With The Perrys - Social Media Break, Slander, and Sanctification

Episode Date: December 9, 2024

After a fruitful yet exhausting year, the Perrys talk about the future of the podcast and their public ministry. They discuss whether or not they did too much, what they’ve learned about rhythms of rest, how God has used success and scrutiny to make them more like Jesus, and the gifts and dangers of social media.   While some ministry will still continue at the start of the new year, new episodes of With The Perrys won’t be released until Summer 2025.   In the meantime, be sure you’re subscribed to the newsletter for occasional updates from Jackie and Preston.   Episode resources: John Piper’s sermon about what God allows: “Seven Ways God Reigns Over Evil”   The Perrys’ 2024 recap: Jackie’s Bible study, Ephesians: A Study of Faith and Practice, with Lifeway Preston’s first book, How to Tell the Truth: The Story of How God Saved Me to Win Hearts—Not Just Arguments The 16-city With The Perrys podcast tour Acts 242 Conference Jackie’s EP, “Practice,” with Reach Records Preston’s Bible study, Everyday Evangelism - Bible Study Book with Video Access: Pursuing Hearts, Not Arguments, with Lifeway The ramp-up of BOLD Apparel Subscribe to the Perrys' newsletter: https://withtheperrys.myflodesk.com/zhfus4jx1s Join Preston's discipleship community for men: https://www.patreon.com/PrestonPerry/membership To support the work of the Perrys, donate via PayPal: https://paypal.me/withtheperrys Shop BOLD Apparel: boldapparel.shop Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, St. Tonight's. What up with y'all? It's been a, it hasn't been a while for you guys because you've been seeing content every week. But we haven't shot an episode since September. It's been that long. It's been a minute. Wow, I didn't realize it was that long. That's crazy.

A lot has transpired. I cut my hair. I released an EP. Axe 242 conference happened. Yeah. What else is there? but yeah so we wanted to have an episode to kind of close out we don't have seasons anymore but to kind of have a closing episode to discuss just our future when it comes to this podcast and public ministry and stuff like that yeah for sure so how's your year been bad the year was fruitful It was a very fruitful year.

I think as far as ministry is concerned, I think I was able to pour out a lot, whether it was with the Ephesians Bible study with Jasmine Holmes and Melissa Kruger, with the podcast tour with you in the summer, or we did 16 cities. That was very good, very beautiful. Then with Acts 242 conference with Megan Ashley,

then with the practice EP, with Reach Records, Like, I think it's been a very good year. A lot going on. Yeah, like my release in my first book. Was that this year? Yeah. Oh.

It released in May. Was it? Yeah. Oh, that's crazy. Yeah. It don't feel like it came out this year. Yeah, yeah. Released in May and also my first Bible study.

And so just seeing content, you know, go out into the world for me. I've always had podcasts. and poetry, you know, but to see, like, content go out in the world and people actually read my work and be impacted with it, that was, that was actually a very fruitful, fruitful thing for me this year, too. And so it's just a lot been going on, you know. I just kind of feel like, yeah, this year with the, with just moving around so much with the tour, with, you know, doing podcasts, and then with the release of my book, I just kind of feel like it was a whole lot. And so I'm just really ready for just to just wind down and enjoy the holiday season and eat turkey and just watch

football. Do you think we did too much? I think we probably bit off a little more than we can chew. In what way? I just kind of feel like, you know, it was just one thing after another. I just kind of feel like it wasn't like other years we kind of had like, I think last year we had like a lot of vacations in between things. I just kind of I feel like it was just one thing after. I think it was the same. Really? I don't actually think it was that different. Yeah.

I think, I think, I think the difference with this year versus versus previous years is that I think we have a team now. And so in a sense, the team has given us room and space and margin to do more. Yeah. But it also means that we have to manage more. That's true. So I kept feeling like, why do I feel more stress? Why do I feel more responsible? Why do I feel like I have more stuff?

And it's like, oh, because I have staff meetings and I have payroll to do. And I have scheduling and I have to have conversations. And it was all of this private day-to-day stuff that made the public stuff. Like the public stuff, that's kind of easy. The touring and all. It's the private day-to-day logistical administrative management. stuff that was making everything feel fuller. Yeah.

You know, even with bold apparel. I think, yeah, so I was about to say, I think, I think with the addition of me, like, ramping up the bold apparel clothing line business we have and just having, like, people under me, just having to manage that. It was just different for me this year than previous years because in previous years, it was just me. Yeah. And for the most part.

It was, it was you in partnership with another company. Now you're Frank Lucas. So there is no middleman. There is no other company. It is you going to Thailand and getting the blue magic. Oh, my goodness. You know what I'm saying? And so that automatically means that it just, it was more work.

But I think, I will say, I don't think, personally, I don't feel like we did anything outside of the will of God. I don't feel, do you disagree? No. I was, I shook my A. Yeah. because so even though it was because even when I asked you the question, do you think we did too much? You say we bit off more than we could true. I think I don't think we did because I think we did what we were supposed to do.

I think if anything, I don't know if our spiritual, well, I'll speak for me. I don't know if my rhythm of rest was good enough or sufficient enough to carry all that God had us to. to do. Yeah. So you're saying we did everything, but we didn't rest in between well. Yeah, I think we did everything we were supposed to do, but we didn't do everything we were supposed to do so that what we did. Like, I think everything exhausted us in a way that it shouldn't have if our, if we had a rhythm of rest that could carry that. You know what I'm saying? So it's like coming home and like, like honestly, I would come home and just want to be in a bed and watch Netflix. instead of spending time with the Lord.

