With The Perrys - So, About Friends

Episode Date: January 23, 2023

Friends. How many of us have them? Better question: how many of us have the kind of friendships that can weather the storms of life and survive? Jackie shares the one thing that trumps everything in her deep, intimate friendships and Preston shares wisdom on cultivating healthy friendships after ending toxic ones. Subscribe to the Perrys' newsletter: https://withtheperrys.myflodesk.com/zhfus4jx1s Join Preston's discipleship community for men: https://www.patreon.com/PrestonPerry/membership To support the work of the Perrys, donate via PayPal: https://paypal.me/withtheperrys Shop BOLD Apparel: boldapparel.shop Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What up Saints and Aks? How you doing? Wow. I don't like when you do that. You don't like what I steal your slogan. It's not yours. It belongs to me. Do you feel like me growing up as an only child makes me like a bad wife?

Oh, let's not talk about this stuff. Why would you ask such a crazy question? It came to my mind. No. What are some of the advantages you think of me growing up alone? and how it's served me in life. People who listen it might think we're playing this,

but this was really random. No, it literally just came to my life. What are some advantages of you growing up? Growing up by myself has actually served me. Served you. I think that it's allowed you to know how to sit and quiet. I think it's some benefit in that of not always having to talk and not always having to be doing something with someone.

I mean, Eden has an issue. Eden has the same issue that I have. It's like not. She literally can't be alone. Can't be alone. And like, everybody don't always have to, like, entertain you. Right. Like, Autumn want to just play with her Barbie down, her penny.

Go upstairs and wait until she want to play with you. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's all you have. I mean, this is like a... I can hear you like saying, oh, there's nothing else. No, you can't be saying that. But it is like a random question.

Like, what you want me to do with that? Like, you know, what are some benefits of me growing up with siblings? No, you see how you moved on to you that fast. Yeah, maybe I can think about some stuff. I don't know. See, I had more than you. Well, well, maybe you share. What?

You answered that like a four-year-old. You share. I was like, what? No, when we met, I remember how, like, liberal you were with your stuff. Like, it wasn't, it didn't, you didn't have to consider or think about sharing. To me, I have to, not anymore, because I got kids and America and stuff, but before, I used to have to really, like, process. Nah. Oh, they want, they want something I have.

No, for real, no. Why? I always used to tell you the first time, like, like, I. Like, I asked you for a piece of your snicker. We were friends. And you was like, I can buy you one. I was like, she had one of those long joints. This is when the snigger first started like separating the two snickers inside the package.

And I'm like, she got one of them long joints and I'm hungry. I forget what we was at. But I was like, we had just left a legacy meeting. Yeah. I'm like, well, I just can't get a piece of your snick. You was like, I can buy you one. But this is my snicker. And it was very logical.

And I was like, wow. And it wasn't. I wasn't even trying to be selfish. It just didn't register to me that you should have what I have. Like it's like you can literally get, you should get your own. That's that only child stuff. No, it is. When you're an only child, everything in the fridge, like when your mama went grocery shopping, it was for you.

Like everything she bought was for you. Everything in your room is yours. There is no. Didn't you say though when we were dating or I don't know if we were dating or I don't know if we were dating know we first got married like i i share something with you and you was like i think you said this is like the first no i think it was a snicker it was a snicker yes it was but you like that's why that's what i mean like you were so like liberal with it what was it you said like that's when you found out i was nice or something oh that wasn't when i found out you was nice it was when we were we were we were

texting and you said something nice oh okay okay i'm confusing stories yeah but but yeah anyways but this actually is a good segue into what we're talking about because Because we were friends. Hey, hey. And we had to learn how to be friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know. Uh-huh.

You ain't got nothing else. Yeah. Yeah, okay. The whole yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Threw you off. Yeah, yeah.

You're supposed to rev up. Right, right, right. What I'm supposed to do next? So we're talking about the hard work of friendship. Because, I mean, I think sometimes we don't use that adjective. when it comes to friendships. Like, we think it's bad to have to work for a friendship. And I think in some ways it can be.

