With The Perrys - When You Hate The Home

Episode Date: June 16, 2025

You won’t always have uninterrupted affection for the things God has called you to, and that’s normal. So what do you do when you feel like you hate being at home? Home can be a stressful and overwhelming place, one that is completely “others” oriented. Our spouses and kids depend on us. We have responsibilities that cannot be ignored. The mundane of our day-to-day lives makes us wrestle with both our ambition and our apathy. Ultimately, we often dislike “home” because it reminds us of our need for sanctification. The Perrys discuss what to do when we struggle with this discontentment and how the Lord can renew our minds to see home as a gift to be stewarded.   This Episode is Sponsored By: https://liberty.edu/Perry — Get your application fee WAIVED when you start your future with Liberty University today!   Scripture references: Genesis 2:15 Subscribe to the Perrys' newsletter: https://withtheperrys.myflodesk.com/zhfus4jx1s Join Preston's discipleship community for men: https://www.patreon.com/PrestonPerry/membership To support the work of the Perrys, donate via PayPal: https://paypal.me/withtheperrys Shop BOLD Apparel: boldapparel.shop Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I was about to sing Welcome Back Cotter, but I don't think anybody, actually. Go and give us a solo, a selection. What's seeing it? What's your shando? Nothing. I kind of just want to jump straight into the topic. Well, let's do it, Bucco. Yeah, I don't have no, I don't have nothing. I don't have nothing. I let it all out the last episode, which won't even be the last episode you all heard because we were in the same outfits for multiple episodes, so we got to like staggered it so you think, you know what I'm saying.

I'm not wondering, I'm not feeling. We're doing three, four episodes in a sitting, which is what we do. I'm not fend to go upstairs to change my clothes. I should. The aesthetic, like, because technically, when you change your outfit,

people click on it. It's like, oh, it's a new conversation. It's been a new conversation just because I got the same stuff. I don't got that many clothes. I got a lot of clothes, but I'm not fend to keep changing.

I'm not going to keep ironing. Speaking of ironing, we want to have a conversation about who the alliteration, I think, helps. When you hate your house, when you hate your home, home hatred, home hater.

Something like that. You want me to explain why? Yeah, explain why. Break down. Being off of socials, it wasn't just that, like, I kind of slowed down my pace in general. Yeah. And we, the Lord, I don't want to share all my business. I basically just took more of a role.

and making sure that I'm taking care of my kids every day. And not saying I wasn't, I'm just home all day. Yeah. I don't have an office. I don't got a we work. I don't got none of that. We wasn't podcasting. So it's like I'm here more than I was.

And I was wrestling a lot with that. And like I was bored, but I also felt profoundly useless. Yeah. I know, Theologically, being here is good, being here is holy, being here is sacred.

But my ambition, busy body, worker mind is like, yeah, but I'm not doing nothing. Yeah. Like it felt like I was being ineffectual. And it really was playing

with my identity. It was messing with my heart where I was like, I just, I don't, I was struggling with liking it here and still do. And I was thinking you,

I was like, I feel like people don't say that out loud. I think on social media, I think in podcasting and books, it's presented like wives just love being home. Yeah. Like, oh, look at me with all my kids and I just love it here. And it's just like, but what happens when you don't? Yeah.

Like what happens when you want to leave? Yeah. Not leave the family, but just not be here. Yeah, because I think a lot of it is natural, you know? I think, you know, home can be a very stressful place. especially when we have little children and, you know, not only that,

you have to take care of your spouse and your spouse has to take care of you. It's a lot. If you're married. If you're married, you know, but even if you're a single parent, you know, it's hard because people depend on us here.

And I think it's easier to just go out in the world and to work out there because it's really at our own pace. It's at our own liking. Like we can, you know, so I think a lot of, lot of it is natural. I think, I think for me, I've had struggles of just not wanting to be in

a career for my own personal reasons, you know. Earlier, not earlier, but in my childhood, I was put in a very hard place because I was bad. And I just shared with you in counseling in my, well, my therapist, that that place really jacked me up. And it's something about, being at a place where you feel like you don't have the option to leave. Where home feels like jail for you. Yeah. Sometimes. Yeah.

