With The Perrys - When Christianity Gets Hard

Episode Date: August 4, 2025

Sometimes coming to Christian faith means that life gets harder and we don’t like that. We will all find ourselves in moments or seasons of discouragement, but we can wrestle through it with reverence. The main way to fight discouragement is by having a knowledge of God’s Word that helps you lean into Christ, and in this week’s episode, the Perrys walk through a number of passages to help us do just that.  Scripture references: Psalm 88 John 6:60-68 Genesis 21:6 Luke 1:34 Galatians 6:6-9 Psalm 136:1-5 Hebrews 3:13 Hebrews 12:1-3 1 Peter 4:12-17 John 15:18-25 2 Corinthians 4:16-17 James 5:13 Other links: Jackie at Passion 2025 – “In Defense of Hope” “I Don’t Want to Be a Christian Anymore…” from Santee Zenobia TikTok and Instagram  Subscribe to the Perrys' newsletter: https://withtheperrys.myflodesk.com/zhfus4jx1s Join Preston's discipleship community for men: https://www.patreon.com/PrestonPerry/membership To support the work of the Perrys, donate via PayPal: https://paypal.me/withtheperrys Shop BOLD Apparel: boldapparel.shop Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We started? Yeah. Because this could be a part of the podcast. Oh, you want this a part of the podcast. That's fine. Hello, y'all. I'm calling my mama. Hold on.

You should entertain the people. While Jackie calling her mom to tell her mom to stop letting our kids ride scooters upstairs because we hear all their mics. How y'all doing? Did y'all brush your teeth today? Did y'all clip y'all tell you? Because them riding scooters and running around. She didn't answer?

No. Oh, my goodness. All of y'all, all you all need Apple Watches. The way I be having to call you 17 times, so I guess it's with the Perry. Just tell her what I need. If you're talking directly to her, just say what it is. You know how strange it is to talk to the person that I called

and say answer the phone. She has something to say to you when you're talking directly to her. So you should just say what it was that I would have said. That's how interesting. your brain is that you're talking directly to her and you say, hey, the person. You want to know, you know, my thought process. That's so interesting that you. You want to know my thought process.

What? My thought process. You're talking directly to her and you say, hey, answer the phone. Jackie has something to say to you, you, the person I'm talking directly to. You. You don't know what. Please explain. My thought process.

Let me into your mind. My thought process, I went upstairs. I was going to speak directly to the kids, but I didn't see the kids. And I know you wanted to tell her a particular thing. To tell the kids to be still. But you're speaking to her. I don't know. I just try to do whatever this.

But I felt the quickest thing possible. Hey, look, this episode is dealing with discouragement, and you discouraging me. No, discouragement would have been, because what I actually just displayed was restraint. Restraint would have been. You stupid. You so dumb. it would have been you're a dumb black man

I didn't say that it would have been it would have been to you're so silly why I marry you no to frame your approach in a way that was condescending but instead I wanted to understand

what was happening in your mind that led you to approach it in that way I actually I actually you know I was I led with curiosity rather than condescension I actually was probably going to do that. But then I was like, you know what?

Jackie wanted to communicate her frustration with her. No, I'm not frustrated with her. Oh, okay. Not the kids. I'm not frustrated with anybody. Okay. I just was curious as to when you was talking directly to her. Like, hey, Jackie called to you as a boat.

Anyway, December is alive. Y'all have been in the comments, in the DMs. I forgot about that. I am so thankful. She was so downtrodden. and was, I am really thankful and appreciative that many of you were sharing in our sufferings in that way.

And it's interesting because I was like, when we released it, he was healed like the next day. And I was like, we should have put something at the end of the video. I was like, I should have texted Matt. Like, hey, we need to put a little voice a man track or something at the end saying he's yet alive.

What's crazy is, you know, when I talk to the doctor, The doctor was like, yeah, it's not looking good. I don't, you know, I don't know if he, if he going to live. And so the fact that he made such a fast recovery is just nothing but the Lord. I think it's, I think it's the prayers of the righteous availing much. And so I said on Instagram, I said, for this man to be a dog, he's your got nine lives. And what's crazy is, like, it would be like the little small things that I feel like, you know,

the Lord just be doing to show us that he loves us because, you know, we had to fly to Europe with the news that our dog might not. Could be leaving. Could be leaving. And so we was like, man, like this Europe trip is kind of like getting ruined because in Europe we can get the news that, oh, December passed. So what we're talking about today? Discouragement.

How to wrestle through it, fight against it. what scriptures you need to have in your back pocket, what ideas from. Because, I mean, really, the main way to fight discouragement is a knowledge of God's word that helps you lean into Christ at the end of the day. It ain't flattery. It ain't, you know, lacing up your bootstraps. I mean, I know we love that song, but you can lace up your bootstraps all day. That's the song?

Yeah, I don't really know the lyrics like that. I just know people love it. But I ain't boo-boing on the song. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying even like the American idea of, you know, lacing up your bootstraps, like this sense of like encouraging yourself. I think encouraging yourself independent of dependence on Christ is not what I'm advocating for. I'm saying encouraging yourself in the Lord is what I want us to do. One of the things that kind of initiated my thought process on this is one. I did a sermon on this at passion earlier this year about

discouragement and how to fight against it. So I think y'all should go look at that. But there was this TikTok that this girl shared and I'm gonna play the audio. Because I'm like the TikTok was so honest for one. But I also think a lot of people feel this way and just don't share it. And so I'm gonna play the audio

and I feel like y'all will resonate with what she's saying. And that may come as a shock. I don't want to be a Christian anymore. And that may come as a show. shock because if you know me on here or in real life, like, I don't just know the Bible, I don't just go to church. Like, I love the Bible. I love God. I love his word. I love his people. But I think I'm at a place where I can't help but feel like me loving God, me loving his people, me loving his church has only led me to deeper hurt. And so it's not that I'm doubting the truth,

right? It's that I don't like the truth right now. I don't like the reality of suffering. I don't like that we have to feel that suffering. I don't like that we are called to love people that hurt us. I don't like the fact that there's not an opportunity for numbness in the Christian walk as there is in the world. And it's this weird place of like, I probably believe God's truth more than I ever have in this season, but I hate it more than I ever have in this season. And it's just like I know that God, I didn't choose God first. So as much as I want to leave, he's not going to let me go that easy. I am bound by covenant to him. He's called me and said, me apart for his good work, right?

