With The Perrys - Theology for Teens with Alena Franklin

Episode Date: February 23, 2026

What began as a childlike love for Jesus was tested when Alena Pitts Franklin's mom died suddenly when Alena was just 14 years old. Alena’s grief challenged and deepened her understanding of who God is, revealing what she truly believed about His character. Alena has written a devotional called “God Is,” designed for teen girls and young women to understand God’s character – infinite, omnipotent, ever-present, good, loving, and our safe place. Theology isn’t just academic, it’s practical, personal, and essential for teens walking through real life.  Scripture references: Isaiah 41:10 Check out Alena's book, God Is ― A Devotional for Teen Girls & Young Women: 60 Days of Learning Who God Is to Understand Who We Are: https://www.amazon.com/Devotional-Teen-Girls-Young-Women/dp/B0DT8KRZZK This Episode is Sponsored by: https://timtebow.com/tree-perry/ —  Get your copy of If the Tree Could Speak by Tim Tebow on Amazon today! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, Saints and Ains. I hope you are blessed. Hope you are well. Hope you feel. All right. I feel with y'all. How y'all feel? I don't know about your home or your families, but there is just.

You're about to say something crazy. There is a spirit of infirmity running all up and through here. Factual. Fevers and colds and in yucky tummies and hand mouth. That's why I'd be hating when school season start because I'm like, y'all are going to get me sick. Well, let's be. Little nasty kids y'all around all day. more than them. So what we're not going to do is shame them for what we might have brought in here.

I'm just saying that kids carry more germs than adults. And now they talk about the new kids with this new disease, hand foot and arm disease. Arm is crazy. What is that? Hand foot and mouth. What is it? Hand foot and mouth. Back of the day, we had chicken pox. We had measles. Yeah. And the generation before they had polio, I think the Lord is like, hey, I don't need you to be content. I just kind of feel like the name of the disease was so lazy. Y'all was just a, y'all was very disparate. It's just, yeah, we're going to call this hand foot and toe disease. Mouth. Whatever it is. It's like, it's going on. You just got over sickness. How are you? I was down. So I knew I was going to get sick when all the kids got sick. But I didn't think

it was going to hit me like that. I was like, yo, I feel like I got all y'all sickness at the same time. Jackie sending me soup downstairs. I did. I was out of town. I was in Africa. Have you gotten sick yet? I was sick in Africa. Oh, yeah, you were. That was last week.

Anywho, they got nothing to do what we were talking about. We got Elena Franklin on the couch. Hey. Hey. It is Franklin. Yes. No disrespect. I've been saying Elena Pitts Franklin, you know.

Are you hyphenated? I don't know what I am. I did change it. Did you change your social security? I did. Okay. But I haven't committed so my driver's license, all my other IDs are still Alina Pitts. How do you feel about that?

because we're speaking to her husband he's off camera it took me about three or four years to change my social security card I didn't feel like doing it it wasn't a lot I didn't feel like I changed the passport yeah I haven't done that I lost so for those who don't know you are married to Kirk Franklin's son I am and he looks just like Kirk Franklin's mom's come say hi come say hi come stay hi You got moisture ice. You understand what I'm saying? And I'd be hating. Sit next seat, wife.

Go sit next to you in. Say hi. Look at the camera. There's there. Look at it. How y'all doing? Don't they look like newlyweds? And I just be hating when you know when people like associate us with our, our famous, you know, family.

Why do you do it? Because you just look like, oh, Kirk. I think you look like your mama. Right. She would like that. My mom would appreciate that. No, I think you. You look like both.

You look like both. You look like both. You look like both. You look like both. You look handsome young man. When did y'all get married? August of last year So we just hit a year

Wow What y'all do Where y'all go? To somebody Mount Sinai Where y'all go? We went to We did Kilimanjaro this past

Yeah In Africa we were in Kilimanjaro Wow It was horrible Sorry And both of y'all are creative I've seen you with the guitar I've seen you with the guitar

And so when y'all start Be a fruitful multiply Your kids are probably going to have Some like 90 gifts Yeah they might be a little weird I've been thinking about that I'm like how do we make sure they can interact with regular people.

Because they might just be. When y'all figured out, we want y'all back on this couch. Yeah, man. To tell us how I went. We're going to do a part two. I'm with y'all. Thank you, Mr. Franklin. Everybody counted clap up for Mr. Franklin.

That boy be hiking. I'd be sitting on Instagram. You be hiking. Climbing trees. We're going to put both Instagrams and show notes. The aesthetic is fire because I wish they would hike and not take good pictures. Oh, yeah. Truthfully.

Yeah. Your pictures be fired for real, for real. I love it. but Alina wrote a book called God is, subtitled 60 Days of Learning Who God is to understand who we are for teen girls. I think this book is interesting. Do you know why? I already shared it.

Because it's theology. I told her, I say, anytime you say God is, you are becoming a theologian. Because now we're defining God's nature using scripture. God is God and there's a lot to him that is mysterious and yet revelatory and insightful. And so you decided to write a very plain book of theology for young girls. What? I don't want to say what made you write it because that's a boring question. But was there any intimidation in approaching this subject?

