With The Perrys - The Idolatry of Knowledge

Episode Date: June 23, 2025

Christianity is an intellectual faith, and the Lord wants us to use our minds. We see that in passages that say “Think on these things” or “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength.” But how do you know if you’ve made an idol out of knowledge? You might find yourself critiquing and correcting more than you build others up. Knowledge can be an idol when it’s solely for you and not used for the edification of the Body of Christ. In this episode, the Perrys discuss why it’s important that we pray for wisdom more than we seek after knowledge, and that we’re faithful with what we do know by actually applying it to our lives. Scripture references: Matthew 22:29-32 John 9:35-41 Colossians 2:16-23 Subscribe to the Perrys' newsletter: https://withtheperrys.myflodesk.com/zhfus4jx1s Join Preston's discipleship community for men: https://www.patreon.com/PrestonPerry/membership To support the work of the Perrys, donate via PayPal: https://paypal.me/withtheperrys Shop BOLD Apparel: boldapparel.shop Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, Saints and Aids. What up with y'all? I hope that you are having a blessed morning, evening, afternoon. Hope that your toenails are clipped. I hope you did no sorcery today. I hope that you're not dibling and dabbling in witchcraft. And witchy craftiness that won't get you anywhere but hell. I hope that you floss.

I don't even floss. You shouldn't say that in public. Okay, we can exit out because what y'all not going to do is try to comfort me. Yeah, I just hope, you know, your skin is clean and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. And I need to get back into the rhythm of these intros because I just don't have it. Yeah.

It feels like small talk. Yeah, I hope that, you know, you use washcloths when you bathe. Or, you know what I've been using now? The little spongy thing. It's a brush. It's like a dry brush. I've been seeing that. I'm like, oh, she is scrubbing her back.

Scrub it up, dub. No, I'm taking it. I'm taking it up. notch on the exfoliation. It's fantastic. It gets the dead skin off, you know what I'm saying, exfoliate your skin so that when you put your oils and your lotions on it, it actually has somewhere to go. I ain't going to lie. The brush looks very, very nice. I was tempted to, you know, hit the beard a couple of times. Don't you dare. Don't you dare. I was like, man, put that on your body. I can, I can, you know, hit the beard. But what I'm not

finisher is my cleansing device. That is crazy. I said I was tempted. You are a grown man. I didn't do it. With testosterone. The, the, the, the, the, the degree of pheromones that y'all be having in things? I only did it once. I only did it once. And you washed your pits? That's disgusting, bro. I didn't, I would be so bothered by that.

I didn't wash it with your brush, relax. But left over the odor in there. I just hit my beard. Are you serious? I'm joking. I might be joking. Anyway, before I, the bait of Satan, get offended.

What are we talking about? Oh, you, I'm not going, we're, we're having a conversation a couple weeks ago where we were just talking about how people particularly in apologetic spaces how they can be kind of like, you know, feeling

like they know everything and how not even everything but just how knowledge really does puff up people where it can it creates this war between their understanding their own wisdom and they

end up low-key functioning but like they like quench the spirit because of it. Yeah. And so I don't know. We were just having an interesting conversation about how you actually need both. Like you do need spirit and truth in all the things. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Because, you know, I go in, you know, in and out of like different spaces. I think we both do. We get invited to the same type of conferences, but because I do apologetics, I get invited to the apologetics evangelism conferences. And those conferences, I just feel,

a lot of times I ain't going to lie. I feel like I don't. me. I don't want to talk about actual physics, bro. You know, like, you know, you just, you just real over here, just smart as a button. But I, but I do think that what I've seen is, and this is just not for people in those type of spaces, but just Christians who love knowledge. I think that we just have the temptation to think that that knowledge is supposed to speak for

us and God really wants us to know more than information in order to have an effective Christian life and be an effective disciple. I have two questions. How does someone know that because as a Christian, we are an intellectual faith, right? The Lord doesn't want us to not have things in our minds. He does not want us to not think. Love the Lord with all your heart, mind and so think on these things. We are supposed to use that.

