With The Perrys - We Are All Just Jars of Clay

Episode Date: May 13, 2024

Can we be honest? This episode almost didn't happen because The Perrys found themselves in a funk when it was time to record. Jackie admits she’s recently felt as though she’s been holding back the hand of depression. Preston reflects on spiritual opposition he’s felt during this busy season with projects and upcoming plans. So, what does it look like to fight back against anger, irritation, or sadness? It looks like leaning into spiritual disciplines – to the degree you have the strength to do them – and finding community with one another, as they model in today’s episode.   This Episode of With The Perrys Sponsored by: https://liberty.edu/Perry — Get your application fee WAIVED when you start your future with Liberty University today!   Subscribe to the Perrys' newsletter: https://withtheperrys.myflodesk.com/zhfus4jx1s Join Preston's discipleship community for men: https://www.patreon.com/PrestonPerry/membership To support the work of the Perrys, donate via PayPal: https://paypal.me/withtheperrys Shop BOLD Apparel: boldapparel.shop Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, St. Nantes. What's up with y'all? How art thou? How art thou? How are you doing bad? I'm all right. It's been a lot. It has.

I feel like I haven't seen you all morning. I've seen you early in there you left and now you just came back. I was only gone an hour. It felt like an eternity. Wow. Okay. That's fine. So we can jump straight into it.

We, so. One I just want to say. that our language right now, even the way we're talking, is very indicative of the episode that we're about to do because we sound like we got beat up. We sound like we wore out. We sound like we, we ain't trying to muster up, some energy that we don't have.

We're very much showing up how we feel. It's true. Which is, that was the point. Because so some context. We knew that we had to shoot today. This week has been weaking. And Preston walked in the room this morning after taking the dog out three times during the night. No, no, no.

It wasn't this. Well, we clarified this morning. I was about to. Okay, okay, okay. It was like two or three this morning. And all he says is cancel the podcast. And it goes in the bathroom. Like, what?

Like, he didn't even make it like a question or anything. And what I thought was, instead of canceling the podcast to accommodate the different difficulties of our week, why don't we actually just talk about that so that we don't have to be fake? You know what I'm saying? Because it can be a lot to try to get over the hump and act like something that you're not. You want to know what's hilarious is when I got into bed and I saw you were kind of like semi-woke because August was crying. our dog kept crying the whole night, barking the whole night, which he doesn't do. And when I came back in,

I saw that she will kind of send my woke. And so I used the opportunity to let her know, I don't want to do this podcast tomorrow. And you kind of rolled over and you said, why? No, I said, well, we have to shoot because we need to record ads. As for the podcast, why don't you? Because to me, that was a non-negotiable.

Like, we have to do that. I was like, I ain't slept. Yesterday was rough on us. And I'm angry. Yeah, you did say that. So let's talk about it. So yesterday we did three episodes. And before the episodes, I was upstairs crying because I think the last week,

it felt like I was trying to hold back the hand of the depression. And I was telling Preston how, like, he knows this about me. Like, my whole life, I used to be a very moody person. And, like, waves of irritation or melancholy would come over me randomly and untriggered. And I would say that it was irritation. Like, I'm just irritated. But now I know that irritation is really just an expression of anger. I would just be angry out of nowhere. And so Sunday after church, somebody came over. And we had a nice time. We were talking about the Lord, talking about Jesus, doing all the things.

I was fine. And then as soon as the person walked out of the door, I became angry. And it was just like a cloud. And I didn't, I think when I get in that space, it's two options. I can lean into it or I can fight it. But I didn't feel like fighting it. Like I just was like, hey, I'm mad. And it just is what it is.

And then it felt like the best way I could describe it, it feels like if you descend into the darkness, then it feels safe. I can't explain what I mean. If you descend in, because into the darkness, you don't feel, you're numb, you don't have to think,

you don't have the process. And then there's the religious theological ideas in my mind, like rejoice in all circumstances, work out your salvation, with fear and trembling. So I have all of these imperatives in my mind that feel like, Jackie, you're supposed to work and fight to get out of this, which made me not want to fight even more.

