Woman Evolve with Sarah Jakes Roberts - Content and Contend

Episode Date: October 23, 2025

Pastor Manouchka Charles joins SJR for a conversation that feels like truth wrapped in grace. From a Haitian church in Brooklyn to finding purpose in Miami, she shares how faith carried her through a near-death accident, heartbreak, and healing. The two get real about unity in the Church, leading with empathy, and navigating singleness without losing hope. Share this one with a sister who's healing, growing, or holding on by faith. We're all evolving together.

There is nothing in Scripture necessarily that suggests the closer I get to God, the easier life will become. But what Scripture does suggest is that the closer we get to God, the better we become at dealing with life. There's some seasons I'm like, oh gosh, it would be really nice to be in a relationship right now. Like, when is this going to happen? And there's some moments where I feel that tension. But then I'm reminded that I'm surrounded still. And I lack nothing with God. What's up family? It's your girl, SJR, and you are listening to the Woman Evolve podcast. Are we late? Yes. But are we here? Yes. Sorry for the delay. I took a little vacation. I won't say just because anything is better than no thing. But I took two full days of rest and isolation. And it was most necessary.

I'd be feeling very overstimulated by all of the things. As I am sure you are as well. Like if you're not, drop the clues, drop the hints, drop the insights. Drop them somewhere where I can find them, okay? Because sometimes it just feels like there's too much going on all of the time. And, you know, I think I needed a minute to center to remind myself who I am. in the midst of it all. And I think the greatest takeaway that I had from my time away is that I really need to start writing again. So right now I have my prayer and my devotion time and I write in my journal

just about, you know, what the Lord revealed to me about his character, about myself and the process of reading scripture. And I pray into that. But then also I just need to clear my head sometimes and to give language to emotions that I'm just having to experience but not process because things are happening back to back to back. And so I had an opportunity to start a substack, which, you know, if you guys want to, you know, hop on, you can hop on. I started, if you don't know this about me, like the whole reason why I think people know that I exist is because I write, even though I don't write as much, that was the initial thing that allowed me to experience community as I started writing about where I was in my faith journey, what I was learning about

God, what I was, I won't even say my faith journey, my heartbreak journey, my healing journey, my health journey. I just started sharing what I was learning in this little space where I was in my first marriage. I wasn't even using like my dad's last name. I was using my married last name at time and I was just writing and created community from there. And I was like, hey guys, you know, also there's this and oh i'm also a teen mom and you know here's my my dad also and then so from there it kind of became a little bit more of a thing and okay anyways so i need to go back to the basics the word word word sometimes we're so busy trying to figure out how we move to the next that we mess out on the opportunity to realize that the present is only a result of the basics that we did then

hold on, it's cooking. It may be a crock pot, but it's going to get there. What I said was sometimes we are so busy trying to figure out what we do next from where we are now, that we miss out on the reality that the place that we're currently standing only exists because of the basics that created that moment. There is momentum in the basics. There is excitement in the basics. Sometimes we're so busy doing new thing after new thing after new thing and experiencing the anxiety of the new thing that we need to go back to the thing that, you know, kind of maybe it was safe. Maybe it built our confidence, though. Maybe we know it so well that there's a momentum connected to that and from that place and momentum we're able to do new things.

I'm not sure that we're meant to go from new thing to new thing without taking a moment to refuel, recalibrate so that we can really give that new thing the energy it requires. And for me, writing has always been in the space where I settle into myself, where I refuel, where my thoughts make sense and I'm able to, like, connect the dots. And so I've just been experiencing the anxiety of new after new after new. And guess what? I'm going back to old. Old worked.

Okay. And maybe instead of trying to figure out what to do next, that's new, you do the old thing. So that's what I've been up to. But as always, I don't want to just mind my business. I want to mind yours as well. And so with that being said, let's get into this week's mind your business question. Hey, Sarah. My name is Desiree.

I just want to start off by saying, you know, thank you. And, you know, I pray God, continues to bless you because I know for sure I'm not the only one who has just came across your voice, you know, and it sparked something in me to begin and want to become closer to God just by listening to you. It was a moment just last year where I did come across your voice. And when I heard your voice, I was in a, like, in a place where I just found out I was pregnant after only being with a guy for like three months. And it was very tough for me. It didn't end up working out for us.

And I was like experiencing like having like suicidal thoughts and just not feeling well about the whole situation. But I felt broken, you know, but I listened to. your voice and for a moment I was going to move forward with not having the baby, but that same night or around the same time I was having those thoughts. I had a dream of someone saving me. It was just like a hand that reached out to me as I was in water. And from there, I just, you know, I mean, my baby, she's eight months now, so I overcame

that and I've been on this journey. I'm just trying to get closer to God ever since then. I'm just at a point where it's like things just keep happening. You know, I feel like that I've chosen to become close to the God. I feel like I'm being attacked even more. Things just keep happening around me even more. And I'm wondering, like, how do I, you know, like, keep, keep moving forward, keep going.

Just keep going through this journey and just trying to find him and become closer to him and walk with him when it's like so much stuff around me that is kind of, you know, it'll draw you away from him, you know, being around people and people who are not on that same journey as I am. I guess my question is, you know, how do I keep pushing forward, you know, and just trusting, trusting God even throughout the chaos that's happening. Yeah. This is a phenomenal question, but first of all, I want to take the time and thank you so much for sharing with me your story and your history. I am blown away by, your transparency and vulnerability and sharing with me about your story. I'm so grateful that God will

use my voice in any capacity to serve what he's doing in your life. And even more grateful that you're at a place now where you are experiencing the value and worth, not just in living, but in what life has to offer. And so I just pray that God continues to open your heart and your mind and your eyes to all of the things that are available to you in life. One of the things that you mentioned in your question that I think is so important is that we believe, whether we admit it or not, but we believe subconsciously that the closer I get to God, the easier life will become. And there is nothing in Scripture necessarily that suggests the closer I get to God,

the easier life will become. But what Scripture does suggest is that the scripture does suggest is that the question, the the closer we get to God, the better we become at dealing with life. And that's an important distinction to make because when we get closer to God and our life doesn't get better, we start to think that there's something wrong with us, there's something wrong with God, there's something wrong with this walk. But the Bible says that the rain falls on the just and the unjust alike. Life is going to happen to all of us. Our choice in experiencing life then becomes, who do I want to be when I go through it? What resources do I want to have when I

