With The Perrys - When Creativity and Humility Meet: A Conversation with Tye Tribbett

Episode Date: October 27, 2025

Tye Tribbett is a Grammy Award-winning gospel artist who infuses his songs with scripture, teaching listeners about God as he sings. In 1996 he created “Greater Anointing,” a choir of his family and friends, and ever since, he’s been writing Jesus-focused music to start conversations, not condemn.  Tye talks with the Perrys about humility, ambition, and what it means to stay kingdom-focused in an industry obsessed with viral success. They unpack the challenges of today’s gospel music scene – from sensationalism to the pressure to perform – and the importance of slowing down for ministry moments and walking closely with God. Connect with Tye: https://www.instagram.com/tyetribbett/ We Outside Tour: https://www.tyetribbett.com/weoutside Scripture references: 2 Corinthians 1:1-7 Matthew 24:9-13   This Episode is Sponsored By: https://www.covenanteyes.com/perrys/ — Get Victory by Covenant Eyes FREE for 30 days with promo code PERRYS Subscribe to the Perrys' newsletter: https://withtheperrys.myflodesk.com/zhfus4jx1s Join Preston's discipleship community for men: https://www.patreon.com/PrestonPerry/membership To support the work of the Perrys, donate via PayPal: https://paypal.me/withtheperrys Shop BOLD Apparel: boldapparel.shop Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, St. Names. How are you? What up with you all? So we had an episode with somebody and I introduced a particular story that I feel like this would be a good story to tell. I'm going to say... And I really want her to tell it. I'm going to say it real succinctly. Because I thought about it, you know. I was like, oh, this is a story I don't think I told on with the Paris, which is I had moved to Chicago.

I was maybe about, I don't know, 23. I'm from St. Louis. So, you know, living in certain kind of underprivileged neighborhoods is not a strange feature in my life. Yet at the same time, I was unaware of the degree. of the underprivile nature of genius. You know how they moved to my city. I correctly did not. And so I was at somebody's house

because I was staying with somebody until I could get my first check to put down on an apartment, okay? I'm in the little office room. They didn't turn into a bedroom because I'm living in there with a few times in a few times in like a bunch of systematic theology books.

And so I'm sitting there on my phone scrolling and I heard somebody come through the door. You know what I'm saying? And because guess the house people, they weren't home. So somebody comes to. through the door, and I'm thinking it's one of them. And so he walks in, I hear him walking around the living room and stuff like that, mind you, I'm on my phone.

He walks up to the door where I am. He looks at me. I look at him. I said, what's up? He looked crazy. And then he leaves and starts running down the steps. And I'm thinking like, why he run like that? I just didn't understand why a houseguss would be running.

And so then I stepped out the room. I was like, he left the door open. I said, why would he leave the door open? So then I walk out the door. You sound like a valley girl. And then the gate was up. Is he in a rush? I said, why did the gate open?

Because we was at one of them churches where everybody, you know, they had all things in common. So I'm thinking, it's somebody from the church that they got a key. So I call the house owner people. And I said, did y'all, was somebody supposed to come over here? And they was like, no. I said, do somebody got your key? I don't know about.

He said, Jackie, did somebody just rob me? I said, I think so. And I looked at the way. He said, it's my laptop there.

I said, it's not. And so I just didn't, I didn't know that they were getting, getting robbed. But what's crazy is, because I said,

what's up to him. What's crazy is, I said, what's up? We were dating when this happened and she called me, and the only thing I can do is just thank God

because it's like, you don't know, you are young girl. I think me being naive, being at home, by yourself, he could have did anything crazy. Then we would have been hunting. I think he thought I was nuts because he's like, why she said hi to me?

Like, so I think, I think me being naive and being hospitable, I think that actually threw him off, where he's like, yeah, let me go. Yeah, she got a pistol. She ain't scared of nothing. But they traced the laptop. He lived down the blob. He lived on the corner. He lived on the street.

So he saw them leave. So he was a neighbor. I don't know. We got tied tributt with us today. No way. I can make it without you. I can't even call my hair. All right.

Just learn the lyrics, Brunke. What you did earlier? Oh, no. He was in my backyard. I said, I can't even brush my tongue. I was like, you know what? That's ridiculous.

No, that song was one of my favorite song, and I would sing the whole song, but I would just add my own stuff. Oh, that's good. That's what you do it. You make it real impalible to you. I didn't want the song to end, so I just, you know, just wrote with you.

You got you. You got you. You got it? You got you. You got you. You got you. zone was seven minutes 37 seconds you know what I'm that story was crazy though Jackie

are you okay are you still okay I'm fine okay praise of love I'm okay I just really didn't understand but how are you today I am great I feel really good I got my holiness sweatsuit on you look fly thank you brother I thought about you be putting it on I know y'all be chilling so I love everything you'll do everything you're about you know I mean it's an honor for me to be here man I love y'all for real sure no thank you I told you earlier you and your wife's is amazing.

It's very inspiring. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thanks for being here, bro. You already know. I think Ty, I think we, you DM me about something or tag. I don't know. And I thought to myself,

I said, I want to ask, tie some questions. You know what I'm saying? Because I think you forget, you forget who you have access to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it's just like, if there's mutual respect,

I'm like, man, like that would be beautiful to have a conversation for people to get to know you to get to hear some of the insights behind what you do, what you create, but also what I shared in the DM, I was like you have such a pastoral approach to your songs that feels like it just, I don't know, like I remember the first time

you had a DVD. I used to play that DVD out because I was like it felt like you would teach and sing. And so the teaching added flavor to the song. And I don't think everybody is gifted with that, right? And so that's why I appreciate that. And that's intentional for me. to at least put scripture in there and God content. Like, it's very easy as a creative to create anything

and write about anything. I choose to like arrest my sound and my artistry to the things of God because, I mean, I had GA at a very, very young age, not like they're my babies and not my kids or something like.

But when I was with GA, we was all teenagers and kids and stuff like that. Yeah. I probably was one of the oldest ones at like 21 or something like that. And so having a group of that size.

This is when choirs was big and John P. Key was out. Has a guy walk was on. If you didn't have 100 or 200 people, you didn't really have a choir. So we had like 50, 75 people, you know what I'm saying? And so with a community that size, you can imagine the difficulties, the stories, the problems, the issues. We family, for real, the trouble. So it's like, oh, we need a word.

So I started having Bible studies. I know y'all can ask me this, but I started having Bible studies on our Monday night. rehearsals like let's just come together and let's see if we all like agree on the some of the same things because I realized we was just you know just you go to that church you go to that church we might just let's just come together we all at least believe this so I started having these things called tag sessions talk about God my mom just bought me a Dakes Concordist but I was like oh my lord you know like a theologian it was stick one that was theology school buddy just the concordid and I one of the first things

I said the GA was like yo do y'all know that When I think of the goodness of Jesus and all these, it's not in the Bible. Wow. So this is 96, you know what I mean? I was like, so I just started like teaching the Bible and like, yo, this is not in the Bible, but this is like almost apologetics, but not as far as that. So that kind of like centered my writing. Like, oh, if we need this as youth, we need this as youth.

