Woman Evolve with Sarah Jakes Roberts - Relationship Goals w/ Kelly Rowland

Episode Date: February 4, 2026

Host Sarah Jakes Roberts welcomes multi-talented artist, entrepreneur, and philanthropist Kelly Rowland to the podcast. With a career spanning music, film, and television, this episode peels back the layers to explore Kelly's life through the lens of her relationships. Fresh off tour, she revisits a profound moment in her life—the carefully forged reconnection with her father while on stage. Kelly speaks to a faith that has long anchored her and the intention behind passing it on to her children. As if that weren't enough, Kelly turns our focus toward her latest project, Relationship Goals. This romantic comedy draws inspiration from the New York Times bestselling book by Pastor Michael Todd. More than a faith-based film, it's a story about love, forgiveness, and the art of surrender. Watch it today on Prime Video!

Just because God is everywhere doesn't mean that our awareness of God's presence is constantly turned on. You spend your life constantly on the run. You'll never get to fully experience the present, presence of God in this moment. My dad said, oh, baby, your voice is from my side. So I was like, just blown away that I got my identity from, you know what I mean? That was great connection for me. What's up family? This is your girl. Sarah Jake's Roberts. And you are listening to the Woman Evolve podcast. What is going on with you? I am so excited to be back in the saddle giving you our more normal podcast format. Part of the reason why I really enjoy the devotional is that I get to kind of download and unpack and give framework to what the Lord is laying on my heart and hopefully provide something that shares you with your journey. One of the things I love about, this format is that I get to do it more recently, I guess. So I get to fill you in on what's going on

in my life and I get to take some of your questions and have some amazing conversations about subject matter that I think is very intriguing. And so I missed you all. I love you. I can't wait for the next few weeks of us just digging in, learning from one another, growing with one another, but most importantly evolving. I am coming off the hills of an amazing weekend. I got to go back to Los Angeles. And this trip was different for me. I've been back to LA a few times, but there was something about this trip. Maybe it's because we were doing a revival at the church that my husband founded, the church that radically changed my life won. And I haven't been back there and forever that I just started reflecting on how much I've grown. Maybe it's because I've just been in this

season of reflection, especially with me not being on social media. But it was really an incredible weekend and one of the things that I really felt reconciled in me. Like, I feel like we have these moments where we come full circle. And when I first moved to LA, when I left Dallas, I had bought my home. I was there with my two children, or here, I guess, with my two children. And I was like, finally, I'm safe. I'm settled. I can build a life from here. And then I meet this amazing man. And if you know, you know, like, if you haven't met him yet, like, don't worry about like all the people who you have met along the way that made you like, oh, shit, I spent a blog. It just didn't feel amazing. When you meet the one, like, you meet the one, because this is how you know,

this, you want, people ask all the time, it's February, it's love month. Y'all want to, I'm, I'm going to ask them to come on a podcast next week. Y'all want to know what it's like when you find the one. I was like, literally, I'm not about to let this man just breathe air and not be with me. You know what I mean? Like, you're not going to just be in this world without me. Like, yes, my life is amazing right now without being in a relationship. But the idea of me living without you is just not giving feasible. That you would just get your oxygen on and your issue. Like, you're just going to be drinking your water, eating, and living without me in your world.

I think not. And so, but when I moved to L.A., it was hard. I left my family. I left this sense of security and family. And I worked really, really hard to find peace again, to find home and to find my identity out there. And I found her. and I loved her and I fell in love with our life there. I say all of this to say that life takes us through a lot of changes, right?

When I lived in Dallas before I met my husband, I was safe there. And then we moved to Los Angeles and, you know, I went through a season of instability and insecurity and I found safety again. And I just want this to be a reminder to those of you who are maybe afraid to go road because you're like, man, I do not want to shake up my life. I don't know who I will be on the other side. of this. I like who I am now. I'm comfortable in who I am now. When God gives us an invitation to go rogue, undoubtedly it's going to shake us out of our comfort zone. It's going to make a demand on

parts of our character and healing and maybe even our brokenness that we didn't even know existed. However, if we stay in the process, we will become comfortable in a place that once made us uncomfortable. We will become rooted and planted. in a different season of our life. And so if you are maybe in that season where I was in, where I was like trying to find my identity, trying to figure out what does belonging and security look like in this new normal, I want to encourage you to not be sitting up in that room.

You are not brandy. You do not need to be sitting up in your room, okay? Get out of your room, get out of your comfort zone, try new things, meet people, learn your new city, learn this new job, learn the new school, and give it a chance. Think less about what's waiting out there for you and more about who you can become by trying new things. So that's my little word for you. L.A. was amazing. We had an incredible time. I got to do some exciting things. And I came back to Dallas and I didn't feel like, oh, Lord, take me back to the West Coast because I love my life here.

And I feel like that's the beauty of trusting God is that if you trust God, you will find a way to love, no matter what state that you're in, to love and trust his presence, his covering, his development, even in the midst of all. So, okay, you've minded my business. Listen, you're talking about going road. This episode is the, this is the perfect way to kick off like our normal format, but in a rogue way. because the fellas, first of all, fellas, we know y'all be listening. I get the stats. I see the demo. It's the woman evolve podcast, but the man part, the wo man, the man is up in here, okay?

So our advice question this week is from one of the fellas. Let's get into it. Grieans, Guillain says, well, I'm a fella. I don't know if I'm out of place, but I feel led to call. And the question is, if we in pop's presence all the time, are we not already set apart? Is that kind of not like going to roll right at front of everybody? It's kind of weird.

