Woman Evolve with Sarah Jakes Roberts - Protect Your Peace w/ Elaine Welteroth

Episode Date: April 1, 2026

When you get tired of who you are, you will have a conviction to change that starts from your heart. Until you are tired of the way that you show up, until you feel like this addiction is ruining my life. You may change temporarily, but you won't change permanently. There's a clock ticking on me, on my obedience. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Because this is not about me actually. Right.

And it's not about what people are going to think. This is about saving and changing lives. This is Sarah Jakes Roberts and you are listening to the Woman Evolved podcast or watching because what's up YouTube? We're trying to do a little something. Have you noticed we're trying to do something a little bit different. I am coming to you all the way from the stew. I am a rapper. Wait a minute.

I'm coming to you from this too. I'm not at the house. Listen, I am so excited about what we get to share with you this week. Have you ever, well, some of you say that I'm like this for you, but like have you ever follow someone on social media and you just. just knew in your soul that you knew them? Like, have you ever met them? No, but do you know them for sure? That is my experience with today's guest. But before we get into it, I just want, like, I've been spending, like, the last few months trying to get you to go rogue, and I need to know are you going rogue? Like, what are you doing differently than you have always done? How are you challenging yourself

to step out of your comfort zone, out of your fears, out of your insecurities, and to move with confidence and boldness into the direction that you know God has for you? That's what I want to. know when I think about going rogue, I think about doing something that people would not expect from you because of the way that you historically have shown up. There are not many opportunities in my life for me to go rogue because I've tried to be just like so honest about what I have and have not accomplished or mastered as it relates to my walk with the Lord or my own emotional and spiritual health. But when I think about moments of me like doing something that was probably not expected. I think about the moment

where I was forced to go rogue. Sometimes you get to choose to go rogue and sometimes life forces you to go rogue. I am reminded of when I was preaching a sermon. And you know what? I didn't go rogue. My wig went rogue. And what I did not

enjoy about that moment is that it was slipping. I didn't have many options. I don't know if you've seen it. Maybe they can insert one of those little boxes for those of you who are watching on YouTube to see well, some of you may have already seen it, but anyway, stay focused. Like, the wig was coming off, and I had no choice but to take, like, I literally had no choice but to take that wig off.

And here I am preaching in a wig cap. Didn't enjoy it. Wasn't my favorite thing to do, but sometimes life leaves you no other option, and you have to stand up to it, even if it means that you send up, they're vulnerable, worried about what people are going to think about you or say about you, you do it anyway. And guess what? You survive. You can survive going rogue.

People may talk about you. There may be moments in your life where people don't even understand why you did what you did, but you realize I didn't have any other choices and I did the best that I could. And if I am going to do things differently, it will be as a result of what happened in this last experience. But I need you to know that you can survive going rogue. People are going to move on. They're going to have more experiences. You're going to move on and you are going to be more resilient and better as a result of you accepting that going rogue was my only option.

the end, I believe it made me better. So, you know, a thumbs up, wigs off, or whatever. Enter something very clever there. It'll all tie together. Okay, you took a minute into mind my business. Now let me get into yours. By the way, if you are interested in me minding your business, and I am interested in minding your business, primarily because my life is too overwhelming that I find joy in minding other people's business. I want to encourage you to use this number to hit me up, call me, and let me know what's going on in your world. That number is 214. 790-7-871. Give me a ring so that I can mind your business

like I'm about to do our girls. Roll it. Hey, this day is. My question is when you're on a spiritual and healing journey and you're seeking freedom, but you feel as if your heart is not transformed all the way, as in like, you're basically on a healing and spiritual journey for the wrong reason.

Not basically saying everything, is wrong but you want better and you want more but you can't help but to see like dang am i on this journey just to you know look like i'm okay just to you know like am i overly future right now just to over you know just to compensate for the hurt that i have experience and to actually just show them you know like I'm in a good space like I just want to know like How do you actually, like, transform your heart to where it is reformed, like, to where you're healing and going on spheres of journey for good reasons? But how did you get past that stage?

I really love this question because it really speaks to the intention of why we seek transformation. A lot of times people want to do the right thing because they just know that it. it's the right thing to do. And I am telling you that change that is not birth from the heart will always have regression. Regression could be a part of our growth process in general. But when it is something that is not born from the heart, there will always be regression. What I hear you saying in your question is that I'm doing the right thing because I know it's what I'm supposed to do. But how do I get to a space where I'm doing the right thing because it feels like it is something that I am doing from the heart? I wrote down that doing what you should do versus what you

you feel convicted to do is what makes the difference. If you want to experience real transformation as it relates to your behavior, your mentality, your actions, you have to do it from a place of conviction. So then the next question is, how do I get to a place of conviction? For me, I was trying to do the right thing. So after I had my kid, I'm like, okay, well, I got to get married because that's the right thing to do and I got to do this. I got to go to school because it's the right thing to do, but I was doing it because it felt like it was what I was supposed to do. My life really began to change when I got to a place where I honestly did not like who I was anymore. I had so much hate in my heart, so much anger in my heart that I really wanted to be a different person. I was tired of who I was.

When you get tired of who you are, you will have a conviction to change that starts from your heart. Until you are tired of the way that you show up, until you feel like this addiction is ruining my life, until you get to a place where you're like this relationship and these behaviors are damaging me and I don't like who I am becoming. You may change temporarily, but you won't change permanently. When scripture says that man looks at the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart, God's looking at the heart because the heart gives so much opportunity for us to understand what's driving our actions and our behaviors. God did something in my heart where I looked at my heart and I just didn't like it. I wanted my heart to be changed and transformed. My relationship with Jesus is honestly not based on the fact that I grew up in church

and that I was surrounded by church my whole life or stories about Jesus my whole life. I started looking at the heart of Jesus. And I started looking at this person who was bold and confident and forgiving. Matthew 5 gives us such a beautiful reflection of what it means to have a heart like Jesus. And he starts saying some of the craziest things. Like we're going to bless those who cursed us. We're going to turn the other cheek. All of these things that you can only do if you do it from the heart.