And so how do you know when you have probably made an idol out of knowledge? How do you know that? Well, one, I think when you find yourself always correcting, but never building people up and exhorting people, it is probably because you find some identity and the things that you know more than you find identity and like truly like loving people. Like when First Corinthians... So being like a critic.

Yeah. When you always seem critical. And it can come out of a sincere place. Because when a person has a lot of information in their head, the temptation is always to just say it. And to tell people when they're wrong and to correct, correct, correct. But this is the reason

why I honestly think that people should pray for wisdom more than they seek knowledge. Because the thing is, a knowledgeable person, a person that has wisdom always has a measure of knowledge. But a person that has knowledge

doesn't necessarily have wisdom. That's wise. Right? And so you have to have a level of knowledge to be wise. But you don't necessarily have to have wisdom to have knowledge, right? And I think that when we have knowledge,

the only thing that we know how to do is say things. But we have wisdom, we actually know how to say it. Yeah, God. And we know when to say it. Yeah. And I think that's... You don't want people to be a smart fool. And I think that's what makes us effective.

And I think that we, one thing that we have to understand, And also too is the person that's wise is the person who has utilized all the knowledge that they have obtained in order to be effective. But when you just have knowledge, you can only correct. What does that mean? Because I think wisdom is literally the application of the knowledge that you've obtained. And so I'm effective because what I'm basically trying to say, it's not about all the knowledge that you know is how much you're able to utilize. knowledge that you know and to be effective and to be a blessing in other people's lives. And I think that when you don't move in wisdom, you're actually not impacting people.

I was having a conversation with a person that's close to me in life. And he was just saying they felt like they're brilliant. They feel like, you know, they should be at a different place as far as that social media platform, as far as their life and yada, yada, yada. but the person actually really doesn't do life with people. He just sits in his room and he just learns a whole bunch of stuff. Okay. And it's like, and so there is no application of the knowledge.

And so there is no life done, you know what I'm saying? So sometimes I think that we can learn so much information that it prevents us from being human. Interesting. It prevents us from actually doing life with people because we're so enthralled with the information that we actually don't even know how to apply it in other people's lives. Does that make sense? Yeah, because I do want to circle back to that, but it reminds me of, you know, being in seminary and how, and this isn't, it's not a criticism. It really is an observation. How even the topics my classmates would pick revealed to me the wisdom they did not have yet in the sense of, and some of it is good, right?

So, for example, I would go into this. these courses, whether it was about anthropology, soteriology, ecclesiology, eschatology, diologies, whatever it was with the viewpoint of I am only going to write a paper in this class that I can apply to my context in ministry, right? Yeah. Many of them are going into writing papers with what can I learn? Yes. And to me it was, y'all are 20. Yeah. Y'all are 20. Y'all are 20. You all are 21, 22, y'all even have, y'all haven't had ministry experience yet to be able to ask certain questions. So you're leaning primarily on filling your mind with doctrine, which is good. I'm not saying it's not good. But because I have ministry experience already, I recognize that that doctrine cannot

be applied well if I'm not thinking about how to apply it within the context God has called me too. Absolutely. That's so good. So it's like, yes, you understand atonement. Yes, you understand salvation. Yes, you understand propitiation, but the city that God has called you to, the church he's called you to serve, how can you apply your understanding of salvation to the single mother in the hood? How can you apply your understanding of the eschatology to the person who doesn't believe in life after death? That's good. But that's wisdom to say, I don't want to waste my time learning something that I can't teach right. Yeah, yeah, because that's good. You get what I'm saying.

Absolutely, I get what you're saying. Because I think what I also, what I hear you saying is that wisdom actually helps us to love. Yes, it makes you thoughtful. It makes us thoughtful about other people. And I tell people this all the time in the apologetic space. I go to apologetic conferences and I be having, you know, my white brothers and sister says, teaching about Hebrew Israelism. Why?

You literally. I don't like how you looked. You look skeptical. You literally don't live by them, right? And so I do think that, right? And it's just my black brothers and sisters is like, one, one of the things that. I'm a big fan of is, especially when it is relates to evangelism and apologetics, is not being a jack of all trades in a master of none, because when you're a jack of all

trades, you actually can't really go deep in a particular thing to help your local context. Like, the more we know about a particular thing, we can actually help our contacts better. That's good. But I also think that knowledge, when it says, First Corinthians says, this knowledge puffs up, but love builds up, right? I think sometimes that we love being able to talk about anything at a table. Yes. We love to be like, oh, you bring this up, I can talk about it.