So home started to feel like, like, man, I have to come here because my kids got to eat. So, like, you know, or if my wife is out for the weekend, like I have responsibilities. And so sometimes it's hard to delight in the responsibilities that God is giving you when they're actually blessings. when you feel like you have to do it. And I think a lot of that plays into our rebellion. But also, too, I think that God created us not to be confound to just one thing. So I think it's natural in a sense. Does that make sense?

I think it would be helpful to discuss even what our relationship to home was growing up. Yeah. Because I think how you show up in your home as an adult, really is like the development of just everything. You know what I'm saying? And so I guess for me, home was a place of comfort, of safety, of security. I didn't, yeah, I kind of grew up in the same home for most of my life. And so I've never had issue with, I don't know how to say what I'm saying.

It's like home was good to me. It was when I went outside of home that I was touched. It was when I went outside of the house that, like, I was exposed to things that I shouldn't see. I think my particular relationship to home is because when I was at the house, I was by myself. So I was in my room. I was the only child.

So I'm in my, I have other siblings, but I was raised by myself. So I was in my room all day. Yeah. By myself alone. Fast forward. Jackie has a husband Eden Autumn

Sage August the dog and my mama that is everything other than being alone and so it can feel

like being here is overwhelming like I'm always having to talk I'm always having to communicate I'm always having to make sure if they fed if this person is taking care of do we got the groceries

I think I think I was raised in a way where I pleased myself. Yeah. Like I think being an only child where my mom is serving me and taking care of me, I'm watching whatever I want to watch, I'm doing whatever I want to do.

Home is completely other-oriented. Yeah. And so I think that's a big part, truthfully, of my wrestle is that it's a wrestle with flesh. It's a wrestle with you just, you just are selfish. Yeah.

Like, you're just selfish. And I remember when, We first got married and I tell people all the time, I felt like you jumped off the porch way before I did. What's that mean? Like, that's the Chicago street turn. I'm from St. Louis. Yeah, yeah.

So, like, jumped off the porch, I mean, like, in the hood, when you say you jumped out the porch, that's when you started acting active in the streets. Oh, okay. And so I felt like when we first got married, we were both poets. Ministry-wise. But I felt like you got, you jumped on the porch.

Immediately. And did an album. and I was just like, how did I become? I wrote the book first. You wrote the book first. And in writing the book, I had to hold that one child down. And I almost lost my mind. Like, I'm so serious.

I'm like, I hated here. Yeah. Right? And what was crazy was two years prior before we got married, I was this young evangelist who was on the west side, north side, east side, within a matter of five hours. I had my time, you know, to myself and I spent my time how I wanted to spend my time. And one thing God showed me early on, it's kind of what you just talked about just now,

is that sometimes, not sometimes, I think oftentimes when we get married, it is, it is, it is, it is not just us getting a family, getting a spouse, or getting kids or whatever. it is God doing what he needs to do to help sanctify us. It is about sanctification because I had to learn that God is not just calling me to care for myself anymore. That the nurture that I was given our one-year-old at the time, she needed it. Not only did she needed it, but God was teaching me how to be a nurturer. I knew how to be an evangelist. Yes. I didn't know how to be a nurturer.

That's good. Right? And so God was like, I'm at like the reason why it's a wrestle. It's a reason why it's a wrestle. Yeah. It's because your spirit needs it and your flesh is fighting against it. Yes, it is. And so oftentimes our flesh fights against what God is using to sanctify us the most, which is marriage, which is family. And I think that's the reason why the transition in our relationship with the home can be be difficult at certain, you know, times of our lives, because God is actually using it to sanctify us because you talk about when you were, you know, growing up, yeah, you stayed in your room and it was comfortable for you, but she was challenged none. Correct. Right.

