Woman Evolve with Sarah Jakes Roberts - From Addiction to Audacity w/ Dr. Jasmine Williams

Episode Date: July 9, 2025

Let's be real. This one is for the woman juggling healing, hustle, motherhood, and a whole lot of prayers in between. Sarah Jakes Roberts sits down with Dr. Jasmine Williams for a conversation that's as transparent as it is transformative. From navigating a messy divorce and battling addiction to building a thriving business and becoming the first millionaire in her family, Dr. Jasmine doesn't hold back. They talk co-parenting when the peace feels impossible, building with what you've got (even if it's just an iPhone and a robe), and choosing to believe in what could be, even when life feels like it's falling apart. Whether you're in a dark season or walking out your healing one baby step at a time, this episode is a reminder that God's plan still stands. The audacity to grow, dream, and be better than what tried to break you? It's already in you. Tap in and take your permission slip.

When I read scripture and there are things that I question about, did this really happen? Did that really happen? I don't necessarily feel like something that's false just because I don't understand it. I may not be able to understand how it happened, but the question is, do I believe, do I believe that it is possible? You've got to say, you know, God, I'm going to start even if it doesn't look perfect. And now there's a journey because I can show, look, y'all, this is where I started. And now I've gradually gotten better.

So don't be afraid to start with what you have and where you are. What's up, family. This is your girl, SJR, and you are listening to The Woman Evolve podcast. I am recording this on Monday, July 7. And yesterday was a big day, probably one of, you know, the biggest days in my life as my husband and I were installed as the senior pastors of the potter house, Dallas. And I think that may be. And I think that, making the announcement for us becoming the senior pastors was more emotional than the installation, but the installation was heavier than I think I anticipated. Mind you, I'm coming off of a long weekend, but I woke up this morning and I felt a heaviness. I felt a heaviness yesterday too, but not like a, not a grief, though I do think there were elements of grief in just that, that this wasn't necessarily my plan. Sometimes when God's plan for your life reveals itself, no matter how majestic it is, it still requires that you grieve what you thought your plan was going to be

while also celebrating God's plan. And I feel like it's a disservice to not acknowledge that. And there is a responsibility connected to this that I take very seriously. And as a result of taking it very seriously, I feel the weight of that. I grew up in this household, this, you know, Jake's family household. And I've seen so many aspiring pastors and ministers who felt like this was the final destination. Like if our ministry arrives to this point, then we'll be successful. And I think because I saw all of the behind the scenes of the physical cost, the emotional, spiritual cause, the relational cause, that I just wanted to see something different initially for my life. It wasn't until we came to Dallas the last few years that I think I really began to recognize the, um, the, um, the, um, the, um, the, um, the, um, the, um, the, um, the, um, um, the, um, um, the, um, um, the, um, um, the, um, um, the, um, um, the, um, the, um, the, um, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the.

the harvest connected to the cost. And I think in recognizing the harvest connected to the cost that, you know, I have surrendered and told God, if you make this clear, I'll say yes, I'll go wherever you want me to go. And so I have been feeling that heaviness. And I feel for me it's multi-pronged and that I recognize that there is a spiritual depth the maturity that is going to be cultivated and developed with an audience, with, you know, the potential for criticism, with the reality of feedback. And with the acknowledgement that there may be praise that could tempt me to stop growing at a time that I know I need to keep developing.

And so navigating, you know, doing this in front of people, but not for people. And that really pulls that a, I just dove right into the business. But anyways, that really plays into this area of healing that I've had to have and just recovering from the shame of teen pregnancy and, you know, feeling maybe like a black sheep and maybe not embrace and accepted by people and then to be like swung in a completely different pendulum and not, that doesn't feel safe either. And so I had to really lean into God, trust God, lean into my close circle, and to really allow myself to be centered and anchored, not swayed, you know, to or fro by praise or criticism, but to be really anchored and more like Jesus. And so I've had to work on that over the last few years. But I will say that Sunday

stepping into the moment, I had Saturday of heaviness, you know, all throughout the weekend, like, oh my goodness, what is this? But there was something that happened on Sunday, which the only thing I can compare it to is when Woman Evolve went from, you know, 3,000 people to 40,000 people within one year, there was this moment where I wondered, like, is it still going to be the same? Like, is it going to lose what God's giving me? Am I the person who's capable of leading this movement, of facilitating this move of God and making space for God in this environment, bringing the right speakers, doing the right worship songs, worship?

like is am I the woman for the job in this? And I question myself and question myself right up until it was time for me to go out and speak. And the moment that I stepped out to speak, it was like a peace settled on me where like I knew that I had it. Like I knew that I had what it took. And I feel very similar to what happened yesterday. So that piece just kind of landed on me where it's like, I can do this. I can do this with God through the Holy Spirit, growing, not where I'm going to be yet, but capable of saying yes. And so I woke up this morning capable and tired. I don't know if that's anyone else's testimony, but I woke up capable and tired. But it was a beautiful day. It was an emotional day, but it was necessary. And I just feel so grateful. I think the announcement,

obviously there are, well, not, maybe not obviously, but the announcement, we got so much feedback from, you know, people who have grown up with Bishop T.D. Jakes as a voice in their lives and their spiritual growth and development. And this idea that this voice is moving into a different sphere may not be as available, which although he hasn't been preaching as much since we've been in Dallas, I think the acknowledgement and announcement of that really took a toll on people. I'll never log in again. That'll be it. And so there is this like underlying, you know, once again navigating like this little girl world of like trauma and rejection where I'm like, okay, we're going to step into this. We're going to do the best we can, but we're going to be

prepared to be rejected. Be prepared to be rejected. And sometimes we can be so focused on being prepared to be rejected that we don't know what to do when we experience love. And when you have built a life, building walls to make sure that you're protected when you are rejected, protected when you are abandoned, protected when you are misunderstood, When you build a wall to take care of yourself in that way, when you receive love, you reject that too because it doesn't feel safe. And so part of the work of growing and healing is the reality that God loves on us through people. For God to love the world that he's in his only begotten son. He loved us through Jesus.