Yeah. Actually, the intimidation came afterwards when I realized. I realized I had to talk about it, I had to share about it, and I had to like, yeah, in a sense, talk about a very theological topic. But entering it actually felt very natural because they're just, it's all over the Bible, first of all. And then second of all, it's all over our lives. Like, God's character is written in my life. And so I didn't realize until afterward. And then doing the theological edits and all those things that I was like, oh my gosh, what have I gotten myself into? What have you got into? Yeah. You talk about how,

A lot of your wrestling coming to terms with the nature of God came through grief. For those who don't know your story, don't know what that means, are hesitant to even pick up the book. Because they're like, I don't want to know who God is. I want to know who I am. Like, what, can you give us a preview of what you mean by that? Yeah. My introduction to grief was at 14. My mom died suddenly, tragically, like in the span of an hour.

and as you can imagine that's awful and then being in it it's more awful than you could possibly imagine and one of the things that I realized very quickly was not right and probably got a little bit skewed in the midst of the grief was my understanding of God the way that I viewed him the way that I thought about him my approach to him yeah grief suffering it all I just realized kind of skewed my view and then at the same time perfected my view of him. Like there was just this wrestle. Like I called the book Remnants of My Russell with him and who he is in the midst of like things that I didn't think he should have allowed. And yeah, that's kind of, I guess, a backstory to How did you see him before the grief that was changed? I loved him. I don't think I ever even thought

about like I think loving him was natural. And that sounds so much. naive, but I came from a family that not only, like, talked about Jesus, but they represented him really, really loved and believed in him. And so, which I'm blessed to be able to say, coming from a ministry family, it's like, oh, they were the real deal, and they really were in love with Jesus. So he just kind of was like second nature to me. And so, yeah, I had a very pure childlike view of him. And then, yeah, when life happens, I think we grew up a little bit and it it's harder. I think what's beautiful about that is like I don't I don't really think it matters what age you are. Pain has a way of either perfecting faith like you said or destroying it. Like pain can reveal

if you don't actually believe and I think I've seen in my life the temptation to kind of move away from the Lord because it hurts so much but still clinging because the Holy Spirit is at work and observing friends who didn't. You know what I'm saying? So it's a grace for you to come out of this and say, no, he still is. And I know this even more that he is good. He is true.

He is the way. Yeah. And also how pain and suffering can have the ability to show you different aspects of God's character, you know? Because it's like we know how much he's a comforter when we suffer grief, you know, and stuff like that. And so I guess my question is when you experience that. like at an early age.

You said she died within the span of an hour, like very briefly. That's hard. How did God reveal himself to you in new ways when you leaned into him and trusted him through that? I think I learned first and foremost, God is kind of gritty. Like, that's the only word I can think of is he's just in the hardest of hard. Like, I just thought of war and just like his presence in. that, I think we don't associate him with that at all. And then when we're in the midst of war, I mean, he's just right there. Like, we're looking at him. And he's still, and he's perfect,

and he's also in it with us. Like, I just imagine, yeah, him in, him in, he's greedy. He's greedy. He likes to get in there and do the dirty work. And at the same time, he's not like us. So, like, there's no chaos attached to his being in our chaos and our pain. Like, he's just still. And so that's, yeah, that's what I learned about it. That's good. How did your parents' discipleship, like, prepare you to suffer? Some stories are so familiar, we almost forget what they cost. Have you ever wondered what it would be like if the cross itself could tell its story?

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this helps you see it with fresh eyes. What you get from this book will stick with you long after you put it down. The first time I heard about the concept of this book, I was very intrigued because I thought it was unique that they told a story from the tree's perspective. And a lot of times in the Christian community and just religious books as a whole, can lack creativity and storytelling.

And so that's the reason why I think this book is a dope book for everybody to read because he gives us a fresh perspective that we've never seen before. Step inside the story, hear the witness, and experience Easter like never before with If the Tree Could Speak, available on Amazon. I encourage you to check it out. If The Tree Could Speak by Tim Tebow available on Amazon or see the link in the show notes. Oh my gosh. We were just talking about this a second ago, and all I could think about was my dad,

my childhood memories are sitting at the table like after sitting still at school all day long and then sitting down and him being like sit down very gently but he was also militant like he was in RTC and all the things he's very militant his four girls and I just imagine him I remember him like holding a ketchup bottle and holding mayo and like acting out the Bible with the condiments on the table and us just being like

oh my gosh rolling our eyes we want to go play and then like I also remember just like him ingraining like different stories from the Bible, knowledge is about God from the Bible. Like him, Paul was a mayo bottle and, you know, like, so I just, that's what I imagine. And I, and I'm thankful for that. I think that definitely changed a trajectory of like my suffering journey because I had this prior knowledge of who God was that allowed me to hold on to something rather than like looking for something I had no concept of. I had something to hold on to. That's great. That's great. I got questions.