And so my prayer in this season, when I do have the strength to pray, it's like, Lord, you said you would keep me and present me to yourself holy and spotless with exceeding joy. So you're going to have to do that because all I have for you right now is me being here. The truth is, I'm only really here because I know there's nowhere I can go from his spirit. That is facts. Yeah. Yeah, what a part, she said a lie.

What about what she said you resonated with the most, or was it all? All of it. Yeah. People, first of all, if you read the Psalms, she's saying what some, that's Psalms 88 energy. That's Peter energy where Paul, where Jesus is like, hey, y'all want to go to? He's like, I mean, where are we going to go? I was listening to a sermon from Piper this morning where he was like for Peter to say to whom where shall we go has the implication that they've considered other sources. and have landed on the fact that there's no other source outside of Christ.

So that means that they've thought maybe we should go somewhere else and have said, ah, there's nowhere else to go. And so what season provoked the other considerations, right? And so I think we have to be honest that sometimes coming to Christian faith means life gets harder. Yeah. And do you think that's the problem? Because, you know, I remember, I forget what year was.

It had to be like year two or three when I was in the faith. And I was, I was, I don't know if I was complaining, but I was just kind of venting on how, you know, when you get past that honeymoon phase, when you become a Christian and then stuff start getting hard. And I was venting to, like, to somebody how hard it was and they kind of rebuked me. Like, you are in Christ now, yada, yada, yada. And do you do, do you think that that- The person that rebuked you, where are they at now? I have no idea. I don't know.

I don't, you know. It was church that I used to go to, but I don't know. there yet. But what I hear her saying and what I hear you saying and what I hear you saying Peter saying is like the people in the scriptures didn't kind of hide how hard the Christian life is. They expressed consistently that this Christian life is hard. And so I guess my question is do you think that a lot of it is that sometimes the church has an inability for some reason to just be honest about how hard the Christian life is? And that's the reason why people don't have a healthy place to lament to express frustration.

What do you think it is? Yeah, I think, I'm trying to be balanced. I think we have a hard time with the intersection between, like, faith and lament, faith, and struggle with faith, faith, and doubt, and how all of these things. can coexist at the same time and yet still be reverent right? Like, I can be struggling with faith

and it not be unbelief. Yeah. Do you understand what I'm saying? So, unbelief, like, I'm trying to think of these two texts. I am not used to this Bible. I need my Bible, bro. Can I see, you got a Bible? So I don't know where my ESB Bible,

ooh, Jesus. You ought to buy your kids. shit, they're my car, y'all, not by ye. That's what kind of Bible this is. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. Is it Psalms 2-4? No. So you have two situations where, like, you have Sarah in Genesis,

where a word is given that she will have a baby and she laughs, that she'll have Isaac, I believe. Yeah, that she'll have Isaac and she laughs, and that is a credit to her as unbelief, that she doubts the Lord. Then you have Mary, who asks the question of, when she hears from the angel,

that she will give birth to a son. And she is like, how will this be? But it's a credit to her as faith. But she's asking these questions, not out of doubt, but out of a wrestle, out of a curiosity that's rooted in a reverence for. I know you can do it.

I'm just wondering how. Sarah is like, no, I just actually don't believe you're going to do that because I've been waiting this long and you haven't done it thus far. And so I think from the outside looking in, sometimes we can see wrestling and assume that all wrestling is irreverence. And that's not the case. And so I think in both cases, we see evidences that some wrestling is reverence, some wrestling is irreverence.

And so that's what I'm saying. And I think in the church sometimes we are assuming that all struggle is sinful struggle. That's good. And that's not true. That's good. That's good. Yeah. Yeah.

Like, and I used to be super, that's, I'm really glad you made that distinction because I used to be super discouraged. And I kind of felt like, especially in that season, that I had no room to ever express that this is hard. That I'm surrounded around so many people. people that I feel like I'm forced to love that don't love me at all. What do you mean? Because that season in my life, I had transitioned out of the church, and I felt like it was so much slander, so much, you know, like gossip against me or whatever. And I'm still trying to be a Christian.

And I love God, and I identify with, you know, the audio that you play. Like, it's not like I doubt its word. I just doubt everybody around me. It's super discouraging. And so I think making that distinct. that distinguishing the two and also letting us know there is a proper place for us to lament

to mourn and to grieve and we shouldn't always have to feel like we're not believers because we choose to do so. And what I hear in, something she said that is very significant is that she doesn't like that there is no room for numbness

in the Christian faith like there is in the world. I actually think that that is a major part of what makes Christianity hard. What do you mean by that? Because in Christianity, you have to endure suffering. In the world, you can cope.

For example, in the world, when stuff get hard, I could go distract myself with something. I can get in a relationship to distract myself, like a sinful relationship and distract myself. I can have an idolatious situation and distract myself. I could drink the bottle all the way to the dregs and distract myself.

I smoked blunts every single hour on the hour to distract myself. You can pull up pornographic images to get that shot of dopamine to distract yourself. But then when you become a Christian, you have all of these laws and then you have these convictions. Then you have this conscience where the Lord is like that. sin, that's sin, that's sin, that's sin, that's sin, that's sin. And so now the things that you turn to as coping mechanisms are sin. And so now when things get hard, now God wants you to trust him. And put those things in death. And in trusting him, it doesn't mean that he, like, he's a refuge, but it doesn't mean that he won't take the bad feelings away as you wait on him.

And also, and also, that's hard. That is, that is. But also trusting that the, the bad feelings or whatever and the things that you're wrestling with is still helping conform you into the image of Jesus. Right. But we're cultivated in the society. I even wrote this in my phone two weeks ago. I literally wrote it. Go ahead.

