With The Perrys - The Devil is a Liar: A Conversation on Making War Against Lies with Jennie Allen

Episode Date: March 9, 2026

There are three core lies we all believe: “I’m worthless, I’m unlovable, and I’m helpless.” These beliefs can grow into strongholds that influence our thoughts and actions over time. Jennie Allen joins the Perrys to talk about how the enemy often makes lies like these feel rational and normal, and then we agree with the lies without realizing it. We need God’s Word and the truth of the Gospel to help us fight them. Jennie’s encouragement is that you are not especially broken because you believe lies. She says, “The reason the enemy comes for you is because you’re loved. Because you love God and He loves you, that makes you a target. Don’t let shame enter your story more than it already has.” Check out Jennie’s new book, “The Lie You Don't Know You Believe”  https://www.amazon.com/Lie-You-Dont-Know-Believe/dp/1400249821 Follow @JennieAllen: https://www.instagram.com/jennieallen/ Scripture references: 1 John 1:5-7 Matthew 4:4-6 John 14:30 John 16:33 Ephesians 6:10-13 This Episode is Sponsored By: https://fieldofgreens.com — Get 20% off with promo code PERRY https://timtebow.com/tree-perry/ — Get your copy of If the Tree Could Speak by Tim Tebow on Amazon today! - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So, St. Nates. What up, what y'all? Hope you're well. Hope you're good to go. I hope you got all the eye-bookers out of your eye if it's the morning time. Hmm. That's the thing. You know, we were just briefly talking about parenting, like 10 seconds ago.

And I genuinely do feel like we're in a stage that is trying to send me into mild psychosis. Just a little bit. It's just our children are just having, like, like, there didn't, like. like having different growth spurts, emotional. It's just, they just transitioning a lot. I feel like that's the part of it. Like Sage and August are becoming better communicators. Yes. So because they're better communicators, I'm four and five year old. They talking and they are, like even yesterday, I tell August, you know, because he's potty training, but he doesn't know how to use the potty during the nighttime. So I'm like, go, he puts his own pull-up on. Go on put your

pull-up on, you're about to go to bed. All, Sage, she's on the way up to the, stairs, she feels a way that he's not on the way up the stairs at the same time that she is. So she was like, August is in the pantry. I said, mind your business. August is in the pantry. He was like, yeah, mind your business. August, be quiet. And it's just like I feel like I'm always quenching.

You know what? The father has to feel like this about the church. I'm always trying to like create peace. You know what I thought about the other day? I was like, I was so encouraged because August is finally stopped being stubborn and started doing a potty training thing because it was a wrestle or whatever but i thought about it out because the other day august was going upstairs and i told him to go to bed and i'm like why you're not going to bed he said a guy used to bathroom and then i said oh okay but this is new for me that he's

going by himself i used the bathroom and i'm like i thought about it i was like for 11 years we've had diapers in our life hmm hiya you know like your kid yeah like for 11 years straight i didn't think about that we've had like i haven't even been married to you. Yeah, I haven't been... We had a honeymoon baby. I haven't been buying a white player.

So our whole marriage, we've had diapers. You're trying to help me rejoice. I'm trying to help you see the other side of the coin. I understand. You know what I'm saying? No more diapers.

No more Bubu. I get it. I just don't know how to... I don't know if you have a white shoe your child bud and Bubble got on your little pinky. That's nasty. No more of that.

Pinky is wildly specific. But speaking of that, I guess we can... Hey, Jenny. Hey, Jenny. You had... That was the transition. You did me.

Your jacket is brown. Because you had kids. And we know you had boo-boo on your hands once a bunch of time. I have had a lot of boo-boo. That's what I'm saying. Did you? And it did get on my peach. Because you got four, get three years?

And with a boy, this was new for you guys, that pee that sprays. Oh. When you're changing? I only got spray one time. You did not. My son loved. It's like he knew as a baby. Like, I'm a sprayer.

One time I was changing August when he was one and I saw his face. He was about the past. He said, you better not pee. He said, okay. I said, yeah. No, it's, yeah, I ain't having one time. And I had the diaper kind of like cropped up there, and so I called it before it hit me in the face. No more boo-boo on the pinky.

Wow. We rejoice. How are you today? How are you doing, Ms. Janet? No, I couldn't be better hanging out with you guys. That's good. Talking about poop. Uh-huh.

You came to us from Dallas, Texas. Ain't that's where you are? Yeah. Are you born? Where are you, like, raising down? I'm Arkansas. Oh. I'm Arkansas.

Okay. Years of my life. And then I'm married a Texan. Uh-huh. And he made me live in Texas. And I do love it now. Now I'm a Texan. We've been there forever.

We've raised our kids there. And now they're moving back. And I guess that's where we're all going to live. Moving back home. Like the Cosby Show. Like they're moving back to Dallas. Oh, wow. And did you pray for that?

Did I pray for it? I manipulated that. I forced that. I all but paid them money. I got four. Four? Yeah. What stages?

17, up to 26. We started really young and, yeah, knock that thing out. I'm very curious to see what our life would look like when our four children are in that, you know, older like that. You'll love it. I couldn't love it more. Yeah. They're my best friends. I mean, we hang out all the time.

I love that. It's so fun. Yeah. That's good. I dreaded every season. I thought, oh, no, they're going to leave. They're going to go to college. But it was so fun.

It was like watching a character from a TV show you love, like have a spinoff show, you know? And then you go on that show and you love that show. Like that shows all that. And you have new characters and all this. I mean, I loved college. I've loved everything. It's so fun. But this is the best because now no more boo-boo.

On the pinky. Now they're like, well, not, of course, they'll reproduce before I know it. You know, we'll be back there. My 11-year-old other day, she said, Daddy, you just want your girls to grow up so we can cook for you. Okay. Yeah. I don't really like that. Because I made a joke one day.

Oh. Y'all go cook for me or whatever. Handmaids. No. Absolutely not. I said, no. We want you to grow up and go make disciples. That's not all.

Yeah, stuff like that. But y'all, y'all, you don't want to kick me omelets and stuff, too. Jenny Allen has another book because she got about 26 of them. You know what I'm saying? You are a book writing machine. Library. You understand what I'm saying? There's been some writing in my life.

I love to see it. It is called the lie you don't know you believe. Means there's some blindness. There's some deception. there's some near-sightedness. Of all the things you could write about, why write about this? And I don't want to ask that in the boring podcast way, but like genuinely, getting into this kind of territory is not something people want to do.

Yeah, it's real. You know, it was kind of forced on me, and I'm sitting across from my daughter, actually in the Atlanta airport. and she starts just spilling all these feelings she has of feeling like I'm unusually broken, I'm defective. And this is my, at the time she's 20 years old. And she is phenomenal. I mean, she is making disciples.

She is in love with Jesus. She married the most unbelievable man. They're building their life together. She's a photographer. She's really good at it. And everywhere we go, people stop her. And they're like, hey, you know, everybody knows her.

I mean, she's worked hard at living a really beautiful life. And so she's sitting there telling me, like, I just feel so defective. Like, I don't think God can use me. And just saying all these phrases that are just breaking my heart. And honestly, it doesn't even make me sad. It makes me angry. And so I'm like ready to go preach at her, you know, and fix this. And she stopped me and said, you're my mom and you're supposed to feel that way.

want to hear it. And I was like, that, that to me meant she thinks it's true. Like, she won't even hear me tell her that's a lie because she actually thinks it's true. She's defending it. She's like manning up and standing by it, you know? Wow. And so that day, I had to, you know, well, of course, and I'm convicted at the same time because it's also the lie that I have believed and still do. Honestly, I don't know if I've ever fought my core law. like I did writing this book. It's just still here. And I'm not saying it certainly is not what it used to be.