I'm going through that. I don't think the gender matter because it's spirit and truth, right? Love it like the day do. I mean, I see it when you're on the podcast. Enjoy it. I love this question so much because it brings us into an awareness that I think a lot of us don't fully understand as it relates to our walk with God. So yes, God is omnipresent. He is everywhere. But just because God is everywhere doesn't mean that our awareness of God's presence is constantly

turned on. It's kind of like a bad example, but go with me. I'm going to go, I'm going to go with it. I'm going to say Bluetooth or Wi-Fi. Right. No, I'm going to go Bluetooth, right? Bluetooth, maybe. I should have thought this analogy through. But, okay, I'm going to go with Bluetooth. It's like, you know how you have a device? Like when you get in your car, boom, you get in your car. If you have a car that has a Bluetooth, it's supposed to automatically connect. But every now and then you turn your Bluetooth off and when you get into your car, it doesn't automatically connect.

Maybe you've got a speaker, right? Like, it's not that it's not available to you. It's just that it's not turned on. And most of the time, we are so busy going through the motions of our life, going through the everyday rhythm of our life, that we are not attuned to the presence of the Lord. And so you're probably wondering, like, what does this look like? One, it requires you to be present in your body.

It requires you to be present in the skin that you're in. If you are like me and you have spent most of your life running from portions of who you are, you know, I'm running from my past, I'm running from the feelings of shame, I'm running towards achievement that is supposed to make me feel better. If you spend your life constantly on the run, you'll never get to fully experience the present, presence of God. in this moment. And so I try to make it my practice, even if I, you know, when I wake up in the morning, you know, sometimes I don't have an hour, 30 minutes to spend in prayer because I'd be trying to

get all the sleep that I can get sometimes. But I'll wake up and I'm like, okay, what day is it? You know, what's on the agenda for the day? Lord, thank you for waking me up this morning. Give me grace, give me peace through this day and I hop out of the bed. But then all throughout the day, I'm taking those moments to say, okay, Lord, this is when I'm up against next. Give me wisdom, give me grace, give me pace for this next thing that I'm up against. And so retraining your mind to invite the presence, not invite, to bring yourself into the awareness of the presence is part of what we can do to really be intentional about experience the presence of God. And then, of course, if we do have that time to worship, to get into our prayer closet, to really say, I don't want to do this day without experiencing your presence.

And to experience the presence of God for me, because I've been on this journey for a little bit, it may be a little bit easier for me to tap in than other people. And so I just want to remind those who may be new on their journey and they're trying to figure out what this looks like for them, that for me, practicing the presence of God, there's literally a book called practicing the presence. but for me, experiencing the presence of God came down to me really carving out time. And there are just some moments for me when I'm just like, I know that God is real. Like when I learn something new about biology, when I learn something new about the way that the ocean functions. I'm just looking at the ocean and looking at the sky like, man, that bird is really just flying in that air.

You know what I mean? And the sky really is blue and the sun. Like someone created all of this. And that person also created me and my heart feeling my heartbeat. So anyways, I bring myself into the brilliant mind and strategy of God that constantly surrounds me and it humbles me. And it just reminds me of the marvelous nature of who God is. And in the process of coming into that awareness, I'm like, okay, so that presence is

available to me today. How can I live as if that presence is available to me each day? and those are just some of the things that I do. But you said something about like, doesn't that make us set apart? Living in the awareness of the presence of God is not the same thing as being set apart. So if you look in the Old Testament

and maybe you can do this in some of your study time, if you look in the Old Testament, I think you should, I mean, read your whole Bible is good for you, right? But like if you start in Exodus, it's really an interesting place to start if you're kind of new. And I would like to offer you this lens to read Exodus through.

You have to understand that there are a generation of people who have been oppressed. And this man named Moses comes to them and it's like, there is a God, the one and true God of your forefathers who has come to deliver you. And this God wants to introduce you to his power and also to his presence. And so at first they experienced God's presence through the plagues. But then as they're in the wilderness, and I think you could start maybe around, I had to pull up my Bible to tell you exactly where to start if you're interested in actually going on this journey. But if you start in Exodus, Exodus 12 may be a little, y'all may stress you a little bit. Let's say Exodus.

You're going to see the place. Like if you've seen the Prince of Egypt and you know the story of Moses, he was drawn out of the wall. water, became a deliverer for the Hebrews. Just pick somewhere in Exodus and look at the way that the Lord is speaking to Moses, telling him how to talk to the children of Israel. So Moses becomes the children of Israel slash the Hebrew children. Like those are interchangeable exchanges that you'll hear. But he's trying to introduce them to who their God is. I think this is an interesting place for people to start because it's the Lord trying to introduce himself to his people, but also trying to tell them what it takes for them to be his people.

And he wants them to be set apart. To be set apart is to be different than all of the other ways of the world, right? But they've been in the world, right? And they've been around other idols and other gods and other cultures. And so the Lord is so patient with them and trying to teach them like, this is how, if you're going to trust me to be your God and you're going to be my people, this is what I require for my people. And that's where we get this term like set apart or holiness,

consecrated unto God is for me to say, okay, I want to be God's people. And if I'm going to be God's people, then there are certain expectations that are connected with that. And it is a process. In the New Testament, there's theologians who call this process sanctification, right? So when I meet the Lord and I'm saved and I experience salvation, that's like, okay, Jesus, I accept you as my Savior. I love you. I want to try and get to know you. And thank you for, you know, cleansing me from my sins and put into death, all of the things that could put me to death. Okay, so now I'm saved, right? But now that I'm saved, all that means is that I'm back in reconciliation with God, that I have experienced restoration with God from this place. Like, what do I do? Okay, I'm saved.

