Wolf and Owl - Bonus Email Episode #16

Episode Date: June 11, 2021

We tackle… boxers vs Y-fronts, the long bollock - fact or fiction, the perils of changing room showers and a happy turnaround in Tom’s rocky relationship with Leon. Plus we answer email questions on what to chat about when meeting a celebrity, dealing with sarcastic comments and having pressures to conform. Thanks for all your messages - keep them coming at [e-mail] Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Fuck their censorship. Let them see the whole thing. They stay dressed to kill. Never sheep's clothing. Dark enough to turn the sun to the moon. You'll see nothing. All you hear is a huff, a puff and a...

Expect killings. Red spilling and flesh ripping. Impressive in it. The death bringing its head spinning. Just kidding. Every word in this song

is about two grown men dressed up as a bird and a dog. Right, so I'm recording, Tom. Are you, um... How are you feeling about doing this? The man's feeling hot, yo. You look good today. You know what time it is, Ron?

You know what we're about to do? What? Slip inside the bonus episode of the Wolf and Owl podcast. Bonus episode of the Wolf and Owl podcast. Tom. Yo. We're doing this at 7.30 in the morning because we've both got stuff on today.

Mm-hmm. I want to ask you this question. Hit me. Do you feel differently about talking to me knowing that I've not got any trousers on right now? Yeah, I'm with you, baby. I haven't got any trousers on either. Do you feel different?

Because I'm going to be slightly nervous about logging on to this with just boxers on. Are you a boxer guy or a Y-front guy? What sort of boxers do you wear? Tight East? 7-42 is already putting the fuck in a couple of body blows. No, I'm just asking what kind of knickers you wear.

I'm a boxer briefs guy. So what, tight boxers? Yeah, I guess, yeah. Yeah, like jockeys. Yeah, same, same, same, same. I need to be held into sort of like, I need everything held into place. And also, if you get a good strong one,

they can act like a bit of a Spanx kind of vibe, can't they? They can take like a sort of cut of millimeters off your tummy. Yes, I mean, I've not experienced that. If that's what I'm experiencing now, then I'm fucked. I'll tell you what I experience. I experience some of the letters of Calvin Klein

being obscured by an overhang. What I noticed, right, is the Alvin Cadillac is really expanded. Everything else is normal size. But yeah, I think Calvin Klein

is the most overrated box of shorts on the market. Can I tell you something? I 100% agree with you. Yeah. First of all, they don't look amazing. Secondly, their quality on them is shit. The quality is terrible.

And also, they come too high up the leg. Yeah. I like the shout out, massive shout out, Under Armour. Under Armour boxer shorts are a game changer. I've never worn an Under Armour boxer shorts. I'm going to order some, because I'm, listen,

I'm always in the underwear market. Ron, let me tell you, you want to get the long ones. I'll send you the link. You want to get the longer, down the leg longer ones, because then I'm going to ride up and give you,

run a sweat, you know, the scrotum sort of vibe. Even though, I mean, you don't run, that happens. Mate, but let me just... We still sweat down there like runners, don't we? Yeah, mate. It's like a pool of sadness.

The one thing that we've got in common with athletes is the sort of looking exhausted and sweating profusely. From our bollocks. Yeah. But, mate, it's a really nice blend of all the nice fabrics. And it just really, it's like, it's like doing your bollocks a favour.

That's what I'd say it was. It's like literally going to them. You know what? I actually respect and care for you. You've done a lot of good stuff for me. Somebody's pitching an advert. No, I'm just saying. This is what I imagine it would look like.

You walk into a room and they've got some poor bastard dressed as a scrotum and it's like the advert is you talking to your own testicles about how you're going to give them a treat by getting them under armour boxers and they're going thank you so much

Tom for doing this no listen I think you deserve it I've loved you guys from when I was a little boy it's like putting your John you so much, Tom, for doing this. No, listen, I think you deserve it. I've loved you guys from when I was a little boy. It's like putting your John and your Betty in a hammock and just saying, look, you got this for today. Just chill. It's funny you talk

about hammocks, because I bought... Not funny. It's just a link, to be honest with you. Oh, fucking hell. Wow, Hydrate again. This arsehole. I've just done a rowing so i was looking for um for different uh boxer short brands yeah and i was looking for something that i'll be honest with you i was looking for something that you've just described you know super comfort you know a little treat for the old testes and i found what they

called sax boxer shorts, right? Right. And one of the things that was like one of the taglines, not the taglines, but one of the key advertising points for these boxer shorts is they had a patented, possibly patented, ball hammock. What? Which is like this, yeah, which is like this kind of,

I bought them just to see what this ball hammock was like. Are they good? It's just got this separate little bit to kind of cradle your... It's like having a pair of boxer shorts and they've added a little treehouse for your nuts, is how I would describe it. Like where a squirrel would put them. Yeah, exactly right.

Yeah, exactly right. You know what? We get to an age, right? Because, yeah, we're both, you know, 42. I'm 42. You're 43. Nearly 44. Right?

Early 40s. We're both in our early 40s. But you know what we're coming into, right? Because basically once you go past your 40s, everything slips downhill, right? You know what situation we're getting into now? Basically, once you go past your 40s, everything slips downhill, right? You know what situation we're getting into now? We're getting into long bollock,

which is where our bollocks start dropping more and more. Is long bollock a thing? I'd always assumed it was just a comedy trope. Is it a thing? No, man. Like, go down the gym, have a little butchers in the showers. Don't obviously look, like, proper. Sorry, is that where you've, like, verified this fucking thing?

Is it you've actually looked? You've gone around the changing rooms at your gym and sought out old men's bollocks to see if this theory is actually true. No, I wouldn't go around. But no, I'm like you, right? I thought, is this a medical bit of life? Or is it just something that fucking Lee Evans or Frank Skinner said in, and we've all jumped on board with that fucking vibe, right? I can tell you now, it's a thing, mate. Okay.

