Wolf and Owl - S2 Ep 75: Friday Bonus & A Seinfeld Quiz

Episode Date: October 20, 2023

Before we hit the emails, Rom challenges Tom to a Seinfeld quiz and we discuss our current TV obsessions, life after reality shows and the problems with YouTube boxers. Then we answer some more of your questions - this week about how to switch off and relax whilst juggling a hectic life, making the first move with a work colleague and some inspiration for a romantic gesture. Thanks for all your messages - keep them coming at [e-mail] Instagram - @wolfowlpod TikTok - @wolfowlpodcast YouTube - www.youtube.com/WolfandOwlPodcast Merch & Mailing List - https://wolfandowlpod.com/ A Shiny Ranga Production For sales and sponsorship enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Add your voice to the mix and let fresh answer back with perfect harmony in pure Michigan. Keep it fresh at Michigan.org. Yeah. Yeah, what you want? Beak or jaws? Feathers or fur? Sharp teeth or feet with claws? Whatever's preferred. Yeah. Welcome to the Wolf and Out bonus episode Before we came on I was introducing Romesh to one of my favourite songs of all time Yeah, go on, let's hear it At flaming moles, where liquor in a mug Can warm you like a hug.

And happiness is just a flaming moles away. Oh, flaffiness, happiness. It's just a flaming mole away. It's such a good tune. What made it pop into your head? I don't know. I was just literally turning on my laptop and that popped in. There must be a there must be a bar

that serves a version of that right well you know what it was isn't it wasn't it a cough mixture yeah cough syrup and but that's the only thing i can remember from it i actually think it's one of the best episodes of simpsons ever because homer gets ostracized from the bars and he starts going and i remember there's a great scene when he goes to that other bar and asks for a drink and then he asks for a clean glass and the guy goes, oh yeah, you're on a... It's a really good, yeah. Maybe we should make this

what the podcast should be. It should be just us sort of from memory describing episodes of The Simpsons or other comedy shows that we like. What, you think we should lean more into a format? Do you remember that Seinfeld

where he... Wait, quiz me about any Seinfeld Okay Talk to me about the storyline with the free suit The free suit, so that's Banya, basically does him a favour Banya gives him a free suit

and in return for it Gerry has to go for a dinner or a lunch uh and he ends up going out with banya banya then orders a soup and he doesn't count that as a free lunch there's actually interestingly and i might get there's a british sitcom which uses pretty much the same storyline down to a t i'm trying to think which one of my shows is he referring to can we do that again because that was actually genuinely impressive yeah go again

throw me another one Elaine and the Chinese delivery so Elaine orders a Chinese delivery but it doesn't deliver to her house they've got a special

duck dish that they can do doesn't deliver to her house so basically what a special duck dish that they can do doesn't deliver to her house so basically what elaine does is she goes across the road and breaks into a janitor's closet and it has to deliver to the janitor's closet yeah and then she starts trying to get people to get delivered to their house when the guy does deliver it he realizes it that it's elaine and but there's that one there's also one with Elaine on a Chinese delivery where Elaine gets hit by a

Chinese delivery driver no she hits the driver doesn't she no no she gets hit, he hits her ankle he's on his bike, she jaywalks out in front of him yeah and then it so happens that Jerry is then being chatted to his sister or there's

something to do with his sister, who's a lawyer. And basically, Jerry's, yeah. I'm a geek when it comes to this stuff. I mean, the only thing I would say is the fish dish, not duck. Apart from that, absolutely. Oh, wow. Wowza.

But, you know, listen. Yeah, you know your Seinfeld. Yeah, it's really good. I think anyone who's... Look, Seinfeld yeah it's really good Seinfeld's a great show and if anybody out there is like thinking about how to write a sitcom

I still think it's a pretty good model of like what so when I introduced Catherine to Seinfeld right Catherine was like

oh they did this on Friends they did this on so and so and I was like yeah but Seinfeld did nearly every storyline so when I say there's an english sitcom that did the soup thing that's no because pretty much if you go and watch anything from friends to fraser to most sitcoms took something from a storyline from seinfield and did it in their own way yeah it's it's so good it's it kind of almost is the there's a lot's a lot of stuff that doesn't hold up to the modern lens, I'd say.

Do you know what I mean? There's a lot of body shaming in it. There's a lot of kind of... Yeah. Well, the fact that George, because George is actually a pretty good Nick. Yeah. And also the... Well, there's one episode, do you remember the bit where the guy's naked on the tube?

Yeah. Do you remember this? Yeah. Where Jerry's sat opposite this guy that, for some reason, strips off completely naked. Yeah. Do you remember this? Where Jerry's sat opposite this guy that for some reason strips off completely naked. Yeah. And then Jerry says, are you ashamed?

Like, aren't you embarrassed? And he goes, no, I'm not. And then Jerry goes, you should be. You know, have you thought about having a salad?

You know, like he really fucking goes in on him. Do you know what I mean? And obviously some of the ways they talk about women is a bit shabby. Yeah.

Yeah. Also, it's worth saying that they're never held up to be decent, Hugh. No, no. The whole point of Seinfeld is they're pretty much, they're not very good people. I mean, they really bring that, they really, welcome to the Seinfeld podcast, but they really bring it to an end. Like, they hammer that point home with the ending of the whole show,

don't they? Yeah, yeah. bring it to an end like they they hammer that point home with the ending of the whole show don't they yeah yeah whereas Friends I always think Friends are just too ridiculously nice and decent that

yeah I just I couldn't think of anything worse than living in a fucking block of flats with the people from Friends yeah

you'd sort of feel you were in some sort of Stepford Wives situation wouldn't you with these people yeah so you didn't like Friends is that what you're saying?