Yeah. Because it's like I don't feel like sometimes, sometimes I just want to be delivered without working for it. Oh, wow. And that's how I felt. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, yeah, that's really honest and real.

It's real because I, you know, I haven't had those moments as much. Like when, when I get in those, those things. things actually like happen for me like something happens that allow me to get in that space but I can relate to uh the idea of not wanting to work to get out of the space and I and I can also can relate to the idea of wanting to remain there because it feels comfortable it feels it feels um you know like you've been fighting all week or various things and I don't want to keep fighting and try to get out of you know what I mean and so like but for me as your husband, one of the things that that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that

responsibility. Well, one, I do have a responsibility to care for you. And so, a lot of times when people deal with depression, I think they don't often talk about the spouses of the person who's also carrying their weight, you know, um, because it's a weight that I'm carrying it because I know that you're carrying it. Um, and then, you know, oftentimes, I know this podcast is it about spiritual. Um, you know, um, because, um, um, spiritual warfare, but I do think the enemy does capitalize off of opportunities. Yeah. Right. If I'm trying to carry away for you, that's a, yeah, I'm a vulnerable. Yeah. Right. Right. To the, to the, to the schemes and the attacks of the enemies. And so for me, that's exactly what happened yesterday. You know, you were dealing with what you were dealing with.

We did some podcasts. It was some really good podcast yesterday. Can I finish the idea real quick? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I think I, I, I think, I, used to think that fighting was so i think fighting back looks how do i say it doesn't look like fighting but it is meaning sometimes the way you fight things is just leaning into the the spiritual disciplines that you always do to the degree that you have strength to do it right that's good and so i know that there's prayer i know that there is reading the the word, I know that there's people. And so what I did know to do is like, Lord, you're going to have to give me up out of this.

Like, you're going to have to help me. You know what I'm saying? But also I just kept reading 2 Corinthians 4 where it talks about treasures. We have this treasure in jars of clay to show that the surpassing power belongs to God and not to us. Because I think I'm in a position of a leader where people see the power a lot, right? They see the preaching. They see the coming against devils and demons. They see the sermons.

They see the articulation of gospel truth. They see the victory. Yeah. But that those moments are actually the jars of clay being used by a great guy. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So like, no, like this is me, this is me experience and what it means to be a broken vessel. Yeah.

You know, and I think, I think God in his kindness sometimes allows those moments to keep us low. so that we remember like, no, you're not, you're not actually strong. You're not actually that great. Like, it really is me. So I ended up having to read this book the morning of our shoot to prepare for one of our podcast conversations. And in the book, the person was talking about suicidal ideation and some of the thought processes they were going through when they wanted to give up.

And it felt like, it felt like when I had to. had read second corinthians four i felt i felt a little more victorious a little more joyful i didn't talk to you you don't pray for me pressing and when it got olive oil out the kitchen put it on my forehead it was like a whole thing i'm gonna cover you praise god it was a whole thing so i felt like okay cool you're gonna get this crystal war victory is my victory is my victory today is my night so i open up that book and the girl was talking about how she wanted to kill herself and i resonated with it. Wow. Not that I felt suicidal, but I resonated with how rational suicide can be when you don't want to feel anymore. You get what I'm saying? That's good. And so it felt like it felt like all of the despair that I was

fighting back like was drawing me. And so you came in the room and I was like, yeah, I feel like this book just triggered me. And I did want to tell you. So that's the thing. That's a part of the fight is that I wanted to lean into that. But we have to shoot these stupid podcast episodes. And it's like, I'm not going to be able to show up for these people and be present in an authentic, sincere, godly way if I don't invite somebody into this. You know what I'm saying? So I talk to you about it. I text some people. And I don't even remember what happened. I think I cried. I think that's when you pray for me. That's when I, that's when I'm not. Yeah, I pray for you.