Now what? Right? Well, my life is going to change because now that I'm in relationship with God, I can tap into some of the promises that are related to me being made in the image of God and having power and authority and confidence and ability and peace and restoration. And that's the process of sanctification where I go from being pulled out of the world and saved and like out of the world, like out of the culture of the way other people function and live and into this relationship with God that is sacred and pure and holy. And I'm not sacred and pure and holy just because I said the prayer. There's some things in me that are dirty. And the Lord's like, okay, I'm going to use the Holy Spirit to lead you and guide you to help transform you into someone

who was made in the image of God. That is holiness. And so you can live in the awareness of God. You can have relationship with God and never really be transformed because you didn't start embarking on that process of sanctification. So I'm going to say this and then I'm going to zip it. When you look at Jesus, I like to start with Matthew 5 because he just come up. not there just setting the record straight on you think you're supposed to do this. You're supposed to curse those who curse you. I'm telling you to bless those who bless you. He sets the bar so high on what it means to be holy and to be a part of the kingdom of

heaven and to reflect God's goodness on the earth. If you read Matthew 5 and you're like, I'm doing all of this, then baby you, you Jesus Jr., you Jesus Jr., Jr., but for most of us, no matter what, stage of our journey we're in, whether we're new to this or we've been in this thing since we grew up in church and been known in Lord for our whole lives, there's something in Matthew 5 that convicts us. And so we wake up each day trying to live up to those morals and principles because we believe that who we become as a result of that pursuit makes the world better. So that's my little breakdown. I hope it helps you. What's up, fellas? Thank you for listening.

And like not being in hiding because we need to hear from. you all too. So let this be a sign. If you are one of the gentlemen listening to the Women Evolp Podcast and you have questions and things you want to talk about, come holla at your girl. I want to hear from you. So with that being said, I am excited about this week's conversation. I got to sit down with someone who I love as a woman. You know, I did grow up in Texas, so I loved her before she even knew that I was breathing air. And she was a member. of Destiny's Child and then went on to have a remarkable, like any girl, well, I won't say like any girl, like a lot of girls who grew up in the generation that I grew up in and enjoyed

Destiny's Child. You know, you just follow everybody and to see Kelly step into her unique identity and expression and creativity as an artist. And not just that, but then as a woman and a mother has been just an incredible thing to witness from afar. When I met her, when I moved to Los Angeles, I tell the story, I won't bore you with it. But her and my husband knew each other before I met my husband. And when I started struggling just on the tip of like, I don't have hair, literally my edges are gone.

I don't know where to go. are there nail places here? What do I do for this? What do I do for that? Kelly took really, really good care of me. But what I want to talk about, she's in this movie relationship goals and it is going to be on Amazon Prime.

You all have to check it out. I got a chance to see it. I did not want to have this interview until I got a chance to see the movie. And let me tell you, when you hear about a movie that you know is going to be faith-based, if you are like me,

you feel like, you know what, there's going to be like an altar call, come to Jesus moment, it's going to be churchy, maybe sometimes a little bit cheesy, but it's going to be wholesome and cute. This is not the traditional faith-based movie that we are used to viewing. This is something that is new. And a part of me was just kind of like, okay, so this is going to be interesting because I know that there's an expectation for what it means to have like a faith-based movie. However, I really do think we do a disservice when we think that faith has to have one expression.

I think we've left a lot of people behind with this philosophy. This movie takes a very, I would say daring choice to tell a real story of what it means to be a person on a journey, trying to understand faith and how it fits into their lives and how it should change their lives. This is not one of those movies where you meet people who are in the pews and they're singing the songs and they have one little issue and it brings them back to the Lord. This isn't that kind of movie. This is a kind of movie that meets people where they are at different stages of their journey. And although Kelly is the star of the film, there are different stories that are being told as a part of this film that I think represent different women in different stages of. of life trying to figure out how should my faith show up specifically as it relates to my

relationships. What are some of the choices that I have made that I may have to undo? What are some of the rules that I have created that may not necessarily be a reflection of the possibilities that are available to me? They are out. They're clubbing. They're drinking. It's a little slip-up that happens. And, you know, it's not the kind of movie that you're like, you know, we're going to sit down and watch this with the kids. This is the kind of movie that you watch with, you know, your partner. You watch as an adult, you watch with your girls because it is a reminder of real life. Now, there's someone who's going to watch it undoubtedly and be like, you know what? Can't relate because I'm doing all of the right things. My mother says, I don't drink. She used to

say this about like people who were living a more straight and narrow life. I don't smoke, I don't chew, and I don't hang with those who do. But this is a real representation of different people in different walks of their life. And so I was intrigued by Kelly's desire to tell this story. And I think it's necessary that there's representation that doesn't always button everyone's faith up at the end, but certainly creates a space for invitation of further exploration of what faith can look like in different areas of their life. And I feel like that that is something that this movie achieves. You all are maybe familiar with Kelly, maybe not, but I just want you all to know that she is from Atlanta. She's a singer, songwriter, actress, and television personality.

Obviously, we talked about her time in Destiny's Child, but outside of Destiny's Child, she's had an incredible successful solo career in pop and R&B winning multiple Grammy Awards. She is known for her stylistic flexibility and ability to just adapt. And I am so excited to have this conversation with her about her new film relationship goals. Let's get into it. Okay, Ms. Kelly. Thank you for being on the Woman Evolve podcast. Again, we've had you on before, but this feels a little bit more official. I feel like so much has changed since the last time we had an opportunity to talk.

So I'm just grateful to have you again. I am so happy to be here. You know how I feel about you. I feel like I tell this story all the time. When I first moved to L.A., I didn't know where to get my hair done. I was pregnant, not too long afterwards. My edges was coming. I was just struggling.

