With The Perrys - The Grief and Relief of Obedience in Dating

Episode Date: November 10, 2025

Lean into part two of the Perrys’ conversation with Melody and CD Fabien for even more real talk on dating discipleship. They unpack what healthy boundaries look like – whether you’re dating later in life or after a previous marriage – and share why they believe couples should enjoy long dating seasons and short engagements. CD challenges men to consider what true, Christ-like leadership looks like in dating, with the reminder that Scripture calls both husbands and wives to “submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.” The Fabiens also acknowledge that godly dating often involves discernment and sometimes grief-filled obedience, yet they encourage singles that even in those hard moments, peace can be found in the pain. Scripture references:  Ephesians 5:21 1 Thessalonians 4:3-6 Connect with the Fabiens:https://www.instagram.com/hangingwiththefabiens/https://www.instagram.com/cdfabien/https://www.instagram.com/melodyfabien/Get Dating & Marriage Coaching with the Fabienshttps://cdandmelody.com Subscribe to the Perrys' newsletter: https://withtheperrys.myflodesk.com/zhfus4jx1s Join Preston's discipleship community for men: https://www.patreon.com/PrestonPerry/membership To support the work of the Perrys, donate via PayPal: https://paypal.me/withtheperrys Shop BOLD Apparel: boldapparel.shop Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Melody, I guess what's coming to mind is, yeah, even with our conversation with Megan and Ebenezer, one of the emphasis that we were making was we wanted to communicate dating principles, wisdom, and just the process of what that is after 30. Since we were saying that like, you know, a lot of purity messaging and wisdom is given for cats in college. And it's like, no, if you're divorced, if you're. widowed, if you're a single mom, it's just a different wisdom you need for the season you're in. In light of that, I'm thinking of men and women who feel like their options are getting smaller because of their age, because of, like, it's just like, yeah, I'm 47. I lost my husband last year. I'm 62. I'm 38 and I don't have children. and the body is the body, right?

How do you speak to that reality of feeling like maybe it's too late for me? What you feel is very real, you know, I feel like it's too late. I think the thing that helped me was God purposely is like you're not going to find anyone until after 27. I'm like, I'm going to be 28, you know, and now that's so young, right? But in my time, that was like, where and when and how if I can't even date, right? But I tell people like, I literally had intentional prayer for my future husband. I had prayed for him.

People say, how you find a CD in prayer? I didn't find my mingle.com. I found him in prayer. I don't have nothing against finding people online. But, so one is prayer. prayer, really getting into the presence of God and intentionally praying. I think some people have stopped praying for a spouse because it hurts them. And it can come across as discontentment.

Yeah, and it's not that. We're still praying for more children. It's okay to pray for what you want, for the thing that desire in your heart. Pray. You prepare yourself. How do you prepare yourself reading books on marriage? I read books on marriage. I went to marriage conferences and volunteered to learn.

to learn. We have a masterclass called Fight for Your Marriage. Do the master class. We have a lot of singles coming to it. Like prepare yourself. So you have the right mindset of what is marriage. Prepare your body, right? Look your best.

You want to feel good. Look your best. And then now when you're meeting people, if you're going to meet online or let your friends know, hey, I'm praying for a spouse. If you see somebody that you think is good for me, let them know. My best friend, she, I have two best friends, Limari and Marisa.

Marisa, I remember when she met me, she was a makeup artist, she did makeup at my wedding, and she's like, you ain't never had, you guys waited? Wait, y'all didn't kiss. Like, it was, she was in the world at that time. And so when she dove in with God, she said, I want to serve you. I want to be with you. I want to be like right next to you. Teach me everything.

She submitted her life. And then she'd be like, what do you think of this guy? And I'm like, heck no. Like I was in her life to be like, no, he has no character, right? And I tell women, you could change a man's clothes, but you cannot change his character. Yes, a fact. Only the Holy Spirit can do that. And so, and then so she was like, hey, this guy that I know said that there's this other guy who's single and he's divorced, but he's divorced 12 years.

What do you think about that? Time has passed. She had been walking with the Lord. She's growing a lot. And some years, and she's in her. And she's in her mid-30s at this point now. Single mom. Single mom, right?

Difforsay. Had to start all over. Well, they never got married, but yeah. Okay. And what was good is we were holding her to the same standard to the so-called high school college kids. Right. Because even if you're in your 30s, 40s, and 50s, and you find yourself single or single again, the principles of God still. They don't change.

And whether you find them on mingle.com or your parents are trying to hook you together, your friends trying to get together, the church. We hadn't got no beef with that. I think the beautiful ways that people have come together is amazing. But the Lord can use any, all things work together. Unless is the what? The strip club. Well, hey, but we know of people who got married in the most strangest of ways with the Holy Spirit

healed and delivered and everything. I'm coming back to her story. I'm coming back to her story because I'm making the point that time had passed and she found herself in her later season, mid-30s. And, you know, and it might be harder for those in the 40s and 50s, and that feeling of it. But she was prayerful. She started praying for her future husband.

She was accountable. Godly community. And then something happened. So then she said, my friend said, she wanted me to meet this guy. Should I go? I said, yes, go. So she went to his event. She met him.