go through it. What do I want to utilize as my raft in the midst of life happening to me? And the answer for that to me is Jesus. I believe that my pursuit of becoming like Jesus, even in the hardest moments of life, if I can find anything in scripture where it seems like Jesus experienced rejection, Jesus was afraid, Jesus was nervous, Jesus was embarrassed. I find those moments and I examine how he made it through those moments when he felt lonely. How did he show up after that? He never turned back and because he never turned back, I feel like I have an opportunity to continue standing up too and not only standing up, but implementing the spiritual practices that allow me to stay close to God in the midst of it all. So the question then becomes, how do I

survive the moments where life just keeps happening to me and I don't want to go back to who I used to be. I think we acknowledge that life is hard. Part of the reason why we end up having so many issues where we are experiencing depression, nerves, and or anxiety is that we are refusing to acknowledge that this is hard. This is overwhelming. I'm glad that you reached out to me because I believe that that's the beginning of it. I think for me, the second thing has been community, whether it's friendships that allow me safe spaces to unpack and admit that it's hard, or just experiencing other people's stories that you would be surprised what following other people online who are maybe experiencing motherhood or pursuing their MBAs or building entrepreneurship

and the transparency they provide, it helps us to normalize our struggle. People who are on a faith journey who are experiencing isolation. I mean literally typing it into Google, typing it into YouTube and hearing other people's testimonies helps us feel less alone. the enemy likes to isolate us, likes to make us feel alone so that we believe there's something wrong with us, but there's nothing wrong with you. And this is a season of your life that can be complicated and frustrating, but I have learned in those moments that they're also temporary, no matter how long they feel, even in a parenting stage where like the baby's not sleeping

or your potty training, you're having to do everything for them. Them experiencing independence means, okay, that's one thing that's lifted off my plate. Now I'm able to focus on the other thing. The next thing that I would say to you is I highly encourage you to tap into moments of rest. I was feeling so nervous. I'm not nervous. Anxious. Rejected. I started wondering if I had high functioning depression. You know, because are we even on social media if we aren't diagnosing ourselves? And I'm like, maybe I have high functioning depression. And I think at the end of the day my life has just been so overwhelming that I have felt so out of control of the day-to-day, the unpredictable, that's what it was, the unpredictable nature of my life started producing this

low grief that I hadn't yet reconciled. And I like structure. I like to know what to expect. I like to know how to plan and my life is just at a stage right now where I can count on nothing. I'm taking each day as it comes. And there is, an anxiety that comes with that and a grieving of the way life was that I had been experiencing. And I'm trying to remember why I am even unpacking this for you. The point is that seasons are temporary and allowing myself to be present in the moment instead of just holding my breath and waiting to survive made all the difference from me. And so I also want to challenge you.

encourage you, depending on which words you prefer, to take a minute and don't allow the worry, the frustration, the anxiety of what's next, what's out of your control, what's in the past, to rob you from being present in the moment. And so I did this technique, which you may be familiar with. If not, I'm going to break it down for you. Hold on. Okay, so it's like a 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 practice and it's for helping you to ground yourself in moments of anxiety. And it's going to sound so woo-woo, so-woo, so-woo-so-woo-so-woo-woo, but hear me out, okay? The first thing you do is you identify five things you can see. When I did this, I was away for my little staycation. And so I was just looking around the room and like focusing in on what was in the room.

And then after you have identified the five things you can see, you do the four things you can touch, right? And so I'm like touching my body. I touch the pillow, touch my laptop, just feeling those things in front of me. Three things you can hear if there was nothing but silence there. So I had to really like really zone into like I could hear a birch, herping, I could hear da-da-da-da. And then two things you can smell and, you know, one thing you can taste, one thing you can taste. And so that exercise, it's called a grounding exercise, was really helpful for me and, like, stealing my heart from anxiety, from nerves, but also just inviting my body to be present in the moment. And I just want to offer you that opportunity to be present. And for me, that type of grounding

is critical in me beginning my prayer journey, because now that I know that I'm fully present, I begin to pray from that place. And my burdens is not that they do. And my burdens is not that they disappear, but they don't control me in such a way that I am praying from a place of just vain repetition. I'm able to kind of categorize them better and then to pray with greater intention. And so when you pray, this is the last thing I will say as it relates to just your relationship with God in this season where it feels like one thing is coming after another. When you pray, it would be one thing to pray, you know, Lord, make the storm go away. You could pray, make this all end. You could pray, give me this, give me that. Or you could say, Lord, I invite your presence into this

season of my life. I invite your wisdom. I invite your peace, your discernment into this season of my life. Help me to see my life the way that you're presently looking at it. And help me to recognize any areas in my life where I am not showing up in a way that aligns with what you want to see happen in my world. If there's any sin in me, if there's any doubt in me, if there's any fear in me, Lord, highlighted that I may be perfected by your love. Allow me to know with greater knowledge how you're showing up in this season of my life. Lord, reveal the way that you're showing up in this season of my life. I see the way trouble is showing up. up. I see the way fear is showing up. I see the way. I see all of those things. But Lord, I am asking you to

bring to the forefront of my heart the ways that you are showing up in my life that I would not take for granted, that you are present in the midst of it all. If the rain is going to fall on the just and the unjust alike, Lord, help me to see how you are my companion, how you are my umbrella in the midst of the rain. Allow me to see how you're covering me. And from that place of belief, that God is showing up in this season of your life. Attach your faith to that. Because if God is in it, if God is in it, then there's a way through it. If God is in it, there's a light at the end of the tunnel. If God is in it, I can survive this season. I may have to change. I may have to shed. I may have to stretch. I may have to grow. But if I align myself with where God is, I can make it

through this season. And then there will be moments where maybe this last thing I'll say where I'm not change and stretching and growing, there will be moments where I'm just experiencing your comfort. Because God is with me in this moment, I can break down in the presence of God, I can be frustrated in the presence of God, I can be angry in the presence of God, and then I can leave all of that in the presence of God, and the Lord can make an exchange with me. And in that place of exchange, I can receive comfort, I can receive nurturing, I can receive strength, I can receive courage. And so don't expect for your life to get better just because you're closer to God. expect for it to get more glorious because you're in the presence of God and for you to become better

because you are walking it out with God. I feel like if you are not on social media and maybe we're just not in the same like social media streets, you may not know who Manuska Charles is, but you are about to be so grateful that I invited you onto my social media street because, Ms. Ma'am, she runs the block, okay? She's a pastor, a worship leader, and a speaker serving on the pastoral staff of Voo Church in Miami, but she was born in Brooklyn, and she is passionate about faith, community, and creating spaces where people feel seen, safe, and spiritually stirs. So you already know it's very much so given soul sister. One of the things that I loved about this conversation with her is, I really wanted to backtrack. She talks about being from a Haitian family growing up in church.