I enjoy some of Friends, yeah, no, I like Friends, we have Friends on in the house, and Catherine, it's literally playing in her house. Well,

I have one TV in the Gracie's room, that's pretty much on loop of Bluie, and the other is just Friends, and Comedy Central, or whatever it's on now, it's going over and over and over. Do you know, we're all over at the moment,

below deck. Oh my God. I cannot get enough of it and over. Do you know what? We're all over at the moment. Below deck. Oh, my God. I cannot get enough of it, man. Bro, I've watched every series. I'm obsessed with that show. Christ, that show is unbelievable. What series are you on at the moment? I'm on the Tahiti series at the moment.

Okay. I'm watching the new Mediterranean. It's slightly a bit like that. I don't want to go in on Marilyn first sight too much, but it's slightly got that fucking thing now where people know the mechanics of it like maryland first side are you watching a series you're not on the british series no i'm watching the i'm still i still haven't finished watching that bloody australia i mean why there are like a hundred episodes for each series i don't understand it's like yeah the australian one just goes on forever i know you're just watching it go this is actually daunting how much i've got to go through here this is mad yeah the english one

an hour and a half for a dinner what the fuck is going on yeah but some of those dinners are explosive yeah some of them are yeah yeah like the commitment ceremony 90 of those commitment ceremonies i couldn't give a shit about watching mate i'll fast forward for a lot of them now just get to the get to the couple that are being horrible to each other let's hear from them yeah but you know the thing is it's interesting i quite like it when people this is my problem with the english one this year right i find that too much of it is it's moved away so far from what actually the show i know it sounds mental because it's a tv show right but i used to think that they actually drew the brilliantly drew the line

between what was people looking for a relationship and what was people who clearly just wanted to be famous. Yeah. And I think they slipped into a space last year where it was like so many people just wanted to be famous and there was no one when you were watching it going, oh, they seem like they'd be quite a nice couple. And then you flip into this year and it's like,

oh, everyone just wants to be famous yeah and odiously so do you know like when x factor sort of lost the moment where you're like the the moment where leona lewis won the x factor and you're like oh that's what it's all about that's that that is a genuinely incredible singer but then the next year whatever you start going jedward rylan and i love rylan but you know all of a sudden fucking it goes up and up and up and all of a sudden you're like oh actually viewing figures see people seem to like seeing these people more than watching actually someone who's got any talent if you watch if you not that I have done this recently but if you watch any of the footage of Rylan from X Factor the idea that that guy would come go on to be first of all a really great bloke but the

i'd say bryan by the way he's one of the nicest blokes you know i totally agree and like like i'm gonna i'm gonna be absolutely honest when i saw him on x factor and i saw him start to do other bits i thought oh no man i'm gonna absolutely i mean not that my opinion matters but i was just like this is gonna be somebody that i hate do you know what I mean and like everything I was like how is he but actually he's actually really good

at what he does and when you meet him he's like one of the most genuine nice blokes you could hope to meet I mean I couldn't believe it do you know what I mean

whenever I've been in his company yeah he's just a lovely man and also brilliant at what he does he's just such a strange yeah

but then when you go back and watch like X Factor right I sometimes like you watch a clip of it like I watch this is I watch the Britain's Got Talent

when Susan Ball sang yeah and it's absolutely horrible to watch the way they look at her the way they sort of

these sort of sneery looks from fucking Holden and fucking Piers Morgan and fucking Tom and Kate. It's really brutal. But I think they might have been victim of the edit there. Because what they're trying to do is, the producers obviously knew that Susan Ball was going to sound different to how they're expecting her to, based on how she looked.

So yeah, but then the very next year year Paul Potts rocks up and they do exactly the same thing to Paul Potts yeah have you met him Paul Potts no what's he like

he's a sweet little lad he's a sweet little lad voice like an absolute banging voice but yeah I he came on a show that I did with Jamie

and Harry and yeah I sort of had like lunch on set with him and I had to rehearse because I sang with him. And when you hear about what's happened to him

since that show, it's pretty amazing the pace he's been. But then it's insane. Arguably, making a film of his life is probably a step too much. Yeah, I would say, look, it's one of them. We like to make those films in Britain, don't we? Of like a plucky underdog story that's one of the

that's one of the favourite genres of the British movie industry I said to him it's mad that they made a film of your life and he went it's insane because a lot's happened in my life

and what you sort of as someone who's in the business what you kind of get the feeling might have happened is they were like we're going to do a film of Paul Potts' life, it's so inspiring. Look at that moment in Britain's Got Talent and then got to the point where they're writing the scripts

and go, okay, Paul, what else has happened? It's gone, no, it's pretty much just Britain's Got Talent. Does it end, is the big finale him coming on the show with you and Jamie? That's, you know the bit in Wolf of Wall Street

where like you see like the anti-climax after all the money and all the success and then he's just chatting, he's selling fucking ideas and dreams. That's the fucking, yeah, it's the cold clothes. What's better than getting a small premium roast coffee and your favourite McMuffin? Getting a small premium roast coffee and your favorite McMuffin?