He was very kind to her, but then nothing. And she's like, do I give him my number? Do I be like, hey? I said, no, pray. And so she's like, Lord, I liked him. I pray that he calls me. He asked the guy for her number. He called her, hey, I would love to get together.

There's a Hillsong concert. The number of Hillsong was on tour. She calls me, should I say yes? I'm like, yes. You know, she's like, I'm so out the game. I forgot what to do. I'm like, go for it, girl. So she goes, you know.

And she's like, should I go in my own car? Should I go in his car? I was like, you know what? Going your own car. I'm actually not mad at that. heard going to her friend for very specific and constant wisdom. Yeah. Yeah.

Her golly friend. Golly. Yeah. There you go in a different car. Because if you're not like in the date, you know, you can leave. You know? Right. That's true.

So they went to Hill's song. He was like, would you like to go out to eat after this? She's like, sure. She went out to eat. He's like, I would love to get to know you better. Can I call you? Yes, you can. And so I, then I so when I introduced the word pace.

That's good. Teach this. Pace. Okay, because our culture is DMing, FaceTiming. You're on your phone. Share locations. Share locations. Do not share your location with anybody but your spouse.

They don't have the right. That's a covenant thing. They don't have the right. That's a covenant thing. And so I said, tell him like what days to call you, how much time you want to talk. So she did. She said, hey, I have a son. I'm not going to introduce you to my son.

yet till I know that this is healthy. Come on. He said, I completely agree. He said, what are your convictions about sex, purity, dating? You know, she shared, I'm saving sex until marriage. She had sex before. She's a single mom. She said, I'm not kissing and making out on no couch.

And I would like to save kissing for marriage. I love that. I did not push that on her. She saw how we experienced our marriage, the reward. ward of it. She goes, I know I am a passionate woman. I know if I kiss my husband is going to go to sex. Yeah. So I can't. And he said, I respect that. I'm willing to wait. He got to know her. He met her son. So now she was like, hey, he's coming over for dinner. No one's home. I said, okay, just text me when he's there, text me when he leaves. That was her accountability. Yeah. Except her son.

Yeah, her son will be there. But sometimes her son wouldn't be there. And she would say, hey, he's going to have dinner real quick. And then we're going to go because they were saving money and all this stuff. But it was very open. Yeah. She would not disappear. She would be like, hey, he just came over.

She's leaving right now. She's leaving right now. She's leaving. Yep. Text. Yep. And then I'm like, how you doing? Are you guys still kissing?

You're not kissing? She's like, nope. But he did kiss me on neck and it felt so good. I'm like, okay. All right. What's the date? It reminds me of something somebody did to me. I guess you're right here.

That's not even a place to kiss somebody. But it was like so many boundaries. And what did he do? They got engaged. They saved their kiss to the wedding date. He takes care of her. They're still married. They're so beautiful.

But I just want to give that advice. Like, she was crazy in the world. And the Lord deliver her. I just want to ask all the questions because we've set this on a podcast before. But I want y'all to speak to people who are engaged for two. long. Oh, that's good. Longer dating, very short engagements. Yeah, we like the whole friendship dating season. Can be long. Can be long. And I mix those two together because there's also a season, you know, there's a difference between early 20s and mid-20s. Physiologically, your

frontal cortex is more developed at 25, 26. It's 50s. It's 50s. It's physical. finished, you make better decisions. I'm all for people who get married young and they got community around them. But to your question, like, if you've been friends for five, 10 years and you're dating and now another four or five years, like, what is happening? I genuinely am convinced if people are engaged. I'm not going to put a time limit. But if it's years, y'all smashing.

I just, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I just, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I'm it, I don't need to, it don't need to be that long. If you know what the Lord is saying, if you know what's up. I think there's some, there's some, there's some caveats with that, like, we can't pay for the wedding, all right, go to the courthouse, like, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, to me, it's, like, the pace of the engagement, because to me, the warfare increases in the engagement period. Yes. Because in your mind, you also now know this person is your spouse. So the fight gets harder.

So it's like, no, we need to. Yes. We had a four-month engagement. Six months over here. And that was only because Brian wasn't available for a month four. I do think it should be six months or less. He had another wedding he had to do. So we have to push it right?

Yeah. We got married in a cold. We was like, we can't wait for something. Mm-mm. It was good. Mark first. Yeah. It did us wonders.

It also helps. So for men, It helps you be decisive and intentional. That's good. Again, I still think that men should lead. And so when it comes to setting the day, you do it together, for sure. But when it starts getting pushed out to 8, 9, 1, 2 years, I really want to encourage the brother step in and be like, hey, honey,

what is this really about? Yeah. This is about a covenant that we're making before the Lord to one another in community. Yeah. And so we have actually counseled a number of people to go to the courthouse, you know, get married, and then if they desire to later, have a major celebration later, and it stills nothing away from it. We've counseled a number of people who have. Because they were living together.

They have been living together. And they are making some changes. Some of them already had children. And we encouraged them, hey, listen, you know this is it. Make the commitment. Yeah. something turns on in men when we commit. Something turns on about establishing the house and, you know, making sure you're there for your wife and your children.

