Witnessed: Devil in the Ditch - Lady Mafia | 6. The Moment of Impact

Episode Date: December 6, 2024

In the finale of Lady Mafia, Sara’s high wire act implodes. After her biggest investor hires a bigwig lawyer to track her down and get his money back, Sara is cornered. She turns herself in and faces the shitstorm. So why isn’t she behind bars?  Unwrap a huge holiday discount on NordVPN by heading to nordvpn.com/binge Plus, with our link, you’ll get an extra 4 months free on the 2-year plan and it’s risk-free with Nord’s 30-day money-back guarantee. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Visit The Binge channel on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe at the top of the page or visit GetTheBinge.com to get access wherever you listen. The Binge. Feage our true crime obsession. The Binge. A heads up before we get started. I just wanted to let you know this episode has references to suicide and addiction.

I never know what I'm going to get when I talk with Sarah. Sometimes she'll be in the middle of telling me a story when she flubs the pronunciation of her own name. And they go, are you Sarah King? And I said, excuse me, Sarah King. I always say Sarah. Um, they say are you Sarah King? Okay, hold on a minute.

I have struggled for months to make sure I say Sarah. You just called yourself Sarah. This just feels, holy hell. This just feels like an alternative universe with his two Sarah Kings, this Sarah and this Sarah. And which one of them again? I never know. Other times, she'll suddenly admit to something she's been denying for months.

So you've never been threatened? No. Well, Ronald Richards also said that you told him in Zoom calls that people had threatened your life and that you were afraid. Two different things. Not people I owed money to. People who owed me money. You know, this is one of those nuances that drives me crazy.

Just tell me the story. No, I mean, it's not really a nuance. I asked you specifically, did someone threaten you? You just said no. And now you're saying yes. So which is it? I've met tons and tons of conversations with people who had threatened my life

and said, I'll kill you, I'll kill your family. Even after this whole thing went down, I would get weird, weird things sent to my address, my home address, like Batman stuffed animals and all sorts of weird stuff. So I know they're out there. I know they can watch me. These guys have been in prison for 20 years.

They're mafia, They're real mafia She told me that she wasn't talking about McCabe or Quinn here. This is some new guy and Occasionally she'll just play stupid Do you think now in hindsight that once you started gambling this became you know, whether it was intentional or not This did become a Ponzi scheme. What's the definition of a Ponzi scheme? I'm telling you, there are times that I lost my shit. Anyone who lived through Bernie Madoff's whole unmasking knows that a Ponzi scheme is when someone uses a new investor to pay off old ones. By our last interview, you can hear it in my voice.

I was tired of the runaround. I'm almost at the end of this story, when I'll sit down with all the facts I've laid out for you and try to figure out what this all means. When Sarah hooked her biggest investor, Laurent Reiss, it was the beginning of the end. Laurent had invested more than $10 million in King Family Lending. Money that Sarah herself has finally admitted she wasn't actually lending to anyone. So yeah, they were false loans. Absolutely.

That's true. I did false loans. I used the money to try and win back other money. Absolutely. While Sarah might have pissed off some people in the O.C., Laurent was the one that would take Sarah down. He called in an attack dog. That Beverly Hills lawyer, Ronald Richards. So I told her, like, you don't understand, like, once I'm on somebody, I

become obsessed with them. I only have the most love for you, Sarah. And that is to prevent you from stealing from anybody else. If you can't gamble, there'll be no more victims. You know, it's like the gambling creates your thievery. Ronald called the Wynn Hotel and Casino. He told them that their will was bleeding stolen cash all over the casino floor. Within seconds of me telling the Wynn's general counsel, she's a fraudster.

They cut her off, 86'd her. We're back, coming full circle. It was an evening in November 2022. Sarah was in her villa at the wind taking a bath. I was literally up to my chin in bubbles. I was unwinding from a day of playing. It was like an infinity pool that would just pour over and you don't know where it's going, but it's beautiful.

Sarah had a bad feeling, but she was going to enjoy this cocoon of safety and luxury for as long as she could. Somebody was pounding at the door. Sarah's dog, Cool, it was barking and barking. I didn't answer, and then they called, and I answered the phone, and they said, we're right outside her door, can you open it? Sarah put on her robe and opened the door.