I would come home and want to just hang out with people instead of spending time with the Lord. Like I wouldn't, I don't think I managed rest well so that I feel way more empty and more exhausted than I actually should be. Yeah. Does it make sense? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

And I think one of the things that, you know, this is just, I think this year was a learning season for us because I think what we talked about in previous years was not partnering with ministries and people as much as we did, we're kind of doing our own. And I think when doing our own, I think when it just comes to, you know, planning events and, you know, you're very gifted in that.

You know what I'm saying? Like when it comes to hustling, I'm very, you know what I'm saying? I feel like we work as a team. But I feel like, man, we're doing our own, you know, we had to learn, I think now God's trying to teach us how to manage doing our own. Yes. And so I think it just is a learning curve.

Yeah. And so because it's like we're very capable. Yeah. You know, which is encouraging. But at the same time, even though you're capable, you still got to learn how to manage when you're doing. Because you can, you just want to do a lot. Yeah.

When you have the ability to. And so it's been a good learning season for us. Yeah, I think because I would come home oftentimes and feel like I had nothing to offer or nothing to give. I didn't want to talk. I didn't want to answer questions. I didn't want to cook. I have spent so much money on Uber Eats this last year.

It is ridiculous. Our kids are French fries. Yeah, I think their kidneys are probably in disarray. And I was asking myself, like, why is this year different? And it was, again, it was like, yeah, I'm pouring out a whole lot to everybody else. And the fact that I don't have any gas left when I come home is a problem. Yeah. And so it felt like, oh, like, I got to shift some stuff around.

I got to pull back. That's very honest of you. Yeah, I mean. Yeah, yeah. And me too. You know, we both have, I wouldn't say, I think the wrong word has been up more than we can shoot. But I feel like this year was a learning season for us, you know. And yeah, I thank God that he has allowed us to see it early.

So another component of this year that has been particularly difficult is that, even though there has been a lot of public success, there's also been a lot of public scrutiny on me, on my friendships, on my marriage, on my demeanor, on my clothing, on my speech, on my theology, just a lot of criticism in ways that I've never gotten. And I was used to being slandered and criticized from the world. I was not used to that by the church. And so I didn't know not I didn't know how to handle it. It just was a new, it was just new for me.

And so I think after, after a time after like blow after blow after blow, you know, of people questioning my integrity, questioning my godliness, questioning my character. It started to feel like social media at times is obviously ministry. but it also has been not a refuge, but a place of distraction for me. Like I go on there to laugh. I go on there to look at like, you know, design inspiration. I go on there to look at, you know, like people I like and stuff like that.

But it became a place where at any given moment, I could be, I could stumble onto something that hurt my feelings. Or I could stumble onto something that just felt like, ah, you know what I'm saying? And it felt like, oh, this isn't actually a safe place either. So it felt like the Lord. was even pushing me away from it. And in him pushing me away from it, it was making me consider why isn't scripture

more of a resource for me in my downtime? And so I start to play with the idea of what would it look like to just leave for a second. And I really started to think about it. And I was like, okay. Like, again, a thing for me, I've said this multiple times, is in Luke when it talks about Jesus,

it says as the report of him grew, he would withdraw to desolate places and pray. And I think there is something very special about the text saying, no, as he became more famous, as he became more known, as he became more, you know, familiar, he actually would not lean into that. He would lean away from him.

Yeah, draw away from Christ. and go into desolate private places and spend time with his father. And I think that's where I am in my life is even though the books and the podcast and the tours and the conferences are all the da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. I think the Lord is also using the criticism

to actually make me like Jesus and to put me in a position where it's like, let's withdraw and get before an audience of one. And so six months felt, it felt long enough to do significant work. in my life and in my heart. And I just imagined what it would be like.

I was like, I feel like I'll read more. I feel like I'll look at my children's eyes more. I feel like I would imagine more. I feel like I would meditate more. I feel like my thoughts would be clearer. I even feel like I'll be more curious about people in my life because I have to ask them questions now. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? Like, we don't ask anybody questions because all we have to do is go to their page. For sure. For sure. So I just think it will change me in a very good. good way. Yeah, yeah, that's really good. And I think social media, one of the things I've said, I think I said on this podcast, but God is consistently reminding me that social media isn't real life like that. It really isn't. It's only, it's a very small part of real life,

but it can actually feel like real life, you know? And, you know, people are getting 15 even in snapshots of your life and then critiquing whole people, you know what I'm saying, which can be a huge distraction. But I love the fact what you said, I can look in people's eyes and I can really build with people. And I really think that we just became so disconnected. We become disconnected with God. We become disconnected with the people in our lives because social media takes so much

of our real life. And it's not actually real life like that. No, not. It's curated life. Curated life. You know what I'm saying? And so I think, I think, I think, I think breaks from social media,

this is just my personal opinion, for everybody is healthy. Yeah. I think that... This should be a regular thing. I think that, yeah, I think that we should fast from it probably more than we fast from a lot of things