It's just, by the way, this is not a, before anybody asks, I've not got an issue with Tom looking at men's bits, right? My question to you is, I've seen, we've all seen bollocks in our time accidentally i've got to be honest with you i think in a gym changing room people might do well to be a little bit more sort of have a little bit of more modesty in a gym changer can i just say something quickly right and this is a shout out to um to women like women compare their body parts and talk about it i mean like they're more open about you know problems stuff. We're also sheltered around things. Like I'd love to walk up to an old man and just say, excuse me,

sir. Um, at what time in your life did you get long bollock? Yeah, fine. I'm, I'm happy to talk about long bollock to an older man. What I don't need is,

is actual visual evidence. I'd be, I'd be happy to say to him, can I just ask, do you have long bollock that's even creepier and he can and he can say yes what i'm not gonna say is i'm really sorry i don't really know you do you mind showing me so that i know for certain you're not lying what i'm saying is you can have a little cheeky look every now and again like and i'm not saying

a cheeky like like you know but just go look around and go, Oh, no. Yeah. And if someone says, this is, this makes me very nervous now. Why I'm slightly worried about is, you know, if somebody's somebody like you, uh, happens to be conducting this, you know,

who sort of has a look to sort of fill out whatever survey he's conducting that week. What you've got to look at it like is this is, this is the difference between me and you. You are a man of like means. I'm a man. I'm a man that doesn't fill out a chart while looking at different people's testicles in a gym changing room.

Yeah. Well, you've got to look at the gym changing room. I like the DeLorean from back to the future. Right. You're looking at your future bollocks. Right. Think of all the great things that Marty McFly did from going back and forth

in future. Right. Yeah. This is your your this is your time machine so what you've got to look at is like how do i construct how do i look after my balls now in a situation that in like sort of six years time for you seven or eight years time for me where they're going to be in fucking in in the best shape they can be listen i know it's a valiant attempt to make looking at older men's testicles in a gym change room valiant. And I, you know what?

I respect what you tried to do there. And I admire you for that. But I am just not going to do that. Have you got any friends who are a bit older? Yeah, yeah, I do. I know people that are older. I wouldn't be comfortable enough

with them to ask to see their testicles you don't ask you engineer a sort of like you know a game of tennis or

racquetball where you have a shower after and then you just have a look there you probably feel more comfortable having a look there

so I say I say to one of my older friends hey you know how long we've known each other I've never even said the words

racquetball before would you like to would you like to have an experience with me where I suggest racquetball, we go and play racquetball, I demonstrate all the abilities of somebody who's never played racquetball before, and then when we're getting changed afterwards,

you'll notice I'm going to be really creepy. Do you know the creepiest thing? But this is where my mind was open, right? I joined the David Lloyd not so long ago, before lockdowns and all that shit and the pandemic. And I'm in an area where I don't really know many people. I've not made a lot of friends, probably because I'm sneaking around looking at people's bollocks.

But this is one day I'm having a shower, right? I'll get my suds on in the gym. And a guy that I've never met before. Hold on. Can I just interrupt? Sorry. Can I just interrupt you a second? When you're using a gym shower, do you go barefoot or do you wear sliders?

Barefoot. I've had Verrucas before. And once you've got Verrucas, you can't get them again okay but but still think of other people and and it's not just and it's not just about verrucas tom what you're walking through a fucking man sludge on the on the bathroom floor i i cannot if i haven't got sliders with me if i forget them or whatever at a gym shower but i mean not that this is going to come up. I don't think, I can't imagine a time I'm going to go to gym ever again. Right. I won't shower.

Really? Yeah, I can't. Would you go and do a full day of work in the hot sun if you've had a big workout that morning as well? Well, the truth is, mate, that's not come up. I've never worked a full day in the hot sun. You know what I mean. No, I know what you mean. But I'm not being facetious.

I'm talking about like, well, okay. So when I used to teach, I used to go to the gym in the mornings before school. It never came up because I always had my sliders with me. But if I didn't have my sliders, I think maybe I just wouldn't take a shower. That's more disgusting, isn't it? Yeah, I think so. I always wash my feet and then dry them with the towel. I do too.

But when you step, it's just something about you walk on that floor. I can just feel it. I feel the residue of a thousand dead skin and stuff yeah it's just i can't it's a bit like you know when john snow in game of thrones thrones is stuck with all those bodies on top of him um anyway sorry i interrupted you i'm getting my suds on i'm having a shower yeah yeah and uh this this guy comes to comes to the door of my shower, and he says, oh, how are you doing?

And starts chatting to me. I haven't seen you down here before. So I'm naked, obviously. But he starts a full-on conversation about the area, about the gym, about things to do around, like restaurants and stuff. We have a proper full-blown conversation. Did it occur to you that he might be in the middle of his own server?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, he was about my age, if not a bit older. Okay. So he says a little chin wag. I'm like... How were you stood? I was sort of...

Well, yeah, sort of like with my back to him, but sort of like sort of looking over my shoulder like one of those sort of old pictures. Like in a prison? Yeah, kind of.

You know, like the old tennis girl picture where she's sort of like looking over her shoulder. Oh, yeah, where she's scratching her arse. The Athena poster. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A bit like that sort of vibe.

Yeah. And, I mean, a couple of times I sort of gave him a bit of side boob and sort of side sack. As a treat, as a treat. Well, no, just because more than anything, I couldn't stand in that one position. It was starting to hurt my neck. Yeah, sure.

So I've got to stop being coy here. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's sort of, if anything, I was sort of like, he thinks he's going to, you know, it felt like I was flirting with him, just sort of that way. Anyway, but he has this full-blown conversation with me, right? And I think that's a bit strange, whatever, you know.