No, you can go. I was expressing with Preston earlier about, you have a chapter about God as triune, that God is Trinity, one God who exists in three co-equal persons. And I was saying how if the book's aim wasn't for teens, we would approach this conversation differently, which made me start to think about how do you, how. How do you give people a desire for theology at ages where that's not an expectation, you know? Because I think the expectation is if you're 14, 15, 16, let's have a Bible study that's like neat and fun and all the stuff. And it's like, nah, like we need some depth. And so I guess, I don't know, talk about the need for depth regardless of what age you are. That was my childhood was being like, please don't make me go to a youth group.

I do not want to eat pizza and talk about boys. Like, I just wasn't like that. I hated it. I hated it. I hated it. And so a part of why I was thinking of myself, like someone who was searching for something deeper. I think one way to get teens to approach the concept of God is to lie to them and tell them it's about who they are. Like in the subtitle, it says learning about, you know, God so that we can understand ourselves, which does come with learning about God.

But as you're searching for yourself and as you look up, you realize that this doesn't even actually matter. And so, yeah, I'd say that I've always desired depth. Life happened and further increase my desire for depth. And then I would say, I think when we search for ourselves and we search for like more shallow things, what we find is depth. Like when we're looking for God, we find something much deeper than what we were looking for. Yeah. I talk about the Trinity a lot. Like, you know, because I'm an evangelist, an apologist.

So I'm often talking to people in different religions, faith groups, and a lot of the people don't believe in the trium God of Scripture. What motivated you to talk about things like the Trinity in the youth book? Like what motivated you? Because I don't think I've ever seen somebody tackle the Trinity in a youth book like that. Maybe it's out there. I've never seen it. And so what motivated you to talk about the Trinity?

When we look at the Bible and we look at God's character, we don't get to just pick and choose the parts that we want to talk about. And so what motivated me is conviction, because I don't want to talk about the Trinity either. Like, that was one of the hardest pieces to write was I don't even understand this myself. But also, we can't approach God's love and his kindness and his mercy and not approach his righteousness and his holiness. Like, that's not, that's one side and it's not who God is in his entirety. And so I wanted to represent God in his fullness. And I think that's all, you can't look at the Bible and not see all of it, you know?

And for people that are disinterested in God, a lot of the time is because we won't approach the conversations of the other parts of him, like his wrath and his righteousness. And like those things are worth digging into an understanding. Yeah. One of the conversations I had with my 10-year-old when I first started talking to her about the Trinity is so that she can kind of understand how we were created. Like we were created in the image of God and in his likeness, but we were created in community because God is a community. He never existed alone. The father has always existed with the son. The son has always existed with the Holy Spirit.

And so her starting to grasp that it was big for her, I think, and me and encouraging for me because it shows us just like, no, God created us with purpose. Uh-oh. It just, I'm like, that has to be ugly. Yeah, God created us with purpose. He created us in the community because he's a community, you know? So that's dope. I'm glad you wrote about that.

I feel like this, though. For sure. Because we are inclined to believe that theology isn't practical. You understand? Yeah. That, like, it's only supposed to be something that stays up here when there are so many practical implications to what is up here, right? And so for me, knowing that God is triune always reflects on, okay, I'm made in the image

of a triune God, therefore it makes sense. why it's not good for man to be alone. Therefore, Jackie, stop isolating yourself. You understand? The theology has worked itself down into my Tuesday at 4 p.m. Yeah, that's good. And so, that's it. What?

I don't know the question, but I got nervous because everybody was staring at. Asked the question, man. I don't know anymore. Y'all was supposed to say something else. Just say something. That was good. That was good. We were leaning in.

That was good what you said. Y'all don't got nothing else to say after that. No. I thought she was about to ask a question, babe. No. Okay. I'll ask another question. Okay. So I want to go back to your childhood, you growing up, right? You grew up in a very biblical, like, Bible-centered home.

Because Dr. Tony Evans is what to you? That's what I'm about to go. He's my uncle. Okay. He played my, that was the closest my mom had to a father. Okay. Yeah. So Dr. Tony Evans was your uncle?

My mom's uncle. So my great-uncle. Your great-uncle. But he's grafted as in his, like, grandchildren, so it's complicated. Man. Y'all kids got a lot of-thru with legacy. Y'all kids going to have a lot of pressure. I mean, Kirk Franklin, Dr. Tony Evans.

Priscilla Shire. Priscilla Shire. Goodness, crazy. It's a lot of spiritual giants in your family. I guess my question is, you know, being, like growing up in a home where you are always surrounded around the gospel, all the surround around theological, like, principles and teachings. Do you think, do you think, like, this naturally was birthed out of you because of your upbringing with your teaching? Because what gave you the motivation at 21 years old to teach?

Right. 15, 16 years old. Even before we started the podcast, you said, like, I didn't want to talk about theological things. I didn't even necessarily go to seminary, but I just kind of. I felt like it was in me. And so how much you think this stuff was kind of like implanted in you from when you were younger and all that? I think I would be remiss and totally prideful to say that any of it came from me. I think absolutely it's the legacy that I've walked ahead of or behind or whatever. I think of a scripture, what is it about we're the crown of our, you know I'm talking about.