Yeah. But I think in some ways it's necessary. Yeah. Because I think any real relationship requires work. Facts. Not all relationships require work. Yeah. And some of those relationships might be seasonal.

Yeah. But so I just, I guess we can talk through, how do you know when a relationship is, is requiring work that's not worthwhile. How do you discern that? What kind of work should we put into maintaining and cultivating our friendships? And what is the point? Yeah. Right?

Yeah. Because I think it's a difference between having a friendship that drains you and having a friendship that it's a little difficult at time. But you can see at the end of the role, you can see this person still. would be a benefit to me. And so I think it's a difference because I think sometimes we say, I don't want a friendship that that's hard, that, you know, that's difficult. And we want all friendships that's easy, but typically the easiest friendships doesn't have, don't have depth.

Yeah. And so it's like, so if it's easy, it's going to be really surface and it's not really, you know, y'all have like little artificial things that y'all bond over, but it's not going to be anything with significant death. And so like I found out that the friendships that I had to work for, you know, with the most beneficial friendships in the end, you know. I think it's helpful to explain a little bit because by work, what we don't and what I don't mean is I'm working to make you, my friend. Yeah.

That's not what I mean. Like if I got to work to make you a friend, one, that's weird. I'm grown. Like, why are we doing that? But what I mean is working. to build intimacy in the friendship. And I think sometimes we think about intimacy, primarily in terms of romantic relationships.

Friends should be intimate, too. I should know you. I should be sensitive to what hurts and what you like and what joys you have and all the things. Like we shouldn't just have like surface level friendships. Now, I do think that some friends should exist that way. Like I have some friendships, if we want to call it that, where is we go out to eat and we, you know, we dialogue.

But if I'm going through something, I'm not going to call you. Yeah. Like, you're not that person for me. Yeah, yeah. Like, do you categorize your friendships like I do? I don't even know if I do it consciously. Mm-hmm. I just, I rock with the people that I rock with in on a close intimate level because we

built that natural chemistry. Right. And I think that, you know, like the people. that I'm friends with, they kind of fall into categories just naturally. I don't like, oh, you're the second tier friendship and you're the first tier and you're, you're a C. Like, I don't, I don't, I don't necessarily do that. But I do think that, um, that I have been very intentional and identifying what I feel

like I need in a particular season. And I've grown. And this is a lot of therapy, you know, of saying, man. I think me and you being friends will benefit me and I think I could benefit you and I would like to be a friend. Like literally. Like, yeah, literally vocalizing that the last couple of years. Because I think that, yeah, I'm just getting older, you know. And it is never like to try to force a friendship.

It's some type of relationship that's already established. But I kind of feel like, man, like maybe time or maybe whatever. whatever that's causing us not to go deeper, maybe we need to go deep. And maybe I feel like the Lord is, is, is, is, is, is, it's, it's, is, it's, laying it on my heart for me to go deeper with this person. And so I'll, you know, I'll, you know, I'll vocalize it. Yeah, I think some relationships, uh, require, what's the word, communicating intentions.

Yeah. Um, and I've, I've found that I've had to do that in recent years just because of the life I have, where I have to actually articulate. No, like I want to be friends with you because a lot of people will assume and presume, which is, which is fair, like, I don't want to impede on her space. A lot of people are probably pulling on her. And so, like, they'll, they'll kind of like play the background. And I have to give them permission to say, no, you can, you can come into this space.

