Woman Evolve with Sarah Jakes Roberts - Taking Up Space with Jekalyn Carr

Episode Date: June 24, 2026

What do you do when life forces you to slow down? In this vulnerable and faith-filled episode of the Woman Evolve Podcast, Sarah Jakes Roberts shares an intimate update on her recovery journey following major neck surgery and the emotional decision to postpone Woman Evolve Conference 2026. Then, Sarah sits down with gospel artist, preacher, and entrepreneur Jekalyn Carr for a conversation about purpose, obedience, dating, business, and trusting God in every season. Together, they explore how to stay rooted in your calling, pray for the right people to walk alongside your vision, break negative cycles, and embrace the courage to go rogue when God is leading you somewhere new. This episode is a reminder that even when life doesn't go according to plan, God is still writing the story. Get 40% off select Lola Blankets products at https://Lolablankets.com by using code EVOLVE at checkout. Experience the world’s #1 blanket with Lola Blankets. Save 20% Off Honeylove by going to https://honeylove.com/WOMAN! #honeylovepod Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to https://trymiracle.com/evolve and use the code EVOLVE to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You got to have that prayer in the forefront. Who do I need in this season of my life, you know, for this vision that you've given me? Because I don't believe he would just give you the vision and don't give you who or what you need to make sure the vision becomes what it needs to be. What's up, family? This is your girl. Getting adjusted in the chair. Sarah Jake Roberts and you are listening to the Womeney Ball Podcasts. I usually ask at this point, how are you?

but given the fact that I just had surgery, I'm going to skip to the me part and then we'll come back to the U part and then we could just see how things are going. I am almost two weeks post-operation. And I had the surgery I had, people just call it ACDF, but it stands for anterior cervical dysectomy infusion.

And what it is, is, did I explain this already? I don't know if I explained this already, but they cut, my surgical tape is still on my neck, but they open your neck, move your vocal cords in esophagus, and find the cervical spine, remove the herniated disc in my case that was compressing the spinal cord, replace it with like a spacer in between, and then put like metal plates and screws in. and that I sometimes when I walk myself through exactly what happened it helps me to understand why I feel the way that I feel because I, I, like I go back and forth, I vacillate between being in a lot of pain and feeling fine. I feel at this point like pain management is under control.

I was not at all prepared for the level of pain I felt immediately after surgery. I'm pretty tough. It takes a lot for me to say something like hurt me. That's emotionally or physically. I talk to the lady about it, so no need to judge. But I think that, like, I was prepared for my throat to hurt. A lot of what I, like, looked up online had a lot to do with my throat hurting. What I wasn't prepared for was the muscle spasm. So evidently, the position that they put you in to perform the surgery, they like push your shoulders back, but move you forward and tilt your head up. And I had so much pain in my neck and my shoulders. It just, and then I'm allergic to some pain medication, so they were giving me something that wasn't addressing the pain at all. So those nights in the hospital were really, really difficult. But I am home. So a part of them, like moving the vocal cords And esophagus means that there's inflammation in your throat. So even right now, it feels like I have like this huge lump in my throat.

My voice sounds a lot better. I went through a few days where, like, I couldn't, I could only whisper or not speak at all. And yeah, this has been quite the experience. I will tell you, before I knew I had to have surgery. I was like, one of those people was like, I'm not going to let that trampoline. like that trampoline didn't whip me. Like I'm getting back on the trampoline. When I found I had surgery, I was like, that trampoline really ate.

That trampoline really ate my lunch. I'm going to give it to you. I'm with you and you write. I'm never going to hate on you. That trampoline ate me up. With all due respect, ate me up. And if I never stepped on a trampoline again, I'd be fine. I'd be a okay.

