Wolf and Owl - The Traitors, Therapy and Bathroom Etiquette

Episode Date: August 10, 2026

How do you deal with people who don't like you? The Wolf and the Owl join us again to talk about therapy, cortisol, managing stress and accepting that sometimes people just aren't going to vibe with you. From an insight into Tom’s bedtime routine, to discussing the dangers of leaving your emotional "tabs" open and an important debate on poo etiquette, it's a varied episode packed with role plays, scenarios and advice. Plus, Tom pushes Rom to spill some of the The Traitors tea and discuss why spoilers might be the worst thing about modern TV. A Ranga Bee Production in partnership with Platform Media. Chapters 00:00 Intro 01:01 A sleep situation 06:25 Cortisol conversation 08:26 Therapy talk 11:40 A role play on speaking up 16:54 A stomach rumble interruption 17:26 Wrong words and Trumpism 19:45 Tom’s bathroom window beef 21:43 An awkward scenario 25:31 Poo etiquette 33:30 Method acting 35:04 How Tom deals with haters 38:28 Tom wants to talk Traitors 42:23 Not being liked 45:59 Tom’s Outro Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello And welcome To the wolf and the owl Yo, Rami Rami, are you ready to podcast Rami? Rami. Rami.

I think we've got a really pressing matter, by the way. What? So Jean has made quite a lot of appearances now He's become quite a feature of that. It feels obtuse that he doesn't have an animal's name. I think the coyote Like, said the wily coyote, smelly smelly

he smells nice he smells good sorry I'm just trying to think of the most horrible things I can say hyena I think the coyote you have for the coyote I like that okay you're in as a coyote yeah the wolf the owl and the coyotes like and subscribe yeah

yeah what you want be it or jaws feathers or fur sharp teeth or feet with claws whatever's prefer just kidding every word in his songs about two grown men dressed up as a bird and a dog um So we've got a bit of a situation. You have got an erection? Uh-huh.

You're so brave as those trousers, by the way. With Mickey trips. That is an insane thing. Yeah, but I've told you. You don't suffer. You're fucking immune to them. I'm not immune, but I've got a technique. Yeah, you did a...

I do the U-Bend, the U-Bend finger. Yeah. I've tried that. It doesn't work. It works for me. Yeah. I've got a strong urine. Yeah.

Unfortunately, very weak pronunciation. I love it. By the way, I know you're tired now. Well, how do you know? Because I'm getting shitty. Yeah, I can feel the tired. You're like a little baby. You're like a three-year-old who goes to bed. I'm quite tired. I'm quite sleepy, though. You've got a sleep in a bit. How is you sleeping? Well, I've started...

So, do you remember many, many moons ago I talked about magnesium butter? Yeah. And then I got fed up with rubbing that on myself before bed. So I've now got a spray. What? Where comes? spray? It's like a joint spray but it helps you sleep. Oh you know, I've got that. So I've been doing that. I've been trying to stay off my

phone before bed. That's not always worked. Yeah. The aroused meditation. Any more erections when you meditate? No more erections. That happened once. But the other thing that's... Someone asked me about that on the train. What did they say? They whispered it sort of like that we were both there.

I thought how about we've got an erection when he was meditating? We laugh together. It was quite nice. I think I need to move my bedtime earlier. What time are you going to bed? I normally start to think about going to bed about 11 o'clock. What? Is that late?

9 o'clock for me. You're not in bed. But yeah, but we're comedians. Yeah, no, if I'm gigging, obviously. No, I know that. Opening over. Thanks a lot, guys. You're not only opening to do a gig at 6.8.

No, what I mean is that's what worries me is because, if you're going to bed at 9 o'clock and then you go on tour, then what you're doing is you're having to perform during a time when you'd normally be asleep. That's what makes me worried. My thinking is I'm resting, like an animal,

I'm resting amongst that other time. That's where I'm catching up my sleep. You go to bed at 9 o'clock? 9 o'clock. So you don't watch any post-watershed television? No, no. You said you start thinking about going to bed. Right.

So 9 o'clock you start thinking about. 9 o'clock I go, okay, I'm going to go out, have my shower, go through my bedtime rituals. Talk me through your bedtime rituals, please? They've become more and more now. Great, great news. Always a poo.

Always trying to have. a poo before bed. Don't want to risk that. Risk what? No, just having to get up in night. I think the problem is you're quite, if you don't, if you need a poo before bed and you don't do it, you're very far too. Yeah, and also you don't want to wake up at four in a morning.

I've done that one. I'm more than one occasion. Yeah, I'd rather clean out for the day. Look out the handbag. And then I have a shower with some lavender, like a lavender wash. Nice. Um, brush your old bricks. Uh, I've been put, I've got this new bald stuff.

Oh, is he's not brushing your teeth? Yeah. Okay. Thank God. Um, what did you think it was? I don't know. Brush the old bricks. I thought, has you got a special flannel for his testicles or something?

Um, uh, and then I've been, I've got this new stuff that you, for bald guys. Yeah. Like an SPF used you in a day. Right. And they create, like an after cream that you use in the evening. Okay. So I've been doing that. I do that.

Uh, I do a little bit of breathing. I do the 426. Yeah, you should be breathing all night, really. Yeah. I hold my breath. I'm sitting there's asleep. Yeah. I tape up my nose and my mouth.

I did a 4-2-6 breathing method. So took me through that? Four seconds in, two seconds, hold for two, six seconds out. It's really good for your heart, apparently. Right. Have you heard the thing about, you know, about cortisol? Yeah. Corosol, by the way, is the biggest prick in your body.