And when I fell in love with Jesus' heart and I looked at my heart, I saw the distance. And there's a part of me that was like, well, girl, you ain't going to never be Jesus, so you might as well give up. But then there was this other part of me that was like, but maybe I can just try. And no, my heart may not ever perfectly match Jesus' heart, but there can be something about my heart that is in a constant pursuit of God's will for my life. and for me to be a reflection of God and all of the things that I do. So if you're asking me, how do I get to a place where my transformation is real and authentic, I want to challenge you to not do it because you're supposed to, to not do it because everyone else is doing it, but to do it because you're looking at the condition of your heart.

You're looking at your bitterness. You're looking at your unforgiveness. Maybe your pride, your ego. And you're thinking to yourself, I really want to be different. and to not just want to be different, but to give yourself a target. And when I look at scripture, I'm looking at a target, a goal of what's possible for my heart and looking at the life of Jesus. And when that becomes my goal, this is the part where the desire becomes action. As I start asking myself, what types of actions do the people who have this type of heart do in the situations that I am in?

And sometimes I couldn't ask that question until after that fact, because like the way that my heart was set at, like my default was very, was very my damaged heart. And when my default is my damaged heart, sometimes I respond before I have an opportunity to reflect. But just because you responded before you reflect, it doesn't mean that you don't have a responsibility to then reflect on how you responded. And in the reflection on my response, I would learn things that I should have said differently, ways that I could have shown up that would have been more healthy and more beneficial for myself or whoever or whatever was on the other side of that thing. And I would make a commitment that next time I'll try to do better. and it takes practice. When you're trying or reaching for a new heart,

you may not always get it right off the bat, but if you keep reaching and if you keep trying, you'll begin to step into a new version of yourself. You will be transformed by the renewing of your mind. That word transforms to just a process. It's a process, but a beautiful one that I hope you will embark on. Thank you for trusting me with your heart. And whatever condition it's in, I think it's beautiful.

I know God thinks it's beautiful, and it can only get more beautiful from here. Did you know that April is Financial Literacy Awareness Month? I wanted to share with you a tip that I recently learned about financial literacy that I knew that I was doing, but I never had language for it. And it's called revenge spending. I don't know if you've ever heard of this before, but revenge spending is a response of our spending habits after we've had to be frugal

or we didn't have money. And so we overspend in reaction to us not have. having had money. But the thing about revenge spending is that it's not limited to when you get to a space where you finally have money. Sometimes you can be so frustrated in your lack that you begin to spend because you feel like I'm going to be behind anyway. It doesn't matter. I might as well splurge. So whether you are in a space of life where you're finally got, you're not living paycheck to paycheck and you finally have a little bit extra, be careful for spending for the times when you didn't have. But also, maybe you're in a season where the ends aren't meeting and you've given up

and you're like, I might as well treat myself. Someone said something, and I don't know that I believe that is true, but they said it's not a treat if you treat yourself every day. They were talking about chocolate chip cookies, but I'm talking about the way that you spend. There may be moments where you do give yourself a little bit of a treat, but try to be careful as it relates to revenge spending that you aren't constantly overspending

because you'll never get to a space of being sustained or even having excess if you're always spending in that way. It is Financial Literacy Awareness Month, And if you need more tips and tools on how to budget, how to prepare for the future, I want to encourage you to go to Womenevolv TV where we have all types of series about budgeting, about financial literacy. We even have a course. We'll put the information in the show notes or the notes of the video so that you can

plug in if you need a little bit more support. So remember when I told you about like really feeling like you know people, Elaine Welter Roth is one of those people that I know in my soul that I know. that I don't know, you know. And I got to sit down with her and talk to her. And I feel like it is not coincidental that we're talking about like taking the time to really sit with our heart because both of us got off of social media at the top of the year and it allowed us some time to sit with our heart and to reflect on the condition of our heart and to check in with our dreams and our pursuits to figure out whether or not there was still alignment.

Now, we're going to have a conversation with her. And because she is so incredible and so humble, you're not going to realize how impactful her life has been and how impactful it continues to be. But she has started this fun, this campaign that I want you to know about, primarily because you have probably seen the impact of it not existing on social media. Before I logged off, I saw this story going viral. And it was from my hometown of Dallas, Texas. There's this woman. She's in labor in the waiting room. And you can tell that she is in excruciating pain. the contractions are coming frequently. I think she may have been there with her mother who's recording her in labor.

And then you've got this intake nurse or specialist who's like trying to get her information, right? She's in pain. And the lady's kind of just acting like, it doesn't matter at all. Like she's like, I can't get you back there until you answer these questions. She's treating this woman's pain so cavalierly and like she's being dramatic or that is not that serious. And let me tell you, within minutes, she ends up. having the baby in the waiting room. I have never seen anything more infuriating in my entire life. If you've ever had a loved one who's in the hospital, there's already this desire for us to be

protective, whether they need ice chips or more pain medicine. And to see her pain not being taken seriously reminds me of why what Elaine Walter Roth is doing is so important, not just for all women, but disproportionately black women are impacted by this reality that sometimes their pain isn't taken seriously, sometimes in the healthcare field, they aren't seen with as much intentionality and with as much urgency. And she's doing something through birth fun. Can I say the funniest part of this? I'm sorry, y'all know what I'm trying to be serious. But she talks about having midwives and how midwives can make a difference in someone's maternal health journey. but then she called it midwifery.

Can we spell it on the screen, please? If you're listening on audio, when I saw this in the notes in preparation for our conversation, it spelled M-I-D-W-I-F-E-R-Y. I thought to myself midwifery. I did. It's midwifery, and who knew that?

And that's why you need to listen to the Woman Evolve podcast because you would just be out here pronouncing words incorrectly, and we will all be out here wrong together. So something you've already learned from this episode, midwifery, okay? Midwifery can make a huge difference in the outcomes for women who are pregnant, particularly black women and initiatives like the birth fund exist to help connect

under-resourced communities to have the level of midwifery that can help make a difference in their maternal health journey. Elaine Walter Roth was the youngest and the second black woman to be the editor-in-chief at Teen Vogue. it from a magazine that was just about fashion and trends and beauty and expanded it to include consciousness and social justice and impact. And that was by no coincidence at all. What I love about my conversation with Elaine is that it is an opportunity for us to consider what it looks like for our dreams to pivot, for us to walk into spaces that are used to doing one thing and us

introducing a perspective that allows for expansion. She talks about when it works, when it doesn't work, but most importantly, the beauty that can come from us taking a pause. Let's get into this week's episode. At the top of the year, I took some time off from social media, and I'm like just now getting back on. And so I feel like I haven't been able to like connect with you. Not that we've ever met, but I feel like, girl, we haven't caught up. Like, how are the kids?

