With The Perrys - The Work of Mind Renewal

Episode Date: August 31, 2026

Jackie and Preston are back with new episodes, and they’re kicking things off with a two-part conversation on the battlefield of the mind. Our minds have a lot to say, all the time. What we think about – and ultimately what we believe because of those thoughts – will dictate the way we behave, communicate, and relate to one another. What does it look like to “train” your mind and take every thought captive? How does trauma impact your thoughts and emotions? And what practical things can you do to guard your mind against the enemy? Be sure to come back next week for part two! Scripture references: 2 Corinthians 10:3-6 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 This Episode is Sponsored By: https://branchbasics.com - Get 15% OFF the Premium Starter Kit with code PERRY! https://gominno.com/ - Sign up online with code PERRY to get your first month FREE! https://shopify.com/perry - Sign up for your FREE trial today! - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everyone, how are you, Saints and Nates? It's been, it's been a long time. Has it? What's up with y'all? Yeah, they've been watching, what do you call those? Yeah. Repeats or whatever. Yeah, this girl, and I literally haven't been on social media like that a lot.

And so I just came back from Chicago yesterday and I was at Legacy Conference and this girl was like, so y'all just want to give us reruns all summer? Yeah, then we actually are. I was like, I was like, what are you talking about? I was like, oh, yeah, reruns our plan right now. I was like, yeah, I was like summer is the down season. You know how many pastors stop preaching during May and June and July? Yeah, they want us to do podcasts like 365. And we would have, it just was a lot going on.

It was a lot. It was a lot going back to school. Sickness in the family trials and tribulations. It's just like we won't, we don't have nothing to say. And so let's figure it out. But here we are. We're back in full effect. How do you feel, Preston Perry?

You know, I just came back from Chicago. I'm very tired. Not only did I have a conference out there, but also had a funeral. And my family... They're one of a kind. Yeah, my family, like, I don't even think people realize the stock that I come from. I think they do. I don't think they do.

Okay. Tell us. I think you do. Maybe because I lived in Chicago. Chicago is a different kind of place. No, but you, you, like, remember the first time you, because, so to give you our context, when me and Jackie start dating, I was already close with my dad's side of the family who are all, like, church. Yeah. You know.

And so I said, Jackie, when you come around my mom's side of the family, yeah, everything's going to make sense. You're going to, like, really understand me holistic. And you said you had fun when you was around my... Yeah, I actually feel more comfortable around what you... Gentiles. I don't know how else to say it. So I'm going to tell y'all real quick. I'm going to say it without saying it.

You're going to say that you're not going to say it like the way Proverbs would tell you to say it. I am going to say the way Proverbs said it. So the first time Jackie came around my family, you know what I'm saying? Because my family, we are lively family, but we like, we hood babies, right? And so Jackie was in my cousin house. I'm not going to say it. I am going to say it.

I think he was playing cards. Was you playing cards? I was just sitting on the couch or whatever. And so, you know, my family, my family wild. So they in there playing spades, we in there, you know what I'm saying, very loud. There was a DJ in the living room. DJ in the living room. It's six of us there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then more people I start coming, you know what I mean? Then one of my cousins came. And I'm not going to say. They had grilled drum sticks. And no sides. Just meat. She said, she talked about that for years.

Now, granted, I don't think we're married. I don't understand. No, we were engaged. We were engaged. But it's like, why aren't there no sides? So one of my cousins came in, all my cousins, while, one of my cousins came in. Like an animal. She said, she came in, you know, what a how, you know, being typical her. And one of my cousins, like, where you been?

And so she was like, girl, I was in a car giving fallacious. But she didn't say that. She wasn't in the car. She said that's what she did that morning. Oh, yeah. But she shared it to me with excitement and glee. I just met you. I just met you.

I just met you. That's a piece of information that wasn't necessarily necessary for our first meeting. The first meeting with you. So I'm sitting there looking and I'm like in the cut. And Jackie's face was priceless. Yeah, I'm not approved. So I'm not like, oh my God. It's just like, we just met.

You understand what I'm saying? And you're like mad close to me. Talk about like it gives, you ain't even like take no. Like you didn't even wash your mouth out. Like you're talking way too close to me with too much excitement about the activity that you just participated in. No wonder. I ain't got no sides. Y'all minds is in other places besides a full course meal.

Because you eat another stuff. You understand? Man, I love them, though. We're going too far. I love them. I love them, man. Going too far. It was funny because Jackie's face was like.