Yeah. Yeah. So I'm not going to write about Adidas and nothing wrong with that. All the Adidas songs is great. Yeah. But I'm going to talk about what I feel like we need to hear based on what I'm hearing from this community. So I took GA that community as a tie to who I will be speaking to

and made them, you know, the one of the the one, what is that? I'm thinking of the leper. The one leper that came back to say, thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they all need the same thing. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying, I use GA to say, okay, all you must need this. Because we didn't have the context of social media. Did you say, did you say 96?

1996. That's when you started GA? Yeah. Wow. Were you born? Yeah. Okay, I was a big show. He would have been. You would have been 10. I was, I was, I was 10.

In 96? And 11? I was 10 years old. Yeah, it would have been 7. Whoa. So yeah. So there was no social media. There was no.

Show wouldn't. So, wait. He's going crazy right now. I thought we were the same age. Bro, I am 49. Oh, yeah? Yeah. And you'd be jumping like that.

Yeah. Your knees are intact. When is the last time you gave God glory for that? My goodness. Hey, God. It's the little things. You got good hips and everything. Because you jump high.

Yeah. I said this dude must have played basketball or something. I did. So I thought I was going to play ball. When I went to high school, I was on a little JV team. No worship leader. You know what's crazy? I know we got a lot of questions.

One of my biggest regrets is I haven't seen you laugh yet. Oh, same. I've seen so many gospel. artist. Every time you hear, I'm not here. When we saw each other on the plane, he was both going to Chicago, you was on a concert in Chicago, I couldn't make it, you invited me. But I was like, man, I got to see Todd Live.

Because on DVD, you look like LeBron James. I mean, you got height on your, on a, on them, on my house. It came down a little bit. Real? But not because of a, yeah, yeah, no, I'm just playing. I love, I feel like anything I'm called to do

or called to be, I'm trying not to be fearful of it because of, you know, how I've experienced it before, whether pastor or whatever, or being 49, I'm approaching it like, okay, I'm going to redefine it. That's it. I'm going to redefine it. If I'm going to be a pastor, oh, I'm not going to be no past. Oh, my, why would you?

Oh, I'm going to redefine it. You're going to be 49. You're going to be 50. You're half a century. I'm going to redefine it. I'm telling you. You look young. You look young.

I mean, you are young, but you're younger than what you are. Thank you, brother. Thank you. I appreciate that. Here what I'm about to say with a grain of salt. Okay. I got you. When I first was introduced to your music, I probably was introduced to it late because

I wasn't raised Christian. Okay. So I became a Christian in 2008. And it was one of your albums was a DVD. Everybody had on Ties, something like that. Oh, victory. Yeah. And I feel like in that time, I felt like you and Molly were creative.

sounds that I hadn't heard before. And what I've come to learn is that people that make music like that are weird in a good way. Right? 100. When did you discover that maybe I think differently than everybody, but what also allowed you to have the courage to just walk into that? Thank you for that. Always knew I was different, but in a bad way at first, how I looked.

You know what I was the skinny black buck tooth guy. So I was always, you know, teased and all that stuff. People say we look alike. I love that, bro. Yeah, I'll text you that. Yeah, I was like, yeah, bet. I like that, bro. That's a compliment to me.

But once I, my father's became the pastor of the church, and I just kind of stepped up as, you know, the, I don't want to say musical director because that wasn't what it was. I just played the organ. Yeah, I'm saying, back then. The freedom he gave me, me and my brother Thet and pauses on the drums, the freedom he gave, we, it would be like, there's not a friend like the, do, do, do.

Do do do do do do do do do do do I don't do that. No, they were like, The mothers didn't know. Yeah. The mothers didn't know and the youth was like, but things like that,

he gave me the freedom to do that. I didn't know I was weird or different until I was outside of the church context. So when I went to visit the Baptist Church up the street, my energy and my sound was like, whoa, what's going? What, y'all? You know, but at my family church

was 75 of us, all family basically, they know that's tied he's crazy whatever they let me trial and error you know I mean it wasn't like you know but when I started traveling

I started hearing or if if we opened and then a other group song I'm like well I sound I sound I sound different I love John Piqui I love the Hawks I love all the greats

I wasn't allowed to listen to any circular music only gospel no circular uh-uh get down what you're doing so I was sneak and listen to Joe Sample weather report, yellow jackets, all these jazz musicians.

And that expanded me. I'm like, oh, my Lord, I don't just want to play the standards. I don't, I'm... You're like you're in a box. Yo, yeah, and it's just me, the bass and the drums. So it's not like we programmed our stuff. We got, you ready, one, two, no clip track like they do today. We just go and play.

So if I'm going to approach these same songs every week, I'm not going to approach it the same because I want to enjoy what I do. The Bible don't just say, serve the Lord. It's their servant with gladness. So what could I do to be glad about what I'm doing? You know what I'm saying? How can I keep joy attached to what I'm doing? You know what I mean?

And not just obligation. So that kind of came from everything I do, I try to find a way I can enjoy it. But then when I found out I was weird or different, that maybe look for the Mali's and look for the others who had that weirdness. You know what I mean? Kind of try to find a community.

It's not many. It's not many. Yeah. When you first hit the NASLAS, scene and globally, nationally and globally, people started to experience your music. How was the critique? How was the criticism? Okay.

So when they first, y'all have good questions. When I first hit like a national scene, it was from a Wrigley's Chewing gum competition. I ain't know that. Really? This is in 1997. They had a, it was a gospel choir competition like Sisters Act. Okay. They came out there.

We was in the competition. First one was regional in Philly. If you win that, you go to the national one in Chicago. So we won the regional one like, whoa. And now everybody from all 50 states or however many states were involved is meeting in Chicago. This is our first like national. Like, we're going to be in front of people that's not Jersey and Philly. We're going to Chicago.

We was on it. All the cries went, whatever. And we won that one as well. After that, we got like this Prince of Egypt thing. And then we weren't just all over the churches in America. Our first outing was mainstream. First time we went out touring on all that stuff was Faith Hill, Tim McGraw, Don Henley, the Eagles.

We did like Luther Bandrosse, Leanne Runs, Gloria Estephan. Even imagining you in Faith Hill. And that's like my girl. Out of every, me and Don Henry, me and Faith, we're really cool. Like, yeah, her and her. I love them. So that was kind of like different. And so when we first got national exposure, the church didn't know it.

They didn't, we wasn't in churches. We was on these huge stages across the world. So I got snatched out of the culture of my small, four walls in the church to a culture shock of a whole mainstream people who don't speak in tongues. And I'm like, well, so that kind of shifted my writing even before our first album. Like, okay, I got to talk to them too. By the time we hit nationally in the church, I don't want to tell these stories, man.

I mean, that was 1997. You can talk about it now. You're here. That's 30 years ago. You're free from that. Because I know, I know. Bro. For sure.