And that people actually find identity in that. But it's just like, how effective are you? And so I think that I'm not saying that, because learning can be fun. It is fun. It is very fun to learn a new idea, to learn a new thing or whatever. And I'm not saying not learn different things. That's not what I'm saying. But what I'm saying is when you are learning it is solely for you and not for the edification of God's body.

I think then that's the problem. And that's when knowledge can start being an idol and tend to start being, you know, making you puffed up. Because the concern is knowledge is a stewardship. Okay. And so if the Great Commission is to go therefore and make disciples of all, all nations, teaching them to obey, all that he is commanded, then my knowledge should serve that call. Yeah, for sure.

To make disciples, okay? I think some of the temptation that many people who love not, some of it is, that's your temperament. God has given some people really brilliant minds where they are able to attain and retain super highfalutin ideas and da-da-da-da, like I think some people are bent in that direction. But I think the way. you guard against perverting your knowledge is to always confess how you don't want to actually

use knowledge for God's glory. You have to actually say that out loud and acknowledge. You know, Lord, this degree makes me feel really good about myself. Like, I feel important. I feel special. And truthfully, I'm going to say this as wisely as I can. When we was on the phone and we was having the conversation about people that just be knowledge flexing all the time,

I'm like truthfully, if we want to be honest, some of these people, y'all can't dress. You're not athletic. Your face is a little, you know, you are made in the image of God. Hey, you cannot say such things. I'm going to say it because what I mean is you are so unspectacular in so many arenas that you have to find one that makes you feel special and distinct from everyone. And so we have to acknowledge the way our insecurities play a part in the thing that we dignify most.

So we can hide behind our brilliance. I can't shoot a basketball, but I know Hebrew. Yeah. I didn't get all the girls, but I know Greek. Yeah. I can't, you know, I might not be able to do this, but I know my way around the Septuagint. Yeah. It's like, and I think it's, I think that's something that we all have to be careful.

about, especially for the people who grew up, which you're essentially saying not esteemed in other areas. Yes. You don't want to start using knowledge about God to make you a somebody. Jesus, you sure don't. You just don't want that to... Because it's a Pharisee and Sadducee. Yeah, because when you start finding your identity into information, especially spiritual

information, you make something so holy about you. That's a dangerous place to be. Yeah. And so we have to just be honest with ourselves and say, if I wasn't getting affirmed in high school, and now I got a podcast where people think that I'm brilliant, you know, how much of this is about me and not the Lord. Yeah, because it's, and we all do it. We're all thirsty for something. Absolutely.

You know what I'm saying? Because I, my temperament is not, I don't get, I don't feel full from being affirmed for my intelligence. I feel full for accomplishing big tasks. Yeah. That does something in me. So my ambition, my ability to complete something that is big and significant. Like that does something. But I have to, one, have some self-awareness to know that about myself and how it means that I make idols out of religious things.

That's scary. That's very scary. You know what I'm saying? That means I can take the things of God. make them God. And God forbid I'm blind and think that he's over here applauding it. And he thinks it's a filthy red. He's like, ew, that's disgusting.

I don't want that. And so I think having self-awareness, being quick to confess, and then letting him feel those places. Like he has to feel those places and say, no, like, I love you. I see you. Yeah, your face might look like the back of a foot. That's fine. I made that.

That's beautiful to me. You say the darnest things. If you might not be universally attractive, you might be Leah with weak eyes. That's what the text says. But I see you. I love you. I care for you. You're beautiful to me if you're in Christ.

Hello. Why are we all laughing? Does that not minister to somebody? You can't tell me somebody with weak eyes. They say, ooh, I feel seen. I'm pretty sure it's a cockat buckle praising right now in a car. Cut that out. We can't say caca.

I said scripture. I said scripture. Don't cut that out. That's what the weak eye mean. No, it doesn't. We don't know what it means. It's a euphemism for the fact that she was not attractive as Rachel. Oh, okay.