Yep. Yeah. With house music in the back. Because mind you, she doing all of this with a DJ. And it's six of us with chicken and no sides. But let me. Let me. People did bring sides eventually.

No, no. People run sides eventually. No, no. Oh, I think my cousin. It was some chips. That's a side. I don't want no grill drumsticks with a side of chips. Oh, like, at that particular...

It's supposed to be spaghetti. It's supposed to be some baked beans. Supposed to be some potato side. No, no, no. At that particular cousin house, that's, that side is like acceptable. That's crazy. Don't have a party. You got a DJ but no sides.

Priorities. Okay, okay, listen. But did you enjoy yourself? It was cool. It was cool. No, you enjoyed yourself. It was cool. You had fun.

Fun is crazy. Was it entertaining? Yeah. That's all that matters. We had a good time. All right. So we're going to talk about battlefield of the mind today. About how, you know, the devil plays with your mind and your thoughts and things like that.

And so, because we need to pivot on off of these. I don't want nobody coming down to Atlanta trying to fight me because I had an issue with the fact that you ain't want to have no details out. I won't let that happen. Okay. What we're talking about today? battle field of mine just said it oh yeah you did just said uh so in second corinthians 10 starting at verse 3 paul says this he says for though we walk in the flesh we are not waging war according to the flesh for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds

we destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of god and take every thought captive to obey christ being ready to punish every disobedience obedience when your disobedience is complete. I think the reason why this conversation is necessary is because our... I'm just pulling up the scripture, man. Oh, okay. Sheesh. I'll let you do it.

We can pause. Okay. No, no, no, no. No, I'm listening. I want you to have this. No, no, no, no, no. Because now I have to put it on the spot. No, come on, go.

Go. Isn't everyone fine waiting? No, just go, babe. Okay, Second Corinthians, 10, verse three, I think is important because our minds have a lot to say all the time. All the time. And our minds are the thing in relationship with our heart that is dictating the way we live, the way we communicate, the way we listen, what we do. and even Jesus says we are to love the Lord our God with all of our mind. And so it's important for us, I think, to have a conversation of how to take thoughts captive

so that we are able to love God with the mind that he's given us. What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, man, I think the mind is really the gateway to everything. I think the enemy knows if you can get our minds, it can just affect all of the of our behavior. Correct. Everything. And so I think guarding our minds is so important, you know,

because when you see people struggling with sin, it is often thoughts that they believe about the Lord. For sure. Doubts that they believe about themselves. And it all starts there, you know. And when you see somebody, you know, even fall away from the Lord, the first thing that goes is their mind, you know. And so, yeah, I think it's really important.

And also just being someone who has struggled in my mind greatly at times, I know that's a thing for me. The Bible says that cleaning this is next to godliness. So we all have to have a clean house. We are walking around here like dirty butts, bucko. But what we clean our house with is important. A lot of times we clean our house with a whole bunch of stuff. They had a bunch of chemicals in it. This is the reason why if you use products that is healthy,

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I was out of my mind. Like, my mind was like here. I was outside of it. Okay. Tell us, what's that mean? I was just reckless. You know what I'm saying? Like I, you know.

So you didn't think? I didn't think at all. I didn't think at all. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, I was the type of person. If you said something to me, if you disrespected me,

even if I thought that you can whip me, I would just swing on you. I was the type of person, you know, I was a thief. And so, you know, I kicked out of multiple corner stores. You know, like I was that little boy, like, when my picture was in the corner store. Like, I can't go back in this corner store because I stole so much stuff out of here. That's crazy. Like, I was just, you know, I was just sinful.

You know what I'm saying? And, but also, too, I just was a person who held a lot of resentment in my heart. you know, for people and, you know, grudges and stuff like that. But at the same time, it's a very, I think underneath all sin is a lot of trauma, you know, a lot of things that happened to me in my life that I didn't know how to process. I didn't know the Lord, nor did I, you know, have anybody to put me in therapy, which I probably needed, you know, seeing the things that I saw and going through the things that I went through. But yeah, I think that's the type of person that I was.

Because I think some of what you're saying, is important in the sense that even before Christ and even in Christ, there are times, I think all the time, actually, where it's not just that we need help thinking or how to think, but we need help with what to think. Right? So if you are a young boy who is, you are processing, you are thinking, but you're coming to conclusions that are usually not true and then living your life based on a lie

that you thought through, resonated with, and concluded that this is the way to be. You understand what I'm saying? And I think that's actually been a part of parenting for us is that we didn't have space

to process our thoughts. You get what I'm saying? So we're having to figure out abuse, figure out pain, figure out, you know, I'm overheard. experience in same sex desires at five, six with nowhere to go. Yeah.