Because sonically. It got bad. We were all fans of it. Bad. It got bad. B-A-D? B-A-D. When life came out, the first album,

life came out. It was like this earthy soul, Neil's soul. Chill. I called that the producer's album. The guy that produced that album, his name is James Poyser. Shout out James Poyser from the roots. You'll see him every night on Jimmy Fowler, right? Love James Poyser. That's my dude to this day. But to me, that was his approach to kind of like, you know, not tame me, but kind of like, you know, we was all over the place. He liked to simplify, just have the elements in there. He would have a loop in there, like, ding ding and I'm like

ding what's all the other stuff? So he really simplified me like you've got to simplify yourself so you can be understood by the people so he taught me the art of elements and not just everything you do live like a shit

so I didn't really I didn't not go say I didn't really like the life album but when it first it wasn't my it wasn't your baby yeah like so when we first came out with the live sound it was like well this ain't got This ain't gospel. This is like this neo soul.

And we was playing for Balau, DeAngelo, Erica Badu, Jill Scott, we was playing for, we're Philly. We was recording our album and the Root Studio. Life album was recorded at the Root Studio. We were real cool with them. So any events or any thing that came along, we was the choir for them. So our sound was very neo-soules

because we was a product of our musical community in Philly. I didn't really like that. I knew that wasn't the context of where I was going in St. Louis or Chicago. I know that they wanted, you know, Georgia. And I knew I wasn't that either, but I had to find this in between. So by the time that album came out, I think people were just like, it wasn't, you know, gospel. It just was like this.

I was trying to beat something. I wasn't. But when we performed these songs live, like, no way sounds away on the album. But when we performed no way live, it was like this to everybody. So everybody expected that calm approach of, you know what I mean? Oh, let's have time. Come to the church. Like, you know what I mean?

And we came in, I said, y'all did life. Let me do victory. That's what I said to the label. Y'all did the life. I love what it did. Let me do victory and just see how my sound would work. Let me just see how it work if I just do it. Good.

You touched on it, but I want you to teach it a little bit because I think sometimes creatives feel like moments that don't seem natural are a waste of time. Because I can imagine that even though the first album, wasn't necessarily what you wanted to do or even who you were. It's still like the Lord didn't waste it. 100%. And so I guess speak to the Lord still using those moments and those seasons where you just can't, you can't rock out like you want to, but you still need it.

Yes, yes, yes. I went into the industry like, y'all not going to change me. So I was already coop. I already worked with all these artists and all that stuff by the time was time for my album to come out. All right. No, I'm doing it. So the reason why we had such friction on the first album

Because I wanted to present it a certain way But he's like, yo, this is how it goes So I had a lot of learning to do I had a lot of humility to accept I had to realize you don't know it all You know your church You know the revivals that you go to You know the praise conferences that you go to

That'll respond a certain way But there are other ears There are other things and this is a music industry So I had to learn a lot It definitely was not wasted I was just not prepared to learn. I thought I already knew what to do. But ah, the teacher became the student in like 2.5 seconds.

So humility was the biggest lesson I had to learn and God's pacing and his timing because victory still came out. Your sound still came out. The craziness is still out there. Everybody still know you crazy or whatever. But I think it's important that, you know, to learn. And that's what I had to learn in that moment.

So that wasn't wasted at all. I learned so much to this day. You know what I mean? Like I'm used the elements. I use the things that he taught me like every other time. How can I say that? No way, like no way since you brought that song. So let it sit out.

Now, that space, let it breathe. I learned stuff, just little elements like that where you grow up in a small church, y'all just shedding every space is filled with every space. The cowboy is going to be. Do do do do do do Do everything will fill every space So I was used to that

Sonically I've always taught me I've always appreciated your approach creatively Because one of the things as a poet When I used to do my poetry workshops I used to always tell the poets Who was in there to learn That forced art

Will always sound like forced art Yeah yeah yeah yeah And your art always I didn't know you personally back then But it seemed like it came very natural to you Like you wasn't forcing anything Like I don't think this jump was random I think they jump is random.

I'm not saying. I'm saying it's random. But you can tell that's just who you were. Literally. In every genre, we see people kind of conforming to what they feel like people should expect. Yeah. Whether that's hip hop, whether that's gospel or whatever. The reason why, the first time I experienced, I didn't grow up in the church either.

I got saved when I was in 06. And I didn't, nobody didn't hand me your, all the Christians was handing me like Christian rap CDs, Christian artists that they think I would like. I know you like the Craig. You know like this. Listen to flame. Like, I was, I was that Christian. And, you know, I was hard for me to get, you know,

throw my secular, you know, hip hop or whatever. And so the first time somebody handed me, they handed me a DVD. It was a DVD of, uh, victory. That's crazy. Victory. Victory. That's crazy.

Now it's time to celebrate all that was great. And I just remember just being like, what did you, I'm sorry, what did you? Now it's time to celebrate all this. What? What song is that? I'm just asking them. I got the victory.

I know that part before. Now it's time to celebrate all what? Now it's time I'm about to do a trivia Now it's time to celebrate All that is That is what Say it I don't know

Find it Okay we found it We found it It's all banners raised That's what it said Yeah Jehovah Nisi The banner

Really? Yes He don't know Look I like the song He heard you say Jesus I love the song Did he say Jesus or not No matter

Look at one name All right Your energy Yeah The writing Yeah Just all of it together, it just felt natural.

Wow. It didn't feel like somebody was forcing anything. I think this dude is really crazy, but he's super creative. You know what? Thank you for that. And so I appreciate it. And so, like, my question is, what gave you the confidence? Thank you for that.

When I started directing on being the frontman of a choir, that was, that was a scenario like, Mary telling Jesus to turn water to wine. Like, hey, I need you to do this. Like, what's that got to do with me? My mom was the director for our choir. since I was since I had consciousness. If not her, my aunt would direct. So your family is musical?

My family's musical. My dad was on the organ and my mom was like the choir director. Then my dad started preaching and then so music and word was just, you know, always in my house. So we had you Sunday one Sunday or whatever. Like, Ty, I want you to, you know, direct the choir. I'm like, mom, I'm not directing, you all do that. I'm not directing the choir. My goal was to be the MD for the Grammys.

to be the Adam Blackstone. That was my goal in life to play for the biggest things and to play. I never thought I would write songs, sing songs, stand in front of people nowhere in my desires.

Wow, I didn't know that. Oh, nowhere, nowhere. So my mom put me in front of the choir that Sunday. I don't know what we did. Maybe it has a Kyle Walker song, whatever. And the place went up

and everybody's around me rejoicing and I'm like, no, because that means next Sunday. And it happened like that. I just kept, kept, kept doing it like, oh my goodness. So I guess the confidence came from the grounding of my family. And to do it the way I did it, I knew it would work. I don't know how to say it.

And I wasn't the only guy. How can I say this? I was playing for other choir. I was playing for other people. Like I said, we don't did all these tours and everybody. I kind of know how it goes. I know how stage moments goes. I know what people respond to.

I felt like I could discern what people need. So I always said, if you give me a chance, just give me the audience. Just let me talk to them. I'm a communicator. I like music. I like poetry. I like writing. I like drawing.

I'm a communicator. I like radio. Like podcasts. So I feel like if you just give me an audience, I can communicate with them. I don't care who they are. So my confidence had to come from that, though, because I had to get over how I looked. I had to get over what I thought. I had to get over bullying trauma and all that stuff.

I had to get over all that stuff. But again, my family, my wife, like, baby, you're fine. We ain't worried about them girls in high school. Where are you at now? Where them girls at now? You know what I mean? So I had to get over the confidence in my physical thing. But as far as my sound and stuff is concerned, I had such a movement with GA.