because it has just taken control of a lot of our lives. A lot of our lives is done on social media. And so we have false perceptions of people because of social media. We have false perceptions of ourselves because of social media. We believe wrong theology

about God because of social media and God uses social media. I'm not saying that he doesn't. He uses it and it is fruitful in some ways but you need a healthy balance of real life and so when you do go to social media you won't be adding to a lot of the

because we always usually fast all of December what we did last year, the year before that we didn't and then I think the year before that we did and so I've had tastes of what it does you know it's it's actually incredible. On one end, you become really bored and you realize how addicted to entertainment

you are. I realize how much downtime I have. You also realize how much people don't talk to each other. I remember being at church one time. It was like a Wednesday Bible study. We was in Chicago. We were on a social media fast. And everybody was on their phones. And I was just like sitting there twiddling my thumb. And I'm like, dang, I would have been doing it. the same thing. But now I'm sitting here like, so are we going to talk or like what do it? Like, so I had to like find like a news app or like scrabble or something to like

Scrabble. So I do that when I get on the fast. I just start playing games again. Yeah. I think last year when we took the month off for December I think. Yeah. It was really good for me mentally to just be with the kids to make cookies, watch movies

and just enjoy family. You know what I'm saying? It's really good. And I think that for people, especially, you know, I think sometimes it can be harder for self-employed people to unplug, then it can be for people. Yeah. When your business kind of hinges on utilizing social media. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. And there's ways around that. There's scheduling. You know, there's, uh, you may not be able to take a six month fast. Like maybe you could take two days a week. you know, maybe you could take once a month. Like there's ways to do it where you don't, you know. For sure, for sure.

I just want to talk about the, I want to talk about the online criticism a little more. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Not with you, not with you, but just more so, you know, with the criticism that I received. And just criticism and period, period. I really think that people really have to have a healthy balance

of ingesting content that just always just calls out people. You know what I'm saying? I really think that we need to change the way we do social media in a lot of ways because I think it's just very toxic. I'm kind of at the point, though. I think that's what y'all want. Do you? I think that's what y'all want.

I think you want to listen to so-called, profits who are untethered from a local community. Yeah. And not necessarily exegeting or expounding a text, but expounding the, what they would say is the private lives of individuals. I think that I think that's what you, you want. So you think it's a. And so I no longer feel this come, this.

Yeah. That's actually very true. Because I think I have, you know, I think I'm so justice bent. that's deep. What I just realize is I think a lot of what you preach about in First Timothy itching ears. That's itching ears. Is a lot of, because in my mind, I'm so, it's not even, like, when people say things about me on social media, I just kind of like, I don't, it doesn't, yeah, I rub it off a lot of the times. I'd be more irritated and more concerned about people who I feel like are being taught wrong or ingested.

a lot of stuff. Like new believers or immature believers. Yeah, that that because I'm so justice bent. Yeah. And so it's like I'm always trying to like help people see, you know, like you're being taught wrong. That's the reason why I'm an evangelist, you know what I'm and so I think I have there, but I probably haven't even meditated on the fact that all my wife has taught about a lot this year was just, you know, people having inch of years, accumulating teachers for themselves. It's the same thing with social media, you know, in a lot of ways. And I think it's just sad when you see the body of Christ, you know, flock to what I think is like, you know, almost like TMZ type Christian pages that don't really edify the body. And I think,

you know, I think that there is a, I think that there's a benefit of listening to healthy critique. But when you have just such a constant diet of critique and you don't have the wisdom to question the discernment of the person that's always critiquing, because if a person is always critiquing, their discernment is off. If it's not a balance of lifting people up and, you know what I'm saying? But even the language, these people are lying. Yeah. In what way?

Because I know a couple of ways. To say that I am in sin, you're lying on me. Yeah. Yeah. That's not a criticism. Yeah. It's a lie. Yeah.

Yeah. You understand? And so to me at some point, it's not even people critiquing. It's slandering. And so I think that's what's troublesome. Yet at the same time, I can't control that. And so I feel like at the end of the day,

people don't, in the same way that people don't know their lives, they don't know mine. But I do feel like my content, my life, even the circles I run in speaks for itself. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I got at this point about 15-some years of content. Yeah.

So it's like. But see, here's the thing, though, that concern. I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, but this is the thing that concerns me. I feel like, you know, I've heard people tell me that I have, like, elder qualities that scares me. For sure you do. That scares the crap out of it. And it's probably because.

Which is a sign of elder quality. Which probably because I'm just a lot of my friends are pastors. Right. And so I hang out with pastors. I mean, they're like some of my closest friends, right? And I think if I ever became an elder, especially in the way that our world has become so engulfed with social media,

I think one of the first things I'll do as an elder is have social media training. That's good. I think I think that's because one, that's practical. One, I would never, ever see somebody in my congregation in somebody comment section that they don't know bashing them. Say that again. Like if somebody, if I was online and I saw one of my church members online, like bashing somebody that they didn't know in a common section,

the first time I see them was like, what's this about? That's good. This is not even our local community. You don't know nothing about these people. Right? And I would teach them. And in a loving way, I would teach them what it means to be in a local church, right? Because a lot of these people who call out people on social media, they try to do what Paul and stuff.

And forget that he was writing to communities. Yes. He was writing to the church of Ephesus. He was writing to the, right? And so when you go online. And he was an apostle who saw Christ. Right. And so that's, that's a whole other thing.