I'll read it to you. It's a very simple sentence because y'all don't think I'm lying. On July 10th, 2025 at 2.37 p.m., I said, you don't know how to endure feeling bad feelings. Wow. we're in a society that tells us enduring bad feelings is inconvenient. That's why we're always on our phones because our phones distract us from feeling bad feelings. How much of our incapacity or inability to even just suffer is just you just don't like feeling bad feelings. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. What would you say has been the number one thing that has helped you endure feeling bad feelings? Is it a particular scripture? Is it meditating on a particular truth? What has what has helped you? Helping me is, I'll be honest in saying there's tension, right? Yeah.

So there are the promises that joy comes in the morning. Mm-hmm. Meaning sometimes joy is eventual, not right now. Mm-hmm. So there is the frustration of joy is potentially promised to you. You do have to wait, though. Yeah. So some of us just have to be patient with God

and know that he's producing something in you as you wait on him. Mm-hmm. But it's promised. It is coming, right? I also think that joy, that emotion in particular, is a fruit of the spirit that has to be cultivated. If we want to talk about those emotional promises, it has to be cultivated. I think if we talk about stuff like, I want to keep talking about dopamine, if we talk about drinking or sex or pornography or cocaine or stuff that produces these really good emotions that we run to, these distractions. Like they produce such a big feeling of joy that alleviates these senses of anxiety.

The thing is you don't have to cultivate that. All you just got to do is drink. But then when you turn to Philippians and it says rejoice in the Lord. Again, I say rejoice. And then eventually, then it says, cast your cares on the Lord. And then the peace of God that surpasses your understanding, guard your heart and mind in Christ Jesus.

It means that like the guarding of the heart and the mind is a, cultivation of casting your cares, rejoicing in the Lord, which means that, like, you have to, like, practice gratefulness, which means you have to practice, like, laying aside discontentment, which means you have to practice playing aside covetousness, which means you, like, you have to cultivate that, right? And so I think we want immediate joy when the Lord says, no, you have to cultivate that. That's good. You got to work towards that. I love, I love that you're using the word cultivation because it reminds me of Galatian 6 and talking about, it's just talking about reaping.

Like, like, the Lord often used this analogy of sowing and reaping, especially because he lives in such an agricultural environment and society where they just understood the patience that it took to grow crops, to grow farms, and stuff like, patience is it. And a lot of times, we just don't have really good patience. in our Christian walk. Long suffering. Listen to what he says, this Galation 6,

starting at the 6 verse, it says, let the one who has taught the word share all good things with the one who teaches it. And so that's just encouraging to me because, one, he's referring to teachers who teach the word.

And it's saying, lo, if you have been sold good teaching from those who teach the word, because the word is God's word, like share good things with those who teach. And so like one, that encourages me because like the scripture has a person like you and mine. It's saying like this woman teaches good truths. And oftentimes you get hit with life too.

Oh, yeah. And so you need to be reminded of all the good truths that you put out there. Like somebody in your life needs to remind you of the things that you teach. Right. And so I think this is what it means. what it says let the one who is taught the word share all good things with the one who teaches, right? Encouraging teachers. And it says, do not be deceived. And it quickly goes to the word, do not be deceived. And it's like, whoa, that's kind of abrupt. God is not mocked.

For whatever one's souls, that one will also reap. For one's souls in his own flesh, he will reap the flesh of corruption. He will reap corruption. And so like what you say, like we can go to the temporary things when we're discouraged we can go to pornography we can go to sex we can go to alcohol we can go on all these all of these things but it's like don't be deceived you will reap these things like if you if you if you if you sold these temporary things to deal with your discouragement you will reap death yeah yeah and so like whatever you put into the ground yeah that's also will come come out but then listen to what he says after that he says he says he says says, but the one who souls the spirit will also reap eternal life.

And let us not grow weary in doing good. For in due season, we will reap if we do not give up. That's good. That's good. And so, like, he's literally saying, like, I know that you're discouraged. I know that it's hard. But, like, when we put this grain into the ground, like, like God has orchestrated the earth in the way that will allow water to come,

that will allow the sea to settle in the earth, that will allow something to spring forth. And you will reap a harvest if you just do not walk away from the good thing that God originally gave you, which was his word, his church, his people. And so I think that's just, that encourages me because God is saying, yo, good things will come. You just have to be patient. I think it might be helpful to even identify because you have a tendency not to know how you feel.

And so... Just put me out there. Yeah, you don't know how you feel all the time, Bucco? You don't. And so some people might be discouraged and not actually know that that's what's happening. Yeah, that's true. So identify for us, what does, for you, what does discouragement tend to feel like? Man, that's a loaded question for me.

Because like you just said, I don't be knowing how to feel. I only knowing what I feel. A lot of times I think especially when you're a person who kind of crowd your mind with a lot of thoughts, sometimes you have to kind of organize your thoughts to kind of put language to how you feel. So how do you know when somebody is discouraged then? Like if you're talking to a brother in Christ, and it's like, I think you're discouraged, bro. Yeah, when there's no language of hope, when there's no language of goodness, when your mind consistently goes to what's wrong.

It's been times where, because on the outside looking in, I could be disciplining somebody or just friends with somebody. And I can see so many blessings around them. And it's like they don't even see it. You know? And then you have to be honest with yourself. It's like, no, I've been in seasons where I can identify that feeling too. What God is giving me a new house and I'm downstairs in the basement of press.

or just bless me with so many friends and I'm depressed and I'm down-tried about the one relationship that's failing. Like it's so many things that kind of gives you evidence that this person is just dealing with discouragement and a lack of hope and joy. And so it's always there for me. Sometimes go back to your original question. Sometimes I just don't have the language to even realize that I'm actually dealing with hopelessness and discouragement. and it's always in those seasons where I'm doing so much and I'm forgetting to sit with the Lord. Yeah, yeah.