Hotel security was waiting for her. I knew all the guys who came in my room and they were mortified for me. And they just said, I said, you know what guys, sit tight. I have a lot to pack. They would pour me champagne while I was packing. And they were like, we'll do a discreet car for you. We asked the wind for comment and they told us that she's been barred from Wynn Las Vegas since November 2022. They declined to comment on why exactly she was thrown out or how much exactly she lost.

In fact, they wouldn't even say she'd been kicked out. They just said she'd trespassed, like she wasn't living there at the time she was 86-ed. The Wynn did say that Sarah losing 10 million is an inflated number, but would not give an exact amount. You might be thinking, that was it, the end. Maybe you're thinking that Sarah will be escorted out of the Wynn Hotel in handcuffs. That she'd end up sitting in a cop car for a trip downtown. Blue and whites competing with the glow of the Vegas strip.

But no, it would take a lot more to stop Lady Mafia. From Sony Music Entertainment, this is Lady Mafia. It's a story about going from lawyer to lawless, living high and blowing millions. I'm Michelle McPhee. This is episode six, the moment of impact. Hey, binge listeners, it's Josh Dean here. You might remember me as the host of Chameleon Hollywood Con Queen

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Sarah said she was offered a private car to leave the win, but that night she didn't know where to go. I called John McCabe actually, I'm like, what the fuck do I do? I'm just like, what do I do? He's like my only person I have, like at that point. He's like, go to Resort World. He's like my only person I have, like at that point. He's like, go to Resort World. At this key moment, when it seemed like Sarah was finished, she headed right across the street to another casino. I have all my luggage. I actually have to bring in my own luggage, which is very unusual.

And I have my dog. Sarah didn't know if this casino would even let her in. I go to the front and I talk to a host there who used to work at Wynn and I was like, this is what they kicked me out. I don't know why. And I was like, this is what's going on. So would he buy her line? And he's like, that's okay. I'm enrolled in a blackjack tournament. I've got you a suite upstairs. Go put your stuff down. Sarah must have seemed like she could stand to lose a bit more money. And he goes, I don't really care.

You're fine. You're good. They put me in the room, huge like three bedroom suite, and I dropped my dog off and I go straight down in 10 minutes to the Blackjack tournament and I win. Resorts World did not immediately respond to our emails requesting comment. Sara said she won 50 grand that night. At this point, who knows what her real balance was and where that money ended up. When it all came to a head in Las Vegas, and I actually had no money left, it was very, very stressful. I went to casinos and I said, you know, I'm

a major player at the win. Can I have free play to try out your casino? That's kind of how I restarted everything. They gave me $10,000 free credit to play and if I'd win, it would be great. But Sarah was completely alone. There wasn't a soul she could really level with. I couldn't call my family. Nobody knew what was going on. And I'll tell you, it was a really tough time. It came down to, if it wasn't for Kula, I don't know if I would have survived.

What do you mean by that? I mean, I really, I thought about killing myself many times through this process. The only reason I didn't is because of Kula, my dog. The only reason I didn't is because of Pula, my dog. At this point, Sarah was technically still married to her prince, Cameron. But their marriage was crumbling. Or maybe it's more accurate to say it was exploding. Cameron was in direct communication with Laurent's lawyer, sharing what he could about Sarah

and her business. Sarah said that Cameron told her he'd stay with her if she made a recorded statement about his innocence. Cameron was right next to me and said, I'll stay, we'll figure this out as long as I don't get in trouble. I said, fine, I'll take the heat. I'll figure it out. I'm a lawyer.

Like, I'll handle it. By the way, we asked Cameron if he had asked her to make a recorded statement proclaiming his innocence. He said, of course not. But I do think it's worth hearing Sarah's version of events here. That's the whole thing with Sarah. She doesn't just tell a lie. She builds a whole story, a whole world.

And then she goes and moves into that world. She seems to believe it and feel what she says, even if it never happened. Basically he said, I'm going to ask you a series of questions and you act like I'm not involved. And so he recorded me saying certain things. And I said, if that's what it takes.