in Haitian church. She said Haitian church, not me. So I'm not trying to like say, you know, there's a specific type of church. But I think there is a specific expression to what that means, which I asked her in the podcast. But also, she's now moved into this space where her faith has been, has taken her into different spaces. And she's experiencing and representing an expression of God that is so relevant for a demographic that has often felt unseen and perhaps. not safe and wondered whether or not they could be spiritually stirred and God is raising up her voice to be the answer to that. In 2018, she experienced a serious car accident that threatened her life. And one of the things that I constantly want to ask, because I want to always think about

the questions that people are sending me as like, how do you survive those moments where things happen to you that you would think, hey, I love God, I've been serving God, I've been believing and God, how could you allow these things to happen? And I really feel like her answer to that question kind of goes back to what I put in the mind your business answer when I said to ask God to reveal the way that he's showing up in the mess of trouble too, because God is our ever present help in times of trouble. That means if I am in trouble and I don't feel God, I'm missing something. And there was something to be said about her having this car accident and her also holding the of I'm experiencing this pain, I'm experiencing this hurt, but also I see God in the midst

of it all. If we can keep our eyes on Jesus, or reshift our focus back to Jesus, because sometimes we can't keep our eyes on Jesus, we get distracted, but this is someone's called to get back to Jesus. I can't wait for you to hear this conversation with Manuska. Let's get into it. I just want you to know that I have every intention of using this as my personal opportunity to mind your business. I love this. And transparency and honesty is just so we're all on the same page here because I need to know, like, I know who you are now a little bit just from watching on videos and seeing your life and your journey from afar progress. But like I need to know like where you came from. I need to know about your family life, your siblings, like schools.

So can you just take me back to the beginning? The beginning all the way to the beginning. I love it. I'm glad to be here and share. But I'm from Brooklyn, New York. My parents are Haitian. They were born in Haiti. And they came to America and raised us here.

And so grew up in church in Brooklyn. I've got two older brothers. My whole family is still actually in New York. And yeah, I went to school in New York. And then probably about a year after I graduated college, I felt called to Miami. Really? Yeah. It was definitely a surprise to me.

But it was something that I really expected to only be. be a year thing. I was going to do an internship at a church. And I was like, I'm a Brooklyn girl through and through. I'm not trying to be in Miami. And I ended up moving to Miami. And it felt like home. It did immediately feel like home. But once it started feeling like home, I was like, I think this is where I need to be. And I just never left since. I've been, I've been in Miami. It's going to be 12 years now. Oh my goodness. That I've been in Miami. Okay. So growing up in church in Brooklyn, what was that like? Were you like a soul from a little girl, I'm in. What was your faith journey like there?

I loved going to church because all of my friends were at church. And so I had this experience where I loved my school friends, but like my church friends with the people who I hung out with the most, the people that I did everything with. But growing up in church, I used toly worship. I was the choir director at some point. All these things I got thrown into, they were never my choice. But I think that for me, it was one of those things where you're like, you're in church, but you have not fully made a decision to like really follow Jesus. And I think that happened for me in a few different experiences. I think around high school,

we used to go to this like annual youth conference called Winterfest. And I went to Winterfest and I had this like encounter with God. And I was like, I'm all on fire. But you know, like you come from those moments and you're just like the youth camp high and then you just go back into regular life. I think that that was the case for me. Like we would always have that like, yeah, that was the, the best experience. I'm on the mountaintop. And then you would just come back and deal with life.

And then I think like early 20s was when I was like, I really actually want to know about my faith. I think that's why I moved to Miami because I felt like I didn't know how to communicate my faith. I had faith, but I couldn't communicate it to anybody else. And I didn't feel like I was bringing anybody else along the journey. I had heard Pastor Rich preach a message. This was before I knew him. And he was like, if you're not fishing, are you really following? and I'm like, I'm not fishing for anybody. I haven't, like my life were so separate. Like I had my work life, I had my school life, I had my church life, and those did not intersect.

And I was like, I don't know if I'm really following Jesus if I have not been able to tell anybody outside of my church circle about Jesus. And so that kind of pushed me to move to Miami. I really had no intentions of being a pastor or being a preacher or any of those things. I was just like, if I believe, I need to know how to talk about what I believe. And so it was like an up and down journey. I feel like my faith, like always in church. Never really was like out here trying to do anything crazy.

But still there were things where I'm like, I'm not fully locked in the way that it was like one foot in, one foot out. And then I was just like, you know what? I need to take this serious. I do feel like every person who has been raised in church has that moment where they're like, okay, I have to be honest. I'm not really sure that I'm about this life from my own authentic place. Like sometimes, like if you're like me, you knew you went about that life early on because it just never fit. But then there are other people who, you know, it fit.

Like they were in the choir, they were in the prayer groups, but they still didn't have that moment where it was rooted. You know, it was more transported than actually rooted. And so it sounds like you really found your roots. Do you attribute that to the ministry of Pastor Rich? I would say before that, I feel like there was a foundation that the Haitian church instilled in me. You know, I think the way that I even decided to live my life was rooted in probably the way that my mother raised me. She didn't really play at all.

We were going to every prayer meeting. If there was anything fun happening in the city, there was conveniently a prayer meeting that we had to be at. And so it was just like, oh, that's happening. You got to go to prayer. And so I feel like a lot of, there's a foundational thing that I gained, just being at our church, because we would have beautiful encounters with God. Like, I cannot doubt that, that what I grew up in really helped to shape me. And then I feel like coming to Miami was just another kind of shaping of my faith and taking the things that were actually rooted in me. And they started to flourish as I continued to understand what ministry was and to understand.

understand what my faith was. It was like a flourishing that happened in a different season in Miami. But the roots for sure started at home. Okay. So I'm a church girl experienced all different types and versions and expressions of what it means to go to church. In my mind, I am envisioning, you know, Haitian, Brooklyn Church is giving black church, you know, with a little maybe Nigerians or like gone, like, I'm thinking about all of these different, like, it could be here all day. It's probably a little warm And you're not complaining about it

I'm seeing dancing I'm feeling movement Yeah I feel like you might have been there Because that's exactly What our church felt like There was a point in time But we didn't have AC And this was crazy because people

Would pass out at church Yeah that's fine It was either the Holy Ghost or heat stroke That's kind of how I grew up Everything's fine But that's exactly what that was It was like We're at church all day

We're running around We're doing Jericho, marches. Yes. Like you are at church from 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. minimum.