So you're reading into the text. Don't cut that out. That's Isojeda. Don't cut that out because my isegesis wasn't right. Maybe that's somebody who, I haven't done enough pull-ups. Not just weak. We're going to move on. The point I'm trying to make, the point I'm trying to make is we all have

insecurities that play a part in the things that we decide to do and love and how we're not honest about that and confess that, then like let the Lord fill you up. That's all I'm saying. That's all I'm saying. Okay. I want to say this too, though. I think the beautiful thing about Jesus is when you read his conversations with the Sadducees and the Pharisees in the Pharisees in particular. I love how he is always unveiling the truth behind something they thought they knew. Yes. So, for example, I'm going to read the text that Phil mentioned or taught on Resurrection Sunday. This is Matthew 22, because I think this is significant. Sadduities come to Jesus. They basically don't believe in a resurrection, all the stuff. So they over here like, hey, if this lady,

if this husband died, this husband died, this husband died, this husband die, and then she die, is all seven of them going to be her husband in heaven? Because they're trying to get at Jesus's, they believe his view of the resurrection is flawed and unbiblical. Jesus answers in verse 29. He says, but Jesus answered them, you are wrong because you neither know the scriptures nor the power of God. Pause, you got people who know their Bible,

well, the Torah, but they know it through and through. They don't have social media, they don't got Netflix, they don't got Amazon Prime. They don't got nothing but time to study. So for Jesus to be like, you know, you actually don't know what you think, you know. It's like, what are you talking about? Then verse 30, it says, for in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven and as for the resurrection of the dead,

have you not read what was said to you by God? I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. One thing that Phil brought up is something I learned in seminary, that for Jesus to say, I am the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and not I was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is to say that they are still alive. I am yet and still their God. The thing is Jesus, he doesn't just know scripture.

He is the word, but he's revealing that y'all know it, but you don't have wisdom to see what it's saying. And I think that is one of the things. that people miss is that you can know all the things all day and still miss it the messiah is right in front of your face he is the revelation of everything you know and you don't see him yeah and that is one of the threats of loving truth more than you love god is that you will know truth and still miss god yeah that's so good that's so good and speaking of not seeing him because that's exactly what it is because knowledge knowledge we can find identity in our knowledge so much that it literally blinds us.

Yes, because it's pride. It's pride. And Jesus had another encounter with the Pharisees in John 9, one of my favorite passages of all time. We know. And at the end of the John 9, so for those who don't know, Jesus just healed a man of blindness by spinning in the mud and putting the mud in the man's eyes. And then he came back to the man that he healed of blindness early in the passage.

And he walks up to the man in verse 35. And he says, do you believe in the son of man? Verse 36, it says, he answered, yes, who is he, sir, that I may believe in him. Jesus said to him, you have seen him for he is the one you were speaking to. And then he said, Lord, I believe and worshiped him. Jesus then goes on to say this. He says, for judgment, I came into the world, for those who do not see may see, and for those who see may become blind.

Some of the Pharisees near him heard him say these things and said to him, what Jesus, are we also blind? Yeah, you are. Jesus said to them, no, if you were blind, you will have no guilt. But now that you say we see, your guilt remains. And I think that, I think that's the perfect picture of a person who finds their identity and their knowledge. Is that Jesus is actually coming for people who are blind and who's humble enough to admit it. But when knowledge puffs up so much, we think that we are saved just off the knowledge that we are obtained.

And God is saying, y'all actually are going to remain blind. because y'all y'all got your knowledge got y'all walking around here acting like y'all see when y'all really don't and says so it's a whole bunch of people who know a whole bunch of information about god but actually has not seen God you know what I'm saying and so I think that's the Pharisees you know a problem they had God right in front of them but they actually couldn't recognize him and that's why their blindness couldn't be healed and so humility goes a long way when it comes to Jesus opening our eyes Jesus can't for the person who's blind, but it's humble enough to admit it and not trying to coast on their knowledge all day. Paul said this in 1st Corinthians. Where is the one who is wise?

Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom. It pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. it's like we are so addicted to being wise at our own eyes that we are more prone to being fools

than we realize. Does it make sense? It's like even God didn't save the world through the way we, like we, no one would say, hey, these people are born in Adam, they've sinned against God, they have not obeyed his law, He apparently loves them. So there has to be something that happens to keep them from that wrath. I know what we should do. They should work for it.

Yeah. They should, you know, go to church. They should pay tides. They should go knock on doors and hand out panthlets from the Jehovah's Witt. Like they should do a bunch of works because surely that's what God would want. He would want you to earn your salvation. That's the wisdom of. of the world.

It is God's wisdom that says, you know, no, I want to remove every opportunity for boasting. So the only way they can actually have access to me is through weakness, through repentance, through confession by virtue of me sending my son to die. And it's like you can only even get that kind of wisdom until you realize you don't have it. Yeah. I feel like I'm not making sense. No, no, that, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It's wisdom is so profoundly beyond us, but it's available to us if we humble ourselves and fear him.

Yeah. Because the Bible says a beginning of wisdom. Like, what is it? The beginning of the Lord is the beginning of the Lord. It's like even that's backwards. We think, okay, I'm going to read this. I'm going to get some wisdom. But can't you apply it wisely.

Yeah. You can't even if you don't fear him. And that's. I don't know why I'm getting hot. Yeah. That's a very humbling thing. You're not hot? No.

You're just getting. worked up. A little cute self. That's a very humbling thing. Yes. Because it says that we know as much as the person that we know. That's very humbling. It's saying you actually don't know nothing until you know me.

You really don't know nothing until you actually know me. And that comes against everything that the world teaches us. That comes against our pride. It's like you can have all the information in the world, but you still don't really know nothing until you know the one you were created for. And I think that's what Jesus wrestled with the disciples so much. He was like, y'all know, y'all know the Torah. Y'all know all of these Levitical laws. Y'all can quote yada yada yada yada.

This is my biggest battle with the Hebrew Israelites. Y'all know scripture front and back and y'all still get it wrong because y'all don't know him. Jesus. Christ. So y'all know. Risen. Y'all know. But y'all actually don't know. Jeez.

You recite, but you actually don't understand. And we think it's only people and other religions who struggle with that. No, it's actually people in the faith. It's actually us who struggle with the same thing. We can easily fall. I've had seasons in my Christian life

while I've coasted on old information. God is like, I want you to know me in this season. Like, I want you to know me. And actually, that's how you understood everything that you learned in the last season because you was close to me. And so like, like God wants us to keep us humble in that way. He wants us to know him. And in knowing him, we can truly know information because we understand it because it all comes from him. And I want that to encourage somebody because I have so many conversations with people who feel so inadequate.

in ministry because they don't know as much as the next person. And it's just like, but your prayer life better. Your repentance is more often. You forgive much quicker. You're much more thankful. You're much more grateful. It's like somebody like you will be used in such powerful ways and ways that, like, you could say one word and the Lord will bless it and break yokes.

Yeah. Versus the person who knows all of the day and God, uh, Deuteronomy. And it's just like, the Lord, the Lord is going to tend his words. So I'm not speaking lowly of the word. I'm saying your intimacy with God will have God use you in ways that your knowledge cannot make up for. Yeah, I love in Acts 4 when I taught on this at the Acts conference, how it said when Peter and John were released from prison after they was preaching the gospel, outside of the synagogue, and they had to stand before the council,

and they was told not to speak about Jesus anymore, and they said, no, we can't do that. And it says they were released them for prison, but the chief priest and the scribes and the religious leaders of the day, they were astonished because they recognized that they had been with Jesus. Yeah, it did. It did not say they were astonished because of their knowledge. One, we have to understand that Peter and John were both fishermen. So by trade, they were not considered the most brilliant man of their time. Right.

They didn't go to rabbi school, which would be a seminary in our time. right but it shows us that the world will always be more astonished by the power of God that is in us than it is our intellect it will always be more astonished with the power of God because anybody can learn a whole bunch of information not everybody can apply it at certain times and they applied a power a strength and a wisdom that only being with Jesus can provide and so it shows us that the most effective way to be active and effective in ministry is intimacy. It is not knowledge. Say it one more time.