Because even when people came out over the house, where there was parties, when it was get togethers, where was Jackie? In the room. And my mama was like, leave her alone. She cool. And so I was never, I was never at any point challenged to be social. And I feel bad, and I don't feel bad, because you got a husband. That's not. going to do that. I'm not going to be like leave her alone. I'm like Jackie, you got to come out here. That's, I'm saying. That's a part of the rest. That's a part of detention. It's like, man, give me a second. And so I think I... Come out here and help me with the people. I think being in a silo, my whole life and now having this big family is, is, it is a, it is a, it can feel like a chore.

Yeah. But I feel like the Lord is renewing my mind to see it, one as a stewardship, but also as a You know, because I've often told people, I was like, the Lord had to make me married at 24. He had to give us Eden a year into our marriage. You know what I'm saying? Like getting pregnant on the honeymoon. Because I was like, the way my constitution is set up, I wouldn't be, I don't think I would know Christ or image Christ. Not even that I do it well, but I don't think I would know him like I know him if I did

not have responsibilities outside of myself. Yeah. Because I'm such a naturally selfish person, right? And self-oriented person. Yeah, that sanctification is real. One thing I want to point out with you, though, is how when I met you, you were never at home. Okay.

Yeah, it was. You didn't even have a phone. So Preston was the type of person, like when we was friends, and I was living in St. Louis at the time. maybe LA. Every time I got a strange number on my phone, it was Preston. Him just calling me from random number. And he was never, ever at home. He was always out and about somewhere. And I think that's also a part of, Heike, the dysfunction of your life, because you lived in so many homes. That's one. So home wasn't actually safe nor secure. It was

never stable. We're always going to leave at some point. That's one. Two, your mom was a single mom. She has to work. She has to provide. She has to take care of y'all. So there's a sense where you had all of this freedom because you didn't have supervision.

And so you just out and about in the streets doing all the things and then the Laura snatches you up, gives you a family where now that freedom, it's not that you're not free, it's just the freedom looks different. The freedom changes. But the way you're built, the way you're made, the way you were raised,

it feels like restrictive. It feels like isolating. It feels like you thrive off the ability to do what you want when you want to. But now you gotta ask me, hey, can I go down the street? Da-da-da-da-da. The babies are sick.

And so I'm basically getting at how our relationship with home now is very much a development of the relationship with home that we were raised in. Yeah, absolutely. For sure, for sure. I mean, you was all in my business.

You told my whole story. But yeah, no, seriously, like for me, I lived in 40-something different homes growing up. And so to live in those, like, you know, we were consistently moving. So, you know, one minute we'll live in a suburb, we're in the house, and then the next, you know, year we back in the apartment complex. And so my mom was a single mom taking care of really four people. it was very hard at times and so

you know to even be at one place this long it was foreign to me you know to even have kids that I can raise where I can just grow

up in the house is like that's something that I never had but at the same time I did have a particular freedom that I don't have in marriage which can be challenging at times

but I think God has like I just said I think God has sanctified me in a way because he has really, really drawn out my responsibility and made my responsibility like, like, real to me. Let me ask you this. Because if we're honest, there is the, truthfully, most of us have grown up, not most of us, many of us have grown up with men who ran from their responsibilities.

Right. They wanted to be free. They wanted to be untethered. They wanted to not have to steward the children that they themselves took part in creating. They did not want to steward. Like you even have men who are in marriages but are never at home. Right. And so I guess my question is what are some of the ways that I'm trying to get at how you can identify temptation. When you don't feel like being responsible, how does that show up? man I think yes I think not just myself but the men that I've spoken to

who have a particular set of responsibilities in the home I think the way men don't show up is going and finding a silo I think a man cave is good

but a man cave to avoid your family can actually be one of the biggest detriments to your family if you use it to to avoid them because you are trying to escape responsibility. I think your man cave or your backyard, and I just had this conversation a couple of weeks ago when I passed in Philip Mitchell, your backyard or wherever can be a place where you actually neglect the call and the world.

weight that God has put on your, your, you as a husband, as a leader. And also as a nurturer. Like we're called to nurture not in the same way as a woman. But, you know, my, my, my daughters, they need the four hours I'm downstairs in my basement, in those four hours, my, my daughter needed to hear that she was beautiful. Or she needed to be comforted when she was crying, you know, And I think sometimes we can create. And I think what I'm not saying is men shouldn't have a space where they can go and be alone. Right. I think we all do.