And I was like, I don't know what's happening in all that time, but there's just multiple layers of things that are happening. And then you got to come back for night service.

You got quiet practice. Let me tell you, at least you got to come back. We had to sleep in between. Let me tell you how I can remember just the memory of that schedule brought back how I use. I used to hate church.

And I love the Lord and I love church now. Right, right. But I'm like, this place right here is all my. God bringing me back to Dallas to lead and pastor here has been a reconciliation of my childhood because there were really some moments where I was like, this place is going to be the death of me. And then they're going to try and bring me back to life to drag me back here. It was never ended. For real, it's all God.

Okay. But I'm curious, though, because if that is, if I'm correct about what I am perceiving as your experience of church growing up, Voo. Yeah. It's a little different than that. It's a little different. It's a little different. But we're in church all day still because we've got a lot of services. And so it's reminiscent.

They're just broken down into different times frame. So I have been going to church all day long for my whole entire life. I can't escape it because we've got a 10 a.m. or 12 p.m. And you get a little lunch break and we have a 6 p.m. service. And so. Oh, yeah, you back in it. Mm-hmm. So I really never left.

It just changed form. But you know what? I think that that is exactly where I was headed, though, because we've seen a lot of people deconstructing their faith. And that deconstruction looks different for different people. And sometimes it is straying away from maybe the more traditional forms of worship or worship that they were raised in into environments that are maybe a little bit more teaching heavy instead of preaching heavy. Maybe they're more worship heavy than word heavy.

like they have found expressions of faith that resonate more deeply and more significantly for them. I'm not saying that that has necessarily been your journey, that it resonates more deeply. But I do want to talk a little bit about experiencing different expressions of what it means to be in the presence of other believers and how you feel that has broadened your perspective on the kingdom and maybe even the way that God shows up differently for different people. Yeah, I think that's such a great question because I, I often think about that. It's like, God is so big that there are so many different expressions of him that it would be too small to just express who God is through one sound, one preaching style, one kind of church experience. And so growing up in Brooklyn, I went to a Haitian church, but I used to go to the black churches in the area, the Caribbean churches, the African churches. And so I feel like I've always been in this space where I was experiencing God in these different expressions.

And then as I got into my 20s, I started being around different, very different than maybe the black culture or the African or the Caribbean. And it was different. And I felt like I was experiencing different things in those spaces. But I've learned to just honor all of the, like, I love all the expressions. I really do. And I've learned how to honor what they all bring and what they can bring and not look at one. Like, all right, this expression is better than that expression. And so I really enjoy being able to be a part of a church that there are different expressions.

And sometimes even our services, our 10 a.m. feels different than our 6 p.m. You know, if you go to different locations, it'll feel different. And so I've just been able to learn how to lean into. God's presence, no matter what the expression is. And I think that takes a mindset shift of, all right, my one expression is the only way that I can experience. Guys, sometimes I say that I'm a charismatic contemplative, because I was like, I can be charismatic and I can yell and I can run and all the things. But then sometimes I'm just like in this contemplative, like, quiet nature of myself where I learn that there is just something in both. Sometimes I'm fully warfare and

sometimes I'm like in reverence. And so being able to take all those different expressions and just honor them for what they are, I think is what I've been able to do on my journey because I'll be in different spaces and different churches. And I'm like, oh, this is different than what I felt last week. And this is different than something else, but God's here. And I think that's the key thing. It's like, can I sense God? All right, cool.

No matter what your expression is, I'm all about it. I'm for the capital C church, whatever the expression is. Is you preaching Jesus? His presence is there. You really love them. Let's go. You know? I feel like one of the greatest threats right now to unity in the body of Christ is this insistence that it has to have one specific expression. And if it doesn't have that expression, then there's no value in it at all. And I feel like we're all working together, but maybe we're working different people, different parts of the world, different experiences. And I am concerned, I think, for the lack of honor that we have.

for everyone's role and function in the body. And so it is important that we learn to see the value in it, even if it's not necessarily our first choice or our preference, to be able to recognize that God is doing something in that space. And as long as the Lord is being preached, Paul talks about it. Some preach for this reason, some preach for that reason, as long as Jesus is being preached, that's where I land. And so I feel like, man, as this generation begins to,

identify thought leaders and trusted voices and we navigate unprecedented times in our world and in our country. What do you think is going to be required of leaders in order to be effective and focused and potent during these times? Yeah, I think communication that's not one incited and just on social media. Because I think that, you know, there's all sorts of things that are happening in our world. And sometimes people will just put their one opinion without having a conversation with someone that they might not know how they feel or they respond to it. Right.

And I think that as leaders are emerging, it's going to be a coming together of, all right, you think this way, I think this way. Why don't we come together and understand people's point of view? versus just maybe putting out one angle or thought because churches are going to be filled with all kinds of people. I've seen it where people are wanting to have conversations about certain things where they're like, I don't know if I feel hurt in this area

or I don't know if somebody understands me and people are looking to be understood. People are looking to have, I think people to at least acknowledge what they feel. And I think that we do need leaders that are like, you know what, I can pause. I can acknowledge that my my thought is not,

my opinion on this matter is not the only opinion. And if there are other opinions, I need to hear those other opinions to actually be able to process it and to be able to ask the Holy Spirit, okay, Lord, what are you doing? I think a lot of things that are happening in our world, and I'm like, we have to look beyond the just

the surface level of it. It's like, what's actually happening in the spirit? What's happening with the church? And if the Lord has given us this opportunity to be leaders, in a generation where people are going to listen to what we have to say. I think there just has to be more of an involvement of voices to be able to speak into what's happening.

And yeah, I think leaders need to come together that are different to hear each other out and not necessarily on a public platform. It might require some private conversations between leaders to help. all right, how do we lead a next generation of people? How do we lead the next generation of church? What is the climate of the church? What is the church going to look like in 10 years? And what do we deposit now that's going to affect the church in 10 years

or a generation that's coming up that's looking at the church and wondering, all right, do I want to be here? Because the church sometimes feels a little bit divided or do I want to be here because I don't think the church sees my perspective. And so I think there's a repentance, a unity. that needs to happen among leaders if they're going to lead a broad audience. If I'm going to lead just everybody who thinks like me, that's different. And I don't think that's what we're called to do.

