us all the time since all of us were like poets she wasn't a So she used to feel like she wasn't an artist. Like she wasn't creative. But it's like you don't have to be musical or draw or do poetry to be creative. Like if you got a, if you do spreadsheets, you know, if you're real good with Excel, like there's a way to be creative in the way you even do stuff administratively.

I be sending them emails. That's what I'm saying. Like that's a creative gift too. And so that's one thing is to say like God ain't playing favorites. when it comes to gifting people with the ability to be creative. Yeah, and also, too, I think for the Christian who is exploring their creativity is to not settle with just talking about Jesus and thinking that's good enough. Because I think when we first started to do poetry and we first started to get into these creative spaces,

we took being a child of God as a challenge and saying, man, there's no way that someone who doesn't have the Holy Spirit should be operating in their creativity more. Share that big cave. So we wanted to go in spaces and do poetry and secular spaces and talk about Jesus, but we want our writing to be just as good as any secular poet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Having the mindset that when I go in this space, I want to be great. You know, I'm saying because I was created by somebody great and I served somebody that's great. And so I think that we should have that mindset.

We should want to kill. You know what makes it. What makes creativity very hard is. What's the word? Comparison. Because... John Demand Reynolds, comparison kills. When you think that your kind of creativity is not creative enough.

Yeah. Then you actually weaken your ability to be creative. Because the whole thing about being creative is you being you. Like I said this on Instagram, it's like the way that God made you, the way that you think, the way that you've been nurtured, the way you see the world, the way you talk, the way you talk, the way you. move, the friendships you have, the way you look at the Bible, all of that informs your ability to be creative because it means that you are a complete, like, you are a whole person that is completely distinct from everybody that exists on the earth. And you know why comparison robs us so much.

Please tell me. Because it prevents, like, the greatest artist in the world, the reason why they were able to be celebrated around the world is because they did a great job of inviting people into their mind. They explained. Right. in So Bosciat, right? Oh, you think he's the greatest?

No, I'm just saying, I'm just throwing out of artists out there. But I'm just saying, like, artists who are creative, like, you know when you're not inviting people into the way you think, but you're borrowing from somebody else and trying to, like, operate up somebody else's creativity and vision. And so, like, I think the greatest artist, like, they're sharing a reflection of who they are. And so I think when you compare yourself to somebody,

it's like you rob yourself of the God, giving creativity that God is putting you because you're looking at their creativity. And so, like, you know, like, I think that's when we was traveling with the Poet's and Ardentor. I think that's what made it special. It's because I couldn't say metaphors like Jeanette. And I couldn't do double entendres.

Like Ezekiel. And I couldn't, you know, do as many metaphors in one sentence like you. But I can tell stories well. Right. You know? And so we all had that thing that made us us. And I think that's what made it beautiful.

you know what I'm saying that's beautiful so I would add this because now we're on this this this uh soapbox pray for it we be praying for everything else we be praying you know that God sent us a spouse that God will give us a job but just like no like if you're a writer you're a singer you or whatever sit down and ask God to help you be creative straight up and literally every time I write a book or a sermon I am asking God to help me be creative, literally. And you don't even think to ask that for a sermon. But I say, no, like, God help me approach the text and articulate it in a way that is creative and winsome and solid,

but creative so that I'm able to bring out things in the text that people are used to that they may not have heard or seen in that way. Like, it takes creativity to do that. And God is able to give us that power. If we would just ask him up. Amen. Marissa Krausen said, how do you close the gap between what you say you believe about God and how you actually live your life? Application.

For example, it's how. Like, how I believe the gospel, but how I spend my time, what I worry about what's important to me, shows that I don't quite trust God. Like I say, I do. Excellent question. It is a good question. You want to take it first for me? Man, I think for me, um,

me applying what I know really boils down to, I feel in the times where I don't apply what I know is that those are the times I have a problem with believing that God is like truly who he says he is in my life. And this is what I mean. I think that the more secure I become in God in whatever area in my life, I can, I, I, then, I'm not. then able to apply what I read and what I know and I'm not as anxious and I'm not as fearful and I'm not as sinful in those seasons. Does that make sense? Yes. And so I think that like really truly like because it's one thing about like knowing things right and in reading things but it's another thing

when it comes to like believing things and I think that we have this overall arching belief of God. But sometimes our belief in who he is waivers. And I I think that my application begins to waver when I just start to believe that maybe, you know, God isn't going to show up or God isn't going to be with me or God isn't going to, you know, I don't know, show up in my life the way he did in other seasons. And so I think for me it's like the book of Deuteronomy is so great because the whole book is really encouraging them to remember. I think we lose faith.

