Woman Evolve with Sarah Jakes Roberts - Living in Plain Sight

Episode Date: February 18, 2026

Kanisha Anthony speaks candidly with Sarah Jakes Roberts about what it means to move through the world in a body that tells a story before she ever opens her mouth. Far more than a burn survivor, Kanisha is a wife, mother, model, author, and content creator. A woman whose identity is expansive, not defined by tragedy but beautifully transformed because of it. Through storytelling, Kanisha chronicles her family's journey of uncensored healing and intentional joy, inviting listeners into a testimony of resilience lived out in real time. Interested in going rogue and reclaiming life on your own terms? Well then, listen in and let her love for life lift you higher!

As long as you struggle to believe that someone could love you in your current form, you will never have the love that you deserve because the love that you attract will be a reflection of your disbelief that you are worthy of, the kind of love that you long for. You are you, and that's what makes you beautiful. It's the stories that have gone on with your life that you've carried since birth that makes you who you are and that makes you special. You are listening to the Woman Evolve podcast. We are fresh off the heels of what I hope was a nice Valentine's Day weekend for you. And let's qualify this because oftentimes when we think about Valentine's Day being nice,

we're thinking to ourselves, yeah, but I didn't have no boo thing. But sometimes a nice Valentine's Day isn't necessarily about us experiencing romantic love. But first of all, acknowledging the love that we have all around us and the many forms in which it shows up. this Valentine's Day was a little bit different for us. We had a Make It Last marriage weekend at our church. Well, first of all, let me say this. We were dog tired on Friday night. And so Friday night, we, I think, ordered sushi at home and pretty much went to bed.

Then Saturday morning, we got up, went to the church. It was pouring raining here in Dallas. We had a Make It Last Conversation. Oh, can I tell y'all something? Okay, so we had to make it last conversation. One of the things, well, it's Make It Last Marriage. weekend. So there's an event on Friday night, a prom or that is 70s, 80s night. And then Saturday is just marriage enrichment for couples who have been married, engaged, thinking about getting married.

And so we did a joint session with ourselves, David and Tamela Mann, who are going on a relationship tour. They have, you know, from the outside looking in what looks like an amazing marriage, a blended family. And so we had a conversation with them and two of the pastors from our church, Pastor Don and Lady Fager Johnson. So we had that marriage conversation. And then we split the groups, right? And so there's men and women in separate groups. And we have a panel of wives who speak to the men and a panel of husbands who speak to the wives. And what I like about this is that sometimes there are things that you want to ask in your relationship or your partnership, but there are sensitivities. You don't know how to bring it up. And so having the separation is kind of

like the things that you want to ask that you're trying to figure, how do I ask, or what's normal, what's not normal? And so that was really a highlight. And so I brought that up because I watched a documentary for school and it was called The Mask You Live in. And it's about masculinity and the way that it has been socialized towards men and the impact that it has on their ability to be vulnerable and authentic if it doesn't align with what traditional masculinity proposes.

And so I watched this documentary and if you want to watch it, it's really, really good. Right now, the only way that you can watch it is on Canopy. It's spelled K-A-N-O-P-Y and it was really eye-opening for me. And so I suggested that the men watched that video because it just helped me understand so much about my son, my husband, my father, some exes that I just was like, you know, I don't know what's wrong with y'all. It helped me to be more compassionate towards them. Can it be as an app that you can get if you're in school and have a EDU email,

but also if you have a library card, when I tell you the documentary is worth going out of your way to get a library card, to sign up, to have access. I had to watch two documentaries over the weekend about just the socialization of gender. And so it was really, really good. But my husband shared in his panel, he didn't tell me to afterwards that the way that it impacts me

because I really felt compassion for men in a way that I don't be feeling, you know. Now that I don't, I honor, I honor men and I recognize that men have had difficult paths and challenges, but I feel like this brought it home even more. I think for my journey as a woman that oftentimes we see, you know, systems that have been set up to support the advancement or domination as men. and my desire to see women be fully empowered has often made me feel like men were superior societally and as a result maybe didn't have any damaging implications about what it means to be male in a culture that they benefit from.

And I think there was something about watching the documentary that made me feel like, man, everyone's got their own struggle in their own way. And honestly, because, okay, no one cares, but just go with me. Because men have been socialized towards violence when we look at it. at the violence that happens in the world, oftentimes at the hands of men. It's no coincidence that the only emotion that they're allowed to show is aggression. And because of that aggressive behavior, when they are feeling things like fear or disappointment or regret or envy, that the only way they're able to channel it, I won't say the only way, because that's dangerous language.

I won't say the only way. But in many instances, the emotion that they feel most comfortable showing is aggression. And as a result, sometimes, times there are violent behaviors that come with that. So super, super good. My husband, I was feeling compassionate. I'm looking at my husband. He came on Friday night after recording. I'm like, oh. And I got on his nerves. And I didn't learn that until after the make it last thing in which he told the panel that like, you know, vulnerability is hard for men. And so, you know, you got to ease them into it. And so that was a little lesson for me. You know what I hate? I'm going to be honest with you. I'm going to keep it a buck.

I'm going to keep it a thousand. You know what I hate. It's like constantly learning. Like, yes, I went back to school to learn. But I have had to embrace over and over again that, especially in my marriage, that the moments that you offend, hurt, and this is good. The more I'm talking to you guys about it, offend, hurt, or just cause any kind of friction. and our relationship doesn't mean that you're no longer worthy of love and it doesn't mean that that person's going to abandon you or reject you.