It was like, if we got booed Friday, rehearsal is Monday. And that whole thing just reset. Like, are we good? My strength just came back. That's good. I had a community. I wasn't by myself. That's good.

I'm pulling out of fun. I'm not being weird. Go ahead, Jackson. I call her that. It's not that one. It's not that song. It's not that song. I do have a funny story.

It's not that song. Hold on. I'm going to play it. You know, this song is like, it starts with like a guitar. Oh, anyhow? It's old. Oh, it's old.

It's not on, you know what I'm saying? We used to play it all the time. It's about blessing. Is it on victory? Or is it on. It's about blessings? Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, son of man. Bless the Lord

Son of man Son of a man Don't Don't do Don't Don't Don't Yeah

I got you Jackson I know what you Talk about I'm going to play it for five seconds Bless the Lord Son of man You can tell we some fans

So I'll tell you about that Let me Let me Let me type of it Because this I want you all to hear It for the people

That don't know This I'm going to play five seconds Did D-Din D-Din My question is It was new

That doesn't sound like gospel Right So what musical influences were even a part of you having songs and arrangements that just were different? So that song is part of the 5% of songs I did not write. Okay.

I was getting CDs everywhere I went after Victory. This is on the standout album, which came out after Victory. I was getting CDs from everybody demos, from everybody, check this out. I was like, okay. And when I had time, I literally like listen to them. I listened to all of them when I had time in the drive or whatever. I heard that song. Yeah, that song was something.

I said, oh, it's something on this. We got to contact the guy. I contacted the guy. I put my little, I put a little sauce on it, you know, musically and all that stuff. But I intentionally wanted it because it didn't sound gospel. Yeah. And I felt like we needed to expand it.

And I think after victory, all eyes or all ears was on me. So I wanted to intentionally, you know, pivot something and shake up something. Like, whoa, I wanted to intentionally do that because it's not black, white, worship, praise. It's kingdom, yo. What are we doing? Yeah. I don't know what's going to come out of me. Yeah.

You do a really good job of mixing genres and sounds. Yeah, because what we're doing? What? I don't know. I don't know what I am to be. I know I ain't no dango, Sabrina. I'm a no-no. You're a no-no?

You're a no-no. Y'all heard that when you came outside singing, no-way. He's an no-no. Yeah, he's an evangelist. Okay. I just wanted to intentionally do that. You had a question? Of course.

I got you. I got you. I'll put it. said of him, do you remember, speaking of poetry, do you remember? Oh, Lord, that's going to deviate from, okay, I'm going to say it. I'm going to say it later.

Don't forget that. I'm going to say something later. Yeah, you don't remember. It was years ago. Don't forget it. Don't forget it. Don't forget it. That jacket.

Keep on. Let Jackie can go on. In another country. Yes. Why would you do that? Why would you do that? And we got to move on. All right.

Go ahead, Jack. There's one of one of your songs, because I'm also, we're trying to gradually progress. But one of your songs, you said, come on a homosexuality! And that was everybody

That was everybody praised that song Why do you say it like that? Because it was so aggrat It was out of nowhere Mind you, I ain't been a lesbian for 12 months I'm like goodness gracious And so when I heard that song I was like, I probably would repentant

if I heard that when I was gay But I guess I'm wondering Was that a conscious effort too Or did the error kind of lend itself To that degree of both I think a little bit of both. Okay. I think the error lent itself to it, and it was intentional.

And I was, my delivery was more that. I would call it dogmatic now or militant because I grew up Pentecostal, apostolic, no earrings, no, no, just know whatever. You put that after the thing, no life. So my, I was so used to that type of talk, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know what I mean? You know, it was just normal. Because that's a wild ad list.

Yo, ain't it? And it's still on that. They wanted me to take it off a radio. Like, take it off you and put it up in, I was like, no, that's what I said, what I said? You know what I mean? And it was to start a conversation. It wasn't to condemn or, you know, through shots at it.

It was like, whoa, somebody said that in the song? No, it was strong. Yeah, let's talk about it. How we feel? What's going on? I was dealing with it a whole lot. Again, in my community, we've had counseling conversations just trying to, you know, just talk and heal and help.

And so that's where I was at that moment. Like, yo, you know what? Let me just say something and see how people who are dealing with it feel about it and see how people who feel like that's the biggest shit in the world feel about it because y'all need to chill too. And we all need to just come together and talk about this thing. So that was very, very intentional for me. And it shook everybody to me.

And I keep doing that. I'm just like, man, I'm just being me. I'm just shaking people. You can't do that nowadays. You can't, you know. And I think that's the fascinating thing about music as a medium is that there are some things that you can say that the music, uh, softens. Yeah, you know, because, because I mean, that wasn't a soft, I didn't do it softly at all. You did not, but it's, it's so much instrumentation around it that it's like, if you just say that with nothing, it lands different.

That's the beauty of music though. That's what I'm saying. Music gives you space to say things that you, you should say in other spaces, but you have to navigate the conversation. conversation differently because you don't have music as a I won't even say a crutch but as a yeah you I don't know how to say that hard conversations I always use a sandwich approach right like so bread meat bread so you hey you guys are great I appreciate what you're doing here we need to fix this because people are coming down to do but thank you guys so much you to do it so you got to say certain things with the bread yeah I'm I'm interested to know just there's been a lot of talk about gospel music

We had the whole gospel music CCM conversation. Oh, jeez. You know, with Erica Campbell here a couple weeks ago. A word. Yeah, yeah, she came. Okay, cool. You know, and it was a lot of talk a couple of weeks ago, whatever. You've been in the gospel game a long time.

Yes, sir. I know, like, I grew up in the spoken word community and Christian community. It was a time around in 2019, it started to feel different. And it felt the old days. Like, a lot of things started to change or whatever. What are some good and positive things? that has changed about, like good and negative things that's changed with the gospel world

from your perspective, you being in it. This is my opinion. Yeah. Be honest. This is not law. This is not the truth of life. This is what I think, when I think of the question that you just asked.

I feel like this sensationalism, of gospel music has increased through certain shows. You know, you got American Idol, you got certain things. So like the goal for some people is now to be on and not to be effective or to be a light or to encourage, strengthen, you know what I mean? Whatever the Bible says, sing the one in spiritual songs. That's not on our mind.

We want to be on. We want to go viral. I don't like leading with that heart. Ambition is not horrible, like fire is not. But fire in a locomotive needs to be in the place that fuels the engine. If it's in the seats, it's going to burn. I think the fire is getting in the seats in some of the gospel music mindset, how everybody, a lot of people just wants to be the one.

I think that's the negative thing. So with that being said, what stems from that tree is impotent songs, cookie cutter approach, radio hits. It's not alive to me. And like you're saying, some people have to compromise so much to get placement on these platforms because it's so political. So you almost got to do a ABC. It's easiest Jesus in me.

Oh, that's nice. You almost got to do that. Don't take my hook, y'all. But I don't like the, I don't, not I don't like, sometimes I feel from certain, from certain sounds that, It's not about Jesus. I know I sound like a pastor with a clergy collar, but it's like, yo, I actually meant it and still mean it and hold that integrity like a football.