It does some good stuff, but cortisol is a fuck. That's why a lot of us have guts is cortisol. Yeah. It's like cortisol, high. hold you, that's where you hold all your fat. Apparently you can lower your cortisol levels by just sticking your tongue out for a while. Really? Yeah.

How long? For about 40 seconds. 40 seconds. Yeah, you stick your tongue out, it lowers your cortisol levels. You should do that every night. I think the one I read was like, it was like five times, you do it five times back to back, 40 seconds, back in. 40 seconds, back in. Right.

And then by the time we've done that, you actually, that's one of the most effective. I don't know if it's one of the most effective. Because that's what the breathing is going to do as well, right? So if you do the breathing, I mean, that's almost 10 minutes of, Have you heard about this? Also, the other thing that spikes your cortisol, or keeps cortisol levels high. So apparently the written, by the way,

please don't, I'm not a doctor, this is just stuff I've read. So quarters or levels. You're well read, though, when it comes to this stuff. Well, not particularly not as well read as like to be, but, you know, I've got a family and a burgeoning career to take care of. But, um... Wow.

It's weird because you went from doing the violin to doing the vocal, didn't you? Yeah. You didn't really make a decision about what you were doing when you started. No, it was... Oh, I see. Okay. That's the... Throw another bone my way. Um...

So, uh... What was it? Hey, y'all's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair.

There's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit wayfair.ca. Wayfair, every style, every home. Oh yeah, so cortisol levels. Yeah. So cortisol makes your body hold on to fat because it feels like there's an emergency on the way.

Yeah, it's fight and flight. Yeah. So there's lots of things that stress and all of that. It's all stress-related. But apparently there's lots of little things that we do that contribute to our cortisol levels. For example, you know when you have something that you're dreading a little bit? Yeah.

Like, say, for example, you've got to make a phone call to your accountant. That's sort of the example which brings to my mind. Not that I don't like my accountant, but... Nice guy? Yeah, really nice guy. What's his name? Ian? Yeah.

That's genuinely quite an accounting name. Yeah, very nice guy. Ian Butterworth? No. Okay. One of the guesses, surname. All right, I'll give you three guesses. Okay.

Ian Butterworth, that's my first. Okay. Ian Armstrong? Yes. Fuck off. It's Ian Armstrong. Really? Yeah.

Are you joking? No. Are you serious? Yeah. Wow. Well, fucking hell. I mean, I'd have preferred if it was Ian Battlewurst, but Armstrong. Tell me!

I just, it isn't, but I just don't want you to do three of those. Oh, okay. Greaves? No. No. My third one is. Okay. If you leave, if you don't make that phone calls, so for example, it occurs to you in the morning.

I've got to phone my accountant. Yep. And then you don't phone your account. That's like keeping a tab open, right? And so if you've got a few of those things where you've got to do things like that, or you haven't finished a script that you're trying to work on or whatever, or you've got to talk to a family member about something, or whatever it is, you know, these little tiny stresses,

if you go to bed with those still open, it maintains your high quarters of all. Wow, that's fucking mad. So actually it's in your interest to... Clothes as many... Yeah, to actually... It's like an advent calendar. Grab the thorn by the... grab the nettle by the... thorn

by the grasped a nettle yeah you know that's what you're supposed to do have you been

better at doing that well without wanting to divulge too much personal information I've been having regular therapy

recently okay cool one of the things that my therapist said aside from the fact I think I shared with you

that he told me that he's that can't remember a time he's spoken to somebody that talks as negatively

about themselves as I do yeah the other thing he said was is that I am not I need to own my feelings more.

So what that means is, if you do something to upset me, or say I feel aggrieved at something you've done or I'm annoyed by something you've done, he says, we didn't use you as an example, by the way, but my default setting is that I will just keep it to myself or just live with it, right?

I think I mean, I do that. And that leads to ongoing resentment and then it might lead to a bigger falling out in the future because these, you know, like, you know, we've all had this with our partners where you, you don't say something, then something else happens and something else. Then by the end of it, you've got a six-month record of all of the things that they've done that have fucked off, essentially the same misdemeanor in your mind, but you've not spoken about it at the time. So what he said was, is that I need to get better at saying what I think,

or saying what I feel about something and worrying less about the other. So say if you do something to upset me, if I say to you, do you know... Like if I wipe my ass with your t-shirt, for example. Yeah. I mean, I don't think I'd have a problem in saying that I was annoyed about that. That is not something that I would keep to myself. I wouldn't go fucking, I don't want to upset Tom and make him think that's not the right thing to do. All right.

Okay. Okay, so like, say for example. Here's an example. Say, for example, we were out with a group of work colleagues. Yeah. We're working on a... So we're out with John, Will, Big Ben. Not people that work for us.

I'm about colleagues, right? I don't mean staff. No, say we're up for a group. Josh, Robbie B. Yeah, I'm joking. Ben, John and Will, right? Say we're out with them. John's dancing, probably.

Yeah, you know what he's like. Yeah, taking his tie off. Waving up above his head. Swinging above his head like a lasso. Yeah, actually appropriately, a lot like Coyote Ugly. It's 10 a.m. at Chiquitos. Yeah, yeah. On a trading estate somewhere.

Yeah, okay. And then you started taking the piss out of me. Yeah. But doing it in a way that was a bit... Like, you know, say you got carried away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm trying to think of an example that would be close to something you would do.

