Wolf and Owl - The Manosphere & Men's Fashion Over 40

Episode Date: March 27, 2026

What do Rom and Tom make of the manosphere? Can you dress well after 40? And are they role models whether they like it or not? Rom and Tom have been watching Louis Theroux and they’ve got thoughts on the manosphere. A listener wants help finding their personal style in mid-life. And someone’s sent in a comic strip of Romesh’s stand-up. If you’ve got a problem you need solving or a burning question, the Wolf and the Owl are here for you every week. Just email us at [e-mail] A Ranga Bee Production in partnership with Platform Media 00:36 Rom's comic strip 03:08 Are Rom & Tom proud of their stand up? 09:30 Louis Theroux's Inside The Manosphere 19:59 Men's fashion over 40 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to the Wolf and Al email special. I'm trying to introduce it more quietly. You're doing a wonderful job. Please could you like and subscribe and follow us wherever you get your podcast, as well as the fact that this drops on the old YouTube. YouTube. You too. Watching as you listen and listening as you are.

When Westcham first took flight in 1996, the vibes were a bit different. People thought denim on denim was peak fashion, inline skates were everywhere, and two out of three women rocked, Rachel. While those things stayed in the 90s, one thing that hasn't is that fuzzy feeling you get when WestJetting welcomes you on board. Here's to WestJetting since 96. Travel back in time with us and actually travel with us at westjet.com slash 30 years. You don't need AI agents, which may sound weird coming from service now, the leader in AI agents. The truth is, AI agents need you. Sure, they'll process, predict, even get work done autonomously. But they don't dream, read a room,

rally a team, and they certainly don't have shower thoughts, pivotal hallway chats, or big ideas. People do. And people, when given the best AI platform, they're freed up to do the fulfilling work they want to do. To see how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com. Yeah, what do you want, beak or jaws, feathers or fur, sharp teeth or feet with claws, whatever's prefer. Just kidding, every word in his song's about to. Two grown men dressed up as a bird and a dog. This is an email special. We're going to be interacting with listeners' emails.

And there's no videos are there today. But we're asking for videos, aren't we? Still no videos. Still, yeah. I just think that puts a bit more precious. I don't feel like you have to send a video. Even if it's just you doing a wacky impression. You know when you get asked to do a video?

Yeah. Like on your phone when they go, can you just do a quick question to the Olympics team? Yeah, yeah. I have to do about seven takes minimum. I'm not that for anything that I do on socials. I think you should kick off. You're the best one at what you're doing.

so it's a beautiful thing for you to. Dear Wolf Al Cat, Swan and the Squirrel. This email has been sitting in my draft since Rommish's special was released last year on Sky. Every time I rewrite it, it becomes an essay when really all I want to do is tell you both how much I love the podcast and send you a silly little comic I drew of Rommish

after watching his hustle special. After watching it, I drew this comic depicting a routine that left me teary with laughter, but also left me feeling vindicated, reassured and seen. Is this my standard? I can't be. At the time, I was working at a place that was slowly crushing me with each shift,

not really know in which direction I wanted to go career-wise. But watching your special was a reminder I needed that the job didn't fucking matter. I tell you, I want this to be my legacy. I was reminded it was okay to turn up, do the bare minimum, leave at the same end of the top. And I did that until I found something different.

I'm now working somewhere I enjoy with people of supportive kind and become real friends. Oh my God! This is lovely. This is nice. You're both making a difference even if sometimes you don't believe it. That's wonderful, isn't it?

Should we see the comic? Yes, have a look at the comic. This is exciting. Wow. Oh, God. So it's actually literally a comic of my stand-up. If you're lucky enough to be doing a job you love. Oh, God, this is actually my routine.

If you're lucky enough you're doing the job of your dreams, then sure, work as hard as you possibly can. But if you're not, pause. He's done the eye. I was about saying he's been really good not to do the eye, and then he's gone for the eye. But actually, do you know what? Some people overdo the eye in cartoons, and he's actually... He's done it just right, hasn't he? So there you go.