It's completely, not strange, Tom, completely unacceptable, okay? It's completely unacceptable. But anyway, carry on. Right. Then, right, so then I leave the gym. I just sort of get my, you know, have a shower, leave. You know, go back home.

About two weeks later, I bump into a gimp. It's exactly the same thing. He comes in the shower, da-da-da, showering. Yeah, I'm showering. He's just sort of leaning against the shower. He's naked this time as well. Do you know what I mean? Yes.

So we have this sort of conversation. It's so fucking weird. Anyway, I'm like, yeah, but this is, he's probably a friendly guy. And obviously it doesn't really mean anything to him.

It probably, you know, it didn't, you know, it doesn't mean anything to him. I don't mean it like that, but like it wasn't a big deal. I don't want to make a big deal out of it.

Cause locker rooms are funny places. You talk to like red nap and you talk to a lot of football guys and sports guys they've got it's a very it's a different they've got a different understanding of that environment and this guy used to be in the police so you know i was like maybe that's just he's just very comfortable with his body and he's you know and he's accepting of other people's bodies uh anyway right so we have this long chat um and he leaves and he goes and gets ready i get ready and this morning i think oh you know what i'm gonna go and um i'm gonna have myself a little uh breakfast at the gym uh shout out david lloyd they do a great breakfast um so i queue up get my breakfast and i see him chatting

to a couple of other guys i go over to chat to him right rom and he completely fucking blanks me like i'm a dirty little secret from the showers i go hey man how you doing all right and sort of what goes to sit down he just sort of looks at me weirdly and then his mates are like you're right everyone's a bit like who's this guy and then i start sort of say like you know oh yeah it's lovely down here and all this sort of thing and he's like oh yeah yeah cool he looks quite like who the fuck is this guy and then i'm like um oh look mate and then i sort of it becomes a bit weird and it becomes a bit frost sort of like like i'm like oh look mate and then I sort of it becomes a bit weird

and it becomes a bit frosty I'm like this is strange and I said oh I'm the guy from the shower he definitely recognised you right yeah yeah yeah I mean he'd seen my face I mean you know

definitely but I said to him I'm the guy from the showers don't you recognise me with my clothes on you didn't say that in front of the other people yeah I laughed

saying it you know what I'm like I like a joke and he went yeah yeah okay mate yeah yeah and he sort of they all looked a bit dismissive uh and i just sort of sat there for probably about five minutes sort of like waiting for my food to come and then actually sort of went because they were sort of talking but it was around me they weren't talking to me um and uh yeah and then i basically just went i said oh you know what actually i've got to make a phone call so i would have made a phone call and then I basically just went I said oh you know what actually I've got to make a phone call

so I went and made a phone call and then came and sat at my table on my own and I had my breakfast quite a sad it's quite a sad

ending to that story did you ever see that guy again yeah I saw him a couple of times lurking about chatting to other people in the showers

did you ever confront him about it no he never really talked to me once upon a time I saw him in the swimming pool and he was just like

we were swimming at the same pace. Is it possible, do you think there was some sort of code maybe there where the first time he spoke to you, you were naked, and the next time you were both naked, and there's supposed to be some sort of progression there? Maybe there's a possibility he felt a sense of rejection. This episode is brought to you by Secret.

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Something is coming. Kong. godzilla they can feel it fight together it's human or face extinction godzilla kong the new empire now playing only in theaters i mean like maybe you did something in that shower situation that made him feel like you'd knocked him back do you mean or he was just Or I was just like this thing that he liked just for himself. He liked to have his shower friends. He liked to have his cafe friends. I'll be honest with you. The fault there lies quite a lot with you as well.

What? If somebody spoke to me in the shower when I was naked, the idea that if I then saw them again, I would fucking make a beeline for them and go and talk to them. I don't know. That is incredible to me, right?

Yeah, but we had quite a lot in common. We both liked the same football team. We both liked West Ham. So what? So what? So what? The guy that has talked to you while you're fucking in a shower.

I'm sorry, mate. Look, we had quite detailed conversations. We talked about Chiquitos, the Mexican restaurant. Yeah, yeah, sure, sure. I don't care what you talked about, Tom. You can't talk to somebody when they're naked like that. Yeah, but the way I saw it is, I thought, look, me and you, the construction of our friendship

was at the most vulnerable time of doing stand-up, right? It's where you really are, you know, and people see your strengths and weaknesses. The only probably way to be even more vulnerable was completely naked. So I thought, oh, actually, this could be the blossoming of a very good friendship. Wow.

You and I have got very different interpretations. You know what I would say if that happened to me? Oh, wow, this could be the blossoming of a restraining order. Anyway, I don't go down that gym. Actually, this is something else I heard is that

another friend of mine, because I made some other friends there and people I play golf with, someone told me that actually, a while later, he got into the swimming pool naked. What? Yeah, that's true. My friend told me that.

Okay. This guy sounds like it. And that's the guy that you tried to be friends with. He rejected me. How sad is that? That's the guy you got knocked back for a... For a friendship. For a mateship. Okay, should we do some emails, my brother? Let's do it, my brother.

This is... God, can you tell we're already in such a different place to the last one, aren't we? Yes. Can I just quickly do something, actually? There's a bit of admin to do here. I'd love you to, I'd love you to Tom. I need to do,

I need to do a big shout out to Leon, uh, because I, you know, a couple of weeks ago I went in on Leon, um, and, uh,

to be honest with you, I would say that you went in on yourself there. Yeah, I did. Yeah. Tell him that story. That was, that was one of the most embarrassing things I've heard in a while.

Yeah. Uh, so yeah, but me on Leon, no one came out of that situation very well. And actually, you know what? I thought Leon came out all right, actually. Anyway.

Yeah, go on. What happened, Tom? Leon reached out to me. In a very funny way, actually. I put the story up on my Instagram, but they reached out. Very comically, whoever's running your social media sites, shout out to you guys.