And so if I'm going to lead a broad number of people, I need to actually hear from them and sit and listen and take that to the Holy Spirit to see how I could actually lead in a way that doesn't cause people to feel like they are not a part of something. That's so good. It did. It made perfect sense. think ultimately what we're talking about is empathy. And I think the fear in practicing empathy

is that I am abandoning my position to try and understand your perspective. But I'm only temporarily abandoning my position to understand your perspective. And I feel like that practice is so necessary because unless I am willing to embody, attempt to embody your experiences, your perspectives, and then understand the conclusions that you have drawn, then I'm never going to understand why you're making the choices that you're making or saying the things that you're saying. I've been challenged over this year really to, like, I'm seeing so much division and so many opinions that I don't agree with

that instead of just saying, listen, well, I'm right, and it's really something wrong with them, and it's very easy sometimes to just say it's something wrong with them. It's like I'm trying to figure out why they think they're right. because it's obvious that they think they're right. And so I have been able to do a lot of work and understanding why they think they're right. I don't necessarily agree,

but at least I understand why they're saying some of the things that they're saying. And I wish and I hope that there are conversations that are taking place where someone else who's on the opposing side is also doing the same for those who may think and feel differently. It doesn't feel like there's any space for that now. But if the church doesn't figure it out,

the world can't figure it out. I would agree. And I do think that it's going to take somebody saying, I want to create a space for it. And I don't even know how that looks like. Because this is something that I actually thought about a few weeks ago, because that was just grieved. I think we all were kind of grieved at the things that we were seeing. And I'm like, all right, well, who needs to step up?

Who needs to bring people together? Like, what needs to happen? And so, yeah, I think I've just been praying about, I think, the state of just believers in general to be able to figure out a way that we can be an example to a world of what unity looks like. And then you say the word unity and people are like, I don't know if we need you. There's just so many layers of conversations that it's like, I don't know. We just need to go to God and hear what he's saying.

You know what's so funny is I called myself because I feel like especially as of late, because I have been fortunate, like you have been to live in this. intersection of different thoughts and different beliefs, I have noticed that there is a racial difference in the way that people have responded to different things that have taken place in the news. And there's one sector that feels one way, and there's another sector that feels a completely different way. And so I called someone who, one of my white friends, and I told her, I'm like, I need to

mind some white people's business rights, because I'm trying to figure out why these things are being said. I'm trying to figure out what it is that we're missing. what does this mean to you all? And she couldn't help me because she didn't get it either. So I do think that the conversations need to happen, but I'm just curious if there will be enough humility and enough honesty to really help someone understand,

to not villainize the fact that they don't understand, but to help someone understand. And I feel like the onus is really on us as leaders to be intentional about at least seeking to understand because how we use our voice, how we use our platforms will be directly reflected in those conversations. And I think it will make us more compassionate. We serve a Jesus who was so compassionate that he looked at the sick. He looked at the ill. And he wanted to do something about it. He wasn't like, oh my gosh, you're dirty. There's something

wrong with you. He was literally moved with compassion. And I'm just wondering if we are going to be people who can be moved with compassion when we see the untouchable showing up in our lives. Yeah, that is truly something that we have to sit with and figure out where are those spaces, who is creating those spaces. And I think that people can also create those spaces within their friend group. You know, sometimes we think that, because for me, I'm like, who's going to be the leader that's going to step up and just hoping that we're hoping that somebody else is going to do it, right? And now that we're talking about this, I'm like, I can do this in my friend group. I can do this with the people, you know, it might not be on a large scale, but I think it can start somewhere. Some of the conversations can happen with the people that we are connected to, the people that we do know that think differently than us, that we actually sit down and try to have conversation so that we can hear both sides.

So I do think that it could start with just individuals saying, you know what? I want to talk to the people around me and be brave enough to have some conversations with people who think differently than me, who look differently than me, and to hear what they have to say so that we could have healthy conversations around these things. So good. I heard that you went through an experience in 2018, 2018 that impacted your perspective on life and ministry. Can you share that with me? Yes. February 2nd, 2018, I got into a terrible car accident. I was on my way to a wedding in Mexico. It was supposed to be a 24-hour trip. Some friends were getting married, and my friend Mariana and I,

we were the last two people to arrive and the car service that was picking everybody up and bringing them to a hotel. Picked us up and probably about 15 minutes away from the hotel that we were going to the car that I was in hit into a minibus. And at the time, I just, it was one of those things where I was like,

I don't know if this is real. or not, I think I'm like having all these thoughts in my mind, but somebody opens up the car door, they pick me up and they put me on the side of the road. And I just was in more pain that I had ever felt in my life. And there was a moment of consciousness where I was like, if there's a possibility I might die. And all I could, I didn't have enough words. All I could pray is God, I don't want to die. I was just like, I don't want to die. And I could hear my friend kind of shouting for me from the car, we both get transported to a local hospital in the area. And at the time when we got to the hospital,

because none of my injuries, you couldn't see any of my injuries. But my friend, her back was like inflamed. And so all the doctors were paying attention to her. But thank God I had some friends who were there and had made their way to the hospital because they started like really fighting with the doctors so that the doctors would see me because at first they were just like not really paying much.

attention to me. I'm in a different country, speak a different language, but they're like, she's not okay. You need to, you need to actually look at her. And so they finally did, and they had realized that I had all these internal injuries. And they told me, they was like, hey, the last thing I remember was like, your spleen is ruptured. You can live without your spleen, but we need to remove it immediately. And I just, in my mind, I'm like, I've never had a surgery in my life. And I was just like, I don't even know what's happening. They were like, we're going to call your mom. don't worry her. It's like your mind is not even really like thinking I was like, I don't worry my family. I'm thinking that, you know, this was going to be something simple. And I just remember

them cutting the clothes off of me. And then I wake up 10 days later. Wow. And when I woke up, I was, I was confused, a little agitated, just didn't know all the way it was happening and found out that when they went in to remove my spleen, that they had realized that I had more injuries that they had to medically induce me in a coma. And then, bring me to another hospital to work on me. And so that started my journey of recovery. And so after the 10 days in the coma, I woke up and made my way back to Miami finally. I get back to Miami. And my brother, he was like, Medici, you have a bump on your back. And I was like, I kind of was just like annoyed at life and everything. Every part of my body hurt. So I was just like,

I was like, okay, I was like, I don't know what this is. And I kind of brushed it off. And I had a doctor's appointment and I like in passing mentioned it to my doctor. He orders an x-ray. I don't have another x-ray for another two weeks. Get the x-ray and find out that my back was badly fractured. And they had missed it. They were doing all these things to save my life. They didn't know if they should fly me back to Miami. And so they just missed that my back was broken. And the doctors were like one wrong move and you can be paralyzed. And so they went immediately to the emergency room. And from there, started another journey where I had to have another surgery for my back and then would spend the next few months just recovering.