What's happening in the world? Not that we've ever met. Not that I know any of your business in real life. You weren't at my baby chart? I wasn't there. You weren't. Like, we haven't had a sleepover? I could not believe we were expecting again.

I was like, oh my gosh. And a boy, because did we wait to find out? Like, it was just, I've been stalking you. That's what I wanted to say. So thank you so much for being on the Woman Evol podcast. Oh my God, are you kidding me? So first of all, I thought that we had a sleepover. I know.

I mean, I thought that we... Okay, so this is the first real time that we met. In actual real life. Okay, well, I'm honored to meet you. And by the way, I also took time off of social media for the first time in my entire career in life. came from December until literally like this past week. You can't tell me we're not France.

So that's why, yeah, we were, we were offline together. We were, that's why I missed so, okay. That's why you missed something. Yeah, I wasn't there. What was it like for you being off? The best thing I've ever done. It's so good. I'm actually, I'm very, I'm, you're finding me in a moment of conflict.

Okay. Internal conflict. Yeah. I think I'm arriving at a place of understanding how to bring the piece that I have found that I've embodied in a whole different way by reclaiming my attention and my time. God, so many fruits. So many fruits of the spirit have come from getting out of that cycle of just spending so much time on the internet.

I'm trying to figure out how do I take the piece that I have found and bring it with me as I reemerge? And how do I reemerge new? How do I bring more intention? How do I bring this spirit? I don't want to sacrifice what I've gained by being when I'm called to come forward. So this is where I'm at. I'm like a little bit in conflict because the second that I feel anything that's not of the spirit, I'm like, put it down.

Put it down. So I'm negotiating with God. Like what does this new era? Where does social media fit into this new era that you've brought me to, God? It cannot look like it did before. It can't feel like it did before. It can't take over. Like my time, if it's, if it's, if it's.

like if it's not spent at work, I feel like it belongs to my children. Right. And so I'm trying to figure it out, girl. What about you? What's your strategy? So when I, first of all, I love social media. Yeah. So, I mean, not even necessarily like posting and content creation.

Like, I love minding other people's business. I do. I do. You know, I just like scrolling. I love being in the comments until the comments are about me and the scrolls are about me. That's when I hate it. Right. But so when I got off, I thought that I would really miss it.

And I never missed it. Yep. I never missed it. There was something about, I was telling my husband I felt like even though I would close the app, I would still be processing what I was exposed to in my mind. So it was like I was still scrolling even when I put my phone down. And it has been nice to own all of the real estate of my mind. Yes. Say that again.

That's a gem. And I think to be able to process thoughts that are my own. Yes. I find myself not drifting towards what I'd seen on the phone, but like what's happening in my prayer. It was just powerful for me. Yeah. And I realized that I needed to get back on because, I mean, it is an incredible tool in a way of reaching people and sharing messages. And I think it's unavoidable to, if you desire, if you're in a space where you want to reach people, you have to go where people are.

Yes. But I, too, am conflicted. So, like, I post and literally delete the app off my phone so that I don't even fall back in. to those same rhythms and patterns. Yes. But social media has changed too. Yeah, it has. And when I first started, I mean, I was just on Facebook connecting with people.

So much of what Woman Evolve is at its core has to do with the people who I met on social media and getting to do life with them. Yes. And to walk with them and they knew me. But I think that as it changed as the influence began to grow, that it became less and less safe for my emotional well-being and mental health to be on their. So right now I'm posting and deleting and really depending on other people to help me like navigate the space. Yes. Can I tell you, I mean everything you said I would like comment and subscribe to all of that. But I post right now like this. I open the app. Yeah, because I don't know because that's how to get you.

That's how they get you. As soon as it open. It's like oh and then suddenly you're thinking about that. I don't want to think about anything. I want to think about what I want to share. Yes. So I cover it up. I open it up and then I look for that plus sign in the corner. I press it and then I go straight into what I'm trying to share. As soon as it's up, I put it down.

You know what's good. So when I delete, like so I just got back on this week or it may have been last week. So I posted, I deleted the app. But then I got to ask myself questions when I was like, I wanted to go and see. And then it was like, what do you want to go see? I want to see what people are saying about me. And that's why you don't need to be on there because you don't need this platform. feeding your ego or your insecurities.

You posted what you posted as an offering. Now put it down and move on with your life. That's it. Are we maturing? Oh, my gosh. Are we women involving? Wait a minute. I think we're evolving together.

I love this for us. Me too. You know what's fine. Okay, I'm going to say this. And then I will ask you actual questions. Okay, okay. But it's so funny. So I got off, no, I knew that I had to get back on social media because I was thinking

about like never getting back on again in my life. And I know that it's a tool that God is used in my life. And so I position in my mind, I'm getting back on on this date. So that Sunday before I got on, I was speaking, I was speaking off of like three hours of sleep, which I'm already like not the best speaker, but we can talk about that later. No, but not like in my, it's just not my thing. But like, so I'm like always in my head. And so I was policing myself off of three hours of sleep. And so I'm preaching and processing. And I was about to say something like when God woke your eyes up.