Or not so we're being presumptuous, we think this is a he. it could be a she. That's true actually. Yeah. Good point. Thank you so much for you. That's so lovely. That is amazing.

That's really nice. By the way, his art is his drawing is incredible. Well, you've made an assumption that's in. Yeah. Okay. There, sorry, there. Yeah. Yeah.

That's really sweet, isn't it? Yeah, it's very nice. Thanks Tomtit. It's really nice. You know, you sort of don't think that your stand-up's going to... I mean, I'm not saying that Tomtit got a new job because of my stand-up. Well, it sounds like you did. Or she?

Or she. It sounded like they did. It's what's beautiful. they've left there and something you've said has had such an everlasting resonated with them. It's really nice. Do you get proud of your stand-up? My stand-up, no. I'm actually being very

dramatic. I think with stand-up, I'm always in a place that it could be better and I can need to push myself harder and harder, which is actually quite a negative way in what they're talking about and watching your stand-up. I think, you know, then talking to you's a different thing, but no, because you're very hard on yourself too, and I'm by nature very hard on myself.

because everything I've done is average. No, no, no, no. Subpar. Mediocre. Getting away with it. Pilot high, sell it cheap. Welcome to the wolf for now. I don't think that's true.

I think you're being very... No, no, but the truth, I am being a prick. I'm deliberately being a prick there. But I do think like... You know, I remember you saying, that me saying this was quite depressing, but I do love doing stand-up

is my favourite thing to do. But every time I do a stand-up show, I think that wasn't the one. Yeah, but can I just say it? And this is the thing, and what they're saying here. And I said this about your life special. And I think I've said it to you.

And I've talked about this on other podcasts. When I saw that special, I actually thought like that's, you're getting to a level where you are saying stuff that isn't just funny, that has also a meaning. And that's what that routine. No,

it was really funny. No, but what I'm saying is someone's taking that, laughed at it, thought it was amazing, but actually has had a, just changed how they thought about life. Yeah.

That's what, that's where stand-up's incredible. I don't think that's necessarily going to happen with me, comparing myself to Tyson Fury as a boxer. And so my point is, and that's what I've now gone, I try with my show, is how do you make something different? How do you talk about something, make it funny, but it also resonates and it actually has a

meaning? Yeah, it doesn't have to, though. No, it doesn't have to, but it's good. It's an incredible thing when you watch, like yourself, and people who are, you know, Kev does it a lot, and then you see, you know, obviously the best at it, Chappelle, rock, whatever. I mean, I know Chappelle's become slightly controversial because of the trans stuff. when, like, didn't it, I didn't you, I did if you watch his last special. Yeah, I did, yeah.

It's not as funny a special, I wouldn't say. No. But there is something about him. Yeah. Like, when he talks, you do want to listen. And he's just got this kind of thought-provoking his way of, you know, I think, like, really good comedians, they open up a door and go, this is how I see the world. And you definitely get that with Chappelle.

Yeah. I feel like it's kind of magic. I actually think, like, now it's a shame that all the stand-up you see online. And I'm not criticise. anybody that does this, but it's all fucking crowd work. Yeah, but that is... Because you sort of think about the best stand-up. It's a different medium, though, that is...