And I know that there are some things in my wiring that has made me believe that to make a mistake, to disappoint, to upset is to sacrifice your right to be loved. And that is so misaligned with one, the foundation of love, which is our relationship with God. And it is unfortunately not the experience that many of us. have in our families, homes and communities. And then that translates into romantic relationships where we may end up like I have living with this type of anxiety or nerves or need to come off as perfect. So last week when I was talking to PT, I was talking about line and manipulating.

Like that was part of it for me. It's like I have to show up as perfect. I can't, you know, make any mistakes. And so I'm trying to like cover mistakes. I'm trying to pretend that I'm not struggling when I am. I'm trying to make sure that I always look like I have it together. and as a result of that, it took me a long time for us to just come to a place of honesty where I'm like, I'm struggling. I don't have it together. I need your help. That hurt my feelings. And the process of being able to do that really helped our marriage to grow and deepen its roots. And so that is something that I highly suggest many people just watch the documentary, but also understand that love is a journey, loving yourself as a journey, and learning.

and learning how to love others is a journey. And when you recognize that you have made a mistake that you have failed in some capacity, to not allow that to disqualify you from experiencing love, but instead allow it to be a reminder to you of how beautiful it is that two imperfect people come together and try their best to love each other with this perfect love that can only come from above.

So sometimes we've got to ask God to refill our love tank. All right. So you've never minded my business that much in your life. It seems only fair that I should have the opportunity to mind yours. This week we're doing something a little bit different. We had a few people call in, but there was a question that came across our Desa via email that I wanted to take the time to answer. It is from someone in North Carolina. And she says that she has been abstinent for two years, although I have a three-year-old daughter.

In my times of singleness, I have grown closer to the Lord and now learning to walk gracefully in the anointing over my life. But I struggle with believing that someone could love me right now. I feel I would have to complete my degree and obtain status before finding love. After escaping domestic violence, I recognize that I put my worth in productivity instead of who I am. This is so aligned with what I just finished saying because when we feel like we need to perform for love and we look at our lives and our lives and our our lives, they don't feel adequate enough. It feels like we need to add more to it in order to be worthy of love. We end up feeling like I need to reach a certain space, a certain level in order for me to be lovable. But guess what? Once you get to that certain status, you're going to find some

way to keep pushing the ball forward because at our core, we believe that our loveability is directly connected to our success and our productivity. And so when you're constantly asking yourself, what have I done today to feel worthy of love or what can I do to feel more worthy of love? You always push the ball backwards. You push the ball forward. So push the goal post back. And this is how you know she didn't play sports. Whatever, stay focused. So this is what I'm going to say to you, okay? You said something in here and, you know, we've been going rogue. So I'm going to say something to you that's going to sound crazy. You're going to think I'm off, but just listen to me. You said that I struggle with you. I struggle with, believing that someone could love me right now. As long as you struggle to believe that someone could

love you in your current form, you will never have the love that you deserve because the love that you attract or allow in your life will be a reflection of your disbelief that you are worthy of the kind of love that you long for. Here's the reality. You can have a type of love in your life right now in your current state. However, that type of love will be the type of love that requires you to constantly perform, that requires you to constantly do for them, that will have a reflection of a similar type of brokenness that impacts your relationship. When you get to a place where you are able to say, I am not perfect, I have so much growth to do. But loving me and my growth and my need for growth are two separate things. My ability to be loved in my current state is directly related to

my belief that I am lovable. If you do not believe that you are lovable, the type of love that you receive will end up hurting you. I want to say that good. And I want to make sure, as always, I'm not talking in broad strokes, but as long as you feel like you are not lovable, then you won't even believe true love if it knocks on your door. You will, won't believe it. Oh my goodness. I won't say that you want to track the kind of love that you're worthy of, but I will say you will find it difficult to believe that that love will stay and that that love will really honor you no matter what state you're in. And you'll find yourself like me in the early stages of my marriage, trying to make sure that I didn't give this person

any reason to walk away from me. And I feel like that is part of what an incredible good person who has been anointed by God to love you will walk you through those seasons where you feel lovable and not worthy of love and challenge that paradigm. But it's really not someone else's job to convince you that you're lovable. It's really not someone else's job to convince you that you're lovable. You have to come to a place where you believe intrinsically within yourself that you are lovable. And when I realized that I was pushing love away by not believing that love could stay. It made me begin to question what I think love is anyway and why I feel like I need to perform in order to receive it. And so I want to offer you that perspective because as long as

you're pushing that goalposts back, like getting the degree isn't going to make you any more lovable. Getting the house isn't going to make you any more lovable. You experience domestic violence and domestic violence beyond the physical scars that it leaves behind. There are emotional scars. sometimes that we carry into domestic violence situations and certainly ones that we carry out of it. And so to begin to ask yourself, what are some of the scars that exist on my heart? What are some of the definitions of love that I have accepted that don't align with who God is? Scripture says that God is love. What does that mean when it says that God is love?

So I search scripture looking for all of the ways that God has shown his love and expressed his love. Oh, there's a, I have to, I don't have my Bible sitting right here. Okay, I'm going to look it up for you all, but there's a scripture in, I want to say it's in Hosea. Let me look it up. And my Bible, I have it highlighted. So in Hosea 11, chapter 8, you know, part of the reason I know that God is love, and what that means is that God's love towards us has nothing to do with our performance.

