Wolf and Owl - S2 Ep 57: Body Talk & Hot Sauce

Episode Date: July 26, 2023

We’re talking… manhandling cameras, disappointing photos, moobs and fluctuating body-confidence, a pact to talk more positively about ourselves, staying hydrated, miniature bottles of hot sauce, food regrets and very early bedtimes. Plus, we tackle a tricky email question about a moral conflict at work. For questions or comments please email us at [e-mail] - we’d love to hear from you. Instagram - @wolfowlpod TikTok - @wolfowlpodcast YouTube - www.youtube.com/WolfandOwlPodcast Merch & Mailing List - https://wolfandowlpod.com/ A Shiny Ranga Production For sales and sponsorship enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Like they rolled in with a gang of crows Fuck the censorship, let them see the whole thing They stay dressed to kill, never sheep's clothing Dark enough to turn the sun to the moon You'll see nothing, all you hear's a huff a puff and a Ooooooooo killings, red spilling and flesh ripping, impressive in it, the death bringing, it's head spinning, just kidding, every word in this song's about two grown men dressed up as a bird and a dog. Hello, hello, hello, welcome to The Wolf for Now, once again at Spotify Studios and Tom

In the same clothes, because we're recording two in a row, so. You said you were going to bring a change of outfit i was thinking about it i was thinking um i just i mean that in the scheme of things i don't know if i've had time for a costume change also because i've heard other podcasts do that i'm not going to i'm not going to name any of the podcasts okay but they record like three or four in a day and then they have costume changes so they can keep keep that. For the photos? Or for the, we're being filmed, aren't we? For the film,

yeah. Actually, we should talk about us being filmed, because we're in Spotify Studios, as I've said. We've got four cameras. Yeah. And,

and you, within minutes of arriving, said, oh, there's not a camera on you. Walked over to one. No, there's not a camera on you.

I was worried about you. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You said, there's not a camera on you. Yeah, yeah. Right. And you walked over to one camera on you I was worried about you yeah that's what I'm saying you said there's not a camera on you yeah yeah right

and you walked over to one of the cameras which looked really fucking expensive and picked one up to move it to another part of the studio at which point

Tom at Spotify almost I wouldn't say shouted but there was panic in his voice yeah there was a panic said

don't move don't move the cameras he didn't say it like now you're putting a bit but there was panic in his voice. Yeah, there was a panic. He said, don't move the cameras. He didn't say it like that. Now you're putting a bit of a stank on his voice now. He was like, hey, don't move the cameras. He was like, don't move the cameras. And then he said,

I've been here a year and a half and nobody's ever done that before. The cameras actually, bearing in mind you work in TV a lot, you didn't seem to know that they could move and be sort of controlled. No, because usually there's a cameraman with them didn't seem to know that they could move and be sort of controlled. No, because usually there's a cameraman with them.

I didn't know that they could move around and stuff. I mean, these are amazing cameras. They are amazing cameras. What made you think that you should... Honestly, it's like within two minutes of getting in here, you picked the whole unit out. I was trying to help out because obviously I was late. So I was then trying to sort of think, how do I help out here?

Maybe if I move one of the cameras into place, because I had two cameras on me, and you did turn around and go, I haven't even got a bloody single, mate. That's not what I said. What? Like, you report these things in the middle of a conversation

where we're actually saying real shit, and then it just makes it seem like you're telling the truth. You did say something along those lines. You said, I haven't't got there's not a bloody shingle on me I didn't no I didn't what did you say

I said there's a single on you and we've got two of us in another one and there's not one on me now who's

that's a bull pie if ever I've ever won you told me you went there's a bloody two shot there's one of you

there's not a bloody single well that's what I said I didn't say there's not a bloody single of me. Well, that's what I said. I didn't say there's not a bloody single of me. How do you feel about doing two back-to-back like this? I don't mind doing two back-to-back. What I'm slightly concerned about is we've taken a series of photos and I hate how I look in all of the photos.

Why do you hate how you look? I don't know. You look great. No, but I just don't like how I look in the photos. I can't... it's like one i would say rough estimate one in 25 photos i think are okay do you find like now because you know you're looking good physically you look amazing no and i'm i mean that honestly but do you find that now do you are you putting more pressure on the fact like so for example i'm i'm what am i doing I'm projecting my own thing here

so yeah so as we talked last week in the last week's episode I played in a golf thing right

in this tournament while we're playing golf there's me Phil Jones the Man United player what a lovely man by the way and actually credit to the sport and credit to humanity in general

really lovely guy and a number of other people right by the way they must be absolutely delighted to have been mentioned on this Phil Jones a credit to the sport and also a credit to humanity and some other people

who I can't even be fucking arsed to name bearing in mind you are somebody who fully names even people you went to school with Bearing in mind that you are somebody who fully names even people you went to school with when you're telling the most hideous stories about them. Oh, yeah. There's a guy who's like,

he had a testicle growing out of his ear. We used to call him Nut Ear. Yeah, his name was Thomas Pope, actually. Yeah, Thomas Pope. I'm trying to remember where he lives. I think he still lives at the same place, 12 High Rise. Right. So I think, still lives at the same place, 12 High Rise. Right. So I think I turned up that day,

and I think I was wearing like, it was my friend's got a sustainable golf brand. He's got a what? Sustainable. Is it sustainable? No. Sustainable. All right, fucking hell.

