Woman Evolve with Sarah Jakes Roberts - Having Tough Conversations w/ Nedra Tawwab

Episode Date: May 24, 2023

W.E. wanna know, are some things better left unsaid? The very thought of opening yourself to a discussion that brings about discomfort is likely to create emotional distress, Sis. That’s why SJR invited New York Times bestselling author, licensed therapist, and sought-after relationship expert Nedra Tawwab on the podcast this week! Whether you’re saying “hard” things or receiving “tough” criticism, accountability is key. Press PLAY to explore how to stop being so offended and just talk about it. If you haven’t done so yet, sign-up at WomanEvolve.com/connect to have weekly devotionals greet your inbox!

God can't bless you for ten to be or who you compare yourself to. He can only bless you and the lane that was created for you. I feel that for somebody. You don't need no itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch, itch their all things, all things, all things. Try. My dad always tells this story about when I got pregnant. And he says it because people always ask him what he wishes he would have done differently. Now, anyone who's heard my story knows that my parents

they step aside me. I didn't get kicked out. They didn't embarrass me. They didn't get kicked out. They didn't embarrass me They didn't make it a big thing But in hindsight there are still some things that he wishes he would have done differently and one of those things is he says that he Wish he would have gotten me therapy Now of course at the time I didn't know to export. I didn't even know what therapy really was But now that I am in my adult years,

I completely understand why that would have been something that would have been useful for me. When I look back and I think to myself, what would I have said if I found myself on the couch of a therapist talking about that season of my life? A lot of thoughts come to mind. I think I would have said, I'm scared, I'm nervous, I need you,

I'm upset, I'm angry. So many words that I did not say that got stuck in my throat instead. And now as an adult, as I am navigating my life and I'm having the ability to tap into therapy and so many tools and resources, there are still some moments where I feel like that girl who's got words stuck in her throat. All of the things I couldn't say, didn't have the language to say, didn't have the space to say, it still shows up for me in my adult years. And I think to myself, when I am in one of those stuck moments, what is it that you're trying to say?

And it's most simple form, what is it that you are feeling? And usually it comes down to some of those same things. I'm afraid, I'm upset, I'm angry, I need you. Those tough conversations that we need to have with ourselves, I believe are the beginning to us having tough conversations with others. If you don't take the time to sit with yourself and say, what is it that I'm feeling? How can I give this language? Even if it is the most basic language, even if it feels like the most dramatic language, I'll start with where I am until it boils down to what's really

authentic, but you have to learn to release the words that are stuck in your throat. It is even more important that we do this, not just for ourselves, but also when we engage with other people, because there are going to be moments where they cannot be inside of your head, and they need you to open up your mouth and share with them what it is you are experiencing and how you feel. It takes a lot of work to do that, to be open to tough conversations. That's why this week we are going to talk about how we become someone who was hopeful when it comes to having these tough conversations, hope that we can remain open, hope that we

can say what needs to be said, and I think even for me, hope that I can listen when I am on the receiving end of that tough conversation. If you're like me, I want to do all of the talking, but I don't necessarily want to do the listening, and yet part of my growth journey has been me coming to a place where I can hear tough things even about myself without throwing the whole me away. Girl, get you out the trash can.

We're going to dust you off. We're going to come to a place where we are open, brave, courageous and vulnerable and Nedra Glover to wipe is going to help us on this journey. If you don't know who she is, let's just say that Christmas came early. I want you to log on to Instagram and follow her immediately, especially for my girlies who are not into therapy just yet. You may not be into therapy, but therapy can get into you by following her page. She's constantly giving us language tips and tools on how to show up in our lives and

how to make boundaries that help us to remain the journey of wholeness and growth that we are on. She is a two-time New York Times bestselling author. Her book, Drama Free, just came out and if you are anything like me, there is nothing wrong with being a little more drama free in our lives. I can't wait for how this episode is going to help you. It's going to empower you. Most importantly, it's going to give you everything you need to be open to speak,

open to listen, open to grow and evolve. So, let's get ready. You have been giving us all of the tips and tools for having difficult conversations with family, I am constantly reposting your graphs, your graphics, your memes, telling us how we can show up in spaces where it is often difficult to have conversations, I think especially in relationships. And so today I just wanted to talk a little bit about like initiating tough conversations, especially after you've

maybe let things go one for a long time in your life. A lot of the women who are connected to our movement often feel inspired to make a change. They're ready to really start speaking with more authority and to have boundaries, but they've been a different version of themselves in their friendships and relationships for so long that they don't know how to do it. So can you tell me like how do you begin to have the tough conversation of I'm changing and I no longer need from you what I once received?