Like, I really try to keep meaning it with all the hits of it. Hey, you should do this. Whatever. I'm doing it for Jesus. Hey, man, what you should tie? If you had this artist on, I want to mean it. When I hit the stage, I want to mean it. I want to love.

That's not priority. everybody. I don't know what ball everybody. Everybody got a different ball. Yeah. Yeah. You understand what I'm saying? So that's a little discouraging to me from the overall view of what this music should be about. From God's perspective. Good thing is you're going to get a message

of hope, healing, you're going to get God content. I love that. At the end of the day, it's God content. So I'm not mad at nobody, nobody approached nobody, swag, nobody's, whatever. If it's God content, I mean, you can't, we need more and more and more of that. To me, it seems like you're frustrated as a man of God, but also as a creative. Is it both? It is both.

It is both. As a man of God first and as a creative second, like, man. You can stretch yourself. Yo, you have something else to say. Bucco. And a different way to say it. And you got a different way to say it. No, I don't think you're being, I think that's a fair critique.

Bro. You got kids now. You're married now. You don't have been through things. Like, yo. So I hate when people. serve the system. Any system that is, I hate what people serve systems. I know there's a partnership we need to have with systems to be, to do what we do. We got to partner with YouTube to do this.

But when you serve YouTube is different. You got to partner with award shows to have your, you know, music exposed through that. But when you serve it, yeah, it hit different and I could feel that because I was in a place where I was serving it. I was in a place where I was like, yo, if I do this, I can, Yo, when I do this, an ambition, boom. So I'm like, okay, don't follow ambition. It's good to have vision and goals, but still follow Jesus. Oh, he orders the steps. Got it.

So he gives the destination, but you don't make your own way. That's good. Oh, he's the way. That's great. He's the word and he's the way. He's the destination and he's the journey. So I had to learn that. And so now I look for that and I don't, you know, I don't see that too much.

But when I talk, when I teach, I definitely do that. that because I don't, I don't, oh my gosh, I'm about to say this, but I am. You should. Say it. I'm not an advocate for the gossip music industry. I'm not an advocate for any industry. Oh, yeah, I thought just hat said I'm not for anybody, but it said I'm not for everybody. I'm kingdom first.

I try to be kingdom first. What's God's perspective? I want God optics on this stuff. Yeah, it's good. Because when you think industry first, I mean, you fight for the industry. Hey, you can't. All right. I mean.

Yeah. They say stuff about gossip music. I'm like, huh, I don't serve that. Right. They say stuff about, oh, man. Whoever. I don't serve that. I don't serve anything.

I try not to serve anything but God. Not my flesh, not my family, not my race, not my religion. First, no God before me. I try to serve God first. I try. Yeah, that's good. We all do. That's good.

Yeah. Second Corinthians, one, talks about Paul is saying that, you know, he has been a and in all of his affliction, the Lord has comforted him, and that the comfort by which he was comforted, he comforts others. And what I've seen as a leader is that oftentimes God will put you through something that you then have to communicate. So my question is, I guess, what is some of the stuff you've had to go through to write the songs you write?

What? What? It's in there. No, that's bad. Oh, my Lord. Ty, I had to go through Ty. It's so many layers of, you know, when Jesus brought Lazarus back from the dead, and he told the men lose him and let him go.

He was wrapped in all these linens and stuff, and it's like, I had new life, I was born again, but I had to come out of these layers, you know what I mean? I had layers of grave clothes on me, grave thoughts, great behaviors, grave habits. So, y'all hear the songs depending on what layers being unwrapped. You understand what I'm saying? It could have been pride in one, lust in one, greed in another, anger in another. I've endured so many things that just spill out into the music. Most recently now, I'm on like, I cut my face on a reunion tour.

We was on a reunion tour. And, bro, I was looking for, I was getting my sneakers off, like, the shelf. And, you know, we got a ladder. I'm like, I can reach it. You know what I mean? I just jump. Bro, I jump. I missed it the first time.

So in my head, I'm like, come on, bro. You know you can reach that. So I did have to put my Superman cabs on. You know what I mean? I jumped, though, got the sneaker, like, boom! Fell down on one of the, like, pull-out racks that, they split open, boy, I can see the white meat. I'm like, oh, my God, I'm not going.

I heard, slow down. So that's been, like, my word since that, slow down. I'm fast-paced. I do everything, like, and I used to pride myself on the fact. that I could, yo, the last minute, it's still done. Slow down. You're missing so much in the journey. You're missing so much you're not mindful.

You know what I mean? You're missing moments of empathy with your wife or your kids. You're missing moments of compassion with people that's around you or that might work for you or with you. Whether it's a sound man or your manager, you're missing a lot of ministry moments trying to have the ministry moment. You understand what I'm saying?

So slowdown has been my, has been my word lately. You know what I'm saying? And I learned that a life with God is a walk with him. You know what I mean? It's not flying high. You have moments of flying high. Running up, you're wearing.

Yeah, moments of running. But life with God is a walk. He walked with him in the garden. He was walking. I was missing a lot of godness because I was running while he walking. You know what I mean? So I'm just trying to slow down,

slow my pace. And then you go to when the Holy Ghost came, they were all sitting. So now I was like, whoa, it don't progress from walking the sitting. He really slow,

okay, God, how you doing? Let's talk, you know what I mean? But being present with him makes me present with everything else and everything is so much more savory conversations,

music, time. Everything is just so much more savory in. You know what I mean? And when you, you know, slow down. and absurd, you know. I want you to talk about the breakfast club interview you had. Why?

Let me add some caveat. We don't, it's going to sound good. We don't necessarily care about the, like, it's not like. And I know that. Yeah, we're like, we're. I'll say why for a joke. Yeah, but for people like, oh, because some people want to hop on it because it's, it's controversial.

We want to get underneath. You understand what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. Because you probably can answer the question better because we talked about it, but yeah. Yeah, I'm just, I heard what you said and I understood why it landed, how it landed. But in my mind, I'm like, he's a PK. Okay. He's been around church a lot.

Like, he has experiences that even if the way it landed was a certain kind of way, we still want to hear the heart of where that's coming from. And maybe because we didn't grow up in the church, I heard it and I agree with you immediately. Right. I didn't, you know what I'm saying? And I was in my context, I was in a room with people who were like-minded. Yes. I felt safe to say that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, like, so I'm being honest, when I heard people respond to a certain way, I was a little bit like, what are you know what I mean? I got it. And so, but I, yeah, I want you to. Well, like we said, when you just give them the meat without the buns, that's what I did. I just like, here's the patty. You know what I'm saying? I didn't realize how I said it.

In retrospect, I definitely would have said it with a little more tact and a little more consideration of people who don't know me. Yeah. And how I am. But I think I said it earlier. I don't serve any system.

I try not to serve me. I've been abused by a lot of systems until I realize, oh, God is not a system. Only God is God. Okay, let me lock it with God. And if he assigns me or sends me to a system, I'm locked in with him, I'm sent by him. Church is a system

or church is a religious system and we could go to the Roman capital. I mean, it's a whole lot of ways you go. I want to get y'all canceled talking about. But it's not centered around God. A lot of it is centered using God. Many will say, you know, I cast out devils in your name, in your name, in your name,

built churches, in your name, ministries, in your name, choirs, in your name, dead albums, in your name. We're going to do that. because his brand is awesome. God's brand is amazing. There's not a better brand than God. The false profit is going to use God's brand.