I remember calling you about them edges, and you was like, listen, calm down. Yes. And you've always just been such a girl's girl, such a consistent presence. And so I'm just grateful that I get to share your light with some of my girls at Woman Evolve. Thank you. Thank you for always sharing your light with all of us.

We love you so much. I love you so much. I love you. Okay. So for this theme, for Woman Evol, we have a theme each year. Okay. Now our theme this year is going rogue.

Ooh. And that's something? Yes. So we're looking at all of the ways that we have settled into a life that may be too small, that may be limiting and really questioning what types of thoughts or behaviors do we need to change, how do we need to go rogue in order to step into the fullness of who we are as women and our identities in God. And so what does going rogue for you look

like at this season in your life? Doing it even when it's uncomfortable, doing it afraid, just going for it. And I think that it's, I mean, I still, of course, get scared about, like different things. Because like sometimes, I remember listening to something that you said and something that keeps presenting itself and like, like, for me, like it was like last season. And I kept hearing if it doesn't scare you, what's the purpose of doing it? And so I keep getting thrown in these positions and moments where I get all these big ideas. And I'm like, that's way too big. But it's actually perfect. Yeah. Because it's crazy. If it's crazy, and it looks crazy and it scares you,

you're actually on the right track, you know, because you're going to do all you can to, I'm going to do all I can to get it done. Yeah. Because if it looks that great and my crazy, that means I'm supposed to make it even better. That or better. Yeah.

For sure. Do you think, I feel like people have a fear of failure, right? Of course. But then I feel like what happens when you've experienced all these successes? And it's like, have I reached the limit on how successful I can be? Do you feel like you deal with that? because obviously you have this incredible career. You are a legend.

Like we're just low-key sitting here talking to a legend. And yet, no. And yet you're still dreaming. What does it feel like to feel like in some people's eyes, I may have reached my potential, but I know that there's still something inside of me. Well, I mean, whether or not, like, people have seen, like, my failures, you know, I have my personal failures or things that I feel like I've failed at.

And I still want to be. myself, you know what I mean? Because I have learned, learned, thank you God, I've learned that I'm not up against anybody else. One of my favorite lyrics from Welcome to the Jungle is when Jay says, I look in the mirror my only opponent. And I remember hearing that lyric and literally it blowing my mind. Because for so long, whether it was society or an industry or whatever it might be so many people use comparison just like often. Like it's just too often. And it really becomes disgusting to me.

And then I heard something about like the comparison being like a trick of the enemy. And it makes perfect sense because then if you can compare yourself and be like, well, I have that and they don't, you like you keep going back and forth and you start to make it a sport. And I started to make that mess of sport. And then when I heard this lyric, it was like, oh. I was so happy. I heard it. It truly blessed me.

And when it comes to society doing that, they do it too much. And then we get caught up in that. And I just refuse. But I just want to keep dreaming and keep, just keep, go through the ceiling. It's the ceiling. It's the ceiling. It ain't no ceiling. Right.

Yeah. Beyond. Yeah. I love what you. are saying about comparison because I think it speaks to the reality that so many women deal with. And I'm wondering, like, as you have had to navigate womanhood and dream in a world where comparison is just a part of how we live and function, what part has having a healthy heart done for your process in qualifying your dreams? Everything. Yeah. And I think that in having a

healthy heart, it was like believing in what was reflected back to me in the mirror. Like, you know, it's like, it's taking the time to like really get to know, like, what do you like, especially coming from a group, you know what I mean, where we're just like, I'm going to make sure they're good, they're good, I'm good, you know what I mean? It was always that, like, this balance. But when I got by myself and spent real time by myself, and I got to be honest, it didn't really happen to like my 30s. You know what I mean? In your 20s, you're just comparing away and just, you know, going completely nuts. But in my 30s, I really started to, like, shift into, like, my pocket. You know what I mean? And continue to shift in my pocket. And I think

between age and, you know, just learning about myself and what my likes are, dislikes are, I just, I had to find that for myself, but I wanted to. You have to want to. Like, you have to actually be like, I'm actually out here. You know what I mean? I'm. You know what I mean? I feel good about myself. I think my heart is good. I think my eyes are great. I think, you know, find the things and qualities that you love about yourself. And if you can't find any, just start with one.

Yeah. Then go to eight because you got a whole bunch of them. Yeah. You know what I mean? They're there. They're all there. You have to trust and believe that they're there because if you don't believe that no one else will.

Yeah. You know, I remember going to events and it would be like, I remember going to this one Oscars function. It was like an after party or something like that. And I was like, I don't belong here. I don't belong here. You know what I mean? Why don't you?

I wish somebody would have been there to shake me. Because you belong in every room God put you in. Right. Yeah. And your life is such a testimony of that and your ability to bring your heart into the moment. I think that anyone who knows you who's ever had a conversation with you always talks about your heart and your ability to bring your heart into everything you do. I am thinking about one, you just got off tour.

Yes. Which was an amazing accomplishment. Yes, it was. And you're standing there in your own identity, in your own truth, sharing your gifts and talent. But there was something powerful that happened while you were on tour with your dad. Do you want to tell that story a little bit? Sarah. Which like, you know, I just saw it on the news, but you got to tell me about it.

So, you know, I had 33 years without my dad. And so when we did, well, when I did the tour, it was really incredible to just have this moment just to love on him. Because it was so long, I remember, like, after he and I met, he would always say, you know, nobody believe you, my baby, you my child, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And when it was time for a dilemma in particular, I just wanted to sing it to him. And I wanted to him to feel seen by me. My daddy's going to be 80 this year. Wow. And those, in that time that he and I didn't have each other. I just wanted to pour into him. You know what I mean? Hopefully fill up what the void was in that time because he didn't know that was going to happen. You know what I mean?