and in those times and losing faith we have a hard time applying what we know because we simply don't remember the God of the past and so because we don't remember the God of the past it doesn't propel us to like trust in the God in the future and in the present so that's from me I think one element of the problem

is that we don't know what belief we don't know what belief is right and so you have jesus who says you know you believe believe that god is one the demons believe that too so there is a kind of faith that doesn't actually change behavior it's only an uh uh an an acknowledgment of a truth yeah right so i can acknowledge that god is one but his trinity doesn't actually change how I live my life or how I pray or how I study until I treat it as true. Yeah.

Right? And so I think that has to be the way we define belief is I have to treat this as reality. Yeah. So Paul says, lay your life down as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable unto God. That's the coming in on day. I think the way. You didn't like my fake tongue? To treat that text as true is to believe that God is the Lord of my body.

If I treat that as true, then it's like, no, like my body is his. My body was made for him. My body is useful to him. My body can be, yeah, that it would be glorified one day, all the things. And so what that does is it informs all of my relationships now. So if I meet a dude that's like, hey, let's smash. Nope. My body belongs to the Lord.

smash my buddy like smash mean sex yes i know somebody's looking at a dictionary what is smash me so treating that as true immediately determines or changes how i live my life because it just it rules everything you know what i'm saying and so i don't know that i really feel like i overcomplicated that no it was actually really good but that's i try to be as practical as i as i possibly could but i also think that a really a practice or a discipline that we need to develop is when we see ourselves responding in a way that is unbiblical interrogating that. So not to the point of shame and hopelessness because there's a kind of inward interrogation that actually leaves you more discouraged because the enemy comes inside that it accuses you.

But I think there's a healthy interrogation that says, huh, I know what the Bible says, but I'm responding this way, why? Yeah. And I think underneath that is where you can start to find some things about God that you actually don't believe it's true. You just know it is in the Bible. And that's the reason why the New Testament, God calls us to test ourselves a lot.

Like test yourself to see if you really in the faith. Test yourself. You know, putting false profits among you to test you. And so like I think that we have to continue to test ourselves and be real with ourselves and be like, man, I'm responding to this particular thing in this way. Why? You know what I'm saying?

and then let me take it to the Lord. Yep. And he's good. He is good. The Holy Spirit really does. Next question. Help us. All right.

So there were two questions, one by Leah, one by Irvina, I suppose, that deals with people dealing with, like, occult practices or new age spirituality. And so I guess if you had a friend who, you know, is burning a sage all the time, at crystals, or, like, you know, there's a rise. and black women embracing witchcraft and tarot cards and like yeah how do we what are we supposed to think about that well one thing that i'll say for people who are dealing with friends who are dealing with these quote-unquote new things to know that it's not new when when the bible says nothing new on the sun like you know it's just repeated sins done it in different ways but it's really nothing new

I mean, the Bible and, you know, the early church dealt with things like mysticism and all kind of, you know, sorcery and rich craft, even in, you know, in Jesus' day and before Jesus' day. And so to know it's nothing new. And so, like, the devil really doesn't create. He just perverts. And so he's always going to try to find something new to pervert and, you know, presented to a people and make them think that they have explored something new that the world isn't up on. And he's just deceiving people out here. And so with that being said, though, I think that when we deal with people who are in this new age, witchcraft, when it's low-key, a lot of this stuff is just witchcraft. No, hockey.

Yeah. Demonic. I ain't saying if you burn sage, you a witch, though. No. A lot of it is. I'm just saying you might have learned it from some witches. Yeah. Yeah.

What? because we got to recognize it's seasoning okay yeah we put this in dressing it it flavors it and it's not it's not changing energy yeah you know what changes energy prayer yeah i just don't want the people to think that the actually the sage is what's evil the heart it's the heart it's the golden calf was not evil put this in your dressing we are already it's already inflation you know how much sage probably gonna cost come november And you were burning it? You don't even smell good.