Now I can name it. Now I can pray against it. Now I can know where it's coming from. I don't defend it anymore. I fight against it. But it still creeps in. And so I think that was where I just said, I've got to look at this.

I mean, what happened to me that day was I had all these questions. I was like, okay, do I believe in generational sin? Yeah. Have I like passed this down? Because we raised her totally differently than I'm. I was raised. I mean, it was celebration of all things. Like, she walks in, she's like, I came in 21st. You know, we're like, yeah. We were not like super critical people. Like, we just, we celebrated them. We loved their personalities. Like, it wasn't a place where

we made them feel that way. So I'm like, where did she get this? Like, her daddy delights in her. Like, she grew up with a dad that, like, thinks she's the greatest thing that ever happened to the earth. Where did she get this? And so that honestly, just a lot of times I'll write a book just because I'm curious. I want to know. And so for me, this was digging into where did this come from? How rampant is it? Do we all kind of have one core lie?

And I didn't know in the beginning if we did. And I strongly believe now that we do. And it's probably one that you don't even know because it's the way you've thought since you were five years old. Well, you saw the actual stuff, those questions did you think about or reflect about your childhood, the lies that you struggled with when you were. younger, yeah, I mean, I think for me, it was 12 years old. This is what I remember most.

12 years old, I'm sitting with my dad. My dad loved as my dad tucked us in every night. My dad did not mean to do what was going to follow in that conversation. But he just started asking me questions about middle school and boys and all these grades and all these things. And all I heard was these are marks that you need to hit. And so from that point on, I just, I think I lived feeling like I can't quite hit the mark. And so when I've looked, you know, I mean, mental health, I know we all care about that a lot.

And when I've looked into and done the research, it's like, man, like all humans have the same three core lies. And it's, I'm worthless. I'm unlovable. I'm helpless. Wow. And so those three things, you know, they, again, we know where this comes from, right? There's an enemy. But for me, yeah, I mean, I look.

back at my childhood. And for a lot of people, it's like six years old, something happened. And there was a belief set in motion at that time that feels true. Wow. I hope you're making time for your annual checkups and doctor visits and labs and blood work and all the things that tell us what is happening inside of our bodies. We have four children, so I want to stay healthy for them. But I always don't look forward to going to a checkup because I don't like to be checked up. None of us do.

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Because what's interesting is like having a conversation with your dad, you wouldn't think it would be that monumental. You know what I'm saying? Oh, he didn't even remember it. Yeah, but it's like your interpretation of the events and like how it shaped the way you viewed yourself and how you moved through life became way bigger than he intended than you anticipated.

And to me, that has to say that there's a huge, huge spiritual dynamic at play here. You know what I'm saying? But before we get to spiritual warfare, because we are going to talk about, you can't talk about lies without talking about the devil. I'm curious to know,

because you know Bible, how you see the correlize, like what do you think is the correlation between the correlates of helpless, worthless, being made manifest even in Genesis 3? What do you think is the relationship? Yeah, I mean, one,

we have all given license to the voice of the enemy, right? And so when you look at the devil in Genesis, you know, he introduces himself and he's cunning. I mean, he doesn't show up and Adam and Eve are scared of him or pushing back against him. He shows up as a friend. He shows up as someone helping them think rational thoughts, you know, lies feel rational. Wow. Yeah. And the enemy's good at that. He's good at just making it seem like this makes perfect sense. This is a normal question. I promise you to some degree, Eve was falling for what he said and not naive because I believe she was absolutely complicit. God had been clear. Do not eat of this tree. So she was complicit. But I promise you,

she didn't feel like it was a big deal. That day. Watch your mouth. Jenny Allen. Good, disgrace. Good. Disgracious. Go ahead. She didn't think it was a big deal. And isn't that all of us? Yeah. And I think that's why this felt important. Because I was like, if my daughter, and I certainly, I wrote it for her, there's no doubt. But I also wrote it for me because I was still like, why can't I shake this? So I'd written Get Out of Your Head, right? And that book, everybody likes that book, because that book is simple.

That book is interrupt a thought, you have a choice, interrupt it, be grateful instead of cynical. Right? Like it's a think this instead of this. Everybody likes that book. The problem is when there's a stronghold that has been there since forever, decades in your life. That doesn't shift as easily. You can't just interrupt a thought like that. Wow.

And so that's why I knew I would write this book when I wrote Get Out of Your Head because it was, to me, it was like the thing missing from that book. Because it works until it doesn't work. And when it doesn't work, what do you do? Yeah. Can you define stronghold for those who may have a thought about what it is that it isn't? Yeah. I mean, in this context, I'll just say it is something that you have believed for so long that it has bound you. And it has bound you where you, you know, what's really scary about a stronghold is one that you don't name or even knows there.

You know, that's the scary part of this. because it's just part of your psyche. It's just part of the way you think. Yeah. Because we're story people, right? We live in a story. Yeah. We think in a story.

We experience life through story. And a story was told. And that's what the enemy did. He told a story. Yeah, it's crazy because we're all essentially products of our past experiences. And I didn't realize how many lies I believed about myself until I started to go to therapy. Yeah. And my therapist began to give me language and to begin to help me to

explore all the lies. I just remember, you know, when I first got into ministry, just having this lie that I just sounded stupid when I talked in front of people. And then my therapist helped me realize that I remember when I was 10 years old, I was talking publicly and my dad was looking at me like he was ashamed. From that moment, I think the devil would try to plant a seed that you sound stupid, you know? But I think oftentimes, I'm glad we get into spiritual warfare. because the enemy, the devil, he doesn't know all things, but he still knows information. Right. And so I think the devil tries to plant seeds that will stop us from being who God called us to be.

That's the problem. Yeah. That's the cost. I mean, Preston, what if it stopped there? What if you really, you wouldn't be doing this? Yeah. I mean, think of all of the things that you have done because you defeated that life. Yeah.

Like, that's a motivation. It's certainly not the only one. I mean, another motivation is we don't want our kids. to inherit what we've believed. So I don't think Kate looked at me and felt my pressure to be more or my disappointment over her. Yeah. I think she watched how I was living. Wow.

Yeah, wow. I think she just saw how I strived and lived, and I think it was contagious. Sheesh. That's great. Okay, so I want to ask you a question. Back to that, Preston. I mean, 10 years old. How did it shift?

man you know long story short my mom and my dad divorced when I was four and I didn't see my dad until I was four till I was 10 like she just left and my dad wasn't in my life

the first year he got back in my life like a couple weeks later he gave me this look and I'm like anybody I want to be proud of me as you like you don't look at me like this you know wow and it's just a look it wasn't even a conversation it wasn't even a conversation I think was shifted I put on social media the day that I'm really looking I'm still looking for

this lady name Ms. Magnus. She, and it's crazy how God you use just people in your life or whatever. And so, long story show, my uncle was murdered.

He was the man I was living with at the time. He was kind of like a dad figure of my life. My dad, my natural father was just getting back into my life.

And I was just bad in school, fighting. You say something wrong to me. I would slap you. Like, that was just how I was. I was just very, I hurt a little boy

because, because my uncle's death. And they, assigned all the bad kids, mentors. And so she would shadow me in class or whatever. And she really helped my behavior because she just cared for me. She asked me questions when nobody else did. She was investigative.