After I read. Prior, but when I heard you read that, I said, okay, let me go now and say to get this oil. You're going, you're going to. No, what's funny is Preston said he was sitting in a chair and I was in the bed with like tears and stuff like that. And you were like, what did you say? You said your vision focused because you looked under the bed and I have a book that said

demons. Yeah. It was crazy. It was crazy. I'm not even trying to be spiritually like super deep. she told me that and when she told me that I was like this is an attack of the enemy

and then as soon as she told me that my eyes immediately went down and the first thing I read was demons and then she has this book about about demons by Michael Heiser by Michael Heiser and I felt like the Lord was like

pray pray for her this is a spiritual attack so I said okay I'm about to go get this oil I'll get this chrysco oil that I just brought from my chicken wick Chrisill is crazy I don't know what got to oil It was olive oil.

What's crazy is if the Lord used you to lift that depression, because I still feel it in the corner of my mind. But if he used you to get me victory, but then I end up with some pimples, I'm not going to know how to feel because you don't put lard on my friend. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. And so, yeah, I mean, I really think that the enemy be attacking people who are used

by the Lord with depression. I think the enemy wants to create like a sense of hopelessness, a sense of, you know, not being able to see, you know, because it's not, it's not, it's not as if the truths wasn't there. And the podcast that we recorded yesterday with Brenna, it's going to be a really great podcast. I don't know if it's going to be out before this one, but she talked about that. She talked about her feeling of despair, which was ironic that we were about to enter into a conversation like that with her. Exactly.

Right. And so I just thought it was all ironic. And so I just felt led by the Lord to pray. But yeah, depression is a real thing. And I think that one good thing for people to know, you know, not just for pastors, not just for small group leaders, but for anybody, you know, you listening to your everyday podcast by somebody who's given spiritual truth. No, like, just don't enjoy them every week.

Pray for them, you know. Like really go to war for them. because it's a cause. Yeah. It's a cause. When you just, when you just out there on social media trying to be an influence and you ain't doing nothing for the kingdom of God,

it's, that's one thing. Yeah. But when you out here trying to teach people about the holy God of Scripture and how to be holy and righteous, there are, are going to be attacks on the body of Christ and people who are really out there with this treasure called the gospel. And so, yeah, man, like for, for not only, not only did that,

I don't think what you were going through like war me out. Of course, as your husband, it made me concerned because it came out of nowhere. But not only that, you know, I was dealing with my own set of things that I've been dealing with, you know, the last couple of weeks. And then, you know, right after the last podcast or whatever,

you got to shoot a podcast with some other people. And so I left with, you know, my friends. And then you tell me that you need to go to the, well, you have in stomach pain. and you're on the couch crying and so I come back, you're on the couch right after the podcast, literally in tears,

and I'm thinking that your appendix about the bus or something like that because my wife does not cry overpaying. No. That's not a thing for you. So I knew, when I saw tears, I knew that you were in pain, so I rushed you to the hospital.

We get there an hour later because it's rush out with traffic. And yeah, you said my mama meds and kicked in. Can we leave? I said, oh my gosh. So, so. Listen. So wait.

Listen, I've been fighting back to demons and devils. I've been fighting back to pressure. We did these three episodes. I mean, I feel like I'm going through later. So here's the thing. I'm not feeling in this lobby. So here's the thing. Here's the thing.

I roll past five hugs. Because I said, okay, I'm going to just endure this traffic because I want my wife to go to a good hospital. So we would out far. You want me to go to Grady. No, no Grady. We went far. When we get there, that hospital looked like accounting. I don't know why I looked like prison. I said, why does this hospital look like this? Yeah. It was that girl in the corner. She was, I said, this shit manifested. It was a girl. It was a girl literally puking everywhere and walking around doing it. If y'all don't get this girl some drama me. I looked at, I said, girl, if you don't get in the corner somewhere, like, why is you puking and walking around everywhere?

But then I saw all the people. And so Jackie was like, Preston, she, she was, I had it in a little wheelchair. I had Jackie in a little wheelchair. Right. Jackie said, Jackie said, husband, can we go? Please. Please. It's okay.