He said he was coming back. He was at my house for like a week or two. And he's like, we're going to work on all this. And then one night he's like, I'm going to CVS and he never came back. It was really, really sad. He said he was gonna stay and he didn't. He just used me.

A friend of the podcast reading an email from Cameron. I left because how could I even look in the eye someone I trusted with my friends and my life who lied to me and chose her addiction over our relationship. It was a betrayal I couldn't accept. And I was scared because I thought to myself, if she could go that far in her lives, what else could she be capable of? Cameron didn't just leave for CVS.

He went to Morocco, a non-extradition country, meaning they don't have an agreement with the US to hand over suspected criminals. At that point, the only instinct I had was survival. I needed to leave the environment that constantly reminded me of her and the trauma so I could begin to heal. I was also terrified that she might manipulate me again or use my name to rebuild trust around her. Sarah wasn't just facing rejection from Cameron.

She was losing her place in Vegas, too. I'm calling every casino in Vegas. I have every general counsel's name and I got her 86 from every casino. I have pictures of her gambling like someone sent me a picture. I called the casino and I tell tell Sarah you're not fucking gambling anywhere. Okay, I would tell her that we're cutting you off I should get kicked out of each one I'd call her and say you see or I text you. You'd call her every time she got kicked out. Of course. How was your escort today? To let her know that I was on top of her. Because it's not illegal to tell someone you're not gonna be gambling, I'm gonna cut you off.

That's a legal threat. It's not extortion saying I'm gonna prevent you from gambling the victim's money away. And she took your calls every time? Sometimes she was mad because she'd get embarrassed. You know, she'd yell. She's like, do you think that's gonna get the money back if you get me kicked out?

I go, well, we're not gonna lose any more money. I told her, like, I'm gonna cut off all the things you like to do this was a series of not threats a series of actions I told her your days of gambling in Vegas are over I will make sure no casino allows you to ever wager a dollar Sarah was working in overdrive. She was relentless. According to Sarah, she was still trying to win the money back. She said that it wasn't all gambling.

She was working on a new kind of deal. I was actually making deals with Casino, so I was doing live poker streams with Resort World, making poker cool again We checked with resorts world to see if Sara had another kind of business deal on the works as she claims We haven't immediately heard back Just kept making more contacts more contacts in Las Vegas of these big people and I'm trying to do deals with hotels and It was all coming together and I probably could have fixed everything if Ron Richards didn't fucking put the articles out there, but whatever he did. On February 11th, 2023, Ronald Richards filed a lawsuit against Sarah on behalf of Laurent Reiss.

And he got on social and he tipped off some folks in the media. By the end of the month, Sarah King started making headlines. Vegas Swindler accused of stealing $10 million for epic shopping spree. Caviar and Chanel. The Lux Vegas Lifen of accused scammer. Newport Beach Attorney accused of stealing more than $10 million from friends, business partners to live lavish lifestyle in Las Vegas. Six-month gambling spree at Wynn, Las Vegas.

Accused Vegas con woman's assistant tells all. It's a mind-buck. The news would soon reach the powers that be at Resorts World. They didn't even know I was staying with them. I was getting my makeup done at the salon there, as I did every day. And the security team comes in and goes, I was getting my makeup done at the salon there, as I did every day. And the security team comes in and goes, Miss King, like, you need to leave the property. I was like, well, my shit's upstairs and so is my dog.

And they said, what, you're staying with us? I said, yeah. It wasn't until later that a friend showed Sarah that her name and face were in the news. I was like, oh my god. And so it was from that point on I was like, I had so many irons in the fire, like I got cut out of everything because of this article. I asked Sarah why she remained in Vegas. Even then. Well, no, I stayed in Vegas because I had no more money. So that's real, and that's true.

All my cash was gone. I lost it. I lost, that bad. Eventually, Sarah found her way back to LA. It just was time to come back. Sarah was in a dark place. She was addicted to alcohol, alcohol, and gambling. And she wasn't the one to tell her parents what had happened.