Like, it's all good. And then for other people, it's kind of like, no, like, you're good out there. Like, we're straight. Yeah, you can stay out there. Keep your shoes on. No, we're good. Like, we'll pray for each other. when it comes to building friendships and when it comes to like doing the the hard work,

how do you know where to put your energy? Like what do you see in a person that says, man, I want to put my energy here? Yeah. And what are you seeing the person here that says, I don't want to put my friendship here? I really matured a lot because for a long time, I had a lot of worldly reasons to be people's friends, which was like their style or they're funny

or cool or you know just like super like all of that but what happens is is that those people like character has to trump all of that and so that's kind of become my

primary thing is that can I trust your heart can I trust your character like I don't need friends that will not teach me something. I don't need friends that will not discern things. I don't need friends that cannot pray. I don't need friends. And I'm not saying that I'm not friends with people with weird characters. I'm not saying, I'm saying that there is a level of intimacy that I'm willing to give depending on the kind of person you actually are. That makes sense. Makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

And so that's kind of what I look for. It's like, yeah, that's good. That's real good. Like nowadays there is like this This I think we talked about it previously You were saying like how like People want like easy and like I want a soft life Speak to the people who say like man

If friendships doesn't come easy Like I don't want it You know what are the dangers You think that brings That type of mentality brings On one hand I think a friendship should be natural Yeah Like I do think it should be like, oh, we click.

Like we do vibe over certain stuff. Like if, if like y'all are two different people and there is no type of like connection, I ain't saying like overcome that. Yeah. Like that's what I'm not. So I think it should be natural. But I think for a friend, like I feel like as adults, you reach a point where there's a conflict or a misunderstanding or. or a disagreement, and when you reach that point, that's where the work happens. Because now it's beyond what we click about.

Now we're clashing. And I have a choice. I can work towards us getting on good terms again. Or I could just be like, I don't know, I don't want to talk about this and I shut down and da-da-da-da-da. Like when people do that, when you don't grow and y'all don't grow together. Yeah. And so the people that I've had to work through stuff with, work through disagreements with,

work through misunderstandings, there's some type of, some type of, switch where it's like I just I trust you more I see your heart like we've had to become vulnerable now because now we're not just talking about all the things that we like in the gospel song like like you get I'm saying like I think that's that's the cost of not working is that you never get a chance to go deeper and be known by another individual yeah but here's the two things that I think about I think about the person who sometimes have have this tension of going deeper with someone when conflict arises I think sometimes, to be frank, some people just really selfish. And so I don't want to deal with your extra drama.

I don't want to have to work. I want things that's easy. Right. And I think it can be some selfishness and some self-absorbitness there. But I also think that it can also be a trauma response to the toxic friendships that they may experience in the past. Yes. And so every single time, you know, they find a new friend. And the first time that friend comes and says,

oh you hurt me it's like okay it might seem as if they are this is the beginning of them showing you that they're toxic like your last friend and they they're going to bring you through a whole bunch of drama like your last friend and they and they might be and they might be but you i think you have to be wise enough to actually call it for what it is yeah and not see it through the lens of your pain yeah absolutely yeah and that's what that's what that's what i was going to and also too like like to not treat every single experience with your new friends like your old experiences because you're going to miss out on a lot of great people, you know, because everybody is not going to bring you through the same wire that your other friends did

or your old friends did. And so if somebody come to you and that's requiring you to work a little bit, after you get past this particular work, there might be a deep, long life friendship that it would benefit you. But if you just say, oh, I'm like, I'm a, you know, head out before, you know, this person brings me through whatever. Because you're allowing fear to make you run and not actually this person's. Yeah, I think you have to ask the question.

You need to sit down with yourself and say, is this relationship worth it? Yeah. Like, will it, does it serve me spiritually? Will it, will it, like, like, what does it do for me? And I don't mean in a self-centered way. I mean, like, we need community. We need people in our life. And so we need to be able to think through why we need them, what they add to us.

But I think one thing that people do not think about is the end of their life. If you have ever sat down with an older person, one thing that they will always describe about their lives is how lonely they are. And I think a part of the loneliness that we are preparing ourselves for is that we are unwilling to cultivate friendships that will last us when our spouses die. and when our kids leave and when we're in retirement. Like we need to be looking at the long game when it comes to the friends that we build. And that's what I'm on. I'm on like when I'm 70, 80, who will still be there? Yeah, that's good.