And I said, no, Jackie, I said, I know your mama meds and kicked in because a mom gave her some like some real strong pain medicine that she had from, you know, from the doctor. You know, black people be doing it. You're not supposed to do that. We're not supposed to do it. But black people be sharing each other. strip your medicine all the time. I said, was that crack?

Was it heroin? Jackie said, Mama, was that heroin? Because the way I went from crying to just like looking at my face in the mirror was crazy. Yeah, I did. And then I said, Jackie, I don't want your pain to come back, you know, later on. We can just endure it. She said, is it worth it?

She pointed to the, she pointed to all the line and the whole line in the hospital. She said, is it worth it? Is it worth it? Then I said, okay. I said, I thought about it. about it, I said, just as long as you go to the hospital tomorrow or whatever, at the podcast, she said, she said, she will. So we got in the car, she said, let's go get something to eat. I said, oh, my gosh. And so then when I get home, on top of that, I'm dealing with all of this

stuff. And December doesn't want to go to sleep. And. But even before that, before, so, yeah, that tells you yesterday was hell. It was just a lot. But even before yesterday, you had said that there had been just this desire for you to be angry. Yeah, it was just, like I just felt extreme ways of anger. And to the point with like, so I used to fight a lot. Right. And people be like, why people like, you know, in the inner city hood or whatever fight? And I do think there's a lot of angry people.

And I know it's angry people everywhere. I'm just talking about the context that I came from. Right. I didn't grow up with, you know, ducks in my yard. I grew up, right? On a block. And so. Ducks is crazy.

Yeah, yeah. And so, like, fighting, you know, was a way to get anger out. Like, you felt, even if you got beat up, like, in like. I think sex is that way, too. Yeah. And so, like, there was just, there was just moments of just me wanting to just punch a wall. Or just fight. I don't know.

I was like, let me just go find somebody. let me go get one of my cousins to fight to get this out. And I was like, no, this is actually demonic. Why? Because it was, you know, the Bible tells us we can be angry. Right. But to sin not. But, you know, I wanted to, I didn't have a deep desire to go out of them sin, but I wanted to harm other people.

And it was just like, this is, this is random. And I'm not a violent guy anymore. I'm a pretty piece of guy. I'm a whole father. I got like, I have children. I don't even have multiple. Multiple, right? And so like, why do I feel this?

And so I begin to meditate and pray about it. And it was crazy, like, because one thing that I feel like the enemy does is when you, I don't feel like we conquer all sin on this side of heaven. But the past seasons was lust. I really feel like I've surrendered that to Jesus. I really feel like porn is not like a struggle for me. me at this moment, you know. And so it's like, man, now that you can't attack me with that, you're attacking me with

this anger that I haven't had in years. And I thought about why. And I was like, man, it's a lot going on that God is trying to get glory from the podcast to where it's about to come up. I'm trying to promote a book. And I'm trying to be, you know, good at stewarding that. You know, I'm trying to father my children better and to be a better shepherd and a better leader to them and trying to dedicate myself to that more. And so it was so much I feel like the

enemy was trying to disrupt. And when I thought about it, I was like, man, I'm literally like not even thinking about the things that God has entrusted me with at this moment. And a lot of times, I think, these temptations to be sinful or to engage in certain sins, it's just a way to distract you from what the Lord has you to do. But it also, he wants to affect my emotions and my affections, right? You were telling me the other day, I think when I shared with you, you said you felt like the Lord, well, no, we was actually in church. And doing praise and worship, you put your hand over my heart. And you said, I felt like the Lord.

Wait, this sounds so spiritual. Yeah, because it was. But it felt like I was supposed to pray for your heart. Yeah, and you pray for my heart. And then afterwards, you said, I felt the Lord telling me, to pray for your heart that your heart will remain soft. And you was like, because our daughter Sage got her softness in the way she loves from you. And God wants to use your boldness and your strength and your meekness in a particular way.