There's just something powerful about that. And the longer you delay that, I think, I personally believe it delays your maturity as well. I want to actually, I actually want to speak to that because I love how you, Melody, talked about preparing well, and I love how you talked about the benefits of obedience now in the dating process. One of the things that I love to do when I disciple young men is kind of prepare them for the things that they might experience that I didn't know of. Yeah, that's good.

You know? And I guess I kind of want you guys to speak to how you lead in a dating process and how you submit to the Lord during the dating process. it actually will prepare you for marriage, but not just prepare you, but you will reap the benefits even in marriage of how you dated now. Like, like, talk about, talk about, like, the benefits of,

because I tell men all the time, like, if you practice being a leader now, like, things will be easier for you when you're married. You set the tone. Yeah. Like, so, so, yeah, yeah, talk about that. And I just want to be careful. Like, I'm not trying to say that the,

just like, you know, from the purity movement, we don't want to be horribly binary. It's this or that. You know, we're in this journey. We're in this development progression together. But in scripture says that we're being matured into the head of Christ, right? And I believe that his example to us is such that he pursued, he led, he also served and he sacrificed. So in a dating relationship and in our experience, what really helped, and I get to, you know, teach this others, is I was very prayerful about dates.

I was very prayerful about the timing of things. So when it was time for us, time for me to move to Chicago from Arizona, I was very prayerful about that time. And when was I going to ask her officially to start dating? See, that's what I'm saying. Like, it's not whimsical. It's intentional. Intentational. Everything.

You know, we're intentional about everything else. We're intentional about work. We're intentional about deadlines. We're intentional about business as we should be. for some reason, we kind of take a back seat and we want the woman to drive in the relationship. And if you do that, that sets a bad precedent. So all of a sudden, in marriage, when men want to step up and lead, the women don't know how to let go in the reins.

That's hard. So if you're single, gentlemen, be prayerful about that. And so I was prayerful about that. And I remember the day that I asked her to date was December 8th, 2009, no, 2007. That's in 1990. I was saying, what? And it was after I had sought the blessing from her father and her pastor and her stepfather and her stepfather and her stepmother and all of her brothers and sisters and then her best friend. And that was all part of my intentional process of the pursuit.

And when that date came and the right place, I'm prayerful about that. The Holy Spirit was there. And I asked her at, you know, this event. Then I was prayerful again. when should I ask her to marry me? And I went to that same process. Again, submission. When we started dating, her father pursued dating me as a man to get to know me better.

We went on about half as many dates as Melody and I went on. Her father was on me, but I submitted to that process. That's good. And when I was anyway with the band trying to pursue my daughters. That's what you got to do. And our daughter. is married. Our daughter who we adopted is married. Same thing. He pursued her. CD said we're going to meet. How's your finances? Where are you at? I pursued, yep. You need a car.

I sat with him. Where's your car? Where's, like, he asked all. He was trying to raise his level of preparation. That's good. Here's the thing, you know, as fathers, what we want to do is we want to prepare the man to take our mantle. I am not going to give my position as coverer and protector and provider and spiritual guide and pastor of my home to just some whim, some dude, some guy who just steps up. And I got, and where did I learn with wisdom from? I didn't just make this up. I learned from her father. And where did he learn it from? He went to class. He went to school. He figured these things out. But so I knew the date when I was going to ask her. I found the ring. And then, and then the Holy Spirit told me, you will be married before the end of the year.

And she was the one saying, let's wait a year, maybe nine months, and I had to submit back to her because leadership doesn't look like I tell you what to do. Come on, say that again. You don't dominate. Ha! Come on, baby. Men, when we get angry, frustrated, you're talking about like the way that we present ourselves and how men pursue or not pursue, we express pain through anger. And it shows up looking like domination. That's where misogyny comes from. Misogyny is actually a reaction of pain

The pain glasses Women, they're not as strong as men physically But they're emotionally wiser So they're emotionally wiser So they manipulate Right? Men will intimidate Women will manipulate all in effort to dominate So that's got to be healed

Wow That's good But when she So I didn't just tell her no I said well honey I think we should do it sooner. I'm leading her to who? Even in this relationship, I led her to Christ.

So I said, I want to submit to you that I think you want to go and have a big, and I want to do that too. Big wedding. But this is, I feel like the Lord is saying it's going to be four months to the day. And I was like, I need six months to plan because I'm a planner. We need at least six months. He's like, let's talk to our pastor. I said, can you just, no, before that, I said, could you please just pray about it?

She hesitates. She didn't want to pray about it because I was taking it to Jesus. She knew I got this from Jesus. So I want her to agree, not with me per se. Now, I do want, you know, women, I do want you to learn how to support and submit, right? But men, I want you to learn how to lead and guide to Jesus. I said, honey, I want to submit this to you. Isn't that weird for a man to present something as submitting to his wife?

because in Ephesians chapter 5 21 it says submitting unto one another that looks differently. So I did. And then I said, let's talk to some godly counsel. She prayed. We talked to our pastor. And he came out saying, yeah, I think. And that's where we get that language from. He said long courtships, short engagements.

Right. And he said, I think a short engagement is wise. I think it's very wise. You're 28. you're 29, you guys are older, this doesn't got to be long. You already know. God could do it.