It's because he falls in love with this. people group. So when you read the, if you choose to open your Bible and read the Old Testament, I need you to understand that he's like, I am going to create a nation, a people who are my own, I will be their God, they will be my people. And he starts that relationship through a man named Abraham. He says, Abraham, I'm going to make you the father of many nations and all the nations are going to be blessed with you. So starting in Genesis 12, we see how God begins with a man and then a man's son and then that man's children and how it turns into a nation. And so he gives this nation these very specific laws. This is what it means to be my people. Here are the boundaries. Do not cross

these boundaries and we will be able to maintain relationship with one another. I'll bless you. I'll bless everywhere you tread. Do these fools? Do we fools? Do we fool do these fools? You understand what I'm saying? Do we adhere? No. Heaven's no. Ain't nothing like a little disobedience ain't nothing like a little rebellion. And so they don't listen over and over again throughout scripture. We see these modes where they don't listen. And when I say they, I'm saying we because I am not casting getting stones around here because my disobedience capacity has been very, very large. It's shrinking. It's shrinking. I have less capacity for disobedience. She ain't perfect. Less capacity. Stay focused. Here's the thing. Over and over again, though, he comes back to these people because he loves them.

And loving them is not based on their performance. It's based on who he is. I love. love you because of who I am. I love you because of what I see in you. I knew that you were going to do all of those things and I still love you. Love has consequences. But just because love has consequences doesn't mean that you no longer get to experience love because love also has restoration. And so there's a scripture in Jose 11 in there in one of those seasons where, you know, he's like, y'all, one thing y'all going to do is cut up. One thing about y'all, y'all is y'all going to get on my nerves. And he goes, how can I give up on you, Ephraim? How can I hand you over Israel?

How can I make you like Adma? How can I set you like Zeboing? So he's saying like, how can I, like, you keep on, you keep on backsliding from me, okay? You're called to me, but none of you are following me. And yet I can't give up on you. And yet I can't just hand you over. Then it goes on and says,

my heart churns within me. My sympathy is stirred. And so reading this scripture, I read it a few weeks ago, and it really blessed me because it just reminded me that even in the midst of the Lord having to execute consequences against his people, because he said, hey, if you do this, you're going to get trapped here. And part of the reason why we need those consequences is because sometimes you need to know how good you had it. Sometimes you need to realize what it feels like to be covered by being uncovered. And yet the Lord doesn't delight in those moments. My heart turns within me. My sympathy is stirred. He goes and say, I'm not going to execute the fierceness of my anger.

I'm not going to, again, destroy you because I'm God and not man. I am so holy. And I won't come with terror because eventually they're going to walk after the Lord. So he knows that as much as you have the capacity for disobedience, that you also have the capacity for obedience. So what does this mean for us is we're seeking to define love in a way that it's healthy? It's the one recognized that love seeks to not abuse. those who it is in relationship with.

The Lord didn't want to just execute judgment on his people because he loved them. He wanted them to act right. He wanted them to have consequences and they did experience consequences, but he didn't delight in it. It wasn't something that he wanted to do because you don't abuse power when you love someone. And so the Lord only executed that, which was righteously appropriate based off of their behavior. Love doesn't abuse power. love does not seek performance, just honesty. There were so many moments where the people in Israel just had to admit like, hey, we got lost,

hey, we messed up. They had to humble themselves and turn from their wicked ways. I'm not going to do that again and turn towards God. So love was not about performance. It was about honesty, authenticity, not perfection. And so you need a new definition of love. I feel like this was extremely long, but hopefully it was helpful. I cannot wait to get into this week's episode.

it was my computer broke literally seconds before I hopped online and so I was a little bit frazzled but I love talking to people about their stories everyone has a unique story and yet even in a unique story we see this common thread of human frail team of the need to determine what strength looks like after we have had certain challenges and what I love so much about the story that you're going to hear today from Kenesha anthony is one of a powerful journey of resilience and self-acceptance. She survived a tragic house fire that claimed the lives of her brothers, and she discusses the challenges of parenting even as a burned survivor. She has an infectious spirit, beautiful from the inside out. I also recognize because I get to share my story.

Sometimes I wanted to ask her, does she ever get tired of sharing her story? One of the things that I was most moved by in this conversation is that her children are growing up with the evidence of their mom's house fire right in front of them because they can see her scars. And I felt like it was a powerful analogy about parenting that many of us don't necessarily always subscribe to, which is allowing our children to see our scars. Now, I know her physical scars and maybe emotional scars, may not be as transparent and evident towards her children, but I do think there's something to be said about what it means to live a life where our scars

are something that we have to become so comfortable with that we are able to get to a place where we're able to share and to talk and to help others become more empathetic as a result of what we've gone through. Kanisha is an influencer. She emphasizes the significance of faith and navigating life's ups and downs and encourages others to embrace their scars. I enjoyed this conversation so, so much.

She is a beautiful soul who lives in Dayton and Cincinnati, and I believe that you're going to be tremendously blessed by this conversation. So let's get into it. Our theme for the year is going rogue, and I saw one of your videos on Instagram and sent it to the team and just felt like you had such, a beautiful and compelling story. And then I've kind of done my own deep dive and was just revisiting things on your YouTube as well.

But I have a question to ask you that, I don't know, I'm curious before we dive into some of the questions that we have prepared because I started sharing my story kind of early on on social media and through my blog. And I'm just wondering, do you ever get tired of telling your story? Oh, all the time. I get tired of it, but it doesn't take away. me want to actually share it.

