Witnessed: Devil in the Ditch - Devil in the Ditch | 4. The Robbery Theory

Episode Date: April 24, 2023

Police investigating Presh’s murder interviewed lots of potential witnesses. Twenty years later, can Larrison track any of them down? And if she does, will they talk? Unlock all episodes of Witnessed, ad-free right now by subscribing to The Binge. Plus, get binge access to brand new stories dropping on the first of every month — that’s all episodes, all at once, all ad-free. Find out more about The Binge and other podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Campside media. The bench. Five days before Prash died, one of her friends had a strange feeling that something bad was about to happen. She's asked that I not use her name. Talking about Prash's murder still makes her uneasy. It was a Sunday around noon.

The friend had decided to swing by precious house and drop off a plate of food from a church fundraiser. The day was sticky and hot, nearly 100 degrees. So when she pulled into precious driveway, she was surprised to see the back door was open. And as she gets out of the car, she feels like someone is watching her. She turns around slowly and scans the yard, but there's no one in sight. She walks up to the back door. It's open, but she knocks anyway.

No one answers. So after a minute, she walks into the kitchen. It's empty and the house is still, which is odd because precious car was right out front. So she calls out to my grandmother by name, and waits. After a minute, press strolls into the kitchen or hair and curlers. Press's friend told me that she was relieved and kind of irritated. She scolded Press saying, you can't just leave your door wide open. People will just walk right into your house. You keep your door locked around here. But of course, the warning didn't land.

Press's eyes were already on the food. Her friend stays to chat while press sheets. But still, she can't shake that eerie feeling she had when she got out of her car. She calls it a premonition. It stays with her into the next day, and the one after that. She told me she felt like she was losing her mind.

But still, she called to check in on Presh every day that week, even the day she died. And maybe this was just a feeling, or maybe she just remembers a feeling after all that happened. But what if it were something more? Remember, just three weeks earlier, there'd been a break in on precious property, and that little cottage she rented out. So what if, on Friday the 13th, five days after she brought that plate of food to brush, someone still had their eye on the place. [♪ Music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in episode 4, The Robbery Theory. I'm Larison Camping. Who murdered Prash can really be boiled down to two theories? The first is my cousin

Richard, who I just spent two days with, and the second is not Richard. I say it like that because there's one thing that all people who believe the not-Richard theory share. They don't have an actual named suspect. Again, there's no evidence Richard committed this or any other crime. And there are very compelling or real or legitimate reasons to doubt he could have killed Prash. Police said she was killed in the morning, and Richard is an atoriously late sleeper.

No one saw Richard or his car at the scene, nor found evidence that he had been in Prash's home that day. In fact, anything linking Richard would be circumstantial at best. So far, three people have told us it's not Richard. Ricky, the detective, Richard himself, and Richard's mom Charlotte. But they don't all agree on motive, opportunity, connection to pressure. You can think of it like a Venn diagram. The detective Ricky thinks it was a robbery,

likely by someone fresh new, who she'd hired before, or given money to. Richard also thinks it was a robbery, committed by someone he says had broken into other properties nearby. Charlotte believes it could be someone fresh new through her work in juvenile justice. Charlotte says the motive was anger,

though she doesn't rule out robbery as a contributing factor. Yeah, it's pretty much a parlor game at this point, but I need more than speculation or theory. It turns out the police ended up interviewing more than half a dozen people after pressure was murdered, but thus far I haven't had much luck learning who they are or why they'd come to the police's attention. So I turned to Ricky, the detective. He wanted to help me, but couldn't recall a lot of the details of the case.

I wish I could look at my stuff again. They don't like a tennis sheet of me. This dog found a key. Who's we tried it? We tried everything. I thought from the photograph it was found a key. We tried it. We tried every door, everything. I thought from the photograph it was a car key. I could have been a car key. I don't know what the crime lab people thought about that. I think her hands were positioned across her chest. The photos they're put down by her side. Okay, down their side. 20 years is a long time. Ricky knew that.