Why make two words that are so close together? Well, sustainable's not a word, so that solves our conundrum. Sustainable? So there's not a B in it? No. Well, there is actually, near the end. Yeah, but I've definitely seen sustainable somewhere. Yeah, I imagine after you've just written it down. Yeah, right. In a formal letter.

He's got a golf brand, Reflow. I'm really worried that sustainable is an actual word now carry on i'm listening so then i so he gives me some clothes to wear from his brand so uh it can it can be a bit of a push for him anyhow they film us playing all that i think i you know in my head i'm like you know i've lost a bit of timber. I feel like I'm looking good. Yeah, I Can't when I watch the video online There's no way of me watching it without looking at my moves through the whole thing I'm constantly just looking I feel I'm like I look so booby in every picture. Yeah, it literally He sent me this lovely message. He was like, oh, yeah We've got some of you better shots that you hit that day

Which again very sweet of him because I played that absolute shit. And he was like, you know, put it up and I'm like, well, you know,

he's a mate and I'm, you know, he's launching this brand and I'm trying to sort of help and it's a brilliant thing that he's doing. But all I can think of

is as I'm watching the video, I can't even, like, I'd find it insane that anyone could even notice I'm playing golf. All they can notice is that I've got, look, like, I'd find it insane that anyone could even notice I'm playing golf. All they can notice is that I've got, in my head, a massive pair of man boobs.

Yeah, I mean, first of all, you're looking great. Yeah, yeah, but that's, see, that's the same thing I've said to you, but it's you, right? Yes, sure. But this is the thing, right? And I think that, like, I'm not saying that we've done anything wrong. I'm saying we might have inadvertently done some wrong things, right? And I think that, like, I'm not saying that we've done anything wrong. I'm saying we might have inadvertently done some wrong things, right?

Okay. So hear me out on this, right? First of all, we've always been self-conscious about our bodies, right? And I think I've said this before. The best solution to that is to become comfortable with yourself, right? Okay? We haven't managed that. No.

Okay? But we wanted to get healthier. We wanted to do whatever, right? Now, I know that there's debates about whether losing weight does actually make you healthier, right? And, you know, we haven't got time to, well, we have got time to get into that. We've got nothing to talk about really. But, you know, we're not going to settle that debate now.

The fact of the matter is you and I have lost weight, right? Both of us. But the truth is, and I think this is important, people think that as soon as you lose weight, you're going to magic away all your insecurities and you're going to start feeling like you might be happy that you've lost weight because that's what you're aiming to do. And I was trying to get healthier and fitter

and I'm able to do more stuff in the gym. I'm not out of breath after running 10 meters and blah, blah, blah. So that all feels good. The fact of the matter is, I genuinely, I'm not just saying this, I do not feel any better about my appearance than I did before I lost the weight.

Like, I found new hang-ups or there's other things that I don't like. Do you know what I mean? So, what that says to me is, I'm not saying that we shouldn't

have lost the weight, right? Because I think it's a positive thing for you, a positive thing for me. My thing was losing weight, by the way. Personally, yeah. Yeah,

I was never like, oh, I need to lose the weight because physically I don't want to be overweight or like I don't

want to I never had like I had hang ups about that I had hang ups about the way I looked even now when I look back at pictures

and sort of I feel and that's not taking nothing away from me or having a dig at anyone that made me feel

insecure about how I looked the reason to lose weight my main drive was to be i was having a child and when we went to like fucking talk to them about you know uh surrogacy and talk to them about um at the nhs one of the big things was that i was you know grossly overweight i was obese you know So when you're standing on the scales in front of someone and my wife and that woman was like, well, this isn't exactly, we're talking about IVF and this isn't something, we're not looking at you to go,

well, you feel like this is a relationship that feels like good candidates because I was not in a good way. My BMI was up. My cholesterol was up. BMI is not the best measure though, right? my bmi was up my cholesterol was up bmi is not the best measure though right no no but my cholesterol was very high so so me losing weight and becoming healthier and fitter was a matter of me just going i need to do that more than any sort of like

uh ego-led sort of like way that i looked it was more like I just need to be healthier for my daughter and for my wife and for myself. So like you say, so if I'm doing something with Grace, if I'm playing with Grace, if I'm running around with Grace, it's sort of like I'm an older dad anyway. I don't want to be in a situation where I'm like panting and I'm out of breath. I want to be healthy.