Oh, Lord. My grandmother just sent it to me. bring it to our mind holy ghost help a lord because we can't help her there's pressure our community is failing you i know i thought you would just take the words out of him now um basically we're the crown of our like grandchildren are the crown of their whatever and their inheritance yes yeah yeah yeah and so i think about the faithfulness of my mom and my dad and those that went before them and how i'm actually just like a reward like of their faithfulness and and so i get to walk in that which is a gift and also there's like there is stewardship involved with like

like, yeah, that's the legacy that they've paved for me. They've paved this way for me. And so I think a lot of it probably did come from the family that I came from. Yeah. Do you guys ever feel, this might be a little off topic, do you guys ever feel pressure to kind of like live up to the spiritual heavyweights that kind of went before you and your family? Like, like to feel like this expectation to teach or to teach or to be.

to live up to a standard because... Yeah. I don't think I feel pressure as much as confusion. Because what God has given us looks different than what has come before us. And so our 20s have been, we just got here and it's like, where are we supposed to be? What are we supposed to do? Because it looks so different than what we've seen. And then I think naturally I probably hold a little bit of...

It's not even pressure for man though. It's this like desire to please God. Like I really want him. to be proud of me because I'm the oldest child and because I came from a family that he's so proud of. Yeah. And now I want to just encourage you, not just you, but you also too, bro, like, you guys as a couple because we know you know who your uncle is. We know who your father-in-law is. But you guys walk in a very, like, creative, eclectic, unique creativity, but also, like, you live out your spiritual lives. And it doesn't seem like you're trying to be your

dad or your uncle and it's very evident that God has uniquely made you guys and also like he was intentionally put you guys together you know what I'm saying because we don't see Uncle Kirk hiking and stuff like that you know I mean or even playing the acoustic guitar but when I see you guys I'm inspired in just another way like in photography you know nature um songwriting you know the like you your voice is beautiful but you don't try to sound like CC Wine is I mean And so, like, you guys are birthed in another generation of creativity and spirituality, but it doesn't, it is, it is, it, and only like you're trying to be like what came before you. So, which is really encouraging, you know what I'm saying?

So, yeah, yeah. I wonder if there's some rebellion in y'all somewhere, you know what I'm saying? Like some, some sanctified rebellion. I don't know. I want to get you back on the podcast. I want to pick his brain, you know what I'm saying, and your brain about, you know, we'll talk about that later. One of your God is is because the devotional is God is truth. God is wise. God is this is God is perfect. And you talk about the perfection of God, which I want you to teach, but you also talk about perfectionism within you. Can you just go in on that real quick? This is why, because I think we have two responses usually to God's self-revelation as perfect, which is we either

cower and fear because we know we can't live up to that standard, even though we attempt to through legalism, or we want away from it and be like, because I can't, I'ma just be me, which is licentious. Like, we just live, like, I'm going to do what I want. You understand what I'm saying? And so I just kind of want you to teach on God as perfect, but also teach on that dynamic of responding to his perfection in a way that still honors him. This is what I'm walking through right now. I think, first of all, his perfection is it makes us complete. And so I think we can all, like, breathe a sigh of relief because, like, he is perfect, and I am not, which is very clear. And so there is some relief in that.

Like, I can, all those things about him are absolutely true and always true because he is perfect. So I think it holds up in a lot of ways all the other attributes of him. I think personally, I've found that, like, what the response to his perfection is, it's a very delicate balance. It's like, I want to be sanctified and I want to be, but also I can't be. And so I can't walk around in shame all the time. Like, what is the balance? And I was reading Ephesians the other day, Ephesians 3, I think, and it talks about

how when we experience his love, we were made complete. And just like, what I've learned is that I don't actually understand the gospel. Like, I've written a whole book on the character of God. and to, and like, if I truly understood the gospel, I would know exactly how to walk in, like, his perfection. You know what I mean? Like, he's paid at all. And that doesn't mean that I get to walk around and sin.

Like, it gives me the invitation to be sanctified and all the things. But I think for my personal struggle is probably shame and, like, the opposite, like, knowing that I'm not perfect and feeling like I need to do all this and this and this to be forgiven. And the gospel is just that Jesus has covered it. And if we've experienced his love, we've been made complete. and like that's it And so I think Yeah

Do you think Because I think I think that's at play a lot of times In our walk with the Lord That might take time to discern Is how much our temperaments Color

Perspectives right And so if you got only I mean Oldest Child energy If you already have that temperament Then you might lean In the direction Of having more shame

Because of not living up to a standard versus August. You know what I'm saying? The baby might lean more into selfishness, pride. And so there's an or like even a, what's the word, entitlement that leads them in the direction of not being the elder brother and the prodigal son, but the young one that's like, hey, let me go eat this pig food.

So their temperament is directing even their interaction with the Lord. Doesn't make sense what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? And so I guess how would you speak to? even sisters where there's this sense where I'm the sister that wants to be right, but I can't be right because only God's righteousness can help me be right. With the sisters, like, he loved me. I'm covered in the blood.