And she said, write how you feel and I wrote how I felt. And she said, you're poetic. She's like you. She's like, you're using. How old were you then? I was 11. Oh, my gosh. And she was like, you're using metaphors and you're using language in a bit,

like in ways that I've never seen a kid like you use language. And then she said, write me a poem. And I wrote her a poem. And I wrote her a poem and I said it to her at our desk. And she just started crying. And I was like, wow, my words impact. So it was literally a year after my dad gave me that look. Right.

But I was like, my words actually impact someone. That's amazing. And I think, and then she told me, you're a poet. And she gave me a book by this woman named Gwendolyn Brooks. And it was the first time I fell in love in language. And I began writing poetry. good teachers. Amen.

Yeah. Yeah. And so I think God used that to help uproot a lot of that lie. It didn't uprooted at all. Yeah. But uprooted a lot of the lie. No, you have a voice. And it was already prophesied by my grandmother who went to the people of the Lord.

And I was five years old. She came to my mom and she said, the Lord showed me a vision of Preston, traveling the world, giving the gospel, and creating voice when I was five. And my mom had told me that my whole life. And I was like, oh, I stutter. I don't know. this is going to be true. So yeah, yeah.

I love that. Yeah, I don't even know where to go from there. Yeah. I think when it comes to what you carried and carry on occasion and what you were carrying and this idea of stronghold, I'm just thinking about like I could see somebody saying, what is the big deal? You know, what is at stake?

What if this perception of myself actually protects me or make sense, you know what I'm saying? And I think what is at stake is Christ in the sense of like a stronghold protects me from things that are outside of me. But like I don't want to be protected from God's freedom. I don't want to be protected from God's power. I don't want to be protected from God's truth. And so we have to do that exchange so that we can walk in all that God has called us to walk in.

You know what I'm saying? That's good. That's good. well, if you were believing a lie all your life, wouldn't you want to know it? Like, that's the scary part is we don't even know it. And so... Can you share the story about your conversation with your friend Lauren where you discovered some of that stuff?

Yeah. Yeah, it was actually Lauren Tomlin. Okay. And not to name drop. I didn't name drop in the book, but I'll name drop here. You did not. It just said Lauren. Lauren.

And I'm saying her name because I want to honor her. I mean, what she did for me, like I had heard her reputation. We got to be together, hang out somewhere. and she had, you know, her reputation is that she prays for people and they experience freedom. And so I just wanted to learn from her. I was just like, hey, I want you to teach me what you do because I have talked to people that it has changed their life. And so she goes, well, why don't we just do it?

You know, like, I'm not going to teach you. Like, let's just do it for you. And I was like, hey, you know, I'm good. I'm good. I don't have any problem, you know. But we did it. And, man, we were up to like 1, 2 a.m. And it was wild.

And so basically, she just asked me questions. I mean, it was kind of good therapy. I mean, she's just getting me to talk, and she's just seeing, like, what have you believed? And she gets me to say this line that I am nothing. And I remember around that time that Marvel movie, I'm a big Marvel fan. And at the end game, that movie had just, oh, no, the one before it. had just come out. I can't remember what it's called.

Anyway, not a Marvel fan. I'm so sorry. Well, in that movie, the way that evil, you know, the movie ends with really sad, dark ending, is they kind of evaporate. Like, they turn in the dust. And I couldn't watch that. I left the theater. I was, like, weeping.

Because that was my worst fear is that everything I'm doing is meaningless. I am meaningless. God doesn't see me. I felt like the envelope that fell behind the desk that, you know, I was like, I don't know that it's all real. I just like, and this, we're talking on a core level because I'm not a good faker. So I preach, right, about Jesus and the opposite of everything I just said. Yeah. And I mean it.

And there's still a part of me down really, really deep that came from things that I couldn't control in my life. And I really did believe that I was. was worthless and that nothing would matter. And when I said it out loud, oh, it was powerful. Because I hadn't, I had never said a line like that out loud until that night. And when I said it out loud, I mean, we prayed against it. It wasn't like fancy prayers. It was nothing, you know, woo-woo, it was just really strong authoritative prayers against this lie. But I walked away. and for me, just knowing that that was in there was helpful. Yeah.

Wow. And so then, so think of, like, all the times you just have a little fleeting, insecure thought or just a fearful, you know, you're heading into something that you should be excited about. You kind of feel dread, you know? I don't know why I feel dread about that. Think of those little feelings like that. That's all coming out of this core thing. And so, you know, when you think of, I remember she told me it, I called her when I was working on this book,

I was like, I just want you to know you. Like, you inspired this book. She was another one. And we talked about just dandelions and how they pop up and there's all these things. And you can keep plucking the dandelions. But if there's something core under it, it's going to keep growing back. Wow. And so you got to find the root.

Yeah. And so this is that for me. The story of Easter is the most beautiful story ever told. But sometimes because we know it so well, we move quickly past it and forget what it actually cost. What if this year you took a second and slowed down? If the tree could speak, invite you to experience the crucifixion from a perspective, no one has heard, which is the wooden cross itself. Written by Tim Tebow, it's beautifully illustrated in every page,

invites you to pause, to reflect, and feel the weight of that moment. It's a way to experience Easter differently, intentionally, thoughtfully, and with a fresh perspective. Even if you've heard the story a hundred times, this book will help you see it with fresh eyes. What you get from this work will stick with you long after you put it down, and you'll want to pick it up year after year as you prepare to celebrate Easter. As a poet, I personally love personification, the ability for somebody that's creative

to put a human aspect and relate it to something non-human. And I think he did this perfectly with this book. I mean, it's so creative to speak acid-free. It gives us a fresh and a new perspective and it makes us to think about the cross in a way that we didn't think about it before. So kudos to you, Tim Tebow.

This is dope. Step inside the story of the Crucible fiction, hear the witness and experience Easter like never before with if the tree could speak available on Amazon. We encourage you to check it out if the tree could speak by Tim Tebow, available on Amazon or you can keep the link in the show notes. I think that's my question, you know, like, because when you think about these laws that we've had with us for decades, you know, that we grew up believing, how does the, because I'm a visual person. And so I'm thinking about somebody like digging for the core, digging for that core lie. Because you could deal

with a whole bunch of manifestations of why you believe what you believe. But sometimes it's hard to, like, how did you get to the core of that law? How did you find it? And how do people find it? It simplifies it a little when you realize, you know, when I heard this from, actually heard it from a friend, a counselor friend that told me, you know, there's three core lies. And I didn't believe it. Then I go research it. I'm like, oh yeah, this is Psych 101. When I realized that, it helped a lot. I didn't believe her when she said it because I was like, I have a thousand lies. Like, I don't have one.

I don't have three. I have a thousand. And when I saw it in black and white, that helped me because I thought, okay, that helps it come down to a handful rather than a thousand. And so one thing that I needed to do early in the book and I knew it was just help people find it because it's not really simple. And honestly, most people hear those words. I'm like, I don't know if I relate to those words,

but they do relate to not feeling like they're enough. They do relate to being afraid to do the things God's put in their heart. You know, there's a lot of things that surround those things that just, I mean, like yours, it wasn't, I'm helpless, but it was, I don't speak well. It was something like that, but that manifests itself in a deeper way. You know, and I just think if we can figure out like what's driving us, then we can, you know, I mean, like even right now. So this year, if you can believe it, God is calling me to do some things that are really

uncomfortable for me. And I really feel like they're from him. And I know myself. And I don't want to work and strive out of my woundedness. And so I get to now, because I'm aware of it, I get to take that to people that know me and love me. And we get to process it together. so that I don't keep running and striving to hit a mark to prove that I'm finally worth something.