And there's so many stories layered in between all the things that took place. But really that was probably one of the hardest seasons of my life and most painful and dark. I've just watched how God has redeemed it in so many different ways that I could not have ever imagined. There's just like so many miracle stories within that story that I'm just, I'm grateful. I wish it didn't happen,

but I've watched how God has used it greatly. Oh, man, I'm just thinking about how many people have had experiences where they're like, I wish it didn't happen, but I also see how God redeemed it. What do you think the greatest impact on your ministry has been having this near-death experience you know, maybe someone's gone through something and they were angry with God, frustrated with God,

not understanding how I can be in the will of God and something this terrible happened to me. And yet you went through these things and you're up preaching about the goodness and the faithfulness of God. How do you reconcile that? Yeah, I watched how God used it. Even before I got out the hospital,

there was one story that my friends told me. So many people had flown out when that had happened just to be with me and just to pray and to be with my family and one of the things that happened in the hospital in order for me to they had all these different blood transfusions and the hospital kind of had a rule

where they needed blood because they were giving me so much blood so I had all my friends donating blood and my best friend she has like a rare blood type and that same day another person had got into a car accident and their baby was in the car

and that baby had that rare blood type and because my friend had donated blood earlier that day, they were able to give it to the baby and the doctor was like, if she wasn't here, that baby wouldn't have survived because we would have never gotten that blood in time. And so even before I got out, the hospital, I was already hearing testimonies of what God was doing

in and through it. But I think for me, while I was in the, while I was kind of in the mode of recovery, I really had to make it, a decision. I was like, this could either make or break me. Yeah. This could spiral me into a very dark place because I think in the hospital, I was like, God, why did this have to happen to me? Or why were my injuries so bad? Or why did, you know, I just had all these questions in it. But I was like, I'm going to make a decision that this season is not going to take me out. And so there are just

certain things that I did. There were just certain rhythms and practices in that season that I had to do in order to keep my mind fixed on Jesus. I had a gratitude journal and every single day I would write, it would be the smallest thing. But I'd like, all right, I stood up on my own today. Or I went to sleep without medication today. Or, you know, I walked down the street. It was the smallest win, but it was the biggest win to me in that season. And I look at that gratitude journal and I'm just thinking about how being able to say,

I'm going to give God praise for something. Every single day, I'm going to do it. Because I really didn't have strength to pray. I didn't have strength to worship. I just remember just laying on my couch watching videos. I would watch you a whole lot in that season. So I was just watching. I was just like, I'm just going to watch and just,

it's going to be worship or the word. I was like, I can't, I couldn't do it on my own. And so I just had to be surrounded around it. And one of those things, I think in that season, And you had said, I'm going to tell you right now, bruised heels still crush Satan's head, right? Serpent's head. What was crazy is that both of my heels were bruised.

I had, because I hadn't moved for so long, I had these bed sores. And having bed swords are just not a great thing to have because it slows down your recovery. And I remember sitting there and the doctor saying, all right, this heel is bruised and that heel is bruising. And me hearing you say that, I was just like, I was like, I've got a lot of injuries, but this one is biblical.

And it just, I don't know, it just put a fire in me where I was just like, my heel is bruised, but we're going to crush the serpent's head. And it was like, there was things like that that just kept me going in that season. And just being surrounded around community. I think that was the biggest thing where community was so important. My mom, she moved to Miami to be with me for the, for the whole time of my recovery and just surrounding myself around people

who could pray for me when I could not was the biggest thing. And so just like all the little, there's just still testimonies that I still share. I had shared something the other day and my brother was like, oh, I never knew that part of the story. And I was like, I didn't share it with anybody.

And so there's still parts of the testimony that I'm like now sharing or things that were happening internally with me that I had not publicly shared with anybody. And so, yeah, I've just watched how God has used it to encourage people to believe for healing, to believe for miracles,

to believe God to do the impossible. I've prayed for so many different people who are like, hey, I know what you've been through. My family member just got into a car accident, can you pray for them? Or somebody's in the hospital, can you pray for them? And so people just seeing evidence of a healing

has blessed me because I'm like, yeah, I'm going to pray because I know that God can do it. It's not just theory for me. I've actually experienced it. Okay, so I feel like you need to write a book or something. Maybe this, we're going to call this podcast,

because listen, there's something to be said about the Lord giving you boldness in the place of brokenness. And I'm looking at literally your body being fractured and your body having this brokenness and yet how through the process

of time, through the process of gratitude, through the process of community where there was once brokenness, you now have a boldness to pray a boldness to speak, a boldness to declare what the Lord has done in your life. And I feel like that is the promise to anyone who has ever experienced brokenness is that God can give you boldness in the place of brokenness. And I fear that too many of us want boldness in the place of confidence. And it's like his strength is made

perfect in our weakness. If you really want to experience the boldness of who God is, you're going to have to be willing to expose his grace, his strength, his will. You're going to have to look for it and discern it, because you could have been so upset with God that you didn't care about the blood transfusion. You could have been so upset with God that you didn't recognize that you weren't going through it on your own, but your eyes were open in the midst of it all. I just feel like there's so much power in that. When we go through dark seasons, the temptation is to close our eyes and to just survive it. But if you don't, if you keep your eyes closed, you may miss the way that God is moving even in the dark. I just feel like there's, you just, you need to write it out. I've always thought

about writing about my story. It's, it's, I'm currently writing something right now. Okay. But about singleness, not about my, um, my accident journey. And I've always, you know, somebody said that the other day. I was like, all right, I need to like really sit down and write out because there were so many miracles and, um, there were so many things that happened where there's sometimes where I think about it and I get emotional and, and, and I think about it and, or I look at, you know, what I looked like back then, and it evokes emotion in me. And so I think I just got to sit in the emotion of it

and really take some time to get it out. I want to hear about your singleness book. Because, girl, one of the questions we get a lot is just like, what is your advice for single women? What are you telling single women? And I tell them like I feel like the old auntie in the club because I've been married now. I wasn't my single girl era,

but she got locked down and she glad about it, be clear. But, you know, I don't feel like I understand enough about what it means to be single in this culture, in this world, what men are up against. And so I don't feel like I have the best advice for single women. So like, what are you experiencing right now? Yeah. So I preached a message called singleness is a piece of cake. And the premise of that message was not that singleness is easy, but that it's layered and everyone has their own slice. Because I think that what I realized is that there were a lot of different labels that people would put on singleness, but it just felt like it was, all right, it is just this thing. And I'm like, it's not just that. It's just so many

different layers to what it actually is. And I think that my thought on singleness right now is I'm learning how to be content, but then I'm also learning how to contend. So I'm living in the contentment of it. But then I want to contend for what I have. Everybody doesn't want to get married, but for those who do, I think there's learning how to actually contend and to vocalize. All right, God, what do I want? What scriptures are attached to the promises of marriage that I'm going to begin to speak over my life? And so I think for single women and single men in this season, for me, my heart is that I would love for there to be a generation of people who can do dating the right way and that the church would be the example of dating the right way. and it wouldn't feel like, oh, I don't want to date in church or dating in church.