So it's like, yo, the antichristic. So it makes sense to throw God on everything. But when you look at the systems and how it's ran, it's not godly, a lot. I'll give you an example. My church right now needs some finances. So we got a capital campaign manager come in. Hey, September, you preach about this and you tell them.

And when you tell them, then you get your biggest givers, you have a lunch with them, you have a dinner with them, and then there are people out there who know what I'm talking about. I ain't talking about you, I'm talking about what happened with me. Get your biggest givers and have lunch and tell them we really need you. And then I'm like, okay, okay. And then on February you're going to preach this and then you have a big gift Sunday. And on Gives Sunday and I'm like, yo, like a whole game plan.

I don't want to do none of that. I understand the business side of the truth. I understand like, yo, we got to have these lights on, da-da-da-da-da. But I don't believe God called me to keep a mortgage. If we ain't going to have to church, meet me at the crib. We lost the church. Sorry, y'all. I'm not like, if God don't provide for the church, God is not a provider.

So we start going hard for the thing, for, I don't know, the extensions of God. You know what I mean? The building is now the priority for the pastor. And when the building is the priority for the pastor, his means and methods are different. So I didn't like the capital campaign guy. We fired him. I said, I'm just going to trust God.

You know what I mean? I ain't even thinking about that stuff. We gave, I say, y'all, this Sunday. Because I can't get up there and think, let me set this message up to get these people's money. Yeah. Tie. Yeah.

I'm at it. Yo. People ask. That's the track to prosperity preaching. that's where that starts. A lot of places I go to preach, whatever, put me in the office, hey, after you preach, could you raise an offering, please?

I was like, I can't. No, you don't have to do that. I'm not better than nobody in the world. I'm the chief of sinners, but that I just, I can't, I can't, I can't. So I said, let me not do that. We're not doing that. I stood up front of the church saying,

you know what we're going to do y'all since we need money? We're going to give. I want you to put extra in your offering today, and we're going to give it to the church across the street, small little church across the street. We raised like $30,000 that son I was like, okay, we can use that. Gave it to the church across the street,

small church. A month or two later, I go to transformation church because we had to sing that night and then I had to preach that morning then I had to go right back on a reunion tour. We sung that night, amazing. I had to preach the next morning

and before I got up, Pastor Mike Todd was like, hey man, you know, God told us the, you know, you got a mantle over your life. We want to bless your church. I'm like, we need that. We want to give you a church a million dollars. Thank you, Jesus.

And the church we needed was $1.2 million. So he gave us exactly what we needed to move into the new church. Like, thank you God. Yeah. So I was like, when we did it God's or when we trusted God, Ty, I'm not telling anybody to do that. When I said no to that and trusted God, it worked. Now we're on this, I'm about to do this tour. Oh, gosh.

anyway so everybody you got sponsors you got people that want to be involved in everything like hey so you know we want to we want to everybody just i just don't like using people i like loving people i don't want to bring nobody to i don't want to gather anybody to count how much i don't want to do that if it's going to come it's going to come i don't think jesus was fed the five thousand like yo y'all see these people i don't think he did that he loved them and we're losing the love for whatever for whatever it is because what it sounds like it sounds like the same thing that you just talked about me you don't like like like like you don't like like you like boxes you don't like like like you know what I'm saying yeah yeah no no no I'm not going to say structure you just like

I think sometimes and that's what I heard when I heard the critique one a lot of people like I feel like that critique of you was unfair because he's in the church right it's not like he has for forsaking the church, you have a church. I think it was the viewpoint that it also, it could, I'm just getting both sides, that it could communicate a, because you have so many people who have church hurt, or just don't even love God's church. You know what I'm saying? So it could have communicated like, oh, if he said church is whack, then that affirms why I don't need to go.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I think I understand. Yeah, I understand too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, go. I'll just be in school. I just saw the white sleeve. It was so noticeable. I could not call on you.

And to that, I would like to say, I didn't know my voice was that powerful. I've said more way more things that had to do with Jesus, salvation and all that stuff. Jesus, hallelujah, be saved, get delivered. I said way more of that. Any of them people would take ties word for it like that, they'd have been saved by now.

If they just heard me say something on the breakfast club and say, see, I knew it. I said a billion things before this moment. If I was that influential in their lives, they would have been changed. So that's a decision they already made within themselves. If they take it as confirmation, they can look at a movie and take it as confirmation. If you already set your heart against God, anything will confirm it. And if you already set your heart towards God, everything confirms it as well. Church hurt is people hurt.

Nobody says they have target hurt. Nobody say they got Walmart hurt or Dunkin' Donuts hurt. Nobody says that. It's just the church because of what we expect, you know, what we expect, you know, the place to be and all that stuff. But it's just another reason to say to me. Now, if you have church hurt and you don't want to go to that specific fellowship anymore, I understand that.

But to say, I've been hurting the church. I ain't going about God. To make that a God complex, you have a God complex. That's not. Yeah, because oftentimes people don't want to admit that they cool on God. So it's just way more convenient. There are people who I know who've had malpractice from doctors and still go to doctors when they get hurt. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, who have an operation. It's been malpractice could legit sue, but still the next time you hurt, you went to the doctors. So it's like, is it doctor hurt? Does that exist? I mean, we just, I only hear church hurt in the context of church. Yeah. I don't hear industry hurt, gossip music hurt, hip hop hurt, street hurt. Yeah.

Hood hurt. We don't hear none of that. What I was just going to say was, I think ultimately what I just heard you do is just you were critiquing all the ways in which we can do the church. Flesh. Flesh. To church in the flesh. You know what I'm saying? Which I do think that the church should have, we should critique each other in healthy ways.

Amen. Right? Because we should not be manufactured. Like your sermon should be led by the Holy Spirit. It shouldn't be led because you want to raise money. Yeah. And so I do think that sometimes we can create systems in the church, kind of how they're doing Fortune 500 companies. And it can not be spear-led.

And I think I think that's honorable. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, amen. And how much, I'm going to be very blunt because I'm with my family. This is how I talk when I'm comfortable. How much should we care about what other churches are doing or other? Because I think every church should have their own blueprint and fingerprint when Paul wrote to Ephesus. That's Ephesus.

They all had same God, but different liens. This is a great question. You understand what I'm saying? Yes. So how much should we talk about how Corinth is doing it if we're Ephesus? So here's the thing. Okay. Good.

I love this question. I love this question so much because every time I go on TikTok, I see people talking about my church. Because I go to 2819, Philip Anthony Mitchell Church. My dude. It's like, y'all talk about my church more than you talk about your own. And I think one of the reasons why is because one is profitable, to talk about churches that are popular. Okay.