And you know what? From this situation, they've reached out, given me some breakfast tokens. They've given me three breakfasts, so I get three hot drinks and three breakfasts. One of those were which I'd love to pass on to you. We can go for breakfast together at Leon. Okay.

I mean, look, I'd love to do that. Yeah. If I get a chance, I'd love to pass on to you. We can go for breakfast together at Leon. Okay. I mean, look, I'd love to do that. Yeah. If I get a chance, I'd love to have breakfast with you, Tom. And you can get whatever. I think you can get like a porridge or one of their egg pots and a hot drink. So, yeah, you can get one of... Is there any part of you that feels that this is a bit tragic? That if you're so angry, now they've sort of appeased you.

In all fairness, Ron, I've just told a story about trying to make friends with a guy who tried to groom me in some showers. Yeah, okay. Do you know what? It takes a big man, because you went in hard on Leon. They've come back to you, and you know what? Are you apologising to Leon? I'm apologising from the very bottom of my soul

and saying, yo, Leon, I will now, every time I go into your stores, I will turn around to your staff who work there and say, by the way, you work for an amazing company. And thank you. What an incredible lie. No. Can you imagine if you were working at leon just trying to get him with your fucking day and some geyser comes in orders a an egg pot whatever tells you that he's got a voucher after you've put it through his cash

and then And then said to you... Insist on telling you some heartfelt message. Like, it's all right, we've got to serve the next person. No, listen. I want to tell you this from the bottom of my soul and the bottom of my conscience. You work for an amazing company. Yeah, okay, thanks. It's quite packed, the shop.

It's breakfast in Leon at Westfield. The busiest time of the day. No, I need to shake you by the hand or at least fishbowl you. Okay. Well, look, that's great. It was funny though wasn't it the fact that um yeah yeah they did get in touch i liked it um okay them and crispy cream have all reached out so yeah also by the way i know crispy cream follow uh follow you on instagram but they literally got no time for me now so well i don't know't know. Maybe that's got to do with this 45-minute rant you had about their name.

God, don't do the noise. Right. This is from Ella. Ella, Ella, Ella. Dear Lisa, Romesh and Tom. I love the podcast so much. Romesh and Tom are a perfect duo. So this is sort of addressed to Lisa

actually. And I laugh out multiple times an episode. I'm starting to re-listen to the old episodes and laugh as much as the first time. I'd really like to know what you would prefer fans of yours to ask about, talk to you about, if they can't do it in the street. My instinct is to say I really love your TV show, podcast, your appearance on blah

blah blah. But part of me thinks it's a boring conversation starter and could make the comedian feel uncomfortable and embarrassed. Would you prefer fans just to ask you about your day or something else entirely? Keep up the great work. I hope your family's all doing well. By the way, I would absolutely buy

all of your merch if it was available. Ella. Tom. Number one, Ella, me andon are sitting down next week to go through this merch designs and stuff i've got some pretty sick designs that i'm uh i'm really looking forward to sharing with him um so yeah well why are you talking like we're about to drop a grime out yeah so yeah get ready for that fucking fluster and bluster, baby. Listen, I'll tell you something, Ella.

Number one thing, so I had a little nine holes of golf last night, and one of the worst things happened. So I was playing with my mate Thorpey, and the fucking, these guys, instead of, the worst thing you can do if you see someone you might know or whatever and this is nothing to do with celebrities is these four guys

just decided to they were playing in front of me in golf and they just stared at me the whole time which is absolutely fucking off-putting when you're trying to

play a game that you're shit at anyway it's lit they were just gazing at like just staring and then pointing at me or whatever

and then at the end when we got to the bar one of them came over and said oh sorry mate we thought it was you we just didn't you know we didn't and number one i'm probably one of the most distinctive people and the fact you know i'm not hiding anywhere and then i was like well you could have just said something on the fucking third hole because i was it's genuine i i just felt so tense and on edge with these guys just staring at me. And they were quite sort of like rough and tough looking guys. So I'd say the main thing is I just think, come over, be polite. Shout out to people in Bournemouth who came over at the weekend. Very polite, very lovely.

And I think just be yourself. Have a bit of a laugh, have a bit of a joke. Just say what makes you feel comfortable. If you're comfortable and having a laugh, it makes everyone comfortable. i think the worst thing you can do is try and uh think too much about it you know i uh i agree yeah i i agree with that i i i'm it's really difficult for me to to um basically the reason i'm sort of hesitating and being all like this is that last night I was at this gig and I came on Unlisted at this gig. And this girl came up to me and she's obviously like a really big fan. And well, the reason I'm saying that she's obviously a really big fan, she came up to me and said, I'm a massive fan.

Like you're my favorite, favorite comedian. She's really effusive in her praise to me and it was really really nice and if you're listening it was such a nice thing that you said it was such a lovely you said some some lovely things and i'm really grateful i just got so embarrassed that i felt like i almost made her feel like she she she wished she hadn't said it to me do you mean i feel so bad about it but it's like it's such a lovely thing to hear but i also found it such a difficult thing to to process or to react to in a i don't know i just found it but i was really glad she said that so i guess i i'm you know this is not massively helpful to you i guess what i'm saying is just something just be honest you don't have to be like uh if you feel like that and you really

want to say i really love this, that's great. But I think just be yourself. Tom's right. Tom is right. You know what I do, Ella? Yeah, go on. I always just treat people like I've known them for 10 years. Okay.

That's what I do. When I'm in a situation where someone I idolise or thinks amazing's there, I just sort of jump off. I think, well, you know what, instead of going, I just make them like, you know, that I've known for ages. Yeah, you know what I always hear from people I know that sort of work on telly and stuff?