And the love of God reaches us through people. And if we don't find a way to open ourselves up to people, even though that means that some people may hurt us, we may miss out on the people who can heal us as well. and there are people who are assigned to be a part of your healing. And I am embracing this reality as I step into this space that I'm not so focused on those people who could reject, those people who could hurt, those people who could wound, that I'm into people who are there to support, to love, to encourage, to affirm the gift of God that's on the inside of me. And I believe that you can accept something without relying on it, that you can allow God to be your sinner. in your core, your relationship with Jesus to be what propels you, the development and coaching of the Holy Spirit to be what guide you and lead you while also allowing God to love

when you through people. So that's my work. That's what I've been doing. And I'm excited. I, you know, I've always been someone who's, you know, got into my word. Not always, child, not always, but as of late, you know, since my life has kind of taken on this trajectory, I've always kind of, you know, been intentional about having my own relationship with God and studying. But even now, it feels like there's just so much that I am learning about God, unpacking about our response to who God is, and what prohibits us from seeing the fullness of God, what stands in the way, what barriers exist, while also wanting to share that with people, which I feel like is really positioning me to feel like a whale that'll never run dry

because I keep tapping into who God is. So, you know, that's how I am. Outside of that, I got, I came back from vacation maybe two weeks ago, and I felt like I was coming down with something, and whatever it is, I'm still fighting. So I'm starting a steroid routine today because I got inflammation or something in my lungs. Did that came me from running three miles? No, because one monkey ain't ever stopped no show, okay? So I got up this morning.

I worked out. I definitely tweaked something in my hip. I'm about to be 37 and 37 is acting like she's trying to tell me to stretch so that I can be limber. So, but beyond that, I'm good. Family's good. Marriage is good. My husband and I keep looking at each other like, what have you gotten me into? Just because, you know, this is a commitment. And I realized that I wasn't just saying yes to like preaching every Sunday. Like I'm saying yes to growing with people, to watching our parents' age, to bearing. people, to marrying people, to watching our children, you know, go to graduation, come home from school, get in trouble, get out of trouble. Like, when you pastor church, you're signing up to do life with people and to be a part of the dependable voice that they can count on. And for someone who's an introvert, that can be like, oh, my goodness, do I have what it takes? Do I got this? Do I got this? And I got it. I want to love God's people well. And I'm grateful because I know that God, will allow me to be loved well in the process as well. So boom, shakalaka God is good.

This week's episode is going to be a good one. Talk about testimonies and your life just taking critical, pivotal changes. I feel like our guest for today's podcast can speak to that tremendously. But before we get into that, I want to take a minute and answer some of your mind, your business question. So let's get into it. Hey, Sarah, girl. My name is Shimoni, and I have like a weird little question. So I just feel like I'm growing in my faith and with my word every day.

Like my life has changed. Like God has changed my life. From last year to this year, I am a completely different person, and I absolutely love it. But sometimes I do feel like, and I try not to speak about it a lot, because I don't want it to come to reality, I guess, in a way. But, like, the more that I'm in my word, the more is, like, I question, did you just really do that? Like, you know, think God really, you know, and it's just like, okay, Shemarney, you

got to stop. You can't question God like that. Because I feel like that's on the verge of, like, blasphemy. But my brain, my heart, my soul knows, like, believes 100% of God. You know, God has, he's done miraculous things in my life. I have plenty of testimonies, but then yet, like, the overthinking part of myself was like, okay. But, like, did that really happen now? And I really, I don't know why I have those thoughts or why I, I question God in the things that Jesus did.

Because it's like, I'm not like, that's the enemy. So I cannot even speak about it because I don't want it to become my reality. you or anything because any of me you cannot have me you don't have a hand on me you don't even have a senior nail on me nor my family nor my loved ones my close friends none like I do not belong to you I am a child of God will always be a child of God and I'm going to follow in Jesus's footsteps all my days all my ways we love y'all way but it's just like why do I have those thoughts and it's like I pray and pray and I ask God to remove this overthinking in me like I do not want to always think anything and I understand like sometimes my overthinking is helpful because it makes

them become really cautious but majority of the time my overthinking just be overtaking me and I don't want that and I know questioning like okay did that really happen hmm like you know I've never obviously like physically seen God, but like, I know that's where faith comes in at you know, I have faith. And I don't know. It's a battle because 99.9%

of me 100 will truly, truly believe in God and love God and I would never say I do not believe in God because I was a man of God and I'm living life in God's way and baby I need to make it to heaven. That's the goal. I actually stand