And then in my head, I'm like, God doesn't wake your eyes up. And so I caught myself, but I said, woke your eye, and it sounded like I was going to cuss. And so instead of eyes, I think I said, but it sounded like I was going to cuss. But I'd already said in my mind

that I was getting on social media. And of course, you know, someone grabbed the clip. They're like, H.JR is about to cuss on the pulpit. And then you got like, people who are like, you know, this is why she don't need to be up there. And then other people like, that's why she's our girl. And so I was almost thinking, like,

I'm not going to get on it. all. I'm going to wait until the death settles. But then I'm like, I have to be true to who I am regardless of what's happening. And so I think my reentry at a time of like minimal controversy also made me realize that like you really have to overcome some of the fears and anxieties that come with me on social media. So what did you do? I posted in. I was like, hey, y'all, I posed a picture me and my dog. I didn't say, I didn't acknowledge it. You didn't address it. Because I do feel like people are going to believe whatever they want to believe. And then a lot of people didn't even know about it. So it's like if I say something, and it's just, it's what,

it doesn't matter. Yeah. Yeah. Why draw attention to it? Why draw attention to it? So, okay, so, all right, so you grew up in California. What was that like for you? Tell me your story, your life. Well, let's go. Life story. Let's go in five seconds. Yes. But first, okay, before we get serious, okay, yes. I have to be a little bit unsirious and just say that I'm distracted by your Bob. Because Bobiana is giving. And when I was on social media. Tell me about it. My last era, my last season. I was in my Babiana season.

Really? And let me tell you, it was my baddest behavior. Yes. Everywhere I went, I was just walking into rooms like this. Like, I was having so much fun. And I don't know. Now you're making me miss it. Well, you know, I feel like it all depends on who you are in any season, what hair you have.

Yeah. I'm in a different season. Yeah. This is my real, this is like, if you know me, like, this is my, this is how I wake up in the morning. Yes. That's a lot of work. I wake up, I have jail braids underneath this. Did you say jail braids?

Oh, yes. I love that you said that. Yes. So when I wake up, we love you because you keep it real. Oh, it's true. It is true. So, you know, this is not how I wake up in the morning, but there is something that happens to me when I put on the Bible where I feel like I'm an actual adult.

Like, I know I'd be playing with y'all. Right. But when I put this bobble on, I'm a grown up and put some respect on my name. 100%. You care yourself different. For sure. Yes. You're giving first lady for sure right now.

Someone said that. Yes, it's giving first lady. Amen. Yes, amen. But okay, so let me try to remember. Let me try to be serious. No, no, I'm going to help you. Let me be serious.

Okay, so my life story. No, no. Okay, yes, tell me your life story. No, no, no. You ask me because you don't want me here. And I'll be here all. We'll be on sleepover. I will be here until tomorrow in my pajamas.

Okay, so when's the last time you went rogue in your life and broke some of your own rules? Ooh. When is the last time I went rogue and a girl? good or a bad way. Well, testify, you're safe here. When is the last time I went rogue? Depends on how you define rogue, which I'm actually really curious what your definition of rogue is, given that that is your theme for women involved. And it made me curious, like all of your other themes, I know. I immediately, I'm like, oh, yes, yeah, I get it. And it's not like I don't get it, but I'm like, I want to know what she means. So you tell me what you mean, and then I will answer the

In Romans 12, it talks about not being conformed to this world, but being transformed by the renewing of our mind. And there is an invitation for us to go rogue as it, like we're shaped in this world. And so in order for us to not be conformed to it, it really is an unconforming that has to take place before we transform. And so we're challenging people to take inventory of their lives, their patterns, their habits, their paradigms, to determine how much of this aligns with who I know I'm supposed to be in God. And if there isn't an alignment there, how do we I not subtly break up with it. Not how do I depart from it, but how do I literally go rogue, which there is an intensity and a radical nature that exists within that term. And so we want

people to become very serious about their destiny, their purpose and identity in God, which means that they're going to have to go rogue from some of the limiting beliefs and behaviors and patterns that have restricted them. Okay. All right. Come on. Definition. Come on somebody. And I won't even prepare for that. Well, that was beautiful. I mean, that's the sermon for Sunday. So just clip that. But I would say, you know, I think rogue has taken on different meanings in different stages of my life and different parts of my career even. I think that I have become very good going rogue in a certain sense, meaning breaking the rules, understanding how the game is played and doing it a different way and making space for other people to realize there's different ways to play the game. And to be truiting. yourself in the process. I think when I was at Teen Vogue, going rogue looked like taking something that once looked like, you know, this traditional fashion magazine that spoke to young people about celebrities and high fashion and really helping to reshape it into something that

made space for more, for more voices, for more stories from places that we weren't really hearing from, you know, bringing in social justice issues, bringing in, you know, intersectional feminist issues, and putting a lens on the world that was just more expansive than the one we were operating with prior. And I felt like that was an opportunity for me to bring more of me to my job and to unleash something inside of me that I needed when I was, you know, a young person reading magazines looking for my place in the world, looking for a dream to aspire to, a lifestyle to, you know, to see myself in one day. And growing up, I did not have magazines that I saw myself in. In fact, my first memory in preschool was of not seeing myself

in magazines. When we had to, we were asked, our assignment in preschool was to, and I think about this a lot right now because my son is now in preschool. Yeah. My son is the, age that I was when I had my very first memory that sticks with me to this day. So I'm constantly thinking, is this the first memory? Right, right, right. Like, is he, oh, he might remember that. Like, I want his first memory to be a beautiful, empowering one, affirming memory that's going to serve him. My first memory was sort of the opposite, but it did serve me. But it was a memory of not belonging. It was a memory of not seeing myself. and wondering why, and then shape-shifting to try to be something that I'm not.

Basically, the assignment was to create a family collage. And I come from an interracial, an interracial, an interracial family. So my mother is a black woman. My father is a white man. And my brother and I are somewhere in between. And we grew up in a neighborhood where it really wasn't common. to be, to not be able to check a box. Okay.

And so we were trying to figure out, do we check both boxes? Like, what do we do? And, you know, they were like, you're black. Let's just be clear. Yeah. The world's going to see you as black. You can feel however you feel. And yes, this is your day, but like you're going to check black.

So anyway, but in preschool, the assignment was to do a family collage and they gave us all these magazines. And I remember looking around and seeing everybody cutting out their people and me being like, but nobody looks like me. and nobody looks like my mom, nobody looks like my brother. And so, long story short, I decided to do what everyone else was doing, even though they brought me a match. Some teacher noticed that it was getting awkward,

and they were like, let's bring her. They were like, they had a magazine where there was, there were black people, and they were like, why don't you cut out her? And I was like, she didn't look like me. And also acknowledging that I have to pull from this other magazine that was not on the table makes me feel less than, or like an outsider is different somehow. I don't want that.