That's one thing. And so it's like, Paul said, call off all the teacher. Yes, he was writing his mentee in the faith Timothy and he was telling him to watch out for that particular church in Ephesus. He wasn't saying, look at the church of Philippi and talk over there. So one, so one, I would teach my congregation to focus more on their local community more than they focus on other communities, right? And I also would teach my congregation that, man, objects in the mirror seem closer than they appear, meaning people on social media seem closer than they appear. though you have a glimpse of somebody life, you don't have the whole picture to be so opinionated.

Yeah. You just don't. That's just wisdom. Yeah. Right? And so, you know, a lot of times we just be listening and ingesting people like that have wisdom.

Another thing that I would tell my congregation is like, like you know me as a pastor. But not only do you know me as a pastor, one of the reasons why you trust me as a pastor because you know people over me. You don't know nobody over the people. I can name people who always calling people out on social media you don't know who they pastor is you don't know who disciples them

you don't know what cloth they come from theological training theological training right like right and so like even on this podcast everybody that has ever mentored us has been on this podcast correct Melody Fabian Melody Fabian Ryan Dye

Eric Mason Eric Mason Dr. Serreda Lyons our pastor Philip Mitchell Right and so like you know what we come from Yes. And so even if you think... I go to Reform Theological Seminary.

Right. And so listen, listen, this is... It's traceable. This is what I'm telling people to look at. People don't understand. Like, social media makes people stop being logical. They'll come online and say, I'm a prophet. Right?

And they have nobody to back them. Yeah. And they'll make you start doubting somebody who has showed you everybody that they have in their life. And in Corinthians... In Corinthians, I think it's in, it's either. 1114 is one of them. But even when prophecy went forth, it was supposed to be tested.

Yeah. Within community. Absolutely. And so I think one of the dangers of social media is that it allows us to function in spiritual gifts and mimic spiritual gifts without the, like we have to test. So even in Thessalonians, do not despise prophecies. Don't quench the spirit. but test everything.

How do you test it? You take it against God's word. Right? And so it's just like at the end of the day, is the person training you to love God more than anything? Is the person training you how to love the scriptures and how to navigate the scriptures? Or is the person training you to have a critical eye towards people? And we have to be honest about our own disposition towards shame.

Because our shame is playing a part. in the content that we ingest. Talk about it. Come on. Expound. If I have a very low view, a very low self-worth, then I might have a high self-righteousness.

And in having a very high self-righteousness in light of my own self-worth, I will ingest content that brings down everybody else because it makes me feel better. Yes. Right? So I want to watch content where the leaders of our day are the ones who are always being exposed. Why? Because that makes me feel holy.

That makes me feel righteous. That makes me feel good. And don't hear me say, some people are in legitimate sin, but it's not the prophets that are exposing them. It's the victims. So in these churches, where victims are coming to the surface, that is legitimate exposure. Right. So we do need to call that out. We do need to address the sexual abuses in our pulpits. We do need to address the spiritual abuses in our churches. That is a legitimate thing. But like, do you know what I'm saying? Absolutely.

I think shame in our internal world is playing such a big part in just this false sense of superiority. And we think it's like, no, like, that's my, like, I'm team this. I'm team that. It's just like, let's be honest. I don't know if we're loving Christ as much as we say we do. That's good. That's really good. Yeah.

I agree. I think, you know, because social media has trained us so much to just consume, consume, consume, consume, consume. Like, one, I don't think a lot of people even have as much time to even pour into themselves spiritually, right? And so a lot of times, so I just had a conversation. you know this this this hard conversation I had with somebody or whatever about this criticism that they was given another public Christian and I told this person I came home and told you I said you don't even know this person but I told him exactly what you just said I said I don't see you working on yourself spiritually at all like when you are when I'm around you you never teach me about scripture you never like exor me. You never say, I was praying for you and the Lord told me that, you know what I'm saying? The only time you talk about anything spiritual is about what you disagree with. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And so because of that, like, like I think, you know, one, I cannot even trust your criticism.

Because it's not balanced. Because the people who I trust usually are people who have a healthy balance of criticism and confession. Yes. Okay. So when you read the Psalms, you see a lot of confidence. When you read Paul, I was reading 2nd Corinthians this morning where he was talking about how, you know, they were afflicted beyond despair. And he was just so honest about his own despair and his pain and his affliction and all the stuff.

And so when he does move on to challenge them, it's like he doesn't just challenge. He also talks about what he's going through. And so to me, it is always interesting when I see content that is always critiquing and never confessing. That's good. Because truth be told, I said this on the podcast with Megan, I am an easy target because I've always confessed.

Yeah. I'm a very easy target. I got a whole book with my business out. We have podcasts after podcast after podcast about me talking about my failures. I have never hidden anything from anybody. So of course, she's an easy talk. But what have y'all put out there? Yeah, yeah.