The best way to be effective in ministry, it is intimacy. It is not knowledge. That church mother who fried chicken all day and got swollen ankles and pray all day and intimate with the Lord, she can go outside and be way more effective in street evangelism than the person who just came out of seminary because she has been with Jesus. She just doesn't know what to say. She knows how to say it. And that's why the Lord can use a greatly.

And so I think that should encourage everybody to know that. I don't have to know everything. I just have to be faithful with what I do know. And I know that there are those who are tempted to not be quick to listen, who would think that you are undermining the value of knowledge? No. And you're not. Because knowledge drives intimacy.

Yeah. We're saying it shouldn't drive your idolatry. Yeah. So what you know should position you in, independence should renew your mind should change the way you pray should change the way you fast should check like it shouldn't just land in the brain and not move to the heart and you got to actually work for that like like when i was when i started going to seminary um one i was thankful that i started going later in life after having just a lot more experience with the lord in ministry

and all the stuff where I knew like, this ain't going, this don't do it for me. In the sense of like, if I went when I was 20, not saying, if the Lord's calling you, go, please, I think more people should go to school. So I'm not saying don't go.

I'm saying your posture matters because I think if I was younger, that would have been an avenue of identity for me, formation, where it's like, oh, I'm smart, I'm good at something. Now it's kind of like, I'm here to love on the church.

Yeah, that's good. That really is why I'm here. Yeah. And I remember before, every class, I would say, Lord, use this class to minister to me. Use this class to help me love you. Use this class to help me love my neighbor. Like even before going into class, praying with God so that the knowledge isn't just

knowledge, but it develops and cultivates a heart for him. And so I think even that can guard some of us who might be a more academic intellectual institutions from just letting stuff stay here. It has to move down into the heart. Absolutely. And I think one thing we have to also understand is that the scripture isn't contradicting itself when it says that my people perish because of a lack of knowledge and also knowledge puffs up. It is not contradicting itself. It is saying your heart posture, the knowledge that you obtain is only effective contingent on your heart posture. It's like if your heart is right, knowledge is a great thing. But if it isn't, knowledge can be a very detriment. your spiritual walk. And so I think knowledge really can puff up. You know I mean? But if if we don't

have knowledge, it's impossible for us to truly know God and we will perish because of a lack of it. And so how our heart is matters, you know, to the Lord. I have something to say. Say it better. What came to my heart when you were talking. I don't want these people to feel like, I ain't talking to me. Because there's different manifestations of a prideful addiction to knowledge. You have those that might be in more reformed spaces that, you know, they know all the things related to predestination and election and all the stuff.

You have those in the apologetic space who know all that they know what they need to know to defend truth. They know about astrophysics and, you know, atheism and all the stuff. But we also have another portion of the church who I think gets off of what they think is secret knowledge. The prophetic. Woof. Right. Discernment. Having all of this insight that the Holy Spirit has so called given you.

Reveal tongue. Yeah. And I think we got to touch on that too. Yeah. Because that's the reason why some of y'all want to be prophets so bad is because that appeals to something in you. it makes you feel distinct to know something that you feel like only you know, only you and God. Which is the Eve and a Garden. Okay. So what I want to read is we have this growth and in high emphasis on discernment in a lot of spaces.

And I think it's good. I think Christians want to be mindful and thoughtful about what they entertain, what they watch, what they listen to, what they wear, what they touch. I think that's good. But I also think the other side of it is that some of y'all are more discerning about things that don't matter than you are about just loving Christ in each other, right? And I was talking to Dr. Sarita about this.

I was like, I feel like this is developing a new form of legalism where people think that because they didn't touch that and because they didn't go here and because they didn't listen to that because they knew that that would open up a door, that you think that that makes you closer to God than the person that isn't.

And it's like, it's like y'all over here, it's like, oh, that's a monitoring spirit. Where is that in the Bible? Have you not read? That ain't even there in the Bible. And so you discerning all these spirits on people, and I ain't saying you forgive nobody wants. And so it's just like the knowledge you think you have

is not coming out of intimacy or reverence. And this is why I want to read Colossius chapter two. He says, therefore, let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are shadows of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. Listen to this. Let no one disqualify you insisting on asceticism, which is like intense duties to the body.