You know what I mean? It's like, should I keep sharing the same thing over and over again? But I see what it does for other people, so I'm going to share it until I can't share it no more. That's how I feel, too, it's just kind of like every now and then. I think a lot of people have heard, like, maybe my messages or books, and so sometimes people don't know my story. But, you know, it feels like, it's, to me, it's like one of the least interesting things

about me now. It was the thing that I thought would define me for forever. And then the more that I accepted it and embraced it, I felt like there were so many other amazing things about me that that was just the beginning. Do you feel that way? Oh, absolutely. All the time, I'm like, you know, a lot of people know me as Kanisha the burn survivor, but I could do some pretty dope things. And I'm like, I don't know how to show the world that because I feel like this is my story. this is what I need to keep pouring out right now, you know? Well, I want to hear about them. I want to hear about some of those dope things that we don't get to know about.

Yeah, of course. Like, so I love building stuff. I help with Habitat of Humanity, and I've learned to build stuff through them, where at home I'm, like, building all kind of stuff. Like, girl, my husband will come home, and my carpet is ripped up, and I have put down. on the floor.

I love using my hands to do anything creative. And I love traveling and basically just doing anything with my family. Like I really enjoy doing. But yeah, I mean, there's so many other tiny things that we could all, you know, talk about for days. But that's the majority of what I enjoy doing. I saw you just posted a travel vlog. So I'm wondering what's like one of the most fascinating places or most

exciting places you've visited so far? You know what? They're all pretty exciting, but what we're trying to do with our kids right now is let them get to each state. So we're trying to travel to every state in the U.S. And then we're going to start going out of the country. But anytime we travel, as long as we road trip in, like I enjoy every part of it. Oh, that's great.

Road, okay, so what's like the longest road trip? So in July we did a two-week road trip And visited about How many states? I think eight states maybe How many kids do you have? And how old are that yet? Because I'm like two weeks

Baby, I had a two-person limit in my head Four kids Yes, yep, all six of us And sometimes the dog, you know Like, we just hop up in the... Oh, Janice. It's great. It's chaotic, but it's really great.

I don't know. We enjoy seeing the roads and everything while we're driving. So it's not everybody's cup of tea, but I really enjoy road trip. What I love about is your family is going to have great memories. So I come from a big family. I have four siblings. And then, of course, my parents. And my husband was an only child.

And so I love traveling with all the kids. It's a mess. Like, luggage is left. Somebody got to go to the bathroom. Somebody's sick. Somebody got on someone's nervous. But to me, like, those are some of my favorite memories from childhood are like those moments where we were all together experiencing adventure.

So it's amazing. I can imagine the chaos, but the memories of it, it makes you sign up for it again and again. Yeah. I mean, by the end of it, you're like, why did I do this? But we're going to do it again and again, you know. I'm curious, how has your story and your experiences informed the way that you parent? So I feel like in so many different ways

because my kids get to see me the way that I am, they were born into seeing my scars and everything. So we talk about how we look at people all the time. Like we're not going to side-eye somebody because they look different. And so my husband, and I, since we're both burned survivors, we're really big on teaching our kids on, you know,

how to ask someone a question or don't just stare at them. Don't ever just stare at somebody. But we make that a daily thing and we homeschool. So we teach them that while we're homeschooling throughout the days as well. You know what you said that I think is really powerful that most people don't have the advantage. I would say that you would have

and that you said your children were born seeing your scars and I feel like some of the most challenging obstacles of parenting is as coming to this place of vulnerability where we aren't just seen as authority figures but we're sharing our stories with

our children and it feels powerful to be in a position where you are able to teach them from an early age about your human experience and I can imagine maybe how you navigated that emotionally and some of the things that you had to go through. And then for them to feel free enough to ask those questions, it challenges me as a parent. I share my teen pregnancy story, but I just wonder what other scars were my children born into that maybe they can't see that they could be benefited from learning from because it changes the way they see the world.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I agree with that 1,000% And, you know, kids are very Kids are curious, you know And as we teach our kids and show them different things I feel like sometimes the other kids can see that And they'll start, you know, doing as they do That's so good.

So, okay, so for anyone listening, can you share with us your story? Yeah, absolutely. So I was in a house fire when I was four years old. Our house burned down on Thanksgiving night. And in that house fire, I was like, they got me out of the window. And they had to resuscitate me for about seven minutes before my heart came back. And during that, I lost two of my brothers in that house fire.

And I think that was the hardest part for everyone. because that night changed my whole family's life, you know. And so I got burned on over 60% of my body. I lost my fingers and, you know, I lost all of my hair. And I had to learn how to do all the things all over again. So I was in the hospital and in rehab for about a year, just learning to do those things. and as a four-year-old turning five, you know,

getting back into a diaper and trying to learn how to walk again. It was difficult. But I think the biggest thing I had during that was like, I looked in the mirror and I was like, where is my hair? Like, where is my hair? That was the first thing I noticed. And I think growing up, that was the biggest just thing I had. was like, I'm going to live my life looking totally different from each, from other people.

But I've learned how to take that and bring joy to people. So, listen, I didn't, I didn't got further than I wanted to in my story. No. I met my husband at a burn camp. He is a burn survivor as well. And now we have four beautiful children. They said I was not supposed to be able to have kids at all. Wow.

They said you're, they told my mom and my grandparents that this girl's going to be in a vegetable state for the rest of her life. Like she's not going to be able to do anything. And I remember telling my grandmother, as soon as I woke up, I didn't see like, I didn't, all I saw was angel wings. And I told her, Grandma, I saw these angel wings. And all I heard was a voice and was like, I had to take your brothers, but I have something special waiting for you at home. And that by itself has kept me through all of these years. of just living, just knowing that I do have purpose on here, just like everybody else, you know. But I have purpose on this earth and it's going to keep me living and encouraging other people as well.