Just self-righteous content. So leadership says, let me be broken out loud so that you know that I am, in fact, a jar of clay to show that the surpassing power does not in fact belong to me, but to God. I love what Ray said on our last podcast that we had with him. He said, you know, the church is not a place where we polish our Christianity but display our brokenness. and I really feel like you have done a good job of displaying your brokenness, which is the reason why you've been able to reach so many broken people. But I think that for people who are self-righteous who don't like even the appearance of brokenness because they can't even discern between brokenness and sin,

it's going to be, you're going to be an easy target. You know what I'm saying? We're going to be an easy target. But I think I would just say that it has to start back in local church communities. We have to start, one, individually doing the work of challenging people to focus on that local community and not give public attention, attention that they should be giving their local bodies. Because I do think that people are just so involved in people's lives that they actually don't really know. and at the end of the day we can put content out there

and somebody would say well y'all put content out there where we put content out there but we exhort the local church and local community so high and so our job is not to try to push people towards us but to put truth out there and encourage people to go back

in their local communities and make disciples. And to be aware of how because you have a lot of listeners who are part of local churches but I also want them to be aware of how the content you engage with will distill itself down into how you show up in your local church. Wow. Okay. Break that down. So if I am always ingesting content that is critical, I will be a

critical church member. So I'll be present, but I'll be critiquing. Yeah. I'll always be looking to rebuke. I'll always be, I'll always try to be prophetic by like, you're not prophetic just because you can see flaws. That's actually very easy. Yeah. That's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's not hard to do. to see flaws in people. Like, real leadership, real discernment is not just the ability to see what's wrong, but to see what's right and the ability to discern how to cultivate that, how to stir that up, how to affirm what is good in somebody to. And so I think knowing, like, I say that to say, like, we want to be, like,

when you read First Corinthians, I think everybody should get in the habit of just reading a book of the Bible in one sitting. read First Corinthians all the way through and pay attention to how he is writing to a church who is very arrogant because of their spiritual gifting. That's the part. That's the part. And they don't have the right to be arrogant because there's people in their church

that are living in sexual sin. And so when we get to First Corinthians 13, when he talks about love, that whole chapter ain't supposed to be just what you're talking about at your wedding. It's couch next to this chapter about spiritual gifts. And it's like, yeah, you can speak it to tongues against angels all day love, but if you don't have love, you are a clanging symbol. And so we don't want to be these people who know all the prophets, who got all the words, who know all the stuff.

But when you show up at church, you are loveless. Yeah. God does not look at that and honor that. Why? Because God is love. When you look at First John, that's first John. That's his whole message. It's like, no, you cannot say that you love God that you can't see. And then you hate the brother that you do see. And you'd be like, well, I'm not hating them. Are you sure? Yeah. Love is patient. Love is kind. Love is kind.

Catch this. Love hopes the best. That is love. Yeah, that's good. And so even if you see something that might be troubling, love says, let me consider the possibility that what I see is not the whole picture. Yeah. And I think what you just said, I think it's just godly wisdom, you know. And I think that social media doesn't really train us in wisdom.

I mean, and it doesn't. It does. It does. But in a lot of ways, I, because I think that we get so, such quick snapshots of people's lives and we just take it as truth. And we don't have the ability to see deeply. You know what I'm saying? And so I think that's the reason why we speak like, like we speak. So I was talking to one guy, you know, who I disagree with.

And he spoke so authoritatively about a life that he didn't know nothing about. It was just like, bro, like, you're speaking so authoritative about people you've never even, you never seen the face in person. I was like, wow, I couldn't. Like, I was like shocked. I was like, yeah. Why am I stuck in this conversation? I'm like, because in my mind, like, and I think because I was so shocked because I deal, I have a lot of conversations and debates with unbelievers, but they were, they're not even arrogant. It's like they have more of a grip on reality than this.

That's deep. Than this professing Christian did. And it's like and so the conversations with unbelievers, I have deep debates with agnostics and atheist and Jehovah's Witness and Hebrew Israelites. But I'm talking to this Christian who just discerns from social media. And he spoke so authoritatively about people he'd never seen in person. And not only that he was telling me. that I had relationships and I don't want to call people out because I had relationships with

these people and I didn't even know these people. I never seen these people in person, you know, and I'm like, wow. And I'm like, so when I say social media has destroyed us, you know what I'm like? Because this person literally said, you don't want to call out named a couple of famous pastors because you don't want to lose your connection with them. And I'm like, oh, you think I have a connection with them because I'm a popular Christian and they're popular Christian, but you've never seen us together, but social media has made you think that all of these. And so like social media has just ruined us in that way. Here's an honest. Here's an honest question. How has it ruined you? Oh, man. It has ruined me because it has made me less loving. In what way?

Because I think, I think when I first became a Christian and when I first started to be an evangelist, I actually did life with people so I had time to bear with people but when people get on my nerve in social media it has made people get on my nerve everywhere. Does it make sense? That's deep. Yeah. And so I don't have the patience that I have for people

because I'm actually not doing life with people. I'm just actually just hearing criticism. I'm the criticism. And so when I actually meet people in my real life, I've noticed that even as an evangelist, I don't even have a patience for people anymore. That's deep. So my patience is shorter. Me hoping the best is weaker.

You know what I'm saying? Because I've been wounded by so many opinionated people who actually don't know me at all. Yeah. So when I actually meet people in my real life, like the enemy has taken advantage of that and affected how I actually engage with people in real life. And so, I mean, we're all guilty of it. How has it served you? I think it served me, you know, when I see social media is a blessing, you know, it's, it's, it has served me because, you know, with the obvious stuff. Like a girl just rolled me the other day and said, you're a very unconventional type of teacher. She said, I'm from the south side of Chicago and she said, I didn't grow up in church. And she said, I literally came back to the church because of you.