Like those dynamics within even a community of siblings, how have you engaged that? That's hard. You mean in my relationship with my sisters? You can be as vague and abstract as you want to be. Oh, no, I don't mind. I'm thinking about even I'm not I'm just thinking about our temperaments in the clashing and the thing even in how you're raised in the order of the lineup well actually I was talking about my sisters and then I realized I married a baby so he's the youngest I was talking about you okay he's the youngest and I'm the oldest so actually the most that I've grown in understanding of who God is is with like in marriage to him because I've watched his perspective of God and his perfection teach this

I don't actually have anything else. Hold on. Like, I watch how he just so freely approaches the throne of grace. And I'm like taking it. At first I had this righteous judgment of like, you're not going to fix that. You don't want to change or whatever. He's amazing. There's nothing bad about him.

But like I just didn't understand how you could so freely approach the throne of grace because I didn't understand the gospel. And then I think maybe I've challenged him to grow in sanctification. all the things, but what I needed to learn most was how to be, I don't know what the word is, just how to approach the throne of prayer, like how to come to God and fully embrace what he's given me and know that like anything else actually is counterfeit. Like it doesn't even, my offering to him is nothing, you know. So I've learned that in marriage actually. That's good. Yeah. That's amazing how like what we fall in the family kind of gives us a different

perspective of God. Yeah. Because how we interact with our heavenly father kind of informs how we, you know what I'm saying? Because like for me, it's birth order theory. Yeah, yeah. For me, like I was kind of in, I was the in between in my family. I was the youngest, but my brother that's a year older to me is mentally challenged. So he was technically the youngest or whatever.

And so I had to be accountable a lot for him, which I felt like when I came to the Lord, I always had to be a count. I didn't know how to just come freely to the throne of grace. you know what I'm saying because I feel like I always had to give account for something you know what I'm saying

it's exhausting and it's just like you being the oldest you probably feel like you had to always okay Lord I want to tell you I'm gonna come to your throne

I'm gonna tell you this first you know what I'm saying it's like God it's like no just come and I never even thought about that how the youngest can just feel

probably just free yeah because they don't have all out of pressure like the older kids yeah I don't know what I would be called but you were the only one

you just meet myself and I yeah ain't no sharing ain't no, ain't no, nutta dead. Yeah, because when... You want to share? No, seriously. Seriously, true story. I feel like you're going to say something great.

Yeah, I'm going to say, I'm going to tell you. When we first thought dating, like... The Snickers. I wouldn't even call you stingy. It was like the thought of sharing was weird to you. No, no, no, I'm so serious. It was like weird. Babies are like that too.

Because it was like, we were dating and she was eating a snicker. And I was like, give me a piece. And she was like, this is mine. And I was like, I know it's yours. But I want a piece. And she was like, I can buy you one. No, for sure.

And she was like, why are you asking for my snigger? No, it didn't. It didn't compete. Me having all of these siblings, it was just kind of like, because I want a piece. It was just so different. It didn't compute. In my mind, it's like, you got money. Like, get your old snicker, bro.

Like, I just didn't understand. You've grown a whole lot. I've had to. We got four years. We've married a little bit. But I do think there is a selfishness that the Lord is constantly having to work out of me because of how I was raised as a only child. But also, too, I love the sanctification of God, like how God sanctifies us and uses relationships to sanctify us. because even back then, you didn't share,

but you didn't really ask for other people's stuff either. Correct. But it's like now I can't even, I can't even eat a plate without you digging in it now. It's like you just taking. Some of this feels personal. No, no, no, no, no, no. No, it feels like you guys get some off your chest.

No, what I'm saying is God, even though. We are here to talk about. No, what I'm saying, listen, what I'm saying is, what I'm saying is what I'm saying is, what I'm saying is published by being. and age. Hey, listen, follow me. What I'm saying is now, like, now you have the freedom to not only share with others, but to ask for my stuff without accent.

You just take it because you're free now. You know what I'm saying? Like, you grew up the only child, but it's like now you're not the only child anymore. You're married to a person who you take their things all the time. It's so ironic I opened it up to God's peace. I was going to say. It's not been peaceful at all. There's got to be answered to this.

It just feels ironic. that we left there. Because she'll take like half of my shit. Oh. Let it go, brother. Goodness. That's that care.

I'm not you're going to take all my rights. Wow. What do you think could be one of the most misunderstood attributes of God in this book? Is God good? That was the hardest one

right, the hardest one to understand still, and yet he's good. And I think when you hear people who are not interested in Christianity is because God isn't good to them, they don't believe that he's good, when Christians walk away from him is because he didn't do something good. So I think it's a common, a common misunderstanding that leads to unbelief. But the truth that's all over his word is that he's good. And I don't, this is about to get theological because it's a hard, It's a hard topic to approach without it. It's just like... Yeah.

So define God's goodness first. It's his glory. I think about when... I don't remember the exact... I don't remember the verses to anything, but in Exodus when Moses says, show me your glory and God responds, I'll show you my goodness.