So I just froze up and I started cutting out white people. Okay. And that was awkward for everyone involved. And when I came home with that, my mom was like, no, no, no, no, no. We're going to get the Ebony and the Essence magazines on the table, get your brother, and we're going to redo this assignment. And we're going to let you keep your white dad, even though you have him in a suit. He doesn't wear suits. He's a carpenter, you know, like.

So that moment was really, really empowering and foreshadowing. Okay. Because it was an opportunity to reclaim our narrative. It was an opportunity to write ourselves in where we were missing. And we cut out people who looked like us. We peeled off those white people. And my mom put that collage next to my bed. And it was the first thing I saw every day, the last thing I saw every night.

And it was a reminder of who we are and who we're here to, who we were going to be proud. And that we were going to be proud of ourselves, despite what the world said. And so it's interesting to foreshadow and see, or to forecast and see where I ended up, you know, being someone who was in a position to write us into those pages, literally and figuratively, and to hire people who could write in people who look like them or who come from where they come from. So in a way, I would say in the more traditional sense of going rogue, like that was my era of going rogue. And I think that's become a part of my ethos. I think that's what I do. I think I go into spaces. I understand what it is. But then I see.

see white space and I see an opportunity and I see what it could be if we are more honest, if we're more authentic, if we're more inclusive, if we're, there's always room to evolve. Yeah. And I try to push the envelope where I can, where I'm welcome. And I've had other experiences. I was going to ask. Where I've brought that same spirit. And it wasn't as welcome, even though it was, you know, that was what the agreement was or

that's what was set up front. But I do think people like to be comfortable. And especially now, post-2020, I think people are actually afraid of truth tellers. Yeah. I think people are afraid of people who will bring too much truth. And so it's put, I think, people like me in this position where now we have to think about what we are going to say and what the impact is of what we're going to say. Now my life has changed. I've grown.

I've evolved. I'm a mom. I have children. I have private school tuition. I have a home. I have more on the line. I have more to lose. I have higher stakes.

And so it's been an interesting, the last couple of years have been interesting to me. Also, my life is, I think my personal life has gotten bigger and I want to spend time there more. So when I kind of wade, the cost of saying something or doing something,

even if I'm being true to myself, it's like some of the things I've decided to do the opposite of what I used to do. I've pulled back. I've said less. And I don't know how I feel about that. I don't, sometimes I understand, sometimes I feel, sometimes I think it's the smart thing

and the wise thing. But I think so much. much of what my spirit, what feeds, like, I was born with a brave spirit. Yeah. I was born to push the envelope. I was born to tell the truth. That's why I'm in the room. So I think I am navigating now as I come forward because I think the last couple years I've

given myself grace to do what I need to do for my family and for myself in a more vulnerable period, postpartum. You know, I just had, I just, I feel like I'm just coming out of this postpartum fall. right? I just had a baby a year ago. And so, but I do think there's been some radical changes within me from, including this period of time that I've spent offline, that I'm like, okay, there is a way. There is a way to marry the discernment and the wisdom with the truth that was put within me to share. And I think I'm in a period of my life where I'm navigating what that looks like. I'm weaving together a new pattern. And it's a little bit scary, but it's a lot

empowering. And we're going to see. I feel like when we talk next time, we'll see what rogue looks like for me in that stage. I think I'm not necessarily operating in rogue. I'm operating in, well, I guess maybe the rogue now is maybe doing something counter to my patterns, countercultural, which is just stepping back. I think what Rogue looks like for me now is pulling back when I need to and giving only what I'm comfortable giving and prioritizing my own safety, my family's safety, and my peace. Yeah. I think prioritizing my peace and not feeling like I owe the world or even the room that I'm in, this version of me that, honestly, that it takes, it takes. a toll. It takes a toll to be the one who's saying the thing and who's doing the thing that

maybe everyone's not ready for. Like I had that energy in the 20, in my 20s and my early 30s, I had that energy. And now I'm like, do I feel, does it need to be said by me? Does it need to be said right now? What is the cost of what? What's the cost to me when I go home? And sometimes it's not worth it. And honestly, I know that feels almost like the opposite of rogue, but for me being softer, being quieter, being quieter, being more tender is my version, weirdly, of going rogue. I think that counts, though. I know it counts because it's personal. What it means to go rogue for each individual is personal. And for some people, it is time for me to be bold. It's time to be courageous. And then for others, it is time for me to rest. Yes. And I do think...

Rest is radical. It is radical. Rest is radical, especially for when you're women like us. Yes. To feel confident, it's an act of faith to step back and know that you're not missing anything. You're not losing anything. In fact, you're gaining so much more that when you decide or when you are called back, you have something to offer that is of greater value. I think that to me is a radical act of faith. So I want to just applaud us for stepping back. For sure. Yeah. Did you, what led to you stepping back? from social media? Well, I'd known for a while

that it wasn't healthy for me but I had convinced myself that I just needed to be more resilient and that the more that I ingested people speaking negatively about me the more that it would become normal and it wouldn't hurt anymore and I wouldn't question myself anymore

and after Woman Evolved last year we were I guess viral on like every platform for a lot of different reasons. And there were a lot of... Good viral, bad viral, a mix of both. It was negative. Okay. Can I tell you? It didn't reach me. I need you to know that. Other things, we'd be thinking stuff is viral and then people just be checking on you and you're like, y'all, thank you so much and I'm like, girl, I was just checking on you. It really was, you know. I know, it makes you feel like everyone in the world has turned their back on me. And so when I got off and I realized that like,

when I was at the store, at my kid's school, that like no one was talking about it. Right. That's why sometimes we need to go touch grass. Baby. Nobody cares. And then the algorithm is set up to make you believe that it is happening everywhere. Yes. But I knew it wasn't good for me. And I just wasn't building the resiliency.

Yeah. And so I'm like, well, maybe my resiliency isn't reserved for this. Yes. Maybe I'll never be strong enough to handle this. Maybe I need to limit it and limit the way that I engage with it. Boundaries. Boundaries. Yes.