You know, changes first reflected in your behaviors. So sometimes we think we have to have a conversation when an actuality we have to show up in the world differently. If I decide that I will no longer gossip with my family about other family members that means that my behavior changes when that starts to happen. I withdraw from the conversation or maybe I say, oh I I don't want to say anything about this. You start to do something differently. So there sometimes is a need to say to people, you know, hey, I'm changing and these are the things I'm doing differently. And also, there are

other times when we just need to show up differently and people can catch on that. Oh my gosh, this person is not who they used to be. Wow. That's so interesting, because I do think that we like to announce our transformations before they happen. It's like, I just want everyone to know, I'm totally different.

I'm the same right now, but in about three months, I'm going to be totally different. And so start treating me that way now. Yeah, that's a big proclamation to make. I like to think of humans as less of what they used to be, right? Like when I think about like, you know, maybe some petty tendencies I have, maybe it's just petty thoughts now, right? Like, I'm not completely clear.

But there are some times where it just stays in my head is not necessarily coming out in my behavior. And maybe it still comes out in your behavior from time to time, but less. And so sometimes when we tell people like, I'm no longer doing X, we're leaving little room for our humanists to show up in situations. And we are human. You know, we will not always, you know, I could be a morning person. That doesn't mean that I wake up every single day at 630. It might most mornings, you know, but sometimes I sleep in to nine. So how do we leave room for flexibility without having to declare that I am this one way now. Yeah, that's so good and I think that's going to be liberating for a lot of people

because we do want to make these big declarations and often when we end up finding ourselves back in our old pattern, we feel like we've lost in some way or maybe we're not progressing in the way that we anticipate it, but that idea of just be less so that you can get to more, I think, is really liberating. You said something once. I think it was on an Instagram live, and it was about your daughter. And I think you were doing her hair.

And, you know, she was cutting up as my seven-year-old does when it's time to get hair done. And you let her know. Like, I think she said she wasn't going to be extra anymore. And you were like, I'm glad because it's really annoying when you do that. And let me tell you what type of liberty that gave me. Because I be trying to gentle parent.

And I just want to know, like, can I tell her she's getting on my nerves? You want to talk about tough conversations? It's like, how do we draw the lines with these children and make room for our humanity and irritation and annoyance while also not trying to wound them. I think a lot about that even when I see your posts, like I would definitely wanna apply this

to my family dynamics, but how can I also make sure that as I'm raising a child that I am not just catering to their emotions exclusively without making space for myself? emotions exclusively without making space for myself. Well, I like to, and in my household, I normalize loving people and a part of that being that they will annoy you, right? So when my daughter is annoying me, I let her know because in 10 minutes, she's going to say her little sister is annoying her.

So it's one of those things, like we can be annoyed by people we love. That's not necessarily a bad thing. I don't love you because you annoy me. I'm just saying in this moment, I'm a little irritated. And so what I say might be a little saucy. What I say, you know, it might not be what I would say if I wasn't annoyed. But there are

some things that other people do. And it could be helpful for them to know that. Like when you notice this shift in my mood and you're doing this particular thing, this is why. Anointment is a feeling. You know, I'm not calling you a name. I'm not saying you're a terrible person. If you want to hug, I will give it to you. But there are moments when you do things that bother me. And I bother my kids. You know, if I abruptly say, hey, get off your tablet and go take a shower, I just annoy them.

Yeah. So, you know, I think it's this thing that we do in relationships where we're honest without people having to feel like they have to do something about it, right? Just because you're annoying me, it doesn't mean that you stop screaming. I just want you to know.

That's what I do. I do. Yeah, I just want you to know because you may see me slapping something down on this table or harder than normal. And that's what I'm gonna explain what's happening here. Yeah, yeah, I meditate sometimes after I do here because I gotta find myself again.