So, before our interview, he'd requested the file on Prussia's murder from the police. But to a surprise, the police wouldn't give it to him. I've been unsuccessfully trying to get it, too. Initially, the city attorney had told me they'd be able to give me an inventory of the file, and probably some of the things in it. But as we got closer, I felt my request for being denied or endlessly kicked around. And my phone calls weren't getting returned. So when I went back to Greenville in the summer,

I made it my mission to get my hands on that police file. I'd have to answer me face to face. Hey, my name's Larison Campbell. I'm a reporter. We walked into the lobby of the Greenville Police Department on a July afternoon and asked for the chief. We spoke as a couple months ago when I was in town. I'm working on a podcast.

The officer working the front makes some calls and lets me know the chief's not in. So a different officer comes out to talk to me. I start to plead my case. I would love to know investigator notes after a lot of these interviews with say like people who were suspected if the motive had been robbery. Because I don't know why they got ruled out. I don't know why these people were able to say well they didn't do it. I pull out all the stops.

It is not a closed investigation. I understand that. It's just that it's been open for 19 years and there hasn't been any movement in it to my knowledge. I'm her granddaughter. And so to my knowledge and the knowledge of anybody in my family, there hasn't been movement in it since probably late 2004, so it's been almost 18 years. You can't see it, but my eyes are very round here. Pleading.

Let me call the city attorney to say how she does it. Thank you. She remembered Precious Martyr. She'd even worked on the case. I'm going to go look for the case by myself, because I'm pretty well-known over a candidate. When I go back the next day,

she tells me she's gotten word from the chief. They'll be giving us nothing. Not even the audio recordings for the police transcripts that we already have. Well, there's still been an open case we are not given out the contents of the case file. There may be information, it contains information that the public should not be aware of. And if you're doing a podcast and information gets out that only the suspect knows, then that's not good for the case. I get that. It's also why redactions exist. I make one last attempt with the city attorney. She gets back to me

that evening while we're at dinner. They're not going to release the case. The case file is not required in the open case, so at this point, they are not willing to do that. Public records laws are different in each state. For an open case in Mississippi, as this one is, law enforcement is only required to release the incident report. That's a short summary that an officer writes right after the crime. Greenville police also shot down my request to speak to the detective assigned to the case. Their explanation, emailed to me by the city attorney, is that doing so could compromise the investigation. But I did look into Richard's claims that there were other robberies a few weeks before

precious murder and about four weeks after with a similar MO. Police weren't able to provide the exact dates or addresses for these robberies. From the information we do have, though, there were break-ins in parts of Greenville near Precious House the same year she was murdered. But I have no idea if police ever thought these were linked together, or even with Precious. One guy whose dad was attacked nearby told me that their family thought it was by someone they knew and had nothing to do with my grandmother. So who did police question and why?

Uncover from CBC Podcasts brings you award-winning investigations year round. Infiltrate an international network of neo-Nazi extremists. Yeah, granted with racist language. Discover the true story of the CIA's attempts at mind control. Their objective was to wipe my memory. Or dig into a crypto king's mysterious death and a quarter billion dollars missing. There are deep oddities in this case! With episodes weekly,

uncover is your home for in-depth reporting and exceptional storytelling. Find uncover wherever you get your podcasts. porque los bostezos son contagiosos, pero MailChimp... no. MailChimp analiza los datos de millones de correos electrónicos para ofrecer recomendaciones personalizadas para mejorar el contenido de tus correos electrónicos, segmentar tu público, entre muchas cosas más, adivina menos y vende más con IntuitimailChimp. La marca número 1 en Imail Market yña Automatización. Empieza hoy mismo en MailChimp.com. Vas a venir a tus públicos de marcas competidoras en número globales de clientes en 2020 y en 2022. And I'm not the first Campbell to get this response from police, because I'm actually not the first Campbell to try and solve this. Remember my aunt Ann, the one who spent five years filling three ring binders with research

on precious case? Well, thank God for her. I visited her last spring at her home in Tennessee. She pulled out a big plastic crate of those three-ring binders she'd filled with information about precious murder. Her journals were in there, too. As were tapes of interviews with Richard and Charlotte,

even a psychic she and her sister had worked with. One binder has some of the actual investigation materials, evidence collected, tip sheets, even a section of police interviews. It includes interviews with Richard and Charlotte, and ones with several other people whose names I'd never heard before. I don't know how comprehensive this information is because Greenville Police turned down my request for an inventory of what's in their investigation file. But this is a start. The police interviews are an interesting part. By the way, we're not using real names

because none of the people as far as I can tell were ever suspects. For all we know, they could have just been potential witnesses. And some of the people called with tips. First up is someone I'll call the informant. He told police he was in a corner store a few days after the murder. When the store clerk told him a guy had just been in there, waving around hundreds of dollars. The clerk thinks he robbed someone.