He wants to use it with your love for people. And my ministry particularly is rooted around my love for people. Right? My evangelism is rooted around my love for people. the way I do life is rooted around like that's you know in a lot of ways somebody told me you know pressing your meekness is your superpower and I feel like that's what the enemy has been trying to attack particularly yeah in this season you know especially with this book coming out it's like oh you trying to tell people to love people

I'm going to make it I'm trying to make you not love people so when Jesus was tempted by Satan in the wilderness it was an external temptation right because he could not tempt Jesus from within because Jesus did not have a sinful nature. So he could only put external objective things before him. And obviously Jesus is like, no, I love God. I think our temptations obviously are external and internal. Yeah. And Jesus, like the devil could not tempt Jesus.

Let me say this. Jesus also said he was like, Satan has no hold on me. Right. Like there, there was nothing in Jesus that really Satan could. access because he's God. Right. Like he's the God man. But with you, you're a sinful person who's been redeemed and given a new nature.

And I put all that theology out there to say, Satan can only tempt you to do something that's already in you. So what is it that Jesus, God, the Father might also be trying to expose and allowing you to experience anger the way you have? That's such a good question. Sorry, it took me a long time to get there, but I had to. No, it's all good. It's all good.

I actually told, the first time I told you that I was dealing with anger is after I came back from Lubbock, Texas. I was out there ministry in Lubbock. What do you say? Because it was like, man, how did I get to Lubbock, Texas? Why do you have to say it that way? Lubbock. I went to Lubbock. Yeah.

And that morning, that Saturday morning when I had to go to this campus ministry to teach evangelism out in Texas, is when I first felt the anger. And it was an interview about my book had to teach these young, 300 young evangelist ministry students how to evangelize in the context. And I woke up that morning feeling angry. And so I took it to the Lord

and I really had to pray, one, because I needed his help. I said, I can't go to this campus feeling the way I felt. And I felt like, and also I was tempted with lust that day. It was really like, it's... Tell the story. This might be TMI. But I woke up...

I think people need to know the kind of warfare that be going on. Okay. Yeah, I woke up that morning and the wall sounded this thing because the people next to me was having... Intercourse. No, violent sex. It was like, like, aggressive and cursing. And I'm like, this is just crazy. I'm just hearing the smacking of pelvis.

And I'm like, one, I've got to go menace to these people. and I'm hearing like this loud. And you said that was happening while you were trying to pray. And as soon as I tried to pray, that started happening. So I was like, man, Lord. And then I'm dealing with anger at the same time. That's a lot. And so, you know, I left the room when in the lobby,

began to pray for an hour. And I just kind of felt like the Lord was saying, you know, like lean into me. Like trust, trust, trust me. And the Lord really used me out there. When I got back that Sunday morning, we was at church in the past, I was talking about the ringing out your heart and this is to answer your question.

I do think that the Lord gives us seasons of victory when it comes to sin. And so, you know, I did have a season of victory when it came to pornography, which I'm grateful that sometimes when you're stuck watching porn and when you're stuck doing the particular sin, you feel like I'm never going to conquer this.

And it's like now, you know, sin isn't, that sin isn't, as hard for me as it was in the last season. But the Lord did kind of show me that, man, I allow you to go through certain things because one thing we got to understand, we can't blame the enemy for everything. For sure. It wasn't the enemy because God allows things to happen for his glory. And so God can use evil, right, to draw us closer. And so what the Lord did with me in that moment is he showed me is that, man, even though you haven't watched porn and going on three years, there are still some remnants of sin in your heart that I want, I want you to run. I want you to

ring out, right? I want you to, I want you to ring out. And that's what I had, because a lot of times we can be doing good. And the Lord is like, I don't even want a trail of the passing that you used to deal with. I want, I want to sanctify you so the enemy won't, don't even have nothing to work with. That's good. And right. And so that's the reason why sanctification is a process. And sometimes it can feel exhausting. It's like, Lord, I don't watch porn anymore. I don't, I'm faithful to my wife. You know what? I'm doing. all, you know what I'm saying? It's like, no, like, I want to, I want to make sure you're good. You know what I mean? I want to make sure you remain in me. I want to make sure that the enemy

