Woman Evolve with Sarah Jakes Roberts - For Love's Sake

Episode Date: February 11, 2026

Just in time for Valentine's Day, with love undeniably in the air, Sarah Jakes Roberts risks telling all her business in this episode alongside her man, her man, her man — Pastor Touré Roberts. As women emerge into expanded spaces of influence and self-definition, the dialogue surrounding traditional feminism, masculinity, and role reversals grows increasingly complex. And yes, this is that kind of conversation: going rogue for romance! So, what did these two have to defy to lay hold of a successful marital framework? And how do they keep the main thing…well, the main thing? Press play to find out.

When God brings someone into your life, you have to surrender to the reality that in order for your life to become the fullness of what God has in mind, you are going to have to allow yourself to need another individual. I think that men are having to rediscover themselves. What does it mean to be the man? I think that men are doing okay. They need support. And I think that when everyone takes their rightful place, all of humanity rights. You know, we are back this week with the Woman Evol podcast, and I am your host, Sarah Jake's Roberts. I am so excited about this week's episode because we get to do something that I honestly feel like we don't do enough of. So hopefully we can fix that. But I have my man, my man, my man, Tire Roberts is joining us this week. And that makes me super excited because, one, you all know that all this year we're talking about going rogue. And while being in marriage and having a partner feels like part of just what has become the conventional norm for womanhood, I think anyone who has been in a relationship that makes a demand on your vulnerability, your trust, your brokenness, your anointing knows that in order to really become one with another person, there are some things that have to be confronted within yourself.

I cannot think of any better way to talk about going rogue for the same. sake of oneness and unity and to become closer aligned to who God has in mind for you to be than in the context and covenant of marriage

and so we're going to talk a little bit about how love has grown us changed us, but also we're going to answer some of your questions so first of all thank you honey

for joining the Woman Evolve podcast. I'm so glad you're here. Hey beautiful. First of all, thank you for having me. I know your excitement and enthusiasm

about the delegation and I get to be a part of conversing with them. Having a conversation with them is amazing. So thank you for having me. I feel special. You know what? You are special. And you have been special for the almost 12 years that we have been together. It doesn't feel like 12 years.

It feels like no. And then yes, it feels like forever. But no, it doesn't feel like 12. But it does feel like forever if that makes sense. You know, at the risk of like telling all my business, I just, since that's Ella, you know what Ella would say if you start in your hands like that. Six, seven, you know. But six, seven, you know, you know, marriage for me has been an incredible journey. I really feel like one of the blessings of being able to spend the last 12 years of my life with you is that it really required growth in areas where I didn't know that I needed.

growth. Let me tell you, one of the things, you know, at the risk of, like, telling all my business is, like, I really would hear about people who were married, like, 50 years, 60 years. And I'm like, why would you spend that much time with one person? 60 years is so long to just be looking at the same person every single day. And it wasn't until you and I got together that I really understood the beauty of building a life with one another. And so I guess one of the things I want to know, if you can reach back to that time, that dark season of your life before I was yours, if you can go back.

I know we try to suppress and avoid dark moments in our lives, but if you can retch around, retch around the 12 years and go back to the moment before you found me, oh gosh, I know terrible. What is one thing that was like normal for you that was like just a part of maybe your personality or your character that you feel like you had to abandon, alter, modify for the sake of having a successful partnership?

Well, I'm going to pull that word successful out of that, and I'll use successful as the framework for my response. Not only do we have a successful partnership, but I have a successful partner. And in times past, I was the only one that was publicly successful. And so a lot of my world and my universe revolved around me. And you don't really know that until you begin to be in a successful partnership with a successful person and your universe grows and evolves, pun intended, to become one that has success not only around yourself but around somebody else. And so for me, I had to abandon something that I didn't even know that I had embraced, and that is being the man, being the one publicly.

And that was, and it wasn't a challenge, it was just different. I remember when you first came to town, when you first moved to L.A. It started kind of moving in my circles, you were my wife. You know, and then as God began to elevate you and evolve you and grow you, then I started to become Sarah's husband. And that was different, you know. I am the type of personality and the type of character that says, hey, as long as the work is being done, I don't care,

but I had to confront those moments where it felt very different to, quite frankly, not be the center of attention. And I'm an only child, so this was maybe even a deep, rooted reality. And so I had to toss away or go rogue, if you would, my insistence upon the world revolving around me. And so that was, I think that was the most rogue I had to go in that season of our lives. I'm going to answer this question for myself, but I want to dig a little bit deeper into what you said

because I feel like what happened in our marriage also was happening parallel in the world in which men were kind of being decentered from being the exclusive voices, that were in business, that were maybe in entertainment or storytelling. And I think that as we begin to see women emerge more in places of leadership, that there was this underlying fear that as this balancing comes together, what does this mean for the history of traditional masculinity and traditional femininity? And is it possible for a woman to explore the fullness of her potential and ambition while also having a partner that isn't intimidated by it or isn't threatened by it.

