Woman Evolve with Sarah Jakes Roberts - Recognizing the Need to Labor w/ Stephanie Ike Okafor

Episode Date: October 30, 2024

Hear the story of how SJR and Pastor Stephanie Ike Okafor’s lives first intertwined, long before they evolved into ministry! And get this—since the streets are still talkin' about all things "surrender" (chile, W.E. the streets), these two highlight the tension that comes with the posture of serving while mourning. Yes sis, things get deep! From finding the man of her dreams to writing a book about dreams, Stephanie is spilling all the tea. So, ladies, tap in to unlock the power of visual imagery and spiritual sight by grabbing a copy of her latest release, The Power of Your Dreams, today!  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Not allowing my ambition to outpace my energy has been one of the greatest tools that I have been able to use. I do what I can with what I have and I'm honest about what I can't do. When people start having dreams about floods or chaos or famine, you can't shake it off. So I do believe that the message of the book is very significant for the times that we're in. What's up delegation, it's your girl, SJR, and I am back at the microphone. We are going to have a more traditional episode. Thank you for being so patient with us while we had a departure, a recap, sermons, panels, all of the things, trying to make sure that you are in the loop. It's so important to me. I know so many of you didn't get to attend conference. Others of you were there, but didn't get to experience all of the moments or just wanted to relive them. And then to

hear things from my perspective. So I hope you enjoyed our little conference breakdown. I'm excited about this week's podcast. First of all, it's with someone who I truly love, respect and admire. We're going to get into the story of how I got to know her a little bit later into this episode. But first, let me mind your business. But first, let me let you mind mine. Let me see, I'm recording this late.

I'm sending it over to the team immediately. Last week I was in Los Angeles, or last weekend I was in Los Angeles. We did Hey You. They are the final Hey You of the year for those of you unfamiliar. Hey You is like a bite-sized mini woman evolve experience. Sometimes I'm speaking, sometimes we have a panel, sometimes I have a guest speaker and we do this, I would say it's like every other month.

We do them in Dallas and this year we did them in Dallas and Los Angeles. So we did two in LA and I think we did like three in Dallas. It's free, open to the public. In Dallas we have childcare. Anyways, so it was the last Hey You of the year and we had a panel discussion which was very fun. Intergenerational conversations about sisterhood, building connections and friendships. I believe there's so much power in us having like-minded community, especially as it relates to our faith journey and walk. And yet relationship dynamics can be difficult when you see God doing something in someone's

life that maybe you thought he would do, should do, could do in yours growing with one another. And I was so honored to have my mother in love as a part of the conversation, Tommy Williams and also Dr. Cynthia James, who was just an incredible woman in the ministry, but also just not just like within the context of maybe the Potter's House ministry, but literally in global ministry. She's just such a transcendent voice. And so I love gleaning from women who've gone ahead of us. So let's see. That was pretty much my weekend. Y'all, I want to go see the movie Wild Robot. I want to go see it with Ella. Ella wanted to see it when, I think she was out of school for Indigenous People's Day. We went to go see Wild Robot and I thought I would take the girls to see movies all the

time. So I'm like, here's just another kid movie. The way that movie had me in shambles, I mean, quite literally unwell. It's an incredible movie. I feel like such a child, but about a robot who a goose imprints on the robot. So you know how certain animals, the first contact that they have with anything, with any species, like that's the imprint and that becomes their, you know, context for growing up and adulting their parents. And so the goose imprints onto the robot and the robot is like, you know, very robotical and analytical and like trying to not be emotional and yet it's thrust

into motherhood and has to figure out how to parent this thing. And it's a beautiful journey. I think as a teen mother, seeing that movie, just made me think about my journey, right? So I saw it with Ella, it was fine. So I'm like, I tell the older kids, I'm like, y'all have to go see the movie, Wild Robot. So we go see the movie, Wild Robot,

with the older kids this weekend, and Malachi sends me a text message. Malachi is my son that I had as a teenager. And he was like, there's this part in the movie where the robot's trying to teach the bird how to fly. And of course the robot doesn't know how to fly, but she's doing everything she can to try and give the bird what it needs. And he just told me that it reminded him of this time when he was in school and he was

struggling with math. And I was like, hey it reminded him of this time when he was in school and he was struggling with math. And I was like, hey, you can do anything anyone else can do. You may just have to work. When he's at shambles, shambles. Because who knew what they were doing? I won't turn you to my therapist, but whatever. We went and saw the movie.

It was great. And I'm tired, but not like tired. And I feel like I've said that on this podcast repeatedly, but I've had an amazing, blessed, supernatural year with lots of highs and few lows. And I'm just ready. I feel that end of the year, you know, you get to the end of the year and you're like,

let's wrap this thing on up. I feel the let's wrap this thing on up ministry. So that's where I am. That's how I'm doing. And I just want to thank you all for calling my voicemail and leaving me a message. I truly appreciate it. I love reading your letters, but what I love even more is being able to actually hear your voice.

So yeah, if you didn't hear, you can call and leave a message. And the number for leaving me a message is 214-790-7871. Again, that is 214-790-7871. But if you like, you know what, girl? They might hear my voice. They may remember what I sound like. And you don't want to leave a message. That's fine.

You can still email me at podcast at woman evolve.com. So let's get into this week's mind your business question. Hi, Sarah is Letitia. I have a question. Actually, I have to. I had the opportunity for the first time to attend woman evolve and I had a great time. But honestly, I kept wondering, how are you doing all of these things? How are you pulling all of this off? You're in school, you're a mom, you're a wife. Let

me see if I can run down some of the things just off the top of my head. You're a pastor's wife, you're a pastor of multiple locations, you're an entrepreneur, you're an author, you have all the things going on. And I myself is in school, going back for my second master's in therapy. And I work part time. I've got some kids and a husband too. And so I'm just trying to figure out, how are you doing all these things?

And then in the middle of the conference, I recognized that you were also speaking at the young girls event that was there as well. And I'm just like, when is she resting? How is this working? My question is just how are you managing? Are you okay? And just how are you doing all the things?