Like, that's it. And so when we get glimpses of God's glory, that is his goodness. Yeah, I think some of the wrestle with the goodness of God has to do with the judgment. justice of God, right? So if I'm going through a hard, difficult season, I have, I've have loss, or I have a friend breakup, or I have a boy don't like me, he called me ugly, I don't know, like, because I didn't pop the pimple the right day, I didn't put the star on it, so it didn't

suck it. I don't know. Like, when people go through hard situations, then it reflects back on the nature of God because it feels like, if God is good, why is all this bad happening, you know? And I think sometimes we don't do the greatest job of being with people in that. Sometimes we may try to preach people out of grief or lament or confusion, especially young folk. Because I think there's an anxiety and a fear that if I don't preach you out of it, I don't know what's going to happen to you. You know what I'm saying? And so I guess how, let's say we're talking to a parent who has a child who is 16, 17, going through a very hard season

and they are, they're wrestling with the goodness of God. How does the parent, parent, and just give the wisdom that you got, how does the parent parent in such a way where they also reflect his goodness in the person that's wrestling with the goodness? Or you could just talk about something that you,

like your parents have kind of ministered to you. That's a great, that's a great recalibration. I just thought about the fact that like when you look at Jesus's life and you look at him approach people with pain, He never was like yelling in their face, I'm good. Like he's never like, that's not his concern. Not saying, like, because it's true.

Like he doesn't, that's not his concern in that moment. Instead, he asks if you want to be healed or he cries with you. And so I think that approach of that corny saying, what would Jesus do or whatever, like is actually very helpful for when you're navigating grief and hard things with other people. And then I think of my dad. and then like I mean I just went through like some bouts of serious depression and yeah after my mom died just like hopelessness and it scared the mess out of my dad because he was like this is not the girl that I raised I don't know what's happening

and I think once he got over his fear he did such an incredible job at just being there so if I'm in my room with my door closed he's just standing outside the door praying for me singing whatever he needs to do and releasing me back to him So just like, I think for parents, the greatest thing my parents said is just trust me with him. Like, trust me with God. Wow. That's beautiful. But surrendering your child is I'm more God's child than I am his. And then I think the second thing is just like sticking it out.

Like he just stayed present. He didn't. Eventually he stopped preaching at me and telling me that God was good. And he just stuck around because that was all I could take. And now when I think about God in my pain, I see my dad standing outside my door as I'm in the bed crying and whatever. Wow. That's really beautiful.

I wish I had saved parents. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. Because it reminds you a scripture with Jesus acts. No, it's fine. All days work together. Jesus acts, man, like, why do you call me good when only God is good? Ultimately, he's trying to reveal to the man that he is God.

But God is good. Like, we look at certain situations and we say, this is bad. But it's like, I love the picture that you painted about your dad sitting outside the door. because if God is good, even if my situation is bad, the power of presence is still good for me. Right. And so like God being there, you know what I'm saying? In the midst of our circumstances is evidence of his goodness for us, you know, his presence. And so in the last episode, we were talking about how, you know, the storm came and Jesus was on a boat.

And one of the first thing they wanted to do was just challenged the goodness of God. It was like, you don't care that we're about to die. And he's like, no, I care because I'm here. Right. The evidence of me caring is my presence. And so I think a lot of times we just lose sight of that. And I only think you've got to be a teenager lose sight of that. As I'm in my 30s and I lose sight of that all the time.

You're in the 30s. You try to show me because you eat all my food. Because you're about to be. No, I'm not. I actually. You let it go? I don't live from offense. I just, I know you're about to be for.

so I forgot that she was in your third. Yeah, I'm getting old, man. I'm getting old. You have a chapter, because what was coming to my heart while y'all were talking was fear. This is distinct from what we were talking about. Thinking about teens, young adults in college, in school, or whatever, who walk in a level of anxiety,

even when it comes to being missional, when it comes to doing scary things, when it comes to jumping off the cliff, and not knowing what to do. You know what I'm saying? And I'm thinking about even social media and how it can make being faithful out loud, scarier, because you just don't know how people will respond,

what people will say, what people will think. And one of the characters of God that you put forward is that God is our protector. And you have Isaiah 4110 that says, so do not fear, for I am with you, do not be dismayed, for I'm your God. I will strengthen you and help you. I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.

How has knowing God is a protector helped you do scary things? So like God, I'm like, when I'm doing hard stuff, the only thing, the only reason I'm doing is because I know that I have his righteous hand to fall back on. Like, otherwise, I'm not doing that. Like, my husband doesn't hold, he can hold. But, like, there are things that are scary enough to where it's like, oh, you're not going to get me through this. Like, people aren't going to get me through my.

vices aren't going to get me through. And then, like, looking back and seeing his faithfulness as I approached fear. Like, I haven't lived a long time, but I have a decent enough track record with God to know that he's going to show up when he calls me to things. The power of remembering. You sound like David and Goliath. This is why, because when I taught a passion about hope, I talked about how, you know, one thing that hinders our imagination is not.

not being able to remember, not being able to reflect on our history with God. And I made the comment how there might be people in this space who feel like I don't have a significant history with God to even have that amount of courage or confidence needed to approach this or that giant or this giant. And how with David, when it came down to David and Goliath, he went to Saul, the king. And it's like, now, I'll fight him. You know what I'm saying? And Saul is looking at him like, you're a ruddy boy.