It's like as soon as I sit with God, and a lot of times when we slow down, that's when we get hit so hard because in these seasons where we're just doing, doing, doing, God is like, no, what, you know what? I actually wanted to heal so much and you should have been sitting in my feet, but you're trying to do so much work for me

that you're actually not sitting with. Martha, Martha. You know what I'm saying? You know, that's something that I've dealt with in my Christian life. It's like, man, like, as soon as I slow down, I realize, oh, I'm actually not good. I'm not good. I think discouragement is much like, well, discourage its word is the loss of courage. And so really it really is this temperament where you lose the desire.

to desire. So even the the courage to move towards anything, that you lose the energy to have hope, the energy to move forward, the energy to cultivate, the energy to do work. You know what I'm saying? So if you're a parent and you're discouraged, it's like, this child is so difficult, I've lost the courage to feel like my parenting will even produce any fruit in their life. if you're discouraged in your marriage, I've lost the courage to feel like God is going to continue to work with our broken pieces. If you feel discouraged in your mental health, you've lost the courage to continue to believe that God is going to heal those wounds and heal those traumas. If you feel discouraged in your workplace, you feel like God has forgotten about you and doesn't see you. And so you're just going through the nine to five. You just hear and you're just invisible.

Like you just lose courage. And that courage is like you, I think even if you have a visual image, it's like your head is down. Your back is bent. Your, you feel low. You know what I'm saying? And it affects the way you pray. Yeah. Because when I'm discouraged, I become the person James warns against where you pray, but you don't even pray with faith.

anymore. So you're going through the motions. I know I'm supposed to pray, but I'm not even praying with faith. And so I don't even know if the Lord is hearing me when I'm doing what I'm supposed to do because I'm a Christian, so I'm going to pray with faith. But it's like, why am I praying? If I've been praying and I don't feel like you're responding, because truthfully, sometimes we lost hope, sometimes we walk in discouragement because I was praying for this thing and it felt like you weren't answering me. And so I just, I don't want to be disappointed by you anymore. Yeah, yeah.

God. Yeah. And so I'm discouraged by you. Yeah. Yeah. And I think one thing that we have to remember, and it's hard, and I'm speaking to myself right now, is that God actually can deal with our honesty. Yeah, you can.

He can deal with our honesty. deal with us saying, God, I don't trust you in the season. God, I've been praying for this for so long. And it's like, you don't hear me. You don't see me. And I think in those moments, God just had to remind me like so many times that I, like, you have to consistently meditate on my word. And it's not like you're not going through things that people haven't went through

in the Bible time and time again when they felt like I didn't see them. But I saw Zakiya's by the sycamore tree. I saw the disciples when they was in the house afraid because they thought they was about to be crucified like me. I saw them. I saw the woman who had the issue with blood, who cried out for years and years and years to be healed. I saw the man at the pool of Pithesma who came to this pool. What you said it was? What is it called?

Pothasma. And that's what it's called. I ain't going to shame. What is it called? Just correct me. Bethesda. Bethesda. Yeah.

You know what I'm talking about. I know. But like he went to this. The Lord saw you. The Lord saw me. You know, he went to this pool every single day. Mm-hmm. For years.

For years. It's like, and so it's like, what's happening in your life, it's not like it's not indicative to so many people that was put here before us. But here's, here's the anchor, okay? Because I, oh, Godly, I understand. You got a, you got a, you got a, uh, What was that, Ali? I understand.

Oh, I thought you had to booblo. No, I understand the weariness of waiting. Yeah. I get that. I understand the confusion and the incongruence between you are good and it doesn't feel like you're being good to me. I understand that. And even feeling like, Lord, I don't even want to sin against you and being that honest with you.

Right? So you're thinking that people who are dealing with discouragement. of waiting on the Lord. You feel like they might feel like they are sinning because their honesty with the Lord is so... I think some people... I think some people are afraid to be honest because they don't want to sin against God in their speech.

I think Job was being really careful with God and his discourse with God about that. Like, Lord, like, I'm just... I'm just say this. Like, I'm trying to be careful. You know what I'm saying? I think some people are like that. But I think there also is a tension

where it's like... You're big. You're almighty. You're strong. And so I also know that if you're not answering the door after I knock 10 times, you've got to be up to something. Yeah, you got to be doing something. And so I'm just simply saying, at what point you're going to let me know what you're up to. Yeah.

Right? So I'm just saying there's just tension all around. I'm empathizing. But I'm saying on the other side, what anchors even the knowledge that God sees, these people is Bible. You get what I'm saying. And so what discouragement does is that discouragement, this is the snare of discouragement.

Please hear me when I say this. Discouragement and I am saying this from a place of experience and from a knowledge of scripture, discouragement makes us self-oriented. Discouragement turns you in on yourself. Discouragement makes you think about what you're going through. makes you introspective about your feelings, makes you interrogate yourself, makes you feel like it turns you in on yourself so much that you do stop considering your neighbor, you stop thinking about the, because you become cynical about this book.

Yeah. You do. And so you stop reading it. That's good. And you stop reading it. And so even if you don't understand how none of this applies to your circumstances, at the very least, just search it for God's character. That's so good.

Just search it for his nature. Yeah. So it's like, look at his nature. I was reading Psalm 136 the other day. You know what I'm saying? Where this is the biggest, is this the biggest Bible you have? That's the Bible I'll read when I'm on the back patio. I bet.

You can put this on the ground and see it. It has good study notes. No, you can put this on the ground to see it from the deck. It has really good study notes. Well, you could give me a smaller. No, you don't need it. This is one in the Bible's you born here. You're almost 40.

You don't need no glasses. The shade. You don't need nothing. I can stand 10 feet tall and see this thing. Psalm 136. Give thanks to the Lord for he is good for his steadfast love endures forever. Give thanks to the God of God's for his steadfast love endorsed forever. Give thanks to the Lord of Lords for his steadfast love endorsed forever.

To him who alone does great wonders for his steadfast love endures forever. To him who by undefast love endorsed forever. understanding made through the heavens for his stead. That's all the Psalmist does is a refrain for his steadfast love endures forever. So imagine, imagine you're going through a trial. You've been going through a trial for a year, two years, three years, four years, five years, and you cannot see your way out. You do not understand what God is doing.