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Will you join me in France for a new reality show? Meet my hand-selected staff as they work, live and play at Chateau Roosevelt. Their job is to provide once-in-a-lifetime experiences for our guests and of course they'll have to meet my standards and not everybody has what it takes vanderpump villa has first-class luxury and world-class drama i'll be there will you vanderpump villa premieres april the 1st streaming on disney plus right should we need some emails my g let's do it brother oh by the way i need to shout out like there's been a lot of messages um and lovely messages about the bournemouth show i need to say something so for some reason and this is my own idiocy uh the reason apparently bournemouth isn't

selling very well is i've booked to play bournemouth which is one of the biggest nights of my tour on the same night as firework night and bournemouth completely unpredictable by the way how could you possibly have known it's like you know i tell you i did this honestly mate i i booked to do the apollo on the 25th of December, and then somebody has only fucking gone and told me it's Jesus' birthday. An absolute stitch-up. What's slightly annoying as well, alongside the fact that it's Bournemouth,

is Bournemouth have one of the biggest firework displays in England, the Garth Bournemouth Pier, on the 5th of November. So, yeah, I'm up against firework. So, yeah, I now realise that, yeah, that's probably what's happened. I can't really fight. I can't go toe-toe with Bonfire Knight, can I? Well, you are.

Yeah, I am. I'm in a fight that I can't win. I'm literally like, you know, when you see that fucking... Do you watch YouTube boxing, by the way, this weekend? Did I watch it? No. Yeah. Listen, I, well... youtube boxing by the way this weekend did i watch it no yeah i i i listen i uh well it's pretty easy because remember you're in chaos pocket a little bit oh here we go uh i uh i'm

not as much of a boxing fan as you are yeah but boxing i i would describe myself as a casual boxing fan yeah and what i do think is could i just say by the way like every now and again while i chat to you i don't even think about the voice. I'm not even thinking. The voice isn't even on my... And then you say something where you do the voice. I don't think you know you do it. Can I say something?

The idea that we even go five seconds without you thinking about the voice is so fucking ludicrous. Well, I wasn't. I was having a genuine conversation. Is that because I said casual boxing fan yeah and it's like when you said

you were like yeah so I'm not really a massive boxing fan I'm more of a casual boxing fan it's just my favourite thing you know one of my life's ambitions and I love the bones of you as you, one of my life's ambitions, and I love the bones of you, as you know.

One of my life's ambitions is for you to find me as funny as you find yourself. I do find you hilarious. Mate, I text you even after the show. Mate, I laugh most of the time. So hard at what you say. I've nearly peed my pants a couple of times.

First of all, that's utter bullshit. Second of all, most of the time when you text me to say it's been a good episode is when you think you've smashed it out of the park. No, go on. You're making a point. It's a casual boxing fan. Okay. So anyway, I'm a casual boxing fan.

But I've been frustrated by boxing. And it's not, you know, I don't know whose fault it is or whatever. I think it's a combination of things of the fights that you want to happen never happening right yeah and so i think that's partly the reason i think it's partly boxing's own fault that these youtube fights have taken off in the way they have done and i don't i've got nothing against ksi but and i don't fucking know you've got it he's been sorting your

fucking fridge out with drinks for the last year alright alright alright just just just slow your roll but there's part of me that thought

if KSI beats Tommy Fury it's such a damning indictment of boxing as a thing do you know what I mean that like I mean I know

he's obviously got so much money that he can just spend... He's obviously trained his arse off. But at the same time, Tommy Fury is from a boxing family. Do you know what I mean? I mean, I know... It was arguably one of the worst fights

I've ever watched in my life. Can I... Okay, so I have not watched the fight, right? I've watched the fallout from it. Yeah. So there's loads of KSI fans that are saying he was robbed. Is that true in your opinion? fans that are saying he was robbed. Is that true in your opinion?

I don't think he was robbed, robbed. To be fair, I thought that... To give KSI his due, like, he isn't a boxer. He's been doing boxing for a couple of years. He has obviously, like you say, he's got enough money to throw himself in to live that life. If you were watching it, arguably you'd say neither of them were professional boxers.

Like Tommy Fury, as a man who's from a fighting family, should have been putting KSI away a lot quicker than he actually did. I'd say that

I think KSI did himself pretty well. I just think it was awful. I think that genuinely, I watched the whole, like me and Catherine sat chilling. If I'm honest actually,

I fell asleep during the KSI Tommy fight and woke up cheering if I'm honest actually I fell asleep during the KSI Tommy fight and woke up like a couple of times I was dozing through it because it was so boring and I

the trouble with it is I haven't got a massive problem with the the misfits and I think you know if they're bringing if they're putting

someone like Salt Pappy who's obviously lost a lot of weight and looks incredible shape I think KSI is actually pretty incredible to go from where he's gone to to the level of fitness he's gone if that can inspire like Salt Pappy who's obviously lost a lot of weight and looks incredible shape I think KSI is actually pretty incredible to go from where he's

gone to to the level of fitness he's gone if that can inspire any youngster to get off a Playstation and train and go into actually

playing sport then job done but I do think there's a part of me that watches it thinking I also worry about the ramifications

of what are the of getting hit in the head that much like there was one fight that you're watching and you're like oh Christ these guys are getting and are they

is it suitable enough for them to be taking that sort of real boxers the avoidance of getting punched in the head I was slightly sort of but you know if it's bringing people to boxing look mate I'll pay the fucking money

and watch the thing if I'm honest like yeah it's more for the spectacle isn't it you're watching it for and you know if they have a rematch

you just hope that I don't know Tommy Fury just I kind of just I love they're not gonna have a rematch Tommy Fury ain't gonna rematch KSI

mate for the money he's earned now I wouldn't be surprised if he did he's offering out Conor McGregor now, isn't he? Well, yeah, let's probably just stop this conversation here.

It'd be good to see Tommy Fury fight a boxer, wouldn't it? Yeah. Anyway, okay, let's 10 minutes of grey, we agreed to do an email. And then you went in two-footed both on the Misfits boxing phenomenon and me.