To process those ideas and thoughts. And I think that's been a really intentional thing for us as parents is like, no, I want to help you think. Yeah. Because you're always thinking, but I want to intercept the way that the enemy is helping you think. Yeah. Or not helping you. But you know what I'm saying? Leveraging.

You know, that's crazy. I just talked about the conference I did in Chicago this weekend. and me and Lecrae and just past the Brian Dow we did a panel and at the end of the panel at the crowd asks questions and this lady asks us

how do we disciple our kids and that's the answer that I gave them I said because I think what happens is we see people grow up and get rocked by so many different laws not because we didn't necessarily teach them truth but we didn't teach them how to critically think

and that's what I told them And I was just like, and so what does it look like from when you see your child actively, like, struggling with a lot? It's one thing to say, that ain't true. Believe God. It's another thing to say, why you believe that? What are some of the laws that you believe about yourself? Let me, let me, and help them like, because I think it's a difference between somebody telling you truth. It's like, it's like teaching a person out of fish and giving them fish.

It's the same thing. Like, you're going, they're going to eat. But if you teach them how to fish, they can, they can work it out for themselves. And I think that's the same thing when it comes to helping us to critically think through, you know, laws, you know, about ourselves. And so I think that's one thing that we're trying to do well with our children. Yeah. We didn't have that growing up. No.

And it led me down a lot of paths. I think even a practical example is like a recent conversation that we had. with Eden. Eden is very, um, I don't know how to describe her. She, she just turns into a lawyer,

uh, when she's backed in the corner. Yeah. You know, um, because like Preston, very smart, really smart, really logical,

but also really justice oriented, which can manifest itself in talking back and having an attitude and getting angry. And there's one method that says, you stop talking to me, crazy or I said what I said. That works sometimes. Like I'm all for that. But then there,

there was a conversation that we had where she was responding to someone in a way that was disrespectful, but we got underneath it and she was just sharing how she felt blamed about something and she ultimately felt like she had to defend herself. And that was the question we asked is, do you feel like you have to defend yourself? So it's one thing to say, stop talking back. It's another thing to actually discern that the talking back is actually a sense of justice here is that I feel like I have to defend myself because I'm backed in the corner. And then is where we change or help to cultivate a different perspective, which is your sense of justice is right. It's good. I enjoyed this conversation. You should, like it's not crazy to say this is unfair and

da, da, da, da, da, but the route you're taking to get to that end will never work for you. And so that's a part of training her how to think through not only her own temperament, but also the different methodologies that she's using to accomplish a goal that is a good goal, but you're, you're, you're, you don't have good methods. And so those types of conversations, I think, is a part of helping your child develop certain thinking skills underneath the law of God. Yeah, this is, this is good. But what's crazy is as we're talking, we're talking about how we're pointing to our 11 year old daughter and helping her think through things. But this is practical for a. Christians that's grown today.

Correct. Like, we need to learn this. We need to learn this still. And I think, because I think essentially what we're saying is, like, if we don't do, you know, this with eating, she can grow up with the, with the lie in her head that I have to defend myself. And trying to defend yourself will get in the way of your godliness. Yes. Because God is your defender. Yes.

God brings ultimate justice. And I think a lot of times our upbringing and what we think in our minds just gets in the way of our godly, our godliness. Because that type of process, that kind of, it's like her desire and our desire to defend ourselves comes alongside of ideas that I am my only defense. You understand. God is not necessarily going to take up for me. God's vengeance is not sufficient. God is not going to come to my aid. And so you end up defending yourself independent of God. And therefore you sin against the person that sin against you. And so that's why the way we process has to change so that we actually don't cause more harm in an effort to protect ourselves from harm. And that's not to say don't speak up for yourself. We're not saying just be out here and getting punched in the face. It's not what I'm not. I'm saying. But we're saying that the way we do it, we have to think through the way we do it, so we do it well. Yeah. And I hope this makes sense, because the way I happen in my mind, but I think helping people work through that is also good, because I think a lot of times what we believe about people that gets transferred to the Lord, those lies. Because, for example,

I think in that conversation with Eden, not only did we help our purpose. Did we help our process how she felt, but we helped her see that we see her. Like, and I think, I think underneath unbelief is this, is this lack of belief that God sees me. And so for me, I know there has been times where I've had conversations with you and you help me process something. I'm like, oh, Jackie sees me. And it makes me believe that if Jackie sees me, I know the Lord sees me.