this question so bad because first of all, I'm sorry that the voice will cut you off, but I feel like I got the point of what you were asking. But I really love this question because I think that that is part of the reason why many of us kind of question what we're reading in the Bible. And if we question what we're reading in the Bible, then we begin to question the God of the Bible. So the first thing I want to say is that you should not subscribe to any faith, specifically Christianity, where it requires you to suspend your asking of questions. At the point that you're not asking questions, you are not engaging with scripture, you are engaging with religion, and Jesus wants us to be in relationship with him. And we see

so many times throughout Scripture, throughout the New Testament in particular, where people ask questions of Jesus. And Jesus responded to their questions. And so the problem isn't necessarily with the questions that you have. It's who you are taking those questions to. So the enemy in the garden does supplant a question into the minds of Adam and Eve. But instead of them asking the question to God, who they were in direct relationship with, they started engaging with the enemy. And when we engage with the enemy with our questions, he's going to continue to sow doubt. And so turning to God in those moments of questions, like, God, can you unpack this for me?

God, can you help me understand this is when we begin to engage in relationships. So the enemy is going to make you question things about God, question things about your purpose, your identity, question things about God's heart and intention towards you. But you just have to know that the person who gives you the question can also give you the answer. And so taking those questions, it's like if someone asks, oh, and this is one of things that I hate, especially as a leader, someone comes to me and they have a question about someone on the team. One of my first questions back to them is like, have you talked to them about it? If you have a question about who God is, you need to start talking to God about those questions. I will tell you, I've had a similar question myself in my faith journey. And one of the answers that God has given me is multifaceted.

I'll tell you the first one is this. There are math questions I don't understand, science and mechanic and engineering that I don't understand. I do not understand how a plane can be that heavy and fly in the sky. I do not understand how it feels like we're not moving at all, but we're also moving at warp speed. I do not understand how these sales get together and turn into human beings. I don't understand how, there are just so many things, how weather events happen. I don't know, like, sure, the clouds and rain, but like, where is it coming from? There are so many things about the way that the world works that I don't understand.

So when I read scripture and there are things that I question about, like, did this really happen? Did that really happen? I don't necessarily feel like something that's false just because I don't understand it. you know what I mean? Like, I don't understand. So then it's like, okay, so I may not be able to make sense of what has happened. I may not be able to understand how it happened. But the question is, do I believe, do I believe that it is possible that the same God that, you know, breathes his breath into humanity, the same God that has allowed these weather events to take place? Like, I believe that this started with God. Like, I just don't believe that this world just came to be. I believe that there was a, mastermind behind making sure that every, this ecosystem was working together and that the plants were releasing oxygen and the sun was doing something to the plant. Like, I believe that there is a mastermind strategist behind this that has so much wisdom and so much knowledge that he is able to make sense of things and make things work together that I could not possibly fathom.

Do I believe that that same God who did that can do the things that I read about in scripture? For me, the answer is yes. The answer is yes. the mechanics of it, how, the eyewitness like that, that I don't, I can't get into that. But do I believe that the same God can do that? I do. The other thing is this, one of the things that helped me too in my journey is as we traveled the world, we went to Rome, we went to Greece, and we looked at all of these structures that were created and all of these buildings that were still standing, like some buildings were like hundreds of years, BC years old. And it just reminded me Like this, like, we are in the year 2025, we are like babies in comparison to what has taken

place in the history of the earth. And to know that there are all of these things that took place like Jesus existed in this time. And at this time, there were so many different elements of what was taking place in the world, so many different Greek gods and structures that were created. I mean, pyramids that were created. Like, there are so many things that have taken place throughout the history. history of time that now I'm not really questioning whether or not this era existed. What I'm questioning now is whether or not this person existed in this era. And if this person did all of

these works and all of these miracles in such a way that here we are over 2,000 years later still talking about them, the answer for me to that is yes. There were Greek gods and all different types of deities that existed during that time that we're not still studying. But there was something about Jesus, something about what he represented, something about what he preach, that even the test of time has allowed that power to still exist. And so for me, the answer is yes. Now, you know, I am not a theologian. I study a lot. I'm not a scholar. I study a lot. And there are probably so many more profound answers to this question than the one I am giving you. But I am okay with my knowledge having limits, but my belief not being restricted. And because I'm okay with

my knowledge having limits, but my belief not being restricted, I don't necessarily need to understand whether or not historically factual events took place in the Bible in a way that I can scientifically prove as much as I am asking myself, do I believe that God's power is powerful enough to do the things that we're talking about in scripture. And it's, for me, it's yes. You know what I mean? There's a song. I feel like there's a song or they're just saying.

You know, it's an old saying, an old song that it's not coming to mind right now, but at the end of the day, it's kind of like, you know, I know too much about them. You know what I mean? I have seen things happen in my own life that were miraculous, that were powerful, where the power of God showed up. and I believe that that power was showing up in that culture, in that era, in a way that was resonant, and that allowed us to experience, you know, the stories and messages that we read in scripture. I hope that this helps you. And let me know what you think about this. Leave me another voice memo.

I hope we can reason together about this. So here's the question. Why would you settle for safe when exceedingly and above is giving main character energy. Today we're talking about turning the impossible into a whole testimony, and I am passing the mic to my guest, Dr. Jasmine Williams, better known as the Atlanta hair doctor, who shares how to step out on faith before having all the answers, because let's be real.