Like, I don't want to live that way. I still want to do what God's called me to do. And I think he's still called me to do things that could look like striving. But I got to know what my motivation is. And I've got to know that I'm doing this out of love and not out of woundedness. Wow. That's excellent. And so it's a good, it just helps to know it and name it and go, okay, I tend to

And I'll use this line all the time with friends. I'll say, I'm afraid that right now I'm speaking or acting out of my fear or out of my lie. And you can't believe how that changes a conversation. That acknowledgement. Yes. It just helps. It's like, oh, yeah, Jenny, I know you. I know you can tend to go into that.

Okay. That's good. And then it makes sense. It helps the conversation turn into something real. Yeah. And it's great that you're having a conversation with people and not yourself. That's right. We don't do well by ourselves.

Amen. I think talking about lies, nobody lies to us more than we do. And I think confessing things with other people, I think especially godly people. Yes. They can help you, not coddle you, not lie to you, but they can help you combat the lies of truth. Well, at the same time, keeping you accountable. So that's big. Yeah.

What is a lie? a belief that is shaping you. Can we talk about the devil? That would help. Yeah, I don't like that man, but we got to hear him out. Let's hear about. I mean, yeah, I mean, my middle school youth pastor, I'll never forget it. He was like, we don't talk about the devil too much.

No, we got to. And now I'm like, we, he's the father of them. He is scheming against us. He is scheming specifically against those that love God. Mm-hmm. And so there, I mean, if you think of strategy and scheming and war and he's making battle plans, like we should be reverse making plans against him. And so, you know, I've just seen, you know, what is a lie?

It's a scheme. It's a scheme to derail your whole life. It's a scheme that you would believe something untrue. Now, I mean, I think it's important to. talk about that there's a little bit of truth in everything the enemy sells us or we wouldn't believe it, especially strong believers that know their Bibles, right? Yeah. So there's a little bit of truth to the fact that I am worthless, right? I mean, scripture tells me I'm a blade of grass, you know, and I'm a grasshopper, you know? Like,

these are the things that, so there's, yeah, there's an element, but then in other places, it says that I'm the delight of God, and it says that God has plans for me and prepare them in advance before I was even formed in my mother's womb. And so there's way bigger story that says I'm invaluable to God, that I'm so valuable that he would die for me. So, you know, but there's enough of a truth to go, yeah, and we do this as Christians, right? We're like, I'm just a sinner.

I'm just, I don't matter. You know, don't look at me, look at Jesus. We say things like that all the time. And I know what's behind it and it's true. We don't do well with glory. Like we're not made to carry it. We're not suited for it, you know? So I know that that's behind that and that's true.

But also we can take it so far like everything and just all of a sudden be. Because the problem is if we are worthless, then we won't ever do the things God called us to do because we will be despondent. And that's not what he wants. how it God wants. Because to your point, it is that work of identifying what is true and untrue all at the same time. Yeah. Because even when you spoke to, I'm not enough, it's like, yeah, we're finite. So for sure. And we don't measure up on our own. You're not alpha and omega. Yeah. But when that not enoughness moves you into compensating by finding your own fig leaves instead of being covered in Christ, it's at that point that I'm also walking, not just in a lie, but unbelief, which is offensive

to the Lord, you know what I'm saying? So it's like, I think identifying the lie and the truth and moving into the scriptures and saying, okay, I'm weak and you're strong. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, I feel worthless, but I'm also made in the image of God. Yes, it's both. Yeah, like we got to do that word. Right.

The lie beneath the lie, which is a whole chapter in there, is that I could have control. I'm not helpless. I could have control. Well, that's not true. That's good. That's another lie. That's good. You know, the lie of, the lie under I am worthless is I could finally matter on my own.

Yeah. The lie under I'm unlovable is I finally could make everybody like me and get the approval that I'm so craving. And so the way I set up the book, you know, I realized pretty quickly, I'm like, I can't just, you know, I already tried the Bible, the slapping the Bible verse on things. And it just doesn't work long. I'm not saying that you don't need it because, goodness sakes, like, I fight lies with truth every day. But I believe the truth will set you free is a bigger truth in a Bible verse. It's understanding the two kingdoms. It's understanding that there's two princes of two kingdoms.

It's understanding that there's oxygen and there's commodities in both kingdoms. And when you really shift kingdoms, that's when you get free. Sheesh. Break that down. Keep going. Yeah. Yeah. So truth setting you free is I don't have to live. If you're going to live for this world under the prince of this world, you need to measure up.

And if you're going to live in this world, you need to figure out how to get approval. That's all you've got. And you better control everything that you can. And when you can't, you're in trouble. Because all you have is this world and the things in it. And that's where I was like, I have tasted another way. But it is waking up to a totally different kingdom. And learning it. And that kingdom is not getting fed to us. Yeah. Right?

Every day, the kingdom of this world is getting fed to us. You need to matter. You need to be important. And it is exhausting. And even on your most important day, it will never be enough. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's the power of his life is he'll make you chase something your entire life,

never get it or get it and realize it wasn't enough. And it's so exhausting because I hope this makes sense. like lies are so consistent. It seemed like you are consistently hit with lies morning you're reminded of the truth at times. Always. But one thing I've learned about the truth, the truth doesn't have to be loud.

The truth doesn't have to beat you over the head because when it comes, it literally, it does work that lies can't do. So the enemy has to just consistently throw lies at you because the enemy knows how powerful the truth is, right? And so I think just understanding that, like understanding the kingdom of darkness is always at work because the work of the kingdom of God is just so potent and so, you know, when it comes,

it changes. Well, and it's the only thing that sets you free. So let's say that it's a day that I'm striving, right? So, I mean, no doubt, like the day this book comes out, I'm going to look at the Amazon numbers. Like, I'm going to, there's a day, you know, and I'm going to hope that it hits a mark. On that day, I will look at those numbers and then no matter what they say, you know, in plenty or in need, I will know.

know that my confidence comes that I did this out of obedience. Yeah. I didn't do this to hit New York time. I didn't do it for these reasons. I did it out of obedience. Yeah. And if it helps 100 people, if it helps one, that is good because in this kingdom, that is the commodity.

Faith and obedience are the commodities. And so it brings me, it pulls me out, it yanks me out on a day like that to go, okay, I don't have to live for this. I'll be tempted to. My brain will run and spin. I get to leave it. And I get to go over here and go, nope, my worth isn't coming from my success. Yeah, yeah.

And the only reason that's true is because there's a whole other kingdom that I'm living for that's going to go on way longer than this one. In the path of obedience, you know, and loving the truth and loving the Lord and submitting to his lordship and authority, there's always going to. to be an enemy. Yeah. You know, who is really consistent with communicating the same thing that he just want to wear you down until you finally surrender to his will.

And I say that because I had a sermon at Passion recently where I talked about how like from the beginning of Jesus ministry to the end of his ministry was the same assault on how because he is this, he should save himself. Because you're the son of God, because you are the Christ, because you are the Messiah. you should save yourself, which is an attack, which is, it's demonic. You know what I'm saying? And I'm like, man, this carried him throughout his whole ministry. But he kept fighting and he kept surrendering and kept like, you know, being Jesus.

My question with you is, when you started to discover your core lies, what did the opposition look like? What was that resistance? It was. Heat it up. I mean, it heated up. I think I'm more tempted in some ways than ever to fall for it. And yet, you know, Alaya is actually an invitation to need God. Because a lie produces fear.