Okay, so this is from the small spotted dogfish. And they say, to the wolf, owl and swan, I wanted to start my Sony podcast to help me out immensely. Through COVID, shit jobs, a breakup, and the first stressful year of university, you've helped me smile throughout good and hard times alike. So thank you. I'm 23.

I've started my second year of uni and have pretty high anxiety. Because of this, I hate drama and confrontation. Like Tom, I try hard to be liked. This year has become more stressful for me. I'm trying hard to maintain relationships with family and friends back home, spend quality time with my wonderful girlfriend, keep the house civil during petty drama between housemates who are constantly leaving the house in a mess,

all while trying to stay frantically stable and focus hard on my studies. It took me a while to get into uni, so I take it quite seriously after finding I can't switch off. I also come from a small town in Hampshire where nature's on my doorstep and living in a city can get to me. All this combined obviously leaves me feeling burnt out, stressed and guilty. As you both have families and careers to deal with, I can imagine it all gets on top of you. My questions to you, my questions to you, sweet souls, are how do you switch off and relax?

Also, how do you manage trying to juggle everything at once? I hope to see you both when you're touring Plymouth next year. Are you doing Plymouth, Tom? Yeah, I think I am, yeah. It's just weird because I haven't heard you plug it because I know you're plugging all the other dates. Well, I've got a few months. I'm at the moment talking you know talking about anxiety and worry

my my sort of solely focus really on Bournemouth and what fuckfest that's gonna be

yeah I mean what's gonna be really arguably as I sort of come on stage at the pavilion at the end of

that fucking pier this massive fireworks display is going off and people are gonna be sitting there

thinking oh fuck yeah the fireworks we've bought tickets for this and now we feel bad that we're here with him. So that's, yeah. If I'm honest with you, right, as you're reading this out,

and I know, I still don't think I know what the balance is. You know, I wish I could, I think as best you can, right, is imagine your life a bit like a garden garden and that you have to kind of water different you know your friendships your relationship your work your family your health and fitness and you've got to kind of keep all of those plants watered and sometimes you'll you'll focus more on certain ones than others as your life may uh know, sort of demand at that sort of certain time. But I still find it really, really hard to, number one, switch off. I find that almost impossible.

Like, you know, like yourself, Roman, me and you text about this a lot and we talk about this. We both have imposter syndrome. We both have worked very hard to get to the position we're in so you spend a lot of time knowing how lucky you are to be in that position but also knowing the work that it demands from you to stay in that position and keep working hard so that's a constant in your head uh i think you know my relationship at home is like you know as a father and a husband is like you're constantly like okay that's that's a really important thing and to try and level that

balance and make sure that you know you're good enough for both of those things yeah friendships you know I look at mates I haven't seen for ages I start thinking fucking I need to so there's a constant in my head it's a constant that is an an anxiety. Am I doing enough of any of these things? Or is there too many for me to be any good at any one of them? So I wish I could sit here and say, oh, this is how you do it. And this is the magic. This is a magic system that's going to make you feel more fulfilled in your life. I just don't think there is that thing and I think I think the one thing I've learned and tried to sort of

is that is to cut out things that like to try and remain keeping the things that are positive and try to focus on the things like

you know the friends that are positive people to have around me or people that I feel nourish me as a person enough and I enjoy being around and you know like I say my my wife my

daughter my mum and my young fat and make sure that they're the things i focus on rather than going oh you know i'm gonna start for you know i'll have to go to this pub and i have to meet these people i have near you which means that i'm gonna go and get drunk and i'm gonna end up out till two o'clock because just doing that is although i'll enjoy that one night the negative that will have for maybe a week after because i'm going to feel like shit i'm not going to feel great about myself i'm going to feel like i've let down other things it's yeah it's trying i guess to rule out the things that don't encourage you to be the best person you can be and try and alienate them a little bit more focus on the positives your university you know your relationship your family i think getting out

in nature is really important i think being out and walking and just doing those things they're the important things after you've all done too long but um yeah good luck with it man it's a hard balance yeah the garden analogy is one of the greatest things i think i've ever heard you say oh thank you well done really proud of you mate really good thank you um i've stolen it from somewhere i think yeah you must have done um i uh i sort of have i sort of agree with tom i don't think i found the balance but you've got two conflicting questions here is is how do you stop it getting on top of you and how do you switch off and relax and like juggle everything and those two things are slightly conflicting because how you avoid letting it overwhelm you is and Tom and I were actually just talking about this before we started recording um but you have to like i think throw yourself into whatever the

thing is you're doing at that time right so if you constantly have those things dancing around in your head like say for example like i say for example at the moment i am finishing scripts for this for avoidance series two and i'm doing stand up and i'm trying to make sure that um i'm spending time with the family if when i'm doing avoidance i'm thinking about the things that i'm letting that i've got going on elsewhere it's not helpful to me i have to totally be in avoidance and then when i'm working on my stand up i have to say and this is something i've only discovered recently i have to say to everybody that's waiting on avoidance scripts i'm on stand up today so don't don't expect anything back from me at the moment and people that work with me and and lisa is amazing at understanding that that's when i'm doing this and that's when i'm doing that what i would say is sometimes that can be a negative like for example if i throw myself really into stand up

i sometimes i might not be you know i might i might neglect the sitcom or i might uh not be on top of what's happening at home and so you have to kind of be aware of that and i found like communication is a key like for example yesterday we did a read-through of all the scripts and i had a busy day and i just said i i just said to lisa no i didn't say to lisa effectively i'm out of commission today do you know what i mean so it's like you kind of have to you have to kind of make sure everybody knows where you're at when you're doing these different things and then when you're doing those things it's not about thinking i've got to do all of these things today or this morning you've got to do this one thing and you put yourself into that thing and you have you're in the moment for that thing and then after that you might have something else and you move on to that i feel like compartmentalizing makes a big difference

do you mean and as tom said you've got to go you've got to keep an eye on what you might be neglecting. Do you know what I mean? So, for example, I've been busy with the stand-up tour. I've been busy with avoidance. And so the weekend before we start filming, I'm going away with Lisa and the kids because I feel like we need a bit of quality time and, you know, and have a bit of time of just being with my family. And I think it's just bits like this.