Would love some tips in that space. And also super curious to know what you're going back to school for. Alright, that's it. Take care sis. I love what you're doing. You've been such a blessing. And I hope you're able to answer my questions. It's been a while since I've answered a question that has to do with just like my life and my rhythm. And so I just want to send this reminder that like no matter how much a person seems like they're checking all the boxes, you never know which balls they are dropping in which boxes are not being checked. So yes, I am all

of those things that you named. I'm a wife, I'm a mother, I'm a podcast host, I'm an author, I'm a speaker. We have the opportunity to host very large scale events that require planning and logistics for over a year in order to pull them off. You know, we do tours. I'm just now ending the Waman Evolve Book Club just because my plate is really full and we are transitioning our church.

And so yes, my plate and within that church, there are many different dynamics of what all goes into creating an environment that allows people to feel seen, loved, and have an encounter with God. So yes, my plate is very full. However, I'm recording this podcast literally, like I recorded the intro part in my office, but then I had to go somewhere. So I'm like, I'll take my laptop and my mic and I will record the rest in the carpool line. I am literally in the parking lot of my kid's school recording this because I just take work with me

everywhere I go. I travel around from spot to spot that I have to go through throughout my day with my laptop. My kids are still in a lot of extracurricular activities and it used to be where I would like drop them and go home, but I've taken to like dropping them and taking my laptop so that I can do my homework in the car. So I try to maximize every minute that I have.

I don't know how I have managed to keep up with the health and wellness routine because most of the time whenever I am pursuing, you know, something like going back to school or I'm working on a big project. My health and wellness is usually the first thing to go. But I feel like I'm actually my as much as I have going on right now, my season is actually a little bit slow in comparison to book tour and book launching in which I had crazy mornings.

So I mentioned that I'm closing or you know stopping the woman involved book club which was really hard because we have created so much community there in the over oh my gosh three years it's been like three years since we've had the book club and I know so many of those women like we're getting on zoom and eating and kids are in the background and talking about books and some anyways, I'm sorry. I say that to say I had to close it because I just don't have the capacity to read the books and read my schoolwork. And so one of the things that I am learning to do is adjust my ambition to my energy. Many times we have ambition for things that we don't really have the energy to facilitate

And we end up falling for this trap that if I don't do everything right now Then I'm gonna miss my moment, but I have really settled into This reality that like God would not give me a vision that he would not allow To fit within the pace in the context of my life he would not allow to fit within the pace in the context of my life. God knows that I will sacrifice, I will surrender. I will do whatever is necessary to make whatever vision he is giving me that's going to allow his light, his love, his message for people to shine through me. I'll do whatever it takes to do that.

But not allowing my ambition to outpace my energy has been one of the greatest tools that I have been able to use. And so I do what I can with what I have and I'm honest about what I can't do. And I try to express that to my team as well. Like this is the goal. Like maybe I want to launch a YouTube series

that focuses on dating next year. But also I don't want to do it at the expense of you not sleeping at night of us being overextended. If I need to let go of something that we're currently doing in order to lay hold of what it is that I see as a vision. I am willing to do that because I do not want to become so ambitious that I am no longer sensitive to the needs of my team longer sensitive to the needs of my team, sensitive to the needs of my body. There have been times where I'm like, listen, I'm going to be late turning the podcast around.

So it may be late hitting the actual feed. So I have to be realistic. Those are some tools that have helped me. And I hope that those are things that are helping you as you're looking to balance it all and figure out what all is going to take for you to be who God has called you to be. Take a deep breath, prioritize. There's nothing more important to me than the love of God

flowing through me to my husband, to my children. Well, let me fix that. That's probably true what I said was true, but I need to do a better job at like letting the love of God first fill me before it flows through me. A lot of people were flows, but were not filled. So I'd like for it to fill me so that my husband and my children can be in the overflow

of where I have been filled. And once I've been able to accomplish that, allowing that flow to touch, you know, my team wherever I'm working to allow that flow to touch the work that God has graced me to do the books, the messages that I speak. And so allow yourself to be field, allow yourself to then overflow. And when you feel yourself being depleted, like I don't have enough field in order to flow, then take a beat and figure out what it is that you need.

I hope that helps. It felt like a very long answer. Evolve. So we're about to have a conversation with Pastor Stephanie E.K. Okafor, who is a gift to many in the world, quite literally the world. I have been honored to just see the hand of God on her life in a way that wasn't even platform driven. I saw her being an usher or a gatekeeper as they are called at one Los Angeles and this was almost 10 years ago.

And in those 10 years, I've really seen her continue to lean in and follow the voice of God. And I've been blown away by just, I don't even want to call it transformation because transformation makes it seem like you go from one thing to another thing, but I believe this is always who she has been. And I am intrigued by her. I am intrigued by the way God uses her, by the way she translates what God is saying into the earth and into the world. I love her so much as a person.

She is a light, she is joy, and yet she has such incredible depth and wisdom. And so it was my honor and privilege to sit down with her, just to talk about our life. I will tell you, so she came to Walmany Ball of 2024 and she texted me I think before, I think it was before she came. It may have been when she arrived and she was like, Hey FL, which is people at one call me FL.

And she was like, Hey FL, I'm going to be there for conference, I'm going to be praying and let me know if there's anything I can do to serve. And you have to know that when Stephanie says, let me know if there's anything that I can do to serve. And you have to know that when Stephanie says, let me know if there's anything that I can do to serve, that she literally means like, do you want me to pack the girls snacks? Do you want me to run errands for the house? Like whatever I can do to serve, you just let me know.

And there were two things that immediately came to mind. One thing that came to mind that I was like, oh my gosh, I could really use your support to do this. Because as the Mind Your Business note mentioned, I was trying to be at Wal-Menevolve and Girl Evolve and 18 other things all at the same time. And so she filled in for me to do a transition moment. And then I usually don't preach before we close out conference,

but God had given me this message that just happened to have layers to it. And I was supposed to be hosting the body panel, which you all may have heard. If you're a first time listener, go back and listen to the body panel for, no, it wasn't the body panel, the coed panel from Wal-Meneval of 24.