I can't even think of the word sage when I think about our one year old. Yeah, go ahead. Okay, but yeah, what was I going to say? You didn't get me off my little. I'm so sorry. No, what I was going to say was, I think that we have to understand that a lot of times sin creates other sin. And so I think what the devil does is, and when I'm saying this, I'm thinking about a lot of black women who have ventured in to this, you know. I think what Satan does, he takes a lot of times the oppression of sometimes

a people, and instead of them running to Jesus, he gives them another idol to run to. And so I think a lot of women that I've talked to out in the streets, they are tired of being powerless. And so I think that a lot of these new age religions and, you know, this witchcraft gives them a door to gain some of a type of autonomy and power. And it's just not black women. I think it's just all people. I think that these, that these, that these new age religions and this stuff creates in them, you know, their own sense of like being their own God, you know, when it's really just,

you're not, you're being really deceived by the devil. And so I think a way to deal with people like that is to, one, empathize with what, you know, what drove them to that place in the first place. So I think that if we only deal with the issue at hand and say, man, what you're doing this wrong? What you're doing this wrong. And they're just going to look at you like a Christian who just wants them to stop doing what they're doing. But, you know, a couple of, you know, months back, me and my videographer, Ken, we talked to a woman who worshipped our ancestors. And instead of being over the head with scripture, I wanted to talk about what drove her to believe these things in the first place.

Like, what drove her to it? And then when you got to the nitty-gritty, you saw that it was molestation. saw that it was the church abandoning her. You saw that it was her mom not believing her when she said this. She was molested. You saw that it was deep, deep hurt. And so I think what she did was she ran to something that she felt like she could control. And I think that's the way that dealt with deceives people over and over again.

These people fail you. These people let you down. I have something better, aka I have something demonic that would destroy you. And so I think that we have to recognize what drove people to these things in the first place. Yeah, witchcraft started in the garden. when when eve and adam decided to get power apart from god's will and i i really do believe that that's at at the root of it but i actually feel like some of the responsibility is on the church because we are a church full of the holy spirit right uh able to walk in all kinds of power

but if people don't see that that power is accessible to them then obviously they're going to go where they see the power is available at. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And false power. Even Lisa, but power all the same. Yeah. It's not power to overcome sin, but it is power to change non-eternal circumstances because

demons are, they have powers. It's limited. But like Lisa Fields was talking to this girl on her, uh, Jew three, uh, courageous conversation situation. And she said that the, the way that she got into African spiritualism is that her, uh, her boyfriend or somebody had died. And she was seeing him, like, seeing him in her room and having, like, these visions of dead people and stuff.

And she went to the church. And she went to some of the elders that she knew. It was like, hey, this is what's happening to me. And they was like, no, you're just sad. You just grieving. Like, ain't nothing going on. But then she was introduced to, like, this group of, like, African spiritualists who were helped that gave her language and validated her experience

with seeing these spirits. or whatever you, whatever may have you. So now she's not a Christian. She's not in the church. She's in this realm because somebody validated the fact that there is a spiritual reality at play, that it is scaring me. I need something to do with it. But when you got Christians that are so afraid of the supernatural,

why are you surprised when they're going to find supernatural means to handle natural stuff? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And so I think a part of it is not just being so so theologically astute that we have actually miss the supernatural aspect of our faith. We literally serve a resurrected Lord. That's supernatural. He literally said that our bodies and our souls are going to meet in the resurrection.

That's supernatural. We literally have a Holy Ghost that we cannot see. That's supernatural. You got people praying and being led by the Spirit and saying things about people's lives that they would not otherwise know. That's supernatural. So you can keep reading the Bible all you want. But if you're not tapping into the supernatural, you can't even discern it right.

So let's not. You set a mouth full. I did. It's good, though. So any Kenworthy, that sounds like somebody made up your last name. Like they say, you know what? I don't want to be Jenkins no more. I like Ken.

I think he's worth a lot. So we're going to be Kenworthy. She said any advice on how to make the most of therapy. I'll go first because you've been going first to all the questions. I'm the head, Anna. Because you've been stepping all into like, I've been like, oh, I'm going to say this. And then I have to come up.

for something else. I'll be saying what she's going to say. Yeah, literally on the witchcraft question. I was like, okay, what's another rabbit hole I can go down? But anywho, that's a really good question because I realized over the last two years, I know some people that be talking about, they go into therapy all the time and they're still toxic. It's like, what is your therapist saying to you?