I gotta find myself again. Oh my gosh, you know, a part of it is, you know, with the parenting that is more intentional that many of us are doing now. We have no concept of what that felt like as a child. And so for me sometimes, I'm like, girl, I didn't even have the audacity to sit here and yell and scream and be kicked out the hair dresser

like you are doing. Like I didn't have that freedom. And so when you're doing it, a little bit of it is like me misunderstanding was possible. Me envying it maybe, right? Like, oh my gosh. I can't believe you're acting like this. And it's like really, what a freedom

to be able to say, you know what, this is how I feel about something and I will express it. Because there are times when I get my hair done and guess what, it hurt and I sit there and I bear it. Yeah, you just take it. You just take it. You know, so maybe this kid is a metaphor.

We don't have to say anything. Let me tell you something. I can't tell if you're helping me or hurting me right now. Because my seven year old, little mama says what's on her mind. She, when she needs to express herself, she like hold on, you didn't let me finish speaking. And there is a part of me that's like,

do you know that like I would have not been able to fix my lips to say some of the things you're saying? And maybe there is like a little bit of envy in that because she does not comply to whatever rule, whether that rule is legitimate or not. They ended up making me need years of therapy in my adulthood. But I think about this a lot, because I mean, I want to get it right. I think any good parent wants to get it right, but I also want to make sure that I'm setting her up to be a successful

adult who can be a team player and all of those things is such a fine line. It feels like a fine line. You know, I saw you recently having a conversation with your mother and I thought, wow, you know, I think it was around Christmas time. Maybe you are wearing your pajamas and you were talking having a really open conversation and I was thinking, you know, for many Black women, they still can't do that because of the fear that was instilled in them, the compliance that was instilled in them, the compliance that was instilled in them to not be able to open up. And it's interesting because parents will say

you can talk to me about anything. However, in their behavior there is a show that actually I can't talk to you about anything. I can't feel anything with you. So when there are big moments and things that we need to discuss, we don't know how because we haven't been able to yell when we was getting our hair count. Yeah. Or you know, just all the stuff that we're not able to do. So when it gets to a point

of I really have a big emotion. I have this problem with this boy or hey, I need help with deciding this thing in life. We can't even talk to them because we haven't been trying to talk to them in that way. Do you think that means that for those of us who are hoping to parent with intention? I like the way you said that, that when we have these moments where like our generational parenting ancestors rise up and say snatch that child. And we insist say no, we're going to let them be free and communicate. Do you think it's better to err on the side of openness than it is to shut them down with

that goal and mind of them being able to advocate for themselves in the future? Absolutely. I think, you know, I've the first first half of my career, I work with kids and teenagers. And the things that they talk about is probably a lot of stuff that we thought about as teenagers. Their friends, tattoos, dating, you know that stuff. And it's really harmless, but they need to be able to express it. And what I noticed that parents would do, you can't date nobody, you can't get no tattoo, or you can do a lot of conversations about something

without having to say no, because once you talk to them about some things, it's just a conversation, it's not necessarily a goal. It's, well, what would you want one of? Where would you want it? Now, what kind of job do you want? Ooh, have you ever say somebody, you know, just asking them questions,

not saying you can't do it, but people can talk themselves out of things. Kids and teenagers are very reasonable and thoughtful human beings. And if we allow them the space to have conversations and opinions, you'll be surprised of the good decisions that they can make. That, okay, that's so strong. I've, I don't, I recently moved back to Dallas.

I was living in the LA with my husband for eight years. And Dallas is the city where I was raised. It's where my dad built his ministry. And, you know, I got pregnant here, all of these things exists here. And so being back here has been me kind of like understanding from a more holistic perspective, some of the trauma and silencing that was required in order for us to like present this picture. And I think that I am learning that that silencing really has been something that I'm like learning to undo in my own relationships

and really using my language to show up. So I am applying it to like my 13 year old daughter and inviting her to have a dialogue with me. She told me the other day, she's like, my my think I'm a wait at least until I'm 16 to do things. And I was like, well, wait a minute. Let's talk about that. Like what happens at 16, but the fact that she was even open to having that conversation with me, sometimes I wonder, like, am I doing this right?