That's good. For me, my friendships started to get super weird when I moved to Atlanta because the- Your Chicago friendships or all of them? Just how I build friends in Atlanta compared to how I build friends. Chicago because Chicago, I came from a community in Chicago where like it was like really close community of believers, brothers or whatever. But out here, people will tell you in Atlanta, you have to be extra hard. You have to work extra hard to build friendships in Atlanta because everybody is going. Everybody is hustling. Everybody is doing something. Everybody is buying

business, buying, you know, properties and doing stuff. And so everybody's moving. And so like, you have to be extra intentional. in this space to build friends. And so one of the things that I've done was I had to just ask myself, Preston, are you willing to humble yourself and put yourself in a position to be vulnerable to say, man, like, I want to bill with you. I know you're busy. I know I'm busy.

But can we build something? And it's been beneficial for me because when I first came, I just automatically thought that friendships was going to come easy like it did in Chicago. when things were slower, you know, and Chicago's a fastest city, but my community was more, you know. But out here, it's like everybody's moving. And so, like, I think even as your life changes, you have to, you have to adjust how you even communicate

what you want in friendships because you just can't, like, were you going to be three years from now? It's not where you are now. And so, like, I don't know if that made sense, but yeah. No, I did. Yeah. Because a part of working on, friendships is being intentional about your time.

Because if you got a family, even if you don't have a family, like the singles out here working, working. So like they be investing a lot of their energy and their resources and all the other things. And so you kind of have to make a conscious decision to say, even if it's going to take three weeks, let's schedule time to talk or to connect or to go to a movie or to go see coffee because you'll end up going going going going and realize that you haven't yet set down with anybody who could actually be like hey you good yeah like or to have fun with you know what I'm

saying so I think it's I wish it was easy man but like friendships in high school or developing friendships in college in high school just it's so different when you have kids and when you have a family and it's like man like I want to I sometimes I I can be like the old Preston who didn't have all of these responsibilities who could just be friends with everybody. And sometimes you feel bad because you want to build with, I know I want to be with more people, but you just can't. And so I think for me, a lot of my friendships in the last three years has come after I've really sought the Lord. And I remember that season where I was looking for male friendships in Atlanta. And you was like, let's, you was like, let's pray, Preston.

That the Lord will sing you male good friends, you know. And shortly after he did. And it was like, okay, I'm not making friendships by my own, you know, ability anymore. And it's like now God has kind of put me in this season. It's like, no, like, I want you to even trust me when it comes to your friendships. I know you were, I always can make friends anywhere I went. But it was like now it was different. Yeah.

I want you to trust me with your friendships. And I think that, I don't know. I just think that God sometimes, for me, as I started to get older, he wanted me to be more particular in the people that I brought in my life. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Because I had more, like the more responsibility that he gave me, it seems as if the more like he was picky about the people that I brought in and out of my life.

And also, too, like the people that came. in my life that was draining me. It's like, I don't want people in your life. By draining, what do you mean? Like, not even draining me, but like, well, yeah, draining me. When I say draining me, I don't even mean it in a negative way because some people did take a lot out of me. A lot of friendships, it's not always equally beneficial. And so some friendships, people are going to lean on you more than you lean on them. And it's like, okay, Preston, you're not the same man that you was at 22. You have a wife and you have four kids.

I can't give you as many friends for them to lean on you anymore. You need some people that you all can lean on each other. You know what I'm saying? And maybe one or two people that can lean on you. You know? And so like I just had to like pray because if it was just me just out there trying to make friends like I always did and not really seeking a lot about who you want to be my friend.

I think I'm speaking to the extroverted person here. The person who doesn't care about like, if I like you, I like you. You know, that was my temptation. And it was just like, no, like, I feel like God and his sovereignty made it, made it hard for him to say, like, no, I'm making it hard because I want you to have a particular type of friend. That's good. You know. Yeah, I had to pray the same thing because friendship in recent years has become harder for me. Harder to get friends, harder to maintain friends.

Harder to, don't say all. it is what it is and harder to trust people yeah you know because we just we often have people that want to be around us not for us but for other reasons and i i think it's it's hard to be able it's it's stressful to be like having to watch to see if this person is genuine yeah but who wants to go through that yeah and so i think i had to pray one that the lord would send friends but he would also give me the eyes to discern when he sent somebody and the faith needed to trust that they're safe. That's good.