Right. I think that's healthy. Right. But I do think that sometimes when we're just tired of talking and pouring into and dealing with emotions and managing, you know, like even with our wives. Like our wives can lean, you know, more. I'm not saying, I won't say more emotional than us. Their emotion looks different. and it looks hard to juggle at times.

So it's like, man, I don't want to deal with this. I just want to watch football all day and get away from people. I do think that the enemy can use that for you to be a present husband and father and leader bodily, but not emotionally and not spiritually. And I think that can be the problem. What's interesting, I was reading maybe two weeks ago when we were at the cabin, I don't know what I read. but it was about being, I think it was about women who go from house to house being busy bodies. And I was reading those texts and it was talking about really how there is this spirit of sloth that we are all tempted to walk into. And I think a lot of us think that because we're doing something, that means we're not still lazy.

And I think ultimately that is some of the challenge for us when we are dealing with the temptation to not love and steward our homes is that really we're wrestling with sloth. Yeah. We're wrestling with laziness. Yeah. Because truly to disciple, to submit, to train, to discipline, to cook, to manage, to organize, to clean. All of that requires diligence. And one of the things that the Lord was ministering to me about was how he was helping me see how in Genesis,

let me read it. Like the original call on the people, where is it? I can't find it, but I'm fin to find it because we could be patient. I love when you say fenda. I'm fend to find it. Okay. Yeah, I can't find it, but he basically told him to keep the garden. Oh, and to tend over, to tend it, yeah.

And it's like, that ain't changed. Like, you, you as a wife, you as a mother, this is garden tending, you know, and how when you tend a garden, when you cultivate a garden, when you take care of a garden one, it takes time. Genesis 215. Yeah. The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and keep it. Keep it, yeah. keep it, cultivate. And so I think when you tend to anything agriculturally, it takes time, it takes diligence, it takes effort, and it takes patience. Because truly, the day-to-day grind

of raising and training children and having conversations you do to make sure that our marriage is healthy and whole and da-da-da-da-da-da. Stuff like that is harder because you don't see the fruit of it as quickly. Yeah. So it's easier to go outside of the home and upload the podcast, a preach on the thing, or go to work. Like, even if you got a 9 to 5, you get in a check. You get immediate, like, reward for your work.

Yeah. And parenting, you're just pouring and planting and tilling, and you might have to wait 10, 20 years to see the fruit of that cultivation, but that's what we've been called to. Yeah. And I felt like the Lord was like, just do the day to day. this is a day to day. And that's what I've called you to do. Yeah.

And that's actually, you know, one of the curses in the garden is that tending to the garden and working in the garden, it would be hard. And I think a lot of times we don't like the hardness of it. The mundane, everything.

And as it relates to men, I think there's two type of men who affect their home negatively. Obviously, it's the man who just bounces and says, I don't want nothing to do with my family. The dead be dads. That was my daddy.

Right. That's what I was thinking about. I was going to say, Daddy wasn't there to take me to the fair. He said he didn't care. Okay. Daddy wasn't there. I love how you make fun of your trauma.

That man was not there. My mama said he ain't see me time. I was too much so. It's how you have a baby. And you're like, I see her. Yeah. I catch her eventually. Oh, you want to cry right now?

I don't actually. Okay, cool. I love you. I'm never leaving. Aw. I mean, if you die, you do. Only if I die. But the father.

So death do a spark. Will never leave me, no forsaken. Absolutely. Ha! Yeah, he's eternal. I felt that in my Shando. Okay. But people are listening.