When the informant hears about precious murder a day or so later, he puts two and two together and thinks, maybe this guy got all his money from robbing and killing the old lady. This is a very weak tip. It's based not just on conjecture. Having cash does not mean you've robbed someone much less murdered them, but also rumour. The informant didn't even see the guy who supposedly had the cash, but it ate pages and it's one of the longest interviews in the file. Though that may be because the informant also happens to casually allege that there's a Greenville police officer who sells drugs. Then

there's a tipster who called three months after Prush was killed. He said Prush had fired her former yard guy for stealing, but when the supposed former yard guy comes in for his interview, he tells police that he doesn't know Prash. Never worked for her or did any yard work in that neighborhood. There's no way to know if this is true. These interviews are stand-alones. We don't have investigator notes to say whether police verified what they've been told, interviewed anyone else, checked out alibis even.

It's open end after open end. Sometimes you can feel the community grasping at straws. In one tip, a man says he heard a group of teenagers had gone into a nearby convenience store around the time of the murder, though he doesn't know which store. You heard that right. Someone called in with a tip about teenagers being in a convenience store on a summer morning. That's the extent of the tip.

But there's intriguing information too, like an occasional yard man in the area with a record and a violent temper, according to the tipster. Still, there's no indication that police ever specifically explored Charlotte's suggestion. The pressure been killed by someone she knew from the juvenile detention center or the foster care system. There's also no indication that police looked into Richard's theory that pressure had been murdered by someone who had robbed the nearby homes. Sometimes there's just a rap sheet in the file

listing break-ins and robberies. Is that why investigators flagged this person? It's not just the lack of resolution that's frustrating. It's that every name in this file introduces more unanswered questions. Who was this person? Were they connected to Press? I ran all these people by Spratlin, the Greenville Police Investigator, to see if he remembered what police had

found out about them. He couldn't remember. I'd have to fill in these gaps myself. That meant getting a hold of some of the people police talked to. Maybe they'd have an idea of what was going on with the investigation at the time. What do they remember about their interviews? Did police seem to have a person of interest in mind? They'd at least have a perspective on this investigation outside of my families.

I spent the next two weeks making calls. We're sorry, you have reached a number. I'd start with the person's phone number, often disconnected. Well, so much for those guys. Then I'd move on to their family. Maybe an old roommate or ex. We'll try one more. Sometimes I'd find someone on Facebook. I'd just realize I'm Facebook friends.

Send a message. Strike out after strike out after strike out. I'm not gonna be reached at the same time. I'm gonna be left to get a butterfly. I'm trying to walk. Yeah, that was a good thing. Hey, my name is Larrison Campbell. Summer is when the deltas swamp past becomes present.

The temperature hangs in the 90s. It's humidity, mosquitoes. Thunderstorms break out with little warning and then vanish. Your skin is never dry. During the day, people crawl from their car to their house then hunker down inside. So on that July trip to Greenville, after my stop at the police station, I took a couple

days to knock on a few doors with a producer. Again, not much luck. Eventually, we go to the address of a man who had maybe the most relevant interview. Police talked to him after Laurie, the part-time K-9 officer, reported seeing his car driving slowly near the crime scene that weekend and later at the funeral. Here's Laurie. I noted it because of that and you're just looking for anything that might be a clue. And it just, the person I saw again at the funeral came by again. And of course, one is that can be just curiosity. People do ride around and graze all the time.

It could be absolutely nothing. It could be someone also that she helped, that wanted to see what was going on at her house. It could have been a suspect. It could have been a suspect, it could have been all kinds of things, but it's something, if it meant anything, you would want to ride it down. Police interviewed him four days after the murder.