And is she going to be okay being in a role where maybe in some instances she is the one that's in the forefront and he's at home taking care of the children where those roles are reversing. What are you sensing as it relates to your pulse on men and masculinity as we see a shift in some of the more traditional power dynamics beginning to equalize. Well, I think that everybody, whether man or woman, everyone struggles with identity. Whether they want to acknowledge it or not, identity is one of those things that you have to settle into. And then because we all are constantly and continuously evolving, it is something that you almost have to keep your hand, your finger on the pulse of.

So as it relates to the amazing thing that has happened with women in particular, as I've often said, that the most persecuted people group on the planet is the woman because of, you know, misogynistic paradigms, what some will call the patriarchy and all those sort of things. The woman has been oppressed, and that means that humanity has been oppressed. And so to see, and I think this was God-inspired, the pendulum swing to bring the woman to the place of equality so that humanity can be elevated is an absolutely wonderful thing. She's had a long way to go. And in some cases, she's still got a long way to go. But to see that dynamic shift, first and foremost, is absolutely incredible.

Now, the flip side to that is that I think that you have good men who understand that this had to happen and they cheer it and they're excited about it. They love women. They understand the purpose and the plan of God. Notwithstanding, they still have to now, because everybody's wrestling with identity, still have to say, that's awesome for them. What does that mean for me? You know what I'm saying? because all of us are vulnerable in this sense that we're trying to settle in on identity.

And I think it's hard, but the beauty of it is we get to have our sense of what it means to be a man purified, what it sense to be a man cleaned up. Everyone knows that ego is not our friend. It's never our friend. It's not our friend in partnership. It's not even our friend in business, to be honest with you.

We all have come to understand that truth, authenticity, and vulnerability are the key dynamics that will create sustained success externally and outwardly. So I think that men are having to rediscover themselves. What does it mean to be the man? I had to learn to embrace the beauty in creating an environment for you to flourish, right? I always talk about the two Josephs in the Bible, right? The Joseph who gets all the praise and all excitement and the glory, everybody wants to be this Joseph is the one who was the number two in Egypt, who had wealth and wisdom, right?

But there was another Joseph who, in my estimation, was more powerful than him, but he has a very, very short story in the Bible. And he's the one who created an environment for Mary to not only flourish, but to birth the Messiah that would save him and the world. And so I think that men are doing okay. They need support.

It's going to be okay. And I think that when everyone takes their rightful place, all of humanity rises. I love that. I love that there's an acknowledgement of the strength of masculinity showing up in different expressions and that there is space. You know, I think that we have to understand that there is space. There's not one powerful, ambitious woman that I know that doesn't still desire a space of vulnerability, a place of connection. And I feel like when, especially because oftentimes when they're out in the world, they're having to face against systems of oppression or just chart new paths that have never been done before. And there is something beautiful about coming home to a place where it's like, man, I did it, but that was hard.

You know what I mean? we landed the deal, we closed the business, but it was difficult. And I feel like partnership is, there's no place for ego and partnership, right? And in order for it to be successful, there is an authenticity and a vulnerability that I feel like makes it successful. When I asked you, you know, what is one of the things you had to go rogue from? It's one of the things that I was thinking about answering. And this is going to sound crazy. It's going to sound crazy for me to saying, but I really feel like I had to go rogue in order for the sake of our partnership to be healthy from a pattern that I would have never called it this until we got married. I would have

never called it this. But honesty, truth, vulnerability has allowed me to give it language. And it's lying and manipulating. Like, I feel like part of my brokenness that had become my norm in our marriage was this idea of really wanting to please any and everybody and also wanting to be seen a certain way. Like I wanted to be seen as smart and wise. And I know that it was rooted in brokenness because I had so many stories that were telling me that like you're not enough, you're dumb, you're this. And so I would try to overcompensate in the areas where I needed more wisdom, needed help, felt insecure by just twisting and contorting into a version of myself that seemed like I had it all together. And it was terrible for our marriage because I didn't have the best boundaries, but I also

didn't allow you into the parts of my heart that were underdeveloped, where our love and transparency and honesty could have really served in making things healthier and I think us being closer. And that's like one of the hard things about mares that I feel like is often not discussed or maybe people haven't been able to give it language. But it is beautiful. Like it's butterflies and cuddling and hand holding and looking over and having memories. And it's all of those things. But it's also the place where a mirror is held up. And in that mirror, a person is telling you, hey, those ways or, you know, the way that you show up or the way that you communicate is harmful or it's taking.