Like just strict. Like I'm doing this and I'm going to hurt my flesh and I'm going to do this. It's like, okay, cool. Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels going in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind and not holding fast to the head from whom the whole body nourished and knit together through his joints and ligaments grows into a grow from God. I got to keep reading. If with Christ you die to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you are still alive in the world, you submit to regulations, don't handle, don't touch, don't taste. These referring to things at all

perishes, they are used according to human precepts and teachings. These have indeed an appearance of wisdom and promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh. What I mean is, it's like, yeah, you got this insight on Reebok. Yeah, you, that part, like, that's open. a door and all the stuff, but is it helping you die to yourself? Yeah, that's good. Are you still, like, yes, you know, you can name every spirit on that person that walked in the room, but are you in pride?

Yeah, are you gossiper? That's what I'm saying. It's like we're getting caught up on this, like, something. It looks like wisdom. Yeah. It looks like wisdom, but it ain't actually that deep. Look, but I also hear you saying is. And I'm the one that went in on Eniogram.

Yeah, yeah. I'm the one that went on on Beyonce. So I'm all about it. exposing the devil. Yeah, yeah. I'm not saying don't expose the devil. I'm saying y'all exposing the devil more than you're holding on the Christ. That's what I'm saying.

Yeah, and the evidence of you holding on the Christ is how it changes you, not much how you can see licking out into the world. And so I think we should do a podcast on like, oh, I got hot. Returning back to the basics. Because it's really about the like just the fundamentals. The fundamentals of the faith. Hold on to Christ. Yeah.

Do not touch. Don't do this. Don't do that. Don't do that. It's like we're telling people what not. to do more than we're telling people who to trust, who to love, how to worship, how to care. Like, you know what I'm saying? And it's like we're a bit in the direction of works righteousness. And so it's just a Pentecostal charismatic form of works righteousness. And we don't want to say that

out loud. Yeah, yeah, that's good. Wow. Do you think, do you think that it's a temptation to walk in that because it makes us look a certain way? It makes us look powerful. Yes. You want to be Moses so bad. You want to be Elijah. And Elijah, you want to be one of the prophets. And in Ephesians 5, the Lord has called, called, like he has given people callings and giftings to serve and build up the body of Christ. We need prophecy. We need people to say, you know, you've been wrestling with this in your heart, but the

Lord says, I see you, I know you, da, da, da, da. Like, we need people who have insight onto certain music and like, no, that ain't right, da, da, da, da. But if we are not balancing that with instruction on the person of Jesus Christ, on the gospel on the good news. You have people getting caught up in the third and second realm and they don't know how to love him on earth. That's my problem. Just do you know how to love him on the ground? That's good. Because when Jesus transfigure, he came back down on the ground. That's good. And then he told them like, why y'all can't cast out this spirit? Because they forgot to look at him.

Stress you out, didn't it? I've been, that's been in, I've been in my spirit. You got the last, that's been in my spirit. You got the Whitney Houston. You got the Whitney Houston Leap. Yeah. That's been in my spirit. I love you, Bobby. Yeah. I'm so full. I'm so full. I love you, buddy. I love everybody.

Give me in now. Crack is whack. Made too much money to smoke. Now that's been in my spirit. Shout out to Whitney. I miss Whitney. I've been processing that. Oh, this is like the new legalism.

And so I just, I hope people hear when I'm saying. Yeah. We should be discerning. Yeah, because we should, we should walk in our gifts. Because it's a different type of knowledge. I've never thought about that. I'm so glad that you brought that up because I'm in an apologetic space. Yeah, let me finish my thought.

I'm sorry, bet. That's fine. Go. I'm affirming because you have to over-affirm in this culture of unreasonableness. We should be discerning. We should expose the works of darkness. Yeah. We should, you know, be careful.