I have 18,000 questions based off of that story. I don't even know where to begin. Okay, I love that you brought up the part about your hair because I was watching your very, at least it's the very first YouTube video that was on your page. I think it's 11 years ago. and it was the 21st anniversary and it was your first time ever taking your wig off and just saying kind of

this is who I am. Can you tell me a little bit about what that moment meant to you? Oh girl, I was so nervous doing that video. I was so nervous because my family gets to see me like this all the time but that was the moment. I was like, you know what, forget this.

The rest of the world can see what everybody else sees and it's just fine. But making that video, I think, changed everything. Because after that is when I decided that I was enough to share my story and be exactly who I am. That was the moment that that happened. Oh, goodness. Okay, so can you tell me, and I'm asking you this not to be invasive, but to give language to what keeps other people from telling their story before that moment,

what were some of the maybe negative thoughts or voices that kept you from stepping into that moment? Oh, just growing up, like, you know, I started school with wearing hats without wearing wigs, and people, the kids would snatch the hats off and make fun of me. And so I grew up, like, just thinking as a, child, no, that's not acceptable. You're too different. You can't do that. You have to hide it.

So all those years of being bullied and getting my wig snatched up. I never wanted to be that person to just be like, oh, here I am. You know, like, because prior I was embarrassed. And it took that video to get me out of that, that embarrassed state for sure. There's something I've been wrestling with, even in my own personal relationship with God. And what you're saying is resonating with me. And I think it speaks to that is I do feel like, especially when we're younger, that there are things that we learn about how we can or cannot show up, that we just accept as truth. And if we never challenge that truth,

we accept an identity that requires us to pretend. And there comes this moment where you have to go rogue, where you have to say the things that I have accepted as truth, I realize are no longer true to who God says I am. It's not true to who I believe that I am. I believe that I'm beautiful. I believe that I have worth. And if I'm going to step into that belief, I'm going to have to literally resist those previous belief systems.

And I feel like the work of doing that feels, it feels harder than it actually is. I wonder if it was like that for you too. like the voices were loud, the fear was big, and then you kind of do it and like the world's still spinning. And like it wasn't as hard as I thought it was going to be. Oh yeah. Every time, every time do something big. It's never as hard as I thought it was going to be.

I just lost track of what I was about to say, sir. I'm so sorry. No, it's okay. What was the question you asked me? Can you repeat it? Was it as big as it was as hard as you thought it was going to be? to step into your freedom and your liberation, especially compared to maybe the thoughts that existed prior.

Oh, yeah. So it was much harder than I thought, but as soon as I did it, it felt like freedom. It felt, I felt so free. I was like, hey, girl, that wasn't that bad. Like, you did it. It's over. Now what?

Now what are you doing? Like, you were so scared from all those years, now that you release that, I still have moments of like, ah, you know, scared, but it's like, it's okay. We learn that it's okay to just be yourself, you know? I wonder, okay, so we talked about the hair thing.

I'm just because you brought up so many interesting points about your story and journey. If you don't mind, I'd like to talk a little bit about you losing your brothers at such an early age for is, to me, it would seem early enough to remember but still so young that you have to like hang on to those memories. So I can imagine, especially as a mother, and I'm sure you can too, you've got one baby who you're trying to nurse to health,

two babies that you have lost in the process, and you're still trying to reconcile it all for yourself. Can you talk a little bit about this idea of you survived, but then your brothers were lost? And were there any messages or thoughts that kind of stuck with you as it related to navigating surviving, survival and living again? Oh yeah, for sure. First of all, there was so much guilt when, you know, when people talk about survivor's guilt, that's really a thing. I have one brother that did survive and he, you know, he didn't get burned at all.

But I even felt guilty for being the sibling that everybody had to take care of. And then that brother wasn't given the attention. that he needed, you know, and losing my other two brothers, I would always just have moments like, you know, like, why didn't you just leave them here? Why didn't you just take me? Like, those thoughts went through my head for a very, very long time. And, I mean, sometimes they still pop up, but we, we have to remind ourselves that, you know, what in our head is true and what is not, you know? Yeah. That's so good. I forgot that you mentioned that you had a brother who survived as well.

So I can imagine that those dynamics were interesting. I think it speaks even more to how amazing it is that you were able to cultivate your confidence and your courage and to really stand up to it. Now you are a model, a business owner, and a woman who wears her scars with so much pride. Can you tell me? So we have that video from 11 years ago. you take your wig off and you're like, this is who I am. And then like, how do we go from there to like, it's giving Tyra Banks?

Like, it's giving, this is who I am. Like, what you, is it addictive? The more that you own yourself, do you just want to continue to own more and more pieces? How did you go from there to this? Absolutely. I think for myself, me showing up as I am, has helped so many other people walk into who they are that I can't stop doing that. I'm like, I'm getting the messages, like, all these messages, like, because of you,

I got out of bed this morning and I got dressed. Because you put this message out there, like, I'm brave enough to do this today. And so it's like a girl, like, you're helping so many people. God is using you to help these people. You can't stop. You got to keep going, you know? That's my thought with it all. Okay, so if, how many times have you been reached out to people who aren't necessarily

burned survivors? Because your story is one of those ones that isn't just for those who have survived, you know, going through fires. I can imagine that it's touching more people than that. Oh, all kind of people. And I mean, I'm looking at people's pages like, oh, baby you're beautiful like you you have a problem getting out of bed and doing this and so it's not just people with scars it's just people that are human you know we we all have this these things that we don't like about ourselves are that we're self-conscious about um and so it's people all over the world and there's people from africa like hey i just want to let you know because of you that i did this and because of you and i'm like what I'm still in shock of it all, really every day when I received those messages.