He is not speaking to you. He is not giving you answer. He is not giving you dreams. You ain't got no prophetic words. You ain't encouraged. You don't know what's happening, but you land on a text like this. Psalms 136, and all you do for the next two days is meditate that his steadfast love, meaning,

his love don't change, meaning, his love don't shift meaning, his love ain't wishy-washy, his steadfast love endures forever meaning. Whatever he's doing, I know that he loves me. That's good. Whatever he's doing, I know that his love is steadfast. Whatever he's doing, he is loving me forever and forever. You can't tell me that your hope won't raise a little bit. That's good.

That's what I mean. It's like in these kinds of trials, if you don't do nothing, you have to stay in your word. And you ain't even got to look at the, you ain't even got to look at the Hebrew, the Greek. Sometimes you don't even got the energy for that. Sometimes you ain't got the energy for no cross references. You ain't got the energy for no study notes and others. Just meditation on God's goodness. If you got one sentence, there's been times I only got energy for, I got energy for two verses.

Yeah. That's all I got. I gave you two verses, Father. Even if you got to read Romans, I think eight and 18. that the sufferings of this present time is not worthy to be compared to the glory that shall be revealed in me in Christ Jesus. Like just meditating or 1 Peter 12, like do not be surprised at the fiery dots when it comes upon you to test you. It's so something with strangers happening to you, but rejoice insofar as you're sharing Christ's sufferings. I have to consistently remind myself of these scriptures oftentimes because what you said is so true that our suffering and our discouragement can make us so inwardly looking.

And that's the reason why I know seasons, I feel the loneliest. And it's not because I am lonely. I'm actually surrounded around people who love me. I'm just thinking about me so much that I feel lonely. You're not lonely, but your situation has made you so inward looking that you feel lonely because all you have done all day is entertain your thoughts, your discouragements, how you feel, how you don't. have the morale to get up. Yeah. So you feel lonely because you actually haven't done life with the

people that God has put around you. Because you're also being lied to. Let's be clear. And that's what you're doing to me? Let's be clear. Y'all do that growing up in black church. You're also being lied to. You're talking good. The Bible says in Hebrews, it says, it says, exhort one another, exhort one another, encourage one another, build up one another, edify one another. every day, every day, every day, while today is today. Yeah, come on, talk to us. So that you will not be hardened, hardened by the deceitfulness,

deceitfulness, deception of sin. Teach us with your little pretty face, even make up. Come on now. Meaning you have to be in community. Community. Because somebody, meaning the devil, the world, and the flesh will lie to you. If you are not around people to help you not lie to your own self.

And like, you will lie to your own self and the devil are going to lie to you. And so you got to be around people who will edification is not merely just gas. Yeah. It's not gas. It's also like, I get it, bro. You are discouraged, but it's also truth tell it. Because we got to look at community. I know everybody that listened to our podcast ain't a hood baby like me, but I'm a hood baby.

And so in the hood, we always knew you more likely to get you. get beat up by yourself. If you ain't got your brother around you or your sister or your cousins or boo-boo and poo and little knock-knucking around you, somebody catch you lacking. They're going to beat you up. Why? Because there's safety in community.

You be getting beat up by the devil because you're in your room all day. You know what? I think... Go around community. You know what I think, though? I'm going to be very honest. It ain't like I'm never not. I think we as a community, because a lot of y'all listen to us, okay?

What would happen? Some of y'all just watched them, criticize us, but we love y'all too. What would happen if we all diligently started praying for healthy sources of community for each other? Because I actually think that is a big part of the prevalence of discouragement in the Christian community today. Because really one of the fundamental sources of discouragement in my life in the last 10 years has been community. If we want to be clear. It's been that. And so that's the irony of saying Hebrew says, exhort one another while today is still today, so you will not be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

And so you need community so that you won't be hardened. You need community so that you will be exhorted. And yet community oftentimes is the same place where you end up wounded and hurt and traumatized. Oh, yeah. And so it's like that this is the place where I'm supposed to be exhorted and helped and all the things, but that's also the same place that I'm afraid to go. Yeah. Right?

And so we need to pray for courage to keep moving into these places that are scary. Yeah. And we also need the courage to, do you get what I'm saying? Absolutely, absolutely. But that could be a scary thing. That could be a scary thing to say, God. God, I'm discouraged because dealing with your people is hard. Yes.

I was in this space and these people hurt me. Yes. It shows me that people have the ability to hurt me deeply. Yes. You want me to leave my room and enter back in community where people have the ability to do that to me again? Yes. Because my room is driving me insane.

Yes. But then if I leave my room, they drive me insane too. So what you want me to do? So I'm not getting cut anymore in my room, but the devil is beating me up all day in my room. Yes. And so I think what God wants us to understand is when we look at his scriptures, not only do we see his goodness,

but we see that he has always filter out his goodness through people. Mm-hmm. I agree. That you, the same type of people that hurt you, God is going to use people to help heal you. First, second grade is. Right. And so you actually cannot truly be healed apart from community.

Facts. That is how he has always filtered out his goodness. It's we have his Bible because of people. Yes, we do. You know what I'm saying? And so God wants us to, you know what I'm saying? And not only that, this is something that we also have to understand. It is also the devil tactic to keep us away from community,

not because we just don't want to get hurt again, because he don't want your gifts and your talents in that community, bless in that community. He does not want your discernment in that community. He does not want your teaching. And that, you know, he does not want your exhortation in that community. He wants you disconnected from the body because he doesn't want the body

to benefit from your giftedness. And so that's what we have to understand too. Like the enemy is in the same way God is trying to do multiple things in one time. The enemy is also trying to destroy multiple things at one time. And the flesh. And the flesh.

Yeah. Yeah. So I think we have to be mindful of how our discouragement makes us insular. and how the Lord is always pushing us towards his word, towards his people, for the sake of his gospel and his glory. I think I want to speak to the reality of endurance because I feel like I've been harping on this a lot. But I think I gotta.

Because I just, I just don't. It's good. I don't think we're going to make it if we don't get that in our system. You can never harp on endurance too much. One, the scripture does. You know, I was even reading Timothy, I think it was first or second Timothy. I don't remember it was one of them.

Yesterday where Paul tells Timothy to endure suffering with me. It was him saying it with me. That was interesting. Endure suffering with me like a good soldier. You know. And it has this element to it that's like, yeah, what do you expect? Right. What do you expect?