And for my wife, so I just, you know, for myself. So that's a big part of me going forward is that, you know. But what I didn't expect is to lose weight. And I was probably quite naive to think, oh, if I lose weight, I will feel really, really a lot better about myself. And that's not happened. I still look at myself. I still walk past a window and look in it and think

oh i could like read off a whole load of things that i don't like about my appearance they're sort of solely so ingrained in me as a person yeah so i i think like um yeah i mean it is what it is do you mean the the fact that the fact of the matter is we've got bigger fucking issues to sort out. No, no, but that is it, isn't it? It's like the mental thing, right? Yeah. I have this thing where like, so yesterday I did like eight gigs, right?

Like trying out new material. Shout out to Math Brown outside the box for sorting it out, right? Brilliant guy. So I was able to like just work up new material. But the one thing I was dreading is that I knew that people would take photos of me on stage. When you're not happy with how you look in a photo that you've posed for,

which we've just, by the way, at the end of the previous episode, we've done some photos of, and I've absolutely just had a look at them and gotten into a spiral. The idea of looking at a series of photos of you that you haven just had a look at them and gone into a spiral right the idea of looking at a series of photos of you that you haven't paid for yeah it's terrifying right yeah like like i sort of feel like a lot of the times i look like a sort of an old turtle and also the

really difficult thing is in what we do when we're getting pictured is you're doing stand-up right which usually is you know i know you know having watched you and which getting pictured is you're doing stand-up right which usually is you know i know you know having watched you and which like you know you're doing a sea of physical movements you know facial movements uh so when people take like there was a at the gig you know that i was doing a festival and there was there's photographers there there was someone filming it first one of the first things i did off stage was text uh flo in the guy antonio and everyone was like how can we have sign off of the pic because he's like taking pictures from pictures from up so he's like you know yeah so you're like all right

okay and then a few people in the audience have filmed me on stage and bless my wife as i left the house more catherine said your outfit is really you look great your outfit is really cool you look really well all I could see is literally like I was like

my top half still I still look like a massive load of play-doh on two sticks but what a delightful looking heap of play-doh look it is it's in your own head right

yeah it's bad are you doing are you are you going to think about... Because I'm going to go and talk to a therapist about this. Well, listen, genuinely now, because we're getting to the point now

where we talk about this so much, people are getting fed up with us being so... Not fed up. People are saying it's not nice to hear you talking about yourself. No, no. So actually, what we need to do, Tom, we need to make a change. Yeah.

Okay? We are too... I will say this, though. You're always very, very positive. So actually, what we need to do, Tom, we need to make a change. Yeah. Okay? Yeah. We are to... I will say this, though. You're always very, very positive. Like, the messages you'll send me and I try to do the same to you, but, you know, we're positive about each other. We're just not ourselves.

Yeah, I mean, you know, the problem for me slightly with your positivity is I've also seen you sort of... Somebody that you've just read the opening line of an email from,'ve described it was one of the greatest human beings on the planet so it slightly takes a gloss off what you say to me yeah yeah yeah yeah but you don't mean everything no pretty much do right I think when I hear a nice line or I get a feeling about someone I mean on both sides well I can I can think so was absolute prick by the smallness of actions and never want to talk to them again.

That is true. You do do that. But, so I think we need to be more positive. I think we should talk about ourselves more positively.

So, let's try it right now. Okay. Okay. I want you to, I want you to repeat after me. I want you to repeat after me. Okay?

Are you going to vie for ****? You know, he's got that retreat thing that he's doing. Let me tell you something. If there's somebody I'm not trying to vie for, it's **** anything. All right? Okay. Okay.

**** taking down a two-footed challenge by Robert Franken. Listen, he doesn't need me to take him down. His own actions have done that. Hi, JT, it's Romesh. Any chance you could delete that bit? I'm 100%. Is it possible to bleep the name out? Anyway.

Go ahead. Okay, so I want you to say this. I want you to play it off to me. Yeah. My name is Tom Davis yeah my name is Tom Davis my name is Tom Davis you could do anything to me I'm putty in your hands

yeah well you just won't say it would you if I say I'm Tom Davis and I'm like the no but when I invest in a game I invest right

so you know if I play risk I play to the end so whatever I say you'll repeat well pretty much I trust you yeah

this is a trust exercise but as soon as I say something off key you're not going to trust me are you well yeah this is me falling back into your arms. It's just in a mental sense. Yeah, but what I'm saying...

Be there for me. Yeah, but you don't have to say what I'm about to say to you. Okay, okay, let's go. If I go... Yeah, but... We're gone. Yeah, but you could say it. I'm Tom Davis.

I'm a smelly arsehole, but... Yeah. You know, with the great smell. I smell of good stuff. Do you know what I mean? It could be'm a smelly arsehole, but, you know, with the great smell, I smell of good stuff. Do you know what I mean? It could be like a twist to that. Is that what your ending to that is? No, no, it could be like,

oh, but I smell delightful of, like, I don't know, today I smell of Tom Ford. Right. Okay, I'm Tom Davis. I'm Tom Davis. And I'm a healthy, decent, attractive man. This is actually harder to say than being a smelly arsehole. I genuinely find this really hard to say.

Go on. And I'm a... Decent. Decent. I didn't think you'd struggle to remember this. I'm a decent, hardworking. No, healthy. I'm a decent, healthy.