And not only are we inspiring people, but you found love, you go to this burn camp, and you find love. How did you know he was the one? Well, I did not know he was the one until later on. We met as young kids, and my husband, he had the biggest crush on me, and I was a very quiet girl, and he thought I was stuck up. So he's like, oh, she's not going to talk to me and all of this. But I ended up finding his number like on my nightstand one day, and I ended up calling him. And from that moment forward, we have not stopped talking.

Like, it was a phone call that just led to everything else. And with my husband being the man that he is, he was very self-conscious about his scars as well. You can't really even see them. People don't notice them. So we were able to help each other. Like, he lifts me up. I lift him up.

And it's a really dynamic duel between us. Do you think that you all have, I'm just wondering again, because you have the similarities and that you've both experienced burns. I am wondering what it feels like to be loved by someone who knows exactly. what it's like to have gone through what you've gone through. I mean, I know there's some differences in maybe where his burns are placed. But I think so in relationships and marriage, I was like communication. Communication is the hardest part in like trying to understand where the other person is coming from.

Not to say that you all don't have differences in other areas. I'm just wondering how having that one similarity or commonality has helped to build a foundation for the way that you engage with one another and the way that you have. have parented your family. Oh, yeah. So with us, with our scars, there's, we feel like there's a lot of times

when other people may not understand exactly what we're going through. And I could just go to my husband like, okay, after I take everything off, like, I'm tired and my scars are tight and they're itchy. And like, he knows exactly what I'm talking about.

You know, like, even living with, with scars and accepting them, however, you're still going to have days where you're just like, and so to have that person right next to me every single day and me next to him every single day holding hands like, it's okay, we got this, we got this, and we can tell our children that you know, as you grow older, there's going to be certain things about yourself that's going to be different that you're not going to like, but we're, we're, able to give them that example of why you keep going on, why you keep loving yourself.

Yeah, like, it's amazing, really. Can I ask you a question? Because you mentioned, like, I guess I would assume that because it happened so long ago that maybe, like, you've learned to live it, but you mentioned having those moments where, like, your scars feel tight. Like, what does it feel like to exist in your body and, like, what are some of the, I guess, residual experiences that you have as a result of those scars?

Yeah, so a lot of times I can't be outside for a long time or like as much as I would love to rock my baldhead like baldhead women do, I can't do that outside. Like I can't let the sun touch my scalp. I can't do that. So I'm living in freedom,

but I still have my things that you know, I can't do. Or there's times where I want to go jog and our exercise and my scars are itching so bad where I just, I can't continue on doing that. There's a lot of different things, even though there's years and years that have gone by, you got to learn your body as it grows, you know? I've had struggles with my pregnancy. with the last two pregnancies where my babies had to come early

because my skin had stretched too far and it was ripping and it couldn't handle the capacity of them anymore. So there's different things every single day that these scars still, you know, do something, you know? Like I still can't just live and not notice them, you know? Mm-hmm, yeah. Well, Bray Brown,

you're preaching to me a little bit, but I think it's too personal for me. So I don't know if I, you know what I mean, how you be trying to talk to somebody and then the person keep making it about them. I'm trying not to be that person, but you're speaking to me, okay?

But I listen to this podcast from Brunee Brown, and Brne Brown said that she thought that freedom was a world without discipline. And so she had fallen into this illusion that that's what it meant to be free. and now she recognizes that she is earning her freedom by having discipline. And what you said just reminded me of that is that in order for you to experience what freedom is for you, there are disciplines that need to be enacted. And that really resonated with me.

That's like the cerebral part of what resonated with me. But there is this, I can't deny like this emotional, spiritual comparison of just these moments where we think we're, so far removed from something that happened to us that it shouldn't impact us anymore, that it shouldn't affect us. And I think that surviving is not living in such a way that it doesn't affect us as much as it is as learning how to respond in the moments that it does. And that's what I'm, oh, absolutely. I agree with you 1,000 percent. Because, and you know, something you just said for the past few years I personally have been dealing with depression and anxiety

something that I never thought that I would experience and you know I don't know if you know the book The Body Takes the Count But it's like yeah The Body takes a score But our bodies remember this stuff You know so even if it was this many years ago It's still going to remember

So it's like you have to learn that you're still safe, you know, that you're okay. And that's a inner conversation that you're having with yourself almost daily. I don't know about you, but I do. I have that conversation with myself like, baby, you're safe, you're okay. It's all right. Like that's so long ago, but it's okay. So when those triggers come, it's more so of just learning to, to, not get rid of it,

but to teach yourself that you're okay in those moments. I totally relate. I think we, I was living in Los Angeles and then we moved back to Dallas and coming back to Dallas. You're talking about the bodykeeping score. There were all of these different things that came back. I think especially too,

because my daughter was a teenager. She was the same age I was when I got pregnant when we moved to Dallas. And then my youngest daughter was the same age I was when we moved to Dallas as a family the first time. And I was stepping into this role as a leader in the Potter House, Dallas that I had in my childhood, I think, connected to some of the trauma that we experienced and, like, my parents being gone and it's just not feeling connected.