Their favourite type of people is people that are overly familiar. That is the thing that everybody loves when you get approached. No, but I just think it knocks, it just makes it more chilled if I go up and go how you how you doing mate you know oh buddy oh this weather's absolutely nuts oh my god do you know i did a gig on saturday night right and two girls asked for um two girls come up and

asked for a photo and um one a photo and they're quite drunk one of them said to me I guess it's partly because of how I am just generally but I just come off I don't know I was just being normal my energy is not great when people are meeting me

she said can we have a photo I said yeah of course you can and she goes enjoyed the gig and I was like oh thank you very much and then she just goes you don't want us to be here do you like she didn't say in a horrible way she goes you don't really want us to be here do you and i go you know i totally don't mind like it's it's cool like yeah yeah of course i do you know you know then we did the photo and she goes and then she said something else to me and then she goes oh god you'll think you just go away i can tell look at his face he hates us and i was like no no no not at all not at all like and then i ended up like ends up being like super thirsty just like guys guys it's cool man that's really cool

anyway they knew that you were gonna do that though you reckon yeah that's on them man that's on them don't don't take that yeah that that's a way of addressing the situation to make them feel less uncomfortable by making you feel uncomfortable oh that's good well it worked very effectively i felt awful yeah um what i would say ella to you is you just got to read it on the person there are people i know like for example tom and myself i will never ever mind somebody coming up to me and saying hello or whatever and neither will tom i. I know that. Tom's a very accommodating, nice bloke. You've just got to try and read what's going on, I think. You know what I mean?

Because there are some people that just don't like being approached. And it's not because they're horrible. It's just because they're shy or they get nervous with social interaction and stuff like that. So it's just kind of reading the room, I guess. Ella, I can tell you now, as someone who I've made a boo-boo with quite a few people, I've thought it's just kind of reading the, reading the room, I guess. And I can tell you now as someone who I've made a boo boo with quite a few people, I've thought it's perfectly fine.

I think, yeah, just go over, have a chin wag. And, uh, yes, uh,

I've, I've, yeah, I've been hit with a lot of pies. What would you sort of made some sort of comment about the weather or whatever? Well, yeah,

I'd just go, Oh, buddy, I'd love lovely sandwich. Uh, so Ella, I hope that helps. I'll be honest, I felt like I got slightly self-indulgent towards the end of that answer.

But anyway, I hope it helps. JT, James Torrance, can we definitely keep that in? Thank you for that, Tom. Order up for Damien. Hey, how did your doctor's appointment go, by the way? Did you ask about Rebelsis? Actually, I'm seeing my doctor later today. Did you say Rebelsis?

My dad's been talking about Rebelsis. Rebelsis? Really? Yeah, he says it's a pill that... Well, I'll definitely be asking my doctor if Rebelsis is right for me. Rebelsis. Ask your doctor or visit Rebelsis.ca. Order up for Rebelsis. Okay, this is from Alex Moore. Don't need to keep me anonymous.

It's cool. Started the podcast two weeks ago. My reading is getting worse, isn't it? Yeah. Wow. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. My reading is getting worse, is what I said to you. And your sort of reassurance.

No, it's not the reading. It's like, I used to add a little bit of stank to it and make them sort of quite like. Do I not do that anymore? No, it's just like some of them, it's like, yeah, I think the stank-o-meter is,

sometimes it's absolutely. So how would you like me to read this then? I just think read this like it's the first email you've ever read in your life and you've just found out that emails exist. Okay, fine. So this is from I don't know, what is this?

This there's a line in bold at the top here. I don't know what that means. No, no, no. You know how these Okay, so I've got this. So this is June 9.29pm means well no no you know how okay so then i've got this so this is sat this is june 9 29 p.m right you know how all that stuff works it's the bulk of the email imagine like alex alex moore is like someone you've been so excited to hear from

hi the wolf the owl and the majestic swan don't need to keep anonymous it's cool started the podcast two weeks ago and it's easy to say i'm all caught up now two funny guys that take my emotions on a roller coaster you really have the best banter in the world and the kind words of advice is something to admire rom after hearing your stories of people misunderstanding your facial expressions to be either fed up or bored or pissed off but actually feel the opposite inside i can relate i've expected i have a resting bitch face to add to it my depression at times can find it mentally tiring to put a smile on i've argued that the tone there as i read that out was probably wrong so i've accepted it is what it is and i'm happy for my close ones to ask what's wrong etc

because of how fed up i look and i make jokes about it and reassure everyone everything's fine it's the people who see me for half a second or never met me before that say the famous phrase cheer up it won't kill you what gives these pricks the right to comment to say comments to do nothing but can cripple your self-confidence so when that comment is said with the sheer confidence of your standard twat i respond with i'm upset because my mum was rushed up oh god god i think um i think we've probably uh this is maybe the last email should have been the one that we read out with this sort of stank this feels like it the stank is uh yeah we might have uh we might sprinkle a bit too much stank on it's quite sensitive i've overdone it uh so when that comment is

said with sheer confidence of your standard twat i respond with i'm upset because my mom has rushed to hospital last night for attempted suicide and watch their face drop is upset i immediately say that's not true but you shouldn't comment on people's faces when you're not prepared for it then walk off quite smug extreme yes guilty no i know this ain't something to make light of but when you're left with pricks, you think it's okay to put strangers or have had a brief interaction down so they can feel like they've just had their best joke in the world. I think it's pathetic.