In the interview, he says he knew of Prush, his wife had cleaned house for her a few times, but he'd never met her. Still, he seemed like our best shot at getting some real information. What did his wife remember about press during that time? I hadn't been able to find her myself, and did investigators appear to have an idea of what happened in those immediate days after the murder. This house is dusty, blue clappboard. No cars in the driveway, but on the front

porch we can hear the roar of a window AC unit and a TV show on. As I'm standing on this front porch, I suspect there are a couple of reasons it's been hard to get a hold of people. Yes, it's been 20 years. People have moved, gotten new addresses, phone numbers. But there's also a dynamic here. One, I am acutely aware of. I mentioned before that I started driving around Greenville when I was in the eighth grade. I've memorized so many of these streets, not just by sight, but by feel. I can close my eyes and remember the dip in the blacktop right before my old driveway. And that bend on Bayou Road, after the columned house we used to call the mansion.

But I don't really know the streets for driving around today. Because when I was growing up, Greenville was largely segregated by race and income. Parts of it still are. When I was a kid, my family social circle was white. Most of my friends are church, my neighborhood. And the handful of people I'm hoping to talk to in this neighborhood are black. And now, as I headed out this morning with a microphone in hand and a producer, I'm here, me, a white woman looking for a black

man who might have information about a white woman's murder. Answering my knock at the door isn't just a nuisance, it could be dangerous. Historically for black men, literally life or death. So if no one answers, if no one gets back to me or agrees to talk, I got it. Hi! I'm sorry to bother you. Worked those work quarters, and we're working on a story about something that happened.

A woman answers the door. She's older, 60s at guess. She's small and wears a short, floral house stress. I ask if she knows the guy the K9 officer had spotted, except I use his name. She says he's her son, but she doesn't open the screen door between us. She seems skeptical, which I understand. It's a little hard to understand her over the AC and TV, but she remembers the murder. Says the police

questioned a lot of people, including her. Because she'd been doing work for one of precious neighbors on the day of the murder. I see it and I know it's thing about it, which I didn't know it was a matter that would be working the next morning. I saw all the police around that way. I didn't know what that happened. You know what I got? I got work. She also remembers police questioning her son. It's a tough to hear because he's been better.

He's got to have been better out of that. The woman she worked for lived just one street over from Prash. Her son had done work for this woman too. And then one was a figure in an area too. Yeah. So you don't question how all the black folks have worked at a room. She says the police talked to every black person

who worked in Wilson Park. She gave us her son's phone number and we left. Listen, I appreciate her taking the time. Oh, yeah, yeah. Bye. You too. Bye. It was evening. So we decided to wait until the next morning to call.

It went to voicemail. The next afternoon, we take Main Street past E.E. Bass. It's a pretty early 20th century school building that became a performing arts center when I was coming up. I had one line and wore several petty coats for their 1989 production of A Christmas Carol. We turned down a side street and see a group of guys talking outside an apartment complex. 3.08. Is this 3.08?

No, that's 2.22. But I like these guys. I feel like we can talk to them. Yeah, yeah. It's really, it looks like it's... We have trouble finding the address, so we flagged down one of the men. He's sitting off to the side of the group in a lawn chair under some shade trees. We have a question.

Did there used to be a house right there, like not that long ago? Yeah, you used to be a house all the way around. I mean, all the houses on this end, they've been told in down years. A long time ago. Okay. That's, that's how the problem ran into. Can I ask you if you know somebody? Yeah, it's great.

I run the name of a guy who did yard work around my grandmother's house. The man outside says a family with that name lives nearby. Go to the stop sign. Why are we down to the stop sign? If you're going to see a building on your left, then it's a house beside. Okay. All one was home, so we left a note. As we drive out, the man checks in with us. He asks if we found who we were looking for. So maybe they'll give us a call. So I tell him about Prussia's case, how it was never solved.

He pulls two more chairs into the shade for us, and then he starts talking. His name is Vashon. I think a lot of people get off on a lot of their charges around here, like all the murders we got going on around here. None of them being sawed. I don't like it. Tell me about that. I wish I could set up, I could set up all you didn't tell you about it.