And I do think the way we interact with one another is a reflection. I think God uses people to help us to believe truths about him. And so I think that's just really important because I know for me, when I feel seen by people, a lot of times that gets transferred to me being seen by the Lord, feeling seen by the Lord. Find the stuff for your kids to watch that ain't crazy, nasty, diabolical, heinous, horrific, isn't really the easiest thing in the world. I think most of us want our kids to watch something fun, but we also want them to watch something that's fun that also points to Jesus.

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some of the lies that we might believe when we feel mistreated or stuff like that. It's not just that we're dealing with ideas. We're dealing with ideas in relationship to emotions. And so for me, when I am highly emotional, if I'm angry, I'm not going to think straight. You get what I'm saying? It's like, it's something about the emotions that become so big. that your mind actually can't categorize the thoughts well enough to be able to do what's right and what's good.

Yeah. And so I think it's also helpful to even know yourself enough to know, you know, I got to step away from this conversation because I'm going to believe the devil and spazz out on you. I just am just because that's just the way my heart is. Like let me step away for a moment, breathe do some somatic exercises, breathe in, breathe out, breathe in, breathe out, touch my heart or something, rub my hands. Usa.

That is actually so necessary. You know what I'm saying? Because like sometimes we can't be that Christian in the moment. We need to be a little bit human and figure out what we're going to do. Yeah. I don't know if that makes sense. Yeah, no. I think we all need those cool off, cool off moments to, because the mind in the moment can tell you something.

And it's very hard not to believe the mind in the moment, especially when a moment. especially when emotions. As for a woman, because I know women and men are different. I think men are highly emotional too. Extremely. You know, but like, what are some practical? Are there other practical tools that a woman can,

or just any question? Well, what I'm really when I'm speaking to the idea of is having a sense of how you think, like asking yourself what environment allows me to think best. And so that means that if I'm having a highly volatile, volatile conversation, if I know that I won't think best when my emotions are high, then that means I need to communicate that to the person I'm communicating to, step away, calm down my emotions so that I can think a certain kind of way so that I can love the person in front of me.

You know what I'm saying? If it's, you know, I need 10, 15, 20, 30 minutes in the morning before anything starts because if I just get at it, I'm going to be productive. but I'm going to be anxious. I'm going to be fruitful, but I'm going to have an attitude. Why? Because I didn't have a second

to just say la and calm my mind down. Because I think a part of us developing a habit of thinking well and thinking on what is true and thinking on what is godly or loving God with our mind is also knowing the environments that serve our brain.

Does that make sense what I'm saying? So it's like, I don't know what that would be for you. Like for you, it's fishing. You know, like if I step up, step away and get in front of some water, it's going to regulate my brain in such a way that I can show back up in my home, in my relationships, in my businesses, in my ministry, in a way that serves people. Yeah, that's good.

I think that's important. That's really good. Are there any practical tools that you've, other practical tools that you use throughout your Christian life to say, this is what I need for my mind to like change. I'm still figuring that out. Yeah. Because I'm a person who I was raised alone. And a lot of what I did growing up is that it's my default to process with myself

to kind of stay in my head because that feels safer than getting what's in my head out of my head. And so, and I think it's served me intellectually. I think it served me when it comes to being able to study deeply and for long periods of time to be able to process on a certain level to have a degree of depth. But the same processing tools and depth that I have that work for me also can be turned against me where the same degree of, I guess, Being here when it comes to scripture, if I'm here when it comes to shame, it's not a good thing.

You know what I'm saying? It can become a really dark place. And so I'm trying to practice getting it out, whether that's in a journal. And I don't personally like journals. I don't like writing, like physically writing. I'm not a fan. But it has been a really strange experience that when I write in a journal, some of the load has been lifted. Yeah.

And so it's like it's a way for me to process alone, but process in a way that actually feels more effective. Yeah, that's good. So that's very practical. That's good. Yeah, I think another thing that helps my, yeah, I need to start journaling. Yeah, I got a new one. I'll give it to you. Really?

Yep. Yeah, I need to start journaling. I don't like it either. Yeah, it just feels like, why am I writing? Like, I just don't, but there's some type. Does it not? Does journaling not feel practical to you? I think it's laziness.