I've got, at this point, there's nothing to prove. I haven't gone to the doctor yet. Like I said, I'm almost two weeks post-stop. This is the most that I've probably spoken. But I'm going to go to the doctor. I have to do physical therapy just to get some of my range of motion and stuff back. And they said it's just a long, hard recovery. So even when I found out about it and I was looking it up, so like ACDF recovery,

online, it literally says six to 12 weeks for daily activities. Six to 12 weeks is such a large range in everybody. And that's like with a normal surgery with no complications. And thankfully, I haven't had any complications. It's a little something oozing from underneath these stare strips. I don't know what to expect when they fall off. But like I said, I'll go to the doctor. Based off of when I had the surgery, it would have put me right at the same.

six week mark for us to have Womney Evolve. And I really went back and forth about whether or not to have conference, because six weeks, I'm like, listen, I'm going to do all the right things. I'm going to blow through recovery. I'll be fine. I'll be ready to go in six weeks. It left no room for complications, left no room for, and it's like six to 12 weeks. Like, you know, it really, I really believe that I'm that girl. But, you know, in the event that I was just this girl and not that girl, it left no room for air. And with the economy being the way it is, people making plans, I just felt like it was the right thing to do to try and postpone as soon as possible, which was really, really hard for me because it also felt like failure to like, You know, because it's like at six weeks, like, okay, what if I'm fine? What if, like, it hurt? Like, maybe it is going to hurt. Maybe I am going to jack myself up a little bit trying to get it done. But at least, you know, I show up for other people. And I honor my commitments. And I went through this whole, you know, will Jesus sacrifice his body? Like, it just, I was just trying to find a way. But ultimately, it's a, it's a, it's a,

me really not feeling like putting myself and my health first, even if I have the best case scenario, isn't failure. Because, you know, if I have the worst, if, and I won't, right, but if I did have the worst case scenario, which I just have to, I have to see as a possibility given the fact that, like, I didn't necessarily want to have surgery, but I had surgery. I don't want there to be any complications, but the reality that there could be complications is real. You know, I feel like it would have been more justified to postpone if I had complications, but to postpone and for it to be like, well, look, you breeze through recovery and you would have been fine by this time just makes me, would have felt like, well, I put myself first and I could have

done it. I'm still processing. I'm just sharing with you how I'm doing. It was really hard to not see the postponing its failure. I guess if you haven't heard, I've made the decision to postpone the WOMEEvolve conference, which is at the end of July. And like I said, probably one of the most challenging things I've ever done.

I'm like, well, what if they go without? What did they get to have conference without me? But I'm like, God has trusted me with his vision and his stewarded. So like, I feel responsible for making sure that I'm there covering it from just a spiritual, standpoint. And there's no way that I'm going to be there and not be there because I don't have to do anything.

I don't know. I weighed a lot of options. I know I've disappointed and upset a lot of people in making that decision, but I've been overwhelmed by the amount of people who felt a sense of relief and even pride, literally people saying that they're proud of me for putting my health first and taking care of myself. And I'm just prayerful. I'm really, really grateful. Everyone with the city and the venues and the hotels, they've been really, really kind and just being patient and understanding. We've had an incredible history with the city of Atlanta. And, you know, we want to continue to build that relationship.

So they've been really great. But I know that this isn't ideal for anybody. This is a big decision that has a lot of consequences. and ramifications and problem solving connected to it. And it's just not an ideal circumstance for anybody. And so when we talk about this idea of going rogue, I feel like it fully challenges me to live up to the very thing that I've been talking to you all about this year,

which is like, what does it look like for you to break your own rules? What does it look like for you to follow the voice of God? And I just knew and praying about it that my only reason, reasons for not wanting to postpone, came down to me, not necessarily trusting God, to me, believing that I'm not maybe as valuable as the things that I do. And so I feel like that's been one of the things I've had to walk with and confront throughout this process is like finding value in myself outside of what I do in my relationships with my husband, my children, my friends, like I'm just not able to show what.

and the way that I'm used to showing up and still believing myself to have value outside of that has been a lesson in going rogue for me. You know, another thing that I've been marinating with, dealing with throughout this process is grief because, I mean, literally it was just such a normal day. We sent my daughter off to prom. I was outside walking with Ella, like,

and to have this accent on the trampoline as it just started up the reality of grief of how quickly my plans, my idea of what my life should look like, what my children and parents and my husband and my parents are experiencing throughout this. And like seeing it hurt them, seeing it. Like, it's just been a grief situation, a heavy situation. And, you know, I hear I'm on social media like many. you, I see stories all the time of like a person's life is radically changed with one phone call, one drive, one doctor's report, and you're grieving the life that you once knew.