To me, I feel like the system on the wish job, like on TV, you know what I mean? It's investigated. I know I got a lease three, three of my homeboys been killed. And no, no, no, no, nothing. I don't even bleed, I'd be trying to figure it out. I don't even think they try to find out. Why don't they? If we have gunshots right now, and I call the police, it's gonna take them at least 30 minutes or more to get here.

You know what I mean? So I figure, maybe they just get in the check. We ran this by the Greenville Police Department. Like the other questions we'd ask them, they declined to answer this one. But it's a perception. And when you look at the statistics that about 15% of homicides in the last 20 years have been solved,

it's easy to see why it's a common one. If anything happened to one of my kids, I mean, no, I'm not calling the police. I'm not. I need to see them. My kid is my world. You know what I mean? There's no telling what I need to see them. My kid is my world. You know what I mean? There's no telling what I do by my kids and you know, they up the street up here. What do you mean by you wouldn't call the police like you would take care of it?

Street justice, baby. Street justice. Street justice. We sit in silence for a minute. It's golden hour. There's just a touch of breeze here in the shade. And behind us, the low rumble of a kid zipping through those empty lots on his four-wheeler. Two dragonflies buzz nearby. Like when you see a lot of dragonflies, it slicks somewhere in the area.

It's nice over there. USC Bats come out around about six-segment clock. They might run you in, but they just fly what you have to fly while. I know the scale of the problem in Greenville, the statistics, but I've never felt it so viscerally. Imagine sitting in that same chair. Watching the person you think killed someone you know you love, drive by. What do you do? How do you feel? My grandmother's circumstances are so different from what Vashon is describing. The detective I spoke to told me that Prussia's case was as high profile as a greenville murder gets. Our family had resources and connections.

They're the people used to making calls and seeing results. And still, it hasn't been solved. Why would I think I would be the one to solve it? Warning. This podcast contains juicy tales of a super dysfunctional family. Brothers betraying brothers, friends becoming enemies, and a mother trying her best to keep everything from falling apart. No, this isn't a reality TV rewatch. I'm Dan Jones, your host, and this is one of my all-time favorite true stories.

Join me on a trip to the Middle Ages to meet history's most dangerous dynasty, the Plant Adjunance. This season, the plots are thicker, the ambitions greater, and the betrayals are even more devious in the epic saga of the family that shaped our world. From something else in Sony Music Entertainment, this is history, a dynasty to die for, season 2. Listen and follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Adam McCay, Director, Writer and most importantly, Podcast Host. In the first season of our show, Death at the Wing, we explored a series of tragic deaths from the wild world of 80s basketball. This season we're going back further to the 50s, the aftermath of World War II, and a series of tragedies in Hollywood. We'll tell stories of trailblazing actors who lived fast and die young. I hope you'll join us on death on the lot. We drove out of Greenville the next morning more or less empty-handed. I've known for the better part of two decades how elusive justice can be.

This isn't new. And it's not just a Greenville problem, but there are so many people in this town who feel this way. I'm talking this over with Lindsay, the producer, and our conversation drifts to Richard, as it often does. It's 100 degrees outside. You can hear our AC on full blast. You know, now you even the sense that like, OK, this guy is.

Oh my god. Oh my god. It's the guy, the one that K9 officer Laurie saw driving around the funeral, the one whose K9 officer Laurie sold driving around the funeral. The one whose mom we'd met and who we'd left voicemails for. Holy shit. He's calling. Hold on one second. I'm in the car. Let me just turn up the volume a little bit. My grandmother was killed about 19 years ago. And I think you were working in the neighborhood at the time, is that right? Yeah, it's much easier to remember.

He's hard to understand on this call, but he says yes. He remembers the murder, though not much about it. His wife, who'd done work for Prash, is now an ex-wife, and they don't keep in contact. He says the police talked to him one time. I've been looking on the floor and money to use it. No, no. Did you ever hear any rumors about what might have happened to her?