And so I had tap Stephanie literally Friday night after Pastor T. Renee Glenn had us all laid out on the floor. I text my assistant I was like, Can you see if pastor Steph can do the panel for me in the morning because I wanted to spend some time sitting with that word and she came through and it was like exactly what God wanted. She was so masterful and moderating the panel and she just, she just moved the conversation forward but allowed certain subject matter to really take root and to have expansion and moderating the panel. And she just moved the conversation forward,

but allowed certain subject matter to really take root and to have expansion and extension. So I think the world of her, I think you are going to as well. Some of the things that we talk about in our conversation is her being from Nigeria and witnessing faith through the lens of Nigerian faith and spirituality versus Westernized spirituality and faith.

And you guys know, I'm really curious just about different people's experience with faith. We talk about just some judgment within the body of Christ and what we can do to address it, acknowledge it, continue to stand in the face of it. And then, oh my goodness, to stand in the face of it. And then, oh my goodness, I think one of my favorite things. So when I first had a woman, first listen to the conversation.

When I first had one involved, she was on the singles panel. Now she's a whole wife. How do you know he's the one we we talk about all of the things you're going to love it. I cannot wait for you all to get to know her a little bit better. So introducing to some and presenting to others Pastor Stephanie E.K. Okafor. I feel like I should start off by first though saying thank you for just stepping in and helping me at woman evolve unexpectedly. Do you want to talk about how you became the co-host, the co-founder, the vice president of woman evolve with one text message, your whole life became just in service to the

movement. How did you feel? What was that like? It was incredible. And you know, it was so crazy when I was packing for women evolve, I'm packing for comfort, you know, and like right at the end, I could just feel like the Holy Spirit said, just throw that jacket in there. And shout. No, but it was amazing. I'm so, I'm always so honored and to glean from you near and far, and just to see your heart for women and just how, like, I think so many times I think people can get caught up with like the number of women that

show up and it's like, Oh my gosh, we have 40,000 women. But it's like, these are 40,000 women who are going through something who need hope, who need, you know, encouragement, who need the word of God, who need to know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. And to see it from that perspective, I think it's so humbling just to see your stewardship, your heart for women. If you've always had a heart for people, and just to see how God has expanded that

to accommodate all these thousands, and if not millions of women, who God has entrusted to your to your leadership. It's I, you know, I don't take it for granted. It's a blessing. I think every time I ask God, I'm like, are you sure if you want me to do this, if you want me to do it, if it's your will, pass it. But if you still want me to do it,

I will stand up to, you know, as you were talking and just reminding me. So P.T. and I are going to be celebrating 10 years of marriage. And that means about 10 years ago, I met you. Yeah. And let me for those of you who don't know Pastor Stephanie E.K. Okafor and I go way back. Way back. So when I moved from Texas to Los Angeles and I was still kind of finding my way at one, I can't remember.

Did you give me a note or a letter? How did you reach out to me? It was so hilarious. So I was serving as an usher and you were going to the restroom and I was going to the restroom. And so it was in the restroom. And I remember just like, I was like, you know, Hey, Pastor Sarah, I don't even think you were, you were calling yourself Pastor.

I think I say hi. But I was like, Hey, if you ever need help with anything, like I'm here to serve, like if there's anything I could do, like I would more than love to. And then you, you mentioned like, oh, we should do lunch. And I was like, okay, cool. And that was, yeah, the rest was history after that. And it wasn't like one of those like LA, we should do lunch. And I was like, okay, cool. And that was, yeah, the rest was history after that. And it wasn't like one of those like LA, we should do lunches.

Like we actually met. We did, we went to the coral tree in Encino. And I can remember telling PT, like, this is, I am going to go to lunch with one of the members from one. And he was like, huh? Because I am not, anyone who knows me, knows me, knows that. I'm not like the, I don't just randomly go out to eat with people.

But I think that there was just something about Stephanie that I felt like, you know what? I just want to get to know her. I'm new in this city. And from that point, I felt like God just continued to highlight you. And then we were all going out of town for a conference and we needed a midweek speaker and what happened

from there? It was how everything aligned, you know, because I used to, back then I had like two of my friends, we used to pray together every single day. And I remember one time I was telling them, I was like, God told me he's going to release me to speak in August. They were like, girl, you are really tripping. But I remember when PT says me that text and he was like, hey, you know, can you speak for midweek?

And that was going to be August 5th of that year. And he was like, and it was just the encouragement. He was like, you know what, you have your book out, push the book, do a book signing, do whatever you want to do. And I was just like, how did they trust me to do this? And that was my first time ever. And I can never forget that day

because there was the child part of me who, all the things I've heard over the years I wanted to do. So I was like, turn to your neighbor just so I could say it. But no, it was, it was so beautiful. And I think for me, it was a moment of being seen and know. What do you feel like you know about being in ministry and utilizing the revelations that God has given you to serve other people now that you didn't know then? I think what has evolved for me back then, before I got into ministry, I was serving

as a gatekeeper, usher, all the things. And what I learned as an usher was how to see people, because you're welcoming people in every Sunday, every midweek, and you're seeing people beyond what they're... Once people walk into the church, they have a whole different persona. When they're walking in, you see their attitude, you see their heaviness, you see all of that. And for me, being positioned as an usher, I was really like in the place of always praying just to understand like what people are going through.