God could do it in four months. And God did it. And God did it. Four months. It was awesome. I wish I was there. So beautiful. It was so beautiful.

It was so great. It was so great. But to your question, I think the next year. What year was in America? 2008. We got married the same day. That's what I got saved.

Yeah. Mariah Carey and Nick Cannon got married in the same day. Well, we, we, yep. Um, I just. I want to... It's just we're in the newspaper in the same time. It's kind of cool. I want to ask this question, which is...

I'm trying to word it right, because I'm just thinking of them so many things. I just want to get as much wisdom here as possible. Women with father issues and father wounds who are attracted to men who are not good. Yeah. They may be in the church, but they're not good. And they don't know how to see it, right? And so I guess because you had a good dad. So you kind of came into your dating relationship with some sovereign advantage.

Yeah. and self-preservation. Right. And it's God's grace that he allowed me to have a good man even if I couldn't see it. Yes. Right? Because by not seeing it, I struggle with moving towards him because he's legitimately safe. But in the same way, you got some.

It's like, no, he's not good since you need to move away. So how do you counsel women to develop a discernment about the men they're dating? So they're not being attracted to wolves and sheep's clothing. I think it does go back to the Titus too. You need older women in your life who can speak to that. Because I remember during my seven-year vow, I kept being attracted to the wrong guys. And I would say, I did have my dad,

but I would say, oh, I think this guy's great, you know, and he's like, he don't even like you. I'm like, you don't know that, dad. You don't know it. And he would be like, he has not asked for your number. He has not asked for your nothing. He has not shared any intentions with you. He invites you to events because he likes you around.

And I was like, what? And I had to, but so if you don't have a mentor or someone to speak into that. And I was like, I don't see that. And then. And you genuinely didn't see it. I didn't see it. And here I was at this dude's events cleaning up, because I wanted to show my wife material. I'm like, look, I'm going to clean up.

I'm going to stay later. And then the Lord was like, you are lonelygirl.com. And 1-800, lonely girl.com. And I remember going, what? He's like, you stroke this man's ego, you show up at all his events. He don't like you. I like, he doesn't Christian, man. But he had a, I started to look.

I said, he got like four girls at this event. They all mopping. They all mopping at his events. He had a little Christian harem. No, just kidding. All of the terrible. It's crazy. And so I'm like, you know, I'm just talking.

I was like, wait a second. That was a great joke. Hold on, God. And so I said, God, break this attachment in my heart. I want this guy who doesn't want me. You know? Then there was this other guy. Again, so in my seven years, singleness, I had guy friends pursuing me.

And I was like, oh, we're just friends. But in my head, I'm like, oh, maybe he's it, you know? Were there any women in your life that also presented these things? Because... I had Mama Millie. I had a spiritual mom in my life that I would go to and I would ask her questions as well. So I had

godly women I would get counsel from. So you got to get around older godly women. Yeah. But to your point, older godly men to your father. So what's interesting in your story that I know also is Melody's parents divorced when she was three

and she was raised by a great stepfather, stepdad. but in the area of that spiritual development, he did not disciple melody that way. And your father got saved when you were 14. I was 14. And started taking that mantle more intentional when he was, when you were 16, but he was not in the house.

So part of this kind of like boy craziness that developed into melody, as you were saying, like, it's not so much for her like the absence of a father because she had. both fathers, but it was the example of her culture. And so whether it's by pain or culture or custom in your neighborhood or whatever it might be, there were things that Melody had to break off that developed in her, whether it's because, you know, the way that you're saying that respond to the lack of a father or just the example or the environment. I want to tell men, like godly, faithful, pure men,

speaking to the women's lives around you too. Because your father was a spiritual father and a spiritual pastor. And you also had spiritual pastors as well and Mama Millie. And I think. Yeah, so it's just like I had, like I literally went to a woman of God in my church. I said, I don't, my mom does not serve the Lord. Now she does, praise the Lord. I said, I have no woman speaking into my life.

Can you be that woman? And she said, I would be honored. But I made sure I was watching her. She loves Jesus. She's a prayer warrior. She's in her Bible, right? So I can speak to that. I'm like, hey, I met this person.

What do you think? Even though I'm in my seven-year vow, I was still like praying, like, who's this man going to be? But there were a lot of guys that I liked that were not it. And so one of my dad's so he don't like you. The other one, you call him. You guys are friends. but I don't see him pursuing you. So then I had to learn the whole let him pursue.

You know, then I had to learn when I saw CD, I liked him. But I was like, my man's going to be so fine. He's going to make me faint. I had a lot of vanity. And so I was like, he's cute, but I don't know. I'm not a model. And when I got home, my dad, okay, so having prophetic voices in your life, that's great.

said to me, I felt the Lord said, take the picture of whatever you think your husband's going to look like out of your mind, lest you miss what guy has for you. He said, take the Kodak. Kodak picture. Now, prophetic, that was so prophetic because the last day I was really starting to like CD in Africa. I was like, man, he's a really great guy. He kind of has a lot of things I prayed for.