Her brand isn't just about edges. It's about entrepreneurship and empowerment. So it says, stop overthinking, start believing, and go get what's yours. Our girl, Dr. Jasmine, is going to lead the way and helping you understand how to turn your trials into triumph. I love her testimony, love her story, and I believe that you will too. So this quarter, we are talking about the permission to explore the impossible. And so I want to talk a little bit about what is something that is in your life right now

that you once thought was impossible? A person, or is it just like anything? anything just like in yeah a reality that is yours right now that you once thought was impossible okay you had to tell me oh now mm-hmm okay so um one of the things i guess there's two things that i felt like was impossible girl it's a couple things honestly um okay all right um with me and my ex-husband actually being able to co-parent um that's one of the things because we was going through this really bad divorce and we got these children

and I just felt like we wouldn't be able to really, really like, get together to really like co-parent and raise our children. Another thing would be like building my relationship with God because I didn't grow up

with a praying mother. You know, I didn't grow up having, seeing anybody who was like, you know, pray, you know, so I never thought I would really, really have a close relationship with God. And, um,

The last thing would be me actually becoming a first millionaire in my family. I never thought that I would be able to do that. Okay, so that's like, okay, that's something personal on the family side, that's something spiritual, and then entrepreneurship. So when you look at your life and you consider all of these different impossibilities that have become your reality, is there one that means the most to you? And I guess what did achieving, whether it was successful co-parenting, becoming the first millionaire in your family, or really tapping into a spiritual relationship with God, how has it changed the way that you see God? That's good. I feel like it increased my faith. The way that I used to operate was, you know, this very scarcity mindset of like,

you know, well, I don't really care if we ever have a good relationship when I really did. And so now I feel like looking back, it's like, wow, like God really can, you know, help us through some of the roughest times in our lives. Oh, wow. Okay, I love that what you just said was like you didn't think that it was possible, but now that you see that it is, I am wondering, how did your belief system change? Like what inside did you gave yourself permission to want something that you said you didn't really want? You know, because I feel like so often we do have people who say like, oh, I don't want this and I don't want that. When really we're just afraid that we can't have it or we're afraid that if we say we want it and we don't get it, that will experience disappointment. And so do you feel

like God just kind of like gave it to you and you didn't change your mind or did you change your mind and decide that I really do want these things and then God started ordering your steps. Yeah, I for sure feel like I had to change, I had to change some things about myself, right? The things that I was saying, I felt like I was so, you know, like, well, I don't need to help. I don't need to help. But, you know, raising two kids on your own, it's like, no, I really do need to help. So I had to go and do some work on myself. Oh, I love that because if we are going to talk about the permission to explore the impossibilities,

we must come to a place where we are giving ourselves permission to truly express what we need and express what we want. What kind of work did you end up doing on yourself? Well, I realized that me having an addiction to drinking was like something that was stopping a relationship between me and him, only because the alcohol would bring out another character in me, that in my opinion. So I had to do that. I had to start admitting that some of the things that was happening, I was part of the reason that it was happening.

I think often we can always look at the other person, but it was so much that I was doing that I was adding to us not being able to effectively co-parent. So I had to go. I started reading my Bible. I started the Bible app. I had to stop drinking. I had to stop smoking. There was so much that I had to do.

And those are just like a few things. That is amazing Do you ever look at where you are now And like, man, I cannot believe How much easier it was than I thought it was going to be You know, I don't know if it was like easy I felt like it was like really, really hard I really do I feel like it was hard

Because oftentimes, especially with drinking It brings out different spirits, different energy attitudes So I feel like it was actually really, really hard To give it up Yeah, to give it up It was. And but now that you're on the other side of it, like, I guess I just wonder, because I know that there's someone who's listening and maybe they're struggling with addiction and they're

thinking it is really hard to give it up. And I've been in, whether it was a toxic relationship or having a toxic addiction, I can relate with the idea of feeling like it's really hard to give up. I just wonder when we're on the other side of it is who we become on the other side of giving it up worth the pain of letting it go. Because I think that that's what happens with a lot of us is the pain of letting it go feels so much greater than whatever's possible on the other side of it. And every now and then we need a testimony from someone who's on the other side who's like, yes, that pain was real. But also this life is so beautiful that it was worth the pain.

Does that, do you feel like that makes sense? Or is that part of your testimony? Yeah, it is because, you know, I say this often. I'm calling on a weed man. I'm calling on, you know, I'm going to the liquor store. So changing who I had, who I was calling on was the ultimate thing that I had to do. And so what happens is, especially when you have trauma, whether it's a bad relationship, you know, it's family. A lot of times we're taking shots to that stuff. And so just, you know, the trauma, you're taking a shot to it. You're taking a shot to the abuse, the molestation, or whatever you may have experienced. And so though it was hard for me to fight that, there will be times where in my mind would be like, if you had a shot of Hennessy, girl, all this will be just go away. But then I also have to understand. I understood that that's like going to be good for the next, what, four or five hours and then what I need another shot. And so when you think about God, it's not, it's not, it's forever lasting. It's not like a temporary fix.

And so that's something that you can think about if you are in a season where you just like, man, like, girl, like I'm struggling. I'm going through this, I don't know how to give up an addiction. I think extending yourself grace, because none of us are perfect. So just extending yourself grace saying, you know what, I'm going to try to let this go. You know, if I can't just give it all up today, let me take some steps to it. You know what I mean? Like, baby step it. I like to say that.