I didn't know that was going to happen. But it was so special because it felt like it was just he and I in the room. And it took everything in me not to cry. Are these tears about to come? No, they are not. But it took everything in me not to cry because I wanted to be strong for him. and it was just beautiful. And I wanted people to see connection and forgiveness. You know what I mean? Because that's a real, real big deal. And it took a lot of forgiveness because it was stuff I had to let go of that I was told by my mom, bless her soul.

And it was things that I, like ideas or ideals of him that I thought were true. And I met him. And I remember meeting him for the first time after the 33 years. Like, I knew everything I wanted to say to him because I was so up. upset and I knew the questions I was going to ask. And when I got to this room and I saw his face, it was like something just shut me up. I had no thought, no volume, no nothing, like, and I sat there and listened to this man for two hours, tell me what his life was like without me, what he was doing, how he thought about me every day, how funny enough, he said, and when I went to your

concerts, none of the security would let me in. told them not to let him in because I was like, I don't want to deal with that at that time, you know, and I was protecting myself. So when it was time to, like, meet him, I'm telling you, it was amazing to get a chance to hear his side of the story. How did you know you were ready to hear his side? I didn't, because if I'm being super duper honest, you're never really ready. You know what I mean?

I think when an opportunity like that presents itself, I knew I was, I was wanting to meet him, but I had this back and forth for so long. And then I had Titan. And it was, I think Titan was three or four. And I was in Atlanta. I remember somebody had set it up for me. And when I was walking to the room where he was, have you ever felt your feet feel like they were not going to move because it was like, they felt like a ton. Yeah. That was the first time I had an anxiety attack. And I literally turned to the person with me and I said, I can't do it. Like, I literally freaked out. And I said, I can't do this. And they're like, no, you can. You're ready for this. You're ready for this. It was my cousin and my assistant at the time. And so that's when I had all the

things in my head. And then when I saw him, whoop, nothing. And so as you look at your life, now that you have him in your life and in comparison to the times where you didn't have him before, what do you think has been the greatest change or shift in your identity? Identity. Because here's a thing. I didn't know where I got singing from, because my mom swore was her, but God bless us. That one, her ministry. Like just playing, like playing.

But in all seriousness, my dad said, oh, baby, your voice is from my side. Really? I said, really? He said, yeah, your grandma was a singer. She sang with Lena Horn and Count Basie. So I was like, just blown away that I got my identity from, you know what I mean? That was great connection for me. And funny enough, when Noah came out, his face looks just like my dad's mama.

Really? Yes, and the shape, because he got a little round face. We got a little narrow oval face. facial shapes. This boy got a little round face just like my daddy. Wow. Same head, everything. And I'm like, oh, wow. So this helps to put the pieces of the tree together. And I love that. That's so restoring for me. And I'm grateful for that. Being parented while you're parenting. How does that show up in the way that you make choices for your children?

He just loves listening to us. Like in the mornings, I'll call him when it's just chaos, you know, getting them dress, getting them ready for school. and everything, just for him to hear it, he's just so fulfilled. He doesn't really say much, like, when it comes to parenting, or he might take the grandparent approach and say, don't be so hard on him, you know? But he doesn't do much of, like, the, he's not overbearing when it comes to parenting. But what's interesting is he can always tell

when something is off with me. Okay. That kind of freaked me out, to be honest. Because he won't, we, like, it will be like maybe, two days and he's like, I'm talking to you two days, but are you okay? Like he taps in. His tap-in game is crazy. Yeah. But I'm just wondering, I guess, as a mother, as you're parenting now, and you are, you know, leaving your children with their identity and what it means to be

loved and nurtured and prepared for the world. Like, what are you drawing from that you did or did not receive that shapes the way that you show up in motherhood? Ooh. I would say, and I hope I'm understanding you correctly, listening, kind of just like listening to them being, why is the word ceasing me right now, but being present. Yeah. Like when I'm present, like being present, like no phone, talking, chilling, movie, whatever we're doing just being. present and enjoying it. And sometimes I'll be so present

that it's scary because I'm like, how can one be this happy? You know what I mean? Even when I'm, it's like we're going through and I'm trying to figure out what stage we're both going through. Because it's not just one-sided I've learned with parenting. Like, you're trying to figure out this new person that

is presented to you today who's five. You know what I mean? Noah just turned five and he just knows everything. I have no idea. But, and this new person, like, you know, I am, like, my patience and everything. Like, so we're meeting a new version of each other every day. And I want to still be able to, like, remember what it was like. And treasure all the memories along the way.

That's what I feel like I'm always challenging myself to do with the girls is to, like, remember that this is going to be passing. I know. It's passing. It's just, and it's so fast. Like, when they say time is a vapor, it's a real thing. Yeah. It's a real, real thing. And I didn't know that until, like, I looked at how Tall Titan was and was like he's almost eye-level with me.

That's crazy. Isn't it crazy? No, that's crazy. It really, really freaked me out. I just, yeah, so that kind of trips me out for sure. You're balancing motherhood, career, marriage, entrepreneurship, teams. Are you stressed? Yeah.

Yeah. Everyone's like, how do you balance it all? Is like, am I balancing it all? That's the real question. No, I'm not balancing at all. Yeah. I think that like everything is there. It's just what thing at the present time needs more of my attention than the other.

Yeah. I think that is, yeah, it's not necessarily balanced. It's still all there. It's just not in a particular order. Whatever, whatever comes up. Whatever it has to come up. To be honest, you know. So I don't know that there's balance, but we're figuring it out.