taking away from the ultimate goal. And that is hard as having another person checking your work while you're doing it. Like I have this analogy in my head of like, you know, someone looking over your shoulder while you're doing your work and like, hey, you made a mistake. There's like, dang, that's part of partnership. It's like not seeing that as rejection or someone thinking poorly of you, but seeing that as help. That was probably one of the things that I had to really go rogue from is letting someone into the partnership. in my heart that were underdeveloped. I think, but I understand that, we walk to their journey. I also think that I grew a lot because, you know,

I had trust issues. And so I had to grow to a place to where I would be able to see those things and not, and served those things as opposed to wondering whether or not I was safe because of what I saw. And so God kind of has a way of growing us all in real time because it may not have been time based on my own growth and development for you to show me everything because it took me a while to really understand my role in our partnership

is also to serve your vulnerability in a way that is not self-serted, that makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. No, we've, I mean, me and you, me and you kid, me and you, we've been through. You know what I think was like the hardest part for me too? And I think that this was another form of my brokenness showing up. Like, it was so hard for me to believe that we could make it through things.

And I don't mean like big things, but like anytime there was a disagreement or you would just have a bad day that maybe had nothing to do with me, I would be like, oh, he change his mind about me. You better start packing up. You better start pulling back. He's changed his mind. And I feel like, you know, that level of anxiety showing up in the marriage where a person can't even have a bad day without you making it about yourself is like another thing that I had to be willing to release. Like I had to trust that one, we were going to be in it for the long call, right? And because we're going to be in it for the long call, we're going to have moments where you have had a rough day, where you're tired, where I've had a rough day. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,

And my truth can be my truth without it tearing at the foundation of who we are and learning to lean into that and trust that. Now that is one of the things that took me a little bit of time. Yeah, but you know what's powerful, and I think this is for anybody. Newly married or three or four years in, you know, as we look at the 12 years we've been together, the 11 plus years we've been married. Like there were moments where I felt like, man, we're not. seeing eye to eye, how are we going to get over this wall?

Like, just a brick wall, and we always did. And I think that one of the things, I think one of the reasons why we were able to get over every wall is because we truly love each other. Like, you are my, you know, we got all kinds of stories. I'm sure we've told before, but like, you're my person. And I think that this is why it's so important to marry the right person because you have to be willing to climb over that wall.

I think that if we didn't have that love and when we hit those walls, some walls were very, very high, so high that we couldn't even see the top. But because we loved each other, we were willing to keep climbing that wall, believing that love would get us over it. And sometimes you see couples that give up before they grow up. But I think that it's easy to do that

if you really don't have the roots of love. And one of the things that we have, and I appreciate, is the roots of love. In my estimation, I just believe that no matter what wall we hit, one, first of all, because we love each other and we care for each other, we don't want to hurt each other, we're not going to manufacture no walls, right? It's going to be the wall of ignorance or experience or learning whatever God is using to teach us. But when you marry the right person, you know that come, I don't care how high the wall is, how tall the tower, we'll get over it together. that love factor is so important. We hit this moment. It was the 4th of July of 2015.

And by that time, I've moved to Los Angeles. You know, our kids are living together. I think my bonus babies were maybe coming over like half the week and the weekend. But we're in the rhythm. We're in the throes. And I remember, do you remember this is the 4th of July and you went out to go see a movie and you came back? And we were like just trying to figure out, we were still trying to figure out how we, you know, live with one another and build a life with one another. But I think we also knew that we had gotten in kind of deep. Now, mind you, we're married.

So the fact that like we're in deep should have hit us on November 11 when we got married. But there was something about us actually beginning to build a life together that made us realize like, hey, we're kind of in this in such a way that you can't really back out. And I don't think we were planning on backing out, but there's this moment where you realize that, like, my life won't function without you in it. You know what I mean? And I don't know how I feel about that. As a strong, independent, I can do things by myself.