doesn't have any foothole over you. Yeah. And so that's kind of what it felt like. And so I think to answer your question, I think God wants us to continually to come to him on this side of heaven. You know what I mean? Like to trust him, to submit, you know, our struggles and our fears and the things that will even want to tempt us to say, I think he wants to continue, you know, for us to continue to come to him and submit those things to him so we won't fall back into the same schemes.

Yeah. Of the evil one. Yeah, I feel like, sanctification is both passive and active. Yeah, yeah. It's passive in that it is God working in us, right? It's active in that we still have to lean into his work and work alongside him to do, you know,

the process or the work of sanctification. Right? So we don't sit back and say, all right, God, make me holy. Like, no, he is making you holy. But you also have to appropriate the power and the gifts and the spiritual disciplines he's provided so as to like grow in holiness. But I say that to say, I think, I wonder if sometimes we lean too much in either direction where somebody becomes lazy in their sanctification where their growth is actually stunted. And so you've been in Jesus for 15 years, but you still move like you've been in Jesus for two. right? Or you lean to the other side where you put so much energy into working for and trying and attempting that you lean in like you end up thinking that it's your power alone that's sanctifying you. And I feel like it's moments like these where I feel I feel slapped back into the middle where it is both God I have to lean into you. Like that's what he means in John 15 where he's like I am the vine. You are the branches.

Yeah. Apart from me, you can do nothing. You can do nothing, right? So that feels, it's both passive. I'm in him. So it's his power. It's his strength. It's his his hisness that I'm able to do anything.

But it's also I'm told to abide. Yeah. So even though I am in him, I still have to act. abiding. And so you know what I'm saying? No, it does. It makes a lot of sense. The tension of being and working all at the same time. And I'm kind of at this place where it's like, all right, Lord. Like, you over here to talk about rejoice in all circumstances.

Yeah. You over here talking about, like, you understand what I'm saying? No, I definitely. When a dark cloud is over your head and death feels easier than living, you want, me to rejoice in that circumstance. At that point, I can't do it. Yeah. So when you say apart from me, you can do nothing, I believe you.

Yeah. Yeah. I believe you. Yeah, that's good. Because you have to give me, you have to give me your joy, your strength, your perspective, your view, like, you have to do that work for me to even obey your work. Yeah, that's good. For me, you know, the meditation on the fact that.

that God is with me has helped me, right? Because I think a lot of times we go through things. And, you know, also too, like, I'm the first to admit that when I felt like I've conquered something and then it pops back up, you know, I get depressed because I'm like, man, I thought I was over this, right? And so when I felt tempted or whatever with lust,

it was like, Lord, I mean, you know, and God was like, mine, that's pride, right? You know, apart from me, you can do nothing, right? But he also wants to remind us, no, you still need me in this area. Yeah. Right. And so in those moments when I'm reminded, I shouldn't be tempted to be depressed as if, you know,

I'm doing anything on my own strength anyways, but I should rejoice in the fact that even though I'm going through a trial that God is still with me. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And so like when I think about when Jesus was in the boat and the storm came and the disciples, they're mad that they see waves, right? They're mad when they see trouble. And they're upset with Jesus that he's in a boat sleeping, right?

Out. Right? They're mad. And what they should have meditated on, the fact is that even though they see a problem, even though they're going to a trial, they should. should meditate on the fact known that God is actually with me. Come on. He's here. Yeah.

Like, right? Because Jesus could have been in another boat. Yeah. Or Jesus could have been at home in his bed. Yeah. But even if he was asleep. Yeah. He's with us.