God, is there any way that I can be a source of encouragement? Is there a word I could share with someone as they're walking into the church just to let them know that you see them? So I learned how to see people in ministry and understanding that the heart of ministry is really about God's people. But I think for me, what has evolved is understanding

how much Jesus cares about his sheep and the weight of responsibility that comes with ministry. Because in the beginning, like you can, you're excited, you're like, oh, this is amazing, you know? But as, you know, time goes on, and even in my walk with the Lord is like, no, this is a responsibility. Everything I do, everything, you know,

not just what I say, how I live my life, because that, everything, you know, not just what I say, how I live my life because that should match, you know, and how I consecrate myself before the Lord to hear for his people, just the weight of responsibility and not to play with that, not to minimize that and to always be aware of that burden. That's so good. Are you the type of person who felt like, oh, I always knew that I was going to be doing this or do you feel like you stumbled into it? It's like a mix of both because as a kid, when I was much younger, I used to have this

teddy bears and I would minister to. Come on somebody. First sermon, I could never forget in my head was to my dog. And I had like, I have my dog on the leash so he don't have he can't run anywhere. And I had this board and I was like, you know, why the man is our dog is man's best friend, because dog backwards is God. Come on somebody. I had this whole thing. So there was a part of me that was like,

oh yeah, let me share the word of God. That was not the word of God. But then why I say it's a mix of both is because as I got older, I actually wanted to be a lawyer. I wanted to be a criminal lawyer. And that was not the path I had in mind at all. I think being more exposed, my family is made up of business people, politicians. And so being exposed to that growing up, I wanted to be a criminal lawyer. In my mind, it was how to, just even growing up in just Nigeria,

seeing what happened to my dad and how you have people who are committing crime and they're just going away scot-free or the wrong people are being convicted. And so I wanted to help in that way, but I didn't have ministry in mind. The older I got, I think that voice or that desire just kind of faded away.

I was creating my own plan for my life. And so I think ministry snuck up on me in that way, but the seed of it had been there when I was a kid. And so now you are definitely in God's plan for your life. And I'm wondering, Surrender's our theme of the year. It's what we've been talking about. What did you have to surrender in order to step into God's plan for your life?

Oh child, everything. And what I mean by that is, you know, there's one thing to like create a desire for your life. And it's another thing when you create, not create a desire for your life. And it's another thing when you create, not create a plan rather, and when you create this plan that you love in your mind, you know, it's like, oh, I love the direction of where this is heading. You know, I love the idea of just being in business. I love the idea of doing things this way. And I think when it comes to ministry, ministry is literally an everyday thing for me.

Because when I'm in prayer, I'm not praying just for myself or my family. I have a prayer book with lists of names, lists of people as the Lord reveals to me, countries as the Lord reveals to me. And it has become, you know, it just took over my life in the best way now, you know, but I think giving up the idea of life that I desired and to mourn that and step into God's

plan, but to also recognize that this was really what it's all about. Like this is the truth of my life. And I think surrender is a daily thing because sometimes I believe that even when I don't feel like myself, it's like I'm surrendering to who God says I am. And sometimes it feels like you're acting your life, you know, because there are days when you're just like, I'm done. I just want to be in a hole somewhere and hide from everyone. And I'm very introverted at nature. So being around people, all of that, it's not like a personality for me, right? And I think for me, it's just a daily

walk of, okay, whatever the Lord requires of me, I will do it. Whatever the Lord seeks of me, I would do it. And that's my posture. There are times that obedience has been painful. There are times that saying yes to the God thing, I don't understand it. There are times that even in ministry, the day of woman evolve, the day that I was going to do the transition moment from Priscilla Shire to the surrender moment, I get a phone call that morning and my cousin and my cousin's husband is in the ICU that he wasn't responding that morning. And I remember just, I was like, God, what, like, what is happening? These are, they're very close to me.

My cousin's like my big sister and they're like, Stephanie, pray. And I remember literally like as I'm getting ready, I get this phone call and I'm like, God, what do we do with this? And he says, surrender to this moment, I get this phone call. And I'm like, God, what do we do with this? And he says, surrender to this moment. I have this under control. Do like focus on the assignment, focus on what you're doing in this moment. And we prayed and I remember the Lord just showing me like, this, he's like, almost like he's calling him home. And we didn't want to accept that, you know, he was still plugged up and we're praying about it. And I saw it so clearly what the Lord was about to do.

But then it's to surrender that Lord, as I'm serving you, I'm also mourning, you know? And so the dynamics of ministry, everything I feel like it is literally my life laid before the Lord. Oh man, oh, and now there's like 18 things I want to ask you. I had a question in mind, navigating the reality of just the opportunity rather for distraction.

Even if it is not an all distraction isn't negative, anything that distracts you from the moment that God has you standing in as a distraction. Sometimes it could be children, it could be family, it could be a situation that you don't have control of. How do you navigate not feeling like you aren't letting other people down or recognizing that like I have to release myself from this expectation in order to step into this mandate? Yeah, you know, one thing that I believe helps me is just recognizing that what I cannot touch, where I cannot be, what I cannot speak to, the Lord can advocate for me in those ways. And so even in the moment of knowing that, okay, there is an assignment I have to serve. At the same time, you know, my cousin is in the hospital,

they're not sure what's happening to her husband. It's better if Jesus is in their presence than if it's just me in their presence. And so it's knowing that Lord, I can't be there right now, I'm going to get there, but while I'm not there, I trust that you are there. And I think it's the same thing, even with having now a toddler,

but even having a newborn when I was traveling and doing ministry and the times where I have to go and preach. And she might be maybe in the hotel with her dad, you know, my husband. But it's like navigating like, I miss her. I want to be near her. You know, is she crying? Does she eat? Is she doing this? But knowing that she's in safety and you know what?

My husband is there. Even if he falls asleep, the Lord is there. So I think it's navigating those moments to know that I'm not doing life by myself and not just, not just even with my community, but I'm doing life with God. And he can step into the moments that I cannot touch. Okay, so I want to ask you quick, cause I want to talk about you being a wife, being a mother, which is like,

even though you've been a wife and a mother for years now, you know, I just remember you making us watch Mulan in the movie theater. Like I just, I just, you know, there are just things about you that are so just like, like you're not my little girl. Like you're not my biological little sister, but it's almost like I cannot believe that this is like a full woman with a whole husband and a baby and like this incredible impactful

ministry. Like it is appropriate you deserve all of those things but I just can see it's just like being in the back room just being like what is happening right now but wait okay so I want to ask you I'm gonna get into that but I want to ask you as a Nigerian native Nigerian immigrant how do you see Nigerian Christianity and spirituality in comparison or contrast to Western Christianity? Oh, that's a good one. I know in like totally separate direction, but I feel like I have to ask you this because I will ask about balancing and marriage and all that stuff. You know, growing up, when it came to growing up in the faith in Nigeria, it was, it brought

you closer. It like the, the message, everything was about you, your life in God, you know, your life with God, your life through the word of God, the principles of God, the ways of God. So everything it's teaching you, it's speaking to, you know, who you are as a person, it's speaking to your soul, it's speaking to your spirit, but everything was to see your life in the context of life with God. And I think the difference from, you know, like Christianity in Nigeria and in the Western culture is that in the West, there is more of a focus on self and not God centered. So it's more self centered. It's like how to be a better person versus how to be better in God, how to live the life God desires for you, how to, you know, be, live, surrender to God.