I don't need nobody. To come to a place where my life cannot function without you, that was so scary. I hated that I needed you. I remember he came home. and I was looking at him and he was looking at me and we could tell that things had just been a little awkward and we were trying to figure out what it was

and he finally, I don't know if it was me or you who finally was like, you know what, I need you. Do you remember that? I do remember that. I was disgusted at the notion that. Right, right. Come on, I missed a wholeness. You know, two halves don't make a hole.

I'm that guy. God. And I remember, yeah, one of us broke. I can't remember who it was, but we were mutually smitten, so it doesn't even matter. But one of us broke, and it was like, you know, we had to like, I need you. And the other said, I need you too, baby.

And that was a powerful moment. And we're not talking about no codependency. We're talking about. A God-created and formed yin-yang dynamic pieces to a puzzle that fit together. And if those pieces of that puzzle are not together, then that puzzle of purpose and passion and love is incomplete. And there was a healing in our honesty about the fact that we need each other. And that was a turning point in our marriage. Don't you feel like, if we're talking about going rogue in relationships,

don't you feel like that's one of the things. Like, when is God ordained? Like, you got to do all of the qualifiers, right? You know, watch Five Q's to identify in your soulmate. It's on YouTube. It's a video that my husband did about relationships. It has millions of views. Once you go through all of these qualifiers and you're like, you know what?

This is my person. God has brought them into my life. I'm going to surrender fully to God's plan for my life, which means to allow this person fully in. When we talk about going rogue, are you ready for this? If you're listening, you are going to have to allow yourself to need someone. You're going to have to allow yourself to need someone, which is going to be counterculture, counterintuitive to everything that you've been teaching and building about yourself. You know, I got to be able to do it by myself.

I got to be independent. You don't need nobody. You know what I mean? We feed ourselves this in order to survive. and it could be true for a season. But when God brings someone into your life, you have to surrender to the reality that in order for your life to become the fullness

of what God has in mind, you are going to have to allow yourself to need another individual. And that... Baby, baby, you just ate with that. What is it? How to go? What is it? Is this one? Is this one right here?

Yo, this one, okay. Yo, yo, you just... Man, I never thought about that because you're right. Part of the culture or I'll call the subculture of the woman taking her place. And I thank God that she has and she continues to do so is she did have to fortify herself from the thoughts and the opinions and the ways that things worked and move and to really focus and not have the support. that she needed to get there and really focus. But what happens when you get there, you know, wherever there is? What happens when you get there and you're still fighting like, baby, you won already?

You won. Take the gloves off. And the idea that you have to go rogue away from the very thing that was a part of you getting to where you are. Oh my God. That's terrible. That's profound, honey. Shucks. It is, I mean, I feel like when I met you, I had decided like I'm not letting nobody play in my face no more.

I'm going to take care of me and my kids. And I can do it by myself. I bought a house. I mean, I was taking care of myself. And I was like, you don't need anybody. You don't need this fairy tale. You're going to be fine by yourself. And then I met you.

And I wish I could say that immediately. I was like, I'm going to throw all of this away. But I was like, I'm not about to let him just walk around this earth-breathing air without me. So like, I'm going to have to do something because I'm not going to let him just walk out my life. So here I am trying to hold on to who I have become, trying to respect and honor like the boundaries that have allowed me to build a life and get focused and to not let nobody play in my face, while also trying to build a marriage with someone whose perspective makes mine better and whose protection makes me better. And those two competing identities, someone had to, they had to blend. I didn't lose all of who I was, but I had to find a way to let them blend. And I think that's the fear for a lot of women who've gone through heartbreak and relationships.

It's like, I'm finally on this other side of healing. I don't want to let her go for someone else. They have to find a way to blend, though. Yeah, I'm just, I hear this for somebody, and it's just two words, trusting again. You know, because you're right, when you just described the internal turmoil that perhaps someone, woman or male, who has experienced, you know,

the trauma in the past, whether it's the trauma of fighting to break the glass ceiling, or the trauma of being in a relationship that stripped away a sense of purpose, and identity or what have you. And then God does bring you into the new season in the career or in the entrepreneurial endeavor. Or God does bring you into the new season

where you have a man who is nothing like what you experienced before. And now you have to wrestle with, quite frankly, part of your identity because you had to become that to get there. And yet, so that's one side. of you. And then there is this new side of you that you haven't met yet, but that you have to be in order to make the relationship work. And then you've got the pre version of you, pre-hurt,

and you've got all of that arguing with one another while you're in a relationship. That's exhausting. How do you just let go and let God? I think it's trusting I don't even want to say I think it's trusting that who you have become is not temporary that you really learn those lessons sometimes we cling to the lessons

because we're afraid that if I forget I'll end up in the same situation but when you really allow what happened to you to metabolize and to change you and transform you to trust the wisdom that you have gleaned as a result of your experiences is now a part of who you are.