Yeah, I feel like baby steps make change tangible. Transformation often feels so radical that it's like, oh, I can't go from not. drinking all of the time to not drinking at all. But can we space the drinks out? Yes. Can we skip a drink? You know, I feel like there's an opportunity for baby steps. I loved Irene Rollins shared about her addiction to alcohol at WomeneEvolved 2024.

And she did say that she has seen an experience spontaneous recovery. And that has been the testimony of many of the people who were even in the room at Womon Evolve. but I do feel like whether your recovery is spontaneous and you just instantly are able to let it go cold turkey or you say, you know what, I have to take baby steps. We are all getting to the same finish line. You know what I mean?

And so don't compare your journey to someone else's or think just because God didn't deliver you overnight from the addiction means that you're stuck battling it on your own. Sometimes deliverance takes a process. It's not something that happens overnight, but it doesn't change God's heart and desire to see us deliver. Yes, yes, that's so good. And that's the thing that when we think about like whatever addiction it is,

we think about just like, oh, it's going to be, you know, if I could just give it all up, you just want to, but allow yourself grace. You know, you didn't become addicted overnight. You know, you were, so allow yourself time to process that. And I feel like baby steps is something that has always worked for me. I heard in 2020 that you had every reason to feel stuck, but you, decided to see possibility instead. I'm wondering, can you tell me a little bit about where you were in life in 2020? Without crying, yes. So in 2020, I moved to Atlanta and I was married. I had been

married for almost 10 years. And three months later, we went through a divorce. We separated. And we had two children of like five and four and seven. And I end up moving out for the first time. I was very scared because I'd never been, I never moved by myself at all. So the pandemic happened. So now I'm like in this new state by myself, no family, no friends. And I'm doing hair, but I don't really have a lot of clients. And that's when I learned at that time I needed to do something different. And I was working so much. I remember my daughter coming to me and she said, Mom, I feel like you love your business more than you love me. And it broke my heart. And I was like, I got to figure this out. Because I was working son up.

to Sunday at like 15 hour days. I was taking them to work with me. I was breaking promises. We going to the ice cream shop at 9 o'clock. And, you know, 9 o'clock, we still at the salon. And I felt awful as a mom. I really did. I had a lot of mom guilt.

And while going through this divorce, literally battling with my ex-husband, we meeting at the police station. We are just going back and forth about the house that we own. We cannot get alone. We can't have a conversation. that was the most and that was my best friend too

so that was the most traumatizing thing I'd ever experienced that was my 2020 but then what was the moment where everything changed and pivoted for you in the midst of that

as a mother and as a woman experiencing singleness for the first time what do you feel like pivoted for you yeah I started a product line I started formulating these products

and once I started doing that, I started creating content around it. I put myself on like, okay, you know what, I'm going to have to do something within the next like two to three years because we were sleeping on my apartment floor and it was infested with water bugs and, you know, I didn't see life how I see life now. I think when you're in it, you know, I wanted to give up. I was so depressed. I was heavy. My skin was bad. I was having like really bad suicidal thoughts. I was, I was really in a dark place. And so if a woman can hear me and she's there, it will get better. Cry when you need to.

I used to get in the shower, cry, cry, cry, and get out like a superwoman. You know, allow yourself to process that feeling. It does hurt. It is going to be hard, but you cannot stop. It sounds like some of the things that you told yourself during that moment is like, this can't be the way that things will be forever. Is that helpful in those moments where you're like, this has to have an expiration date?

Yes, yes, exactly. This is just a chapter. It's not my, I have to keep, it's just a chapter, it's not my whole book. And then I will always say, you know, I'm alone. I don't have anybody. I have any friends and family. I remember going into my apartment and God put it in my spirit,

like, but you have me. And you haven't even really been like, you know, talking about that. And I'm like, dang, you know, and we don't think about that. You ain't, the daddy ain't openness, ain't working right, but you still have God. that gave me, that put fire under me.

How did you practice connecting with God during that time of struggle? I know for me sometimes when I'm going through a struggle, it can be easy for me to kind of avoid God because I'm like so disappointed that he hasn't fixed it, changed it. But it never fails whenever I get out of my feelings, out of my sense of entitlement, and I start turning to God and I'm like, just, you know,

God, I'm just lost and I'm stuck. that I begin to see him comfort me, give me peace. And I feel like from that place of peace that I'm able to see the possibilities that exist in my world. But I'm wondering for you, when you were going through that difficult season, like, were you praying more? Do you lean into worship? Is it like you do the exact opposite of what you may be feeling or believing and really just trust God in a new way? Yeah. Back in 2020, though, my relationship with God wasn't, when I was married, let me go back a little bit.

I didn't know who I was and whose I was. So while going through the divorce and being broke, I'm building that relationship. So, you know, now I'm five years in. I'm much better. But then I didn't really, I was like praying. I would do stuff like with the kids. We would always pray for their father. I would always pray what I wanted our relationship to look like.

Like, you know, we're taking the kids here. We're meeting here. And that was so hard because I think like when you feel like anybody, you're just not in the best with, on the best terms with a person. You tend to not want to pray for them in a way that you know you should. For sure.