And I've been reading this book. It's by Megan Fate Marshman, and it's called Relaxed. It's walking with the one who is not worried about a thing. And there's a portion in the book where she talks about grief. And if I can just like summarize what I received from the book is when we experience grief, it's almost like our soul's recognition that this isn't the way that life is supposed to be. That part of the reason why we are grieving is because we live in a fallen world, where there is sin, where there is disease, where there is sickness, where there is death. and this isn't the life that God wanted for us. And grief is our soul recognizing that this isn't the way life is supposed to be.

Once again, that's me summarizing. She does a much more eloquent job of unpacking it in her box. But that has really comforted me in ways that I didn't anticipate because I have been wrestling with this idea of like this isn't the way I want things to be. This isn't the way that things should be. And yet this is the way things are. knowing that this isn't what God envisioned for our lives, a life of pain, a life of brokenness, a life of disease, just all of the things that we end up grieving as we walk this thing out

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there's no risk. Try miracle.com slash evolve code evolve at checkout. Thanks to Miracle Made for sponsoring this episode. So that has been good to me and that is my business. I guess I could mind yours and see what's happening in your world. But honestly, this lump in my throat is probably going to keep me from doing a whole lot of until like maybe next week I'll be, maybe that thing will be gone and it'll be getting better and better each day. But I wanted to at least give you all an update, let you hear from me. And also, let me tell you, part of the reason why I know like God is helping me to strategize in the dark is like, I started. I started. I started off this year and I was really talking to the team. I'm like, one, the way of the podcast world has

changed. I started podcasting in 2018 and so much of it has changed. And in that change, you know, we were doing it virtual. I was doing on Facebook Live. We went through pandemic. And I'm like, if we can find a way to batch record as many episodes as possible, take two or three days and not got a bunch of episodes. It'll help us set things up for the year. Honestly, our goal was to set things up for the year. And even though we felt a little bit short of that goal, it did set us up for a few weeks so that our team was still able to collaborate, to share the stories and messages of women who have had to go rogue, who are learning what it means for them to go rogue in new seasons of their life. And so I'm really excited to have Jekal and Carl

on this week's episode. We had an incredible conversation. Everything you've been seeing podcast-wise was pre-recorded before the accident. And so we had an incredible, I'd never had an opportunity to meet her. Obviously, I'm familiar with her work. If you don't, she's an incredible, let me not limit. She's an incredible vessel of God's grace and anointing. While some of you may know her for her singing, the sinking is just part of the tree that Jekael and Carr represents, part of the vine that she is in the body of Christ. And we sit down to talk about her journey through ministry, her journey in the different expressions of ministry and what it has caused her. As she has tapped into those different forms of ministry, she was incredibly kind. And I just believe that there's so many messages to glean from her as we talk about what it means to stay rogue when you could be pulled away.

To stay rogue, I want to say this properly because for some people, staying rogue is doing something different. It's breaking your own rules. And for other people, staying rogue is staying steady when change is available to you, staying rooted, when you could be. easily uprooted or easily changed. And she has found a way to discover her authenticity while also maintaining consistency. And I think that if you're in a season like that where you feel like, oh, I'm being called to something that is requiring a steadiness for me and that steadiness can sometimes feel challenging, that steadiness can sometimes make me want to pull away.

I believe that this message of endurance that we're going to receive. from Jacaylon Carr is going to be a blessing to you. I'm so thankful for you for your prayers, for your continued support for me throughout this season. I ask that you continue to lift me up as I go through this recovery process. As much as I can do this, I'm going to try to, but you may hear from other voices from the Women Evolved team and family as, you know, I put myself first, I guess, and honor this vessel, this body that God has given me. Okay, I love you. Let's get into this week's conversation.