But then I was thinking about how like a lot of Paul's letters are written with him in a jail. You know, like Colossians is in a jail. I think is Philippians in a jail? he's in jail. Colossians, 1st and 2nd Timothy, I know he's in prison both of those times. He's in jail. Yeah.

And particularly Philippians, Philippians, if you read Philippians, pay attention to how many times he mentions the word rejoicing. In prison. In jail. He was locked up.

The way I'm set up, I have a murmur spirit. Okay. Murm, murm, murm, murm. I have a complaining spirit. Why am I here? What is this about? Why?

What did I do to you? Okay? It's always weird. Not weird. It's just always interesting when women do that. It's like y'all hold your hand. Like, why am I here? Like, it's like y'all.

Because it's communicating for me. I know. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Y'all talk in your hand and your mouth be talking at the same time. Why am I here? It's like a Muppet. Correct. Why am I here?

Like, why do women do that? And I'm not, I'm not criticizing you. I'm just saying, it's just. No, for a second. I'm saying. Like, imagine, like, imagine being in a jail and you're writing a letter to a church full of joy, right? While at the, like, to me, that communicates that he's not enduring suffering while gritting his teeth. Yeah. He's enduring suffering with some type of resurrection power that gives him joy. That is different. And we actually have so much more prosperity than even

he has and yet we have more complaints. There is something about our intimacy with God that's lacking. Even in it. And so I just, go ahead. Yeah, even in when he was in prison, he was writing Timothy in the emphasis church. He says, it's something along the lines. He said, I'm bound in jail as a prisoner. He says, but the gospel is not bound.

He said the gospel is not in chains. He goes on to say, therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect that they might obtain salvation through Jesus Christ with eternal glory. And so he had this beautiful, he had this beautiful. perspective, he was saying, even though I'm bound in jail as a prisoner, he said this treasure that I have called the gospel is not bound. It's not in jail. It's free. And so if God has me here in jail, he has me here for a reason to give the gospel to those around me. And if we thought like that, that's hard. It's easier said than none, but if we thought like that, that's crazy.

Do you know, I had this thought the other day about how Jesus said to the disciples. that when they came to him after he was talked to the woman at the well, they tried to feed him. And he said, I have food to eat that you know not of. That's such a flex. My food is to do. Only God can say something like that. I think we can too, in Christ. In Christ.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He said, my food is to do the will of the one who sent me, meaning he has some type of inner satisfaction simply by doing what his God told him to do. That's good. And I think when you apply that to ministry, I think when you come again, persecution, when you come against difficulty, when you come against circumstances that feel too hard, and you have that temptation to give up,

I think that is when you are rubbing against the degree of love that you actually have. That's really good. So I think that is when you have to ask the question, Lord, I don't think I love you enough to do your will in this way. That's when I need dependence. You get what I'm saying?

So it's not like, like I need, oh, I just got to do. I think when we see all of these ministers falling and these pastors falling, we see people who are trying to do all the things, but they don't have the dependence to do all the things. They didn't have the dependence. You get what I'm saying? And so I think-

Or probably the community too. All of it. All the things. Yeah. And so it's like, for me, to continue in the ministry, and I don't even mean on platforms, I mean as a parent,

I mean as a wife, I mean as a friend, I mean as a mother, I mean as a stranger on the street, I mean, as a neighbor. I mean, in life, as a person, to do everything that God has called us to do, to be able to be sustained by a food

that people know not of. You have to be desperate to love God more than, and you love yourself. That's fine. If you want to give up, I am trying to say that it means that you love yourself more than God. Woof. That's a hard word.

It's true. It's a hard word. But if we meditate on it, it's actually a very true word that our flesh and the enemy that is working together for our own demise wants us to be so consumed with ourselves other than the gospel. Because if I give up, my life will be. easier and that's what I want. I want an easier life. Yeah. But it's like, do you want an easier life or do you want God?

Yeah. I think those are the kind of questions we got to ask. You was about to read the scripture. I was very curious about the scripture you was about to read. Basically, the Hall of Fame of Faith. I think when you look at what they went through, well, first, let's start with Jesus. Hebrews 12. Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every way

and sin which clings so closely. So there are weights that are not sins. They're just things that are hindering our ability to run well, right? So it might be, we don't talk about it enough, but gluttony might be a weight. Well, that is sin, actually. Put out them cold cuts, bucko. You know what I'm saying?

But there are some weights. It might be some friendships I have. They're weighing down my ability to run. Like some pages I follow. They're weighing down my ability to run. run my time on Netflix. They're weighing like, it's not a sin issue, but it's a weight. It's not, it's not allowing me to run this way.

So it's like your discouragement is actually hinging on the fact that you just, you're just a little burden. That's good. You got to get rid some weight. But there's also some sins. So there might be some sins in my life that I need to repent of that is also hindering my ability to run. So some of my discouragement might be eliminated if I also repented of some stuff.

So let's lay aside some weight. Let's get rid of this sin that's clinging so closely. And then let us run with endurance the race that is set before us. I know these prosperity teachers want us to feel as if this Christian life is not a race, nor is it one that we're supposed to endure. But that's just not the way the scriptures are communicated again. Let's run with endurance, the race that is set before us looking to Jesus. Hence, this is how we run.

looking to Jesus, that is why it is so important that when you read the Bible, you're looking at Jesus. That is why it's so important when you read these devotionals, you're looking at Jesus. That is why it's so important, you're going to churches that are singing songs about Jesus, that are preaching sermons that are about Jesus. Because we need content. It helps us look at him because that's how we run. Teach us. We won't run the race with endurance if we don't look at him. Put on your Nike, sir.

Run. You know what Nike's. Looking to Jesus, who is the founder and perfector, of our faith, meaning he initiated the faith, and he perfects the faith. Tim Keller said people like Buddha and these other false religions, they found the faith, but they don't perfect it. So they started, but you got to finish it. Timmy in his bag.