Am I doing it wrong? But I do love what you're saying about being able to have that conversation. So they are exercising their own mind. It's something that I really hope to continue to Inspire in them. I want to ask you a question though because you're talking about annoyance and how that's perfectly human perfectly normal for us to experience that emotion What is the line between I am annoyed and I am Constantly being angered,

constantly being intentionally picked at, because I think when we take it out of the concept of like mother and child and something that we know is pretty common in raising children and then move it into adult relationships with siblings or parents, even romantic relationships. And this is beyond annoyed. This feels like an intentional desire

to see me act out of character or to make me feel insecure. How do we know when we've moved past annoyance into something that has some abuse or... I don't want to use violence because that may be too strong of a word, but this is bigger than being annoyed. I feel like someone's intentionally

inflicting pain on me. You know, I think with emotional abuse often, there are these underlying things that we don't recognize, like the backhanded compliment or not even receiving compliments, not being appreciated sometimes. Especially when someone is able to show appreciation for others who are doing the same thing as you.

There is this dismissing of how you feel, a dismissing of what you think that certainly can weigh on your spirit. And in those situations, we started with how do you have heart conversations. I think when a person does something, that's when we go standard is, that's when we say something about it.

That's when we say, wow, you just dismissed me and I was saying something that was important to me. And you cut me off or you told me I should think this way about it. If you can't do it right away, I would say, when you find yourself like thinking, thinking, thinking about how offended you are about what someone did, the way to stop being offended is to talk about it. So it could be 24 hours, one week, two days, the way to stop being offended is to talk about it.

So it could be 24 hours, one week, two days, whatever time frame, work up your courage and just let them know how you feel. I've certainly had situations where I felt like, ooh, that felt like a dick. And I might have just sat with it and maybe talk to two people about it. And they was like, girl, it's a dick. And so, and so, you know, I've caught people and say, hey, I saw you yesterday and you see at this thing.

And to me, it felt like a dick. And I just want you to know that I don't like it when you say that sort of stuff to me. Now, sometimes people get defensive. But what tends to happen is they don't do that exact thing anymore because now they know I see you. How do you do you think that there's a certain level of fear of rejection that you have to no longer possess in order to have those conversations. Because I can hear people in my head, but like, but then they're gonna be acting funny,

or then we're not gonna be able to go to lunch anymore. So it's better that I say nothing at all. You know, I am a sensitive sleeper. I don't know about you, but if anything happens, I cannot sleep. If you get all my nerves for too long during the day, I'm waking up at night. So the way I love my sleep is just, I have to have peace of mind. And a part of that is, you know, we don't think about the impact of not having those horror conversations. The impact to our self-esteem, the impact on our sleep, the impact on our appetite sometimes, the anxiety we experience when we have future interactions

with that person. There's a lot of things that happen when we don't speak up that we kind of gloss over because we don't want to miss lunch. Wow. Yeah. So, so I understand that, oh, this person is going to behave this certain way. And, and I get that that's really tough to allow them to have that reaction because some people aren't mature enough to hear anything negative about themselves. Yeah. They can't believe, you know, a lot of defensiveness is like, I am not a bad person. I am not a bad person. You're not about to tell me that I said something mean to you. And it's like, well, you did in fact, say something mean to me. That's exactly what I'm saying. And you're still a really good person and you make great pie, but you also say mean stuff sometimes. And you did it yesterday. So,

stuff sometimes and you did it yesterday. So, you know, I think we can't not say things because of how they'll respond, what typically happens in relationships is people cool down. And we have to maybe, we have to call somebody else to go to lunch with on that particular day. We will have to miss lunch with them because we know how they'll respond or will have to endure the silent treatment for two days or whatever it is. But what they're doing in their behavior towards you is really manipulating you to not say anything to them. You know, people are teaching you not to say anything to them with those sort of behaviors. Like you cannot tell me about how I treat you because if you do This is what I'm gonna do to you. So guess what if it works you will never be able to say anything to them

So you have to decide do I want to be in a relationship with someone I can't talk to or will I you know advocate for myself and say hey look I understand you have your process, but I will still say this. Okay, so I should have known that this was probably going to be like someone of a therapy session, because that's what you do to us all day, any day. I'm going to throw myself on the altar, you know, because I'm definitely one of those people. I feel like I've grown a lot, but I do feel like I'm one of those people who's struggled with like anytime someone says something bad about me now, I think you're saying I'm a bad person.