And so I think I finally was just like, okay, I'm going to log off and see what happens in that moment. What you said about going rogue kind of being counterculture to who you have been historically, I think is something that people need to really lean into. Because a lot of times we're thinking, like, how do I maintain this definition of myself that has been bold and big and bad and resilient and to make space for a new definition. definition of myself. I think that's very powerful. I do think that the world has also made us believe that we need to have a response to everything. That part. And I think that that's what makes us tired too. I actually spoke about this and the message is like, I have to care about everything. Right. Because it's all so heavy and also dark. It's my responsibility as someone who wants to be present and to be active and engaged in bringing light and positivity in the world to chase every

form of darkness. But I don't believe that I am anointed for every form of darkness. I don't. I know that there are certain elements of darkness that I have a light that I can carry into those spaces. There are other spaces that will extinguish my light. Yes. And so I have to be intentional about where I am called to carry light and where I'm not so that I can preserve the light that I have. That. Yeah. That is why I started Berthman. Yeah. Because that was a time where the world felt so overwhelming with so many competing, massive issues. And historically, I was that girl. I was commenting on this.

I was commenting on that. I was jumping on to say something about this, and I have opinions. Right. But the cost, the toll, the energy, the drain. I mean, I was like, wait a minute, I cannot be effective or impactful trying to boil the ocean. Right. What I need to do is focus on the issue that was placed most deeply in my heart that is part of my calling.

That I see an opportunity to build a solution around that I can meaningfully move the needle on. Right? Not just be commenting on. Right. But really like put my anchor around, like put my anchor down on this part of the ocean. and focus on fixing this. And all of the energy and the anger and the rage and the hope and the joy. All of the energy that I have, let me invest it in the area that I am called

and the people that I am called to serve here. And when I tell you, it has been the most fulfilling work that I've done and such a clarifying, it's created a clarifying container around what needs me and what doesn't need me. Yeah. Right? Like, I don't need to be speaking on everything. I don't need to be trying to fix everything.

I cannot fix the world, but I can fix this corner of the world. Me and God, the way God, like, uses me, the way that I get visions, the way I know how to rally and galvanize, but I can't do that when I'm not focused. I have to focus. And it's just been incredible. We're coming up on two years. I was going to say, can you tell us what it is? I know what it is.

I know what. So I started birth fund, which is a fund that has helped hundreds of families have safe affirming birth care. I started it shortly after my experience being pregnant and realizing even with someone, you know, even for someone with influence and access and privilege and a network of people to tell me where to go and who the best doctors. are I could not find a doctor that made me feel safe against the backdrop of this surging maternal mortality crisis that over indexes that, you know, that black women are disproportionately impacted, dying at three to four times the rate. And I think you hear those statistics and it's easy for you to feel like they're just statistics and that they don't have anything to do with you until you're the one.

Yeah. Sitting in those seats in front of those doctors and understanding for the first time how it happens, how you become a statistic. And I felt that. I went through multiple doctors. It was a harrowing and scary experience for me. And I ended up in the hands of midwives, black midwives. And I learned, I really started to understand the history of midwifery and the, the, the, evidence-backed, you know, like the data-backed model that actually saves lives.

And I put on my journalist hat when I was in this quest to find good care. And I found that 80% of these deaths can be avoided with midwifery care. And by the way, midwifery care is not covered by insurance in this country, but it is covered. It is the default birth care model in every other wealthy country. in the world, who, by the way, all have much better outcomes, birth outcomes than we do in America, even though we are considered the richest country in the world,

and we have all these advancements in technology, but by and large, women who are giving birth are not making it or they're coming through with birth trauma that is avoidable. And so I identified, like, midwifery is a solution, solution, a known solution that we can be investing in, that we can be galvanizing support around, why are we not doing that? Because most people don't know. And so if there's one thing I can do, is I can help people understand and learn about something that I'm passionate about. And I, and I was just like, I know too many powerful, influential, change-making, trailblazing

women that if they knew this, oh, we could, baby, we could, let's go, we could, we could solve this at least for these women who right I just kept thinking there was an urgency around building this because I was like I can sit on this call and I can doubt myself and think like oh maternal health God people people don't care about women's health people don't care about maternal health like for me I think people are so used to seeing me in this like shiny media fashion space like is it going to make sense to people like I had my doubts about it but I'm like as I'm sitting here on this call on my life that could save lives, there are women who are pregnant now who need this support. Yeah. Like there's an actual, there's a clock ticking on me, on my obedience.

Oh, do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Because this is not about me actually. Right. And it's not about what people are going to think. This is about saving and changing lives. Let's go. Are we doing this? Are we not doing? I really felt God being like, are we doing this or nah? You're the one. I'm calling you to bring all of your storytelling skills, everything, all the connections I've given you to build this solution. And so I did. And it's been one of the best things I've ever done. And it really is, it's not a pivot. It's a culmination of everything that I've done.

And the beauty is, I mean, hundreds of families, hundreds of babies have been born into our fund in just under two years. And what's beautiful from a career perspective, and people, who are navigating pivots or new chapters or, you know, God's calling me to do this, but I have doubts and what does it mean about all this other stuff that I want to do? God makes room. He makes room for it all. Like, he's not going to call you over here and decrease your territory. He's going to reward you by expanding your territory. But it starts with your obedience. But I do think it's important that a movement moves without you. Yes. And so, but it takes a lot of groundwork to get it to that place where it can. But here I am. I'm just like, I'm still

doing all the other things. I'm still doing television. I'm writing my second book. I just put out my eyewear collared. Come on from a lot. I've been manifesting for like six. I've been manifesting this since Teen Boe. I'm like glasses have been my thing. So the beauty is I say all this to say. I'm not just trying to flex, but I think that there is a universal takeaway from that experience of you might not be maternal health for you. It might not be, you know, I don't know what it is for you, but we are all called to do something to change the world. We're not called to do everything, but we're called to do something. And I think getting really still and quiet and listening. And then being obedient when that call comes will only make more space for you. You will only

be rewarded. And I wish that somebody told me that. You know what I mean earlier? I wish that had that kind of encouragement in my ear rather than the voices that were in my head at the time. You know what I mean? No, what you said, though, I'm glad you said that because I was going to ask for you to move from the space of fashion and journalism into medical care and resources for women who have sometimes negative maternal health outcomes, I think speaks to the broadness of who you are. And I feel like once people know a certain version of you, that it can be tempting to say, you know what, this is the only thing they know about me, this is what they expect for me,

I don't have permission to be broad. But you don't need permission to be broad. You just need the courage to be willing to bring all of yourself into whatever space that you're in. So as much as it is fashion, it is also maternal health, and it is, you're a mother yourself, and I'm sure there are so many other things on the inside of you. I'm glad that you took the time to speak to women who may be wondering within themselves, how do I make space for people to receive all of who I am? Yes.