Because I think that takes time. But it's like friendships in high school were as easy as they were because it didn't require that much trust. If anything, it depends on the high school you went to where it's like, I got to trust that if somebody run up on me, like you're going to swing. Like if anything, that's the trust. But I'm not trusting you with my like heart. and my fears and my like my temptations or even my like becoming in my space like so that's why it takes a lot of work but i

think we all at the core of our being because of the way god has created us we all just simply want to be known and loved yeah and friendship is one of the ways to do that and i think if we are unwilling to practice and even work through some of the difficulties that come with building relationships with people like like we're not going to benefit from it and don't be surprised if you're a single person, always choosing the easy route when it comes to your relationship, that when you get married, then there's all these difficulties because you've never learned the discipline of working through conflict. And so even our friendships are a way to kind of develop a maturity about ourselves when it comes to love. And if you have surface friends

before you get married, like not really having friends to go deep with when your marriage gets difficult because you need good friends. to point you back to God and your spouse, since the stuff get hard. I wanted to speak on something you said earlier that people might have missed, which is how some friendships aren't mutually beneficial. And...

Yeah. They're not. I think we... That's why I think a lot of this is you got to be sensitive to what the Lord is calling you to do, right? And so, like, there are some friendships where there's no mutual benefit and it's draining you, but the Lord has called you to that. He's called you to maintain a friendship

because I've had times and seasons with certain friends where there is no mutual benefit, but my role in their life in this season is to show up and to be there and to be a friend and to be an ear. And that is what the Lord has called me too, and so I'm going to do that. Then there's friendships where you just, you off. Like you're not you're not good for me and you don't even you know those people like they've been around and you only still friends with them on the basis of loyalty.

Yeah. When it's like but you don't even like love me like that. Yeah. You get what I'm saying? Absolutely. Like they love you but they don't love you. They don't love you. Yeah.

Like you don't be like looking out for me like that. Because a lot of people think that they good because of history. Yeah. It's like oh yeah we got history. Remember in 98 we did such and such and it was like yeah. was two and but it's 2002 and I need you to have my back right now but people that I'm meeting at my back more than you do especially when they are still who they were now like like like who you were in 2002 is who you are in 2022 and who I was in 2002 is not who I am in 2022 and so I've progressed

I've matured, but you're still there. And so we're on two different wavelengths. We're on two different ends of the spectrum. And so even though we have history, there is no compatibility now. So what do I do with that? Yeah, so what is the difference between loving somebody or being friends with somebody like that and being friends with somebody who, because and being friends with somebody who isn't equally beneficial to you?

Is there a difference? Like, like, what? By difference, you mean what? between them or between how I engage in the friendship? Both. I think I'm asking both. Like what is the difference between loving somebody who just who's kind of like not good for you and understanding the difference. I think that's a better question.

Understanding the difference between somebody who is not good for you and seeking the lore of being friends with somebody who isn't equally beneficial for you. But your relationship can still benefit each other in some way, shape, form. I'm confused now, and so I'm going to just go off of what I wanted to say. I'm sorry for it. Let me make it simple this way. I'll make it, I'll make it simple. Okay, because it was too many things. Because I think when you first started, you saw talking about, like,

like sometimes God is calling you to be in a relationship that is equally beneficial. That isn't. That isn't equally beneficial. It's like, how do you know God is calling you to a relationship to a person that's not? You got to pray. Like, I can't even give you a thing. Like, you have to pray. Like for me, that particular person, there is a burden.

There is a what I've called you to be in this season is her friend, irregardless if she can be your friend back. And so that's just what I'm showing up for. I'm just available to that. Because that is what the Lord does to us all the time. Like you think that we are able to give anything back to the Lord that we're able to fill his love cup? No, like we're just, he loves us and is friendly towards us even when we're not his friend back.