There was this man who was Brazilian, Lebanese, fine man at this hotel. He was a model. One green eye, one yellow eye. He had like this beautiful. eyes. Anyway, he gets saved and all the girls are like, he is so cute. And I said, Lord, thank you for showing me a vision of what my husband's going to look like. She said, degree and declare. I took a picture of him. I printed it back in the printing days. Oh, man. Okay, literally, went to Walgreens. I was going to have it on a prayer board, like vision, like this is what it is.

And then my dad says this word, take the picture, the Kodak picture of what you're. think. And I said, well, Dad, there was this amazing man of God that I met out there named CD. He's cute, but he wasn't like my fine standard. I think I should deserve or whatever. But he is cute and he's a great guy. He said, we'll get to know him. Let's see, let's see what this is. And I said, okay, and then that's when CD started calling me. But I had to have a prophetic voice in my life saying, hey, what is this whole like he, they got to look like this. I mean so many great young. single men, they're like, she got to be fine, she got to be banging, she got to have six packs, she got to, and it's like we're becoming so worldly, even in what we're saying

we want, he got to make, you know, at least 80 Gs and he got to make. No, they say a million now. Or whatever. What are you worried about it? That man probably somewhere with a whole bunch of malignamoles all over his face. Oh, you did it. Wow. Go ahead.

Talk, talk, keep on my script. Go ahead. So. And you, are you handsome with a full gray beer now? You know, the young men around us did bring him to the Lord. So I pray blessings. I pray blessings. He can have mows too.

But as we got to know each other, okay, and he shared his intentions with me, I would say, like, what do you think about having, like, your beard cut a little bit? Because he had this, like, long beard that he would go like this too. Because he had a chin strap. He had a chin strap. I had a chin strap beer. And, you know, I like my chin strap beer. With the longest goate, it was like, it was just given. It was giving Billy Go.

Yes. I was a fan of Molly Music. So what people don't know is the first, because he had to go like the long beer. Talk about my worship. Yeah. And so like I had the chin strap. And so people don't know, like the first time I had a full beer is my wedding day. I grew it out for my wedding day.

And it was little, it was fuzzy because I never grew it out first. And I lined it up. And that was the first pitch I ever took with a full beer. Kachoo. Jackie wanted it. Now you're a model. No, I'm not. You bring the best out of each other.

I'm a model Christian. Yeah. And I said, can you, can you trim? So when he came to visit me in Chicago, he did this beer. I'm like, oh, look my fat, man. So it was like, it was first spiritual. Yeah. It was first spiritual.

We got to know each other spiritually, but we began to be even more and more attracted to each other. And he would tell me, I used to always wear blazers. He's like, can you not wear? Wear a blazer. She'd be wearing a blazer on a date. You ain't like her being business casual. Like she, like. Yeah, you know, you're going to work.

Like we're in corporate America going on dates. She shop at Express. In Chicago. I was like, can you put on a dress? She likes you working Michael Corolla. She likes to work in a T-shirt. I will say this. It's not a question, but like how your father spoke into your life.

Yeah. I have to admit, that's one of the most frustrating things to me. When I love a woman or whatever, like a girl, like some of my nieces or whatever, and I'm telling them that this man don't like you. This man is not for you. And sometimes it can seem like women are just so wrapped up in what they emotionally want. Yeah.

That it's like, don't you know I'm a man? I see. Like literally, I told somebody that he's cheating on you. And she called me a hater. Right in front of, Jackie, you're a hater. Yeah. A couple months later, her heart got broken. I said, why you didn't listen to me, man.

I'm glad you said that. I love you. Yeah. They don't be listening. Some of them listen. Some of them don't. I'm glad you said that because my next question was to zero in on this idea of girl and boy crazy. Because I think it's a nice way to talk about idolatry.

Yes. Because it is hard to take correction. It is hard to acknowledge that someone sees something you don't see if that. that person is your water, if that person seems to fulfill a need that you think you can't go without. And so how does someone one identify, like maybe I'm a little too wrapped up, not only in this person, but in relationship, like how do you, yeah, work through that? Do you get what I'm saying?

Because it leads to really unhelpful and unhealthy patterns, even in marriage. where it's like you think you love this person when you're actually obsessed. If somebody is giving you a warning or advice or saying, hey, this person's not good for you, you can't make nobody do something. Like you have to pray for this person to see it. And so if you're in a...

Like if you're the friend, the father, the cousin, yeah. So the guy I was dating in college, my dad could clearly see this dude is not for her. he, when it came to my calling and my calling to speak and all that, he didn't like it. And he's like, she will not become fully who she's supposed to be with this man. So he began to pray that I would see it. Because I was like, he's a great guy. And he's like, Melody, when I told him about authority and that I don't, I'm not

blessing this relationship, he said, with all due respect, sir, it's what God wants, not what you want. Wow. To your daddy. To my dad. Okay. And he said he has a problem with authority. He said, how can you submit to a man who can't submit? And I'm like, what does that have to do with marriage?

Because I had no clue. And I think he's a great guy. He's a Bible theology major. You know, like, I was like, he loves Jesus. He's like, sweetheart, he cannot lead you well. He has a problem with you speaking, that you are a speaker. You ain't see that yet. No.