It gets you attention. It gets you yada, yada, yada. But I don't think that I think sometimes the global church starts to, like, like we try to treat the global church how we should treat the local church. And I just don't think we should do that. When Paul wrote Timothy and Ephesus, he didn't write on Timothy and Ephesus to worry about what was going on the Philippa. Right. He said, watch out for false teachers.

in your church. And I think one of the biggest problems with the Christian church right now is that we're way more concerned about the global church than we are our local community. And that's why we're not making disciples. We're just making videos.

I love that. And so I think that's one of my biggest critiques. And I think if everybody's just trying to figure out how does God want me to be a disciple in my local community. How does he want to make disciples in my local community, how he wants me to pastor. You know what I'm saying?

I'm not saying you can't be blessed by other churches. Of course. But I'm saying like God came to establish your church in local context. And of course, we're the global church. But I just kind of think that people just be Can you define global? What you mean? What I mean is like like if I think global, I think the world. Yeah, the world. I think I think a church in Africa, if they're preaching the gospel, in spirit, they are united with a church in Philly who preaching the gospel. We are all a part of the global church, right? But I think God wants us to do life in our local. community. He wants us to have elders, pastors,

deacons, you know what I'm saying? Leadership. He wants us and I, I, I, I, I would even say, I would, I would even say, I would, I would not recommend people listening to prophecies. Prey. From everybody around the world. It's like, man, like God has established his church for protection. A to the men. And it's like, stop listening to people you don't do life with. A to the men. I just, I just, can you call on me? Go ahead, bet. Okay. So we had a conversation,

got to be vague, with someone who was, because I'm going to speak directly to leadership. Okay. And how that drives the way churches can function sometimes. They were talking about something that they are leading and starting and curating and cultivating. But all of their conversation around it was to do what they saw being done.

Okay. And I asked the question, I said, have you fasted? Have you prayed? And they were like, no. And I was like, you have, I was like, I think it would be helpful to fast and pray. So you have direct vision from God that you implement. And I think some of the issue is covetousness. I think that's the secret sin beneath a lot of this.

I don't, I don't have to give it speaking in tongue. So I got to make up. If you see that this. pastors sermons hit a certain kind of way that you start preaching like him. If you see that his congregation is growing in a certain kind of way, you try to figure out those strategies.

All the while, you're neglecting getting direct vision from God for your church. Come on now. For your family, for your ministry, for your podcast. And so I think it goes back to the sitting

and to the pace where it's like, just sit. Even Paul. It's like, do y'all realize that Paul went blind, got his vision, and then went to Arabia for three years, years before he ever did anything.

Come on. Talk to us pretty face. Sit. Get vision from God. And then I think the Lord blesses that. And blessing may not mean that you have a megachurch. It just might mean you have 50 people who are actually saved. Come on.

That's all. Talk about it. And that to me, when you see what works for another church and then you just automatically try to do it like that's God's new vision or word for your life is whack. Yeah. I agree. And you, everybody going to preach. reach love in February.

Did God say, I mean, yo, you understand what I'm saying? We said all that to say this. We know you say you can do things better, but we heard, we understood. Amen, amen. So let me ask y'all something. I know it's y'all, I know it's your own thing,

but we rock it right now. I spoke this Sunday at the church. I was willing to hear what y'all think about it. I'm down for correction or whatever. I said, I'm starting to, I feel like I'm starting to see the beginning. of the end. I feel like from one person's death

last week or a couple of weeks ago, we see this disruption and turbulence both in politics and religion. I don't know if this has happened like this. Maybe since MLK, I don't know where a person's death shakes both. What I mean shakes both is

confusion, dissension, division, anger, strife, malice, prejudice, race, and church and religion and in politics, you start, you're seeing this turbulence. It's like, whoa. And I think that's just the beginning. I think something else is going here and it's going to shake it both more. And then I think someone is going to come and stop the shaking for the politics, who's the Antichrist,

one world government, hey, y'all, he's going to stop the shaking. Somebody going to come and stop the turbulence for the religious, one faith, interfaithism, whatever that's going to be, and that's going to be the false prophet. I feel like these are the beginning You know, birth pangs of the red carpet being rolled out for the Antichrist and the false profit being that both pillars have been like starting to shake a little bit. What do y'all, what's y'all feel about that? Ooh. Oh, I'm sorry.

You can go first. You can go first. I got a lot of. You do? My main stuff is about false profits, but. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm with you.

I think I'm always wondering like, man, is what we're going through in 2025 different than what the Christians were going through in Rome? You know, like nobody's being hung up on crosses or hung up on sticks and lit on fire. Yet at the same time, there's something dark about it to me. It feels like I was like, I feel like there's a mass division happening. And even a mass, not even just simply within. in the church, but also, I can't explain it. It just feels dark in a way.

And I want Jesus to come back. They said he was supposed to come back today, and he did not show up. And so I'm just saying marriage that. For me, for me, for me, so I'm a person who loves studying history. Okay. So just studying history. All history, church history, you know, I'm an apologist, I'm an evangelist.

Love it. And so one of the things I've done in my line of ministry and work of just studying like cult leaders, false religions or whatever. And when I read about these times, there's times in super far history, past history, where people thought the end was near. I mean, and so, in a lot of ways, they had more of a case. Like, HILA's time or something like that? Hillers time.

Or like, you think about Charles Tate's Rough. right? The man who started the Jehovah's Witnesses Doctrine. He was a... In 18... In 1860 something. Yeah. Right? And so he was... I saw it on your page.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he was a millionaire. He owned a fleet of clothing stores. He sold all his clothing stores. He published a religious journal called the the monthly watchtower of Christ's presence. And he grew up... So he became a very popular false teacher really, really fast in America.

the point where people thought he was the Antichrist. Not only that, he predicted that the world would end. And so the year that he predicted the world being, guess what? World One, one broke out. And so not a bad version of the world ended. Yes. So you had famine all over the streets. Okay, okay. You had people poor. Okay. And so a lot of, so what people don't know is that's the year that over a million Christians, me over a million Jehovah's Witnesses left the Jehovah's Witnesses because when war was over, the world didn't come to an end. So he was like, he's a false prophet.

But then they had another resurgence or whatever. And so there has been times in history where false prophets rose up. True. You're right. It became really, really popular. And the world was in shambles. Think about like our country being in war, like war.

But let me say this. I'm not saying that that's not evidence that God is not. about the return. 100%. I'm just saying that I think in this fallen world, sometimes... 100%.

Sometimes we can not all the way, experientially know what past history, past people and past history went through. Gotcha. And so for me, I just want to just honor the word, Mark and Matthew, it says, no man know the day or that hour. 100.

Amen. Amen to that. I think. I think what I would add is that I'm not disagreeing. You think I'm disagreeing. No, I don't think you disagree. I think I know what you're gonna say. You start looking at your lips.

No, I think I know what you're gonna say because. You're looking at them like I said so. We. No, you know, come on. No, you didn't. No, you didn't say that. You don't have to do that on camera. I would say I think the primary difference between now and then is technology.

I was going to go there. So I'm glad you did. Technology. I got you. But I got something else to say. Hold on. Let it. Let it cook.