And so that's that. But I think when I was talking about those who we have history with and you've matured beyond that friendship, I think for me, the way I engage in it is I determine how much relational equity I'm willing to give or put into this relationship on the basis of how it serves both of us. Because I'm not even serving you if you're not even learning. Like you're not even teachable. You're not even willing to grow with me. You're not even willing to go into certain places with me. And oftentimes, the friends that are still stagnant or immature in their walking in their life, they don't even want to be your friend like that no more.

You know what I'm saying? Because they feel uncomfortable because you got new friends and you got new ideas and you want to talk about scripture and they still want to talk about shave room. And it's like, we can't even vibe. I think when I asked you that question, that was the thing that popped in my mind. And I was wondering if that's one of the things that you were thinking about. Because what I was thinking about was, I think it's a thing. a difference between somebody that that you have a friendship with that is in their friendship

is not equally beneficial but they don't have and the reason why is because they don't have the capacity to be for you what you are to them opposed to a person who is not willing to to to to meet you where you are or has distanced itself away from you because your lives are different but they're still holding on history so i think it's a difference because i think sometimes god might call you to be someone's friend somebody's real friend and they just don't have the capacity they don't have they don't have it in them they may be in a hard season of their life but they really just can't give you yeah like suffering grief yeah yeah they can so so so they're going to require more from you then you you and then you have those people where yeah they're they're

They don't want to give it to you. Yes. And so I think it's a difference. I think understanding the difference, I think both can drain you. But I think God will give you strength with one. And he'll probably tell you to remove yourself from the other. And I think conversations have to be had. Yes.

Because especially women, you could start getting into your head about why this person isn't showing up in the way that they used to. and you could be ascribing all kinds of motives to them that isn't actually true. Right. Or you can be dealing with all this pain and all this hurting all this frustration and you just like bawling it up. Like you have to have a conversation and say, hey, I want us to be more than what we are.

Can we work towards that end? And then you watch and see if they respond. If they don't respond to me, it's like, oh, so you want us to be as superficial as we are. Okay, I'm going to keep that same energy. Not in a judgmental way. It's just I'm not going to put more emotional equity or relational equity into this if that's not what you want. Yeah. Yeah.

That's good. So it to me, it's all about intimacy. It's all about, you know, what do I have the margin to give? And it's all about what is the spirit calling me to do. I think conversations like this, like you can kind of take from a rule book. But like we have to be sensitive to the Lord. So again, like the Lord might want you to love your toxic friend and remain their friend. The Lord might want you to stop being friends with somebody that you've been friends with for 20-some years.

I don't know. Yeah. You got to discern it for yourself. Yeah, we got to seek the Lord for ourselves. And again, I want to be clear, at no point really were we ever talking about friends that lead us towards sinfulness. Yeah, I'm not even... Yeah, that's a good distinction to make. Yeah, that's like meat and milk.

We're on meat. We're not talking about milk. That's like a basic, you know, if your eye calls you to sin and gouge it out. Right, right. Like if they are a temptation to you and your walk, that's just a no-brainer. We've moved on to the more nuances of friends that, you know, serve us or don't serve us. Yeah. If they don't serve you in a way that not necessarily brings you into sin,

but don't even inspire you to even continue into doing the things that God has for you, you know. It's probably not as beneficial. And so you should pray. I'm not saying you should walk away immediately. You should ask Lord, do you want me to be this person, friend? Yeah, because it could be a season. And I'll add this. How you show up as a friend helps your friends become better friends.

That's good. So like if we always leave or never have a conversation or never have long suffering or patience, then we actually remove the opportunity for our friends to grow. And so I just think it's all. Because it's about trust. When your friends see you show up in horror seasons or even stick with them in horror seasons, like I think that, you know, trust is built. And so like they'll do the same for you.

And so I think that if we don't, if we run as soon as it get hard, it's like, okay, you destroy their trust. And so that's why that person's not there the next time. That's a soft life running. Soft life, yeah. God is calling us to hard things. Hard things often produce great outcomes. All right. Peace.

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