A lie produces insecurity. And those are always invitations to go, I need God. I can't do this by myself. And so that's how I see it now. That's totally different. It's not that they don't hit me. It's that now I know where to go and I know what to do. And I'll notice it usually in my body.

It's usually, for me, it's my stomach or my chest. jaw. Like I'll grit my teeth or I'll feel like a little anxious butterflies in my stomach. And I've learned to notice it quickly and to notice it in such a way that I don't want to live in that. I remember I was talking to one of my spiritual mentors recently. And I said, I mean, this is so bad that I can't, I don't even know. Let's just talk about it because I think it's really deceitful in my brain that I believe this. But I'm still working through this one. that I'm always going to struggle with this. And is that a gift because it makes me need God?

Like a thorn. Yeah. And, you know, he was kind of feisty. And he was like, this isn't true. This isn't what God says. And I don't mean struggle with it like it's still a stronghold. It's not. Like, it doesn't define me.

It doesn't limit me. I know what to do with it. I know how to name it. I know how to bring it. bring it into a Tuesday night conversation with my girlfriends. Like it doesn't, it is not a stronghold anymore. There's no doubt. Praise God.

And I'm still getting pinged with it. Wow. And so what do I do with that? And is it going to always be this way? And it's funny, like as he's prayed for me and other people have prayed for me, I have experienced more and more freedom. So I do believe we can get to a place. where these things are not plaguing us.

It's like a taunt. Oh, yeah. Because, like, actually, you brought up the wilderness. That's what I studied. Like, when I went to the Bible, I was like, okay, where was there a full-on confrontation between Jesus and the devil? Like, we need to know. This is a full-on confrontation with the devil.

So how do we deal with it? And that was rich, you know? I mean, that was the place. Yeah. Quickly. Yeah. Like, Luke 4 is a thing for me. Because I'm like, this is what it's like to, one,

bear up under temptation, like to enter it. Like even the Lord's prayer like praying, Lord, please deliver me from temptation. Don't deliver me into evil, all the stuff. But there are times where it feels like you are entering into temptation. And I don't mean that in the sense of opening up doors for sin. I mean being under such attack and assault emotionally and mentally and socially where it's just like, Lord, can the man leave? And I love that at the end of that passage, it says, and the devil left him.

You know what I'm saying? So there are times where the Lord, I think, will also relieve you and deliver you. That's right. I've tasted it. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Go ahead.

You go ahead. No, I was just going to say, like, I think exposing the devil is very good because I think we need to expose the lives of the devil. I don't like him. Right. But I also think it's a reality that the devil often partners with our flesh. That's right. And I think, I think we can't talk about the devil without talking about our flesh.

Because I think a lot of times when he lies to us, he lot, like, like, he, he, he, like, our flesh and the devil is often friends, right? If he's telling you, these people don't love you. It's like it's probably something in you that doesn't really want to trust people because you're trying to protect yourself and you don't want God to protect you, you know? And so like talk about all the ways in which we can kill our flesh so the enemy, I guess, doesn't have that much to work with. Yeah, because it's like.

Does that make sense? Yes. Oh, oh, it's scary. I think people underestimate how much holiness and righteousness is also warfare. A protection. Yes. It is a, yes. Righteousness is this beautiful protection in your life.

And, I mean, not that any of us achieve it, but we fight for it, right? Like we notice when we're, you know, coveting or lusting. Yeah. You notice it early and you root that out. That's a lot different than. 20 years into an addiction. Yeah. So protecting yourself early and pursuing holiness.

I mean, I have gotten weird about it where I'm like, okay, I did this the other day. This was like last week. I sensed a lot of resistance in my life. I saw I was kind of falling back into worldly mindset. And I was in my car. And I just out loud, I'm like, okay, God, I will sell anything I need to sell. I will repent of anything I need to repent of. And I literally walk through my life and I'm like,

I will get rid of anything I need to get rid of. You got to show me. Yeah. And he convicted me of something. And I laid it down. And it had been something small. It wasn't a big, big sin. It was he had whispered something I was supposed to give up.

And I just kept picking him back up. And it wasn't evil. it was just, you know, it was just, I mean, I'll just tell you, it was social media. Yeah. And it was like, oh, okay. So I cut it out again. And it was like, oh, okay. I feel that freedom come back.

Now that is a small picture. Can you imagine how much, you know, when you're talking a strong, but let's be real, that's not a small thing. Yeah. That's a stronghold thing right now. Yeah. That's where a lot of our lives are coming from. Yeah.

But then, you know, there's, there's all these other things too. Because I got a question for both of y'all, right? Oh, oh. So, like, do you think that disobedience is the number one thing that gives the enemy access to begin with to even lie to us? Because I've had something like that similar happen to me where the Lord, when came to Jack and I was like, I felt like the Lord is telling me to do something crazy. Like, like, I had something in my possession, and I felt like the Lord was telling me to burn it. Like, like, some shoes. Some shoes.

And I'm a sneaker head. And, he's burning shoes. It had to be the Holy God. I love that example. But listen to, listen to me, Miss Jenny. I am not that type of person at all.

Do you see what I'm saying? And so, like, I feel like that, old person, I'm like, that's extra. That's stupid. I didn't grow up in church. I didn't grow up in churchy. None of that. And so I got these shoes in the mail.

And then when I got them, they were so beautiful. But then I realized that they were called voodoo. And it was like Shut up. Literally, literally,

basically the concept was like a voodoo doll that they kind of like took apart and made a shoe. And I was like, this is the devil. Okay. I get rid of those. This is the-

Are those in this house right now? You get rid of them. No, no, no. This is how the devil gets us. He often allures us with beautiful things. Yeah. Right? And so I'm like,

these shoes are so beautiful. I started doing my research. And I was like, and I did not want to throw those shoes. away. And I felt no peace. And I felt so much attack mentally and all the things. When I burned, I felt like the Lord was telling me, go in your backyard, put them in a fire pit and burn them. I'm like, this is crazy. And I did it. And I felt peace. And I felt like the torment and all the stuff was gone. So I guess I'm asking like, like obedience. I feel like limits access.

Yeah. Yeah. And so what do you guys think about that? Do you think it's true? Like, I think it, I imagine that obedience does not necessarily limit opposition. Yeah. Because the enemy is definitely wanting you to withdraw your surrender and your obedience and your faith in Christ. So I would argue that the more you are fruitful, the more resistance you might get to that fruitfulness. But I also think that the more you lean into God's strength, God's love, God's care, God's scriptures, then you actually have the stamina to resist what he's resisting you with. Does it make

sense? And one of the scriptures, I feel like it's important, is first John five. This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you that God is light and in him is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie, so we become the liars and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus, his son cleanses us from all sin. I don't, darkness is where the devil is. Light is where the Lord is. If I'm in the devil's territory, then I can't be surprised when he's not going to be

upside to head. Yeah, yeah. But if I'm in the light, then I just, I just got different strength. And I think the difficulty, this is, I think this is the struggle of human Christians is I actually prefer darkness. That is still, that's what the sinful nature is. I still prefer that why, because I have control over there. I don't have to have faith over there.

But over here's where the freedom and the peace is. You get what I'm saying? Can I say something about that control? I had a dream the other day and I kind of shared, I shared. Oh, about the demons that hated us? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's probably accurate. Yeah.

For sure, accurate. But I shared it with one of my mentors, and I didn't share this part with you, but I shared it with him. And in the dream, I didn't see the devil, but I felt like the, the, the, I felt the enemy, I heard the enemy say, the people have got, a lot of people of God are still getting bullied. Yeah. The only difference now is that they think that they're in control. Wow. I make them think that they're in control.