They started. So a faith of works righteousness, they started, but you have to finish it. You got to knock on the doors. You got to do all the stuff. You got to go on a three-a- missionary journey. You got to stand on the corner and tell people, oh, you're going to hell because you're not. So if ever you find yourself in legalism, you've stopped looking at Jesus. So you might have thought that he started it, but now you're trying to finish it.

But Paul says in Galatians, like having started by the spirit, now you're trying to perfect yourself by the flesh. That's not what we want to do. Well, let no one add onto the finished work of Christ. He is perfecting you. That's good. Jesus, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, meaning you're enduring by looking at the one who did this already. He ain't calling you to do nothing. He ain't already did.

Teach us. He endured too. Pretty so. Therefore, by his power, by his strength, you can do the same thing. Despising the shame. And guess where he at now? Seated at the right hand of the throne of God. So all the suffering, all the trials, all the circumstances when God ain't speaking back,

just like he wasn't speaking back to him in the Garden of Gassimity. Guess what? He's right next to him now. He's coming in Hyundai. He's right. He's right next to him. That's encouraging me. So consider him,

verse three, consider him, consider him, think about him, think about him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself

so that you will not grow weary or faint-hearted. You got to think about Christ more than you think about yourself. That's good. That's good. That's so good.

You taught a whole sermon. I just want to. I didn't mean to. I want to just quickly, I talked this passage a couple of years ago on this podcast, but this has helped me so much and I've actually revisited it the last couple of weeks because, you know, life has been life in. But 1 Peter 4, starting after 12 verse, it is literally talking about suffering as a Christian. It is so good, right? It says verse 12, started verse 12. It says, Beloved.

So I just want to stop it, Beloved, right quick. Like the fact that this is about to start talking about Christians suffering, first Peter. Yeah, it's in the back. Yeah, the fact that it says, beloved, lets us know that the suffering Christian that he's talking about is loved by God. You are adored by God. You are loved by God. So he's not talking to Christians who may God mad or God is upset with you. And so don't think that your suffering at this time is God saying that he's mad at you.

for some reason because it's not. It goes on to say, is do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to touch you as something, as though something was strange was happening to you. Now, one, I just want to point out

the fact that this fiery trial is literally referring to a time where Christians was burnt alive and thrown off cliffs. They all knew about this fiery trial. And so it's saying, he's reminding them of a very hard time when Christians were persecuted.

He said, when these fiery trials come upon you to test you, Don't act like something strange is happening to you. But in verse 13, it says, but rejoice insofar as you share in Christ's suffering. It goes on to say that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed. And I think that's one thing that we have to remember. Verse 13 is so important because when we go through sufferings, if you are in Christ, you have to consistently remind yourself that you are entering in sufferings with Jesus.

that you are suffering with your Lord and Savior. In the same way, he is also suffering with you. And I think about my child all the time. There has never been a time where I have felt great in my body. And my child has come to me and say, I got the flu. Or I got a headache. And I didn't enter into some type of suffering. Why?

Because my child was suffering. And any time that we are suffering, we have to understand that not only can Christ identify with our suffering, but because he's our father, he's hurting too. So it's not like God is sitting up in heaven watching us go through something and he does not care about it, right? And so we have to remind ourselves, no, Christ is in our suffering with us. Verse 14 says, if you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed because the spirit of glory and of God rest upon you. And so, man, he's saying, if you are insulted by the name of Christ, for the name of Christ, and somebody don't have to walk up and say, do you believe in Jesus?

and you and you got to say yeah and they say and it insults you just like no like the Bible says that Jesus says if the world hated me they'll hate you also you got to understand the world hates us because of our message yeah a lot of the insults a lot of the attacks is only because of the one you serve yeah and he said but if people insult you're unbless

he says it didn't and it goes on to say but let none of us suffer as a murderer or thief or evildoer or meddler yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let them not be ashamed, will let them glorify God in their name. For this time for judgment to enter into the household of God. And if it begins with us, what would be the outcome of the ungodly and those who disobeyed the gospel of God?

And so he's saying, man, don't suffer. Like, everybody's going to suffer. Yep. Like, people that live in the world, and that be the thing that be getting Christians, it appears like people in the world are just living their life stress-free. But they're suffering. you're just seeing all of their happy moments while they're sinning. But they have no peace.

They have no joy. They have no hope. Every single because of sin, because we live in a fallen world, all of humanity is going to suffer. What Peter is letting us know is if you are going to suffer, suffer as a Christian. Don't suffer like that. Because at the end of their suffering is hell. Hello. at the end of our suffering is glory.

Heck yeah. That's what he's saying. So he said, don't suffer now and then suffer more for all of eternity. He's saying, no, suffer as a Christian so that you also may share in God's glory forever. That's what he's saying. And so I think that we have to consistently, and I think this is what the scripture meant when it says, you know, I recognize that the sufferings of this present time is not worthy to be compared to the glory that shall be revealed in us in Christ Jesus. that we have to consistently remind ourselves, know, like how Galatian says,

we will reap a harvest, but we also have to remind ourselves that know this suffering, we should be taken back by it, but we should also remind ourselves to know God is setting up eternity for us. Yeah, I noticed something interesting where it says,

so we do not lose heart. Ooh, think about that. Think about what? Think about the mental image. We don't lose heart, heart, heart. Heart, courage. Yeah. We don't lose heart, though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed by day.

Catch this. For this light, momentary affliction. Light momentary affliction. I'm going to say it again until we get in our spirits. Light, that's a kind of weight, momentary, that's related to time. Affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison. And meaning- That's such a good contrast.

Your affliction, your affliction has weight. It just isn't as heavy as glory. Woo. Did you catch it? Oh, my, I called it. Your affliction has weight. It's just not as heavy as glory. Yeah, he's basically saying the same thing.

Paul is saying in Romans. Like, literally, like, it's not worthy to be compared. But if you want to compare it, what's coming in comparison to what you're going, going through is heavier than what you're going through. And so the weight of what, so it's like the weight of your depression, the glory will be heavier. Yeah.