So you know I'm back in school and there's so much information being thrown at me. It's like sometimes I don't know what I'm supposed to remember what I'm not supposed to remember but what I have learned is that I ingest the information and then when it's time for me to take a test

or it's time for me to have a conversation that I'm able to pull from it with ease because it's all, It, like, deposited well. You know what I mean? Like, I received it. It was metabolized properly. That even though I'm not clinging to it

or trying to hang on to everything that's come my way, I'm able to pull from it and extract from what I've been exposed to. And so I think it does come down to trusting. When you have done the work, like, whatever that means for you, like I sat in it. I understand how I got in that situation.

I understand that, you know, there was some pride. There was some hurt. I really understand how that became a part of who I was and I know who I want to become on the other side of it. I think there is a trust, but I don't think you can trust it if you're constantly like sweeping it under the rug and just trying to survive.

So if it's just taking pieces and chunks of your life, right? Because sometimes if we take all of it at one time we'll be overwhelmed and ready to throw it away. But like let me examine this one aspect of my life and the mentality I had going into it and who I was in it and what happened on the outside of it and what I know about people that I didn't know

then what I know about myself and what I'll do from a place of desperation or what I'll do from a place of depression. Let me understand who I was to really look at myself so that I know that that's in me and to really trust that I'll see the signs differently, right? Like I'm not the same person that I was. I'll see the signs.

I'll make better choices. I'll take better care of myself. I don't have to worry about repeating who I was. And also, I can be fully present in the potential of what this could become. Honey, that's so powerful. Because when you start talking about trusting again, you're talking about trusting yourself, right? I'm not the same person who got hurt.

I'm not the same person who got hoodwinked and betrayed and set up. I have changed. There's this passage, one of my favorites in Hebrews, and it says, cast not therefore away your confidence. And that word literally means the Greek word. It means expectation. It says, for wherein there is great reward.

And of course he's talking to a very oppressed people, people have been through a whole bunch of stuff because of their faith. And Paul says, don't throw away your expectation. And that's what happens in life oftentimes. We get hit and by many things and we get hit so hard that we lose our expectation. We lose our optimistic expectation about good coming our way so much so that when good walks right in front of us, we can't even see it because we're not expecting it. And so it is, I went through it, but God delivered me.

He brought me through it. It didn't kill me. If it didn't, you've heard the old adage, if it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger. So I have become something, and I'm not going to let what I went through, which is a part of shaping me into who I am, to keep me from expecting, believing,

and, hey, knowing that good things are coming. I expect to be treated well. I expect to have a partner who will support me. I expect to, for, listen, tell you something. For all that I went through, I'm expecting double for my trouble. And so it makes me all the more optimistic. And I can rest in that.

I can trust again because I know who I have become as a part of it. I'm stronger now. I'm wiser now. And I don't have to protect me. I'm good. Yeah. I'm good. You know, I want to say that.

And then we're going to get into some mind your business questions about relationships. But I do think it comes down to trusting yourself again and to trust those lessons. But you know what I also think? I think you also have to find a way to have compassion and love for who you were then too. Because I feel like part of the reason

why we can't trust ourselves again is because we hated who we were in that moment. Like when I think about my own life, like I can remember, even though I have moved to a place of compassion, I can remember like hating that I was that stupid. I can remember hating that I did some of the things that I did in my previous relationships, like hating that I would just,

you know, put myself on auction, hating some of the people who I allowed access to my heart and my mind and my soul. And I can remember just hating that I was that person. And it's hard to trust yourself again when you hated who you were in that moment. But I think if you can find a way to trust yourself again because you realize that that person was really doing the best that they could to try and fix a hole that was only God's size. And they didn't know that it was a God's size hole. And so they were trying to let anything that could feel them or make them feel touch a part of them that was only meant to be reserved for relationship with God. I feel like that was helpful for me too because it's hard to change yourself and hate yourself at the same time.