So I heard that both of our lives changed at the age of 13, but for different reasons. I am wondering, tell me about your life at age 13, what happened that was so pivotal for you? So at the age of 13, that's when I accepted my calling of preaching. I had been singing since I was five years old. would travel in my little region and we actually thought

that it was going to be the singing that God would use first but I was sitting in service actually before then God had been pulling on me but I was sitting in a service and these praise dancers came up and they were dancing to Chicana Glory yes

and it was awesome beautiful but then another praise dance team came up and danced at the same song and you would think you know I would change change a little bit because somebody came before me and did that, but that was God in that moment letting me know that it is time. And the moment I accepted my calling of preaching, my world changed completely. God took me across the world. I traveled for two years before I released

my first breakout single graders coming, just preaching. Ever since then, I had never had a void schedule at all. Wow. Yeah. 13 years old, you step into ministry. Yes. what was I mean at 13 years old I mean you're still learning so much about yourself and the world what is it that you knew about God at 13 that you felt like you know what this is what I feel like God is calling me to share with the world well you know I grew up in church right

I grew up with the family that is not just you know church church church they really taught us about God and having a relationship with him and so on top of that you know I knew from a very young age what I felt I was called to do. I didn't know it was going to be preaching yet, but I knew that it was something in ministry. And then, of course, coming from a line of ministers

and all of that, and it just kind of like the dots were connected. And it was an easy transition for me because I had been doing it. And even when I was singing, it was as if I was preaching. I just hadn't full on accepted my calling yet. But God just connected the dots. And yeah, it was a beautiful transition. You know what I love about what you said is that you didn't just grow up in church.

You were taught about God. There's a difference. It's a difference. There's a lot of people who grew up in church but weren't being taught at home about their relationship with God and being disciples at home. But it sounds like you had that experience. Yeah. We would literally have our power. So every day my family would come together.

And my mom and my dad, they would teach us. Wow. They would teach us for a whole hour making sure that, you know, this was really embedded in us. Because, you know, as kids, you go to church, you have a good time and all that. But, you know, by the time you leave or Monday comes, as kids, you're going to forget. Right. But I don't think that just goes for children. I think people in general.

Right. It's an everyday thing. And that's what they was trying to get us to do to exercise our relationship with God daily. and not just on a Wednesday or Sunday. Oh, that's so good, making a practice out of that. So someone would say, okay, so you've been in relationship with the Lord since you were young, you stepped in the ministry at 13, you've never had moments where you question your faith and you've never had moments where you've had to question trusting God.

So we want to know, what is it like to be positioned in such a way that you never had any questions? First of all, my entire journey has been a faith journey, especially being that I started out very young. And I would even remember hearing my dad, you know, express how some people didn't want to, you know, sign or deal with someone that was that young and a female and all of that. And so we had to walk by faith and see what God wanted for me and my life and my journey. God fixed it. Even when we wanted to, God fixed it to where we could not connect with anything. It was literally like you're going to trust me through this because I think also some people have to understand that you may not have what the next person have, but as long as you have a word and God has spoken over your life, God is going to make sure you get to where you need to be.

And so there were times where when you're walking by faith, we would be like, okay, God, you sure, you sure do this, do that. And it didn't make sense. But we got to a place to where we didn't try to make it make sense. You know, we just had to know that we got enough history with God that he has never failed us. So anything now that he tells us to do, even when it doesn't make sense, it's like, okay, I trust you. You told me to do this last time and it worked, you know. But sometimes you have those intense moments, especially depending upon what he requires, how much of it and all of that. But I trust him. Okay, like are you in this season where you feel like you're having to trust God again in an area that maybe you thought you'd master trusting God? I think that's every season of my life.

You never get to a place to where, or in faith rather, where it's like I made it. You're going to always go from faith to faith. You're going to always keep climax if you want to. And I learned that because I understood how big God is. And when you understand how big he is, you know, that you can never meet your finish line. You know, there's always some area that, you know, you're trusting God and you're believing him. And if I could be honest, that's in pretty much every area of my life. Personal business, ministry, all of the things, because he orchestrated my destiny anyway.

So, you know, why not invite him into that? I feel like, you know, we talk about his mercies being new every day, which means that we have a need for a need for a new mercy every day. But the problem is we have a new need for a new mercy. And the mercy is new. So I'm looking for yesterday's mercy in this new situation. It's like, no, this mercy is going to be different than last time. So it creates this humility.

And I have had to struggle with this idea. I'm such a planner. I like to know what the goals are, how to achieve them. And in my relationship with God, it forces me into a space of humility because I have to be dependent on his voice. There's a humility you have to have. You never get to this place in mass. and master.