That's encouraging. Yeah. Yeah. So like, you know, God sends things in social media to uplift you. Like, man, like, if you could be in a pulpit talking how you talk and being yourself, I can. Yeah. You know, and it's also just hearing people say, man, I had a conversation with my father was a Muslim for the first time as I read your book. Yeah.

You know, so it's encouraged me in that way. And to be able to be used by Lord and to reach people from all over the world is a huge encouragement. Yeah. I think the best gift social. media has given me besides because our our ministry is because of social media. Like even before Twitter, TikTok, all of that, it was YouTube. YouTube. We met Facebook doing poetry.

Our poems went on YouTube and then our ministries, our public ministry started. And so the Lord has used it greatly. But I think it's the relationships I've gotten. Most of the people who have sat on our couch that we know. love. Through social media. We either met at a conference or if we met that relationship was kind of cultivated through DMs or liking or commenting.

You know what I'm saying? And there was like this back and forth. I think that's the like even the other day I was talking to Chastity in the DMs and she was talking about our episode of Ray Orlin. And she was like, how y'all even meet him? And I said Twitter. Yeah. And I thought about that.

I remember that. We met this man through Twitter 10 years ago. Yeah. And it's just like, but imagine all the investment that Ray has made into your life and how it's changed you as a husband, how it's changed you as a father, all because of this platform. And so even though it is harmful, it is also incredibly helpful. But as it is with anything, anything that is a human institution is tainted. Yeah. And so because it's tainted, it means it has to be stewarded with wisdom.

I just want to say this too, you know, the other day, because I want to just give encouragement to people like yourself, but also you came home the other day and you told me that it was a, don't need to say the person's name, but a popular influence on social media who was getting attacked about some stuff, political stuff and people, yada, yada, yada. And one of the things that I felt like the Lord showed me when I was preparing for my head is actually very impressive. Huh? The hat. I just like it a lot. You like my hat? I do. I keep looking at it.

I should have bought it for you. That's fine. You bought this one. I did. Good job. What are the things that, one of the things that the Lord encouraged me, and I felt like the Lord wanted me to encourage people who are out really just trying

to serve the Lord, you know, and really trying to like be faithful and giving the gospel, whether that's singing about him, teaching about him, doing poetry about him, rapping about him. Like I was reading, I taught on 1 Peter, first Peter, whatever, when Peter and John was in jail, and it says, they were arrested for giving the gospel in a very pluralistic society. And it says they were put in prison into the next day. And the next sentence says, but many who heard the word of God believe. And I loved how the writer just quickly transitioned to the word, but like they were put in jail.

yet they were persecuted, but many heard the word, believe. And one of the things I said in the conference is that when we go through persecution, when we go through suffering, the enemy always wants us to focus on the persecution, but he never wants us to focus on the butt. And I think my encouragement to anybody out there being used is the enemy doesn't want to Jackie Hill Perry to meditate on the fact that same-sex attracted people have literally left their significant others by reading your content. like all over the world.

Yeah. Right. Like, like, the enemy doesn't want Megan Ashley to see that like a whole community of people

are inspired to go into a church because of her. Yeah. Like a whole demographic of people, bro. Like people who haven't been in church in years have walked in churches this year because of you.

Yeah. Like people don't want Eric Mason who's very effective to know like you've inspired people like Preston Perry to be evangelist and apologies. Like, like people don't want people

like Dr. Soria, the enemy doesn't want Dr. Sridda to know, like, you've encouraged, like, black women all over the country to be biblically sound and to be leaders in their local community. Like, he doesn't want us to focus on how effective we've been. Yeah. Right. And so I just, that's my only encouragement to people. It's like, man, the enemy is going to use people in the church to try to make you feel like that the criticism is louder than your, how effective you've been.

But that's a lot. your effectiveness will echo throughout eternity. The criticism will go to hell one day. You know what I'm saying? It literally will not last forever. You know what I'm saying? And so like meditate on how effective you've been. And so when I look back at our year,

I'm very proud. And I know that the criticism has, and the slander and the attacks by the enemy has come in light of how effective. that we've been. Yeah. I want to add this too just for all Christians, because this is something that I've meditated on, is difficulty is good. You know, so whatever means by which the difficulty comes. So for me, this year, it's come in many forms. It's come through depression. It's come through difficulty in marriage. It's come through parenting. It's come through friend stuff. It's come through

slander. It's come through betrayal. It's come through a lot of stuff. And I think I have to be reminded that God is being a very good dad to use these things as a form of discipline. And not discipline because I've done anything wrong per se. It's not like I'm perfect. Yeah. But discipline because he wants me to be perfected. That's good. You know, because there was a, there was some weeks where I'm like, I said this on the podcast with Phil. I'm like, did I see it?

Did I do something wrong? Like, did I, did I, is there some da-da-da-da-da? And he will expose. He will use the difficulty to show the places in your heart that you might not be doing wrong, but you are. Yeah. Huh. That's good.