Where you really started, like, warming to your theme and started humiliating. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, like, I found it upsetting. Yeah. So... Like, I've basically done it, so Benlon joins in. Everyone's, like, ridiculing me over. The waiter comes in and goes, well, get a tip here.

If I take a mick out of this, sneak. Yeah, so I just have a terrible time, right? Yeah, okay. So one choice is to just keep it to yourself and be really upset about it. The other thing is to go, you know, you do it in a polite way and at the right time, but I would say, look, to be honest with you,

in fact, we can roll play if you want. Okay, cool. So imagine, so let's both, let's exaggerate, we'll have to slightly turn up, because we're not playing a character now. Okay. You're being you, I'm being me. Okay.

But let's slightly turn up our issues. So you're a bit bullshit than you normally be. Okay. And I'm a bit more timid than I'd normally be. Okay. The vegan stuff's for old stink here. Oh, shut up, John. That's enough now, mate.

Oh, what was that, Ben? Oh, give it to him a little harder than that, mate. Do you think John should put his pants back on? Ron, mate. Why are you spawning it? John's having a good time. He works really hard. And if you want it to fart on your burger, you should lay him.

Tom, can I have a quick word, please? Yeah, okay. Where is it, mate? You're all right. You're not going to cry again, are you? No, I'm not going to cry. I just think, well, what was that? Sort of silences make me feel uncomfortable.

Okay, well, I was talking, so it wasn't actually silent. All right, okay. I've got to say, I think you're being a little bit. What have I done? Well, you've not done anything wrong, but I just want to say the way that you are sort of cheerleading this kind of piss taking out of me. Okay.

I actually find it quite upsetting. Wow, okay. And it's sort of making this, it's making this evening a lot less enjoyable for me, to be honest. Well, you know what? It's, I felt uncomfortable. So I've overstepped the mark and I realized that. and actually I feel really, really bad about it

and I didn't want you to have a bad time but I wondered everyone else to have a good time. And I totally get that, I totally get that. And you've become the door mat to the entrance into having a good time and that's not fair on you. So should I order some mahitos and get everyone to stop? That would be amazing. Okay.

Hey guys, I know we've had a laugh, we've sort of joked her over, Ramesh said. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I didn't want you to do like a little... Can I have another word with you over here, please? Sorry, guys, be back in a minute. Oh, John, John, get us another man, here, and another stella. John, please put your dick away.

Where is it, mate? You're right. Yeah, I didn't really want you to make a big thing of it. Well, it's quite a big thing. I know, but then it becomes a bit more of an instant. And you're basically all of our boss. So it's sort of like everyone would be really, really upset about the fact you're upset. Yeah, that's something.

I don't think you should say something. I think let it kind of. Okay, right. It doesn't have to be a big thing. Okay. Okay. Right. Then we go back to the table on wheels, like, I don't know, put a pin on your

seat, so you sit down. Will, you fucking idiot, Rom's already upset, mate. What, what, what, could I have another, could have another quick word? John, balls away. What is it,

mate? What's wrong? Again, you're sort of making a thing of it. Okay, yeah. But we'll put that pin on your seat. I know, I know, but just, I saw the pin,

we could just move at a sign of them. You don't have to be aggressive. Okay, cool. I'm just saying, on edge now because I don't want to be on edge. I don't need to be on edge. You shouldn't have to be on edge to just sort of be decent to me.

Okay, okay, let's go back. All right. Oh, by the way, I wanted to say how amazing Ramesh is and how handsome I think you look is today. Could I have a quick word again? You know what's wrong? I don't need you to big me up. Okay.

It's somewhere in between. Okay, someone in between. Bigging me up and being horribly abusive. Yeah, okay. Guys, I was just about saying, you know, he's really average sort of one of the middle sort of person or Romney. Can I have a quick word? You don't have to do any announcement.

Let's just return to the evening here. Okay, cool. Okay. All right. everyone having fun yeah probably not as fun it was it it was a couple minutes ago but

still fun because we still all eating and stuff and yeah obviously you don't want to say anything John could you get your cock out of the mustard please that's so you see that's good the way you've dealt with it's really anyway sorry that I mean obviously that was a bit of a mad but the point is you're supposed to own your feelings

I think that's cool though and you're supposed to not take response so say for example like sometimes sometimes you don't say something to somebody because you're worried they're going to get upset. Yeah, and then it upsets you.

Yeah, but that's not your responsibility. All you're saying is, I feel like this. And it's up to them how they take that on board. Do you know what I mean? And you have to slightly, not to be, not to not give a shit, but you have to. Like treat yourself as a friend. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

That's kind of how it is. So anyway, I've tried to do that a bit more. Who's that involved? Who have you had to have that chat with? It's just like everyday things. Like if something and not, if something, if you don't want to do something or you feel like somebody's, you know, overstep the mark. It's happened at work a couple of times, but like something might happen. Not that anyone's been horrible to me, but like something that I wouldn't normally speak about.

I wouldn't really normally, I wouldn't want to make a fuss. I've actually said, and you don't have to say it in a combative way, you just have to go, it would help me out if we didn't do it like that from now on, do you mean? Or that's actually, I would actually, I'd actually find it easier if this was like this or it wasn't. You know what I mean? Like it's kind of doing stuff like that, which isn't starting. something that comes naturally to me. Yeah, but it's good that you're doing that. But I think, but then I think people get surprised when they say that

because my stand up and like, and also I'm a piss taker. But did you hear that? What's your tummy? Fucking hell. Jesus Christ. Do you know what that is? That's anxiety. You're carrying around your tummy.