Y'all don't know what I just did. I hate that. But anyways, there's the person, that's the, that's the man that's not there. But I've often heard that for people who had a father who wasn't there emotionally, I think that that's the enemy's second tactic. And the flesh. And the flesh. The enemy's tactic and our flesh is to make us go inside of ourselves. It's to get us so just irritated and frustrated with the mundane that our flesh really just hates waking up, taking care of to keep.

is every single day. Fixing food, having hard conversations with our wives. It is easier to actually just go inside of ourselves and just live there. Oh, I got a question. And that's a really dangerous place to be. I got a question. Yes. How does that affect one's joy? Does it make sense what I'm asking? Particularly as a man. Yeah. I have seen where when a man isn't working, that it plays a part in his sense of identity and usefulness. And there's a, there is a healthy pride that I think comes from working hard. Yeah. And so what actually happens then when someone stops doing that?

To me, you took the easy way out, which you, it's like a perverted Sabbath. You're not actually resting, right? You're not, you're just, you're just not putting your hand to the plow and doing what you're supposed to do. but I would think that that leaves so much room for all kinds of lies to, does it make sense what I'm saying? Yeah, because even with you, when you was wrestling with the man-case stuff and da-da-da-da-da, it created so much space for opposition that you would not have had if you were busy

doing the thing that God called you to do. Does that make sense? Yeah, but, you know, so what I was talking about is mainly just, you know, not being active like when it comes to just emotional needs and just talking and dealing with people because I think a lot of men deal with that. A lot of men feel like they feel justified in saying if I provide, I don't need to talk to y'all every day. Yeah.

If I make money, I don't need to actually spend time with my wife. I can go six, seven, eight hours without talking to the kids. Is that wrong? Is it right? I don't think it's right. think God wants us active. He just doesn't want us there because that's not what a relationship is. And I think that we have to understand both men and women that God is going to use us. Like I think the home is attacked so much because it is the first discipleship place where we actually

train people to go out and function in the real world. And how can our flesh and the enemies stop that from happening, it's not contact. It is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, in our, in our, in our, in our, in our, in our, in our, in our, and one thing that I think about also, too, is just Jesus. Like, when I think about Jesus's relationship with the disciples. I mean, you know, Jesus didn't have a particular home, but we have to understand how impactful Jesus ministry was as it relates to him pouring into the people in its everyday life. Jesus helped change the world not by doing a whole bunch of sermon on the mounds, but pouring into the 12 men that was in his life. And that just shows us how powerful kingdom development is when we think about how God wants us to focus on the home

and the present. And so sometimes we can think that we're not being effective because we're not pouring into the world. And it's like Jesus is like, I change the world by being intentional with the people that was in my life day to day. When I started my three-year missionary journey, it was Paul, it was Thomas, it was Peter, It was even Judas that I used to help give you all the scriptures. It wasn't the masses.

And it's like, and so if we see that God changed the world about pouring into like being intentional life on life, how much more is us nurturing our husband? How much more is loving our wives like Christ love the church? How much more is pouring into our children? And so this is the reason. And I also think the enemy really want us to fight shame at the end of our lives. because the enemy wants us to think that our legacy is out fair, but it's really here. It's really here.

And I think that's the reason why he fights us so much. And I think that's the reason why our flesh fights us so much. And so, yeah, I think back to men, I think the temptation for us, for the man who might be a provider, you know, I think sometimes when you're not being a provider, that can be a temptation to go inside of yourself because of shame. But even when you are a provider, you just get tired. of coming home and then you also have to help the kids work through a conflict. You can get tired of coming home and your wife is irritated and you got to work through her attitude. And it's like, no, like God actually is calling you to help her. Jesus.

When you don't feel like it. He's saying go to the basement when everything is good. Because if you go to the basement and you turn it on turning the TV tomorrow, the problem is actually going to be worse. It's going to be worse. And so that's what it means I feel like for the man to tend to the garden It's like tend to it even when it's hard Even when all your crops is blown away

You can't just ignore it You gotta go out there Gather those crops that blown away Replant those seeds And I think that we get tired I think we just get tired of tend Into that garden But we can't get tired

Because that's where our legacy lies Where have you found energy How have you found energy When you get tired? I think I find energy Through my homies Like healthy men like not men who don't like their family

because even like their family you can't help me it's like bro, go home you is not helping me for sure you're not every time I come around you complaining about your wife that is not going to help me

be content with mine and so just healthy men you know just healthy environments godly older men has really helped me it is very encouraging for me to walk with

a Brian Dye Eric Mason a Philip Anthony Mitch who, you know, a Ray Orlin, who seem to have very healthy marriages that are older to me and they can tell me about their struggles. Because it shows me that it's actually hope if I don't give up. Yeah. It's like, no, like, no, love your wife.