I feel like that has been one of the most critical ways that my faith is like constantly guiding me every day. Like I can't afford to be religious. Like I really need to have a relationship with God. Because at any given moment, this life shifts in a direction that I may or may not be able to handle. And I need wisdom and strategy on like how to show up in those moments. Your faith, I think, is one of the things that I admire the most about you because you can feel. just the presence of God around you. That it is something that you intentionally carry with you

and I feel like you leave light everywhere that you go. How does your faith shape the way that you're showing up in the world? Experience. I think that I always say my mom planted the seas, but so did my great aunts. Okay. You know, there are some seasons that will definitely be harder than others where I make more mistakes than other times.

Experience, definitely, I think, shapes my faith. And some moments I can't even believe, like, I'm still here. Other moments, I still can't believe he still loves me. And I'm still so blessed and have so much love around me. and I get to be forgiven. You know what I mean? And my faith is my everything. And it's why I'm still here.

Yeah. It's why I'm still here. I've seen some crazy moments in my life and moments where I was like, I don't think I'm going to make it out of this one. You know what I mean? And then he's like, yes, you are. You know what I mean?

So my faith is everything. I'm grateful for it. And I think in a way, when it comes to parenting, the way faith was all around me as a kid, like as far as like, you know, church and this and that, like it's been really harder to find like a home here when John here. It's harder to find a space, you know.

And it's like I remember Sunday school. I remember church and even like paying attention for like a part of it, then like falling asleep and then, you know what I mean? Like all of it's, but it's in you. It gets in your sleep. And I'm always like, how do I do that for my kids? Yeah. You know?

And I could feel something to say it's not just the space, like allow the space to take place here at home. So whether it's turning on gospel music in the morning, Titan's a part of the gospel choir at school to reading like a Bible. Titan has a comic book. Oh, yeah, the comic Bible book. It. And by the way, last time, I was so happy you should have seen me. you could see all my teeth. Maybe the back of my throat, I was so happy.

Because we were reading, we were reading about Joseph. Okay. And his dreams, and Titan kept going like this. Oh my gosh. Mama, what's that? And he was so intrigued. And he was in it.

I was like, oh, God, you got him. I'm so happy. Like, so we keep reading it. So he keeps being intrigued. And he keeps remembering what faith looks like, even when it's hard. But he loves the story of David and Goliath. It's one of his favorite Bible stories.

And that was when he was smaller. Yeah. So now that he's older, he remembers that that's his favorite story. So he's learning about his new stories. And Noah's just like getting into it. But we have like this book that's like the little blessings. That's like little inserts of like Bible stories in the morning or in the evening that we do. So we're just planting seeds.

And even when they're starting to cut up, I started a new thing where I'm like, Father in the name of Jesus, I ask that you a cover. And now tell me to it's diet and da-da-da-da-da-da. And he's going... Is everything okay? Are we okay? It's really funny. And then I was talking to Sierra yesterday.

She said, oh, no, girl. She said, take it one step further and make them start to pray after you pray. Yeah. And say, well, I was like, oh, that's a good idea. She said, because we go one at a time. I was like, that's a brilliant idea. Okay, not y'all out here looking like so fly, so trendy, and just like our church mother's in the kitchen.

Because what? The gig is up. I'm on to you. Because breaking out and father in the name of Jesus is the churchish grandmother. No, we have to. It's almost like capturing their attention because Noah goes, what? Like, it's really like a yank up. You know what I mean? And they're going to remember that forever.

They'll be like, y'all was listening to my mother's songs, but let me tell you what was happening in the kitchen. Whenever I did something, she broke out into prayer. Absolutely. If you're not, if it's not, you know, huh? Let's go. I love that. I was going to ask you, at this stage in your life and your career, so you've done so many amazing movies, you're continued to just evolve your expression in your voice as a creative, which I think is amazing. Why choose this movie that is faith-based? Well, I like that it wasn't like forcing the hand of faith. You know what I mean? I like that, you know, it was more so these humans that are going through, life at a real time.

It was honest and authentic. You know, and it's meeting them where they are. And those are Christians, I know. Okay, can we, wait a minute, let's backtrack. Let's backtrack a little bit.

Hold on, because they don't know because they ain't seen the movie yet. Yes. Okay, let's backtrack, because when we hear faith-based movie. Yes, people are like, oh, it's going to be. You know what I mean? Everyone in the cast is already saved.

Yes. and like blood washed and just just skirts down to the ground they're already there. So when we go into the faith-based movie, we're prepared for alter-call. It's really like an alter-call movie.

This is more like... The real world. Yeah. But what I loved about the film is that it is a departure from what we experience in a more traditional faith-based film because it is a people-based film

and it's people who are trying to figure out what does faith look like for me and at this stage of my life and how do I integrate it into my decision making should I integrate it into my decision making. And so I love that it widens the lens on what it means to experience faith. And so I'm curious,

as you're reading through the script and you're choosing this story to be a part of what will be your level, legacy as an actor. What was the message that you were hoping to convey? Oh, my goodness. The big one for me, the biggest one for me was letting go. You know, with Leah, when you meet her, she's just in control. She's got a hold of everything. She's just like moving and shaking, and it's all at her, at her power. You know what I mean? In her control. And you see her at her job space, and she's,

loses a bit of that control. And you see her, you know, in her personal space, and she literally just feels like she has the control. But as soon as she actually just kind of like opens up her hand a little bit, she gets a piece of love. You know what I mean? But with the love also comes forgiveness. With the forgiveness comes the letting go.

You know what I mean? Like with, I don't want to tell too much. But I fell in love. love with her because I understand how hard it is to let go. I feel like I probably go through that lesson, you know, every other season, because I'm thinking I know what I'm doing and I'm like, no, you don't just let it go. And I'd say with grief, because you know I experienced grief, she and I were so lined up. Like when I read just the plot and I know that she had lost her mom and I wondered how navigating that role was going to be for you.