I'm curious to know what you think of this. Have you had experiences like this where you put these guys down? Don't read this out. Don't read this out. Don't read this... Oh, sorry, sorry. Okay, so I'll read this out don't read this oh sorry sorry um

okay so I'll read this to you separately there's a paragraph here where he just talks about how much the podcast has meant to him so when I said

when I saw don't read this out I thought that was the whole email Lisa made a massive boo-boo um yeah yeah

that's what I thought I was about to could you feel could you hear the raves I was about to fucking deal with the swan

quite severely no he's just said some really nice things go and smash all of her cupcakes Alex thank you very much for your email and thank you for the nice

the nice words it's actually he's actually said some really sweet stuff there so do you want to go first Tom or would you like me to I mean

I don't have Alex what you and Romesh having that resting sort of bitch face but I do have a sort of similar you and Romesh have in that resting sort of bitch face. But I do have a similar thing in that I have that people will constantly comment on the height, which is a sort of similar thing I can't really do anything about. I went through a phase of having little comebacks and sort of, you know,

now and again, you know, because it's quite obvious I'm tall. If someone comes over and sort of like, you you know make some sort of like stupid remark i'll uh i might have a little but half the time i usually think you know what this isn't this isn't meant offensively life is always going to be full of uh the fact that um it's uh everyone's trying to sort of work their way up the hierarchy of life, right? So having that little slam as soon as they meet someone, usually someone else is fucking insecurities, coming to the forefront by going,

you know what, I'm going to come in at this fucking situation. And I think more maybe with hype, but certainly with wrestling bitch face, I think alongside it looking like someone's moody or down it also sometimes can look as a confident thing do you know what i mean and people think oh this person you know whether they think a lot of themselves or they just sort of come through on their own skin or whatever or you know i think people people will have an idea that actually i'm gonna break the ice by trying to be funny it's usually as a sort of like, you know, I've fucking done it myself as I've had a laugh

or joke with someone to break the ice because I feel attention. Do you know what I mean? But if I'm going to be really honest, I think turning around and saying,

well, you know, something as harsh as that, although that might feel good to you and that might feel, I think, I think that's a pretty fucking, that's a pretty two-fitted way

of going into it. And actually, to actually turn around and be more honest about the situation if someone says that, I think that's a pretty fucking, that's a pretty two-footed way of going into it. And actually, to actually turn around and be more honest about the situation, if someone says that, I think just be like, well, you know what, I'm struggling a bit at the moment. Or just say, what should I smile about? I think coming in as something as harsh as, you know,

your mother committing, there's no need for you to come in like that. You know, you sound a doubly decent person. You sound like a good guy. And if I'm going to be honest, I think you're better than that. I think you can just turn around and person you sound like a good guy and if i'm gonna be honest i think you're better than that i think you can just turn around and go i'm a bit down or i don't i don't feel the need to walk around smiling all the time you know whatever but i think for the most part they're feeling awkward about themselves in some way and they're just passing

that feeling on to you but uh yeah that's my that's my view of it my g tom davis can i just say i thought your advice there was well considered i thought it was eloquent and i thought you dealt with uh your uh issue with what alex's response was with sensitivity and kindness i thought it was excellent well done really good thank you sir um i would also i mean it also helps that i agree with you i mean i i think that i think alex look i get totally having resting i call it i don't know why i don't call it anything but that that i've lived my life with that same thing of where people think you're not happy. And occasionally you do get comments like that. But the truth of it is exactly as Tom said,

is these people are just trying to say something or they're trying to ice break or they're nervous about, you know, making a joke or whatever. You know, you know, sometimes when you're struggling for a conversation, you look for anything. It's why people talk about the we've just been talking about it's why people make an observation about the food because they think i don't i don't know what else to say to this person i'd love to say something real if i could but i haven't got that in my locker currently because you know and so that's why people say things like that and i understand why you react the way you do but i agree with tom it's a very

extreme thing to do and if you imagine it, if you put yourself in that other person's place, they sort of think, oh, this is something to say, rightly or wrongly. Listen, I'm not defending those people. I don't mean it like that. I think it's still an annoying thing to hear. They're sort of thinking, oh, what do I say?

They say this thing, and then they get that response. It's a very difficult thing to have but the truth is when people say it to me as they do a lot and i get things about my eye a lot you know like tom's been with me when people have gone you know well are you talking to me now difficult to tell or whatever you get stuff like that i'll be honest with you i just give them the benefit of the doubt man and i just think that's just something that you thought was a funny thing to say i don't particularly love it but at the same time i'm not going to chastise you for it i mean it's much easier to just go yeah yeah i know it is and then you just move on

then sort of take it on i just you know i mean i just think let it go if you let it go it's just a moment a slight niggle if you challenge it every single time do you want to have that battle every single time somebody says something like that i don't do you mean so i think you know in terms of it's not just about benefiting that person and not making that person feel awkward it's about just making your day easier i mean if somebody wants to say that they want to say and you just move on i think would be my advice so uh hope that helps but genuinely you said some lovely things in your email. So thank you so much. Ready for another one,

Tom, Tom, ready, locked and loaded, baby. This is, uh, from Heidi.

Uh, and she says, uh, hi, Wolf, Alan Swan to start. I just want to say, I discovered this podcast a few weeks ago and I've devoured each episode.

Can I tell you something? Your feedback? I actually feel like I'm reading these emails better now. So thank you. Yeah. Um, absolutely love the chat related to so much of the content. I'm a primary school teacher and life can get quite stressful.

And this podcast really helps me at the start and end of my day to unwind and relax. Um, I know you shy away from compliments. The last two paragraphs will probably be ignored okay well i've read them out like a fucking ego fiend as a 39 year old single woman i've recently been feeling under some pressure from family and friends i've had serious relationships in the past but not for a few years i taught in the middle east now i finally moved back near friends and

family i've recently bought a house and got a permanent teaching job so i'm happy on that front most of my friends are married and with kids now I'd perhaps like to start dating again maybe find a Mr Right and perhaps have a family but the whole prospect of that seems terrifying as I'm not the most confident in that department anyway I feel like every conversation I'm having with friends now that we're seeing face to face again is constantly focused on when are you going to start dating don't you want to meet someone are you happy I guess they're just checking in but I feel a real pressure from friends family society to find a man and settle down it doesn't help that i have two cats that could be classed as a classic cat lady anyway i feel happy with my life at the

moment i've got a new house busy social life i fill my time with friends i know i'm great with kids and occasionally have a pang for maybe having my own so basically my rambling comes down to wondering what i want from life am i content i feel this shouldn't be based on other people's questioning. Should I put myself out there and date? Terrifying. I'm unsure what I want. Have you guys ever felt pressure from society to conform to what is expected? And have you?