I know, but the problem... I do... I actually think it's damaging. I actually feel quite strongly about this. I get... I get why individuals are doing it. I do get it. And actually, I respect it, because you and I are both talking as people

who are privileged enough to have TV commissioners and broadcasters pick us up and put us on their things, right? So if you're not... If you don't have that level of luck or privilege or being in the right place at the right time, you've then got a thing to say how do I get myself out there and online is the way right and the

appetite for it is raracious so you've got to keep putting stuff up writing stand-up is difficult so crowd work is the easiest thing to generate yeah the problem is is if you're a punter who doesn't really know about stand-up and you look up stand-up comedy online all you're seeing is is stand-up comedies ripping the shit out of like some guy in the front row or whatever and then you're obviously going to think that's all it is and then you think about the really great routines. Like I sort of think about, you know, fucking everything from like Richard Pryor

talking about his grandma flushing his coat down the top or, you know, him flushing his coat down the top. Although those things like crafted and beautiful and amazing and I think that's a shame. But my thing is, though, when I say the different mediums in a sense that I think that the specials in which you watch and you sit and you're going to watch the special and like you talk about Chappelle or when Bill Burr dropped his last one

or whatever and you're sitting and watching that as an hour that I sit and I go right that's an hour of comedy I'm going to sit and watch that's a different thing from sitting there and like you said there's some people out there now who like you know it's doggy dog and they've got to get notice as people are sending out arenas on the basis of crowdwork and shout out to them because they're doing what they've got to do and I respect it. It's a different it's a massively different thing

to go right that's my special of what is routines and tight work routines and maybe it'll be the evolution for that person when they go I personally, I find crowd work really difficult because I find at times, like, walking the line of, and also, I try to constantly, I might do new material based on the place that I'm at, like, you know, this, I'm at this place. So I have a few jokes about that area.

I have a bit of a laugh about that area, but I find having too much crowd work starts, I did it the other night, I ended up chatting someone, and it completely just took the whole act down. It's a show. It's a very different thing. When I got into comedy, it was like, stand-up, it was like, the people I wanted to be like, told stories that had jokes, they had routines, that was always what I've tried to be.

It's a very different thing. And I think that, you know, but I also then think the game is changing. You have to release more, so you have to show more stuff. Yeah. Yeah, you know, you went out in a situation. If you have got to burn it before the tour's even gone out. Because actually, once the special's out, you're like, you're on, you're on. to the next thing and the next thing after that.

Yeah. But also I think with your special and my special, I've heard it very hard to then cut out clips from that special with callbacks or whatever you're doing. And to have the same sense. Mine's such an intricate web. Do you know what I mean? It's like Game of Thrones to sort of select one little 30 second observation

and put it out there. It's disgusting. You know? What are we doing? Chopping art into little pieces and throwing it to the fucking pigeons. You should do it like one of those, like the little minute long things the dramas that the Chinese people are doing

they like you put out a clip yeah it's just so can I say by the way but me and you're like dinosaurs now is the basis that we think too much about because we've been conditioned in a world where we've thought about and we've written stuff and we've made stuff the world has changed

and actually people just shit it out yeah but that is true quantity over quality my friend people just put out any of stuff And that's coming from me, Mr. 22 TV. At Desjardin, our business is helping yours. We are here to support your business through every stage of growth, from your first pitch to your first acquisition.

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Learn more at aboutamazon.ca. Shows. Okay, should we do the next one? Talking of TV shows, you've actually been quite entwined, didn't it? I'm just looking over here, and I can see what it's about. Well, we're about talking about inside the manosphere. Am I fucking entwined?

No, no, no, no. But your interview with Louis III, I think actually is one of the best interviews I've seen in a long, long time. I thought it's fucking fascinating and brilliant. Oh, thanks, my Jew. I was talking about it with some people. I was up in Glasgow. What people?

Sort of influenced, influential people. Yeah, industry people. No, no, no, I was out with Ed Matthews and H. H.S. TikToky for Colobitz. No, Tom David. It's not a P-Doh. I didn't say that I knew you. Hi, gents.

I'm currently struggling to sleep after watching Louie through inside the manosphere. It's honestly left me raging in this one-and-a-half-hour doc. Louis follows male influence who preach sexism, racism, homophobia and more. The fact that these absolute morons have enough of a platform to profit their garbage is one thing. But the fact that so many young lads are being drawn in towards their content is terrifying. On the other hand, I've listened to your podcast for a long time and can be in more admiration. you're both the sort of gents young men should be looking up to. You're promoting of love, equality, morality will be making a huge difference.