Like, love your children. Like, it's going to work out. Like, God is going to be faithful. And so I think that that has helped me to, you know, have joy and to have hope and all of the things. What about prayer? And prayer is huge. In what way? Because I think prayer for me clears my mind.

It clears my mind because this is the thing about men who go inside themselves. When we go inside ourselves, there are so many thoughts that are in our heads when we downstairs in their basement. Or when we're in their backyard or wherever your silent place is. And if you are not filling your head with God's truth, if you are not filling your heart with God's peace, is going to be filled with something. And so you have to ask God for help and you have to talk to the Lord

because you do not want to start talking to yourself. Jesus. And you don't want the enemy to start talking to you. Because when that happens, you will grow so content in this sunken place in your home that you can, you will, like, you will look up and your children might think you've died when you're actually still there presently. You're just there, not there emotionally.

And so I do think prayer clears our heart, clears our mind in a way where God is able to then speak to us, but also to give us instruction. I told you just to be completely transparent on this podcast where I was sitting on the couch and I was praying and the Lord was like, don't spend another hour in this basement. Remember? The Lord was like, go upstairs and get into bed with your wife. Like go up and then we had a great conversation. You know what I said?

And it helped me. And so now I don't run to the basement like that anymore because I know that actually like the peace that I need is actually with my family. The enemy just doesn't want me to think it is. You know what I'm saying? The enemy though don't want you to know that your daughter's actually going to say something that lift up to your whole spirits.

You know what I'm saying? And so I think for me it's just, reminding myself of the gifts that God has given me. And I think the enemy doesn't want us to be reminded of the gifts that God has given us. That's good. I got a question for you, though. So a couple of weeks ago, I told you, you know, how I just been really encouraged with you on this break, you know, of just how you've grown, just as a mother, wife, all the things, you're just really dope. And, like, there was, to me, it seemed as if it was like a very intentional. because you've always had a strong prayer life,

but a very intentional prayer life that helped you become, particularly just like a more, like you've always been a great mother, but just a mother that's just more motherly. Motherly. What does that pray, what did your prayer closet

if you could just let us peek in their prayer closet to look like for the mothers who might say, man, I'm struggling, you know? And I've seen even mothers actually that like, Jackie, what all you do? How do you make time to, you know? And so what does it look like? Well, I think with the dissolution of a lot of outside duties, that forcing me to be home forced me to have to deal with parts of me that I think were in need of development.

So, for example, if, you know, when we had a nanny, I was able to work five days a week. whether that's reading, writing, working on something, conversations, meetings. I was able to limit how long I had to be here. I could be alone and work and do all the things that make me feel efficient, make me feel important, make me feel like, oh, you're a, like I realize like I'm, I love accomplishing things. Like I get a, I don't know, that it just feels good to, have a plan, have a vision, and executed and it succeed. That's a thing for me. That's good.

So I think for all of that, for me to purposely put everything to the side to just be at the crib, I had to wrestle with that. I'm like, I don't feel, I'm not accomplishing anything. I'm just sweeping. I'm like potty training. I'm making sure y'all got dinner. Do we got enough snacks? Like, that just felt like so like, ugh. And I felt like the Lord wanted me to take joy in being here. Because it's one thing to work with an attitude. Yeah. But the Lord cares about how you show up.

Yeah. And so it was like, I actually don't have joy. I don't want to be here. Like, I'd rather go work and come back. You know what I'm saying? And so for me to have to fight for that joy, put a level of dependence in me that, like, I can't create that within myself.

and you know why I can't recreate it, because you're requiring something of me that I didn't even get. You want me to nurture them in ways that I didn't even receive. You want me to love them in ways that I wasn't even loved. It's like you want something out of me

that I wasn't even given. Yeah. And I think... Which can make it, the work seems hard sometimes even... It feels impossible. Without God. It feels impossible.