As men, do you have friends and family asking about aspects of your life? Any advice would be greatly received. Thank you very much. Heidi. Yo, Heidi, you're a saint. You're an absolute legend of the game, Heidi. Thank you for for writing in a few kind words um heidi number one your friends saying about you dating and that

aspect of your life and going through it if i'm going to be honest with you that the trouble is with that that sort of the microscope uh i think we're all culpable of it but what will happen is at the moment they're going to go, are you going to date? Are you going to go out and date? And then you'll start, you might date someone, you'll meet someone, you'll start seeing someone, and then it'll be like, are you going to get married? And then you'll be like, well, yeah, yeah.

And you'll feel that, you know, that's a constant pressure. Then you'll get married and everyone will then be like, oh, you're going to have kids. And then you'll have kids and then it'll be like, oh, yeah, well, we're all going to buy houses and put whatever. It's a constant thing. What that is in life is, and I'm culpable of it, Romesh, we're all culpable of the fact that we look at other people's lives and it's like you're constantly speculating whatever other people are doing.

That's just natural. But my advice for you would be for no means ever take that as anything, but just people, number one, they're friends and they're looking out for you. And they're probably, they probably think you'd be, you would be an amazing mother because what you sound like,

you, you know, you would be, you, you, they want you to be happy. They say, you know,

the happiness isn't necessarily coming in the form of a relationship or being a mother. Yeah. You can have happiness on, on your own. I've, me and my wife have got friends who are single and and probably some of the happiest people i know or at least on the outset seem so um i think it's all about you working within the a world that you

feel comfortable if you're nervous about going on dates find a way that you can just go out and it not be not be a i think i think that people put so much pressure especially now on everything working so fucking quickly to become like oh this is i'm in a relationship now i'm in a date now like whether it's reality tv or whether it's um tinder or something we speculate and everything has to be almost like fast food it just gets devoured and if it doesn't really fill a gap you just go and eat something else and it's and actually the truth of most lasting relationships and and knowing what Romesh in Lisa's or mine and Catherine's was is is I think and is a long like more of a longer courtship it's getting to know that person and and not feeling the pressure so I think actually trying to find ways of building those friendships and and meeting people that actually then can become

something else so and so obviously there's always got to be that romantic feeling to it or there's got to be an attraction i think actually getting to know the person is you know not rushing stuff and just going right yeah i'm going to take my time with this i think that human interaction hopefully coming out of this pandemic can be one of the best things because i think we've all missed that we've missed being yeah i know like whenever i see right you know i've seen rubbish nearly every day during the pandemic but like whenever we hang out we're actually together like we were this week it's actually quite you feel a bit dizzy you feel a

bit later because you're sort of with a really close pal i think the problem will be everyone's going to think well you know what it feels like i've been a monopoly and i've been stuck in jail while everyone else has been around the board two or three times and i've got to try and catch up and actually the truth of the matter is you haven't, I think come out of this and take your time and just go at your own pace. And, uh, yeah,

I think that's the key to it all. The monopoly thing. You just pulled it out your ass. Beautifully. Loved it. Um, thank you so much for your email, Heidi.

Um, I think, I think from my experience of this, I think women have this much tougher than men, in terms of this expectation to be in a relationship or this expectation to be at a certain point. And this whole idea of, I know that we're in 2021, but I still think this perception of being left on the shelf or whatever you want to call it it's

tough however you don't need to be in a relationship you know you being in a relationship is like you know people have these things where they think you've got to have this by this point you've got to have done this by this point why if you don't want to be in a relationship don't be in a relationship you might just not be a relationship person you might spend your life just hanging out with friends and that's how you live your life and that's totally fine do you know what i mean and yes it might you might feel like slightly because you know the truth is society is built up for the for the perceived norm do you know what i mean and you might have to deal with a little kind of friction in that regard but the truth of the matter is if you don't want to be in a relationship don't be in a relationship you're doing great seems like you've got stuff you've

got some you know that you've got things that are making you happy you've got a busy social life all of those things are giving you a nice quality of life if you want to get into a relationship or look for a relationship or put yourself into the dating pool because you want to do that then do that if you find yourself wanting to do that because you're fed up with the questions that's not a reason to go and look for a relationship you know what i mean because then you're looking for something and it's not come from yourself i just don't think good things can come from that um i remember like my mom talking about like my mom talking about jennifer aniston not having a partner a while ago and she's going you know she just for some reason she just can't keep up a relationship i don't know maybe there's something about it you don't know i said mom like yeah it really is already brought home to me the

fact that like people still have this thing that if a woman's single it's got to be like something wrong with her or there's something missing from her life or whatever there isn't you just don't have to have that do you know what i mean so what i would say to you heidi is uh you're doing great and if you decide to not be in a relationship and just live with your two cats and do your job and that's the that's the rest of your life that's fucking great don't you don't need to do anything else i'd never before on this podcast have i ever meant this with any more solidarity but yo heidi do you there you go heidi it's been uh it's been a while since he's pulled that out and i listen that is a compliment to your email that you've managed to get tom to pull out his little catchphrase there speaking of little catchphrases the number of emails uh

that have that say push it to the max yeah but you've got yours now that's i've got do you and you've got push it to the max do you is so much better than push it to the max yeah but look you basically mine was like do you it was my my my, it's not, what happened was, is I said, oh, the swan's here. Hello, swan. Has she flown in? Yeah, she can't hear you. How are you?