So it has this focus on self. And I think the difference with that is anyone can teach you how to be a better person if that is the only message. A Hindu can teach you that, a Muslim can teach you that, an atheist can teach you that. And so I think that was one of the differences I noticed in some of how Christianity is viewed

from a Western perspective. Okay, so I've heard this, I see this on social media a lot and I hate to be like the kid in the question that's like asking like a dumb question or a silly question. But I think I wrestle with this concept because I am wondering, like if a message is ultimately like about maybe where you are and what got you there, but then also, you know, this is where God can meet you. This is how God has dealt with

this in this past in the past. Is that not still self-centered? So I think, you know, it has to do with balance. I think why there is such a, there's like an emphasis on this like self-centered gospel is because of the imbalance of the message. And so if most of the messages I'm hearing has to do with me, me, me, me, me, then it now becomes this like, it's so like, it's kind of like, the magnitude of it is like, Oh, this is only focusing on self, you know, because at the end of the day, I think about the scripture when it says, you know, bring your whole body, your whole soul, your whole spirit blameless before God. And so there's the dynamics of who we are. There's a part,

we have to understand how to be better as parents. I think even the book of Proverbs is full of wisdom that teaches you things that have to deal with your personal life as, you know, in business, as a son, as a daughter, you know, with your family relations and all of that. But I think where the issue stems from is the imbalance that is perceived that comes from like the Western culture. I'm really, I think one, because I want to be a good steward of my role and my influence and responsibility. But I also balance that with the reality that I know that

because of my own insecurities, that I am susceptible to like being impressed by anyone's standards. So it's like, okay, if this is the standard, then I need to do this, then I need to do this. But then I also know there's like, you know what, you need to make sure you're hearing from God and you're getting conviction about what it is that you need to speak. But I just want to be a good steward. And so I'm curious, I'm always curious about that because people talk about it, but then there's like, I don't know. I feel like I hear messages that are talking about like, you need to do this,

like you need to do this. You need to do that. I'm like, that still feels like it's bringing it back to the person too. And I also think that too, there is, I think even in the times that we're living in, there is such a heightened judgmental nature coming out of Christians that is really sad. I think we forget the fact that diversity is like the nature of the kingdom of God, that we are all diverse in our giftings, we're diverse in our approach, we're diverse in our anointings. And I think that sometimes just because a person may not do something the way you do it, now there is this judgmental approach. I think about like the prodigal son, the issue was never between him and his father, it was him and

his brother. You know, the brother is the one having an issue with him, like, oh, why would you do this for him? And he, you know, he has spent his money on prostitutes and blah, blah, blah. The father never had an issue with him. And I think that's what's happened today in our, in just in the faith, there's so much division within ourselves because of how we view ourselves and not looking at it it through the lens of God. So I've also seen that, you know, so I think there's just this very judgmental, divisive nature coming out of Christianity and people are not really hearing to hear the message,

they're hearing to criticize the message. Criticize, yeah. Yeah, you know, I just, I wanna get it right, you know what I mean? criticize the message. Criticize, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I just, I want to get it right. You know what I mean? And I feel like there's such an, there's so many different styles, so many different methods that God's using to deliver the same message. And I do feel like some people are going to water, some people are going to plant, you

know what I mean? And I think to respect each of those roles is really critical. But I'm also, I think that's part of what God is dealing with me right now is just really protecting the purity of my heart while also staying open to the ways that God wants to grow me and my own knowledge and my own wisdom and insight. And so I'm always like balancing that. And I think the worst thing that could ever happen is for me to feel like, you know what? I have knowingly gone against what it is that is right and true and response was it relates

to what God has given me. So I'm curious about that. As you have become, I mean, a force within ministry, within global ministry, what has been the most surprising thing that you have learned? How God partners with us. I think that has been really shocking. This year, I think I've done the most traveling.

You have been literally a world tour. Taylor Swift, Stephanie, EK, Beyonce, world tour. My girl posted she was going to Germany in November. I said, ma'am, you better have a world tour and not like one spot in Germany, just in case y'all thought it was a one-off, my girl is going to many places in Germany. No, but it's been, I think it's both been humbling and also recognizing the need to labor because of the grace that is on my life.

I think it's one thing. You see that it's all grace, because there are times that I will listen to somebody and I'm like, wow, that person really has the Bible down pat, you know. But when I see how God has partnered with me in ministry, something that really stood out to me, I was ministering somewhere and I was so exhausted. I was just I didn't have it in me. To the point where I was like, Lord, like, I don't want to let you down. I don't want to let your

people down. And I just feel like I just don't have anything in me. And he just says, but I want you to show up. And I didn't even like, even the word of my God, I don't really like I feel like I should let the pastors know that, you know what, maybe I made a mistake in saying yes, and maybe I was not supposed to do this, maybe I was just supposed to rest. And the Lord was like, No, I want you to show up like never forget, we do we are in this together. And that day was most likely one of the most powerful services that I have ever seen in this year. It was the there was just such a breakout of the Holy Spirit and deliverance that took place.