He's with us. Right. And so that's the reason. Tabernacle. Right. Tabernacle, right. The power of his presence in the midst of a trial, in the midst of a storm. And I feel like that's what the enemy doesn't want us to understand.

that's what the enemy wants us to lose sight of. God never said that he came to the earth to take away our problems. He said he came to the earth to be with us, that I will be with you into the end of the age, right? And so when you think about this idea of sharing or suffering, this is the reason why First Peter 4, verse 12, says, my beloved, right? It starts off with my beloved, right?

It doesn't say humanity. It's talking about people who are beloved by God. Don't be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you. It's the word surprise for me. Yeah. Because I'm surprised every single time. Yeah. And so Peter said, Peter said, don't be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you.

This fiery trial was referencing the 200-year burning the Rome where Christians was, you know, burnt alive and thrown off of clips. That's what he's talking about. So he's giving them. them context to talk about the significance of it. Don't be surprised at the Fari trial when it comes to test you as something strange was happening to you. Right. He said, don't even think it's strange, but it's, he goes on to say, but it's happening

to test you, right? And then he says, but rejoice in so much as you share in Christ's sufferings. And so he said, not only should you not be surprised at the Fari trial, not only you should be surprised by the suffering. be surprised by the suffering, but he's saying, but rejoicing it. Yeah. Because everything that you go through as a Christian, you are going through it with Jesus. And I think about even my children, right?

Because I love my child, my child cannot go through something that doesn't affect me. Right. And so if my child goes and gets bullied at school and she comes back crying, I'm going to enter into a form of suffering because I love her. My God. Right. And so what the scripture is saying, he's saying, he's saying, you will, we will never go through a trial that God doesn't go through because he's our father. Right. And, and we're sharing in his suffering as well because we live on the same earth that he suffered in. And so it's like, man, rejoice in the fact that Jesus is with you through the suffering. That's good. Right. And so I, we just have to like meditate on that, you know. So I want to read this verse because, Like, the way God can communicate his presence while we are suffering is through other members of his bride.

And I say that because it is so much easier to try to figure all this out by yourself, right? So I'm mad, but let me try to quench this anger by myself. I'm depressed, but let me try to find joy by myself. And it's like we rightly emphasize the fact. fact that like we shouldn't idolize people and try to put our hope in other people, right? So there's also the temptation to either isolate or to a mesh myself in somebody else where it's like, oh, I need comfort. Let me let me hang out with my friends and da, da, da, that's not bad. But you can I'm saying like, we either isolate or we like lift up other people. But I think there is value in

seeing that people are oftentimes the means by which God communicates his witness. And I say that because in 2 Corinthians 7, which 2nd Corinthians is, I've been on this like all week while I've been going through all the stuff because if you read 2nd Corinthians, Paul writes very emotionally in this letter. I love 2nd Corinthians, but I don't know what you're about to read. So it's an obscure verse. I'm trying to think my mind is like, it's a random verse that stuck out to me because I'm like, no, that's significant.

So chapter 7 verse 6 and 7, okay? He says, for evil. when we came into Macedonia, our bodies had no rest, but we were afflicted at every turn fighting without and fear within. Listen, we were afflicted at every turn fighting fear all over the place. So I'm going through. I'm struggling. I'm afflicted. All the things. Verse eight, but God who comforts, verse six, who comforts the downcast, how does he comforted us by the coming of Titus. Right? That's where you're going. You over here. You overhear the. You over here. sad, afflicted, and what if God wants to use the people near you to comfort you?

That's good. You know what I'm saying? So it's like even me being able to talk to you about what I was going through, us sitting down and talking to Brenna at the same time. Like literally she's talking about what I was just fighting with that morning, right? Being comforted by that. For me to be able to text certain people and for them to come, like, it's not, it's not me idolizing them.

It's me seeing that they were tools and research. by which God was ministering to my heart. And this is the reason why, you know, I think when we're attacked with depression, the first thing that we want to do is want to be isolated, you know, and the Bible tells us it's not good for men to be alone. I feel like especially in that. Yes. This is the reason why he has given us community.