And I think that that's why you kind of end up having these huge regressions is because you're trying to forget that that part of you existed. But what would it look like if you embrace it? that is who I was. And, you know, when I look back on it, yeah, I would have made different choices, but I would have only made different choices because I know the outcomes now. But in that moment, I did the best that I could. And now that I know better, I'll do better. I love that.

I love compassion towards that version of you. And then you also are doing the new version of you at this service because I have a saying, you know, about regret. And the reason why I'm not feeling. regret is because regret is charging the current version of you with the crimes of a previous version of you. And that previous version of you doesn't even exist anymore. And so, so yes, you forgive that version of you and move on. But why does the new version of me have to be accused and judged? And so that's what kind of regret does. Regret like, I'm, listen, let me tell you I don't have any regrets.

Are there some things that I wish that I would have done better? Sure, you know, but the I that wishes that he would have done better didn't exist at the time. That I did. What a did. Right, exactly. So it's kind of not fair, and it's not fair to the current version of you. The current version of view has obviously evolved because you could look back and say, what was I thinking?

Well, as you think you are, which means that you are what you think. So if I'm thinking differently, I am something different now. And that is something to be celebrated. Love it. Okay, let's get into some of the... Let's see if we can get at least two or three of these.

We have a lot of them. And you're going to come back. We're going to talk about all different types of things this year because I'm going to put myself on your calendar because I have access to it. So we'll see you more. But, okay, so the first question, says, hi, I'm currently in a relationship and we are discussing engagement soon. I've been warned

not to perform or show up as a wife before I am married. I am wondering as a woman, how do you define the lines between girlfriend, fiance, and wife when it comes to behavior and mindset? This is a great question, but I want to ask, before I answer it, baby, I want to know, you know, will he buy the cow if he's getting the milk for free? Oh gosh It all depends on what the milk is You know Oh I see what you're saying

Amen It all depends on what the milk is Is it skin milk? Is it 2% milk Is it whole milk? You understand what he's saying Is it almond milk? You know what I mean?

Sometimes you got to give them almond milk But you know you got whole milk on reserve Huh? Okay, go ahead Yeah I don't think That You should withhold

who you are from someone that you are seriously considering having a future with. Because I didn't marry you, I didn't choose you to marry you for who I thought you would be later. I married you for who I saw you as. And I said that woman is my wife, right? And so I don't think that you should, now I do think you ought to have boundaries.

I don't think that, you know, is what I teach my girls, you know, guard your heart, right? Give your heart slowly because once you give your heart entirely, it's hard to get it back. And so as you walk with a person and get to know a person and discover certain patterns, then you release yourself and all you have to offer in increments as the consistency of the gentleman begins to prove that it's worthy of you. So giving your heart is giving you. So that's how I would say. I wouldn't want you to, I don't want to marry you and then I get all of the person that you are. I'm not talking about intimacy.

Let's just cut to the chase. I'm not talking about intimacy. I think that intimacy is so important and so valuable that you need to be absolutely short, the both of you need to be absolutely short on the same page before you move there and, you know, and waiting for marriage and that kind of stuff. But intimacy comes in a lot of different shapes, forms, fashions, and flavors. You know, I think that your heart is the issue. He needs to see your heart before he knows, this is my opinion,

he needs to see your heart before he knows that you are the one that he can trust his heart with. And so don't, so, so, so be yourself with boundaries. I agree. I think, you know, as it relates to performing as a wife, I think that when you're in a relationship with someone, that they should be able, especially over time, like as you're getting to know someone, they should be able to access, you know, as much of you as you know is there. Because the reality with relationship is that as you build a life with someone, there's going to be parts of you that you didn't know existed that you'll be introducing to a partner. But I think, you know, you go from your favorite color to maybe some of the more painful moments in your childhood over the process of time. how they've shaped you and what your dreams are over the process of time. And I think that that is

totally acceptable, whether it's girlfriend, fiance, I think that that's what happens when you experience intimacy with someone. But I do think one of the things that we've even talked about as it relates to then building a life with someone where like, I need you to do my laundry or, you know, my bills don't work unless we're to get like that part of building a life with someone, I do think it's something that should have the covenant of marriage connected to it because we're talking about building a life that is so tangled together

that I don't know where you end and I begin and I do feel like that is something that should be reserved for marriage. Now, you may have to take your heart back from someone as a girlfriend, maybe even as a fiance, but in a marriage, I do think that when you start, my bills don't work without you,

my kids can't function without you, I think that those are things that should be reserved for marriage. In addition to, like, P.T. talks about intimacy. Like, you can't just be getting these cookies. You know what I mean? Like, we need to really know one another deeply and well. I need to know that you're trying to spend the rest of your life with me,

that you're not out here, you know, swiping it, swipe or no swiping. You understand what I'm saying? Like, we need to make sure that we're on the same page about that. But I do think even outside of physical intimacy, that many times we end up just kind of functioning and building a life with people. And not to say, I will say this, because there are plenty of stories of people who maybe their relationship started this way, and then they decided to get married.