I was like, no, it's going to be a problem. And I was like, no, Dad, I didn't see it. So he started praying and fasting for me. Praying and fasting for me to see. I was with this guy for like six months, getting skinnier and skinnier because I was, ooh, because I was like sick with anxiety. I would eat and use the restroom. I would eat, use the restroom.

I would eat. I would even feel like throwing up sometimes. I'm like, I don't know what's wrong with me. I have stomach problems. Something's so weird. I don't know what's wrong. So I finally fasted and said, God, I need to hear you. And so for the woman or man who feels entangled.

That's a good word. And maybe you feel like you can't see. Why everybody telling me all this stuff? Fast. That's a word. That's a good word. Fast. And so I fasted and I prayed until I could hear.

That's good. I say fast and pray until you can hear. And I heard and he said break up now. Yeah. Now. I was like, now? Now. That was a loud word.

Now. That was, this is my son with whom I am well. Yes. And I, loud. I was sick again, throwing up. And I'm like, God, why am I so sick? He said, you're sick with anxiety. You're sick with disobedience.

I need you to break up with him now. Man. And so there was a doctor's office at our school. I went into the doctor's office because I had a little bit of like, maybe I was a stomach bug. Okay, you want to talk about still not seeing. And the doctor said, this is the third time you've been here for anxiety. Did you like me to give you an anxiety pill? I said, no, I need an obedience pill.

I know what this is about. I broke up with him. Good guy. When I have sex? Good guy. The next day I was healed. Healed of this sickness, of this weird stomach issue I was having. And I'm like, but I was in pain.

My heart hurt because I was. I loved this man. I thought this was it. I thought I would never find another guy. And so the Lord was showing me you can be in peace but in pain and still be obeying me. Come on. In peace and in pain at the same time. Wow.

And so it took me a year to get over him. I would cry. We had classes together. I would see him. I would be like, oh, Lord. And the enemy, you ain't never going to find him. Why am I doing this seven year about you? You ain't never going to find no man.

seven years? What are you doing? It was so hard. And I love how you pointed out the grief and the relief of obedience. Yeah. Because the pain, the previous pain, you know, I think it was akin to a demonic oppression. Yeah. Because of disobedience. Right. It invited more attack.

And the funny thing about the word depression, I'm not saying this is about all depression, but I think a lot of people's experience of depression is disobedience or lack of wisdom continuously. And you're not listening to those voices in your life and you find itself in this horrible cycle. And what do they say about insanity? It's doing the same thing over and over again,

expecting different results. And so these things bring about a psychological but also maybe a spiritual oppression that leads to that psychological depression. And that's a kind of pain that there is no hope from. But the grief of obedience, like I said, the reward is greater. The relief is a peace that you can endure even through the pain. That's good. It's a pain of loss that you shouldn't have had anyway.

And we may not have known it. It's not a judgment, but it is still a calling. I will say this, though. Scripture says that the Lord resists the proud, but he lifts up the lowly. And Proverbs 3.7, we know Proverbs 3, 5, and 6. It says, trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not unto your own understanding. That's what a lot of people do. They lean into, they don't make no sense to me subjectively.

in all your ways acknowledge God, but we won't acknowledge him. And he will direct your path. You're not willing to walk in it. Watch verse 7. It says, be not wise in your own eyes, right? Wow. It says be not, and we rarely read that part. It says, be not wise in your own eyes, fear the Lord, and turn away from evil.

Yeah. And to the women and the men who are bucking up against sound. wisdom time and time again. You know what their problem is? It's being wise in their own eyes. It's being haughty. It's being proud. Oh, I know better than you.

Why are you hating? So forth than so on. I really want to challenge people. If everyone in your circle is giving you the red flag, even if you don't believe it, if you're a believer in Jesus, just fast. Pray.

I heard it said that in Matthew, when it says that to give, because when you give, it brings forth the spirit of generosity and it breaks greed. When you fast, it breaks off like fleshly control, lust, gluttony, so forth and so on. And it brings forth peace. And when you pray, it humbles you. It humbles you. It breaks off pride.

And it humbles you. And so if you're feeling this way, at least just pray. Yeah. At least just fast. I'm so glad that you guys talked about prayer. and fasting because I think and I'm glad Jackie asked this question because I think for the woman who might be

just emotionally wrapped up into a man too deep I know in my experience of dating it wasn't just mere emotion I've known a lot of men who fell into the trap that I fell into of just being wrapped up until what this girl does for you and thinking that this girl is your husband your wife because

she's presenting all the wifely things and so for me I was dating someone in my dating process where, I mean, I liked her. I had a sense of love for, but I was wrestling. But I'm like, everything made sense. It's like she folded my clothes. She cooked for me. My family loved her, all of these things, but I couldn't shake something.

And I felt like the Lord prompted me to pray and fast. And I went on a three-day fast. When I went on a three-day fast, the Lord kept saying, Jackie Hill. Jackie Hill. Yep. Jackie Hill. I remember that. And I was like, Lord, you sure was not.

Right, right, right. What's crazy is Jackie. And what we never share is that she shared with you or someone else that the Lord told her I was your wife. Yes. And I never knew that. She was trying to change the, I didn't know. This is the thing, though. Because we were friends.