Kind. Kind. Funny. Funny. Talented. Talented. Attractive man. Attractive man. healthy I'm a decent healthy kind kind funny funny talented talented attractive man attractive man

I actually found that quite difficult to say yeah I feel like it slightly undermined me feeding you the words one by one but that's not your fault that's my fault so would you do the same

could you say the same about yourself you want me to say those things yeah I'm a shrankenathan I'm a cool happening amazing

I'm doing a serious exercise here no this is things like that I'm Romesh Ranganathan I'm a cool happening amazing I'm doing a serious exercise here no this is things like that I'm actually trying to help us out okay and you're going I'm a cool hip

fucking amazing cool cat or whatever okay what are you on to mind in the exercise I'm Romesh Ranganathan I keep having an M in it I'm Romesh Ranganathan

I'm Romesh Ranganathan I'm a kind genuine very very, very decent, lovely, sweet, sweet soul. I'm a kind, genuine, very, very decent, sweet, sweet soul. Yeah, there we go. Yeah. Thanks for not putting attractive in there. No, no, no.

It's cool, it's cool, it's cool. You chose the words that you chose. No, but I was looking inside. Right, okay. You want exterior as well. No, I don't. it's cool, it's cool, it's cool. You chose the words that you chose. No, but I was looking inside. Right, okay. You want exterior as well. No, I don't. I could have put sexy in. Yeah.

You have got a sex appeal. I think that's really sort of something. I mean, sometimes I get lost in you. Oh, God. So let's be clear. When it comes to shipping internationally, can I provide trade documents electronically? Mm-hmm. The answer is FedEx.

Okay. But what about estimating duties and taxes on my shipments? How do I find all the... Also FedEx. Impressive. Is there a regulatory specialist I can ask about? FedEx. Oh.

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Yep. Party wrong? Pardon? Party wrong? Oh, here's another thing, by the way other day, I was out. Yep. Party you on? Pardon? Party you on? Oh, here's another thing, by the way. I don't want to encourage drinking. Yeah. Okay.

But I did go out and have quite a few drinks with some mates the other night, right? Right. And then I went home and I drank, I forced myself to drink four pints, four, I forced myself to drink four pints of water. That's amazing. Right? It felt disgusting. No, that's a good thing to do. Yeah, yeah. I had to force it four pints of water. That's amazing. Right? It felt disgusting. No, that's a good thing to do.

Yeah, yeah. I had to force it down. Yeah, yeah. The difference in how I woke up. Oh, mate. It was unbelievable. It's amazing how much of a difference it makes, right? Oh, mate, it's another level.

If you drink as you're drinking, like if you have pints, wine. Yeah, I mean, listen, I know it's 2023 and male relationships have got better yeah but if you were out with your friends yeah what happens if you ask for a water to go with your drink yeah you know it's a water chaser yeah i was thinking if you have a bottle of water on the table yeah that you can just because it never gets drunk when if you go out for like pints or whatever or say you go out

for a meal we me and my pals we started to have like a bite to eat and then when someone comes around says oh yeah you're always talking about you and your pals to be fair i'm gonna actually this is i'm gonna be very honest i actually don't i i've i've ostracized myself from quite a lot of my older friend like friends from back in the day just I don't know I just I think because I've moved areas so when I say pals it's usually I say it's usually just me and James

it's quite bleak is that sweet? no no but then you know and to me at the moment you know as silly as it sounds like one of the main things

like me and Catherine went out the other night went to watch Bastille at Kew Gardens which was very How was that? It was very middle class The Bastille gig

was very middle class Bastille at Kew Gardens but we had a lot of fun we had a few drinks it was probably one of the first times since Grace has been born that we've gone

had a proper sort of right let's have a few drinks mum and dad are looking after Grace and let's relax and have some and we actually had a real laugh

it really felt like really reconnecting which was nice and again not encouraging drink but I don't think that would have been as doable

without having a few drinks why? because I think it just relaxes you I think when you've got like when you you know

when I think like in life I think the more sort of stresses you have or the more things you have as a couple going on. Some people don't drink though, do they? Yeah, do you know what? I don't drink.

I've cut down my drinking just on a basis that I drank so heavily all through my 20s and pretty much most of my 30s. Like really heavily. But now I'm trying to, I've sustained, it was like I don't want to drink. But then also I'm in to I've I've sustained it it was like I don't want to drink but then also I'm in a position now

where I actually quite enjoy a couple of beers but that's what I mean about then the company that I'm keeping I I find it really difficult then to go

right I'm going to go out with these people or those people because then I go what old habits and when I end up just you know

in like 15-20 pints and just you know spending a day getting drunk and then it being 2 in the morning I'm absolutely leathered somewhere, not in necessarily the best company, that's where I start thinking actually you've got to sort of

have a bit of a circuit change right? Yeah, I totally agree with you Yeah What have you gone all dark there for? I don't know, I went quite, I looked into It's like you looked into the abyss, it's like you looked into a bit. It's like watching you see the end of Event Horizon. I've never seen that film.