So literally, so I like so he gives me a scripture and I just I'm speaking, teaching on the scripture in the moment, and the Holy Spirit just starts telling me things to call out. And as I'm calling it out, He is delivering people as everything in the mansion. It was like an outbreak of the Holy Spirit. I was in tears at the end of the night. I literally, after the service, I run to my husband and I was crying because it just reminded me of like literally, I am nothing without Christ. There was none of what happened that day could have happened if God was not in partnership with me. And so what that is

showing me now is there is a grace that is allowing this to happen, but how do I labor for that grace? How do I serve the grace that is on my life? And so just like what you were saying earlier, you know, making sure like, God, I'm gonna garden this purity, being a student of the word, being a student of prayer, and just really bringing myself before the Lord,

that Lord in everything that I do, I wanted to point people back to you because you are the one driving this. It has nothing to do with me. It has nothing to do with anything that how I sound. It has everything to do with the grace on my life. And so I need to labor before that grace, like labor, you know, in service to that grace rather. Well, okay, so now it's like, do I want to talk about you running into the arms of the man of your dreams?

And then we talk about dreams? Or do we want to talk about dreams and then the man of your, did God tell you in a dream that the man in your dreams was going to be your dreams and then we'll talk about the dreams? Oh, that's good. We could go any way, any way. dreams and then we'll talk about the dreams. We could go any way, anyway. How did you know he was the one?

Because last, okay, let's be clear. Was it 2018? The very first WomniBoff conference, Pastor Stephanie was on the singles panel. We were talking about singles and dating and she was moderating that for me. And now she's a whole wife. I have confided in you about some foolish people in my past. I can never forget. There was a conversation I had with you and I was talking to you about this guy and how and you know, you were just like, no, no, this is what are we talking about?

And I was like, yeah, but you know, I don't want to be in a relationship that feels boring. And then you said, Oh, you know what's exciting? Heartbreak, cheating. Oh, you want to have fun. Never forget that you said boring is stability. Boring is consistency. That conversation shifted so much. I was like, Oh yeah, that's so boring.

I'm like, I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom.

I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. that you said boring is stability, boring is consistency. And that conversation shifted so much. I was like, oh yeah, that's real. It's so true though, because I think that there's this idea of like, if I settle into this nice guy, this respectful guy, this guy who's going to be faithful and a provider and then like, what are we going to do every day?

And then it's like, if you are in purpose, like purpose has so much excitement in it. Like if you were going to pursue whatever it is that God has called you to do, there's going to be plenty of warfare. There's going to be plenty of room for breaking down when you get finished fighting life. When you come home, you don't want to have to fight too. And so boring, boring is under life. When you come home, you don't want to have to fight too. And so boring, boring is underrated. I'm just letting you know. How'd you know? How'd you know that you had met your man?

Oh man. Okay. So this is so crazy. The day, the day before we met. So I'm in the car, one of my best friends and we were talking about, there was this guy who I was talking to, and it just wasn't working out. And one of the things that he said to me was, you intimidate me. And I was telling my best friend, I was like, man, I can't believe, this guy has, his life is going great for him.

Why would I in any way intimidate him? And we just talked about it. I was like, you know what? God just knows the right person who will all make sense. The next day she's with me when I met my husband, it was a baby shower and they were like, hey, just bring anyone. No one is coming, X, Y, and Z.

So I was like, hey, do you want to go? So we go to the baby shower and he walks up to me. And the first thing he says to me is, you know, when you meet, when you meet people, do they tell you they're intimidated? Or do you have you met guys who tell you they're intimidated by you? And I was like, so at one point I was like, yes, like, oh, and then he's like, oh, so you've been talking to boys and that just captured my attention. And she looked at me, she said, Oh, Stephanie's been gone.

She is gone. She's done for. But that moment we just started talking and we were like, but it felt like I've known him for such a long time. It was just like two people who like, because I mean, in marriage you become one, but it was almost as though I was talking to like the other half of me and never knew that person existed, You know, everything just our conversation about life, our conversations about God. And I remember like literally texting

my mom on that boat. And I was like, I think I just met my husband. I think she knows I would never say that like I'm the person that will take the most time like let's really figure out what this is. But there was something about him that instantly felt like home. And then, you know, the Lord just handled it. OK, so I'm curious because you are a powerful woman walking in purpose. I think traditional, maybe even from what I've heard, you know, I was torn from my ancestors, but I am like 60% Igbo, but we can get into that another time. You know, that there can be a lot of, or like maybe patriarchy, I guess, in Nigerian culture.

Certainly we have them here in Western cultures. And I think that there is this fear for women who desire to be all of who God has called them to be, to walk in their purpose, to walk in their power. Like, obviously you're proving, I feel like my life has been evidence as well, that you can be a woman who walks in her purpose, walks in her power, and have a man who supports and covers that without trying to suppress it. So maybe just like what words of advice would you give to a woman who's maybe concerned about that? Like, should I shrink?

Should I diminish? Or like, how do I let him lead when I'm used to leading myself when it is time to make that transition? Yeah, I think even like in marriage, because I do believe in, you know, it's just like even in a company, if you have two CEOs, it's going to be very hard to make decisions

and move forward, you know? And so I think there is an order of leadership in a home that can be healthy when it's submitted under God. And so even in my home, like I healthy when it's submitted under God. And so even in my home, I have always been very independent growing up. And so it did take some getting used to, to not always feel like I need to step into this masculine role and things like that.

But letting my husband lead and just realizing there's an order that can be so beautiful when it's surrendered under God. There are times where even as a Nigerian, I didn't want to marry a Nigerian for those reasons because I heard so many. I've seen it. I heard a lot of the stereotypes.