This is the thing. This is the reason why I'm so glad. Interesting. This is the reason why I'm so glad you brought out fasting. Wow. Praise God. Fasting, it humbles us, but it actually shows us who we are by humbling us, but it shows us what we need. Because the thing is, I was like, Jackie Hill is one of my best friends.

I love this girl. She's one of the dopest creators. But she ain't never show me, wifie material God. For sure, Edin. I'm like, she ain't that foe, not damn thing from you. For sure. She didn't fault nothing. No, seriously.

I honestly think if I wouldn't marry that girl because she wanted me to marry her. And I was seriously thinking about proposing one day to her. I don't think that I would like her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You ain't like her then, Preston. I de like her. You left that girl at the house and your sister said,

Preston, why are you leaving your girlfriend in our basement? Because I was unsure. For eight hours a day. I was unsure. You was coming back to eat dinner and you was leaving that girl in the basement. You like what she could do. for you. Yes. I did, but I did like her. I didn't like her as much

as I liked her. But I realized I realized God was preparing me and trying to show me what I, not just what I needed, but you don't like we don't even know what we want. Well, let me tell you something. Like I

wanted her, I just didn't know it. Yeah, go ahead, Gabby. That's what fasting does. Yeah, that's so good. Fasting. It breaks the will. Helps you see. And I, and And we're not talking about fasting social media. I'm talking about fasting food, okay?

But fast social media too. You could, but because we forgot what is fasting too. We're like, oh, I stop eating bananas. No, no, like it's a time of not eating food, right, to pray. Not to watch social media, to watch Netflix. You're fasting and praying till you see, till you hear, right? And so I love that. The Lord showed you it's Jackie, okay?

God showed CD it's melody It isn't just I want to find the person who has this This quality and this is it's a call That's good It's a call It is And so we knew we're called to each other

I knew I was called to them I prayed for confirmations And God gave me so many And even when we got married We started to see our differences And we would go What we were supposed to get married because we're so different, you know, and we will know, we're called to be together.

We were able to fall back on what God had said because there's going to be many of times in which in the normal course of life, certain incompatibilities are going to be highlighted, so-called incompatibilities, are going to be highlighted difficulties and mis-expectations and frustrations. And the question will come by the flesh and by the spirit and by the world. Maybe you guys are not meant for one another. But when we're grounded in what Christ has done, You see, it's about purposes. Am I serving my purposes?

Am I seeking to get married for my purposes? Am I seeking to pursue this particular one because of the way that make me feel? Or am I even yielding my covenant movement, my pursuit or presentation to the Lord? To the Lord's plans. To the Lord's plans, right? God's plans. God's plan. Is it really God's plan?

Let me tell you, I love your story real quick. I remember when that happened to me similarly. there was a young lady that I was flirting with a lot. And I could tell she was feeling me. And she stroked the ego so, so well, just said the right things, spoke the nicest way, just made me feel like a great guy. And, you know, I was feeling her too.

But every time I spent time with her, number one, I felt like I was crossing boundaries. Because I know that feeling. I just felt like I was crossing. Now, we didn't have sex. We never even kissed. But I did hold her hand. I held her fist a couple of times.

And I did say certain things. And I could tell I was crossing emotional boundaries. I could feel it in my spirit. But technically, I wasn't doing anything wrong. That's the hard thing about having Holy Spirit. It's like, Todd, this feel good. A woman knows how to stroke your ego. Right.

And it does feel good. It feels great. And you want more of that. And I was praying, and the Holy Spirit told me, see you're talking about prayer and God's plan. Because I'm a very, what's the word, loyal guy, and I like to serve and work hard, and especially when it comes to building a family. And I felt like, oh, I could build a great family together, but it wasn't God's plan.

It wasn't God's intentions. And in prayer one day, he told me straight up, you know this one is not your wife. And that was so frustrating for me. And he said, you need to break this off right away. And it wasn't even a thing. Like, what is the thing? Yeah. And she had happened to invite me.

We had a situation. We had a situation. And even had that language back then. And she invited me over to meet her family. And I'm cool with family and parents and dads. And I met them. And it was good. And I was like, okay, we need to go a full walk and I'd let her know.

I had no understanding. I was blind. Even the way that some women could be blind about what people are telling you. And the Holy Spirit is telling me. I had no clue she thought this walk was for me to make things official. Oh, wow. And it was the walk for me to break things off, to unofficially, officially break things off. Wow.

And she wept and she cried. And for a couple of weeks, the stirring that I did in her heart was so inappropriate that it took her weeks to really kind of recover. Not that I'm all that, but the stirring was jacked. And I remember she wrote me a letter and she left me a voicemail and she spoke to me three different times. Man, she was a heart. of how, what a horrible man I was. And I let her vent.

And then she apologized later and everything like that. She went on, this is powerful. She went on to marry one of my roommates' best friends before I married Melody. And the Holy Spirit reminded me of First Thessalonians chapter four versus three through eight. Can I go to it real quick? You should? Oh, man.