So anyway, when I was on the night out, I ordered a pizza. Yeah. And vegan pizzas are like... It's a roll of the dice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, this pizza was absolutely delicious, right? Like, I would say...

Best pizza ever? It was up there. Wow. No, not best pizza ever. It was a great pizza. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I only ate half of it because I was full up. Right.

Right? And I really wanted to eat the rest of it because it was so delicious. Right. Is this worth saying out loud? I can't believe I'm saying these things. Anyway, the point is, later on, or like the next day, I got hungry again.

Right. Obviously, humans get hungry again, don't they? Yeah. The shame and the sorrow I felt about not finishing that pizza. What, really? Well, because it was just sort of so delicious and then I didn't have it in front of me.

Could you not have taken it home with you? No, because it was just sort of so delicious and then I didn't have it in front of me. Could you not have taken it home with you? No, because it's like it was like really early on in the, do you know what I mean? I don't know, what am I doing

walking around for the rest of the evening with a pizza box in my hand? It's a cool, cool icebreaker though. What? Well, like you turn up and someone,

someone says, what have you got there? It's like that, right in that box is going to help me out tomorrow. That is, yeah, that's, that's the best pizza I've ever had.

Give the box a little stroke. Yeah, I mean, it's a guaranteed way of making someone walk away, I suppose. Here's a thing for you, right, just on that. I've often contemplated carrying hot sauce with me. Have we talked about this before? No, no. But I think that's a good idea. Because I love hot sauce. You know what you can get on Amazon? Loads of tiny little bottles. of tiny little bottles i know but if you're sat with somebody because i've looked

those up right if you were sat with someone yeah and they just reach into their pocket and pull out a small bottle of hot sauce i don't know if you're the greatest litmus test for this to be honest with me what would you think i genuinely i'd look at you with absolute adulation yeah i don't think you're the guy to talk to. No, no, I think it's an amazing thing. To always have something with you. Number one, right? Number one, who do you need to impress in life?

As much as you need, like, that is, for me, the sort of thing I think that sets you apart. I don't think that should be something that you worry about. I think you just go, oh, the hot sauce guy. He is so cool. He's always got, like, a little bottle of hot sauce. But why do you worry about what people think? Why do you worry that someone, like, would look at you

and you're going to enjoy your food so much more? I don't even know if I'd have the guts to get it out in a restaurant. Really? Yeah. Because you're ordering the food, and then what you're saying is, I just see this as my hot sauce delivery system. Do you know what I mean?

Somebody's slaved in a kitchen to make you this food, and then you're just going to go now. But that's the same thing. Look, where do you stand on salt and pepper? Do you put it on before you test? No. So you have a little try. Well, okay.

I said that because I knew what you were getting at. The truth is, a lot of the time I know that I'm going to want pepper on it, so I just put it on there. And then I can look at a chip and go... This is such an edgy chat, isn't it? I can look at a chip and go, that needs some salt, mate. Yeah, a chip?

Yeah. Yeah, okay, fine. Obviously... Yeah, chips use salt, right? Yeah. So what are you talking? What are you going to put hot sauce on

everything but then you've got an addiction to hot sauce everything's going to taste the same okay well this is what I'm getting at yeah yeah but then everything

I thought you meant just like you know but you can't put on everything you eat because everything will just taste of hot sauce I mean a lot of things yeah I want everything

to taste of hot sauce that's the point I'm trying to make but then I suppose that could be deeper within you because of the vegan thing what does that mean well everything might not take you know you might not be eating in the best places sometimes things are a little bland right so you need a little spice up

trust me grace is a vegetarian katherine doesn't eat me i go to i eat quite a lot of vegetarian food and i will say this sometimes i think they lack the push to make it taste as nice as what does that mean? I think sometimes people lowball vegetarians

and vegans unfairly so in what way? I don't think they put the same consideration into the food that they cook in restaurants

I don't think that's true of every restaurant not every restaurant I'm just saying if I saw you and we were out and I looked over and go

bloody Womish is over there but he's got his hot sauce with him and I'd see you pour were out and I looked over and go bloody Womish is over there but he's got his hot sauce with him and I'd see you pour it out in a little like

little bottle yeah mate I think you should do it what's that got to do with the first half of the sentence no no

you you just went right you just go I don't think restaurants put as much thought... And then I go, not every restaurant.

You go, not every restaurant. And you go, if I saw you across a restaurant, I'd go, that's Robert Schragger-Aford. He has a hot sauce. What are you fucking talking about?

The first part of what you were saying has got no connection to the second half. JT's going to have to get all of these sentences that you said and try and fucking assemble them like a puzzle.

Like a game of Tetris. I think that goes there. That goes there. No, but the chef would turn around. Someone would go, you all right? And they'd go, what's up, what's up? I've just put Romesh's food down.