Like, I don't understand why you got all that confidence. because in his mind he knows this isn't the David who's fault Absalom, this isn't the David that's fault Philistines, this isn't the David who will eventually, like this is not that David yet, he's a shepherd boy. But what David appeals to is that God, the Lord of hosts who delivered me from the paw of the lion and from the paw of the bear will deliver me from the hand of this Philistine,

meaning he only had two memories that he appealed to for his confidence. And so it doesn't matter how young you are. you don't actually need that much to appeal to when you have the scriptures. And so I think if you're a person who you only been saved a year, okay, did he save you? Therefore, he's faithful. You know what I'm saying? You might have been saved a week.

That is that muster see that we need. Cast all your anxiety on him because it cares for you. All right, you got one text, bad. Like, go and do what you got to do. That's good. That's real good. Because I think that is a picture of that muster see. Like, you know what I'm saying?

And like they, you know, Jesus or the disciples, if you have faith in the size of a muster see, you can say to this mountain move and it will move. We don't need much. All we need to do is remember the goodness of God and what he brought me from. And I think about the beauty of your story. I mean, the Lord brought you through something very tragic at a early age and how, like, his keeping power will sustain you for as long as you let it. You know what I'm saying?

And so I think that's just really, really dope, really, really dope. I'm curious to know how knowing the character of God, God is this, God, is that, how that's affected your prayer life? I love praying, primarily because what I realized from like stepping into adulthood is most people don't know how to pray or like don't know. They don't be praying, exactly. And then when they do, they don't come to the throne of grace with like an excitement and a joy and hope about who he is.

Like, if God is telling the truth, I know that I can come to his throne and pray for this thing. It doesn't mean that it's going to end up how I want it to, but if God is hope and light and all these things, I can pray for these things because I know that they're real. So, like, I think I've also seen God respond to my bold prayers. And I think that builds faith, too, of, like, why wouldn't I come to God who's a truth teller, a protector, lover of my soul? Like, all of these things are true about him, which makes sense.

coming to him kind of my only option because I know that I can't bring my full self to humans. I mean I can't but I'm going to get rejected I won't be understood people will judge me whatever and God sees

like his love has made me complete and so I can come to him and does that answer? This is going to sound like a very duh question but I think it's legitimate because even with Eden sometimes she struggles with praying because she's comparing how she prays to how we pray

and I'm thinking of the 14, 15 16 year old who's saying, I actually don't know how to pray. Give me advice. Yeah. How do I do that? I think the start is to build friendship with God and with Christ. So knowing his character, like, creates relational equity. Like, I know who he is.

We've become a little bit of friends. I know how to talk. I mean, I don't know how to talk to him, but I would talk to him like I would talk to a friend. And then practical things, like, I think there's, in a day and age where it's like, we're kind of turning our faces to like more traditional things. I think it is really, really helpful to have a space that you pray, not because you can't pray throughout the day, but there's something really, I don't know, safe and like relational about,

like, you meet up with a friend. You plan to meet up with a friend somewhere. And so I've loved having a space where I pray. I like writing prayers down. And they're less of like prayers and more just like conversations, questions, concerns. Like I can just write these down on an index cards, put them on the wall. And I have all this relational equity in this room, like in this closet or whatever that I can come back to and remember when things are hard. I can come, you know, like I think there's something really powerful still

about like meeting with God in a particular place. And like you said, he uses a mustard seed. Like just setting up the room invites him into into that space, you know. You got music playing? No, not I do if I'm really distracted, but a lot of times I actually feel convicted to sit in silence. Okay. And I think there's tons of... You're like a little monk. No. A little silence and solitude.

Okay. I think there's... Do you write songs, too? I don't enjoy it as much right now. I do when I'm really in pain. I write the process, yeah. So your songs, like, you're like a poet. Yeah, they're sad like David.

We poets write a lot of pain. Yeah. Yeah, okay. A little melancholic. Yeah. I'm trying to phrase my question in my head. Why is it like, okay, so for a teenager, I'm thinking about teenagers or I think about my 10-year-old who's getting older. Sometimes she comes home with relational issues, which everybody does.

You know, sometimes. You know. They didn't sit next to me on the bus. Yeah. And how we... I know that's the worst thing that happened to you all the. The reality is the more you grow older, just so. you're just going to be wounded by people.

You know, how do you think, especially, like, as we're growing up in our teenage years, understanding the character of God helps us have better relationships with the people around us. Okay. That was good. That is good. I thought you were going to ask something else. I was playing my other answer. And think about your 10-year-old self, your 15-year-old self.