Let me see if I can. I might do it. I don't know. You've got a baby in there when you do that. Yeah, that was, well, no, but it's like it made a really loud grung. Yeah, it was a massive grumble. I'm sure if he listened to the back. Do you know it's just because you're hungry.

Okay, fine. You probably need a fart. that was loud by the way that's one of the loudest noises my stomach's ever made that's probably the loudest I've ever heard ever in your life tummy rumble yeah

I don't think I've heard a tummy rumble that's been so translucent I don't think I've ever heard somebody use translucent more in the more incorrect context do you know what translate what do you think translucent means loud and sort of like

what does it mean translucent is like see-through okay well yeah in a way it was because it felt I could sort of see right into your belly how loud that was. Is that what translucent means? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It felt, yeah. You know what I confused me is because transparent means that as well. Yeah. By the way, we said this in about episode 10. What a stupid idiot has come up with two different words. Someone should mean, someone comes in and goes, right, okay, I've invented the word transparent. About two weeks later, someone's gone, Eric, have you got any new words?

Or translucent. Should we have a look at what the difference in translucent? You're also looking at the idiots who came out with both words. That's the thing that really annoys me when two words would mean the same. thing. Okay. Transparent materials allow light to pass through clearly, enabling you to see distinct images on the other side,

while translucent materials allow light to pass but scatter it, resulting in a blurry, obscured view. I see. So they mean two different things, don't they? It's exactly what you can play. So many things to remember. This is the narrative of what just happened.

Let me give you the chronology. Okay. Annoyed that there are two words that mean the same thing. Discovery that actually mean a different thing. Annoyance, still. Yeah. You've got to do what you said. Would you rather I just not that in silence?

No, but it's like, no, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that is the, like that's Trumpism. What you've just displayed is Trumpism, which is you've decided something to be the case. Yeah. Somebody shows you that it's not the case, and he's still angry about it being. Because I still think you've got three things there are almost the same. Well, opaque is the opposite.

Yeah. So we've just, in front of us now, we've got transparent, translucent, and opaque. Tom said that's three things that mean the same. It's because there's three pictures of different windows. It's clearly showing different stuff. One of them is a window that is transparent. The next one the best way to describe it is like a frosted window.

Yep. Right? So translucent where you can still see through. And then the third one is opaque. Tom has gone what's the point in three words or something for the same thing. Because I was looking at the window. Opaic and transparent are opposites, bro.

Hey, y'all's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfey. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.ca.

Wayfair, every style, every home. Can I just say, by the way, I think a low-life action, right? It's when someone has a transparent bathroom window. A low-life action? I think if you turn around at someone's house and they've got a transparent bathroom window, that's a low. It's insane. I went to someone's house.

a day. Literally, I was like... You're doing at downstairs bathroom? Downstairs or upstairs? Like, you go to an upstairs bathroom and they've got a transparent window and everyone can just see in. If you're upstairs, who's seeing in there?

Other people from other houses. But it's very... I mean, like, I know we see it in apartments, I get it, but how many of your windows are matching up with your neighbour's windows? Everyone nearly across the side. Quite a few of it. If he looked out of certain window,

he'd be able to... Mine, by the way, are all opaque. But haven't you got like, you've got a whole fence the whole way around? Like nobody can see anything come there? You're so cheeky. By the way, can I say you've given away because the fact you haven't got anyone near you. You're living on a state. I've got,

I've got neighbours either side of me. You haven't got no. I have. Four miles either side. What? Sometimes I see them when I've gone a really long walk. My point being, when you go in someone's house and they have got like transparent glass, downstairs is the worst.

I've been in a downstairs at someone's barbecue. Yeah. And they didn't even have a blind. mind. That's bad. I would say that's bad. It's awful. It's really bad. I wouldn't say it's low life. I would. I would. I would say that, yeah. That should be your first port of call is getting a blind or some curtains. Because if someone was part, the dignifying thing of someone walking past and seeing you stand in air and away. I think you needs a blind. It does need a blind. It does need a blind. You're a sit down way at people's houses as well, aren't you? Have I sold you that before?

Yeah. I don't want to piss on something. I don't know. I don't want to piss on. Somebody sit. Yeah, but then people come around and go, oh, wrong if she's having a crap. Well, they don't, because I don't know about you,

but I'm slightly quicker at taking a piss than I'm a crap. No, but if I walk past a window, and you're sitting on the toilet, I'd assume you're having a shit, yeah, yeah, yeah, probably. Where would you sit? Because I know you're an awkward

going to the toilet guy. How would you be if you're sitting there are you having a wee? Someone walks past, knocks a window and go, you're a mate, have a drink. How would you be? What are you fucking talking about?

What are you're sitting on a toilet? So is it a barbecue? Yeah, you're going to. someone's barbecue house party type thing right it's the England England are playing right it's the England game right you're like I'm just gonna pop for a week How well do I know these people?

I don't know it's Someone from say someone from the Off the Curd office Okay so I don't like them You know it's Rick from off the curb He's having a big big shindig Right you arrive Rick's like hey Rom how you do it If you need the bathroom it's in there Just around flora don't use the upstairs ones mate

chose some respect. Lisa, kids come through, ah, you look lovely Lisa, you're all right. So, right, that's all done. Yeah, completely needless for this example. I don't think there's anybody going

and this needs more context. So the football's on, right? Rick's like, oh, there's people arriving all day, mate, don't worry, come and go as you please. Yeah, if you get bored, well, go home, go. What's wrong with you?

I don't know what it's fun. It's so funny. So everyone's in the garden. Barbecue's going. He's got a big screen in his garden. I've never been to Rick's house, but this is what? Yeah. Right.