Oh, what? The, I don't know, the vegan jamboree. And like, yeah, yeah, yeah. He just got hot sauce out and poured it all over the food. Oh, right. I think I've probably got to start making more effort with the vegan food here. Oh, I see. Okay.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, it does make sense. Well, it does when I finish the, yeah. No, you had finished. And what happens if I said that? How do I fucking rescue this? Yeah, but this is I finish the, yeah. No, you had finished. And what happens is I said that, and how do I fucking rescue this? Yeah, but this is what I'm, yeah, that was what I kind of was getting at. But, yeah, at the time, I've got to say,

there was a lot going on in the restaurant that we were both in. So I was like, oh, my God, that was me. I'm fucking out of this rubbish. Weird that he's in here. He doesn't live near here. Yeah. You know. Yeah. live near here yeah you know do you ever regret

not finishing a meal does that ever happen yeah yeah quite a lot of the time also sometimes I regret not taking the offer up

on food after the gig the other day everyone can you eat before a gig taking the offer up on food after the gig the other day everyone can you eat before a gig I can't eat less than like

I would say 90 minutes 2 hours before a gig yeah same unless it's like I'm just doing 20 minutes

before a tour show yeah well no I find any sort of even if I'm doing 15 20 minutes I can't

I don't like I can't it's just out of my head so if I'm gigging at 20 minutes, I can't. I don't like, I can't. It's just out of my head. So if I'm gigging at, yeah, two hours, two, three hours is my cut off. So when I arrived, everyone was sort of like getting stuck into these big plates of food

that the festival were giving them. And I was like, I can't eat, can I have something after? They didn't love your shirt. Yeah, they did actually. It was pretty banging. And then after, everyone was drunk and sort of partying which was fair enough i'd sort of laid the cable to her what what no i don't even eat anything that's been the problem as well and then today i've hardly eaten anything

right so why deliberately no no because i've been running around all day right so i was literally hoping to get something. Say all day. It's ten past two in the afternoon. Yeah, but fucking hell, I've been up. One and a half hours we've been in this room doing this podcast. Yeah, I did a workout at six this morning. So all I had was some, like, shreddies. So you have eaten? Yeah, I've had some shreddies and two boiled eggs.

so I think you might be alright yeah yeah but I'm a big old unit yeah you gotta think like how much are you burning on your Apple Watch how much are you burning

I've got no idea how do I figure that out well don't you do it it's the best thing to do what do you do work out yeah and then go heavy lifting and it'll say how much you burn in a session I don't know we it? It's the best thing to do. What do you do? Work out. Yeah. And then go heavy lifting

and it'll say how much you burn in a session. I don't know. We need to become Apple Watch friends. What does that mean? So we can see what each other's doing. I don't think so. What? I just feel like,

I don't really want you to be monitoring that. Yeah, we monitor each other and we can push each other. Yeah, I know, but I don't want to get to like nine in the evening. I'm just sitting there eating some popcorn, watching a film, and I get a text going, oh, I thought you knew to step that burn up today, mate.

Got another couple of hours before bed. Get yourself on that Peloton or whatever. Can I just say, if it's nine o'clock in the evening, there's a good chance I'm already in bed and asleep. What time are you getting to bed at the moment? Nine, half nine. Sometimes 8.30. You're not getting to bed at 8.30?

Sometimes, me and Catherine. Why? I quite like getting into bed and watching something. Okay, fine, but you're not getting ready to sleep, are you? No, well, yeah, I brush my teeth, wash my face. So you are actually doing that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you do your bedtime routine at 8.30 in the evening? 8.30, 9 o'clock, yeah. What time are you going? I don't think I go to bed, I don't think I've gone to bed before 11 for a long time. I see, like, obviously with gigging or working, if I'm out late, I'm out late. Yeah, sure.

Yeah, obviously. I mean, you don't have to say that. If I've obviously got a tour show that goes on beyond 10, I won't go to bed at half eight. Yeah, okay. I mean, if I could get a bed on stage, I'd probably try. But yeah, if I'm at home, we try. I like an early night.

I like a little chilled vibe. Yeah, but not every night. Now and again, Lisa and I go, should we go get an early night? I think there's something quite nice about being in bed as the sun goes down. Don't you know? That's why sometimes if I text you

and you text me at like I don't know half nine ten and I don't text back till six in the morning yeah I'm asleep

well that's never happened what time do you get up you're an early riser as well aren't you I get up about six yeah so I'll probably get like what seven hours

I mean I've done the maths there pretty quickly used to be a maths teacher yeah you've flown through that. Yeah, I'm on about... That's not enough, I don't think. You're supposed to get...

You're on 10 hours of sleep a night. I try to get, yeah. 10? Well, also, let me throw this into the mix. Grace has a habit at the moment of waking up around 1 o'clock. Right. And sometimes you've got to go in and sort of, like, give her a cuddle, put her back down.

So then that... And then I've struggled then. That's the bit i have a real problem with i struggle to get back to sleep at like half one two o'clock right so sometimes i can be up at two and then before i know it's six i'm getting up for a workout okay fine and i'll lay in bed for like four hours just with my anxieties and worries mate one of the nights when i was doing weakest, I woke up at midnight and my brain just kicked in and I didn't go to sleep until three o'clock in the morning after that.