And I can remember, like, walking into the church and already feeling rejected and already feeling, like, abandoned and afraid. Like, I'm a grown woman, you know what I mean? but I can still feel those little girl moments. And I think coaching ourselves and reminding ourselves of that safety is so critical so that we can experience the beauty of the present, right? And so that we can show up with joy in what is now. And I look at your life.

And though I know that we're still growing and changing and evolving, I can also recognize the beauty in it. And, you know, what those angel wings told you. as it related to you coming back here. Do you feel like I have to ask you this because you said that you were told that there was some good things here for you to do? Do you feel like you have found that thing

or do you feel like it has been a series of things? I feel like just living is the thing. I feel like living freely is the thing and teaching and showing people that they could do the same. And, you know, that seems like a small thing. I know a lot of times people are like, oh, I'm here to do this and this and this. But it's, for me, it's literally to just live. And I appreciate that I had finally recognized that in me because I used to be like, oh, I need to be here and I need to be here.

No, I don't need to be anywhere. I can do this. I can do this how I do this, you know? That felt like a warm blanket for me. I hope it feels like a warm blanket for those who are living. What if our greatest purpose was to really live was to just show up fully and what is available now and find joy in it and not be so hesitant or waiting for the pessimistic, waiting for the next shoe to drop that we miss out on the beauty of living? I have to believe, I don't know about you, but I mean, the world is getting crazy. You know, there are so many things to be worried about and concerned about.

But there's this part of me when I'm not holding my breath that is able to end. inhale the beauty of right now and recognize it right now. Everything's okay. You know what I mean? I don't know what's going to happen this evening, but right now it's okay. And I want to experience the peace that can come with okay and then joy that can come with okay. Yes, I 100% agree with that. Living in the moment, you know, like that's what we have to do if we're always worried about

what's going to happen next or tomorrow. We're going to be stressed out. Yeah. They're going to be stressed. Okay, so you have to tell me, they tell you you're going to be in a vegetable state for the rest of your life. You're definitely not having children. Mama's popping them things out. Can you tell me about the first time you saw that pregnancy test?

Like, what are we doing? What was the feeling? Well, first of all, I was 19. And I was nervous as all get out. because I didn't think that it would happen. And I was like, oh, what have I done? I'm going to miss up my body. I'm going to mess up this.

And I was just nervous. But I will tell you, when I had that baby, I was like, man, the love that a mother has for their child is just like, I don't know. It's an amazing feeling. These kids drive me crazy. And I'm just like, oh, my God, I love you so much. You know, you know how it is. It's just like, but it was, it was, it was amazing to know that I was still able to do that, you know, to bear children, even believing all those years that I wasn't. Because even the doctor's telling me I couldn't have kids, I was still believing other people like, you're never going to get married.

You're never going to have no kids. You look like this and you ugly, you know, like. And to have that. and to have someone that, like, really loved me for who I was and to have a kid with, like, it's special. It's special. I feel that. There's this idea when you've gone through anything that it took everything,

and then there's that moment if you keep on living, that you realize you didn't take everything, and what I have left is strong enough for me to ride the way for the rest of my life. Yeah, yeah, that's a good saying. Who's that part? I just pulled that one out. I like that.

Stress. Stress is pulled. I'm a poet. My computer is cracked. My phone is ringing. It's bringing out the best in me. Okay, so let me ask you this. So you're a mom.

You are a wife. You're a business woman. You're building this big, beautiful life, and you're inviting other people to be a part of the process. What does rest look look? like for you? I am so big on my rest these days. Like I used to think, oh man, I used to think I need to go, go, go. Like I need to do this to be this. And I'm like, when I am tired or if I feel overwhelmed or if I'm stressed and you know like social media, we got to post all the time. We got to do this. We got to do this.

And that's how you make your money. But honestly, there's days where I'm just like, yep, I'm going to going hiking or I'm going to do this because I need to, if my mind's not right, I'm not going to be doing things the correct way, you know? Yeah. So I'm really big on take a moment, whether it's leaving the kids with my husband for a second and taking a drive or anything, I think is important to rest. Okay, so that I want to talk to you a little bit about content creation, especially when you're sharing your life. First of all, I'd be trying to be a content creator.

They're not giving you all enough credit. They're not giving you all enough credit. You got to capture the content. First of all, you got to figure out what content you're going to capture, and then you have to actually go through the work of capturing it. And then you have to edit the content that you capture. Like, you know how many videos I have just sitting in my phone that you'll never see them. Girl.

I was like maybe for December I could do like all of the things that you all miss throughout the year because I was too busy trying to be a content creator that God hasn't called me to be because I didn't finish the editing. What is that fine line between my life has content that when I share it as a part of how I provide for my family but also like this is not content that I'm sharing? Like do you ever find yourself having to say like maybe I captured this but I don't necessarily want to share. it like what are maybe what are some of the guidelines you have in choosing what you will share and what you won't okay well first of all we i think we all have that backed up photos and videos list okay from years that we have that's make me feel better because we are not posted um really i am to the point where whatever feels good for myself so um if it doesn't feel good to post i'm not posting it um Even if somebody wants me to post, I'm not posting it.

And I'm very strict on what my kids want to be in and what they don't want to be in. Like, I don't feel that we need to show every part of our lives because I feel like when we do that, we miss being in our lives. You know what I mean? Like, we're so busy recording everything and like, did you enjoy that moment? What just happened? You don't even know because you were trying to capture this and capture that. So we have a rule when we go road tripping or growing trips. Like we can record, but there's no posting.