But what I would say is those are things I'm trying to do. I haven't mastered it. You know, there's lots of times where a week will go by and i think it's just bits like this and but what i would say is those are things i'm trying to do i haven't mastered it you know there's lots of times where a week will go by and i think i fucking neglected this i've neglected that and one of the big things i neglect is basic life admin i am shit at i mean every day i get an email or a text message from somebody like something to do with i don't know it'll be staying on top of something that needs to get fixed at home or um staying on top of some financing I've got to be I've got to I've supposed to responded to or the dentist or whatever you know I constantly having to apologize for not getting back you literally said that on my blood run cold because I've got a message yeah so those sort of things.

Look, the truth is it is difficult and I don't ever really feel like I'm smashing it all. But the one thing I'd say is be kind to yourself. Like you've got a lot on. And I think, you know, on one hand, you can go to yourself, fucking hell, I'm messing up everything and blah, blah, blah. Or on the other hand, you just go, I'm doing the best I can and be mindful of the fact you've just got to try and, you know, you've got to do the,

you've got to carry on doing the best you can. And as long as you're, you know, you're doing that, just be nice to yourself. Do you know what I mean? It's, um,

and I would say just as a last little thing on that is listening, going back, like when you say of all the things you're dealing with, and when you talk about the petty arguments and people squabbling in your house you know those people are they're not related to you and they they might be your friends and stuff but there's very little you can do if that's a constant that you try and sort it out and it never seems to be sorted and it'll flare up again and again there's nothing you could do about that so you can't that be the thing for me that that'll be the amount of your mental fucking ability or your mental time that'll be

fucking occupying is stuff that you can't be focusing on positive that's just a straight up negative and that's other people's shit yeah and that will weigh you down so the more you focus on that and you're not focusing on your relationship or you're not focusing on your work or you're not focusing on your family or you're not focusing on health and fucking getting out and actually doing something positive the more you're focusing on other people's negatives and trying to fucking steer that in a way that you know you think what for why am i doing this i'd say for me just let that go let them fucking squabble let them have their shit let them fucking yeah that might be a harder place to maybe look for somewhere else

in a while to live. But just go fucking allow it, man. Let them do their shit. Let them fucking argue. Let them be negative. Let them fucking squabble. Walk a higher path. And I think that genuinely will alleviate

some of the shit that you're going through. I'm wondering, small-spotted dogfish, if you're thinking that the fact that Tom and I have spent the best part of 15 minutes talking about this is that you might have touched a nerve with regards to balancing things. I'll let you be the judge of that, if you think that that might be something that dominates mine and Tom's thoughts. Maybe you could just give us some advice. Yeah, I think actually we do need it.

Okay, this is the next one from the Love lost uh llama good morning you sweet souls and sweet sweet listeners i'd like to start with a huge thanks to you both your pod has truly helped me laugh through hard times and there's always a safe space to go from there cheering up and of course big up jt cat and the swan i always said if i was going to write and i'll try to make you laugh with a fake problem to pay you back for the numerous times i've been in fits the last to listen to the pod i can't imagine you've been on this one but instead i'm going to see and i'll try to make you laugh with a fake problem to pay you back for the numerous times i've been in fits the last to listen to the pod i can't imagine you've been on this one but instead i'm going to see if you can help with something that's really troubling me i met a girl who i met a girl who joined my place of work after about four months of me being there

she had gorgeous eyes a beautiful body and a pissed off face i sorry i've started reading it like i'm becoming like dr then. I met a girl who'd joined my place of work after about four months of me being there. She had gorgeous eyes, a beautiful body and a pissed off face. I just couldn't wait to try and put a smile on. We got talking and it wasn't long I got that smile and the laugh I was looking

for. A co-worker said that they was talking to her and she said how she couldn't believe I hadn't asked for her number yet. Obviously from here things progressed. We got to know each other very well. Although we're quite different, we've had a decent conversation and like to spend time together. However, oh sorry, this is

taking a bit of a turn. However, it went to toxic. We had a big row. She changed her shift patterns and we didn't want fuck all to do with each other for about three months. Through no lack of serious trying, we've mended this and are good friends again. She calls me sweet nicknames and tells me that i'm very much part of her life i think she knows i'm head over heels but i don't know how to make a move for context i'm 31 she's 25 and we both have severe commitment and trust issues my question is this how did you make a move on your other halves

when you wanted to take the next step i have strong feelings for this woman a little insight into what i mean this is incredible what two pimp daddies like yourselves did to land such lovely ladies like the swan and the cat could really help me out here um i think like really katherine was like i thought like was like a really fast like connection on the basis we were both we were both in Nando's she was sitting on a table opposite like

with some friends I was with some friends we got chatting and then like I didn't get her number because I thought oh she's too far

she's out of my league you know this has been a nice conversation to have had but like you know she's yeah

yeah that's that's that's the premier league and it's a heady mix of uh a woman being attractive and your self-esteem i can relate to that yeah yeah um yeah i i think i spent most of the nando's worrying that fucking uh my ass was hanging out the back of a very tight pair of jeans and trying to conceal that and pull them up constantly so but then literally I remember getting out of Dev and then chatting to a couple of mates I was with

it had been very Dawson's Creek or sort of 90s sitcom fucking callback and someone saying oh you should have asked for her number and me like no no and then she followed me on Twitter. We followed back and we started bantering a bit. And it was very quick, really.