I was like, I knew what that felt like. Yeah. You know, when she went to the site and she just had to just let it go. Like, I just, the letting go for me is the biggest thing, the biggest lesson that Leah had to learn. One of the biggest lessons she had to learn. And just letting God, you know. And I love all the lessons with all of the characters. You know what I mean?

I'm really excited for people to see this film because I, and I love that you said it's a people film. You know, because it is a people film. These are real humans dealing with some big emotions and big, like, moments in their life. And like I was saying earlier, like, I have some girlfriends who are going through their season of single. Well, they feel like it's loneliness. Yeah. But I'm like, how lucky are you to get to take delight in yourself in this season? I think that we think about it in a way where it's just loneliness.

I remember my season of loneliness. Yes, I do. I'm not going to count that out because that's a real feeling. But I do feel like taking a delight in yourself and just working on you is also a plus. Because P.S., when you get married also, you're still learning about yourself. And the dynamic change is even greater because you're making space, of course, or having space for your partner as well, your spouse as well. And then when you add more to it, here comes some cheering. You've got to figure out as well. Well, and the parenting factor. Figure out this beautiful space of what kind of wife you want to be, what kind of mom you want to be, how you want to balance it all. Like, write down your plan. This is your plan to be strategic. You know what I mean? And figure out your strategy for how you want your future to be.

I wish I would have actually done that. Yeah. You know what I mean? I probably would have really stressed Tim out a little less. I know. That's why I was just thinking about it, then that PT probably would have been in better shape. to you. Honey, I don't know who I am. Yes, yes. I'm still figuring

that out, and I'm going to continue to evolve. No pun intended. But I'm going to continue to evolve, but at least I have some of these other just tidbits just kind of lined up. Like, I like that. I don't like when you say that to me like that. You know what I mean? Or I like to be told this like this. I really hear

what you're saying. You know what I mean? It just helps you to communicate with yourself and everybody else better. You know, I know that the movie is about, you know, Leah and her love interest. But I feel like the real relationship goals were the friends. What? No, they was down.

They were down. When Brenda went to her... Trice's house. Yes, after the whole little situation. See, I don't want to give it away. It just speaks to the power

of like sisterhood. Yes, it does. And I felt, especially for women, that friendships are more romanticized in some way than romantic relationships. Yes. And when you have good women in your life, when they are going through a change

in transformation, it is contagious. It took one woman saying, hey, we need to do better to really create a chain reaction. Isn't that powerful? It's so good. Yes, I agree. I feel like it's the strength of the movie. Is that part of what you were drawn to as well?

Yes, absolutely. When the girls were, like, bouncing off of the pages and I could see, like, what it felt like? And then when I read with them, you know what I mean? In the casting thing. But when we read together, it was incredible. Yeah. Like, I could feel it just for,

from my first read. You know what I mean? And knowing that it needed to feel like that, like in my imagination. And Leah changed. I feel like Leah was the last one to kind of really get on the good foot. You know, she took a little minute to get on the good foot. But once she got there, I think her giving herself permission to, this is going to sound crazy, but I think it's like what she did to betray who she thought she had to be in order to stay safe.

Yes. Like she gave herself permission to betray that version of herself. And I feel like that's the greatest tension that women experience is like, I am protecting a version of myself that I really don't even need anymore. Yes. Which means in order for me to break up with that version of myself, I'm going to have to, to a certain extent, betray that safety. Yes. And we see her step into that. Yes.

In a way that I felt like was just so intentional. But that's so beautiful the way you summed it up. Because that's a real thing. And I think that, like, by the way, sometimes I can hear that version of myself show up in a time. And I'll think for a second, that's how I'm supposed to handle it. I'm like, no, no, no, no, we've already been there. You got to be quiet. You know what I mean?

Yeah, I got this. Yeah, I call that the E version of myself. Like, she know better, but she don't do better, but she's still here on the ride. I'm like, no, no, no. I literally say, I know I get this. But I got it. Yeah. I got it.

You can sit down now. And it does help. Yes, it does. And I thought that for some, second, like, I would be, like, kind of crazy to do that. But Tim has seen me doing it. He's like, you know, looking at me kind of crazy because I'm like, no, trust me, she was about to have you out here. You're about to be in trouble. But I had to sit her, sit her down. You know what I mean? Like, I just, yeah, sometimes you

got to just sit her down. Have you ever gone through a stage in your life where you felt like you had to prove your worth or your worthiness to be loved? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Several seasons pop up for me. And it really cost me so much joy. It costs me so much joy because here I am thinking I had to be one way. And the way that God really truly made me, like authentically me, was the best way I needed to show up. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like like Annie with her shape shifting. Is that what you call it? Shape-shifting. Like, yeah, I definitely went through some shape-shifting seasons for sure. I feel like one of the things that I liked about relationship goals, too, is that some of the things that they thought were goals for a relationship, like, actually weren't goals.

Yes. You know? Yes. And I am wondering, like, you've been married now for almost 12 years? Yes. Wait, we share that the same, don't we? Yeah. It'll be 12 for us in November.

Yeah. I'm wondering, like, what are relationship goals that you thought were goals that, like, Now that you're married, you realize weren't goals at all? I remember I thought, oh, what did I think? I thought so much, though. Because Leah had a list of what she felt like, Leah was like, it needs to be this, this, and that. And then she had to throw her list away. Yes.

I mean, for me, I remember thinking, mine always had to do with comparing. You know what I mean? I was always comparing, like, relationships. I look at somebody else's relationship and be like, well, they're always doing this for them and doing this. Like, it was, I'd say, I was naughty and I always compared. And I love my husband the way he is.