Like, do they not see what I see? Like, why they're not addressing this issue? And so I realized that there is a way to engage in therapy that actually don't even do nothing for you. What do you think it is? Do you think it's them not being honest in therapy? Well, one, you're paying this person. So you picking the therapist because some people are so addicted to self-deceit that they will

get a therapist that won't even help them just so they can have a therapist. Ooh, just so they can. You just want them to affirm you and tell you like the surface level. issues that you already know that you had. And when I let us get to the root. And low key, when I first, when we first started talking about therapy, which was a couple years back, it wasn't as cool. I think, I think going to therapy is kind of a new way.

It was kind of like, oh, yeah, I'm taking care of my mental health girl. I'm going, you know what I'm saying? It's like, but are you? It's like, are you though? Like. Because you still toxic. So. And, and toxic people, it's a process.

No, it is a process. but it's some stuff that's like basic. It's like you're a terrible friend. Like it don't, how much therapy does one need to become a better friend? I just, I just don't understand.

So I think one way to make the most of therapy is actually to be honest with yourself about the kind of therapist you pick. Yeah. Because there are some therapists that will coddle you. There are some therapists, like I know an individual who their bent is manipulation, right?

And their therapist coddles them in such a way that I don't even think the therapist sees that the person is manipulating them even in the answers that they give them. Does it make sense? Yeah. And so I think there's a level of like honesty and integrity that you have to have in who you decide to counsel you in that way. I think another thing is therapy cannot be your only therapy or a therapist cannot be your only therapy. So what I mean is having a therapist is great, but talking through what you and your therapists are discussing within community with people that know you outside of the office is helpful to.

Absolutely. Because they'll be able to actually go deeper or exposed or add color to the conversation that you and your therapist has. Yeah. Another thing is you talk about honesty. I mean, honest in the therapist that we pick. But I think that before that, I think that we have to make it up in my mind that we're going to be honest with ourselves before we are honest with our therapist.

Because I think that when some years back when you was telling me I need therapy, I need therapy and he was in therapy for some years and I was like I don't need therapy as long as you get therapy we're gonna be good and then when you finally convinced me it was I was deceived yeah and when you're arrogant too but when you it's my past sins I didn't let that go no I was I was speaking all 1600 men who think that their wives need therapy and they don't yeah yeah yeah but go ahead but when you when I finally went to therapy. I made it upon in my mind that I'm going to be honest, completely honest, when I go

and sit down with this therapist. Because if I don't, I'm going to waste my time and my money. And so like, it's hard, you know, but like, don't go into therapy with your mind made up. Then I'm going to give half-truth. That I'm going to leave this exposed and not expose this. It's like if you're going to do it, be all the way in. And I think that it might be hurtful, painful, but I think at the end you will benefit.

And so you know, a couple deterrents to being honest with yourself, I think is, I just, just came to my mind with you talking, is, sorry, if you're a people pleaser. Because I've had times in therapy where I even want to please my therapist. You know what I'm saying? And so that kind of gets in the way of my vulnerability because I want to impress you instead of being. Honest. Yeah, like, and it's not even that I'm lying, is that I'm not exposing. I'm not being willing to be as weak in front of you as possible because I'm afraid to be there.

That was my thing, you know, and my, and gratefully, we got a good therapist, but she was just like, you've been, you've been being tough your whole life. And you've been hiding stuff your whole life. It's so much in you. Look at the way your shoulders is. And she was like, I don't like that. I don't like that. I'm like, why you got to point out my body language? And so, yeah, a good therapist can bring that out.

They'll see it. They'll see it and they'll expose it in time. But I was going to say underneath that is also shame. Shame is a really uncomfortable feeling. And so to be honest with yourself is to have to deal with the fact that you're not as perfect or as beautiful or as wonderful or as smart or as or as overcoming as you think that you actually are. facts and so but that's okay because that's honesty that's where humility is yeah is when we actually embrace reality reality as it is but also reality about ourselves and that's how we grow up is being

like oh i do suck right so what yeah so ashley rayley said have you experienced a season where you just didn't feel close to god after you had been saved and if so how did you navigate that season I think I've told this story before, but I think the thing that pops up to me the most is a year after being a Christian, their first year I was just on fire for the Lord. And I often told the story about how after that year, I feel like I gave up so many things, you know, secular music, smoking weed, all of these things. But the sin that I kept falling in was fornication. I just couldn't stop, you know, finding myself in bad situations with women. And I fell into a deep depression. And it got to the point where I didn't believe that I was a Christian because I couldn't

overcome this particular sin. And I kind of went back into the world. And then I got challenged by the dude who disciple me to really just seek the Lord and pray. And, yeah, and I was just honest with the Lord. I think me being in that place, I, I, I'm looking back now, I see that I love the Lord and I was convicted over that sin. I just couldn't conquer it. And I remember just being honest with the Lord and saying, Lord, I can't defeat this particular sin.