Wow. And I think, I think that's what the devil does. That was a little dream? Yeah. I think that's what the devil does. I think he lies like, because, because he, he, he uses things. people to come in our lives to plant seeds and our lives to bully us. And then when we are in Christ, he hits us with a different, this, the devil's crafty. He makes you think you're in control,

but you're still getting bullied. You're still getting bullied out your legacy. You're still getting bullied out your marriage. You're still getting bullied out your friendships. Right. You just think that you're in control now. Right. That's the only difference. And so like I think, I think the enemy lies to us consistently. Yeah, I mean, you see it. You see it in the temptations of Jesus. He talks. He talks. He talks. wants him. Yeah. If you are God, why don't you do this? If God loved you, he would do this. It was, it's a haunt. And so I think we need to be prepared for those. That that is going to come and it's going to cause us to doubt. It's going to cause us. But back to the verses you just read, you know, I've been feeling like John the Baptist out there because have been, have been, you know,

doing the, you know, college campuses and confession and repentance. And what I can say, and then we've been baptizing. And I'm telling you, the darkness has never been darker. Talk about that. The things I see. You was all, I kept seeing you. I said, Jenny is at somebody's university? We're dipping somebody in the water.

Yes. It's revival. It's the most miraculous thing I've ever seen. Talk about. What are you seeing? We've been on 20-something campuses. This is with a ministry called Unite. Mm-hmm.

And that my friend Tanya started. And I couldn't believe it. I mean, we started in Auburn. She prayed that God would do something special at Auburn and invited us. It was me and Jonathan McLuda. And we were like, oh, she's never done this. I don't know. And again, I couldn't even do it.

I had a conflict. Turns out she finds a way she gets us there. And the stadium's full. It's like 6,500 students at night. And we end up baptizing 300 students in a dirty pond. spontaneously. And that just started. And all these schools have called and said come. And student led, they invite and they market, they do it all. And I mean, it's pretty insane. Like we show up at secular universities, Florida State University. And one at second leading party

school. They took the students thought of this. They took buses around, picked up drunk people and said, free concert. Trick them. Get them in the room. And by the end, their hands are up and we're baptized in some of them. I mean, they, they want God. Here's the thing. is they've lived in the kingdom of this world in a big way. So the darkness is getting darker. I'm baptizing kids that say my mother's a witch. She has cursed me my entire life. And I don't even know what freedom feels like,

but you tell me God loves me and I want that. I'm sitting there watching her eyes, her face. I baptize her, she comes up and she looks physically different. I can't make up this stuff. Like it is insane. the darkness, the abortions that are confessed. It's so simple, and this is what I believe is about. I mean, in fact, tonight I'm on my way to San Antonio

where this pastor called me and said, Ginny, I don't know what's happening, but it feels like revival. They've had these prayer nights for three weeks. This will be fourth week in a row. And people are parking a mile and a half away to get in. They are confessing their sin, there's salvation, there's baptisms.

It's very participatory, right? That's what we're doing with students. That's what I believe is about to happen with the church. it is repentance. It is taking the darkness and exposing it. It is saying out loud. I mean, they say out loud what they have dealt with. And we're not talking about, you know, people pleasing.

We're talking about, you know, sexual addiction. We're talking about Molly. We're talking about, you know, addictions that they feel like they're powerless over. Wow. That's beautiful. You know, a few weeks ago, I don't remember where we were. It's starting to all run together. But this guy walked up to me is probably seven foot tall.

It looked like it to me. And he's got tears in his eyes. And this is what he said. He just looked at me. He said, I never knew Jesus loved me. You would think you knew. 101, y'all. They don't know that God loves them.

They think God's disappointed in them. All they see is their shame. All they see is. And so when they name it out loud, when they say it, and then they hear Romans 8-1, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ, Jesus. They want God.

Jesus. And they want that other kingdom. because they're sick of living in what they've been living in. Yeah. Yeah, that's why evangelism is so important. Oh, Lord. I mean, it's time for it, y'all. The harvest is ripe.

Yeah. For all of those listening that wonder or find that hard to do to share your faith, this is the moment. This is the time. People want God in a unique way. I have a pastor. He became my friend because he just booked me to his church every year. But last year, he lives in Alabama,

and they hired him to be like the campus, like, slash pastor. Alabama State University. And a couple of weeks ago, they just had like a revival on campus. And so just the other day, three days ago, I went out there. And it's, I mean, they're on fire. But it's like young adults, unchurched, never heard the gospel. And it's like, wow, like we've been in bondage. And just people are tired.

They're just tired. And I think that's what I saw in a lot of the people. It's like they were just tired. and they finally found a place where they can have real rest. Yeah. And I think that's the reason why we need people to come with the gospel and just give truth because they just, they're tired of the lives, tired of the, you know, the strongholds and all the things. It's the mercy of God to lose everything in this life, to realize it doesn't work.

Yeah. And to get to the end and see that God's the only way. And a lot of them feel that way. Yeah. That they have just gotten to the end. and the suicide ideation, the suicides that are happening. I mean, it's on campuses, it is terrifying right now, the hopelessness. Yeah, wow.

I have so many places I can go. But I want to talk about the gospel and how the gospel helps us prefer truth. It helps us to exchange lies for truth, like helps it, like how the gospel is really. the avenue by which we experience freedom within ourselves and are able to communicate that freedom to others. Can you just speak about, I don't know, how the good news plays a part in all of this. Let's go back to the temptation because when you think about how he responded, you know, I mean, that's, I just lived in this passage. And when you think about how he answered, you know, it was, yeah, Luke four, I mean, it's in Matthew as well, but we'll go to Luke

for. When you think about he's taunting him, he's not eaten for 40 days. I actually believe that he was in a very spiritually strong place, but physically weak when the devil comes. But I think we tend to think, oh, he came at his weakest. And I'm like, actually, he probably came, the devil probably came at Jesus's strongest. And so what does he say? And he starts, I mean, he quotes him scripture, like throughout this. He starts with a kernel of truth. You got to look for. Yeah. And so then, you know, Jesus responds with a worldview.

Yeah. A deep belief that this kingdom is not it. Mm-hmm. That he was content giving up everything in this kingdom for the next. Yeah. And that is surrender. Like that's what he's calling us to. And so his answers were just scripture.

You know, you shall worship the Lord, your God, and him only shall show. you serve. Like he replies with scripture and he's just, he's, he's reframing, I think, for himself and all of us. You have to think, nobody was there, but angels, Jesus and the devil. Yeah. Jesus left the wilderness and told his disciples all of this. Most things recorded were recorded by the disciples. This moment, Jesus had to tell somebody. And so he found it important. And it was a model of how we would do this and it is answering with a worldview.

It is saying, I do not serve you in this world. I serve God and I weigh on him and what he has for me. And then he says, you know, that over and over again he answers. In fact, I think I like the Matthew passage better. I think Matthews, that's when the animals or something. Yeah, so man shall not live.

So he offers him bread. I mean, he's starving. That's how he starts. Man shall not live on bread alone. He's saying there's something bigger. And I think this is what we've got to do. When we feel taunted, when we feel the lies, when we are stuck in them, there's something bigger. Yeah.

Yeah. There's a different world to live for. Yeah. And that's what he did. And then he says, yeah, he puts him on top of the temple. And he says that he'll give him all these kingdoms. And he says, man should not live all. Yeah.