Because he makes me laugh. He's funny. You know, he's a jerk sometimes, but I actually need that part because that part of it, and it's not a jerk, he's just so smart. So he challenges me. And I used to not be able to take that. I used to think that, like, relationship goals.

was like them agreeing with everything and, you know, always wooing. And he'll be honest with me. You know what I mean? And why they do that? Why they be honest with you? I like, but at a time I didn't like it. And I've had to learn to not see it. Well, one, I think my like self-worth was connected to his feedback.

So it's not just like that wasn't a good idea. It's like, you're not smart. That's how I heard. You know what I mean? I'm like, so now I'm not smart. Right. Or like this idea could be better. we could do it differently.

And I couldn't receive his feedback without taking it personally. That's me. That was me. Yeah. But I've gotten so much better. Me too. I'm so happy for you.

No, I'm happy for us. I know. We did good. We totally allowed to space for us. You know, correction in the most beautiful way. And it's what we need. Because why would you be in a partnership where your perspective doesn't expand or grow?

Yeah. And I think that that's what happened for me. I'm happy. I have one more question for you. Yes. So a lot of times women believe that love and success can't live in the same place, whether it's romantic love or even just motherhood, right? Like having to balance loving your children, how you want to be present

for them in success, or friendships as you're like scaling your businesses or climbing the corporate ladder. How do you challenge that notion that love and success can't coexist? I mean, we learn to do it. We actually do it every day. You know what I mean? I'd say don't sell yourself short. Oh, that's good. I'd say, don't sell yourself short. I don't. I think that when you're actually figuring out how to do it, you're figuring out how to do it. That's great. You know, and also, like, whatever it is that you need at the time, everything else is going to benefit off of it.

It's like, I needed a girl's night a couple of weeks ago, but I had a free night with the boys. But I've been pouring myself so much into motherhood, and I didn't have any time for my girls. because I just got off the tour. You know what I mean? And after the tour, I poured myself back into the house. Right. So I remember I was like, no, I'm just going to leave. I'm going to leave that house.

And Tim was like, okay, okay, go on, we'll see you later. I ended up spending night at Angie's house. Who was literally like over the hill for me and I got a chance to hang out where. And it was so much fun. And then, like, prior to that, like me and Tim would have a date night pretty much every other night when I was on tour because like the boys were in their bunks. They loved being in their bunks. Usually they're in the bed with us. I was like, no, I get my boyfriend every night. This is fantastic. So like, I don't know, we can't travel

everywhere with a tour bus, but it was great that the boys were in their bunk because I could just hang with my boo. Yeah. So I, whatever I need at the time, I'm like, let's go. Yeah. For sure. figuring it out. Well, you're doing a phenomenal job. Thank you. And I feel like this movie is going to resonate to so many women who are trying to figure out how do I balance it all? And is it my job to balance it all and what the surrender look like? So thank you for another contribution. Thank you. Of a beauty in there. Thank you. Thank you for having me. I love talking to you. I love you. I love you. I love you back. We said at the same time.

I hope that you all enjoyed this episode as much as I did. I loved hearing her telling me that she's just breaking out in prayer in Jesus' name for the kids. Let me tell you something. Tickled me because how are you out here being this fly, this hip, this trendy, but also being church mothers? The process. The process of it all. But I'm grateful for this opportunity to have this conversation with her. Listen, I don't know where you are on your faith journey, but what I do know for sure is that I'm grateful that God has led me to you at this season of your life that the Lord is trusting me.

As you are watching the film or maybe even trying to examine what this faith look like in your life, I want you to know the worst thing that you can do is borrow someone else's revelation of who God is. It is important for you to get to know Jesus for yourself. And I want you to know that Jesus is. is going to give you great, great intentional strategy on how you are supposed to show up in the world. Begin to ask the Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit, how do I need to handle relationships? Holy Spirit, like they're drinking in the movie, but someone may have a drinking problem. And, you know, Jesus turned water into wine, but also there are scriptures, like, you don't need to be drinking. So when you're finding yourself in those moments where you're trying to figure out what does my identity need to look like as it relates to my walk with the Lord, there is nothing off limits where the Lord won't give you wisdom or direction.

And so I just want to encourage you to get to know God for yourself in every area of your life, not the least of which are your relationships. And to ask God, what are the kind of goals that I need to have in my relationships? Like I said in the interview, I think one of the most beautiful things about the film is not the conversation about her and her love interest, as much as it is the beauty of sisterhood and how one woman's desire to go deeper in the Lord. One woman's desire to be more intentional about pursuing wholen wholeness and healthy relationships inspired her sisters to get on the journey with her as well. And that's the beauty of what happens when women get together is that we evolve. That is evolve to. Go rogue. All right.

Listen, Lord, thank you so much for this opportunity to experience challenges to the way that we may be thinking, challenges to the way that we're showing up in the world, an opportunity to explore what change can look like for us. God, I pray right now for every listener connected to this podcast. that you would meet them in the area of their greatest need. Maybe it's not a need that they've even identified, but you realize that it is their greatest need. God, I pray that you would highlight it, that you would make them uncomfortable with it because you want to bring them into a place of holiness,

of consecration, of communion with you as it relates to that area. And so may they become more aware of your presence, and may they live and breathe and love and dream with your presence in mind. God, allow me to continue to be a good steward of this platform, of this influence, challenge me in the areas where I can grow, where I can be a better leader, so that our relationship, not just the one that I have with the incredible people listening, but the one that I have with you, ultimately gets all the glory and all the things I do. him in Jesus name amen I will see you all next week evolve