But they'll never have the space unless you bring all of who you are into the moment. That part. And you have to be willing to say these are all the dimensions of who I am. And maybe it's confusing. Maybe they don't go together on paper. But I'm telling you it's possible because this is the truth of all of who I am. And I think that's something that women need more permission to do is to bring all of themselves, no matter how odd, quirky, unique it may seem.

like that is you putting God's brilliance on display. Like God never asked us to be these carbon copies of one another or these limited versions of who we are. If he put all of that in you, all of that creativity, all of that vision, then allow the world to experience it. And I do believe that the greatest gift is not just what you give to the world, but I think it's what you get to know about yourself in the process as well. And I feel like that confidence allows you to throw it into another direction as new ideas come. Yes. And it's so beautifully said. And what I think about, especially as it relates to woman evolve, the platform that you've built, if you say yes, God, to evolving, then naturally you need to say yes, God, to what comes from that evolution. And

naturally new ideas, new experiences are going to inspire new visions for your life. for your career. And so you can't, you can't just evolve in one category and not the other. You know, I feel in my, with more than enough, the thing that I wrote in that book

that I found myself saying to so many women and also to myself at different stages in my life is that we are allowed to dream more than one dream. Yes. Right? And our life is a series of dreams realized. It is, it's not like God said,

you get this one dream. Yes. You get this one dream and that's it. Our lives are long. The world is changing rapidly. Why would we not give our purpose space to evolve alongside us? Yes. Obviously, I mean, you're born with a purpose, but purpose is multifaceted and purpose can look different in different seasons.

Purpose can be applied in different ways. And I'm just not one to just check one box. I just never have been since I was a child. No matter what the world told me. that they've, you know, no matter what the world said I was, I always said this is who I am. No matter what I was, when I was told to say this, not that, I'd say, I'm going to say what I need to say. Like, that is who I am. I'm not ever going to check one box. And I'm not doing it now. And I feel like, you know, I don't even think of any of the, the changes that I've made in my career.

It's an evolution. I don't think about it as a pivot. I think about it as almost like an investment portfolio. Yes. I'm diversifying my investments and I am expanding. So to me, that word expand is like, that's who I am. That's what I will always be. That's at the core of, I don't know, the mission that God has put me here with. You're just going to keep on expanding. And you diversify your joy and your sense of fulfillment.

And a lot of times you're like, oh, I don't feel fulfilled. I don't feel purposeful. but I also don't want to take any chances and I don't want people to look at me differently. But once you overcome those limiting beliefs, you recognize like, oh, there are several different things that bring me joy and several different things that make me feel fulfilled.

So I don't have to be limited to this one expression. Exactly. And that's a powerful, powerful gift that we can give ourselves. Okay, so I am wondering, in speaking of fulfillment, what are some of the things that bring you joy that seem just maybe mundane are not very special, but there are things that bring you lots of joy. Oh, my God, can I tell you, I am entering my soccer mom era.

Oh, come on. And I'm, I didn't know. I didn't know. 20-year-old me did not know. It's fun. The joy of sitting there cheering for your child. Yes. Like, what?

And don't let your child be good. That part. That part. He's mine. Yes. That one right there belongs to me. Yes. The way I walk around, it's a little bit like how I walk with my bob when I'm walking with my baby.

I'm like, yes, that was him. You see him. You see him. But yeah, it's so fun. I just took him to his first official tee ball practice yesterday. He was in this other tee ball that was just like getting him ready for the tee ball team. Okay. When I tell you my little boy, my little three-year-old.

Okay. And he hit it and it went. I was just, I lost my mind. And so I'm, this is, these are the things that bring me joy. You know, I, I like can't wait to cat my Monday. Like I used to, I mean, I'd still, if I don't have parameters on my time, I am one of those people who can work around the clock. Okay. I can forget to eat.

I can forget to go to the bathroom. Like, I'm that girl. It's not healthy. Yes. So having kids for me has been, it's been part of my healthy, healthier evolution in terms of work-life balance and understanding what boundaries mean. And I give myself permission. I'm like, we have to be on the field at 530. I need to leave at this time to go pick them up from school and take them there. It's going to take

45 minutes. That calculation has put my whole life in order. And that brings me joy. Yeah. Okay, I'm going to do some rapid fire questions. What is a hill you will die on? Oh my gosh. Is this a serious question or is this an unsurious question? As unsurious as humanly possible. Oh, my God. Oh, my gosh. Come on, Brain. What would I, what's a hill I will die? I die on so many hills at home with my husband. Oh my God. I make the most ridiculous. Are you introverted or extroverted?

I would say that everyone around me thinks I'm extroverted, but I would say my husband thinks it's a lie. My husband's like, you don't even like people. Period. There it is. But I do love people, but you know, in doses. Right, right, right. I do need to like shore up my energy.

So I do like being around people. But I would say I'm an introverted extrovert. Okay. Is that an answer? Is that a real answer? That's what extroverts say to try and balance themselves out. Well, then that's the truth. I'm so sorry. This is buzzing. Are you an introvert or an extrovert? I am extremely introverted. That is a lie. I knew you were going to say that to me.

No one would. I listened to you on your podcast and the way that you have me feeling like it's just me and you in our PJs. Because I don't know any other way to talk to people. I'm sorry, introverts don't talk to people and they don't get on pulpits and they don't thousands of women and people across the globe. Not that we can't talk. We just choose to gate keep our personality in most instances. I am in a pickle, I'll be honest.

Okay. Because I said yes to God. And I just, I said I will do this, but I will only be myself in doing it. And so I really don't know how to show up into spaces without being myself. And so it forces me to put so much of myself out there. that when I am finished, I don't have anything to give. I was going to ask you, do you flatline after? You would not believe it.