It's horrible. It's one of the loneliest experiences you can have. It's lonely and it's torturous. Yeah. It's horrible. I just started going on... I mean, you're not supposed

to look at your phone, are you? No. Well, that's impossible not to. I know. What, you're supposed to just lie there? Yeah. Looking at the ceiling? Well, yeah, but the school of thought is that

then you would get so bored by the ceiling that you're full of sleep. Yeah, that actually makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Best Western made booking our family beach vacation a breeze. And it felt a little like... Life's a trip. Make the most of it at best western we all have the power to shape the world we're connected to the world we share to each other

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Okay, this is from The Optimistic Bunny. Dear Wolf and Al, Optimistic Bunny here. I've just graduated from university where I studied costume and set design. I started working on a small show as a set designer and helping with costume. I'm actually being paid, even if it's a small amount. It's really hard to find paid work when you get to make creative choices and you're just starting out in theatre. The problem is this.

In talking to local venues, I discovered that some problems with the venue had been brought up and two LGBTQ plus shows had recently pulled out of the venue because they didn't feel respected or like it was a safe space i told the director of my show who told the cast and a few people pulled out so now that show has been cancelled postponed until september and the director's asked if i still want to design it i'm very torn because i want to support the lgbtq plus community and i know many people are part of it but at the same time it's not the actual show but the venue and I've really struggled to find paid creative work and I've invested time

into this project. This is a tough one, this. Should I drop out and keep looking for other opportunities or do the show in September? I'm struggling to make the choice. Thanks for your advice and I love listening to your podcast

from the Optimistic Bunny. Tom Davis. Wow. That's a difficult one. It is a difficult one. Thank you, Swan. Yes. I mean, I do think it is is so here's the tricky thing is that so i don't know if you've ever had this like on a tour show i've got a show

at a theater on my tour and i'm not even gonna that's happened to me as well i'm not gonna name the person because i don't want to give them any publicity because they're an absolute scumbag but this person is also playing that venue so i've had a lot of messages from people saying are you still playing this venue even though this person is um so i'm i'm a little bit and i've got to say i there's a part of me i spoke to catherine about this jt can you beat this out is it no is it no i wouldn't have a problem oh my lord okay so yeah so i don't want to give that person any but so but i've sold out two nights there they're struggling to sell tickets obviously because they're a horrible piece of are they the point of the stories that you've sold out two nights no no the point of the story or that you've sold out two nights no no no the point of the story is this is I actually that's someone I

genuinely hate and just I think is one of the most toxic elements of society I think that they're just utterly vile

and so so I so the people have messaged me I have it's been something in my head where I'm a bit like

do I save to the venue I don't I don't think I can play at the same place at this point that you're putting on a show with this person I find that quite difficult I've thought about that and that's a ridiculous even do you mean because then there's a load of people who you know wanting to come and see me who lose out how do you how do you best play that and then are you in a situation where someone who's as vicious and disgusting as that then go someone turns around we're cancelling your show because

this person's pulled out it just feels a bit so in answer to their question I sort of struggle out a bit myself I don't quite know how to I'd'd say it is difficult to get into the business. It's very, very hard. But there's a part, but this is a contradictory thing because if I don't make a stand now and give her the advice that she should, then that kind of feels a little bit hollow from me.

Yeah, it's a difficult one. Romesh, I think. Have you ever been in that situation? No. But my advice to you is, like, to you, Tom, is I think we're talking about two slightly different situations here. Your venue haven't actually done anything wrong. They've just got this person on doing a show there, right?

A lot of places have refused to put them on okay but they haven't decided to do that what what is the outcome of you pulling out that yeah like that that's what i would look at if i was you and the truth is the outcome is that that person will probably still do the show there yeah and and two nights of your show just going to get cancelled right yeah so i just think you'd go ahead and do it it's not it's it's really it's nothing to do with you yeah right and you know if you want you can express when you go there or in advance to say that i'm slightly disappointed this person's being put on yeah but i think that it's a very difficult line to tread because even though i agree with you the other thing is is like where

do we decide like how we the moral arbiters of what a venue puts on do you mean like it's like there are some people that find different types of people offensive right there are some people that like there are certain comedians that you and i like this is my difficulty the person we're talking about is that if it was a comedian like the ones you've mentioned there, they're still comedians. Whatever we think of them, they're entertainers. I think in the case of the person I'm speaking about, that's not...

I just think that's just going to be an hour and a half of hate speech. And although we are in a situation where, yeah, some people are going to go and sit and enjoy that, that is someone who I think in the last 10 years has openly created situations for minorities to be, you know, in the most awful of situations. And I think that they've, you know, some of their views are, quite frankly,

as bad as anyone's out there. So I don't look at that and go, well, that's just going to be a night of entertainment. Like, you know, with **** for example, yeah, I don't agree with anything, but I will go, well, he's a stand-up comedian. People are going to go with the genuine idea of having a bit of a laugh.