They found out watching the news. I was, you know, hyped up on the alcohol and trying to crawl my way through this problem. They would text me and say, you know, what's this on the news? And I just ignored everybody. She felt like she couldn't talk to her family until she sorted out this mess herself. Her husband had bounced. Her so-called friends and business associates weren't about to help. But I then I realized, so this is probably what March, I think. And I'm like, I need

to go to rehab. Like this is I'm not okay. Like I'm not okay. Something is very wrong if my mentality is where it is. So I went to rehab. The Black Death is coming for our Plantagenet heroes in the new season of This Is History, A Dynasty to Die For with me, Dan Jones. It's the story of warrior King Edward III, to toilet. Join me, Dan Jones, on This Is History, A Dynasty to Die For, available wherever you get your podcasts. The following interview is being videotaped at the Dade County Public Safety Department in Miami-Dade County, Florida. And sir, would you identify yourself? My name is Rollie, I'm proud to serve.

In 1976, a man in Florida tells a cop he has a confession to make. But instead of becoming his victim, I became his confidant, one of the people closest to him as he recounted and was tried for his horrific crimes. From Orbit Media and Sony Music Entertainment, listen to My Friend the Serial Killer. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts to binge all episodes now, or listen weekly wherever you get your podcasts. Sarah had checked herself into rehab. I tell you what, actually. So, it isn't horrible. It was really, it was a fancy one in LA.

But the kinds of problems Sarah was facing didn't just stay at the door. When the well started to go dry, she then hid and went into rehab. But I had people in the rehab send me pictures, so I knew she was there. Ronald Richards is pretty cynical here. I mean, they told me at the rehab

it was medication and drinking. That I don't know, I don't have her medical records. And I don't know if that's real. People love to say, I have a drug problem, I have a gambling problem. Criminals always think that's an out. Knowing Sara for all these months, I think her problems were real. But people at the rehab tracking her, taking photos, giving Ronald Richards information, was not a recipe to get better. But people at the rehab tracking her, taking photos, giving Ronald Richards information was not a recipe to get better.

They were very rude to me, a lot of the people. And I'm just like, really? Like, I, you know, it was a big fight. So I'm, I have my dog with me and somebody snapped at me and said something, one of the people who worked there. And I don't, I don't deal with that. Like I'm not, I'm not a bigger person by any means. I'm able to snap back. And so I did and I told the head of the rehab like this guy shouldn't be

making me feel unsafe and shouldn't be judging me based on certain things. Here's the thing. If you go to a substance abuse treatment center, you have the right to confidentiality through HIPAA. And so I actually said, I'm leaving. I'm checking myself out. And when you check yourself out, they put all your stuff on the sidewalk and they don't give you a chance to call on you, but they have nothing. You just have to shut the door. And you're like, I'm sitting in the canyon in Hollywood on my box of clothes with my dog. And my cell phone is there's no there's no service where

where we are. And I'm like, how am I gonna the fuck am I gonna get out of here? And there's like coyotes howling and my poor little dog is in my lap. I have my moments with Sarah. But I have a lot of empathy for her, which means I like her. But as we say in Boston, you can't shit a shitter. So a lot of the time she infuriates me because I know I'm being fed half truths and bullshit subs but she just won't admit it. At this moment, when she can't even go to rehab without people trying to get a piece of her, I don't know.

My heart kind of breaks for her. And I texted a driver who I used to use and I said, I have no money. I'm stuck here in Hollywood. I have to get to my apartment. And he came and picked me up. He knows everybody knows and I take care of everyone, but they know I'm good for it. Eventually, I will get it done. And he picked me up and took me to my apartment. And that same night, I went downstairs from my apartment to Tessie, the restaurant, and had a bunch of wine because I was, you know, just over it. And yeah, it was like the next couple of days where I realized I got to get the hell out of here. Like this is not,

this is not going to turn out okay. You know, this is not okay at all. Her apartment door had eviction notices all over it. I was just mortified. I thought I could be kicked out any minute. Are they going to kick me out like the wind kicked me out? I mean, after everything I went through, it was just really, really tough. She knew she couldn't stay. By that time, Sarah reached out to her parents. She hadn't spoken to them in six months. I finally returned a text to my mom saying,

you know what, there's a huge problem. There's a big misunderstanding for everything. Please don't believe the media. Please talk to me. And so what happened is, is my mom got on the phone. We talked about it. Like I said, I explained everything from start to finish about the past three years of my life.