I'm trying, I'm trying, I'm trying and all of that. And I prayed and asked the Lord to reveal to me if I was really in him. And he did so by just doing something very small by allowing me to see a fight online. And I begin to weep at the computer for this dude who was, you know, getting beat up. And I was like, oh, I've been seeing crazy stuff on my life. Why am I crying? And the Lord kind of spoke to my heart. It was like, that's because your heart is new.

And it just, you know, revitalized me. And from there, I've always kind of had that same motto when I fall into seasons where I'm not like on fire. It's just going to be completely honest with God. I'm just completely honest. Like, God, I do not want to spend time with you. Help me. You know what I'm saying? And because the thing about God is that we need help from God to obey God.

We need help from God. That's the whole God. We need help from God to love God. And so I think a lot of times when we don't feel like that, we don't feel that love. We try to muster it up from somewhere else. And it's like, no, actually to love me more, you have to come to me for it. You know what I'm saying? And so like I'm just really, I'm just honest and just real with God.

Like, God, I don't feel like waking up talking to you. and God is a he's a he's mature way more mature than us and I think that he can deal with it he can take it and he can help us you know two reasons uh people might feel distant from God it's one there's idolatry or two there's immaturity yeah idolatry is there's some sin in your life and because of that sin your heart isn't as soft as it used to be your conscience isn't as soft as it used to be. You've just kind of made a lot of excuses for little sin, but it's the little leaven that leaven is the whole lump. It's the little foxes that we have to watch out for. And I think Christians miss how important it is to maintain a sensitive heart, meaning like

to never just make any provision for the flesh. They don't mean we make mistakes, but I think deliberately and continuously turning away from God in small, minor decisions, makes us less likely to sense his presence or his call or, you know, or even care about what we read in the scriptures, our worship with a full inflamed heart. And so I think that that's important is that we need to get to the root of, man, do I have some idols in my life that I've been holding on to that's keeping me from sensing or like feeling near to God? But I think on the other end, there's also immaturity. And I got that from Tim Keller because Tim Keller said, you know that you're a mature Christian when you don't need to feel close to God to know you're close to God.

And it has to get to a point where I know what I know even if I don't feel it, right? Like I have to know that God is everywhere. I have to know that God has filled me. I have to know that God loves me. I have to know that there is nothing in heaven on the earth that will keep me from God, that he is with me and will never leave me nor forsake me. That's reality. It don't always feel like that, right?

And so I think if you feel that in marriage all the time. No, that's real talk. So I think if you need a feeling to confirm your nearness to God, then you will always be very double-minded because you're going to feel things all the time. And the devil can play on that because he could play with your little emotion. Why you feel like that? You know what I'm saying? So now you feel like, God don't love you.

God ain't with me because I don't feel them. You don't have to feel anything. Just know what you know. And if either God is with you or you ain't. That's good. That's that on that. So I appreciate y'all for being with us for season four. If you want more exclusives and all the things, go to www.

Patreon.com for it slash with the parries. Or you can go to with the parries. And actually, season five is going to be around the corner. Yeah, man. We released in season five this same year. So y'all ain't got to wait another 12 months for another season. And we ain't having them more babies, so you ain't got to wait. Yeah, that's done, that's done.

You know what I'm saying? we're not having a starting lineup. We're not doing the five. Yeah. Bye y'all. Sticking with the phone. 30 Minutes with the Perry's is a production of Ivy Media podcast. Edited by Angie Elkins.

Video recording and audio production by Kim Powell. Artwork by Hop and Music by Swoop. Join us on Patreon for early access to With the Perry's episodes and other exclusives. You got two options. You can go to www. Patreon.com forward slash With the Perry's. Or just go ahead, scroll. You'll find a link in our show notes.

We are the Perrys. Thank y'all for listening. Now go with God.