My question is, as guys, how do we best promote the right messages for young lads? And what can we do best to undermine stupidity coming from these podcast pillocks? Thank you for all you do, the uneasy eagle. Thank you for your message, uneasy eagle. Yeah. Have you watched Inside the Manist? Yes, I have, yeah. Okay, what's your take?

I think firstly, it's, I mean, it's nothing more. different really than snake or salesman right that's at the heart of everything is as a money-making scheme and then trying to make money I think that I think that the worry I think the worrying thing for me one of the biggest things I was aware of these people for quite some time because of what we do for a living and you're on social media so you see these these people out there and what they're doing and also I weirdly have seen the evolution of it just from you know from clips where you go okay they've started with, you know, pranks and fucking about

and then it becomes a little bit more dark and a little bit more, you know, it has that edge. But what actually I thought was more worrying than anything and credit to you and Louis when you were chatting and Louis through and the documentary in general is that how many people are completely unaware of it. I think the first thing that that signals to me is how many people I talk to who have got children

who had no idea that this was happening. And to bring something like mainstream, so more people are talking about it, I think it's a conversation that's worth having. I think there's also like a, there's a side of this, which is also very much like it feeds into something that is generationally and going back a long time, the fact that how many people are lost and looking for answers. And actually when I was watching that as a documentary and now sitting here as a 46-year-old man who has been through a lot of different things in my life and everything, but actually the way that that is done and the way that they speak out to each other. speak to people who are lost, people who have sort of society is cast aside or people who haven't got any hope or haven't got anyone who, people who are looking to find their place in life,

the fact that they pick on a vulnerability of a person. And I look at it and go, wow, actually, you know, what in my younger years when, you know, having, you know, being the person I was in the life or was, would I have been susceptible to that? I've had to ask, you have to ask a question because, you know, if you're not seen or you know, there's, you know, there's an element of it that is reaching. It's very, very cleverly planned out. It's very cleverly mapped. So I actually weirdly think in your email, the thing of, I think when you hear certain people talk about, people call them stupid or whatever, then I think there are a lot of things. I don't think they're that.

I think they're very manipulative. I think they're, and I think hopefully what this has done now is shown more of a light on what they're doing and how they're working. And actually I think what we should be doing as society here is not, is working out why this has happened rather than, rather than, you know, being aggressively judgment or it's just like work out what has gone wrong. If you look at someone like HS TikTok, you went to a private school, what is a situation that he's found himself in this. And also, people are searching out for answers from him. People are then trying to beat him into a place to go, you know, what, you know, you shouldn't do this. You shouldn't feel like that. The thing I think we should try. to be doing is going, how do we rectify the situation? This isn't a problem in the future and how is this, this becomes less of a thing that happens. And that it raises a lot of questions as to, like I say, forgotten people. People aren't doing well at school. People aren't particularly have got good jobs. And that is a thing that has been coming down a pipe for quite some time. And I think society, we have to, we have to get together and go, right, this is, this is an awful

part of society. This is an awful thing that we've kind of let happen. We've let it grow very slowly and manufacture itself into what is now a multi-million pound business that is not only taking money from young men but it's also giving them a moral compass it is completely wavered

in the wrong direction. So I just think yeah, as scary as it was and it was a horrible thing to watch, I think everyone should have to sit and watch it. And then I think instead of aggressively shouting at these men, I think we should go right, how do we come together and how do we

try to resolve this in a way that this isn't going to be something that we're dealing with in 10, 20 years. That's, guess, at least worth it. Really well put. Beautiful, eloquent. I thought you displayed a level of attractiveness that I admired as you were delivering all that. I think it was really, really nice. I didn't really feel angry at watching it. I mean, I've got three boys.