She basically said, OK, I'm going to, you know, I'll get you an apartment in Irvine just to get you close to home. So it was actually my parents who found this studio apartment and had me move in. You know, my dad drove up to L.A. He paid for the movers to drive my stuff down to Irvine. And from then on, I've just been with them. But even though her parents were taking care of her, they didn't necessarily believe her. It was traumatic for me because there's no trust right now. They don't know what to what to think, if I'm saying the truth, if the media is true. And so basically it just became a day by day of me telling them the whole entire story of

which I've told you, proving facts that I alleged. That was around the time when I first met her, not as a reporter, but as a sympathetic ear. It was then I gave her a piece of advice she wouldn't forget. Honey, you got to turn yourself into the feds. I didn't mean like that day, but she did. It all started with my mom saying like, if you didn't do this, if you're not at fault 100%, then you go to the FBI. I was like, take me drive me go now. So she drove me to the FBI offices I was like, take me, drive me, go now. So she drove me to the FBI offices in

Orange County. I thought she would call a lawyer and make a deal that way. But I later learned she was too broke to pay for one. She drove to the FBI headquarters, this giant imposing behemoth on Wilshire Boulevard in Santa Monica, but they wouldn't let her in. Sara just showed up at the FBI office like, hello, FBI, it's me, Sara. I mean, who was this woman? There was no warrant for her arrest. She is a lawyer.

Sure, the FBI had gotten a call or two from her victims, but the way I understand it, despite her lofty moniker, Lady Mafia, she was not high on their radar at the time. There's the elevator has to be, you know, you have to be called up by the elevator. There's nobody working. There's no like, reception area. It's just like, you can't get up. So I went there twice. Sarah figured out another way in. So I wrote a letter to the attorney general and I said, Sarah figured out another way in. So I wrote a letter to the attorney general and I said, here's my situation, here's my

case, I need help because this isn't true and this isn't, you know, I started pinpointing my arguments of the case. And she got a response. The FBI reached out like three days later, four days later, and they said, come to our offices, come meet with us and so we can talk about your case. Sarah showed up at the FBI field office in Orange County and met with the suits on what cops call Mahogany Row. I went in, I thought I was gonna get arrested.

I was terrified, terrified. And they're like, we have no intention of arresting you. And so the whole story, which is what I've told on this podcast. And they told me you need an attorney. And I said, I can afford one. So they appointed a great attorney. I have the best attorney. I love him. And they said, you know, we'll get your attorney pointed and we'll go through this process. Because I said, I don't want your machine guns coming to my house. I don't

need the whole hoorah. I just let me know. I'll show up when you need me to show up. And that's what happened. Sarah has told me that she's given them the same story that she's told us. We have no way of fact checking that. The FBI isn't about to confirm it. What I do know is when a federal prosecutor finally drew up a criminal complaint on wire fraud and money laundering charges, it was described by the government this way. King lending purportedly provided short-term high-interest loans to celebrities, professional athletes and other high-net-worth individuals, secured by the borrower's own assets, including designer handbags, watches, luxury automobiles, yachts, and earnings from guaranteed

professional sports contracts. In other words, the bogus loans. They weren't super friendly the whole time, but they are very smart people and they understand the situation and they understand what happened, I think. In the summer of 2023, Sara made her initial appearance in federal court. I saw her dressed in head-to-toe Dior with red-bottom Louboutin shoes. That June, she pled guilty to those wire fraud and money laundering charges. So they, I pled guilty, because I mean, I am guilty in some respects,

which I'm just owning the whole situation. But yeah, no, I took responsibility for a lot of it and I didn't trust a jury to come down the right way. So I would have faced probably a lot more charges had I taken the trial. So I just decided, you know what, let's just cut our losses and I'm not 100% innocent, so let's go. Infamous is celebrity gossip, but smart.