We went out for a date in London. And it was straight away. There wasn't that moment of like, oh, this might just be a friendship. We were very flirty very quickly. And it was, everything felt right. I have, however, been in the situation that this this person's in where i'm like where i've i've sort of had a moment and thought that's going to be it and then yeah i mean you've talked about i think i was mr friend zone from probably the age of about 14 up until

about 30 yeah i mean listen to give you context I still worry that I might end up in the friendzone with Lisa. I mean, that's... That's the honest truth. But I think it's really hard once... Like, once you've had a row like that and if you've got trust issues, and again, like, you know, me and Catherine have worked through that as well

and it's all ever-going work, isn't it? When you, you know me and Catherine have worked through that as well and was you know so it's all ever going work isn't it that when when you you know you've both been hurt and you've both been in situations where you you know your trust or your resolve has been tested I think it's really quite a quite a difficult thing to try and get that that back um when you've had sort of what sounds like quite a big argument and that sort of probably called into question quite a lot of, you know, different parts of each of your character. I do, however, think when it comes, and if you like her that much and she likes you,

is there's times in my life, and obviously, you know, now I'm head over heels and I adore my wife. There was times before I met Catherine where I'd often look back and think, I wish I'd probably been a bit more proactive to situations where there probably was a feeling or there probably was a moment that I could have acted on but my my confidence or my lack of any kind of yeah sort of me just feeling so sort of inadequate meant that I I didn't be more

forthright or be like you know okay yeah actually actually this is how I feel and actually being more open with that and telling someone how, you know, how I feel about them. I think even now, I think in your relationship and an ever-going thing is telling the person you're with how you feel about them and making sure that that's an open conversation that you're both having, it's how you're feeling. And, you know, know marriages relationships take work you know there's no i think that the moment you think oh you're going to get married and that's it and then you both take your foot off the gas and

you know your married life is is always a very very difficult thing you've constantly got to fucking push yourself to make sure that person knows how you feel. I'm not always great at that. I need to be better. But I think that's a very important thing in any relationship. And I think, yeah, just saying how you feel. The worst scenario is, you know, at 31, you spend the next two or three years thinking, what if I say something and never saying it?

Whereas if you say, look, this is is how i feel just be honest and be decent and and don't be overly fucking zealous but just tell the person how you think and how you feel and and that it might be a hard conversation where they tell me i say well i i don't feel that way and then you've got to respect that move on but if they turn around and say yeah well let's try and work at things which we all hope sitting here today that happens you're in and it's a good moment but anyway i hope that's helpful yeah i i think it's almost certain that if you make a move based on your email that she's into you do you mean so it feels like a very low risk situation um and i you know i don't know what your row was about but i suspect that the reason i went to toxic is because it's partly as a result of you not pushing it on to the next

step do you know i mean like when feelings are heightened or whatever and when there are feelings involved and then it doesn't go where either of the people want it to go it can get quite involved and then it doesn't go where either of the people want it to go it can get quite it can go the other way do you know what i mean i would say look um i totally relate to this i am somebody who throughout my life has never made a move because you just think you're going to get rejected and actually even to the point where i was meeting up with a i sort of got chatting to a girl that i saw regularly at a bar and we would sort of like, this sounds so tragic, but we'd, you know, it's sort of having a dance and like a drink and shit like that. And then eventually I plucked up the courage to ask her out. And then even on going

out with her, I was unable to make a move or, or make it seem like this is anything but a platonic kind of get together. It was one of the most tragic experiences of my life as she dropped me off like she'd been my chaperone for the evening. It was absolutely, truly pathetic. But I would say, look, what Tom's saying is right. Rejection is horrible, but it's better to know where you stand. Do you know what I mean? So just go for it because rejection is better than what if, I would say. Do you know what I mean so just go for it because rejection is better than what if I would say do

you know what I mean and then and even then like most people if she's decent which it sounds like she is because you've made a connection with her you'll still be able to be friends it'll be a bit awkward for a little bit but you know you don't have to run around and live in a cave after that it's just one of those things do you know what I mean but um I totally relate to this I mean it's just that thing of like you know Tom and I have often talked about this where you your self-esteem can get to a point where you think if a girl does want to be with you there must be an issue with her do you mean like that that's how that's how low you can feel about yourself at times do you know what i mean but um i i would say make it yeah make i mean i i i had a similar experience to tom i did loads

and loads of experiences where i'd never made a move or i wasn't sure if it was a friendship thing or whatever and that that that belief that it was a friendship thing was was sort of built up as you know like when you go weightlifting you build up a callus yeah um i would say the rejections had thickened my relationship callous to the point where I didn't believe that anybody... You know, you just sort of go, this just ain't going to ever happen. Or you get programmed, don't you, from your childhood, you get programmed to think I'm just not that person

that's going to have someone, do you know what I mean? Yeah. So, I mean, I sometimes... I don't know if you can tell I'm getting hesitant talking about this because I sometimes wonder that the swan might listen to this and go, fucking hell. I really have ended up with a real twat that couldn't have gone anywhere else.