Really? You would not believe it. And everybody knows it. Like, people behind the scenes right now. Yo, I will walk to a room when no one could know I was here, and it would be so okay with that. If I could go to Woman Evolve and sit in the back and never come out, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Do you need someone to push you? Do you, like, what's your ritual from going, going from this introverted person that you really truly are to being the powerful woman on the pulpit that we see every day. Because we don't see what's happening behind the scenes. I do a lot. I mean, I get nervous anytime I have to speak until God gives me something to say.

And when God gives me something to say, because I do believe in doing things a certain way, if I could study my notes and give them to someone else and, like, ensure that they would deliver it the way that God gave it to me, I would do that in a heartbeat. Like, I could be a ghost writer. But if someone gets up there and they don't say what I told them to say, I'm like, that is not what we put in the notes.

That's when Joe Jackson comes out. Right. I just want to tell you that no one can deliver your messages like you can. There are a lot of pastors in this world. No one is you. No one lands the plane the way that you do. No one brings the real the way you do. No one brings the funny, the stuff.

style, the bobs. No one does that like you. So I am so, I just want to personally say as a benefactor of you pushing yourself and answering your call, I'm so glad you did. I'm so glad you get on that stage even when it's hard. And I'm so glad that you haven't pulled back too long, too long, because we do need to pull back sometimes. But I just, I really appreciate your ministry. I appreciate your voice. I appreciate who you, who I believe you truly are. Yeah. But even though we don't, because we have to remember. I don't have to remember. I don't. I don't really, this is the first time we've ever met. But I do feel like I know you.

Well, thank you. Well, I feel like I'm confessing my love to you on camera right now. We were terrible at rapid fire. I'm going to try this again. Sorry, sorry, sorry. We're bringing it back. You didn't give you a while you would die on. Everything's fine.

To your coffee. Definitely, definitely matcha. You all have to stop drinking matcha. It's insane. Let me make you some match. You all must stop blending up the grass. We just had this conversation before you got here. It must stop.

You've never had my matcha. I've never had it at all, but what I hear... See, you're a hater for no reason. There's nothing worse than an uneducated hater. A hill... I'm ready to die on the hill that match is nasty. Have ever had it? No.

Somebody bring this matcha out that I have in the back. If you won't have to put a cup of sugar into the match, you don't like it. I don't even put sugar in there. I put honey, honey. Raw? I put honey, honey. Oh, you different. Yes, and it's good, too.

It's good. What it tastes like, Elaine? It tastes like. Do you want to sip? We should force her. I want to know. I take her first sip of matcha on camera and tell me that it is not good. And it matches your outfit.

It matches your outfit. Ain't that terrible. I know. I want to know what it tastes like. If you had to liken it to anything else and if you say wheatgrass, finish. Mine is creamy. It is sweet. And this is the thing, I'm a nerd.

Okay. I'm a journalist. I'm a nerd. I like to study things. Macha is undeniably better for you than, coffee and the caffeine that it does this is not a long this is a long answer i'm sorry we're we i don't know how to give short answers okay it's not my superpower excuse me okay what i wanted to tell you is that back in the day like the history of macha samurai used to use it before they went into

battle because it gives you this like laser focus that is sustainable it doesn't give you these spikes these like crazy. I mean, I act like an actual crackhead. I don't even know if you can't get that on the show. We can't. I'm, I'm, it's not good. People are like, is she okay? Like, what's going on? Like, I'm just, I can't handle coffee. My heart starts

racing. I start talking a mile a minute. Like, ask me your rapid fire questions after I've had coffee. Oh, boom, boom, boom. It's too much. It's too much. You know what I hate about this conversation? There's only one thing. It's been powerful. But the fact that the macho drinkers are going to think that there's somehow samurai warriors at this point.

We're superior. We are superior. I just, I hate to break it to you. So clearly you're a coffee girl. Is that what you're telling me? Tea. There's nothing wrong with tea. Macha is tea.

Yeah, but no, but not like actual. You know what? I'm going to send a box of matcha to your house with the milk, with the honey. I'm going to tell you exactly how. I'm going to send a video of myself. Okay.

Making it, you're going to follow it. You're going to FaceTime me. You're going to take a sip. Okay. I'm going to record it and I'm going to share it on the internet. I cannot wait. I'm going to expose you. Game on.

Okay, that's the follow-up to this podcast. Exactly. And then you're going to be scrolling the internet and you're going to be seeing what people say about you. And it's going to be like, you know what? She didn't know what she was talking about. Okay. Okay.

That's right. Is that how we're ending? We need a better ending. I think it's wrong. I don't know what to say from there. Well, I love you. I love you. And it's okay.

We can fight like sister. We can. We're just that connected. It's already there. It's already there. Now it's just living out in the flesh. And I cannot wait to tell you about this nasty masha. I can't wait.

I quit. I quit. This is over. Okay. Okay. Thank you. If you don't take anything else from this episode, it is my prayer that you will take away this one nugget. It is okay for you to dream more than one dream.

When God has placed many things inside of you, it doesn't always mean. mean that it all has to come out at the same time. But there are moments when what God placed inside of you finds the perfect opportunity, the perfect moment to make a difference in the lives of many, one, but certainly a difference in your life. And so if you're listening to this and you find yourself navigating more than one dream, I want you to know that, girl, we are connected. Same. I have so many dreams and I'm not always sure how God's going to get them all out of me. but one thing I know for sure is that I'm going to take the time to be still enough and present enough to take inventory of my heart so that I can be sensitive to what God is calling me to do next.

And I pray you'll do the same. Holy Spirit, I pray that you would meet my listeners in the place of their greatest uncertainty, that you would allow them to experience your voice, your clarity, your strength and your power as you reveal to them what's next. God, I pray that you would open our hearts to ourselves. Sometimes we're so busy going with the flow of what's happening in our lives that we miss out on the opportunity to see what's happening in our heart. And so God, I just pray that they would find some time at some point this week to say, search my heart, Lord. If there's anything in me that's not like you, convict me so that I can experience transformation.

And if there's something in me that is meant to be a solution in the world, Lord, give me courage, give me wisdom, give me vision that I may execute it for your glory. In Jesus name I pray, amen. I'll see you next week. Evolve.