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She was ready to talk, but then she got cold feet and admitted, I really don't want to get involved with her anymore. It felt sincere, like she'd had enough of being on Sara's roller coaster. And even if she was ten grand poorer, she didn't have an inner to pursue exposing her former friend. On the other hand, another person said she'd only talk if she got paid. She wanted to be repaid the thousands she said Sara had stolen from her. Needless to say, that interview didn't move forward. A few, like George Polo, sued, but not all of those folks wanted to talk either. It's painful and embarrassing to be swindled by a stranger,

but I think the way Sarah befriends her marks makes it really hard to talk about. Sarah got tight with a trauma surgeon and her husband, who told the Daily Mail that Sarah conned them out of their life savings. When I asked Sarah about this, she denied that it was their life savings. Then she said she tried to settle with the couple, but they couldn't agree on the amount Sara owed. When we reached out for comment, the surgeon responded within hours, writing,

We do not want to be part of any of that. We have moved on. I've been trying to get to the bottom of this story for months. I am still not sure how Sara got away with it. Why did it take so long for the Wynn to figure out she was gambling with stolen funds? High rollers' income is supposed to be monitored by the casinos. Any suspicious activity should be reported to the Financial Crimes Division of the Treasury. Some red flags should have been waving around, right?

And actually, the Wynn is currently facing a lawsuit in a case that sounds eerily similar to Sara's. A, quote, problem gambler lost millions in investor money on the casino floor. The victim's lawyer is going after the casino directly, alleging negligence and unjust enrichment against the company. Asked for comment, the win said, the complaint brought by Mr. Shefsky is entirely without merit and we look forward to addressing it in court. When we spoke with Laurent's lawyer, Ronald Richards, he said he wasn't

interested in going after the casinos. My clients would love me to sue the Wynn. Everybody always blames the casino, but the casino is providing a service, okay? They're not providing daycare. For the Wynn's part, they claim that Saurer provided various documents, but will not comment on what and when. Saurer maintains that they never asked her for anything until they were just about to kick her out. Ronald Richards told us that she did provide documents, but they were fakes. The wind did do diligence, of course it did. Ronald thinks after Sara serves her time and she goes back to working, then he'll be able

to collect money she still owes Laurent. Make no mistake, her life is unless she just really does nothing which I think she she's too young to do nothing. She's going to have to deal with this like I don't think she's gonna work for somebody if I'm hammering her check she'll probably be self-employed and again I don't know she may get cute and try to put the business under someone's name and I'll sue that person. You know, I don't know what she's going to do. She first has to go to prison and then get out of prison. We're still, this case is taking

longer than I thought to get her sentenced. Sarah's first sentencing date was supposed to be back in July of 2023. It was then pushed to January of 24. The third date was just around now as I'm recording this, October 21st, 2024. I was planning to go with her that day to the Orange County Federal Courthouse in Santa Ana, ready to see her get taken away in handcuffs. She told me just in case she was watching Orange is the New Black. But that didn't happen. Before I tell you what did, let me level with you. When Sara's sentencing kept getting postponed, I started thinking about why.

She'd pled guilty more than a year ago. Why wasn't she already sentenced? I started thinking about why. She'd pled guilty more than a year ago. Why wasn't she already sentenced? There could be a bunch of reasons she was still a free woman, but I kept circling back to one. Maybe, just maybe, Sarah King had information

that someone in law enforcement found useful, and that was keeping her out of an orange jumpsuit. So I wasn't totally surprised when I got an alert on my phone that a document had been filed in her case. I was driving out the time, so I beelined it home and opened my computer. And there it was, a sign that Sarah could be talking to the Feds. They put it a little more officially. Defendant and the government are engaged in ongoing discussions regarding matters that

may significantly impact defendant's sentencing. Bottom line, it looked to me like the feds were saying they were still working out what information Sarah was giving them and how valuable it was. So they needed more time to figure out how her intel would impact her sentence. Ronald Richards told me he thought Sara should get four years in prison, but there's always the chance that Sara could get far less.