Where there's some pride. Where there's some arrogance, where there's some entitlement. You know what I'm saying? that would not surface unless the difficulty come. Speaking of pride and entitlement. The Lord has always reminded me that I have pride and entitlement. Oh, I kind of think that's just a cement that's on the bottom of our heart that just has layers. I'd be like, I'd be mad. I mean, like, I got a right to be mad. And the Lord be reminded me, oh, you're entitled. Yeah. You're just entitled. Yeah. Yeah. So I say that to say like, I was even, I was talking to

K.A. Ellis. And we had a thing at my school. And she was just telling me some of the content that she seen recently. And she was asking me if I was okay. And I was like, no, I was like, it's getting to me. You know, it's affecting me. But I reflected, I said, I get too much praise. I get too much praise. I'm, and this isn't, this isn't a flex. This is, this is, this is me. facts. This is me trying to lead because all of us are gifted. All of us are called to do something. You know, all of us are going to be exalted in some measure because God will lift us up for him for him to be seen.

But for me, it's like I get too much attention. Yeah. And so God would actually not be good to me if he allowed me to only receive praise. Mm-hmm. That would be a detriment to my soul. And so he has to send both praise and slander. He has to send the thorn of Satan to keep me humble. You got Paul saying like I saw vision.

I've seen like for me to look at it. This is going to sound like a flex. I'm not trying to, I'm trying to mimic Paul. For me to look at scriptures and see God and communicate that, God has to send constant trials to keep me low. so that I would always know that I need him. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

The degree of brokenness I feel in this season is only because of the trials. It's not because of what I see in the scriptures. It's because of the trials. That's good. It's because of the circumstances. Like, honestly. And so it's like, I say that as an encouragement, like, to know, like, when life gets hard, when it gets difficult, it's not because God doesn't like you.

Yeah. It's because God loves you. It's because God is keeping you. It's because he really does know that when you are weak, then you are strong. And so I feel like, I don't know. I think even though this year has been so, so hard, God has been very good to me. Yeah. Yeah.

Come on. Let it out. God has been good. I'm not doing this. Come on. Let it out. I'm not doing it. Let it.

No, I'm not doing it. Come on. Let it out. I'm not letting it out. I'm not letting it out. out. No, it's gone. I promise. It's gone. God has been good. You got to keep going. Okay. Yeah, before we close, I just want to communicate something. Can I go back to first Peter real quick? Yes. I love when you cry. That's becoming a thing. Yeah. It's good. It's getting ridiculous.

It's good. Like, just getting out of hand. It's like the third time I cried this season. Hey, we ain't counting. I am. You're just being human. Apparently. You're just being human. This is the fruit of brokenness. Yeah, yeah. Go ahead. Like, studying that passage that I taught at Acts really helped me a lot. Uh-huh. Because I wish I had time to teach the whole passage, but I didn't have time.

Because at the end of that passage, when Peter and John are arrested, they're released from prison, they go back into the town. And they're basically take their persecution to the Lord. And the Bible says that they go back into the local community and they pray together and they say they pray this prayer which is a very powerful prayer and they say now Lord

now sovereign Lord who made the heavens in the earth and yada and the sea and everything in them look upon their threats to give us the power to speak with more boldness but one thing that they said in a pray that really stuck out to me was

they they said about the mouth of our father David who said why did the Gentiles rage and the people's plot in vain right so they quote they quote Psalms too when Peter raises this question hundreds of years prior but they didn't actually like David didn't really answer the question he just raised the question to God which David does a lot in the Psalms and they actually answered the question that David raised and he says this is about this is about the reason

why the people plied in the vein this is the reason why they they they plot in the vein to get your people because you predestined people to slander to persecute your people like it's a reason why it's says you predestined Pontius Pollitt and the people of Israel to do whatever your plan and your hand predestined to take place before the foundations of the earth. And so I think when we think about the criticism that we get and the slander and the persecution that we get, we have to understand that those evil people are not just being used by Satan. They're actually also being used by God. Like, think about it. Think about it. He says Pontius Pollitt who who who who who asks for, he said,

do y'all want Barabbas or do y'all want Jesus? He said, God predestined Pontius Pollard to do that. Yeah. And not only that, he predestined to people, he predestined to people, the people of Israel to say, we don't want Barabbas to be set, to stand jail. We want Jesus to be crucified and free Barabbas. He said he predestined that too.

And so I think that when we think about like, even the public slander that we get, and how the public slander, you know, makes people turn against us. We have to understand that God is also using it for our good in the same way he was using it for the disciples good and glory. I'm sorry. Does it make sense what I'm saying? Yes. God.

God. I'm trying to word it in a way that is like it's basically what Joseph said. What the enemy meant for evil, God used for good. Yeah. Thank you, Lord. because I'm like, how do I say this in the way that doesn't sound? That's a good way to put it. Theologically.

Yeah. Because I think that when we think about evil, we disconnected from God. God's sovereignty. God's sovereignty. God isn't doing the evil, but God can, if he is a sovereign God, that means he can use all things, including evil. Yeah. Because I don't want to go on a rabbit trail, but remember I told you I watched that Piper sermon about, it's called something like how God uses Satan. Oh, yes.

That was a good. I would listen to that if I were y'all. We'll put it in a show notes because I think he says in there something about how how God uses evil or something like that or how God controls all things. And we have this. It's hard for us to wrap our minds around the idea that God can control all the things. But it's like if God does not control all things, including the devil, including demons, then we actually can't even pray against all things.