I know I'm a little bit bad. He says he's never heard anything about who might have killed Prush. And I mean, it's been 20 years. Do I really expect him to remember what he was doing on the morning Prush died? I mean, I don't. Do you remember how you found out that she had died? The police trying to question me.

Yes, how? He says he found out about Prush's murder when the police questioned him. I decide to ask him about the timeline when he drove by the house, since it didn't totally match precious death or when Laurie saw him. And that's when the conversation took a turn. Do you remember driving by the house around the time she died? He tells us he couldn't have driven by the house. He didn't have a car at the time, but that doesn't seem to be true.

That's how Laurie the K-9 officer identified him. And he talks about the car and driving by precious house in his police interview. I think they found you because they saw a blue Cadillac in the area and then they looked out the license number. That's the, you know, we have limited police resources right now, but that is one of the reports that I have. Okay. This throws me a bet. Who forgets they own to car? Is he trying to distance himself? Maybe it's his way of shutting down.

Maybe he's annoyed that reporters are digging into his business after 20 years. Or maybe he really did forget. I want to push, but pushing the issue is making him defensive. And he can tell him in the car with someone. I'll tell you who I'm talking to. This is my producer, Lindsay. And I'm sorry, I really, really did not want you to feel targeted. I think the problem for us right now is that we just don't have a lot of information about stuff that happened at the time. And who the police talk to and why they talk to them and why they stop talking to people

and what people might have seen and all of that. He seems to relax about at least he stays on the phone. Driving by the crime scene, which we know he did, could seem suspicious, but it could also be completely innocent. The first summer of the pandemic, I logged hundreds of miles biking through Brooklyn streets. One night, just south of Prospect Park, I saw a fire truck in ambulance as outside of a subway stop. I biked over just as first responders were loading a sheet-covered stretcher into the back of an ambulance. And for the next two weeks, it seemed like every bike route led me right past that same place. This driver had a reason to be in that neighborhood.

So the conversation turns to Green Bulls and Self-Thomasides. What's going on with that? It's the same feeling Vashon had. The police aren't investigating. After I hang up, I understand the driver's police interview better, and the way it quickly veers away from what happened to Presh, the whole reason he was brought in. Of course, there are reasons to believe that someone killed Presh in a robbery that got out of hand. Her purse was emptied right next to her body, an empty money on below, and we've all heard that she didn't lock her doors. She'd hire just about anybody.

But I always hated the robbery theory. There's an implication to this theory that precious openness, her belief in kids and education, the inherent goodness of everyone, all these things that made her life so full and wonderful are the same things that made her a murder victim. Still, I don't think it can be totally ruled out. I drive out of Greenville that day feeling frustrated until I get another perspective on this whole thing. Next time, unwitnessed, devil in the ditch.

on this whole thing. Next time, unwitnessed, devil in the ditch. It was obvious that it wasn't a true robbery. But you know, live forcemen were split on it. After weeks of dead ends, another investigator talks. You were trying to stage a scene, so you could look like a robbery or a burglary going bad, then you'll get binge access to an entire network of other great true crime and investigative podcasts. All ad-free. Plus, on the first of every month, subscribers get a binge drop of a brand new series. That's all episodes, all at once. Unlock your listing now by clicking subscribe. At the top of the witness, devil in the Ditch Show page on Apple Podcasts or visit GetTheBenz.com

to get access wherever you get your podcasts. Witnessed is a production of Campside Media and Sony Music Entertainment. Devil in the Ditch was reported and hosted by me, Larison Campbell. Lindsey Kilbride is the senior producer, and Shiba Joseph is the associate producer. The story editor is Sean Flynn. Studio recording by Ewan Lai Tremuen and Shiba Joseph. Sound design mixing and original music by Garrett Tiedemann.

Additional music by APM and Blue Dot Sessions. Additional field recording by Johnny Kaufman and Ambreel Crutchfeld. Fact checking by Ben Kalen. Special thanks to Emily Martinez and our operations team, Doug Slaywin, Alia Papers, Destiny Dingle, Ashley Warren and Savina Mara. The executive producers at Campside Media are Josh Dean, Vanessa Gregorioides, Adam Hoff, and Matt Shere.