I don't know that I would necessarily verbalize that to them, but I think I would internalize any level of criticism as you telling me like I'm not a good person, or I have failed, things rooted in a lot of, like, childhood things. And so I think, how do we become the type of people who can separate from this idea of being perfect, or like acting in a way that never offends, or not being accountable for the moments where we did say something mean,

or we did say something immature, and hear that feedback without responding, well, I don't know if we can respond without being defensive, but how do we open up in such a way? We talk about having tough conversations like we're the ones communicating with someone else, but how do we receive tough criticism,

tough feedback about ourselves without it damaging our self-esteem or making us feel like well, I just quit all together. You know, you have to put yourself in more uncomfortable positions. You have to allow yourself to make mistakes. You have to try new things that you're not good at. You have to open yourself up to receive feedback. You know, there are a few times a year while text a few friends and say, girl, what do I need to work on? Like, my husband does that. What is your own music? I can't imagine it.

But okay, I'm gonna do better. I do my homework, so I'm gonna do whatever you tell me to do. But that just feels like, ain't, keep it to yourself. Yeah, you know, I asked a friend that recently and she said, you know, I think you leave relationships, but I've seen you stay for too long. I said, wow. Really? Because I guess she, you know, she's hearing for years of complaining. She's probably like, like, girls, eight years. You won't dump that free yet. So, you know, I think sometimes, you know, adults, we don't necessarily

put ourselves in uncomfortable situations. We feel really great doing the things we're good at. situations, we feel really great doing the things we're good at. And the opportunity to try something new is like the scariest thing ever. You know, like to try skiing if you've never been, to try a new recipe. We are creatures of habit because we're good at stuff. And so there is some benefit to learning something new and not being good at stuff. And so there is some benefit to learning something new and not being good at it. There is some benefit to playing a game and not being great at that, to having some conversations with people where you are seen as an imperfect figure and not this creature of perfection. You know, perfection really does not exist.

And I think, you know, we hear it all the time. No one's perfect. But many of us don't believe it. And we're still like trying to get there. There is a perfect party. There is a perfect this. And it's like, you know, stuff is pretty good. You know, I see that sometimes on the internet.

I create content. I'll have a typo. And the perfectionist, who know, stuff is pretty good. You know, I see that sometimes on the internet, I create content, I have a typo and the perfectionist, who they will come after you. Should this come and be there? I'm like, girl, I'm gonna let it ride. People like, they didn't even care about the girl. It's out there. The world got it. I'm corrected on the, if I put it back up.

You know, like, I'm not trying to, I want people to see a mistake that you can create stuff and there be a mistake in it. I've read people's books. I'm in New York Times best seller and I'll see a mistake in a book. And I'm like, yes. It's like, yes, it's not perfect.

We have to celebrate imperfections. We have to allow people to have imperfections because when we allow others to have imperfections because when we allow others to have them, we are open in the grace for ourselves. But we're so easy to be like, girl, it's something right there on you or girl, why yo shoes, you know, like all this stuff, we want everything to be like perfect and it's like, you know, let people have their things that are not 100% you don't have to go on people houses and fix their painting and, you know, all this stuff.

And maybe that will give you some freedom to allow yourself to have those same sort of imperfections. All right. That's good. You just preached a word. I just want you to know you just got me together and I thank you. And I will send you a rate or something for that session we just had. I wonder, what does it feel like to be you?

I've found you on social media. I'm sure a lot of people did. And I mean, your work, your passion continues to touch and transform the lives of so many people. And I know when people meet you, they think that things have always been the lives of so many people. And I know when people meet you, they think that things have always been the way that they've been.

But do you feel the sense of popularity, influence that you have? What has this journey been like for you to go from? Wherever you start it, maybe you can tell us a little bit about your story and how you've ended up becoming like everyone's therapist. Well, I am a little girl from the east side of Detroit and I did not grow up wanting to be a therapist,

but I definitely grew up around a lot of people who needed therapy. Amen. So I've always enjoyed conversations and really questioning people like I remember being like, but why did they do that? And why did they do that? And why do you do that?