That's my slight concern of this. Just constantly describing how you couldn't have had anyone and I'm just really lucky that I've got listeners just thinking, he is that lucky actually. Jesus fucking Christ. What have I done? But anyway. really lucky that i've got listeners just thinking he is that lucky actually jesus fucking christ what have i done but anyway uh i guess the the advice is uh go for it love lost llama yeah just don't do what we've done go for it don't do it in a sleazy way though do you mean just go just go i think we like each just be honest i think we like each other do Just be honest. I think we like each other. Do you want to go on a date? What's the rap that Tupac does,

which is, instead, you made it in a sleazy way? Oh, I made a G today. Yeah, but you made it in a sleazy way. Yeah. Yeah, but it's all about drug dealing and that, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. That's another thing is don't be a drug dealer.

Yeah. I would say that's a good... I would say that's a general bit of... What I would say is anybody emailing in, whatever your problem is about, that is our kind of undercurrent of advice, isn't it? Yeah, don't be a drug dealer. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, so any email, yeah, both of the emails today. Yeah, don't be a drug dealer. Because that'll add to the first guy's anxiety and the second guy's... It'll just... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ooh, French lavender soy blend candle.

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Okay. This is from the contented koala. Hi, Wolf, Al, Swan and Cat. Long time listener, first time caller. Can I just ask a question, basically, on the cat thing? Yeah. I know that the swan chooses the emails. Yeah.

What's Cat's level of engagement with this podcast? Does she listen to it? I think it's weighing slightly. Okay, go on. listen to it? I think it's waned slightly. Okay, go on. In what way? I think she, since we've moved, I don't think she listens as much as she once did. Yeah.

You know what? I think before, where we lived, a lot of people listened to the podcast, so people were mentioning it to her. And she'd chat to them, and she'd sort of listen to the podcast, so she sort of knew what was going on. I think now, less people mention it, and she'd sort of listen to the podcast. So she sort of knew what was going on. Um, I think now less people mention it.

So she sort of, and if I'm honest with you, I don't know about this one, but there's a point of me that thinks she lives with me. So she knows last thing she needs to do is listen to me talk to my, my best friend about, but both of us whine on about our problems and conversations. What I would say with regards to this one,

and she does use this podcast, but you know what you did with Seinfeld earlier? She could do that with Parenting Hell. Really? Yeah. Every time I get in the car, she's got a Parenting Hell podcast on. Wow.

She tells me that The Wolf and I is her favourite favorite podcast but all of the kids disagree well so you know Catherine's favorite podcast to she Catherine Ryan one she listens to all the time yeah and the Stephen Bartlett one hmm she lost her mind when you went on the Stephen Bartlett one yeah I know I'd love to get your opinion on this because the Stephen Bartlett one gets a little bit of the piss taken out of it doesn't it because it's sort of the whole idea is

he gets people on to make them cry look I didn't cry I think we've talked about it you came pretty close but yeah no I was talking about

sad things yeah yeah no no no but yeah by the way it's not a bad thing to cry I don't want to talk masculinity

I also will say Stephen Bartlett the ones I really enjoy I like your one I enjoyed the Seth Rogen one I do like when he gets an expert on who talks

I thought what he did recently about fasting was amazing and actually the way he talked about men understanding you prefer the expert ones it's fine

it's fine no no but he actually did some he does some really really good stuff where he actually is very open about himself

and I actually I find that as a as someone where I look at him and think, he's the sort of bloke who, in a gym or any sort of situation, I'd see at a bar, he's just got it all together. He seems like someone. And actually, when he opens up about stuff, you go, oh, shit, actually, yeah, no, he's still working out.

I dipped into the Joe Rogan podcast the other day you know not my set of views I would say just sort of open you know full disclosure right at the top but he does it for like three hours should we do a three hour episode of this

yeah maybe we could try but yeah yeah I can see the cat behind me I get the feeling that she's just heard Yeah, maybe we could try, but... Yeah. Yeah. I get the feeling now I can see the cat behind me. I get the feeling that she's just heard that I'm sort of saying she's listening to the podcast now. This is genuinely looking to how my head works. My head is now, she's heard me say that.

She's gone upstairs. She's packing some things together for her and Grace. When I open the door, she's not going to be there. Tom, can I ask you a question? Can I ask you a question? Are you under the impression this goes out live because that's an even more damning indictment of what you do on this podcast that you think that's txing as you fucking speak oh man talking of the live episode there is actually some tickets still available so if you want to come

and send in your emails oh my god oh yeah sorry can you send in your emails please put Apollo or whatever Hammersmith or whatever in the header

it's just one doing them especially for the podcast for the live one I'd love to tell you that she's doing we've not had any what I'm not in a single one

as far as I know nobody's coming to the Apollo jeez I know well that's coming to the Apollo. Jeez. I know. Well, that's the second half of the show, that means more heavy lifting. To be fair, actually now we've done two emails

and we've fucking jabbered on again. Have you got a quick one we can do? Okay. Hi, Wolf, Al and Swan. Long time listener, first time caller. I've been with my husband for over 20 years since we were teenagers, in fact,

and our relationship has only got better and better. I'm not saying he doesn't annoy the shit out of me sometimes, but we treat each other with respect, manage to contain our fights to be more irritable bickers than anything unpleasant, and we still enjoy each other's company. I would say, however, it's been a long time since either of us have done anything truly romantic

for the other person. Mostly, I'm not bothered by this, as I know that instead of big romantic gestures, we do nice little things for each other daily, like bring cups of tea, letting the other person choose what's on the telly, the big one getting the kids out of the house so the other person can have a bit of quiet time but sometimes i think i'd like to revisit a bit of romance however i think it's hard to come up with ideas of romantic jesters for a man i don't want

to just buy him something but be a bit more creative and i feel pretty uninspired what kind of romantic jesters have you or would you like to be on the receiving end of? Please keep it clean, fellas. Tom. Dream scenario. I think it is really, really important to try and keep that romance and that sort of... And you know what? Me and Catherine have had this discussion,