And then his answer is, um, y'all, I can't see. help. You need some glasses? Matthew four. I'm looking for a scripture in my phone. I'm sorry. I was still in Luke. Matthew for her.

Yeah. Matthew for what? I mean, let's just look at some of the ones. I mean, so he says, Man, should not live all bread alone, but every word that comes out of the mouth of God. Yeah, and then his next one, what's he say? That's the devil takes him to the temple and he says,

yeah, if you are the son of God, throw yourself down for it is written. He will command the angels concerning you. And he's just taunting him. Yeah, with lies, yep. On their hands, they will bear you up. At least you strike your foot against the stone. Yeah.

Jesus said to him, again, it is written, you shall not test the Lord your God. And he just kind of goes back to, we're not going to play these games. Yeah. So when you see it as games, when you see like this whole thing is a farce. Yeah. It is set up for you to buy in and for you to sell your soul to it. Yeah. And we're all saying yes.

And I'm talking about the Christians. Yeah. We're saying, yes, I will live for mattering today. Yes, I will live for the approval of people. Yes, I will live to try to control my life so I don't feel pain. Yeah. And Jesus's answer to the devil was, I'm not going to play these games. Yeah.

Like I know what God says and I'm going to live for it. It is Daniel, right? It is, I'm going to live in the world but not be of it. I'm going to be here, but I'm not going to be intoxicated by it. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to live for something. that is wholly different. And how did Daniel do? I love Daniel. Daniel talking about holiness. I mean, he cut out anything worldly. And I'll say this. As I keep going, kind of like the shoes.

I feel like God keeps saying, you're going to cut this out. You're going to cut this out. And I'm like, that's not, that thing's not bad. He's like, I don't care. I'm calling you to more. And the more that I am calling you to, you can't play games. It's not that it's all evil. Yeah, you have freedom. Lots of people do have freedom to do that thing that you want to do. You don't. You don't, because I have called you to something more. And if we start thinking that way, it's like, it's kind of like that old saying that people used to say about dating, like, how far's too far and that kind of question. It's like, that was the wrong question.

You know, it's like, how far can I flee from immorality? Like, that's the right question. And so then it's like, that's how it is with all the things in the world now. It's like, why am I playing games? Why am I dabbling? Why am I touching something that could lead to an addiction? I don't want that. I want to live for the kingdom.

And I don't want to miss whatever he has for me here. And I'm going to miss it. I won't know it. I won't know what I'm missing. But I will in heaven because he prepared good works for me to do that I'll see. Yeah. I'll be like, yeah, yeah, you were messing around. You're playing games.

Yeah. And I think what this shows us, like, for me, I can't read the scripture without thinking about 1 John when it says, do not love the world, know the things of this world. For if any man love the world, the love of the father is not a him. he tells us what the world consists of all that is in the world is the lust of the flesh, less of the eye and proud of life. And it's not a coincidence that the devil attacked them with all three of those things. Yep. Right. He attacked him with the lust of the flesh.

If you're, right, because he's fasting. He's hungry. He's hungry. So he attacked his flesh, the lust of the eye. Look at all the kingdoms of the world. Like, you know, I'll give you all of these things. It shows us that the enemy does have things to offer us. And he's typical. And he's very typical. It's not really new. So he's testing us. us with, in our weaknesses, you know what I'm saying? So this is the reason why, like, Jesus shows us to your point, that being kingdom-minded, helps us resist the devil in his lives and his temptations when he comes, you know, and know that he comes.

I know that he comes here, where it says, I don't know if it's here where it says he look for an opportune time to come back. So he's coming back, but he will. What's that last, last? What's the third one? The last one is, you said less of the flesh, less of the eye and the- Pride of life. Oh, yeah. The pride of life, yeah.

Yeah. Pride feels good. What I like about that list is because only one of those things is the obvious. Probably jumping off the thing. Or? Well, the last one, the last one is, yeah, jumping off and he's going to save you. Yeah. And there's a reality of, oh, no, all the kingdoms. I'm going to get to you.

And so there's a reality of like he will have all. those kingdoms. Yeah. And he will die and God will restore him. Like all these things will happen. Yeah. It's just not now. But we are people that are now people. Yeah. And we want it all now. And that, you know, hope deferred is, I think about heaven almost every day. My team calls me morbid, you know, because I think about death way too much. But it drives me. It drives me. Yeah. And I want heaven to go well. But for heaven to go well, I have to defer some things now.

And that's what Jesus did. I mean, he could have had all of those things. Yeah. You know the scary thing about that passage to me? And we can talk about this. I know this is something we talked about offline that we want to talk about more. How much power the devil did have. Yes.

He had the power to give him those kingdoms. Yeah. He offered him things that were in his domain. remain in dominion. He did. So I don't, I mean, I don't know if we want to talk about that. No, to me it would say that every time you, yeah. Because I think we underestimate him. Yeah. He's not as strong as God, but he got strength. He's got more strength than us. Yeah, like, apart from God. Yeah. I've had prayers. I remember it was probably a month ago and I was just wrestling with some stuff. And I was just like, Lord, he's stronger than me. I was like, he's strong. I was like, you have to. I was like, you have to.

to protect him from me, like protect me from him. I don't, I don't have the resources within myself apart from you to fight him. These are ancient beings. Yes. They have been around a lot longer than us. Yeah. And they have been strategic and schemed and they have seen humanity generation after generation. They are not confused as to what gets us.

Yeah. Yeah. They're very smart. Oh, yeah. And I think that's like reading this, like that I set with that for weeks of like, did he have all that power? Could he have, if Jesus would have said yes, could he have, and it's like he's the prince of the world. I mean, there's a lot of power that he has. And I think we underestimate it and then we get defeated by it and we're surprised.

But one thing this also shows us is that one of the number one lies that the enemy, that the enemy attacks people with is convincing them with this lie that the things that you have obtained is a blessing. Yeah. What do you mean? Like, like, like, like riches. Like some people feel like, oh, God is blessing me. as if the devil doesn't have things to give you as well. It's like, no, no, you're not being blessed by the Lord. You're actually being given things by somebody.

To tempt you to care about this world more than. And to throw away and to forfeit your soul. Yeah. And we think about the world. We think about a war shows when people get on the stage and say, I want to thank God for all my blessings. It's like, no, you talk about sin and death all day. I don't think that's the Lord, right?

That's the enemy having kingdoms to offer you. That's right. But if we're honest, we do the same thing in a church. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like we're saying we're Christians, but we're not living for his kingdom. We're living for our own fame, our own resources, our own, you know, all the things. And it might not necessarily be the Lord giving us things, but the enemy.

The questions, because of what you're saying, the questions I've been asking myself lately are, is this a good thing that the enemy has brought for me to do that looks like a God thing? And it is going to steal my joy, my peace, my soul. Yeah. Because how great. I mean, I just think we can put God's name on things exactly like you're saying, and it is coming straight from the devil. Would you say that's a way to recognize if it's not a God thing,

if you don't have peace, joy while doing it? I hope to recognize it before I'm in the middle of it. But yeah, as soon as I do recognize that, I mean, I'm a slasher. Like my team, we don't hang on to things. It's like, we're not doing that anymore. Yeah. We're just not doing anymore. Yeah.

But I'm trying to protect from even getting to that point, right? Yeah. Of just before I even step. But I mean, you know, God doesn't always write in the sky and say it real clearly. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah.