Loads of different people are there that you know. You need to go to the toilet. Yeah. Right. Do you ask permission or just sneak off? If he's showing me where the toilet is, I'll probably just sneak off. Okay. So you go to the toilet.

Yeah. Or if in the middle of a chat, you're just going to fit for a... Yeah. I might enjoy it. Have a good one, mate. Who are you now? Rick That's Rick

Tim again Have a good one Hey enjoy it Thanks man Don't do anything I wouldn't So yeah You go to toilet Someone walks down the side of the house

Where the toilet is You're waiting And they're knocking on the way and they go Oh Rob I didn't know you were here Do you Can you still go to a toilet Are you alerted that you have to stop Well I'm sat there now

So I've been caught haven't I Yeah so I'd probably just go yeah I would have another drink but you wouldn't would you be embarrassed? I'd be embarrassed yeah then I'd come out

and I'd go I would acknowledge it I guess it's a bit awkward yeah you've seen me on the night by the way I was having to sit down wee

I thought yeah I told everyone you have for a shit yeah and by the way Rick Tom thinks you're a fucking low life I was a by the way I'm gutted and I've not even been invited

yeah well there's a certain tier of curve yeah yeah yeah You're there, McIntyre, Domit. All the big names. Don't ever greet me with those names again. I'm joking.

Oh, why is it so funny the thought of Rick? Just dancing. Nobody knows Rick. So I don't know how funny anyone else to find this. Yeah. Rick's quite cool, by the way. Yeah. He's very cool.

Yeah, very cool guy. By the way, I will say this with Rick. Rick, but I think one of the first things Rick would do if he bought a house is but a blind or curtains on the dance. That is what? That it definitely is like, he's got very strict morals about that stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I was using him as an example. Yeah, but that's not fair. It bears no. That's one of probably the most offensive things have ever said in this podcast. I hope that Rick doesn't, or just used him as...

Well, there's stuff that we didn't put in the edit. Isn't that? Yeah. Anyhow. Yeah. What about when you kept on demanding to know why I thought I had a right to sport England? That was fairly offensive, isn't it?

It was. Here's a question for you. Got me. has Catherine seen you poo? No. Has Catherine seen you wee? Yeah. Have you seen Catherine poo?

No. Have you seen Catherine Wee? Yeah. Yeah, but like I've walked past the talk when she's wearing. You've heard each other far. I see him. Yeah. If you go to a hotel, there's a reason for all these questions.

Yeah. Not just for my own personal memory bank. But if you go to a hotel, occasionally, the bathroom kind of unit in a hotel, room provides no privacy because they're seeing the two people. Can I say that's a fucking, you know, if you're talking about the, you know, if you've been to the hotels where they've got a glass window? Yeah.

Looking into the bathroom. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. They're insane. Yeah, that's what I mean. Fucking idiots that thought that was a good idea. I know, I know. But as an architect, pervert. Architects.

Well, I don't know that architect is a pervert. I don't think it makes you perverted to draw the blueprint for it. Yeah, but if you're going, oh, by the, oh, so. Pervert enabler, I'd accept. Pervert facilitator. Are you going to be staying together, aren't you? Yeah, you're staying together. No one needs to look in and see someone having a crap.

I agree. That's what I'm saying. That's the whole point I'm raising. By the way, I think, yeah, if it is a very limited, if you're in very close proximity, which I've been in that situation, I think one of you has, yeah, I'll often go, right, I'm just going to go for a stroll and I use the toilet downstairs in the lobby. That's what I do. You have to. In that situation, you have to. Yeah, and then I think you then both sort of, there's almost a code.

This is the moment we're both going to take a dump. Occasionally they've got the ones where, if you stay at quite a fancy place, or I don't know how fancy this is, but where there's a switch to frost the glass. Yeah, but sometimes you've got to find that switch. But what I don't want to see is, what I don't want Lisa to see is a silhouette of me shitting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, have you seen Lisa, drop a juice.

No, drop a juice, did you say? Yeah. That's my fucking wife you're talking about. No, no, you are. me about mine. Yeah, I sit in quite a gracious, she doesn't drop a deuce. Have you ever seen Catherine curl out a steamy fat one?

Has she ever caught you, though? Caught me? No, like you've got the door open. No, no, no, because I lock the door. Even when you're home on your own? If I'm taking a poop, the door locked. Okay. It has to be.

Are you still phobic about doing it outside the house? I've started to try and get to grips with that a little bit and I'm better at it than I was. I've gone worse at it since I've known you. Really? I've gone more, yeah. Well, we're probably approaching the same level but it has to be, I have to really be under the kosh.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, for example, for me to take a shit here. No one else can be around. Probably Ben, John. John's, John feels like he can keep a secret. Well, I don't want to say this on the podcast. Occasionally's asked if I want to and if you could watch if that was the case.

Or just listen in. Yeah, but he asked it in a polite way. I find train toilets are ones that really throw me. Yeah. And services. Yeah. If you've ever had to go to the toilet out and the services is a low. It's awful, I thought.

I was on the train. Oh, on the train and you had a poo? Pardon? You had a poo on the train? No. Oh, okay. I was on the train not that long ago. And the guy that was,

somebody was using the toilet, but I forgot to press the lock thing on the door. Yeah. And so I pressed the button. and the door just revealed a complete stranger fucking in the middle of his business. Oh my God. He probably was like, oh, fuck, no, it's Ramesh. Yeah.