And they have some success stories there. But I think that as much as you can when you do have a choice to say, you know, there are parts of my life that function as an independent person that I want to continue to allow to function from a place of independence until I have some assurances and insurances that come with marriage. That's my two cents. Anything we need to fix, we can we can fix. Okay So, well, we kind of answered this Someone wanted to know Is it possible to trust again, heal, and move on in a marriage?

Oh, this has got a caveat after infidelity. I'll say I'll say yes, for sure. Yeah. Obviously, I'm going to toss the PT, but for sure. And there are a lot of couples who share their stories about experiencing infidelity and building trust again. That isn't an experience that I have had where I've been able to trust again and heal. But listen, my testimony is not everyone's testimony.

But one of the things I will say just from someone who is a consumer of different stories and different experiences, that part of what has made trusting again and healing again. And Carl and Laura Lentz talk about this a lot on their podcast. And so does Tina Campbell and her husband. Teddy, I think it's Teddy and Tina Campbell. I'm looking at their Instagram name in my head. They talk about healing after experiencing infidelity in marriage. But a lot of it has to do with radical honesty.

You know, you can't heal from something that we aren't being radically honest about how it happened and why it happened and the impact that it has had and what does change look like and how do we keep it from happening again. But it is possible. It's just from what I understand that it takes work from. both people, a willingness to allow that person's space to change and a willingness to allow that person's space to heal from the impact of it. But PT, what say ye? Yeah, I think with God, all things are possible. You know, I want to start there. I do think that it is important

not to underestimate the impact of infidelity, the impact of the violation of trust. And I do think it depends on the histories of the individuals. I mean, there's some people that, man, trust is their thing. And trust is one of those things. You can't like partially trust somebody. Maybe you can do that in business, but you can't do that in a relationship, not in marriage.

And so when trust is violated, it does contaminate trust. And it's kind of almost like the body. I mean, the body can recover from some viruses, you know, but then there's some viruses that killed that particular body, you know, look at COVID, and I mean, I'm going to digress too far, but COVID killed some people, some people survived it. It just depends on the makeup of the person, the emotional makeup of the person. But I do think that when it is ordained to work, with, to your point, you know,

honesty, a, you know, as someone who trusts a big deal for, for me, I would need to reverse engineer the infidelity. I would need to, if I were able to understand all of, you know, which requires radical honesty, if I was able to understand all of the dynamics that went into the infidelity, and I can see grace and I could see, you know, repentance, and I could see a way forward, then it's possible. And to a certain degree, that level of openness, honesty, transparency, and intimacy could, in a weird, bizarre, strange way,

actually strengthen the bond. And so with God, all things are possible, and I do think it will work, But, you know, again, it kind of goes back to that love thing. If your love, if your love, if those roots of love aren't deep enough for you to really want it, then you might as well move on because there has to be a why. It can't be a, I'm going to stay together because the Bible said, well, God has joined together. Let not man put asunder.

There's a lot of nuance to that passage. It has to be, you have to have a conviction about the marriage. you have to have a love that's strong enough to scale the wall of infidelity. Okay, and before we go, P-T, a lot of questions that people have is not just like how do you balance it all, but like how do you keep your bond fresh

in a marriage where you're working and raising kids and tired and dreaming? Like, what are some tips that you would give for, you know, just keeping your love? alive? You know, for me, the most important relationship in my life, the most important human relationship in my life, the one that feeds me, keeps me sane, keeps me aligned, balances me, makes certain that I can show up in all the spaces that I'm called to show up, lead, govern, and have impact in is my marriage. And so, so I prioritize my marriage. And Sarah and I, you know,

we have a covenant, man. God has blessed us in a number of ways. We're, we're, unimaginably blessed. But we also are like, we've got a pinky promise. Like if all this that these doors that have opened and these things that are happening in our lives, if for one second it begins to threaten our marriage and our family, we will shut it all down, sell everything,

and live in a one-bear-room apartment, if it means we're being together. And so, yeah, we both are called. You know, we're both the parable, the five talents. We both have multiple enterprises, multiple gifts, we are multiple. And you put that together and that's a multiply multiples. And so all the opportunities are there. But we connect.