And you know, having all of these, you know, really deep conversations, I would, you know, cut class to sit with my friends and talk. You know, so I've always really loved deep meaningful conversation. And once I became a therapy therapist, I really felt like oh my gosh, like people have so much to say and they don't really have a lot of folks who listen to them in this way. The things that we talk about often in therapy, they're not always like these

traumas. Sometimes it is this person at my job to so loud that I want to move my cubicle, you know, but how freeing is it to be able to talk about that with someone because who else might want to listen to that? I do for an hour. I'd love to hear about, you know, what you're watching on TV or, you know, the date you have with this new person or, you know, just all these things. It's like, wow, we're so interesting. So I really love that about, you know, being a therapist.

And I think that we all need to be heard. And so much of my content is really, you know, what I think when I'm sitting with people and listening to them, I'm like, oh, you know what? Here are five things you could say to a person who's being passive aggressive. You know, I may not always say that to the client, but I'm thinking about it like, huh, how do we address somebody being passive aggressive

with us? Because, you know, we all experience it and there's so much humaneness in listening to people share of, you know, of just different backgrounds because sometimes we think, all what I feel is so unique. I am the only person who gets annoyed. I am the only person who has this sibling issue. I am the only person who's, you know, misguided about what my purpose is in life. And so having someone to normalize that to talk you through the difficult moments in life, it is absolutely beautiful.

You asked about Instagram and I talked about being a therapist, but I don't think that's your heart. Yeah, Instagram is fun most of the time because't think that's your heart. Yeah, Instagram is, it's fun most of the time, because I think that therapists, up until now, they have been, I don't know, like we didn't know a lot about them. We didn't know that therapists have aphoros and bright lipstick and speaking a regular dialect and have personality and those sorts of things, you know.

The therapist that I knew about were, you know, those type of therapists and not, you know, not what we're able to see now. And so being able to share therapeutic tools and take away with people who may never go to therapy. You know, may never go to therapy. Are those who go to therapy some or those who are really into it is really rewarding? You know, it deepens the work because a therapist can only see so many clients, but with Instagram, I'm able to facilitate change in a bigger way. And that feels really impactful. It feels better than driving an electric car. You know, it feels like I'm making a mark.

Yeah, I don't know. I'm still untangling that. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I get that. Because I'm like, when did you or have you realized how massive this imprint is? I mean, you're a two times New York, two times New York Times best seller.

And like, does this East Side Girl from Detroit recognize this huge impact that she's gonna make on the world and continue to make. I mean, it's one thing to do at once, but like soon as drama-free here, I was like, we running that thing going back because I just continue to see how many people were continuing to connect to the message.

And I just wonder, I feel like from viewing your social media, you seem to be obviously very private about your own life and your own story and journey, but I just wonder, like I wonder if she realizes just how big and impactful this is. Especially to see a black woman with your afro, your braids, however you got your hair from day to day. And then talking about things that like in our community,

we aren't usually talking about. And like how do we have drama-free existence in our families where we're used to sweeping things under the rug or not talking about them at all, or even going no contact with family systems that are dysfunctional, but everyone stays in it. Like you're giving us so much permission and so much liberty just by being you and giving

us language. And I just see it everywhere. You know, I love the possibility that we can all live freely. And we can be free. I think when we get the opportunity to create our lives, and so many of us are still in bondage because we are burdened by old expectations, we're burdened by childhood experiences, you know, beliefs that don't really fit who we are. And it's really unfortunate, you know, sometimes I'll have clients where they're really trying to live this belief that they aren't actually living. Like I should want kids, but you like to travel so much, you don't really like kids.

You don't. You can change your mind. And they're like, oh my gosh, no one has ever seen that to me. Well, your mother who wants grandchildren may not say that to you. Your father who wants grandchildren, all these other people who are just out here having kids, they may not say that to you,

but what I'm hearing is you want something different, and that's okay. Yeah. You have the freedom to do that. And I'm a mother. And I'm saying you have the freedom to choose your life. But what a beautiful thing to be able to say, this is what I want to do.

And I understand how I was raised, but I'm choosing my own path. Okay, so I have to ask you, what woman has been the most influential for you in your journey of being free? I think as mother Oprah. Yeah. You know, I was a kid who watched Oprah after school.