That's the stuff that these people enjoy. With the person in question I'm talking about, they're not an entertainer. So what are you going there for? And what is that venue then hosting? Well, I mean, look, if they think there's going to be a market for that sort of thing and they're supporting it,

then it does raise the question about whether you want to be playing there. I do understand that. But the fact of the matter is your shows have gone on sale and sold out. So, you know, if I was in your position and the timing of it had been on that if it had been like before and I'd Seen the show was going, you know Yeah, I might say I'm not sure about I'm not even sure about going to that area if that's somewhere that somebody has got support you mean but In your position you can explain to the venue what how you feel about it. You can talk about it on stage

I mean, you've got you've got ways of making a difference that are more effective arguably than just pulling your shows yeah i mean um with regards to the optimistic bunny without knowing the exact details of what the issue is um this is what i think and this feels like it might feel like a cop-out to you you know what you need to do like you'll to you. You know what you need to do. Like, you'll feel it in your gut what you need to do. Do you know what I mean? And the truth is, it's like, if this venue, if the venue really is being problematic in a way that you feel uncomfortable with,

then you've got to back yourself to find another opportunity. But if you think to yourself actually although it's not ideal if I can speak to the venue and let you know and make it clear how I feel about how they behaved in that instance or whatever and then you can go ahead and do it because it is difficult to get the industry the truth is there is no black and white answer to this it's like it's very difficult for me to say what the right thing is very difficult for me and tom to say this is the right way to do it you've kind of got to find the path yourself and you will know what you feel comfortable with doing often your gut instinct is right and whatever your gut instinct is it's probably worth it's probably worth trusting that you will

know how comfortable you feel about going ahead with that and i've had instances where you know there's been certain things i've been asked to say or certain things I've been asked to do. And kind of, if you feel like it's the wrong thing to do, it probably is. If you try and intellectualise your way out of it, you'll never feel 100% right about that. So there you go. I don't know how useful that advice is,

but I hope it is. And very good luck. And good luck making your way in the industry. Keep in touch. And hopefully, who knows? Yeah. Who knows? Maybe we'll be working way in the industry. Keep in touch, and hopefully, who knows? Yeah. Who knows? Maybe we'll be working together in the future.

Okay, Tommy D. Yo. Can you do us the honour of taking us out, please, my guy? Elliot Durbin had the ingenuity one day to build the greatest sandwich ever made. made he just stared at it had all of his favorite ingredients in it fried chicken cucumber mayonnaise sausages gherkins the list went on and on i can't be here to divulge such beautiful things. And Elliot just looked at it in absolute awe. And he went to eat it and he thought,

this thing, this thing is too much of a work of art for me to even attempt to eat. I'm just going to stare at it. So he looked at it for a while and a while longer. He took a couple of pictures of it on his phone. And then he went to bed that night. In the morning, he went downstairs and the sandwich was gone he sprinted around the house as fast as he could and couldn't find anywhere it was silly really of Elliot to think that the sandwich might have grown legs and just run off but it was a

pretty amazing sandwich not capable of that though so he banged as hard as he could on his parents room and his dad answered the door he said have you seen my sandwich and his dad said oh what the beautiful big sandwich it was downstairs and he was like yeah yeah yeah he said well me and your mother ate it last night when we came home from the pub Elliot looked absolutely destroyed and his dad said it was the most delicious thing that I've ever eaten in my life. Thanks for thinking of us and leaving us such a joyful sandwich. His dad ruffled Elliot's hair and Elliot sort of smiled back at his dad. As the door closed, his dad got back into bed. Elliot thought to himself, you know what? Some things in life can be enjoyed by looking at them. But most things

are enjoyable by passing them on and the affection of someone else enjoying something you've made. And just as I'm telling this story, I'm slightly concerned about Elliot and how old he is and the fact that his parents are in the pub and both in the bed still at 11 o'clock any house the point is this and it remains it's nice to do something for yourself but it's actually kinder to do something for others even if you do it mistakenly okay that was really beautiful tom how do you feel about that one uh sort of all over the place but fine okay well

thank you so much for listening to another episode of The Wolf and Owl I was listening to the Lyricist Lounge album recently and there's a tune

on there called Body Rock by Mos Def Q-Tip and Tash from The Alcoholics which is a great tune so JT can you play us

out with that guys we will see you next time when we will be doing the long awaited Mukbang episode. And hit us with any Mukbang suggestions.

Mukbang. Bye. Trilogy, just shot myself a dime See all you feelin' me, son I'm wicked And nice when I'm on facility Let me take a sec to review what I Wrote, most definitely South Far Fresh Okay it's dope, let's record this They gon' award this, and all Area crew is gon' applaud this And when we step to the play, parts

Flawless, my man T-A-S-H Style Glory, great If you have a problem, opinion, feedback or anything at all, please email us at wolfowlpod at gmail.com. That's wolfowlpod at gmail.com. We'd love to hear from you, mainly because we don't have any content ideas. Thank you.