We never get too far away out of the boat in those things. A lot of those things, if we don't do it together, we talk about it together. And we just keep the main thing, the main thing. And for us, the main thing is being together. For sure. You know, I think one of the greatest things that we have done, too, is like we have made our own definition of what date night looks like. There have been times where we, like, got dressed up and went to dinner. There have been times where we put on sweatpants and just watch movies, but literally hop, movie theater, hop from theater, theater.

And then there are times where we just close our door and watch Chicago PD. And I feel like allowing ourselves to remove the pressure on what connection has to look like or because it has to look like someone else is. or it's not enough has been a benefit to our marriage. And I think also what keeps our love kind of fresh is that we maintain a posture of honor towards one another. You know, we're not perfect. Of course, we get tired and we're like, you know what? You know, I don't think that you're appreciating me enough.

But for the most part, I will say 95% of the time we are going throughout our day realizing that there are some things that we are able to do because the other person is making a sacrifice that allows it to happen. And so part of what keeps our love for us is seeing the invisible way that our lovers love, their strategy, their wisdom, their care has allowed us to experience whatever moment we're standing in. And I feel like that keeps it fresh even without us having to do anything, but to just see our life in the role that that person plays properly.

And we work hard. We work very, very hard. But we also don't take life all that seriously. It's not that theory. Get that serious. We're going to be honest with you. Even when it come to these kids, we'd be like, you know what?

Forget these kids. Like, I'm not about, you're not, one thing about it is you're not going to stress me about it. No, absolutely not. No, we don't put a, we should, maybe we should. We don't put a whole lot of pressure on us. Because it's all gods anyway. You know what I mean?

I'm just here trying to do the best I can to translate what he's saying. But when I can't translate, we're just going to go with the flow and just, just depend on body language and body movement to get us there. Delegation, the jokes that we have, the time that we have in the car. Sometimes we don't even want nobody to drive us. We want to drive ourselves because we're going to laugh and laugh and laugh. But to keep it light, to keep it light, to keep in love, you know, and to stay lifted. At the end of the day, it ain't that serious. Listen, we're hard workers.

We're going to do what we're going to do. We're going to raise our kids. We're also not going to let this life take the fun of this life. No, you're not about it. So you know what? All that said, you know, when you talk about relationships, you know, marry your friend. Marry your friend. Yeah.

That makes all the difference because you need to. a friend in this life. And if that friend is also someone who you get to build a life with and build businesses and babies and ministries and books and nonprofits, all of that's amazing. But make sure it's a friend. So that's it. I love you. Thank you for coming on my podcast. I love you too. This is fine. I got to get you on mind. I would love that would be an honor and a privilege. I feel very called to your podcast. Yes, if people are listening and they want to learn more about your brilliance, but they don't want to get beat up,

but they want to learn more about your brilliance because it's a WOMI ball podcast. They can't call you too much brilliant. We're trying to get the sisterhood alive. You know what I'm saying? You can't just be like they can't learn too much more about your brilliance because we sisters and I would hate to have to do somebody crazy. But if they want to learn more about just what you're doing, where can they find you?

Everything, Tori Roberts. It's at T-O-U-R-E-R-E-R-E-R-R-E-R-R-R-T-R-R-T-C-com, and the call podcast, I think you'll appreciate. Yes, I will tell you that, you know, one of the things that I love about my husband's purpose and his calling is that I feel like God has given me the gift to connect with people from different walks of life to maybe meet them where they are and to journey with them. One of the things that makes our partnership powerful is that my husband has this macro perspective of the world, of the kingdom that helps you to understand, yes, where you are, but also how do I begin to move the needle towards destiny and purpose with intention and utilizing all of the tools and technology that are available to me? So when you listen to the called podcast, this is for anyone who feels like there is something on me. There's something in my life. There's something about this idea, but I don't know how to fully bring it into the earth and to scale it in a way for it to have meaningful impact.

The Called Podcast is an incredible tool to help you do that. And so, you know, we can key key in mind people's business over here, but also when you're ready to really get real serious and intentional about that thing that God has given you, I highly suggest that you tap into the called podcast. So thank you, baby, for who you are in the earth and who you are in my life. Happy Valentine's Day to you. Happy Valentine's Day, baby. Love you.

Love you too. Evolve.