I've seen it in family members. I was like, Oh, no. But what I learned with my husband is before he's Nigerian, he's a child of God. And so when someone is submitted under God, the cultural stereotypes and the fears and the X, Y, and Z, that is submitted and surrendered before God. And so even one of the things that we talked about when we were dating, and he was telling me, he was like, you know, I've been praying about you and God has shown me who you are. And you know, as we kind of like take things further, he recognizes the responsibility he has to make sure that what God the word of God concerning me does not fall to the

ground. And so I believe that that is the beauty of leadership leading in a manner that, Hey, my wife, my family are going to be all that they're called to be, you know, this home, we're going to be, we're going to die empty, you know, before the Lord. And so not to fear that, but I think beyond, you know, the stereotypes of whatever people might hear about cultures and different things, is this a person who loves the Lord and is surrendered to the word of God, because that's really what matters. Oh, I feel like that's such a beautiful answer. And I think for me, I echo all of those things. I would say that I also had to kind of check myself about the pride connected

to my hyper independence. Yeah, because the pride and ego connected with my hyper independence did not make me a good fit for partnership. It's like if you're going to be in partnership, you can't also pride yourself on be doing everything on your own. And so I think that as much as I am a woman who has purpose, a woman who walks in her power and wants to give birth to everything that God has placed on the inside of me, I also recognize that one of the things that God has ordained is for me to be his wife and to lean into that and to trust that. And it's a beautiful journey. Once you learn how to let go of control, once you no longer feel like it's like suppressing you or oppressing you. Like

I want us to enter into our princess era. Like did nobody go through hell and back in these relationships to then also try to be the man and the woman in the real. I need you to lean back and let a king be a king in this thing. And I think too, like we, we under, we undermine the fact, like becoming a wife, it's, there's a shedding that takes place, you know, and the shedding is not you being suppressed. It's literally so that you can blossom. Because I think like even as a mom, you know, becoming a mom, my priority shifted, my responsibility shifted. It's not everything I can do, it's not every way I can be.

That does not suppress me. That adds value to me because now there's this whole life, you know, that I'm responsible for. And I think the same thing even in becoming a wife. Like, yes, things might not look exactly the same, but you are not exactly the same. You have a whole partner in your life. And it's a beautiful, beautiful thing.

I love it. Okay, I want to talk about your book, The Power of Your Dreams, and of all the things that you could write about, because I think from the time of your first release to this book, it feels like so much of your life has changed in transition, which means that God has shown you so much. Why this book?

Why right now? Yeah. You know, initially I was writing something else. Okay. I remember being in the process. I was writing, you know, like people who might be familiar with my story know like I'm very big when it comes to forgiveness and, you know, just keeping a pure heart before God. And so I was writing this book about forgiveness and just seeing the health, the life of like a life of forgiveness through the story of Jesus and Judas. And when I was

working on that, I remember the Lord just interrupted the whole thing. And he's like, I want you to write a book on dreams. And I never thought I would write a book on dreams. I thought dreams would be great as a sermon, as a great message, as a series. And I was like, a book on dreams? That's interesting. But when he showed it to me, you know, why? Because even from my life, like when I encountered God, the first time I encountered God, after that, one of the most consistent ways that he's been speaking to me had been through dreams.

And something he taught me was the power of visual imagery. Even when we look at the book of Revelation, the book could have been given to John in any other way. God could have spoken it to him. It could have been an impression on his heart, but God showed him. And I think when we visual imagery, it shifts how our dynamic because it penetrates our imagination. It penetrates how we see life. And so sometimes it's different. There's a difference between someone telling you like, hey man, God has called you to be this powerful speaker. When you see yourself speaking

and you've never done that before, you see yourself moving in a way that you know the hand of God is on you. It's hard for you to shake that away from your life than someone just telling it to you. And so imagery conveys a message in a way that it sticks with you, it has an impression on you. And so even when it comes to the dream realm,

which is really sight, you know, like spiritual sight, there is a conviction it brings to the heart. And even in the times we're in, so there's a personal, there's a personal side of it with how God wants to communicate to people, the things that God wants to show people about their lives and their journeys and where he's taking them, when he's leading them, direction, warning, all those things. But I think also from a corporate perspective, we are living in a time where I believe the

world as we know it has shifted. It hasn't been fully revealed to be that, but behind the scenes, there are so many changes happening right now. And one of the ways that God is going to prepare people is to show them the signs of the times so that there is like a deep conviction. When people start having dreams about floods or chaos or famine, you can't shake it off. Now you're having these questions about God, what is happening? What is to come? And I believe it's going to prepare people.

So I do believe that the the message of the book is very significant for the times that we are in. I think the million dollar question that everyone has probably asked you is how do you know when a dream comes from God? Yeah. One of the things I teach on in the book, and it's layered because to know anything, to discern the voice of God in any way is to first know his voice. And that really, and one of the ways we become mature in knowing the voice of God is to know his voice in the Bible. Because when you understand how he speaks in his word,

you can understand the kinds of messages that he would give to you. But the other way that is also very practical is something, one of the concepts in the book is the fruit reveals the seed. And what that means is if you're not a farmer, even if you're a farmer, if you just go to an empty land, there's no way you're going to know what was planted in that land, you

know, until the trees begins to, you know, the seed breaks in, the tree begins to sprout, and now the fruits come forth. So if I see an orange fruit, I would know that, oh, they planted an orange seed in this land. And so with dreams, there is a seed of a message that is planted in a person. But the fruit of that message reveals who planted it. So if I have a dream and, you know, the fruit of it is me becoming anxious and paranoid and fearful. That didn't come from God, because what comes from him carries his scent.

It carries his fragrance. it carries his nature. And so if I have a dream and I start becoming, you know, paranoid about people, oh, this person, like, my response to the dream is very negative when it concerns people and X, Y, and Z, then that didn't come from God, because God also knows where you are in your maturity, and He's not going to give you a dream that will actually cause you to take few steps back in your maturity and he's not going to give you a dream that will actually cause you to take a few steps back in your growth. And so from a very practical perspective, but also I encourage people, you have to know the voice of God to discern his voice and really have an active relationship with the Holy Spirit. Okay. So let me see. I want to ask you,

I have two more questions in no more time. So I'm going to see if I can marry them together. Is it possible to interpret your own dreams? Does the book tell you how to interpret your dreams, even if those dreams are nightmares? Yeah. So interpretation, one of the things I teach on this how interpretation of dreams is not a gift in of itself. The gift is in the Holy Spirit. And so when you have the Holy Spirit, you have the gift of interpretation.