I think since Grace is born, you've become, and you've got three kids, you've become, you get into a situation where you're like, shit, we're parents parents and that's the main priority for both of us is and actually then you feel like oh actually yeah and we do those little things for each other i think that's important i think respecting each other and allowing you know like making sure that yeah you're you caffeine's at home with grace most days so it's like going right you know what like making sure she's getting that time to herself and she's so when you have weekends and whatever

making sure that because then i'm getting the time with grace but then it's also making sure you get that time together and weirdly i think if you focus too much on doing these big romantic gestures for you just doing it for your husband or him just doing it for you i think it becomes i think it's quite i think the idea for me i think is trying to do it for the two of you trying to do something that you're going to get the same feeling as is something special and i think that can just be as simple as just going for a nice meal together somewhere nice getting dressed up like wearing both feeling nice about yourselves you know getting a train into london wherever you live you know the city and going for a nice sit down meal having a couple of drinks just chatting and trying just to chat about each other how you're feeling and you know

reminiscing or you know i tried to me and katherine tried to you know you'll send pictures of each other from the past that make each other laugh and that then incites sometimes a bit of who you you know you who you were because you know i've been with katherine for 11 years now it's a long time you know and trying to make sure that you know and in that time you know a lot of people i think you know when you talk about romance you talk about that side of stuff which is always important but when i look at the most important thing is that we've been through is the ups and downs and the things that we've tackled and the trip especially in the last four years those have been the really tough things they've been like the hard yards and that's where i go you know what we've been through this stuff with the surrogacy with grace and the

ups and downs of that you know with everything that happened with you know what, we've been through this stuff, with the surrogacy, with Grace, and the ups and downs of that. You know, with everything that happened with the dog, and everything that we went through in that time, alongside COVID and the lockdown, was really hard times, and really pushed us at times. And actually to come out the back of that now and feel quite like, oh, actually, you know what, this feels that that's what we need to build upon. And yeah, romance is important.

And being there for each other is the most important thing. But it's making sure that you're doing that in a way that when you look back, you go, the start of that honeymoon period of your relationship is a thing you're never kind of going to emulate because that's the moment you're going to get to know each other. That's such an amazing and dizzy sort of crazy time. But you're not going to be able to replicate that because the things that you've been through in the 11 years now,

and you and your husband have been through in that time since kids, it's really hard because you know each other so well. You know the entrance. And then that's the thing to build upon. It's building that on a more solid ground. You're never going to get that sort of, you yeah well i fucking i found this out i found out that so but the butterflies still exist it's just you've got to try and nurture them in a different uh microclimate if that makes any sense so really nice use of microclimate there

um uh i would agree with everything Tom said I think sometimes doing something completely unexpected or something off the back of a detail is a really nice thing to do and I tell you why I'm saying that, I've got an example of it that The Swan did for me last night actually

so I worked all weekend, I was writing in the day away from home and then I had gigs in the evening so Saturday Sunday I was pretty much out of the house and on Sunday

Lisa and the kids had a roast dinner alright so I said as a throw away comment oh man I missed out on the roast dinner

because I love Lisa's roast dinners anyway I get home last night she's done a full roast dinner for dinner last night wow uh off the back of me and i said how come he's done this she goes oh because he said you were gutted that you missed out on it on sunday and i was like oh my god man that woman's the queen how sweet is that and i watched lisa and the kids eat a roast dinner for the second time in three days and resent it but it didn't matter because i was

happy you know and that is romance doing something for someone else that makes you feel miserable and sad and i'm joking all i'm saying is like that was such a nice thing it was such a nice surprise off the back of a throwaway comment that i'd made but it felt really really nice i think something like that would be good i'd love to give an example of something I've done for Lisa, but unfortunately, none come to mind at the moment. So, so there you go. You go away if you have a lovely weekend away. Yes, yeah. But I'm not very good at I'm not good at hiding that. So like Lisa's Lisa was very good at like not telling me that was the plan even though she planned it from when i said it whereas i booked i it was my idea to put the hotel but i can't hold

on to the information yeah i have to say straight away do you know what i mean so i don't ever do that dramatic thing of like yeah holding on to it and then going boom guess what i've done i just found i just put the i just put this i just booked it I booked it Lisa I booked it can I have my pet on the back now I booked the hotel please do you know what I mean

you're like Max from Pets at Home or what it's called what? Secret Life of Pets yeah Pets at Home yeah

anyhow let's go out there yeah alright thank you so much for listening guys peace out people I would describe this episode as 5 out of 10 but don't let that

put you off we're playing the Apollo and according to Tom we've not sold any have we not sold any tickets for it I think we've done alright I think it's ok

I think my main worry is now we haven't got a second half because we've got no emails no yeah so it could be a 45 minute show

at the moment Jorgen has gone on a holiday just before oh you are going to wages before aren't you so we should be a 45 minute show at the moment you're going to have to go on a holiday just before oh you are going to wages before aren't you so we should be

we should be fine yeah alright guys take care of yourselves see you soon bye bye bye guys if you have a problem

opinion feedback or anything at all please email us at wolfowlpod at gmail.com. That's wolfalpod at gmail.com. We'd love to hear from you, mainly because we don't have any content ideas. Thank you.