Technology has expedited the deceit. Technology gives more room and more. Like we have never seen these many profits with veils in our life. But because all you got to do is have a phone, it means that deceit and deception is able to expite. Like it's able to expect. Like that is a difference. So to me, that is going to speed up. Right. Now, that is something that I thought about and I actually agree. I agree with both both with you. Can I agree with both? I'm just adding the distinction. Can I put it both together, I think? Please. If this is birth, marriage

you have you have children. My wife has had children. The first pain ain't the birth. Yeah. The second, third, fourth, fifth one ain't the birth. You can have several contractions. That's great. During, during the hour you can see, but it's still not it. That's great. So this could be one of the, uh, contractions. Yeah. But it's still don't mean, it's not on the plan. We've been contracted for like 2,000 years. We've been contracting for 2,000 years! This is the biggest bed of everything.

But also, but also too. I try to put a butt on it. You're a burger. Also, too, I think, so this is another thing that I'll say. About that. Us starting off, talk about music. Victory.

No. And then we're on. This is underneath it, though. I'm telling you, when you, when you, when you come back with your wife, you actually just come over so we can just have a deep conversations. I'm with it. Just how we do all the time, yeah. because.

Shout out to Shant, Shantay, I love your baby so much. Yeah, Shanty. Yeah, yeah. I love y'all, y'all interview on, was it the, TBN?

TBN. Oh, thank you, bro. That bless me. Thank you, brother. Okay, but yeah, I think sometimes we can get caught up, and I'm not saying you doing this. I got you, bro, I got you.

Because I know y'all, but what I'm saying is, what I see watching on social media is people looking at bad things to indicate the world we're in, and I think that, I think that can be one of the indicators, but I think when we start

seeing revival. That's when. When we start seeing God move and like, like. We're saying that too, though. We are. We're seeing that too. We are. So I've seen stuff in Australia.

I've seen stuff in London or whatever. But I think we got to like, because the Bible says that, you know, Christ is not going to come back into the gospel. It was preached throughout the four inches of the earth. And, and technology is doing it. Technology is doing it. But I do. Just because people are not responding.

globally, to use your word. But I think, one, I think, and people won't say I'm biased because I'm an evangelist. Go for it. When I see an increase of evangelism and us not being so pigeonholes of the four walls of the church and us going outside and making disciples. I agree. I think that's when real evangelism would happen. And I think God is raising up evangelism. And so I'm not saying I know the time.

of the day. I'm just saying, like, on it. No, you're, you're... It's a sign. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You're making sense. Yeah, yeah. I do want to read a text that will also pivot to you.

Okay. Is that it's Matthew 24, 9 through 14. It says, this is Jesus talking about the signs of the end of the age, because we don't be just talking. There's text. Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death and you will be hated by all nations for my namesake. And then many will fall away and betray one another.

hate one another. We see that in the air. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. We see that in the air. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. We see that in the air. Is Timothy? Matthew 24. Verse 13. But the one who endures, meaning it's going to be difficult, to the end will be saved. You have a song called Anyhow that I love. It's an endurance song. Yes. And I love it because I am an advocate for songs that give language to suffering.

And that help you to identify like, no, this is hard. This hurt, but I got to endure. Just talk about that. Yeah. I mean, I wrote that during the pandemic. And I just believe that God just don't have. always snatch you out the fire. Sometimes he'd get in it with you.

You understand what I'm saying? He didn't, he could have, it would have been just as miraculous for the Hebrew boys to walk out the, or for the fire to stop. He didn't stop it. So there are some things we're just going to have to endure, and I love the scripture. I'm going to keep going back to the ten lepers, y'all. Y'all, y'all don't realize during this interview, I only know like three scriptures. He looks at them and he says, go show yourselves to the priest.

The Bible, these three words I love, as. they went, they were healed. He spoke the word they weren't healed on the spot. It insinuates every step led to more healing, more breakthrough, more deliverance. Like the Michael Jackson Billy Jean video. I'm sorry.

The light. The sight letter. Yeah. Anyway, stay focused. That's their creativity coming out. As you go, things heal. We wait to be healed to go. You have to learn

to walk while still suffering, while still bleeding while still leprous. You have to learn to be obedient and endure while still unfinished. What I mean by unfinished is God creates the first day is good. Second day is good. Third day is good. Fourth day is good. Fifth day is good. Six day is very good. Seven day he rested. Yo, after every day he said it's good, but it wasn't done. Yeah. It wasn't done, but he said it was good. So I got to learn to look at a day that's not done. and say it's good right now. That's contentment. That's patience.

Literally. That's trust. That's the language of anyhow. You know what I mean? I didn't clean my house today, but I did that kitchen. It ain't all done, but it's all good. That's good. So that's what I wanted to convey through anyhow.

It's not all good. It's not all done. It's good right now. Find a place where you could say, this is good. If it's good for me that I was afflicted, if I learned to be content in all things, find a space where you can look at where you are and say, you know what, it's good. He's good.

You should write a song called It's Good. Say it again? You should write a song called It's good. Only if Jackie featured me. You got some. Yeah, but your blameless ain't nothing to play with you. You slid on that album. Kudos to Jackie Hill.

Cudos. I love your album, yo. Kudos. Oh, multiple. Thank you. You slit. No, but I will say a song. A song of both of y'all will be crazy.

Yeah, yeah, we should talk about that. But I love that too because I think we often skip the suffering and go to the celebration or skip the, that's that's that's that's where you know, I was, I'm doing a tour is called We Outside, right? And my initial approach to the to the, to the theme we outside is man, the real church is activated outside the four walls. Patience, love, all the fruit of the spirit. Well, of course, in dealing with people within the four walls, yes. but for the most part, forgiveness and all that happens outside. So the real church is really outside. So I went to the scripture where I think it's Hebrews

and it says, you know, the land was sacrificed, the blood was poured inside, but the land was sacrificed outside. Like Jesus, but let's go where Jesus is outside the camp. Let's go where he is where the suffering was. I was like, whoa! I don't know if I want to call this we outside now. Because it's saying Get out there and suffer

Get out there and forgive Get out there and be patient Get out there and activate long suffering That's thank God it ain't nails and thorns But it's emotional nails and thorns And we almost would rather have physical ones Because we're so committed to ourselves and our feelings But get out there and forgive

Get out there in love Get out there and be patient Get out there and be content Get out there and serve Get out there in worship Get out there and praise It ain't going to be comfortable. Your flesh is going to hate everything about it.

But if you suffer well, you'll rain well, man. That's good. Amen. I mean, what else is there to say? That's the benediction and the doctorology. I'm glad you took it in this direction. That was a great, great conversation. I am just getting started.

I am just getting started. With my wife, we come back, we are going to chop it up with some serious Emerald Nives. Y'all is going to be dope. Y'all, check out all the things. Trivia, go to the We Outside Tour. I think it's you, Kiera and Mike Talk. Yes, in the Transformation Church.

And I got some newcomers on there, Anthony and Bree Trilla. She's going to be in your shadows. She's a rap. She's a hip-hop artist, too. I always like to give, you know, space for new people. So it's going to be amazing. Coming to a city near you this fall, thank y'all for the love.

Thank you. Bye, you, man. Y'all. With the Perrys is produced by the Perrys with support from Amanda Reed and Channing McBride, video recording audio production by Matthew Baxter and Xavier Fairley edited by the team at Tread lively artwork by hop and music by swoop thank you for listening now go with God