The weight of your anxiety, the glory will be heavier. The weight of your betrayal, the glory will be heavier. The weight of, do you get what I'm saying? So when you start to look at it that way, it starts to be like, huh, I'm being prepared for something that's heavy. Yeah, yeah. It's like, it's like, yeah, it's like, yeah, it's like, yeah, it's like, you're to live in a $17 million

mansion if you was just endure living in this little hut for two years. It's like, that's not, like, this, this hut is hard, but it ain't worth comparing to the fact that I'm going to have this, I'm looking forward to this, this, this huge mansion that I'm going to live in for the rest of my life. I don't even know if it's going to be,

I don't, I don't, I'm just trying to like make, make, make a, yeah, yeah, like, the fact that he, they use that contrast is so encouraging because it's, it's not worth, it's not worth comparing, you know, that's dope. But if you do compare. It's heavier. It is very heavier.

My second point is James. I think we probably have listeners who are like, yeah, I actually ain't going to do nothing. So I ain't doing nothing. I ain't weary. I'm at the home chilling. My life is just fine. Praise God. James says in chapter 5 verse 13, is anyone among you suffering, let him pray.

Is anyone cheerful? let him sing praise. I think for you, that applies. If you are cheerful, praise God. If you are suffering, then pray. I think my wisdom would be, many are the afflictions of the righteous. If you are righteous,

affliction is coming. And so that means that this, this podcast can work for you in two directions. One, it can be a preparation for you. This is what you put in your pocket for when affliction comes. to this podcast can be a means of intercession for you for the people in your lives that are suffering.

There is somebody in your circle. There is somebody in your church who is weary, who is discouraged. And so you can take some of the tools, some of the words, some of the scriptures that we gave and you can pass it along or you can use it as a means to pray

for your community. And so I wouldn't take this and be like, oh yeah, I'm cool, I'm straight. I ain't got to do nothing. This ain't got nothing to do with me. No. use it as a means to one prepare yourself and to serve somebody else. Yeah, that's really good.

And I want to just quickly say this because you talked about weight. The reality is every Christian is going to experience some type of persecution, hardships, trials, et cetera, all the things. But there is a particular type of weight. I believe for the Christian who actually is called to ministry, called to teach God's people. And, you know, I've just experienced that being a teacher, a leader in the Christian space, you've experienced it.

You know, I passed, so many people that we know have experienced it. And I just want to just quickly just remind people of what I read when we first started the podcast, Galatian 6. Like, I think it was a week ago, a week of two ago, which is really going through a whole bunch of stuff, sland it on social media, stuff in my personal life, you know, just dealing with a whole bunch. And this girl, she wrote me, like, I didn't cry, but, you know, I couldn't see him coming down my eyes, so I had, you know, yeah.

But I wanted to cry, you know what I'm saying? Because she just reminded me, once she reminded me of all the things that me and you have taught her since, like, 2011. And it wasn't just her flattering me, but she just reminded me of God's truth, reminded me of God's word. And what was crazy was a lot of the stuff that she was reminding me of came from out of what we taught her from online. And I think that's what Galatians 6 is saying when it says let the one who is taught the word share all good things with the one who teaches. And so, like, you might not be going through a particular thing because you might not be at the forefront of the battle.

You might be in the back. You know what I'm saying? You're not getting hit with the same fiery darts as your pastor or your favorite Christian influences or teachers or whatever. But I think one of the things that you got to remind yourself is like God, word has reminded me that all the things that I receive, he just doesn't want to me to take that and apply it to my own life, but he actually wants me to take that same word and encourage the people who teach me. And so that lets us know that this teaching thing is recyclable. You know what I'm saying? It's like, like, I want to give unto you, but just because I'm a teacher doesn't mean I don't need encouragement, doesn't need I don't need I don't.

need, you know, and so I think for the person that's listening, I'm not going through something. Maybe you're not going through something because God in this season is trying to prepare you to go back into people's lives who are teaching and to encourage them. And so that's, you know, that's how the body is the body, you know. And so thank you, whoever you was. I forget your name on social media, but you know you were. You encouraged me a whole lot. And one last encouragement since we hear, because I do, I do, I'm not going to say sense. that sound deep, but I do think that there's a a lot of discouragement happening in the church.

I would really encourage y'all to read through Hebrews in one sitting. Try your best to sit with Hebrews in one sitting. And with the vantage point of its context, meaning Hebrews is written to a community of believers who are just dealing with some really weighty persecution and they're tempted to go back. They're tempted to shrink.

And Hebrews is such an interesting book because it's full of both warning and encouragements. And so it's like, it's like, come here real quick. Come here. I want to show you something. You want to eat me a kid. No. Come here.

It's like the writer is like, amen. Like, hey, you better be careful. The Lord loves you. You better be careful. Hey, I thought I was going to get a kiss. You better be careful. Like, it's like he doing that the whole time. She didn't hand me up.

That's what it felt like. It was like he is like he was like at my neck, but like, you better be careful. Fighting discouragement now. I thought she was going to get me some luscious. No, you feel it in your chest. She said, come here, little boy. You feel it in your chest. But it's like, I feel like I'm encouraged and I'm scared at the same time.

I'm warned and I'm encouraged at the same time. And so I read it. Thank you for putting me a part of your illustration. Yeah, so I feel like I had to give a visual. And so circle it back to what the young lady said at the beginning. I even commented on her person, post, and I said, Hebrews is Hebrews. That's good. I feel like there was a season some years back or maybe some months back, I don't know,

where I was like, Lord, it's hard out here. And I read Hebrews in one sitting and that thing yoke me up. Where it was like. Like you just yoke me up? Yeah, I was yoked up and comforted all at the same time. And I think that's what the Lord is. Like, it's like what C.S. Lewis said is like about Aslan. It's like he's loving, but he's not safe.

So he loves you, but also don't play with him. That's good. And so he wants you to come, but unbelief is also not something that he plays with. Fire. Love y'all. I got to go. My shirt wrinkle now. With the Perry's is produced by The Perrys

With support from Amanda Reed and Channing McBride Video recording and audio production by Matthew Baxter and Xavier Fairley Edited by the team at Tread Lively Artwork by Hop and Music by Swoop Thank you for listening Now go with God