So I can't even pray for you to rebuke Satan if you can't control Satan. Yeah. I can't pray for you to deliver me from demons if you can't control the demons. Come on. Talk about it. And so to know that God is in control of all things actually anchors the fact that we can pray liberally. We can pray about everything. Yeah.

Yeah. Because he's in control of everything. Yeah. Yeah. That right there will set you free. That's so good. That's so good. And I would just say like I think I think it might be confusing because

somebody might say, well, where's men's free will in this? Like, if men are just going around doing evil, like, like, like, like, how, how is God sovereign over this? And it's like, that's what sovereignty is. Like, God is sovereign over, even the free will of men God uses. And if he doesn't use the free will of man, he's actually not God. And I think that's what providence is. It's when man's free will and God's sovereignty work together to bring about his glory. You know what I'm saying? And so that's good. What I was, going to say to your point and we can wrap up is if we were predestined to be conformed to the image of his son then that means that the things that God allows is all that's the good

that when we say that like all things will work out words for my good like that's the good is to look like Christ all things will work together for the good of those who love Jesus Christ meaning even all the bad things, it's only good in so far as I look like Jesus at the end of it. Okay? So if that is the goal, then one element of what God allows when he is allowing evil is he is usually untethering some type of attachment

to something that is not. Like we're treating a good thing too great. What I mean is for us, right? If you are a people pleaser, if you love praise, if you love glory, then God has to unleash Satan and his minions to use those same people

that you love too much to hate you. That's good. To untether you from their praise. That's good. Right? So if you're a person who loves money, who loves your job, he might make money funny or he might make the workplace a little difficult.

He's using the difficulty to untether you from the idolatry because he loves us. So the difficulty is actually a mercy. Yeah. That's all I'm trying to say. It's a mercy. So sometimes we're like, I wanted to put this on threads this morning where I was like, sometimes we want God to take the thing away.

But sometimes God wants us to endure it because God is trying to teach us, teach us something through it. So I don't know. I just, I think God is just all. He's using all of it, all of it. Because if we have, if we have that perspective, I think that perspective will shift everything because our prayers will be completely different. Yeah.

Right. Because I just talked about the boldness of Peter and John, right? And the only reason why their prayers became rational is because their thoughts became rational. Right. That was a rational thought that you just had. But we look in other scriptures, right? Before they even asked for boldness, before this happened happened in another scripture, they actually went and hid because they were afraid that they would go.

going to be crucified like Jesus now. It doesn't say what they what they went through when he was in a house hiding, but I'm pretty sure that they prayed and they probably prayed and ask God to deliver them out of, you know, this fear or whatever. And Jesus had the resurrected Jesus had to literally walk through the door and say, I told you all this was going to happen. And remind them that, that no, like I told you the son of man was going to be delivered into the hands of evil. And that if they hated me, they're going to hate you too. And so it's not let I'm not coming to your need is that your perspective has to change in order for your prayers to change and your expectations to change. And so that's really good. Yeah, it's that's why we can rejoice. It feels

crazy how many times the Bible was like rejoice when you face various trials and the testing of your faith. And it's just like, why would I do that? Why would I rejoice? Why would I have joy when life is hard? Like, why would I be happy when I'm depressed? Why would I lift my hands in worship when I'm I'm going through something. Why would I do that? And he's like, yeah, you can do that because I'm doing something. If I wasn't doing nothing, of course you shouldn't rejoice. But if I'm actually making you look like the Christ, that's why you can rejoice.

And in the rejoicing, it doesn't mean that it doesn't coincide with lament. It doesn't mean it doesn't coincide with sadness. It doesn't mean that it doesn't coincide with petition. He's using even that. Because even in the lament on top of the rejoicing, there is this dance where I am learning intimacy. That's good. in a way that I would not have otherwise learned it. So now when I go and worship, I am worshiping from a real place.

So when they sing that song, like God is good, it's not superficial to me anymore. I actually am singing it because I can reflect on the times where I actually now, oh, now I know his goodness when everything was bad. I saw it. So that's all. God is just, we wouldn't know goodness if we didn't see the trust. He's trying to make us grow up. Like we be wanting this Christianity that's all about gifts and prophecy and flexi and flexing.

on stage and making cute captions. God wants us to be Christians in the simple normal day-to-day stuff. Do you trust me when it's hard? That's Christianity. That's fire. That's fire. I think we can end on that. So I'll be off socials for six months.

I'll still be doing ministry. I got some events next year. Preston doesn't know how long he'll be gone yet. That also means that our podcast will not be happening for the next six months. because it just, I just, I just want to chill. He wants to chill. We want to refocus and, you know, pray and invest in our families in a particular way. Not families.

Our family. And we'll be back. Yeah, we'll be back in the summertime. So, I think. Yeah. We appreciate y'all. We appreciate everybody that came out to the tour. We appreciate y'all for listening, for subscribing, for commenting, for sharing, for praying.

Like, there was this one season, y'all didn't even. know so many of y'all was DM me that I was on your heart and y'all had no idea the degree of mental turmoil I was in and so I felt very cared for and lifted up by the saints and so yeah I appreciate yeah yeah well we love y'all see y'all next year yeah when the grass is dream peace with the paris is produced by the paris with support from Amanda reed and Channing McBrose video recording and audio production by Matthew Baxter and Xavier Fairley edited by the team at Tread lively artwork by hop and music by swoop thank you for listening now go with God