Yes. You know, and so to take advantage of the resources, that's really good. To take advantage of the resources because it's like, man, we want God. It's like, we want God to show up. And it's like, no, he's actually showing up in the form of people because God has always used people to carry out his will. Right. And so that's, that's really good. It's like, God, where are you? And it's like, I'm here. He's right there and sister, and sister Diane right there. You know what I'm saying? But you don't even see it because, you know, you don't got to do some supernatural thing. And it's like, no, he's actually working the natural. Yeah. It takes. In very supernatural ways. And I read that, I say that text because I think it's easier for some of us to reach out to people. I think some people, that's not even a thing. It's like, oh, yeah, like that's, for me, that's hard. Like that, that requires vulnerability for me to say to somebody,

I need you, I'm hurting. Can you pray for me? Can you come over? Can we, like, that takes some vulnerability. Yeah, for sure. But what motivates vulnerability, what motivated me, even letting you into that moment, was the faith that God uses people. You know what I'm saying?

So it wasn't vulnerability for vulnerability. it was a vulnerability rooted in the fact that I have evidence that God might just help me if I tell somebody that already knows him. And he used people. Yes. Not just me. He used other people, the people that you text. And so that's, that's a blessing, man.

So, yeah, that was our day. So you still angered? I ain't going to front a little bit. You definitely are. I can tell. Because I'm just, I'm just really sleepy. You know, but God is good. But God has used.

you and actually he used this podcast to help get a lot of it out. That's good. I feel better. That's good. Just like how you feel better after our series, after our podcast, I said, how do you feel? You said, I feel much better. And then I left the house and then you texted me and said, oh, I think I got kidney stones. So something like us.

It's, yeah, I'm not even going to say what it is because we don't have a thousand comments about. But I do have a situation where at random I can go with, I can have intense stomach pains. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I do feel better after this podcast. God used you in this conversation to get me out in the same way that God used our series of podcasts yesterday to kind of get you out of the funk. And then afterwards, she was hit with stomach pain, which is crazy. But God is good. It was a lot.

So I want to, before we close, I just want to read this again because I think this passage is helpful. Because as ministers, all of us, everybody listening. It don't matter if you got a platform or not. If you are a believer, if you are in Christ, you have been given the commission to make disciples, to be ambassadors with the ministry of reconciliation to help people be reconciled back to the father. So all of us are ministers,

but we are also ministers with a treasure, but in a jar of clay. Therefore, we break, not fully, but we crack, right? Like there's pain, there's difficulty, there's frustration, there's dark, there's darkness, there's weirdness, but we can be encouraged because verse 7, 2 Corinthians 4 says, but we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that their surpassing power belongs to God and not to us. We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed, perplexed, but not driven to despair, persecuted, but not

forsaken, struck down, but not destroyed, always carrying in the body the death of Jesus so that the life of Jesus, may also be manifested in our bodies. And so I just appreciate that Paul, he goes through like, no, I've been afflicted. I've been crushed. I've been persecuted. But none of it was ever,

none of it was ever completed. So I was confused. Yeah. But I didn't have, I didn't go to despair, right? And so like, we can only like get to that point by just leaning into Jesus and community and prayer and Bible and all stuff.

And then also, too, I think I just kind of want to end with just saying that, you know, maybe we should do a whole podcast of one day about just thinking about eternity, having an eternity mindset, you know, because when Paul says, you know, I reckon that the sufferance of this presence, I'm not worthy to be compared to the same look. Yeah, to the glory that shall be revealed in us in Christ Jesus. He's saying, man, these light momentary afflictions, it's not worth light. It's not even a drop of water and all the oceans of the earth. compared to the glory that we will receive one day when we are with Jesus forever. And so look to heaven. Amen.

Amen. All right, y'all. With the Parish is produced by the Parys with support from Amanda Reed and Channing McBride, video recording and audio production by Kim Powell, Abashai Perez, and Xavier Fairley, edited by the team at Tread Lively, artwork by Hop, and Music by Swoot.

Thank you for listening. Now go with God.