I just, I don't, I rap. Like, even if I go shopping, for example, you know, people that make lists for stuff, I think I take a pride of keeping everything here in a way. And so I think- That's how you miss some butter and stuff like that. I actually never miss anything. That's the crazy part. And so I think-

You miss some of the things I'd be giving you. Like, hey, you didn't get that from me, Jackie. Tell me the last time I did that. My mind not working right. I know. that's not a thing and so I think it feels like why am I writing out my feelings

like it's just why am I doing that but I was reading about journaling and how there is some type of connection between the act of slowing down your thoughts enough to write them in a sentence that actually organizes your thoughts in a way that just processing

your thoughts independent of the tactile act of writing it can't accomplish. And so I think there is a science to it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Another, yeah, that's good. Another thing when it comes to renewing or just helping our minds is understanding that practices play a big part of our minds being a particular way. Because like even in Romans where Paul says, do not be conformed by the patterns of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. that where patterns is literally just pointing to habits and systems that we operate in in in the world that makes it very hard for our minds to think differently. Right.

And so I think he's saying the world practice and has habits of unforgiveness, has habits of gossip, has habits of not forgiving their neighbor, has habits of pride. And you could be in the body of Christ but still have in particular sin patterns and habits that makes it very hard for you to think differently. And so I think what Paul is saying, you got to stop doing certain things, you know, in order for your mind to change. You know what I'm saying? Because if you don't stop doing certain things, your mind is never going to change. And I think I was just around people this weekend, you know, who in their mind, it's like, no. it's practical for me to treat you a certain way if you treat me a certain way. But that's so anti-gospal.

You know what I'm saying? I was around people. It was like, you disrespect me. I'm a disrespect you. That's anti-gospels. So I think God wants us to have good habits. And I think that comes with just discipline. You know, and so for me, I've grown in certain areas and I'm still growing in certain areas.

I just remember when I first came to Christ, it was hard for me not to think about certain people in a certain way. Yeah. Which then always impacted how I loved people. Correct. You know what I'm saying? And so I had to stop having particular sin patterns that made it very easy for me to assume the worst of my brothers and sisters. For years, we used Shopify, you know, on tours. poetry tours, podcast tours, but also for our bold apparel clothing line, Shopify has been an

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And so I think going backwards would be good In the sense of I was listening to this sermon By John Mark Homer He has this book called Live No Lies And he was talking about how Satan's interaction with Eve and Adam in the garden, Satan's interaction with Jesus in the wilderness, it tells us that the way that Satan deals with human beings is on the level of the mind, reason, the intellect, and how in essence, Satan cannot make you sin. All he can do is

suggested. And how if we are people who have been redeemed, who have been saved, who have been united to Christ to live like Christ, to love Christ, that it means to actively guard your mind and train your mind to think a certain way is actually a discipline that helps holiness. Like you can't be holy if you don't train your mind to think a certain kind of way. You know what I understand? So it's just like that starts to make me think like, oh, what lies am I believing in this season? Because we all grow up believing lies. Namely lies about God, lies about ourselves, lies about our selves, lies other people. And because we have a sinful heart, the heart is deceitful, we enjoy those lies. Those lies are convenient. Those lies are comfortable. It could be lies about your body.

My body is my own. It could be lies about the Lord. God is not just. It could be lies about your neighbor. Everybody, I can't trust nobody. Like, when it comes to God, that ain't none of that ever true. But it's like these lies dictate what we do. They become belief systems in our heart. and in our bodies and therefore in our behavior. And I think, depending on where you are in the Lord, you might have overcome previous lies, but you might have new lies that don't seem as diabolical as the other ones. Let me explain.

So the Lord has been dealing with me when it comes to my mind and showing me like, no, when you first became a Christian, like you went to war on lustful thoughts. You went to war on perversion. You went to war on greediness and things that like I was snatching you out of. But when it comes to shame, when it comes to hoping the best in people, when it comes to not rehearsing the harm that people have caused you, you entertain them as if they are not as evil. There's still lies. You understand what I'm saying?

And it's like that same energy, that same warfare that you used to put to death perversion is the same warfare that I need you to because interoperable. because entertaining those thoughts are actually keeping you from loving me and loving your neighbor. Yeah. Period. Yeah. What would you say to people who entertain thoughts, but they say, they say, I'll be seeing stuff. Like discernment. Yeah.

I be seeing stuff in people that ain't good. And it's hard for me not to entertain thoughts when I be seeing stuff that is potentially, harmful. And I think seeing stuff in people gives people a more of an inclination to

want to protect themselves if they see. You know what's crazy is this is our struggle. That's why you brought it up. Yeah. Because me and Preston Yeah, you said this other day.