We should be watchful. We should be, we should, but we should not neglect the main thing, which is loving God. And we should be watchful of our own hearts and how quickly we will sanctify things that are really just a means of building up our own selves. That's what I'm saying. It's like if you are chasing after the gifts and if you are chasing after these prophets and if you just want to, you, it's like this hyper discernment. It's like some of that discernment ain't discernment is trauma. Yeah. Because I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I'm not a fan of just only seeing what's problematic

and just only seeing what's wrong. When God saw, when, when old boy pulled up on Jesus, he's like, oh, like you're an Israelite, you know, in whom there is no deceit. He didn't just see what was wrong about the man. Yeah. He discern what was right, the potential that he could draw out and love on. And so it's just like, at some point, this is, y'all just, y'all need to be healed. Yeah.

Before you try to prophesy. Yeah. That's all I'm saying. That's good. That's good. You know, I often refer to you and ask you questions when it comes to spaces like that. Because, you know, I didn't grow up in like. I was raised in that.

Yeah, I wasn't raised in that. And I often, you know, feel, yeah, I just often feel judged in those spaces because I don't lean charismatic. And so I think that even the way people. can judge people who might not seem like they have power, you know, like a person like me, when they don't, when they don't really value equipping and teaching is a form of prophecy. And I think that we forget that. And so I think that like, man, like in the apologetic spaces that I can, that I often go in, it's all, you know, like how much information that they know that prove that they, that the Lord. And our passage.

said something so powerful Sunday. I know I'm going to misquote him, but he was like, no, we need to know the text, and we need to walk in the power of God. They need to be paired together. And so sometimes, depending on what Christian community that you find yourself in, you can find yourself wounding people in both communities. The people in the very, you know, academic spaces, they think that you ain't nothing just because you can't explain what, you know, a systematic theology book.

is and then you got the people in the charismatic spaces. It's like, he ain't got no oil. It's like, how I don't got no oil? And I'm actually loving people. How don't I know all that I'm actually forgiving my neighbor? How I ain't got no oil? And I'm actually like not gossiping in the church. You're like being a Christian.

I'm being a Christian, but because I don't pray. And I don't say, hey, and I ain't. I ain't got to all. It's like, it's like, y'all just backwards. I don't ever want you to do that ever again. It's like, what are y'all just really backwards. Yeah. And I mean, I think because I was raised in that to a certain degree where there were

hierarchies within the church based on someone's perception of power. And I think I'll be lying if I wouldn't say because I have certain giftings and certain leanings, I can be tempted to deceive myself in thinking, oh, because you can function in the prophetic, because you do have dreams, because you can teach, because you can't, like, you're powerful. but it's just like I'm often reminded of Christ. He's over here like greatest in the kingdom is servant of all. So if you are speaking in the tongues of angels but you have not love, but you mean you're not serving, you're not that powerful.

Yeah. That's not power. That's weak. Yeah. And I also want to just say too, even in, you know, It's so hot in here. First Corinthians. Is it First Corinthians when it says love is not prideful, love is not boast?

First Corinthians, 13. Yeah, love is. Love Keeps No Record or wrong. We quote that a lot in weddings and beautiful, like, gatherings. But it's actually one of the biggest rebukes to the church. Hello. It is basically saying to this very young church that y'all operate in all the gifts that y'all make a lot of noise and you're operating a lot of power,

but the fundamental things of the faith, y'all actually are failing at. And so it's a rebuke to them. And it's like, y'all got all this power. Yeah. But when y'all go back home and y'all little small groups, all y'all do is gossip. Y'all pray the house down. Yeah, you do. But you don't know how to like successfully not walk in pride in the season.

And so I think God just wants all of us, people in the high academic spaces and people in the extreme charismatic spaces who feel like everybody got to walk around with their little own personal oil bottles. He wants all of us to return back to the basis and say, if you don't understand the fundamentals, you're actually missing out on what Christianity is. You know what I'm saying? And so when I walk with young men, that's what I try to teach them to do. It's like, no, like, who cares if you're quoting the same scripture all the time? If you can apply that scripture successfully, you're actually being a more effective Christian than a Christian who knows a whole bunch of scripture. That's great.

And so, yeah. All right. Peace. With the Perry's is produced by The Perrys with support from Amanda Reed and Channing McBride, video recording and audio production by Matthew Baxter and Xavier Fairley, edited by the team at Tread Libely, artwork by hop and music by swoop. Thank you for listening. Now go with God.