That is, if my hunch is right and she's giving useful information to the feds. We won't find out until next year. The sentencing is now scheduled for the 5th of May, 2025. The wait continues for George Polos and other victims who got ripped off to see if Sara gets a slap on the wrist or if she's behind bars until she's in her mid-40s. And for now, Sara is free, kind of. She'll have another Christmas at home with her family, but in another way she's trapped,

unable to move on. I'm just tired of waiting. I can't get a good job right now because of the situation. There's no way. I'm trying to start some businesses with some people who love me to death, which is great, but I can't actually pull the trigger on anything until this is is great but I can't I can't actually pull the trigger on anything until this is over I just I can't so I just want to get on with life and this is just stalling. She got fired from her job on the sales floor at Nordstrom's even Ronald Richards felt bad about that. Like a crappy job in retail like for her compared to what she did before and then she she kind of made her

feel better that she'd go to work every day and start earning some money. And then they fired her because they saw someone reported her on the story that you did and other reporters and they said they don't want her working there and I felt bad. Because I think everybody's entitled to redeem themselves. So where does this leave us with Sarah? I think we know all that is knowable here. Sarah might think she can outsmart us all, but like I said, you can't shit a shit a. She clearly idolized the Mafia, said she was going to make a

living selling shady loans. She defrauded investors. I'm always left wondering how much of this was her plan. Sarah, of course, has an answer for that. OK, so essentially like this was never my intention. The outcome is not my intention. I didn't start this whole idea with this plan to do what happened. I actually had a legitimate company and I wanted to actually make money for everybody

and support my lifestyle. It was because I lost on the first couple of loans that I decided let's use a different method to get the money back and the interest. And so I tried the method, it started working great. It was wonderful. I paid back Laurent several times. So I made a wrong decision

because I was so desperate to fix the situation. Like I never in a million years would think to hurt somebody that way. Looking at it another way, Sarah was just not that good at running a business. She didn't do the accounting, didn't keep track of the loans or how much money she was spending or bringing in. It doesn't seem like she was really detail-oriented in that way. But you want to know what Sarah was really, really good at. Gaining people's confidence. And once she had their trust, she also had their wallets.

Whatever Sarah might have intended, her skills at getting people to trust her. Her willingness to lie, that makes Sarah a con artist, whatever else she might want us to believe. Sarah told me this experience has changed her. But like everything with her, not in the way you might expect. I would say that I'm a lot more shrewd. I don't, I'm not going to give into anybody's pleasantness or, you know, being my friend. I don't care if you're a friend or whatnot. It's business is business is my new attitude. Before I tried to make the whole world happy

and everyone, you know, win-win. And now I'm just worried about me winning. And that's the truth. Sarah still says that she plans to repay people and she says she's not afraid of whatever might come next. The best is the judge is going to say, you know what, screw it, dismiss the case and that's the best case. Unlikely. The worst case is going to be time, prison time. And then, you know, just the, I'm going to lose everything, right? So I lose my licenses for everything I have for, and my whole life takes a huge

change, a huge shift. And I don't have a plan yet for what I'm going to do, but I know I need to make a certain amount of money to take care of a lot of people. Only thing I'm worried about is being away from my dog, honest to God. So it would be my time away from her. Again, I'm not scared of it. It doesn't worry me. It's probably going to be more of a vacation than what I live now, in all honesty. Vacation is one way to look at it. Another way, it's kind of like going back to rehab, only this time she won't be able to check herself out. One of the last times we spoke, I asked her what she wants people to take away from listening

to her story. She of course wants you to know she's not a con artist, that a lot of men influenced her in the wrong ways. But she said something new, or at least that she hadn't said to me before. I wish somebody would have told me one time in my life that it's okay to back down, it's okay to fail, it's okay to stop.

And I never ever was told that in my life, so I kept going. And I wish I had found that in my life, just the okay to fail. and I want everyone to take away from this is it's just, yeah, it's okay to fail, it's okay not to be the best, it's okay not to be the breadwinner or to have all the money and yeah, I guess, I guess that's kind of it.

But I'm not a con artist, absolutely not. Entertainment. It was hosted and reported by me, Michelle McPhee. Odelia Rubin is our lead producer and wrote this episode with a little help from me. Catherine St. Louis is our story editor. Sherrod Morris and Jonathan Hirsch are our executive producers. Sound design and mixing by Scott Summerville. Theme and original music composed by Hansdale Shi. We also use music from Epidemic Sound, Blue Dot Sessions, and APM. Our associate producer is Zoe Kolkut. Our fact checker is Kendall Fulton. Our production manager is Tamika Balanzkolasny.

Special thanks to Steve Ackerman, Emily Rasek, Jamie Myers, Ally Ally Kilt, and Corey Sesnick, who plays Cameron in this episode.