Yeah, we were both raised a certain kind of way. I think depending on how you were raised, like you're raised to be hypervigilant, hyper-observant to protect yourself. but I think also when you have the gift of discernment you are able to just see things that other people don't see like it's been times where I saw something and something

I don't know if you remember this I saw something somebody in Houston and you shared it with a friend and their friend was like that's not who they are and I told Preston I was like they don't see how I see they don't see what I see and so it's like it's not going to make sense you know what I like But they saw eventually. Yeah. They came back, but Jackie was right.

But it's like in the moment, sometimes when you have a gift of discernment or just a sermon in general, if you have the Holy Spirit, you're going to be discerning. It can be a bit, how do I say? It can be used against you

in the sense that you will potentially have the like, how do my brain is going all over the place it can be used against you wherein you only discern what's wrong you only discern the potential for sin and to me that's where your hypervigilance is actually hijacking your gift because if i am only always seeing what's wrong and never seeing what's right and needs to be cultivated to grow and mature then there's a problem with my discernment because that means that my discernment is actually not being anchored in love. And so that's why I think 1st Corinthians 13 is important where it says love is patient and kind. Love does not envy or boast.

It is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way. It is not irritable or resentful. It does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. And so I think we have. We have. have to discern with love. We have to discern in love. And I think a part of what helps that is intercession. When I first became a believer, one of my mentors told me, God doesn't show you things for you to judge people. God doesn't show you things for you to even just think more highly of yourself. God shows you people so you can intercede. And so the more discerning you are, the more prayerful you need to be. And I really believe that if you're a prayerful person, an interceding

person, then you'll have compassion on the things that you actually discern. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And also, too, healing from trauma. Because if you don't heal from trauma, your trauma is always going to affect your discernment and the way you see. And if the way you see is affected, you're going to be looking at people more. more than you're praying for them. You're going to be looking at people with a side eye and you ain't going to be on your face. And I think the enemy knows that.

And I think the enemy wants to utilize past traumas, past pains, past, you know, portrayals and all of these things to affect the way we see. Because if he can affect the way we see, he can affect the way we love. And that's the thing. Even like, you know, people felt the way that we like to expose false prophets and false teachers. Well, Paul did too. He was hate it because it...

One of the things that I see now that concerns me is that if you are always quick to say that someone has a spirit on them and you move with them according to the so-called spirit you're discerning, what that means is you are also absolving yourself from maybe the mission that you're supposed to be a part of in that person's life. because your discerning of the spirit has you hypervigilant and protective instead of missional. And so, yeah, maybe I do see some so-called Jezebelic tendencies, even though that's not a spirit in the Bible. Maybe I do see a spirit of pride. Maybe I do see a spirit of, I don't know, greed. But the question that the Lord has been asking me is, why are you not asking me for the discernment of how to serve them? You see what's wrong with them and then you make a conclusion. that you need to protect yourself from them,

but you never ask the question if I want to use you in their life. And I think that's a part of the issue of the human part is that the Lord actually has us on mission with everyone. That ain't to say don't have boundaries. That ain't to say don't have wisdom. But I think our tendency is not to choose or decide upon love or wisdom first. It's self-preservation. What is the balance, though?

So talk about the balance. Yeah, so the person who's saying, I hear you, Jackie. I hear you saying, you know, we have to love and yada, yada, yada, yada. But what is the balance of saying, you know, maybe God doesn't want me in this person? Like, maybe God wants me to back up. Like, because I do think. Pray. I think we come to conclusions about what we're supposed to do without actually asking what the will of the Lord is.

That's true. That's what I'm saying. It's like, you're unsafe. You got this. I see that. And we made a decision about how we should exist in this person's life out of of fear, not out of love first. Yeah. And so if the-

And I'm somebody that don't rock with 99% of people. So clearly I understand hypervigilates. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when the fear is, because I do think this is all about the mind. Because I think, I think trauma just messes up people, man. When the fear is removed, what do you think then, how, like, how was a person supposed to move with a person who they don't feel is safe or, you know, all of the things. Hey guys, we know you are probably enjoying this conversation on some level, but it went long and so we're just going to do a part too. Because she kept talking.

Sure. And so see you next week. Peace. With the Perrys is produced by the Perrys with support from Amanda Reed and Channing McBride, video recording and audio production by Matthew Baxter and Xavier Fairley, edited by the team at Tread Libely. Artwork by Hobb. Thank you for listening. Now go with God.