Anyway, I took a selfie and then shut the door from. Yeah, do you shut the door from outside, or did you have to do a thing where you put your door? No, he looked absolutely horrified. Of course, but then there's not a, the button to shut the door is in the inside, weirdly. I don't, I think he shut it. I'm pretty sure he shut it. That's, that's, because you've also got a whole carriage. What you don't want to just go, let me shut it for you,

and then suddenly you're in there with him. No, you've got to do that. And we get that for you, mate. And a whole carriage can see him. That's a real, there's no coming back from that. No. It's, well, people do that awful thing that people go. Yeah, I would finish, wash my hands,

I open the toilet door, jump straight out the window. I think that's, yeah. If that was your intent, you wash your hands and wipe your bum. What's the point? Because if you die in the incident, I don't want the police to find me with a shitty ass. Yeah, but you're gone anyway.

I don't want them to go, yeah, we found a body, 48, male, has not wiped his ass. And then Lisa's getting caught. Lisa's getting caught. They pull the blanket, it fucking stinks. Yeah, he does smell. We think he might have taken a shit and not wiped his ass before he went. Like a weird dirty protest. That's a real, that's a bad one.

Yeah. That's a bad one. I've done it before. Like, yeah, sort of walked in and, you know, like, so many men's tour, especially around football tournaments. Lox just get kicked in, don't they? You open the door and someone just sat there. Yeah.

I was feeling that's a bad one. What do you think it would take for you to take a shit at West Ham? I'd sooner just... I would actually, I'm not just saying this, I would rather, and this sounds like an exaggeration, I would rather shit my pants than take a dump at Arsenal. The theatre's the one that really... When I went to watch your show,

I was actually dying for shit when I went to watch your theatre thing and I was like I can't go By the way all toilets and theatres are terrible Correct I think they're so bad They're just And there's not enough of them

I think there's a reason for that Well first of all A lot of the old theatres Everyone was smaller back in the old days Yeah exactly So that's part of the issue there Secondly I think if I was designing a place like that

Or if I was I'd want the toilets To be unpleasant To discourage people So if somebody's 50-50 or they want to go or not You want them to go into the toilet and go, I'm not taking a shit out. That's the idea, really. Yeah, but the fact is, as bad as that, there's also so little of them. Like, when you go in there, there's like three your idols on one cubicle.

And there's like, how many people sat in the theatre that you were playing? 650, something. 650 people. So the queue for the men's toilets is insane. Yeah, no, I get it. And you're fine because you've got your dressing room, your luxury toilet and all that. Shared toilet. You had a shared toilet?

Yeah. What were the other guys? No. I was sharing it with strangers in the street. No? Yeah, the other people in the cast. How many toys did you? There's one on each floor.

Wow, fuck. I'd love to have come backstage with you and just had little nose about. What, did you have any pictures and stuff in your dressing room? No. I like that. Classy. I didn't have a picture. I had snacks and stuff.

I did a film once with a guy who, his trailer, he just, he put up all the things that he thought his character would have. He transformed his trailer. It was insane. it was quite cool but it was fucking mad like posters and sort of weird porn and stuff because they help him get into character

yeah that's what he thought of his character would be like what do you think about that's a weird thing that Paddington did yeah what do you what do you think about people that do that how much do you think that helps I don't know how much it helps I think there's a little bit of it that is because Brian Cox famously thinks it's bollocks

I'm sort of with him on it yeah I think look I think there's a there's a fine line between it but I'm like how much of this like having your trailer decked out exactly how your character would be is like going to help the fact

that your performance and by the way it had the similar size part in this film than I did we weren't big big characters in this movie we're like both sort of peripheral characters so he and like

but even like there was a tennis table competition we had table tennis and he he wouldn't play because he didn't think his character played so things like that he was just very very I've never met anyone like who played like he yeah he was so into his character

and what his character was and and the porn was quite full on okay so I thought you were joking so he had porn yeah porn on the wall like yeah no no no serious like and then yeah I was like and if I'm gonna be quite I was like there's nothing in your character from what I've read that was suggest that he'd be into this kind of This just feels kind of like And there was quite a famous actress who was on set

Who would rip into him But she was like what the fuck is he what's he doing I don't understand why he's got all these fucking weird pictures up And yeah it was a bizarre bizarre thing Yeah Will you find it weird if you work with him again I've worked with him twice And does his character always happen to be into niche porn

When he's working on the backstory The second film, I don't think I saw his trade. It wouldn't have shot me if he'd been... But again, in the second film, which is actually... Now, I've never really thought of it. The second film, he was really into character as well, and that was even more bizarre because it was a far less...

It didn't feel the place for it necessarily. Right, right, right, right. Yeah. He was a, yeah, quite an intense chap. So are you two a bit of a double-luck now, then would you say? I don't know. I'll tell you something for now, right? The thirstiness, I want to be everyone's friend.

I like to get on with people. I'm also very, fucking, I have a certain acumen for when I'm like, oh, this person fucking hates me. And the very idea of being in my orbit makes you want to be physically sick. I go as far as to say, we couldn't be more opposite. To the point where if I walked on the dining bus, I could see him going, no. Yeah, he was just not a fan.

On both projects, he was, and he didn't really hide it. Yeah. But, yeah, I sort of, and in both times, I, I, weirdly, I really, the first time I thought, oh, he's a character actor and he's really in it, which part of the moment, maybe his character doesn't like my character. And the second time around, I went, oh no, he just thinks I'm a .