And I'm fortunate enough that they think these people are knobs, basically. but it might not have been like that they might not have done but I was sort of thinking about why our boys don't aren't looking up to those guys and you sort of look at the people

that Louis was chatting to in that documentary and they're all pretty disenfranchised and they're all like you know they've they feel disconnected and that's often where like people like you know people like these sort of influences is often where they can profit is by picking up those people

that have sort of fallen through the cracks. You know what I mean? They feel like they've been let down and et cetera, et cetera, and said that these people put an arm around them and go, hey man, you're supposed to be a fucking hero and these people are, you know,

these people are letting you down and all this shit. And I think that the truth of it is, is I wouldn't advocate a ban on these sort of people personally. I think, you know, if they want to say those things, they want to say those things. If you're asking me,

I mean, first of all, I don't think Tom and I are role models, and I don't think we should be. No, no, I don't think But But it's very kind words But I think What you need to do in order to combat those sort of people Is to try and stop those people falling through the cracks

And you know, a lot of the time You know, people It's bought young men that are falling victim To, for want of a better phrase, To these influences And I think You want to make sure that they feel supported enough and you instill them with enough of the right attitudes

that they are able to reject those kind of ways of thinking about women and, you know, queer people and minorities and all of those kind of things. I think that it's about instilling enough of those values. It's the same way when you're sending your kids off into the world, they are going to face horrible shit. And what you've got to do is, you know, I think about the fact that, you know,

my parents, I was never under any doubt, that my parents love me, but I got some shit. And I, you know, you get involved in some horrible stuff. But that's the thing like that you're, like in this email, they're talking about me and you talking now.

And like you said, we're not role models. But if I look back and think of me in my 20s and the, you know, person I was trying to work out who I was, you know, were you susceptible to people who were like,

you know, alphas and people who almost fought against the system. Yeah, you come up against them. So you, so you, and also I don't think I was ever, strong enough back there as a character to fight back against that so probably was more of a sheep than I would be now as a 46 year old man

who's been through quite a lot in my life but had to make some mistakes, had to have things in my life that didn't go right, had to be put in situations where I was vulnerable or that those people would let me down and I think that's the thing, exactly what you're saying, but I think it's a really easy thing to sit here

as to men at the age we are who, who... old. It's very easy then to just cast a judgment and to people who are in there, what mid to late 20s. Also, by the way, you think,

you know, in that, I think they said some abhorrent stuff about homosexuality, sexism, racism, but they're also an element of it that was, it's just for clicks.

And that's the other thing that we've all built. But I do think like, it's like, Theo, my eldest, he knows that it's just for cliques. Yeah. So he sort of sees it as like, They're just chatting in the old shit to get some attention.

Yeah, of course. And he doesn't see them as relevant. But that I think is, I'm not saying that I'm, you know, I'm not saying I'm a great parent. I'm not. But I think Lisa's a great mom. But I think that is because Theo has been talked to about positive attitudes towards these people and for all of his life. And he's got those morals and values and stuff instilled in him so that he's able to take, he's got a degree. separation between himself and what he's watching.

Yeah. And not everybody has that. And in answer to your question, I think it's about reaching out to young lads and making them feel part of something and making them feel valued because when we let them down as a society, and that sounds a bit worthy, that is when they'll head in that direction. Of course. That's when they'll gravitate towards these people. So, yeah, I mean, the answer is I don't have the answer. But, you know, I'm just sick of men being fucking held down. You know, all we want to to do is fuck and eat a sandwich. Am I right?

Hello Tom and Rom. Sorry for the lack of animal intro, but I can't think of an animal for myself, so I thought I'd go old school on the names. Anyway, the last few pods you've spoken about style choices in midlife. I'm 48 of a similar age to you both. With the 90s being my most important years for fashion, my style hasn't changed much. Baggy jeans. I mean, that's very, very on trend.