I think understanding the death. of his grace and mercy for me helps me to walk in that same grace and mercy and love with other people. Because when I look at other humans, because I know God's perfection and then I look at myself and I know that I am not, I'm able to like, I don't know,

see myself in other people and all of a sudden it's like, oh, they're just not God. Like, they can't give me what he can give me. And so learning that at a young age, I think is really, important because you have a lot of adults running around looking for godlike attributes in humans. And so, yeah, I think knowing God also helps us to love people better,

helps us to walk with people. But I think practically speaking, all I could think is like a lot of times our relational issues are because we have a problem with somebody else. And when we realize that we also are the problem, because we understand that God is perfect and we are not, I think that's really helpful for navigating relationships. And I think what's helpful about what you're saying is I think every human being has to get this in their system, which is that a theology of God, God as triune, God as omnipotent, God as holy, God is great, God as true, should illuminate your own, I'm going to use a big word, finitude, that you are human, therefore weak, therefore frail, therefore limited, therefore dependent. And it's like, in relationships, I need him.

In prayer, I need him. In suffering, I need him. And that's what I hear you saying constantly. With every answer, it's this kind of like, yeah, I mean, they're not God. I need him. They're not this. And I think that's the beauty of working through a book like this is that it not only gives you information about God, but information about yourself that you ain't.

him and therefore you need him. And it's in that space that we become like him. It's the dependence that trains us to actually reflect Christ. Absolutely. Because I'm encouraged by listening to you for probably a reason that you don't even realize. Because I remember when I was, when I was, I guess I said when I was 19 and I ain't really start walking with the Lord until I was 20. But when people ask me questions, I gave very simple kind of like, duh, answers. And that's because my relationship with God, it wasn't just, I didn't have, like, so much, you know, theological terms. It was just kind of like, God, in this last year, he's shown himself to me. And when you think about the scriptures, when you think about how God wants us to be like children,

a lot of times when you ask people things about God, sometimes they give you these, the most theological answer. And sometimes, of course, like, if you ask Dr. Tony Evans, this is going to be colored with life and life lived. But with you, it's kind of like, God has shown himself to me. I don't really have, you know what I'm saying? In my, I'm saying, at the woman at the well. It's like, she didn't go back and tell people a whole bunch of stuff.

She was just like, yo, this man just told me everything that I just knew. I believed them. Go see for yourself. And so there is a beautiful faith that I feel like you display that's precious to the Lord. Even in your answers, it just reminds me like, man, like, It reminds us to go back to the basics. And I think the average Christian struggles with that. And God is like, y'all are all children.

You just forget that you a child, you know. That you've grown. You think you've grown. And so it's beautiful here. You talk and talk about the Lord. Yeah, that's a part of why I wanted to write it was. And actually how I feel most attacked by the enemy here, like this feeling of like, what?

am I doing talking about this or wanting to complicate the gospel for the sake of sounding smart or making sure I'm saying all the right things and it's like there's beauty in like understanding theology and there's also real beauty in the simplicity of God. Although he is a mystery, he's very approachable and understandable and I think I want girls to know that like you can build relationship with him now. That's good. That's good. Because it's I think the simplicity of it is it makes the it makes intimacy and theology accessible so that we would know him you know what I'm saying so that we would love him and even when I was reading the chapter about God as triune because I wanted to see how you navigated that it's so simple which tells me there's a degree

of clarity you have on the subject you know what I'm saying like I tell people I'm like if you can't explain something plainly, it might be a sign that you don't actually understand it. The more I understand something, the more simple I become. And so I just, I don't know, it feels weird to say I'm proud of you. Like, you don't even know me like that. It's just, I don't know, this is special and this is encouraging because I have something to give my daughters so that they can know the Lord. I can't say finitude with them, you know what I'm saying?

I can't say justification. I can say it, but it's like, nah, I can be like, hey, you. Yeah, you go. I'm proud of you too because I think we need resources like this to introduce lofty ideas. Because these lofty ideas, these teenagers and young people need to be impacted by it as well. That's one of the things I said I wanted to do in my first evangelism book. I thought about everybody who think that they can't do it. I didn't want to think about the people who read 18 evangelism books in the past.

It's like, I don't want to, you know what I'm saying? If y'all read it, God bless you. But I think this book kind of does the same thing. I think it makes God attainable in a beautiful way. So good job. God is 60 days of learning who God is to understand who we are. The link is in the show notes. Honestly, truthfully, I don't care of you 42.

You could buy this for yourself. You could be 15.11 years old. It don't matter. We don't care if you 1511. I'm not even going to say, buy it for your baby, buy it for it. Just buy it. You understand? Because we all need to know who God is.

Thank you so much for your encouragement. Thank you, Mr. Franklin. for letting us borrow her for 60 minutes. We appreciate your care and your husbandry. Peace, y'all. Bye. With the Perrys is produced by The Perrys, with support from Amanda Reed and Channing McBride,

video recording and audio production by Matthew Baxter and Xavier Fairley, edited by the team at Tread Libly. Artwork by Hobb. Thank you for listening. Now go with God.