This is, yeah, yeah, it's just very much a Tom thing. Oh, I'm sorry to, I can't imagine anyone disliking you. happen? By the way, yeah, I'm not fucking, I'm like, you're open enough to go, yeah, that's just how it is. I just don't understand how anyone could. I'm not, genuinely, I just don't understand how anyone could not like it. Oh, no, no. I find you annoying at times, yeah?

Yeah, but there's an ilk of... Wish you shut the fuck up on occasion, sure. There's an ilk of person that I'm not catnip to. Is it catnip the thing that hate that you? Catnip's the opposite. Yeah, so what's... You're catnip to me. Yeah.

There's an ilk of person who, yeah, who are disgusted by me and my... Yeah. And he, yeah. You know, we're like, you've ever been in a situation when you're, as an adult where you're like, it's not like being bullied, but you're like,

oh my God, like, these people just really, and I got stuck with them at the premiere and they were like, you three are together for a photo. And they were both, oh,

like that. And I've never just felt so on. And me being me, I'm just then trying to have a conversation. And then you're trying to counteract. Yeah, and just think, oh, maybe if I do this,

they'll like me. Maybe if I do this, they'll like me. is one of the say... I wish I had the thing that you're talking about to bring it back as a callback. I wish I'd gone, like, I'll get it. You know what I mean?

But you don't even have to say... Like that, I mean, that's another thing that we could all be better at, I think, a little bit. Most of us is... is accepting if somebody doesn't like you. I'm fine with it. But my thing is, my point is, it's like, I actually don't like really either of you to,

but the difference is I'm trying to be nice and cordial still, rather than actually, what my intention should be and what I want to do in this situation is do what you're doing. Yeah. I don't really, you've both been unclear and pretty clear and pretty, you know, shown your feelings. You've not hidden away from the fact that you're not, you know.

So, and I, but then I, through the whole of it, have just been like, oh, you know, well, you know what? I'll just try and be nice because, and actually by the end of it, I thought, I should just be, I should just fucking kind of, without saying, I think you're a pair of pricks. Yeah, yeah. Be just fucking the same. But I found myself still trying to be fennelie.

Yeah, yeah. And cracking jokes. Yeah. I'm sorry to say that, bro. That was fucking life, isn't it? Yeah, I'm not. Fuck that guy. Have you had that situation?

Where somebody doesn't like me? No. What's the closest you've had to something like that? No, I've heard it loads of times. Traitors, anything like that? What are you? doing? I'm just always trying to sniff

about traitors. I just want to get a little juicy bits. I feel like we've got... By the way, can I say other people are really fucking monetising and getting on the top of the

traitors thing already? What do you mean? What other fucking people have been in your series of traitors? They're really, like, you know, not,

they're carefully not dropping any information. Yeah. I keep saying to people who've got, and Romish has probably told yourself about traitors. I'm like,

let me tell you something about Romish, and Atham. Hilarious guy, loyal friend. You're going to do a bank job or are you going to do a secret fucking operation.

Can I remember my Shrangan Aethan? He signs an NDA. I've never known anyone like it. He takes it for, would you say? Yeah, 100%. The ink is like sacred to him. No, it's not, it's not. The NDA's done. It's like, you have my word, I won't say a thing.

And I respect that about you. No, but that's not just the NDA. I don't think, you don't want to know. I don't want to know. Even when people think they want to know, they don't want to know. I love watching that show. Exactly. But that's what I'm saying. And can I say, when your best friends

in it, absolutely delicious. Mark me down for a place for two. Yeah, and also, not only Ross Kemp, I was there too. Do you know, do you know, like, so on the first, I think I can say this, on, like early on in filming, we got Papps doing one of the missions, right? And then they, I think they, so when we were filming, they got like, I don't think I'm, anyway, I can say this. They got a bit, understandably, production were a bit like, fuck, do you know what I mean?

Like, we don't want this all getting linked out. What I don't understand is, right, I don't understand the logic in doing it, right? What, pap in it? Well, what I mean is, pap it and then release, if you want to release the photos, release them later on, right?

But the thing about traitors is, it's not the work, it's like the enjoyment is watching the show, right? And the enjoyment is part of the surprise and all of that. But you're dealing with gossip. Yeah, why are you ruining that? Because in the modern society, everyone wants that power.

and power is having a bit of gossip every time you walk into a room or every time you go into new surroundings having a little bit of a tail or something to say so whoever had those pictures is power right so as soon as they're walking in they've got a something to give to pick it and to be fair those pictures did nothing

because it's the first day everyone's in the picture I mean like you say I probably I mean I'm not even in the fucking show and I can tell you now so many people have stopped me in the street or chat to me on trains or whatever and gone has one got on a traitors or to Beckett's anything.

People are obsessed with it. I don't know anything. But also, I don't want to know. It's one of the best shows in the world. And if you took out the excitement of series one, Alan Carl winning, and you knew Alan Carl was going to win, you knew that Joe Marlow and Nick Muhammad were going to have all that test.

It's dead and gone. And without the surprise and the fucking twists of that show, it's not really a very good show. That's what makes it an exceptional show. Yeah. So if you want to ruin it, my point was, like, I'm just, I just want, I want a little bit of the tea. I just want a little taste. Oh, was there anyone in there who sort of like, gave the old Ranganath and the sort of bear back?

I can't even guess at what you mean by that. There's anyone who made, give you the old hedgehog's prick. No, but what I would say is, you've got 21 people in that, in the castle. So I think you get on with certain people but more than others. It's not that you don't like, but what you're saying is right,

I am the wrong, I'm not just saying this based on traitors, I'm the wrong flavour for a certain type of people. Do you know what I mean? And like, for me, I sort of think to myself, I love you. I love you. Yeah.