We could be honest, right? I really don't want to say this, but these were things that I knew I had to do. And, you know, fast forward to now, we have a great relationship. But it was so hard. It makes us more like God when we pray the things that God is praying

over our enemies or over the people who we are you know, at enmity with for whatever reason. Like instead of praying, you know, Lord, I hope they get their act together and that they see what they've done and that they come and apologize to me. But like, Lord, bless them. Help them to know who you are and to show up from a place of love and peace. That is some grown folks praying right there.

And saying, you know, God fix me if I'm the problem because I was a problem with some of it, you know? I'm going back and forth. So God, help me become the, the co-parent that you know that I need to be in this situation because I was the problem with some of it. Yeah, tell me to see my role and how I keep you from being able to show up in me. I feel like that's a powerful prayer.

One of the things I love about your brand is that it's not just about hair. Like, it would be one thing to just say that you have a hair care line that is phenomenal at helping you restore your edges, maintain health and thickness. That would be enough on its own. It's not just about hair. It feels like it's also about empowerment. And I'm wondering, how do you help women see their worth beyond what they do or produce? Oh, that's good.

You know, I tell women all the time, right? Let's just say your follicles are completely dead and you don't have any hair. You are still beautiful. You're still worthy. Sometimes hair is our crown and we all want to have our edges. You know, I suffer too with CCC alopecia. But I always tell my sisters like, it is okay if the follicles are gone and there's nothing else you can do about it. But, you know, wear you a wig or wear your hair bald.

Like you're still beautiful. You're still worthy. So those are some of the things that I talk about. That's so good helping women to see their beauty in every stage of life. I feel like you're the perfect person to do that because you literally have found the beauty in different stages of your life and how to move past them. When you start feeling afraid now, so you're five years into your walk with the Lord, you've knocked off some things off your bucket list that you maybe thought would never be possible. What does it look like for you to still be dreaming and pursuing purpose right now?

Like what are some of the desires that God is placed in your heart? One of the things is to continue to tell, preach to my women and my sisters, that life is not always going to be the way that it is. You know, I just remember it feeling like I just wanted to give up. And so now, I mean, yes, I have the product line. Yes, I've created some amazing things. I still feel like my purpose is sharing with women like you could be broke. You could be broken.

You could not know God. You could feel lost. You could feel lonely. You could feel like you're losing your mind. And as long as you are going to continue to pray, even when it's hard to pray. Sometimes when you're going through it, you're like,

because you're steady thinking about the problem, but to really, really focus in and say, you know what, God, I know that the plan for my life is to prosper. And so that brings me excitement. That brings me joy.

And so for where I am now, one of the things that I want to continue to do is be a voice. Like, I just believe if God brought me through it, you're going to be the same way. Like, he's going to get you out of this. but don't be afraid to do the work because remember I had to stop drinking

sex and texting gossiping I had to do a lot of that stuff I love that you are willing to share your story because there are some things that will not be possible until we see someone who was in our same situation, same circumstance begin to walk out their own healing

and it's like I didn't even know that was possible but because I see that it was possible for Dr. Jasmine now I know that it's possible for me too. And that's the beauty of connection and sisterhood. Have you gained any mentors or sisters throughout this process that has been helpful for you?

Like sisters that are like helping me or I'm helping them or? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like sisters or mentors who are helping you walk out, you know, your purpose and just being a support system for you. I know you said when you moved to Atlanta, you felt like you were all alone and so I'm wondering what this

community look like for you now. So I have actually I got invited to a prayer pajama party and I was like no no no I was like I'm not going to go because I have a little way about myself I'm still getting comfortable being around like groups even though a lot of people may think that I am I'm still there's some things I'm still struggling with there with just like having success guilt when I became you know this person that people probably looked at a certain way I lost friends. And so now it's like, well, I don't want to really get too close. And then y'all fall off. But I prayed about it and God told me to go. So I ordered the pajamas. So there's a group of women there. Other than that, I am meeting people.

Man, I love how you keep finding a way to, like, make yourself open and, like, trusting God with your outcomes. Like, I'm going to say yes. I'm going to trust God with the outcomes. And we're going to see what happens. Yeah, yeah. I'm wondering what's one piece of advice you'd give. to a woman who's afraid to start healing. She's afraid to start her business

because she feels like she doesn't have all the answers or she doesn't have everything that she needs. My piece of advice would be to start where you have, start where you are with what you have. Okay, so when I started my business, Sarah, I did not have a videographer. I was taking pictures with my iPhone and ring light.

I was mixing bottles. I was ordering bottles from Amazon. I was mixing. I didn't have fancy bottles. I had to go on vista print and order these stickers that didn't look good. But that was where I was and that was all I had. And I think all too often when we are looking to start a business, if it doesn't look like you're comparing yourself to somebody who's been in business for years, if it doesn't look like hers or if it doesn't look perfect, that's a lot of it. Perfection. It's not going to look like this. So then I don't start. But you got to say, you know what, God, I'm going to start even if it doesn't look perfect. And now there's a journey because

I can show, look, y'all, this is where I started. And now I've gradually gotten better. So don't be afraid to start with what you have and where you are. How did you learn about entrepreneurship? Was it something that was always in you or were you learning while growing your business? No, I was, when I was married, I was working at a corporate office and they fired me. And I went to beauty school. And my whole family was so against it.