Because it's like, for me, I'm the person where it's like, you know, I think being a Christian woman in particular, it's just like you could see these mothers on social media or these mothers in church who are naturally mothering, who are naturally nurturing, who are just ooh-o-u-gaga about their kids. And that's, I think that's beautiful. But what happens when that's not natural to you because you didn't receive it? That's good. Where your mother applauded you when you succeeded.

When your mother said, no, why are you crying? Get up. That was my life. And so it's like you want me to move differently than how I was cultivated. And that feels impossible. So I had to lay on my face and still am where it's like you're requiring something for me I don't have. And this is what he did. One, I feel like I know the Lord challenged me because I was like laying on my back.

Because, you know, when you lay prostrate for too long, your knee start hurting. So I was laying on my back. And what was coming to my mind was how enroning. it talks about how the same spirit that rose Christ Jesus from the dead dwells in us. And it's like, oh, you've been thinking that you only need a resurrection power to preach. Hey. You've been thinking that you only need a resurrection power to communicate well. You've been thinking that you need resurrection, but you need resurrection power to just be a good mother.

Wow. And it's available to you. That's good. And so I started to see like, oh, like you be getting caught up on all the big stuff. It's just like, no, that resurrection power is available to you now. Yeah. And so, like, that was one. And two, I feel like the Lord was bringing to my mind the garden analogy.

Like, I just, I want you to tend. I want you to cultivate. I want you to keep. I want you to nurture the ground, like these kids that I've given you and all the things. But it felt like, Lord, I don't have, I, you ask to be like right with my right hand and I'm left hand. I don't know what you want me to do. Yeah. And what went to my mind was John 15.

Because some of y'all be saying that God talking to y'all and y'all never quote scripture. That's interesting. I was in John 15. That came to my heart. Let me read it. I felt like the Lord wanted me to pay attention to something. The Holy Spirit, I promise you.

I promise you the Holy Spirit. Like when I'm reading certain stuff and I know the Lord is moving, it's like my eyes will zero in on something. And I read, look here. Yeah, he says, I am the true vine and my father is the vine dresser.

That sounds really simple. But when you look at vine dresser, it means gardener. And the Lord was like, just abide in me. And I will garden through you. I'll do the work. I'll garden through you. And so it was just like, oh my God.

Like you, it's like what, ultimately at the end of the day for me to steward and love and cultivate my children and my home and to love it here, I need him. I need him. It's not natural. I need him.

Yeah, that's good. And also, yeah, that's really good. That's so powerful. Because also what I hear you saying is it is a particular type of struggle when you are first-generation Christian home. Yes. And it is. We was not raised by, you know, these homekeeping tight as two women.

Yeah, yeah. And for real, they had to work. Yeah. They had to do what they had to do to make sure we eat at the end of the day. You know what I'm saying? So it's like I don't feel, I don't spike my mama for nothing. Yeah. And just also just being raised in a home with a Christian ethic or just, you know, a mother.

Because what you're experiencing is you're experiencing not walking in what you've been used to your whole life, but a very real God living in you, continually forcing you to stray away. from what you've been used to. That's the struggle of the Christian. It is saying, you saved me one day. Yes. And now I have a whole life of all, this is all I've known. And because this God is inside of me, he's keep interrupting me. Yeah, yes.

He just keep interrupting me. It's like, I want to be alone in my room. For sure. I did that my whole life. It's like, God is like, no, not only did I call you to be a communicator, I called you to be a mother, right? And so one of the things I just want to say is like, our oldest daughter is so like you and like just personality-wise and it's just so beautiful to see

her grow up and knowing that she would be a mother and a in a in a in a wife one day because of how the holy spirit is usually to pour into her right being being raised by a a Christian mom and a Christian dad. And I think that's what God wants to do. Like, I think God sometimes he put us in a family where we can be the fifth, six generation of just Christian homes. But then sometimes God just wants to say, I want to start it with you. And it can be, it can, it can, it can be difficult starting that race, but it's worth it.