And the idea that somebody wouldn't like you, it feels really weird to me. But the truth is, is there's so many different, You know, there's certain types of personality that just rub people up the wrong way, do I mean? And so sometimes you have to accept that however you are is not to someone's... But the thing is, is like, we grow up wanting such validation that somebody not liking you, your instinct is, I want to make you like me, but it shouldn't be.

It's just we ain't supposed to be friends. Like, you know, you don't like me, and that's fine. What you don't want to do then is that's why I said when you went, what do I do I have to do to make you like me? it's so far from, and I know you were saying it's a joke, it's so far from how you should be thinking. Do you know what I mean? Because as soon as you start,

and I'm not talking about basic politeness and consideration, I'm talking about your personality. If your personality is not right for somebody, that's on them. Do you know what I mean? And I think like we're all so guilty of going, I don't get it. I don't understand.

I've been really nice to this person. They just don't, they just don't vibe with you, and that's fine. And it used to, like, age is a good teacher of this, and also happening before. And you can beat the name up, but, and I've talked to you about this. I don't know if I talk to it. When I met, I've met, I've met twice, right?

On both situations, I've really, really tried to get, because it's s' it's, right? And both situations, I've gone, oh, you can't stand me. You know, about what I'm about? Like, you, yeah, and that's fine. I don't, bear it, because why would he be? Yeah.

If there's two polar opposites. of people, it's probably me and him, right? For me, I grew up watching him, I'm like, he's a legend, right? I'm like, he's a legend, right? I'm like, what an incredible. But he's just not having me. And there was a time in my life that I'd have thought, oh, fucking know, why? And it would have kept me up at night.

No, I'm like, of course, why would he? Yeah, and also, fair enough to him. When I'm his age, and someone comes in, you go, oh, fucking hell, what helmet is key is? Why are you making fun? He's, you know, what are you going to make the time for it? Do I mean? And so I get it

And I don't sit here feeling sorry for And I can be quite a big Not a big character I get out I know I know my own You know What my What would be an irritant to some people

And what be annoying to some people And likewise When people say to me about you They're like If people If you go oh yeah I thought he was quite serious I didn't really

I said we're one of the least serious people I know But also it's like He might have just been having Like He might have been having an off day Or quite a lot of the time he's taking, he's a really good listener and he's actually taking him what you're saying

and you might be just misappropriating his body anguish but he's like, I've known a guy for like fucking for his, what, 15 years sometimes I'm talking to him and go I'm thinking fucking and I know he loves me but it's like he's just taking it in

that's why I think you've done very well in traitors by the way. You've got no idea, I've got no idea and this is what I love about it I'd be speculating with anyone, but I think if you knew the rules of poker and how to play poker, I wish I don't know if you do.

You'd be fucking a nightmare at poker table. This is a difference of me and you at poker, right? You get a good hand. You get a bad hand. I get a good hand. I get a bad hand. That's a difference. Yeah.

Right, Tomo, it's about that time, I, Jay. Thank you. Well, it's been a joy. Thank you for riding along. It's been real fun. I've enjoyed this one. Me too, yeah. It's been like a delving. It's like being a sort of like...

Deep dive. Yeah, a deep dive into spirit. Yeah, I could actually... This one could have gone for another hour. Yeah, but let's not. Let's wrap it up. Yeah. I actually got real impact.

I just want to stroke your face for a little bit. You know like when you see a nice cat or a nice dog? You don't want to give that dog a little cat a stroke. Yeah. That's how I feel about you right now. Okay. Yeah. Why don't we wrap this up and we can see a little range in that.

You can strike my face now if you want. Come, bring it. That's nice. Soft beard. What are you using a new beard at all? It is actually. What is it? Tom Ford Tobacco Vanil.

Oh wow. I love a Tom Ford beard. Well, anyhow, opportunity knocks every now and again. But does it knock or does it silently come into the room? Like a ghost or a shadow. See, seldom you realize the times that opportunity is in a room. Sometimes it can just be in the form of another person. eyeballing over or maybe in a form of some food you've never tried, go back to last week's.

Opportunity can sometimes come at you in very different ways. What you're supposed to do? Have a big net so you can catch your opportunity where it arises. Like a fisherman on the banks of a Wiley River or a sea fisherman on the banks of a Wiley Sea. Or a horse rider. looking for a horse and jumping on the back of it. See, those are physical things, but opportunity seldom is.

It's more spiritual. So what do you do? Do you let opportunity pass? Well, sometimes you have to, friend. Sometimes you've got to let it go because the opportunity wasn't for you. There's someone else in the room who had a quicker net. Alas, a saddle ready to put on the back of that broad horse.

Sometimes it's up to you, though, when you see an opportunity to go, Hey Pete Hey Sue Notice you've got a bit of opportunity there Mind if I Jump in and share it See some opportunities

Aren't just for one person There for everyone And that's the thing about life We learn a lot Jumping in alone But we learn a heck of a lot more Jumping in together Fucking hell

You managed to pull something quite profound Out of a real sack of shit there Yep That last bit I'm actually really I think that might be my best ending for a while. I think it is. I've got no idea how much sea fishing happens on the banks.

We should probably look that up at some point. Thank you so much for listening and watching The Wolf and Our Podcast. Please could you like and subscribe for your benefit, not ours. It does help us out. It's a mutually beneficial situation. If not, Johnny's coming for you. The coyote roars. Okay, bye.

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