My mother was like, people are not always going to let their hair done. Don't do it, don't do it. but I wasn't the type to really like school. And so I was like, you know what? I'm going to go and I'm a bit on myself. I am the only entrepreneur in my entire family. Wow. So little things like knowing like, oh, this label doesn't look good.

Or like that says that there's a better way to brand it. There's a better way to market it. Even using your iPhone and putting yourself out there on social media, which I think is something that people struggle with. Like they'll start a business, but then it's hard to tell people about your business. It's hard for you to get behind it. but you have had this ability or cultivated this ability. How did you know, was it just instinctual?

Like, how did you know what to do once you actually had the product? I knew that I had to use social media. That was like the only thing that was in. It's like no red book, no radio. So I knew I had to use social media. But a lot of not showing up is our confidence. And so I also experienced that. I wasn't confident because my skin was so bad.

I was super overweight. So I wasn't confident showing up. So I think if we identify what is stopping me from showing up, now let me go and work on it. So I don't like my skin. Let me work on that. I know I felt like I, even somebody could tell you you beautiful all day long, but if you don't feel that, let me go and work on that. And so that made it easier for me to show up and talk about my business. I also think for my sisters, you know, be as raw as you can when you're starting it. It helps you as you continue to grow. because, you know, I don't always have, I could be in a bonnet, I could be in my robe. I don't always have to be like, you know, just ready. And I think for a lot of us, we look at people like, oh my God, I got to be perfect.

I got to do it. And it's like, no, you can be in your robe, holding your baby and doing your content. Like, it's okay. It's okay to start that way. I love that because I feel like it's most relatable. And it's true. One of the things, like, I try to resist is the need to like, I mean, I definitely put on my clothes. I can definitely be put together, but then I can also be somewhere with a bonnet on.

Talking about there's a pimple on my face and the kids are driving me crazy. Because that is truth. And I feel like it is much easier to build a life when you're not having to pretend to be someone you're not. And if you can't be that person 24-7, then you should be able to bring all of yourself into that moment. And I'm sure that's what people fell in love with as it relates to you. Yes, being authentic. Yeah, some days, like you said, you are going to be super dressed up. But some days you're like, listen, I'm a mom and this is what you're going to get.

And that's okay. And people are, you know, those are the best videos. So don't be afraid. That's again showing up with what you have and where you are. I had my one robe from Walmart and I wore that robe out. I still got me. And, you know, it's people love that. They love authenticity.

How do you keep on dreaming? So like I said, you've achieved the success as it relates to your business in particular. What are some of your next goals? Well, I want to continue to partner with hairstylists. I want hairstylists to have our products using them on their clients. I want our products to get in more countries. So that's one of the things that I'm really working on as far as business. And I really want to continue to teach women.

I have helped so many women, work less, make more, start their own product line. And that make me feel good. So a lot of girls right now have their own product lines because of my teachers. Oh, that's so good. If there's someone who's listening right now and they're interested in starting a product line, what are like three pieces of advice you would give them to help move them in the right direction? Well, I always talk about start with what you have. So the first thing is I would do a job for them figuring out what it is that people want.

That was the biggest thing. And I think a lot of people miss that because a lot of times you may start a product because this is what you want. always want it, but you're not buying from yourself. So what is it with the issues that they're having right now? I would do a quiz and I will post it on my page, hey, tell me the three biggest scalp or hair issues that you're having. And based on that, I would try to, you know, call the people back because that's what I had to do or read the comments, respond back to them, and I will formulate something around that. One of the next things I would do is I will start showing up, even like right now, even if you don't have the product, educating women, whatever it is,

if you find it specializing braids, locks, weeks. So a lot of people probably like, I don't have the money. That's fine. You have a phone. You have Instagrams, TikTok. So you can start showing up and say, hey, let me show you three things that you should do when putting on your wig. So though I don't have the wig yet, I can still give tips because you're positioning yourself

as that expert. And the third thing that I would do is I would start to seek out. one of the, maybe they got a free program, like a coach or somebody that is in your space that is doing what it is that you desire to do. I love that. I know that's going to help so many people understand, like, how do I take this from what it is now and into what it can become? Like I said, this quarter, we are talking about the permission to explore the impossible.

I am so proud of you, Jasmine, of how you have explored the impossible as it relates to blending your family post-divorce and discovering who God is for yourself, even though you don't feel like you had the heritage that many people have. I wonder, what does it feel like to be the praying mother that you didn't have? Um, you know, it feels, it feels a little, sometimes it feels like I knew that I had to be this type of mom for my children, especially with my addiction. So I'm honest with my children, I let them know that I, you know, all of my trauma, that's why I was smoking and drinking because I wasn't using the word of God to fight what I was experiencing. I was using these substance. And so now, you know, praying with my kids and teaching them all about God and like,

this is the only way you're going to get through this, right? So whatever they choose, they choose, but I am telling you that this is your armor here. It feels sometimes like, sometimes I kind of feel like I'm like the only one. I have sisters and brothers, but I wasn't raised in church. My mom never taught me about God, never prayed with me. So it sometimes can feel like a big stretch.

Like right now, my family's in town. And so the routine that I do with my children, my mom is like, you do all that? I'm like, yeah. Mm-hmm. Wow. But it's like they, you know, we wasn't raised like that.