It's really difficult. I want to, I want to say a verse that I think is important here, particularly for women. It's Titus 2. And he begins by saying, but as for you, teach. with a chords with sound doctrine. So this is sound doctrine for women. And he says, older women, this local church, are to be reverend in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good. And so train the young women to love their husbands and children to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind and submissive to their own husbands,

that the word of God may not be reviled. What I want to emphasize is one, this is good. That's what Paul says. They are to teach what is good. But I really want to bring out the fact that the older women are to train young women to be workers at home, which simply means to be a steward, a manager of your home. It doesn't mean that you have to stay at home. It just means that there's a particular oversight and care and cultivation and nurture that a woman is called to. And obviously, the man is too. So y'all can cook too and change diapers and stuff. But train the young women to love their husbands and children, meaning it's not natural, actually. You need to be taught.

Yeah. You need to be trained. You need to be disciples in how to love your home well. So if you don't know, then cool. You know, like, I think we expect that this, I should know how to do this. Yeah. I should want to do this. And you start to feel this shame.

Like, what's wrong with me? I don't want to be a wife sometimes. What's wrong with me? That I don't want to be a mother sometimes. And I don't mean, like, get rid of the kids. I'm not saying that. I'm saying you feel like, you feel like, you should have uninterrupted affection for the things that God has called you to.

But you are a human being. You have this treasure in jars of clay. And it means that you are fragile. And sometimes your affections are all over the place. And that's normal. That's normal. So I just kind of want to kill the lie that you're supposed to be like these mamas on social media who are making almond butters from scratch.

I just want to kill the lie that you're supposed to be one of these boppas on social media making oat milk from like like God wants to mother your children through your personality that's good God wants you to be a wife with the history that he gave you all of it is sovereign and so glory be to God that you don't look like everybody else

glory be to God that you don't think like everybody else at the end of the day if you have the Holy Spirit you will be able to be the mother the wife the single mother the single father that God has called you to be Yeah, yeah, that's good. Yeah, it's good. And just for the men, I think, you know, we look at Ephesians 5 and we think that, like, we think about submission and we think about headship. But, you know, it's really, it's really teaching us how to steward the home when it says, first 25 of Ephesians 5, husbands love your wife like Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he may sanctify her, having cleansed her with the washing of the wall, of the washing of, of the, of, of the, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of. of water and of the word. And what he's basically saying is, like, live sacrificial in your home in a way that makes you forget about yourself in order to serve your home.

And so I think us serving our home is consistent death. It's just dying, dying consistently. reading bedtime stories when you don't feel like it. Helping your wife walk through something when the game is on. Like, paying attention to your wife when she says, pick that up for the third, fourth time. It is like, how can we forget about our own comfort zones? How can we forget about our own, you know, desires and wants in order to serve the people that's around us?

Because I think that's what's going to cultivate a healthy home. I think that's the tension for men as well. I think it would be helpful. We'll probably put it in the show notes for y'all who are listening to refer back to our conversation with the Ortlands. Yes. Because we as human beings are really near-sighted, you know. We're such, we're so right now people. Yeah.

where the Lord has generations in mind. You know, like when you think about how you are, when I think about how I am, I am the fruit of years of generational decisions. And so I think when you consider that the impact you make in your home now will extend beyond you, then I think that helps you to take joy

in the privilege of being here. You get what I'm saying? The Lord is, he's looking past you. He's looking past you. And so I have to think about what kind of impact do I want to leave on generations by my decisions today. That's good. And I think that's ultimately what we all have to. That's good.

That's a great word. I think we can leave it right there. All right. Bye. Peace. With the Perrys is produced by the Perrys with support from Amanda Reed and Channing McBride. Video recording and audio production by Matthew Baxter and Xavier Fairley. Edited by the team at Tread Lively. Artwork by Hobb and music by swoop. Thank you for listening.

Now go with God.