Yeah. Did I say that out loud? It's very eggy, friend. It was very eager. And a bit of skate trainer porn with a carefully selected t-shirt or viny. vintage buttoned up shirt. I love this. Oh, that's a good look. I live in a sea of skinny jeans and poor skater trainer choices for years.

And now all of a sudden the kids are dressing like it's the 90s and I've got the choice of stuff I want. But unfortunately, look like I'm going through a midlife crisis and keeping up with the kids. Not really asking advice, but wanted to show solidarity in your pain of approaching 50 fashion. I say, stay strong, brothers. We own that shit first and you both look sharp. Love and peas. Ben. Do you know what?

I want to, well, you go first. well I think number one is I think fuck the haters man I also think it's there's a great put there's a great in Instagram where a guy does a thing where he's like you shouldn't wear this in your 40s and then he wears it and he's like well

fuck who the fuck who makes that choice but I think there's I also like to Penn's point I got sucked into the skinny jeans thing far too much far too much embarrassingly so and now actually we're

whatever the fashion is, I feel like I've now actually come to, okay, this is something, the couple clothes in which I wear, I'm very comfortable in. I think, I care less about people going, are you trying to, not your age or whatever. I'm kind of just, I've navigated into a place where I actually feel, probably for the first time in my life, actually, this is, this works okay for me. Skinny jeans was the worst thing, especially also, I was probably about seven stone heavier.

I am now a pair of skinny jeans with a big muffin top. It was, yeah. I loved it. I looked back at some of those looks. But I think you should just do it. And I say this to do you, brother. Yeah. I genuinely do think, like, if you just own it.

Do you know what I mean, it's like whatever you want to wear, just wear it? You're looking drippy as, you're looking as drippy as compete by. Thanks. You've got a level of drip. No, but you're, like the baggy jumper look that you were wearing the other day. very nice sexy but what I would say is

I think you just pick your look own it actually part of it is the way you carry it off most people don't give a shit what you're wearing anyway so just wear what you like no mom's I remember my mom's saying to me when I was younger and I was going out for a night and she went no one's looking at you anyway

which was pretty much indicative of my smile at you I don't think that's I mean I don't know how with the tone in which it was delivered but that doesn't sound that positive No, no, no, but it was in a sweeter way than that. I'm probably being, yeah, I think, yeah, just run your course, baby.

Run your course, baby. Look how you want to look. Do what you want, wear what you want. Can I say? I might wear a skirt on the next episode. I feel like you saying, but John, our guy John and the producer John, he's got a look, man. I look at his look. It's a good look. He's almost certainly got, he's definitely got a look. Yeah, but I look at John. No, but he wears a look well.

He's got a look. He's gone, you know what? I stick on this. Yeah, I don't give a fuck. This is my line in the sand. I don't care. This is what John is doing. Yeah. I don't care if tradition is fake.

How old are you, John? 34. 34. Why are we even talking to John? I'm just saying that 34, I was... He's fucking 13 years younger than us. What he doesn't need, he is not thinking, I hope these two old, give me validation.

He doesn't give a shit. But I'm saying, when I was John's age, I was wearing, like, yeah, skinny jeans. Yeah. Yeah, vest tops. You won't wearing vest tops? No. I think I had a vest top. I went for a vest top with a shirt over it, face.

Yeah. studded caps I had so many von Dutch caps I did yeah overnight it just went out of fashion just dead well I went past the von Dutch shop the other day yeah it's coming back

yeah it's coming back yeah it's coming back if you held on to that Von Dutch stuff Duff the old camo cap Anyway that's all we got time for on the Wolf and our email special please do email in Wolfelpod at gmo.com Remember to like and subscribe

if you want to send videos you can If you want to send a voice note you can Picture you can Comic We had a first comic. Yeah, we had our first comic today. That comic will be released and it will be out on our Instagram page. That is the war for now.

We haven't got permission to do that or anything. Well, if he gives us permission, if they give us permission. Get back in touch. Yeah. We'll see you next time, motherfuckers. Keep well.