And, and, you know, We got to know the Word. The Holy Spirit, you know why some of us are not hearing the voice of God? Because we don't know His Word. We don't know what he sounds like. So when he speaks to us personally and wants to draw back references, we don't remember. We don't know what he says. He says this, for this is the will of God, your sanctification, that you abstain from sexual

morality, that each one of you know how to control his own body and holiness and honor, not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God. that verse six, that no one transgress and wrong his brother in this matter. Because the Lord is an avenger in these things, as we have told you beforehand and solemnly warned you. And the Holy Spirit reminded me, you were on the verge of about to defrage your brother. In fact, you were already stealing areas of her heart that did not belong to you. It wasn't just matters of sex and the body. I've heard it said in Romans, it says,

that we are to lay our, to offer our bodies as living sacrifices unto the Lord. Derek Prince, a great teacher, he says, you know why he says, lay down your body? Because if you lay down your body, then God has all of you because your soul and your spirit is there encased. We are wonderfully, marvelously, and fearfully made. And he said to me, you were on the verge of about to defraud your brother. And you had been in certain ways. That was his wife, not yours. Because he's, because that was not my wife.

Wow. that was not my wife. And so part of this dating discipleship is I ask gentlemen sometimes, do you really believe this is your wife? If they hesitate, I say, well, you don't know yet. So you need to maintain the boundaries. Oh, that's another thing. Men maintain the boundaries. Men maintain the boundaries.

You have the boundaries. It was wild to have my wife be the virgin, but I was setting the standard of the boundaries. again, if that's not your story, start now. That was not my story. Obviously, I had crossed many boundaries. And even as a Christian, I was crossing emotional and spiritual and relational boundaries. But I got it right. The next girl that started, you know, we started talking on the phone.

The Holy Spirit caught me early, quick. Hey, there's like the second or third call. Hey, is she your wife? Why would you ask such a hard question off the bat? Because I told you, when you're thinking about dating, you should be. be asking that question in the back of your mind. That's good. Is this your wife?

And he said to me, do you think this is your wife? Yeah. I said, no. And he said, then you need to stop calling her late at night because, and I was like, it wasn't late at night. It was like 8 p.m. But. Yeah.

That's good. I think to close, I would love if you guys can just speak to the singles and just cast a gospel vision for them, however you are led. Don't do it. It's okay? Yeah. Listen, the gospel. I've been meditating on the mystery of the gospel in marriage.

When Adam and Eve were created, Adam was made first, and then God put Adam to sleep. He didn't form Eve out of another mound of ground. He pulled it right from his side. And then he woke him up, and he says, behold your bride. What did he say? Behold, now, flesh of my flesh and bone of my bone. She should be called woman because she come from from men. And the two were naked and unashamed.

And for this reason, man shall leave mother and father and shall be joined into his wife. And the two shall become one flesh. The mystery of the gospel is Jesus Christ came as the second Adam. He was put to sleep. A Roman soldier pierced his side. The blood and the water flowed. The Holy Spirit raised him from the dead. and he was presented his wife, those apostles and the church that would come forth.

He breathed the spirit onto them, and then 40 days later he breathed the Holy Spirit unto all of us. The church came forth. He came by pain and sacrifice, came by death, and he went to go and prepare a place for us. If it was not so, I wouldn't have told you. And what is he coming back for? A pure and spotless bride. That's the gospel. It's the gospel.

Thank you. Every marriage is a gospel presentation. Why is the enemy attacking marriage? Why is the enemy making dating relationships get so messy because he knows if in that context they get married, they don't have a chance? And it defames the image of what God is intending to do in and through every single one of us. but as a collective, the body of Christ, which he's coming back for. So I want us to take this much more seriously than it's been presented to us in our culture. Who we date and who we marry is the most important decision you're going to make after giving your life to Christ.

God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He's the God of generations. There are things that we've inherited, and there are things that we're going to pass down. And many of us are in the nexus point of things that God wants to break off of us so that he can pass down inheritance and generation legacy so that there would be a people calling ready, holy, desiring for the madanata, for the return of Hosiana, for Jesus Christ, for the return of the kingdom.

bridegroom. So who we are right now in that endeavor is all part of the gospel work. It says in John 17 in context of the church, but the church is broken down to families and communities, let them be one Lord, like you and I are one, so that the world may see and believe that you sent me. When they see our marriages, they see a microcosm of the church, and they have an inkling of there's something divine happening here. And when the gospel goes forth with those kinds of examples, especially to our children, there will be much more inclined to believe because they saw it embodied living letters and mom and dad. Many of us haven't seen that. So the Lord is inviting you in a new way, his way, because his way is better. Amen. Thank you, Melody and CD.

We will link to Melody's NCD's website to the podcast episode where you share your story in full. I think y'all should watch that. And also, too, they have a train and counsel couples online. So if you guys want to get counseled by them or if you're married out there, you're struggling or got questions. You just need direction. There's just a great couple to follow in that way. Amen. Thank you, guys.

Thank you. We love you. We love you. My saints. Peace. With the Perry's is produced by The Perrys with support from Amanda Reed and Channing McBride

video recording and audio production by Matthew Baxter and Xavier Fairley edited by the team at Tread Lively artwork by hop and music by swoop thank you for listening now go with God