Like we don't even edit our post until we do go home. And if my kids say, Mom, I don't want to be in that video, then that that video is not going to be posted because, I mean, I believe they have a say to, you know. That's great. Okay, so there's a few questions that our team, after looking at your story, wanted us to ask,

especially as we're talking about going rogue and maintaining faith, and I'm wondering, what role has faith meant to you in some of the darkest and maybe also some of the brightest moments of your life? Without faith, I honestly don't think I would make it through most of my days.

You know, last year, our second house, We had a second house fire and everything burnt down. And in that process, I was pregnant, and I was just having, it was dark. I mean, it was like, why? Like, why is this happening right now? But my thought was like, no, like, whatever happens from here is supposed to be. Like, what are you believing that's going to happen out of the situation? So every dark moment I get in, like, I sit with my faith hand and hand,

Like, it's just, my purse is just filled with it, you know? Like, I believe that something good is going to come out of something. Like, it has to. Like, there's no way God kept, you know, anybody for this long and for it to just fall apart. So any moment that is dark, I'm just like, it's going to be okay. And in those bright moments, I'm sticking with it just the same. I know that our good moments don't last as much as our bad moments don't last. So we have to.

We have to believe that faith is going to carry us. Do you mind telling me a little bit about your faith journey, like when it became personal to you? Oh, yeah. I had been in church even as a little girl. And although I didn't know, I just went. I would just go and just, you know, but as I got older, I remember, like, I wanted to have this connection with God, but I wanted, I wanted something, and I wanted my husband to be with me. And my husband wasn't going to church at that time, and I would just go in the church, and I would sit in the pews, and I would just pray that he would be there. and eventually he came

and that's when him and I both went hand in hand like we started we started it together as a married couple as parents like you know no matter what happens no matter what we know that we have faith to carry us and we've been sticking with that ever since

and it's been it's had beautiful moments and it's also had some pretty dark moments as well, but I wouldn't change it. Can I ask you, as you look at your life and you consider, you know, what your story has been and the impact that it has had on so many people,

I am wondering, what does finishing the race look like for you in this season? Finishing the race. You know what? It looks like living. It looks like living freely as I am and how I'm supposed to do. And, you know, whatever happens in that process just happens.

I think, you know, if I live like this for the rest of my life, I would be okay. I really would be. That's beautiful. So maybe there's someone listening right now and they are dealing with their own scars, whether they are visible or invisible and they're learning to embrace. them, learning to live in a world where they aren't going away. They're going to be there. And they're having to respond to that. What words of encouragement would you give them? You know, I would first tell them, I have this saying that I always say to people, and it's not just talking about your outer scars, but your inner scars as well.

And it's, it's you are you, and that's what makes you beautiful. It's the stories that have gone on with your life that you've carried since birth that makes you who you are and that makes you special. And I think if we can all just hold on to that and realize that our lives are amazing, no matter how they look on the outside, the inside, like, we all have this amazing journey that we're going through. And, you know, just accepting it as it is and just feeling like, it's okay. It's okay. And you got to believe it too though. Don't tell yourself it's okay and then you're sitting there like actually believe that it's okay. It's okay to live as freely as you are. Do you feel like the believing comes and then the action comes or do you think that that acting and believing must work at the same time?

I feel like it has to work at the same time. I feel like you have, yes, you have to believe, but if you just believe in and just sitting down and doing nothing, then what do you have? You know, it's actions and believing at the same time. So step one, believe. Step two, act like you believe. Act like it, yes. What are you believe in God for in this season of your life?

What can we be praying for as your woman of all family? Because now we family now. I'm just believing God to just continue taking me wherever I'm supposed to go, you know, just living, Sarah. That's really all I got these days. I'm just believing God to continue to be with me on this journey of life. Amen. Well, thank you for your time today. I love your emphasis on just living.

I can't imagine going through what you went through at four years old, but then even last year and, you know, experiencing something so similar, again, it really adds weight when you say just living. And hopefully that will be an invitation to all who are listening to really lean into the living, not just the pursuing and the dreaming and the hoping. But what's one thing we can do to just live today? that's going to be my homework from today. Thank you. I love that. Thank you. I appreciate you. My pleasure. I hope you all enjoyed it as much as I did. I have been blown away by the privilege I've had to experience the ways that many different women are learning to evolve from different circumstances. Her journey shows that love can flourish despite physical scars and she, She believes that both belief and action are necessary for true freedom.

And that's a lesson that I took away from this week's episode. Listen, if you're trying to get out sometime during spring to get your life together, I want to invite you to come to Dallas, March 20th. We've got, hey, you can't be in the building. That's all right. You can log in online to make sure that you catch up with us. I hope this week's episode has been a blessing to you. I cannot wait until we talk next week.

Next week's conversations with Kev on stage. And we had a hoot and a holler. I think you all are going to enjoy it tremendously. Lord, thank you so much for the work that you are willing to do with us, regardless of what we bring to the table. Thank you for taking our best and making it better. Thank you for taking our worst and turning them into wisdom. I ask God that your spirit would fall on the hearts of every person who's listening right now, that they would experience a fresh outpouring of your grace,

and that that grace would remind them that they are loved, that they are capable of change, and that they still have the potential to live in a way that is set apart and special to you. Order their steps, God, as only you can do. Remind them that their failures, that their mistakes, that their pains, that their tribulations are not defining of their story, but that you have an edit in mind that would radically change the way that they show up in the world. And as we change, as we grow, as we evolve, Lord, may it show up in all that we do and all the ways that we love. In Jesus' name, amen. I'll holl out you next week.

Evolve.