You'll hear this all the time. I can't date in my church. I'm like, then you go there. That's your community. I would love for the place that people would be able to find their person is in the community that they belong to. And people meet different people in different ways. But if the church could raise up single individuals who could be the eligible people for marriage, you're like, all right, I know that this person is actually taking their single journey seriously.

and I can actually connect with them because of that. And so I think there's a contending, and I think that there is so much that single people can hold on to, even in their single season, that you can enjoy it. And you can, I think the one thing that I've decided is like, I'm going to enjoy my life and enjoy and not just wait on, you know, marriage to enjoy life. And sometimes we do make marriage the end all, be also,

our lives are just surrounded by you know I don't want to get married I want to get married and then anything that's not like that any failed relationship or failed talking stage or all the things is just like it crushes you because you're like I was hoping that this would be the one and then it didn't work out and so I think there's just so much to it

that I'm even learning but I know that my experience is not going to be the same as somebody else's experience but what I do know I can be content and I can pray specifically for what I'm believing God for in this season. So when you say contending, does that mean that, you know, if you are in a space and you are open to the possibilities of what a relationship can add to your life, not desperate for, but at least open to it, that you do need to at least let, you need to make the openness

apparent. Because sometimes we're open, but we're closed about being open. I would agree. I think people in their mind, they're like, I really want this, but there's nothing that they do that shows that they actually want a relationship. And, yeah, people aren't mind readers. You know, I think there's this tension about approaching and this or that. But I think there's ways to, especially if you already know someone or you get to be in proximity to them to be able to make things maybe easier for people to understand, oh, this person might be interested in me or there might be an opportunity there.

And so I think with contending, I look at it both. spiritually, and then I also look at it in our personal walk. It's like spiritually, I want to actually be praying specifically for what I want and praying scripture based on what I want. But then also in the natural, I want to be doing the things that could actually set me on the path. And that might be saying yes to someone who says, hey, let's go out on the coffee. Or getting to know people as a friend and seeing where it gets to.

And so I think there are some actions towards it, depending on where you find yourself in life and church in different seasons. All scenarios will be different. But I think there is a required openness to be able to step into some of those things. Now, I can tell you, most of my friends are female and those who are single are telling me

what they feel like is wrong. It's like not them. It's like something wrong with the guys. Like they're not ready to commit. They feel like they need to build their lives more or they just play so much. Like, do you feel like there is, how do, what do I want to ask here? Do you feel like there is space for, I think there is space.

I'm answering my own question. I do feel like there's a space for men to experience the same types of openness around relationships and relationship readiness from voices that they want to hear it from. I guess. I don't know. Do you think there's like, what do you think it is? For the guys, you know, I feel like I have seen more, though, at least in our community. I've seen people say, you know, I think I'm ready and actually step into it, which has been encouraging.

Our church, we just celebrated 10 years. And I think in the beginning of it, everybody was just kind of hanging out, everybody's friends. But I've seen it progress where people like, you know what, actually want to. get into relationships and actually want to build a life. But I do think there's always this tension with guys of like, am I ready to do this? Or do I really want to commit to this? Do I want to settle down?

But I do think they do need voices that are speaking to how they need to, what they need to do. And I don't want to put it all on them, you know, where it could often feel like we blame the guys for a lot of things. and this, you know, I think there's onus on both sides of readiness, of stepping into relationships. So I don't, I would love to probably hear from, and I have single guy friends who I talk to and it's great processing with them to see where their mind is at and what they are looking for and what they desire. And it helps to bring perspective. So I do try to get

perspective from both sides of what's happening. But yeah, I think intentionality is just always going to be the biggest thing of like, all right, do I really want to intentionally be in a relationship and do I want to do what it takes in order to be the person that can be healthy in a relationship? You know, I think the greatest barrier, and once again, I'm talking from outside the club, I do think that as we have seen women continue to move in spaces of education, entrepreneurship, that the traditional identity of what it means to be a wife no long exists or it has at least been expanded to have different expressions. And I feel like in order for us to see more curiosity about relationships and partnership

that we would have to be willing to release some of our confining gender norms so that we're not necessarily looking for the man's the breadwinner and breadwinner and the woman stays at home. But what does it look like for us to both be in purpose? and what does it look like for us to still be in partnership and to be able to be vulnerable, even though we may be power players in different spaces. And I feel like that conversation as we begin to see that become more normalized, hopefully, getting into relationships will be more interesting.

But I do every conference, it's like one, we've had relationship panels, but I feel like, one, we got to separate it because it's not just, you can't really handle, you know, the complexities of partnership and the complexities of single and being content while also. contending within the same panel. And so I do feel like faith spaces have a unique opportunity to really give voice and platform to the lived experiences of every person who's in their audience. And so I feel a call to like really try to add something helpful to that process of womanhood, but also something that's also hopeful as well.

Yeah, I think it's so needed because so many people have questions about it and I think it's the thing that people wrestle with it's either in the forefront of their mind or it's like all the way at the back of their mind as it pertains to single people

and I think healthy conversations from people who are experiencing it and I think the people who are experiencing it's like for me when I was setting out on a journey to write this sermon

I really had to think about what do I really actually think about it because you can live in an experience and not know how to actually have the language to what you need to say about what you're living in. And so it does take a work for me and I think other single people to actually put language towards the season. What am I actually feeling?