I'm good. We're just finishing off the bonus episode. Tom, can I, Lisa can't hear you because of the headphones, but would you like me to pass on any messages about her? Can you just say to Lisa, this week's emails have been an absolute parade of perfectiveness. They have been beautifully constructed. They're sort of, yeah.

And I just think that the bonus episodes and the email sections of these podcasts have just smashed it since she's been involved. So, Lisa, believe it or not, Lisa actually started talking there because you couldn't believe that I was still listening to your answer. believe it or not, Lisa actually started talking there because you couldn't believe that I was still listening to your answer. So Tom would like you to know that the emails this week have been a parade of perfectiveness and something about the selection of them is really, really great and you're doing wonderfully. We do get a number of emails.

Lisa's been kind enough to not include them. We do get a number of emails talking about how the selection of emails has been a lot better since Lisa's got involved. Yeah, I agree. I think they have. Well, I'm glad you agree. Where are you off to, Lisa? School run. Pardon?

School run. School run? Yeah. Oh, OK. Oh, good, it is school run time, isn't it? All right, have fun. Bye. Love you, boys. Bye, Tom.

See you later, Lisa. See you, Alex. I can't hear you. See you, Alex. See you, Charlie. See you, Alex. Bye. Love you. Bye. Mate, they're going through this thing at the moment every morning see you Alex see you Charlie see you Alex bye love you mate they're going

through this thing at the moment every morning where they go I don't want to go to school and then you go alright don't go

to school and they go no I do want to go to school it's like who started it Theo and the others that followed

yeah maybe they do look up to Theo because he's the oldest it's like with me and you I understand

when you've got age on your side I look up to you in that sort of he's the oldest. Very sweet. It's like with me and you. No, I understand why. No, yeah, when you've got age on your side, I look up to you in that sort of way. Oh, okay. There you go. I thought you were saying something nice about my children, but actually what you were trying to do is crowbar in another dig at me. Tom, I think we're out of time for this bonus episode. We've had a nice old time, though, haven't we? You know what?

I thought the main episode this week was a bit of a struggle. We were both a bit hungover. We were both tired. The main episode this week was shit, right? There's no getting away from that. It was absolute shit, right? Have you listened back to it? I listened to a bit of it

it's it's not even the content man it's like how we sound yeah it's just everything about it look big shout out to james torrance our editor by the way because first of all he convinced us to put it out because we weren't sure uh and i still think i still think it's worth putting out even though it was shit it's a good lesson yeah, you know, life has its ups and downs. Yeah. We're not about consistency here at The Wolf for now. We're about just putting out any old crap. But although what you get is a fair reflection of us as people.

Correct. Some days we are going to be fucking sitting on the top of a mountain together, just holding hands, looking across the beautiful earth as it fucking spins around in a sphere-like fashion. And other days we would just be fucking sitting in a swamp together with our butts just fucking full of crud and fucking frog shit on us. Like Shrek and Fiona. And also, let me just say, by the way, I think it's actually disgusting by both of us

that we haven't given James Torrance an animal name. An animal name? Well, look, we've got the wolf, owl, and swan. We've talked about it. But JT's got nothing. So, you know what? I, the owl and the swan. We've talked about it. But JT's got nothing. So, you know what? I think JT should be the eagle. Okay. Yeah.

You cool with that? The wolf, the owl, the swan and the eagle. Yeah. What I would say there is, of the four people involved in the podcast, three are birds. Okay. What about the beaver basically a wolf has got inside

the aviary fucking chaos what about the beaver the beaver well they're industrious aren't they right

okay yeah I think James Torrance should pick it James this is James this is to you as you're editing this leave all this in

please could you choose yourself an animal? Yeah. And let us know what it is. And we will announce it on the next episode of the podcast. Yeah, yeah. Man, I'm actually looking forward to the next episode because you know what? England would have played.

Oh. Just very, very quickly before we go. Yeah. How far do you think they're going to get in this tournament? Semifinals. Worst, I think. I worry a little bit about us defensively. how far do you think they're going to get in this tournament semi-finals at worst I think I worry a little bit

about us defensively I've got to say if Harry Maguire's not fit I do worry about us defensively I think we're going to get to the final do you

yeah I really I feel I haven't felt this excited well actually that's not true I felt quite excited about England last time out

but I just think we look great I feel excited every time they play but I will say this, that if we win the group, which we probably will, the trouble is

that you then play the, I think, second place of the group of death, which is, you know, which would be tough. You know what?

At some point, you've got to beat the best teams. Sure. And if anything, I hope that England are like this week's bonus episode

rather than our main episode. They come out. Absolutely right. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely right. Um, I'm about to today,

but get myself an England top. Wowzers really? Yeah. Yeah. We're going to go to the shop and buy one or buy one online. I'm probably going to buy one online. I saw, uh,

they've got some like properly drippy England jackets, man. Like England varsity jackets they're so sick yeah anyway maybe wear it next time I might look at buying one now as well

oh should we should we do the next episode in England tops yeah boy okay wicked listen mate it's been an absolute pleasure Tom my guy

my guy you have yourself a great day you have no no no you have an incredible day okay I want you to feel that every step

you take today, you know, I'm with you. You know, that old thing of footsteps on the sand. No. Oh yeah,

I do know. Yeah. I was walking on the footsteps along the beach and actually when I look back when my life was hardest, there was only one

set of footsteps and then the guy turns around and says, yeah, because in your hardest moments, I carried you. And what's the story of that? That guy was just blackout drunk. He doesn't remember what happened. I can't remember. I just remember the end. It's a religious thing.

Thank you very much, guys. Again, apologies for the main episode. It really was dog shit. We will see you next time on the little podcast we like to call The Wolf and Owl. If you have a problem, opinion, feedback, or anything at all, please email us at wolfowlpod at gmail.com. That us at wolfalpod at gmail.com. That's

wolfalpod at gmail.com. We'd love to hear from you, mainly because we don't have any content ideas. Thank you.