And so what I do in the book is offer guides. So there are certain questions and even those questions. So for example, like, what was the source of the dream? And so but I not even source what was the the tone of the dream? And so, but not even source, what was the tone of the dream? And so, or the symbols in the dream, rather. And so, I teach on like what different symbols and dreams look like. So, tone is a symbol, people are symbols. If you heard a name, it's a symbol. What was the activity happening in the dream? That's a symbol. And so, really giving people just a guide to break down different questions that you can ask in prayer, different questions that you can just spend time with and really to discern

like what all took place in this dream. And through those questions, many people have been telling me like, man, I'm having like I'm interpreting my dreams a lot better with God and X, Y, and Z, but nightmares as well, because sometimes what people call nightmares might actually be warning dreams that they want to ignore. And so if there's something happening in a person's life that the Lord wants to warn them about, or there are doors that they open in their lives

and they start seeing these weird, you know, evil looking creatures in their dreams, it may not be a nightmare, but more so God trying to reveal to you that there is something lingering in your life because of a door that you opened. But then also, if it's just a flat-out nightmare, one of the things I've noticed is where, when kids in particular deal with nightmares a lot,

is because there is no covering. So maybe the parents are not believers, is where when kids in particular deal with nightmares a lot is because there is no covering. So maybe the parents are not believers. And so the enemy has easy access to them to plant those thoughts and to plant, you know, whatever images that they're seeing to cause fear in their life from a very young age. And so nightmares are also still revealing something,

you know, it revealing that there is the lack of a covering because something is given access for the enemy to plant, you know, the images that people are saying. And so I always encourage people write down every dream. Don't just, you know, shun the dream and say, oh, this doesn't matter. Because one of the things is if you do have a warning dream and you call it a nightmare and you ignore it, then your inactivity is agreement with the plans of the enemy. And so there are things that you want to make sure that you're always bringing before God to understand the context of what it's really about. Okay, so your book is available everywhere books are sold. Is that right? That's right. Okay. So if you, I already know that someone's listening

and they're like, okay, I've been having these dreams or I've been dreaming, but they didn't make any sense that this book is going to be a blessing to them. So I want to make sure that you all get a copy of this book, literally wherever books are sold, it is called The Power of Your Dreams. And it is sure to be a book that helps you to navigate, not just for you, but I think as a tool,

as you serve the other people in your lives, even as you mentioned with children, not always having covering and helping your children to navigate what they may be sensing or seeing in their dreams. So I'm grateful, I love you. I'm thankful for you. Is there anything else you want to add before we go?

Not really. Oh, I will say this. The book is also available in Spanish and that comes out November 5th. The Spanish chapter. That's amazing. And did you do an audiobook? I did. Are you reading it? I did.

And that was a new experience. Because you think you can speak, but then when you sit down to read an audio book, they're like, is that how you walk through the world? Because you cannot pronounce words at all. At all. And the lady, oh, this is just going a different way. But I remember the director when I was doing the audio book, she's like, is it OK for like stop and correct you? Are you OK with that? I said, please do that. Please do that.

And then did she do that? She did. And I was like, how? Why can I not pronounce right now? Oh, my goodness. But it was great. It's really great. OK, well, then I know because Stephanie has the kind of voice where it's like

she could literally read me the newspaper and I would listen to it. So you might as well let her read you the book. OK, thank you. I love you so much. Will I see you this weekend? Yes, I will be there. I'll be there on Sunday.

Okay, I'll see you this weekend. I love you. I love you too. I didn't get to tell this story, but one of the things that I just, I admire about Pastor Stephens, she came over to our house when we were living in Los Angeles and we were just hanging out,

like no intention, just literally just kicking it. And she was like, we should all watch Mulan. And she had been over there for maybe about two and a half hours, which is, you know, you guys know I'm an introvert. That's towards the time where I'm like, all right, well, probably wrapping up, but we were fine. We were kidding. And she was like, we should watch Mulan.

And she's like, it's my favorite movie of all time. I've probably of all time. I've probably seen it like a hundred times. And so we all pile up and we're sitting around on the couch watching Mulan. And pastor Steph is so funny because she was watching it and there would be something she'd be like, wow, and her beautiful voice and oh my word. Like it was like she was watching it and there would be something she'd be like, wow, and her beautiful voice, and oh my word, like, it was like she was watching it for the first time, and it was so funny to me.

And what was really funny, she managed to get PT to sit down and watch it as well, which you guys may not know this, but PT's not the sit down and watch Mulan type, but Stephanie has this way of one, making things that may be normalized and ordinary feel like you are experiencing them for the first time. And I think that's because that's the way she sees the world.

And also she has a way of making you do things that you wouldn't normally do or to think in ways that you would not normally consider. And so I hope you all enjoyed this conversation. I cannot wait. Oh my goodness. Next week is going to be so good. We are having a conversation with the woman whose journey I have watched from afar, but am looking forward to digging deeper into. So all right. I love you guys. Oh, let's pray. Oh y'all not y'all almost close the podcast without praying. I just sense that even hearing Pastor Stephanie's journey, maybe even witnessing mine,

is making you curious about what a deeper level of faith, a deeper level of dependency on God can look like for you, and not necessarily in a big way that produces ministry that impacts others in the way that we are doing, but in a way that impacts and changes you. And so thank you, God, for sending us examples, but not duplicates, for allowing us to see

that you show up in each of us in different ways, that you give us different gifts, different talents, different unique ways of understanding who you are in the world. God, I pray that whoever is listening to this prayer right now, that you would first bring them to a space of real hunger, that they would hunger nothing but what you desire for their lives, that you would quite literally lose out of their appetite anything that makes them hunger for something that is not from you. God, I'm asking you to break their heart for what breaks yours. If there are thoughts, if there are actions, if there are words that they are engaged in

that are in direct contrast to who you are. God, I'm praying that you would break their hearts for what breaks yours and that you would allow them to begin leaning into your wisdom, your love, your truth, your strategy for their life. Fill them with the Holy Spirit, God. First, that they would just stay on full, that they would not live with the ebbs and flows of full one day and dry the next. And as you feel them, God, I accept from that place of feeling that you would produce a flow for them and that that flow would touch everything that they do, that their partners, that their children, that their friends, that their creativity, that their professional lives would all be touched by that flow because that flow has begun with you.

I pray this in your son's name, Jesus name, amen. Evolve.