What do I want? What does this feel like? What have I learned? Where can I grow? And so for me, I think it's constantly pulling and trying to actually understand my season and not just, because sometimes we can live in the season and we're living. in it, but we don't even understand it all the way. And so there's this, let me step even outside of where my season to understand it from the

outside looking in. What affects is it having on my life? How is it, you know, on my mind and all the things. And so I think there's an understanding that us, even a single people, where we need to understand so we can properly vocalize what we even need because it's easy to look at relationships and it's easy to look at what we have seen. and just want a final package. Like, I want what they have. I'm like, well, it took them 10 years to build that. And so I think what can be challenging for single people

is that we're looking at somebody's finished product or what we would call somebody's finished product. And we're basing the beginning of our relationship based on somebody's 10-year marriage. And so that kind of gives us a skewed view where we might not even give somebody the chance that they need because they're not the person that I want them to be. but I'm like, well, we've allowed that relationship

that has allowed some flourishing to happen and some growth for them to actually get there. And so I think because of what we see and social media, all of that, because I can look through people's relationships social media, I'm like, oh, this look really good and this look really good. He needs to do this for me.

And then we start to create this false reality of what we need in our mind because of what we have seen, but it's been curated and it has taken some time to actually develop. And so I think for single people, it's understanding our season. What do we need to actually build to the things that we see? Can I ask you, as a single woman in ministry, I know how hard it is to be a woman in ministry.

I think few people realize how much ministry is male dominated, how there are still old systems and ways of thinking that a woman in leadership has to stand up to and find that. the boldness to still live in purpose while also existing in these worlds and structures can be. I think if you add the added layer of singleness, that I can imagine that there are just different, you know, possibilities for vulnerability, I think, is the word that I want to use. Can you maybe take a minute to talk to me about being a single woman in ministry, the vulnerability connected to that and how you overcome it? Yeah, I think that community has been the, I think, driving force for me

of knowing that we all need people, right? So it's evident people, the reason why people want to get married and they want to get in relationships is because we need a person or we're desiring a person. And I have found that although I might not be married yet, there are some people who God has put in my life that are a support, and I can't discount their role in my life just because they're not my spouse. And so I think that with God, you're not going to lack, right? Like, you're not going to lack on what you need when you need.

If I need it, God is going to allow me to have it. And so what I do need in this season is recognizing what he has given me. So it's like, it's that whole concept, right? what do you have in your hand or what do you have in your house? All right, cool. I got a few jars of oil and I got some flowers. This is what I have and so God's going to use what I have. And I feel like what God has used is the community and the people that are around me so that I could still live in vulnerability and transparency.

But it just looks differently with who God is placed in my life. And so I do think that vulnerability is so important and actually being able to live a life where there's accountability. in different spaces. There's this book called Soul Care by this man by the name of Dr. Rob Reamer and in the book, like chapter two, it talks about doing a total life confession.

And finding somebody to do a total life confession with him when I first read the book, I'm like, oh gosh, I got to do a total life confession. And then, you know, I did it. And then I realized the importance of living just a confessional life and the power and the freedom of being able to live in that level of vulnerability

and like, you know, all the people around. me are, you know, we've all right soul care and we've all kind of done the work where we can be able to be whole while we're still waiting for the person that God has for us. And so, the way that I've been able to live that out is just surrounding myself with community. I think that when I first moved to Miami, one of the things I prayed is like, God, I need somebody that you trust with my heart, not just somebody that I trust because I could get it wrong, but Lord, surround me around people who you trust. And he's done that where I feel like the sister

that I'm surrounded with, even my guy friends. There's just so many people where I'm like, all right, they build up the community around me that allows me to be strengthened, where I don't feel isolated, I don't feel alone. We're always going to feel that tension and that frustration. There's some seasons, I'm like, oh, gosh, it would be really nice to be in a relationship right now.

Or this would, like, when is this going to happen? And I could feel all this. There's some moments where I feel that tension, but then I'm reminded that I'm surrounded still. and I lack nothing with God. I have to tell you, I feel like the, there is nothing about, I want to say this properly,

you are anointed and powerful and necessary to the kingdom. And at this stage in your life, if marriage was going to make you any more anointed or more powerful, God would have it in your life. Yeah. But I feel like guys, it's just as you are, that I'm going to use that voice all over the world to impact the world. And I just feel like so many women need to understand that your ministry doesn't have to be on pause

just because you haven't experienced partnership, that God will cover you, God will bring covering to you, and God will still propel and project you into the spaces that he's cultivated that has your name on it. So don't, this is to you or anyone who's ever listening. Don't ever see your singleness as something that limits you from moving in the way. the things of God, because if you needed it to your point, God would have provided it, which means God's going to make the way anyway. Yes, thank you.

Thank you. I think that's such a good reminder for all of us, because you could feel like, oh, man, do I have everything that I need? Sometimes we just have to remember, I do. If I only had God, I would still have everything that I need. But he's kind that he surrounds us with covering and the pastors that I have and the community and the people. And so I'm still trusting God and I believe his promise.

And his timing is, his timing is perfect. But in my contending, it's like, Lord, there will be no more delay. You know, there's certain things that I'm, I was like, I'm still, I'm in it, but I'm going to contend, you know, and learn how to just pray and believe God for what I desire. I love contend and contend. I'm stealing that. Thank you so much for taking time to let me mind your business. Oh, of course.

Thank you. I love this conversation with Manuska, especially that we got to dive into what it means to be single and a woman of faith right now and not tying our identity. I'm sorry. I just see us as such a collective, you know, but how single women have an opportunity to still be honest about what they want while also living a very fulfilled life. And so I am prayerful that this conversation touched you, reached you where you were. If you got feedback, hit me up on the hotline. know where to find me. Content and contend.

That's going to stick with me. Content and content. Send it to your sister if you know she needs it. Your cousin, your friend. Thank you so much for rocking with the Woman Evolve podcast. Same truth next time. Same grace. More freedom.

God, thank you so much for this opportunity to be reminded that you are with us, even in the midst of chaos, that you see us, that you don't leave us, even when it feels like life has gotten hard. And we know through the life of Jesus that life will get hard, that it won't just be hard for those who do things well, but it will be hard for each of us. But thank you for being a place where we can turn or suffering turns to glory. God, I don't know who's listening right now,

and maybe they're in their suffering season. Maybe they're in a season where they're wondering, can you get the glory out of this at all? And God, I am praying that as they are in their suffering season, that you would allow your glory to be revealed, that your presence, the manifestation of your presence would be so near to them, even in the midst of suffering, that they have something to hold on to. Because we recognize that where your presence is, there is provision, there is peace, and there is strength. So I am sending strength, peace, and provision to everyone

listening to this podcast. In Jesus' name, amen. Evolve.