It takes such bravery and courage to be what you have never. seen and to not cave in or to change when the people who maybe don't understand it are seeing a new version of you. But I just want to commend you on your audacity. That's the word that I keep hearing as you're speaking is that like God gifted you with an incredible spirit of audacity. And I feel like you had your addiction and you had to go through some hard things in your

divorce and transition and probably traumas that we do. didn't even talk about. And yet none of those things killed your audacity and everything you are right now is just a reflection of that. So I'm just grateful that you explore the possibilities as it relates to, like I said, your spiritual journey, what co-parenting looks like, but also entrepreneurship, and that you're doing it. I can imagine sometimes it feels lonely to do it on your own. Yeah. But to know that you've got comfort in the Holy Spirit and that God is like bringing people who understand you into your life and who has been introduced to this new version of you. I think it's just God's way of continuing to love on you because we need people who don't mind

going against the grain, standing for righteousness, and changing the way that their family has done family. And I just commend you on your leadership and your innovation, even though I know it's not always easy. Thank you. And now I'm quiet. Thank you so much. I know it's hard.

I know it's hard. But it's so like Jesus to do the hard, right thing, even if not everybody gets it. Yeah. And so you're leaning into it. Thank you so much. My pleasure. Thank you for taking the time to talk with me today. No problem.

Thank you for having me. It is not lost on me that this is the weekend after the 4th of July. I don't know if you got into fireworks and cooking out, but I do know the fireworks. fireworks have fizzled. The grill might be steel and cooling down, but I've been thinking, what does freedom really look like for us? One of my prayers is that we don't just celebrate freedom, but that we start living like we're actually free. What would that look like for you? We're on a 40-day fast leading up to the Woman Evolve conference, and we're 19 days in, and our focus is all about the race to freedom. And one of the things that I am learning while

on this fast, and let me tell you, the fast is fasting. is that there's so much glory in the middle. If we find a way to stay in position, to not find ourselves so focused on the finish line that we miss out on the endurance that is being cultivated in the middle season. You know, I have taken up running, and I feel like after I hit about two miles that I begin to find my sweet spot, but getting to that two miles can be really hard.

I haven't been running as consistently this month just because my schedule has been super crazy. but there's this moment when I first started running was like, I'm out of breath. My heart is racing so hard. It's like, oh my goodness, I'm going to quit. And I can choose to stop the treadmill and peel back, or I can choose to not keep pushing, but to settle, to settle into it. I'm not pushing harder.

I'm settling into this is my pace. This is my race. What type of breathing pattern allows me to survive this moment? What type of mentality is required for me to settle into this? And when I make that mental shift, I'm not pushing myself and I'm not stopping. I'm settling into the race. It makes all the difference. You may be in the middle of a race right now.

Maybe you're trying to figure out what your life is going to look like post-divorce. Maybe you're trying to figure out like Jasmine. How do I navigate entrepreneurship? Maybe you're like me and you're stepping into this new role, a new title, and you don't know if you will finish well. Right now, let's not focus on finishing. Right now, let's take a moment and settle into this race. For the race is not given to the swift. Do you remember that scripture and the power connected to that scripture? When we realize that this is not about how fast I am going to go, but rather it is about me allowing myself to really breathe in the moment. That scripture is in Ecclesiastes, 9-11. And you know,

I wish I could pull up my logos. I can't pull up my logos. Okay, it says, I return and saw and understand that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, nor bred to the wise, nor riches to men of understanding, nor favor to men of skill. But time and chance happen to them all. Okay, when I read this scripture, one of the things that I'm recognizing is that the race is not predictable, that battles are not predictable, that those who give,

bread are not always those who live under this predictability, but the reality is that all of us are going to have to settle into the unpredictable nature of life and not believe that we can strategize our way through or to avoid struggle or difficulty through our strategy. Instead, we have to trust God, lean into God, and allow God to direct our path and all of the things that we do. We're three weeks away from conference. I'm excited. I feel, man, I feel like there's just going to be great glory that awaits us at conference, that I am going to be someone different. And as a result, I pray that God allowed me to unleash the difference in you. Maybe you're already walking in something different. But together, collectively, what we're learning as we walk into this next stage of our lives, I believe, is going to create a throne for the spirit of God to rest on.

So thank you, Jasmine, for sharing your story. Thank you for allowing us an opportunity to connect. I know, and I've said it once, I'll say it again. One thing about them tables, baby, they are always turning. And Dr. Jasmine, sis, you just gave a master class on resilience and strategy. You literally took what was meant to break you and built an empire instead. If this conversation taught us anything, it's that the only thing that is standing between where we are,

and where we're called to be is a little faith and a whole lot of action. So one of the things I pray for you is that you will get moving today. God, as they're listening to this podcast, may it bring strength to them. May it bring hope to them. May it add to their perseverance. May it build their endurance. May they be reminded that they are not the only one doing hard things with scars and wounds and battles, but still showing up for life.

as they trust that as they lean into that God I pray that they would experience your spirit that they would experience the power of God refilling them as they pour the power of God leading them on and giving them ability that they would never have in their own strength may the grace of God and the mercy of God meet them every step of the way God opened their eyes so that they don't miss when grace is standing right in front of them open their heart so they don't miss the moments where you're your love is being poured out to them. I thank you, God, for what you're going to do in the lives of every single one of us. Help us to take note and to stand in awe and wonder as we behold the glory of who you are. In Jesus' name, amen. Evolve.