And so that's where motives I think can play, like this conversation is so helpful because it's like, am I doing this out of? Yeah. And the Lord, I mean, so. Psalm 139, search my heart, you know, let me know if there's any unclean way in me. Yeah. I think relying on God's illumination, a lot, like saying, if I'm off here, show me, you know, because I'm not that good at interrogating myself. And so even, I even need independent on the Lord to show me the reasons I'm doing things.

You know what I'm saying? But what I wanted to encourage people with is that Satan is relentless. Satan is strong. Satan is smart, but he is also defeated. And I think we have to know he's defeated because even after you listen to this podcast and you got all excited

because Jenny Islander told you about your court lie and how to fight it, he's around the corner like, all right, let's see how strong. You know what I'm saying? I know what it's like to be excited and zealous and feel urgent about coming against the things

that have been holding me down and then immediately get knocked off my feet. You know what I'm saying? And so I just want to encourage you in knowing what Jesus says. Two things. In John 14, Jesus is talking to his disciples, verse 30. He says, I will no longer talk much with you for the ruler of this world is coming, the devil. He has no claim on me.

What I love about that is that like, get. Satan might be strong, but he ain't stronger than Christ. That's right. He has, there was no access, there was no territory, there was no claim that he had on him. But also in John 16, Jesus says in verse 33, I have said these things to you that in me, in me, in me, united with him, you may have peace. In the world, you will have tribulations, temptations being a part of that. But take heart, I have overcome the world. And so I think we have to constantly be reminded of the truth that God has overcome the world, including all the things that I am tempted to believe about it.

Yeah. Yeah. That's all. Yeah. I mean, to me, there's two ways the devil works. And I've heard this said. I don't know who said it, but it's not original. He's subtle and quiet and you never notice him.

Or he blows himself up so big that you're scared of him. Yeah. And honestly, most of my life it was. the first. And recently, in the last few years, it has been a second. I have seen spiritual warfare. Our family has felt it. We have been in and out of hospitals at a speed and rate that is insane. My immediate family, it is, I mean, it's crazy. My husband, it feels like he's had two times where I thought he was going to die. My son, they think he has colon cancer. Then they think he has epilepsy, totally unrelated. Like, we are, it's like we're just getting chased and

pummeled and nothing's sticking, but it's scaring me. And it feels like the more I obey him, you know, I say I feel like Lucy in Narnia. And I'm saddled up and I'm like, Aslan, wherever you go, I'm riding, like, we're going to go. And it's exciting. And there's so many cool things. And God is moving and I'm dunking kids left and right. And I'm watching God bring revival. And I'm seeing the global church. Like I've never seen the global church. And I mean, my high points and and what I've seen of God is beautiful and spectacular. And the warfare that has an accompanied all of it, the monsters and the witches and Narnia are real too.

Yeah. And I think that he has felt bigger to me lately. And it has scared me and it has made me. There have been times that I've known God wants me to do something and I literally don't want to do it because I know I'm going to have more warfare. And that just makes me tired. Yeah.

And so you're right. That is the most important thing. He has no claim. He does not win. And, you know, God is with us. Like one thing God showed me recently was I felt like he leaves me when I'm getting attacked. And it's like, no, I'm covering you. Like in this world, you're going to have trouble still. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I've got you. And nothing he can do to you that I don't give my permission. I mean, Joe. Right? That is my comfort. Yeah. Like some. Kind of. And it also scares the crud out of me. For sure. Some attack is.

could be God's affirmation. You know what I'm saying? But what I, what has been helpful for me is to think, like to think about temptation and spiritual warfare and opposition as additional opportunities to get to know God. That's right. You know what I'm saying? Like this is also something that you want,

like there is a sanctifying component in all of this. I'm sharing in Christ's sufferings because he had to fight this man too. But I'm also being purified in my wife. That's right. You know, like my why is becoming a bit clearer because I think in the last two or three years of my life, I have never experienced this degree of opposition publicly, relationally, internally, mentally. But my why is different.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? My wisdom is different and my concern for the church is different. Like my strategies for ministry have changed because I'm like, I want people to endure and laugh. That's right. And it's like, it's something about. the Lord and Jesus that we got to tap into if we want to win. So I want to read Ephesion 6. Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might, put on the whole armor of God

that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers. It's tears to these. They got hierarchies. Right. Over this present darkness against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Therefore, take up the whole armor of God that you may be able to withstand in the evil day and having done all to stand firm. So I am thankful that the Lord is with us. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like if he wasn't with us, this whole conversation would be very despairing. Yeah, it would be like, oh, we just, he's going to pick us all one by way. Yeah. And one little simple truth that I'm walking away from all that was said,

especially a lot of the things that Jenny said is that God is sovereign. And oftentimes in his sovereignty, he wants to use the lies of the enemy to remind us of truth, to remind us of the truth about himself, to remind us of who he's called us to being, why he's called us. And so God doesn't waste anything. And so he even wants to use lies to remind you of who he is. And so, uh, run to keep, keep running to Jesus in the midst of the lives because the more the enemy lie to you and the more you turn to Jesus, you're going to learn more about him, learn more about your purpose. Well, yeah, and the answer to all of it is in him, right?

There's no other answer. It's like, it's not control in this world. Yeah. It's that God, who is sovereign, controls everything. Yeah. It's not that we aren't sometimes unlovable because we are. It's that he loved us to death, you know, and there's not this, we don't have to strive to get that love. Yeah.

Yeah. It's just in him, they're answered and only in him in a way that's satisfactory, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Do you have any closing words for us, Mrs. Jenny Allen, about the lie you don't know you believe? I would just say, I hope everybody listening feels tremendous grace. That this is common to man. That we are not, you are not especially broken.

Yeah, I want the picture of that right there. That you are, you're not especially broken because you believe lies. You're loved. Like the reason the enemy comes for you is because you're loved. Yeah. Because you love God and he loves you. Like that makes you a target. So I just hope that shame doesn't enter this story anymore than it already has.

That there's peace and freedom to work this out with God. And that invitation, that is a giant invitation to, okay, God, I want to see myself the way that you see me. Not the way the world says I should be and not the way I see myself, but the way that you see me. And as that happens, we get more free. Yeah. Yeah. Before we leave, I just. feel led to pray for you.

Pray for this project. Thank you. That's so crazy. I was looking at her face. I was like, I think we're supposed to pray for her. I mean, I will receive all of it. One, of course. So dear gracious God, we thank you, God, for this conversation. We thank you, God, for this vessel, Jenny, that you've used greatly. We know God that she has written many books, but this book, it seems special. All of her books have been special, been used by you.

but I do believe that there is a particular type of warfare that comes with exposing the lies of the enemy. We know one thing about the enemies that the enemy likes to be hidden. He doesn't like to be seen and you love for your glory to be seen. But the enemy, he wants to hide and I know that this work will expose a lot of lies generationally in people's hearts, people's minds. And we will be remiss to think that there are not, there's not a particular strategy. even geared towards Jenny, a hitback from the enemy. And we're not afraid of the enemy,

but we just ask you, Lord, and your grace to hide her under the shadow of the Almighty, to protect her underneath your wings. God, we pray, God, that as this book goes out into the world, that you will send angels to encamp around her home and her family, that we know we're not void of struggling or suffering, but we know that you will protect us in the midst of it. So protect her mind, protect our heart, protect this book, protect this work,

and allow this work to go out into the world and to impact generations to come. So we love you. We thank you. We believe you for everything we've asked in Jesus' name. With the Perrys is produced by the Perrys, with support from Amanda Reed and Channing McBride, video recording and audio production by Matthew Baxter and Xavier Fairley,

edited by the team at Tread Libley, artwork by Hop. Thank you for listening. Now go with God.