4 o'clock. And I watched, listen, I watched all the other, the Mory and the- There's Ricky Lincoln, Judy Jones too. Yeah, I watched all that too, but I watched Oprah and the thing she talked about on her show, like I listened to her podcast, which is old episodes at an Oprah show

and she's talking about this stuff that was so revolutionary at the time, emotional neglect and alcoholic parents and molestation. And it's like, wow, what is this stuff? And to see, you know, a person who has such a traumatic story, be able to build a life that is so different than where she came from, was so inspiring. It's like no matter how you grow up, there could be an opportunity for you. There could be an opportunity outside of this neighborhood, outside of these people, outside of these relationships, but you have

to be open and willing to create it and also upset some folks. Because as you know, as you change, there are some people and it's, you know, it's really a grieving process. There are some people who are not coming with you because they can't. They are not on the same path. And so to be able to see someone sort of do that at a very massive scale, that was amazing. But you know, outside of Oprah, I learned a lot of what to do by watching what not to do. I am the youngest grandchild, so I have tons of older cousins and just watching their

life experiences, watching my aunts and uncles and parents. I'm like, okay, do we know that? I didn't know how to get away from it, but I also knew this is something I don't want. There has to be a book, chapter in the encyclopedia, something that will help me figure this thing out. And I think that it happened, you know, just by curiosity, just by knowing you don't have to settle into a life that doesn't feel good for you. Okay, so my last question before we close the podcast, and this is something I've been asking everyone who's the most influential woman who's played a role in your journey, but also like, what do you hope that she knows about the impact that she's had on your life and who you are today as a result of her yes. Oh my gosh.

So, 20, what was the pandemic? 2020, I'm losing my years when I mentioned pandemic. 2020, Oprah came to Charlotte, which is where I live now, And she came on stage and said, look at all my kids. And I started crying. I'm like, it's me, I'm the kid. I'm like, I'm the baby.

Because, you know, what a beautiful way to mother without having any children of your own. You know, like, to be able to pour into people in that way. And I think, you know, she mothered us. Wow. And for women who don't want kids, I think about, you know, I was just thinking about this for Mother's Day, which is, you know, coming up soon. I want to do something with my friends who are mothers,

with children and mothers without children, because I think there is something about being a woman that is just naturally mothering. There is something about us that's gonna help a little baby out. We gonna take care of our friends. We are going to take care of our partners, we will nurture, there is something in us to care. And so I feel like she had that in her to care

in a very big and massive way. Wow. That's so good, because you're right, there are so many people, I mean, who are like, that is definitely, she was auntie Oprah before calling people auntie was like a thing. And mother to so many people. I mean, who are like, that is definitely, she was auntie Oprah before calling people auntie was like a thing. And mother to so many.

Well, thank you for your time. Thank you for your patience today. You, like I said, over and over again, I cannot just explain enough how much your work continues to impact my life. It impacts the way that I show up in my relationships with my children for myself, with my partners, and even for the people who I get to do this work with. And so I just thank you that you constantly pour your constantly putting things out into

the earth, and we're constantly covering you and just hoping that all of the good things that you put in the earth are showing up in your life in the most intentional and private and personal ways because you certainly deserve it for all you've shown. Thank you so much for that. You're welcome. Thank you. Take care. You too.

Bye. Bye. NEDRA, I am so grateful for this opportunity to speak with you. Your soul is so pure and intentional. I think the favorite part of this interview for me has been listening to your life, that freedom in your life, the joy that you spread while also sharing such truth has given me so much hope for what's possible when we live our lives free. I can't thank you enough for joining me on the podcast.

You really bridge the gap and walked us through the reality of hard conversations. If you are listening, you enjoy this podcast, make sure that you drop us a comment and let us know your favorite part. We're gonna be back next week with more hope for being open. So make sure that you tag a friend, subscribe, rate, and sit in

the same spot because we're going to keep it coming. If you are interested in joining the podcast, you have a story to share, you have a question, you even want to get in on some of these conversations. Send us an email at podcast at waman evolved.com. We cannot wait to hear what's on your heart and how you are changing. Until then, I will see you next week. Stay open. Stay evolving. Let's go. you