Yeah. And I think that's a great place to be in. You know, being a planner and all, faith without works is this. So we want to, you know, kind of have a little plan and vision and all of that. I think the biggest thing is yielding it to him. You know, God, here's what I've written. Here's what I want.

Now you take the lead. Tell me what is for me because sometimes what we wrote is too small. Sometimes God wants to do bigger. And so that's why it's important to just yield it to him so that he can take it even higher. Our theme for Woman Evolve this year is going rogue. And so I want to know this is a very interesting question, but I feel like you're going to be able to nail it. What's something God asked you to do

that didn't feel spiritual at all but changed your life? I would say, if I'm going to be very honest, really praying for myself like I go to war for everybody else. Shut your mouth. So many times, because you hold a certain position, you're on the battlefield for everybody else to where it's like, okay, God will take care of me. He got me covered, whatever.

But you have to understand it is okay for you to take a moment and the altar that you've created for everybody else, you get on that same altar and you pray for your destiny. You push yourself through, you know, all these things because God hears you. God honors your heart

and understanding that he's not going to let you push everybody else and then make you feel like you have to dummy down. when it comes to yourself. No, you have needs. You need him too. You know, you need mercy too. And so being able to get to that place where I'm like, okay, it's okay to push for Jekaelin.

It was an interesting place to be in, but I love it here now. That's so good because I think especially as women, sometimes we can find ourselves taking care of so many other people, even as it relates to our spiritual prayer life, that we feel like we can't bring ourselves to the altar, that we can't pray for ourselves. And I'm wondering now, like, how many strong friends are actually praying for themselves and not for the other people in their lives. When you really think about it, it's a certain level of neglect, really. It is.

It's like you have to also, like you put yourself first and everything else, put yourself first when it comes to stuff like this. Sometimes we also take on prayer requests and tasks that we, you know, we just want to. But we have to understand that sometimes God wants you to just go to war, travail for yourself. Maybe that will help people who struggle with putting themselves first. Like maybe you can't do it in your life because people have gotten accustomed to a certain version of you. You don't know how to put yourself first in your family and your friends at work. If you could start at least in your prayer life, it may give you the strength you need for it to show up everywhere else in your life.

Maybe we're trying to reverse the order and trying to put ourselves first. And it doesn't make you selfish. Yeah. It makes you, it's the mindset of if I don't have what I need for me, it's hard for me to pour into somebody else. Yeah. So you have to refill yourself and know when those times are imperative. I feel like that's going to help so many people figure out how to navigate uncertainty

in the season that we're in. It's like maybe I'm not praying for my situation to change, but for you to give me power in the face of this situation. I love that. Okay, so I want to understand if you have to, to unpack what it is meant for you as a woman to evolve. What would you say you've had to evolve from and where have you landed in that process? I had to evolve from, I would probably say, not accepting Jekhalen in its entirety.

You know how like when you're in certain spaces you feel like you have to kind of like dummy down, but when you know you, you know the weight of what you care in the capacity and it's not, not arrogance, it's not pride. It's just that you know when you're in those places where it's not fully accepted. But I had to learn how to be confident, you know, in who I am. And now, baby, I love every part of me. I love my voice. I love what God has given me. I love who he has called me to, what he's called me to do. I love being in my lane. And sometimes that can be hard when you got so many things that is happening around you and there are people like, you should do this or you should do that.

No, Jacalyn going to do what Jacalin is called to do. And we're going to be confident in that. And because we've been consistent in that, that's one of the reasons I believe God has been blessing the way he has because we've been trusting him with what he's giving me. I feel like you are talking about taking up space, like being okay with taking up space, which a lot of times we struggle with,

especially if we feel like, oh, well, my gift, not be perfect or there's someone else doing what I'm doing. So I've got to like shrink down before I come into this space. But it sounds like you're like, listen, this is who I am. Yes, absolutely. And then for those who feel like, you know, there's 50 million people doing the same thing, okay? And it'll be 50 million more. But you got to know what your assignment is, what you're called to, who you're called to.

And God is never, we're not the same. You know, God would never make us the same. Some of us may have similar assignments. but that's why it's important that you focus on what you're supposed to do. Be confident in that. Love yourself. Love yourself to the fullest and know that God is going to bless that. Don't look at the next person and think, you know, it's the same thing.

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girl I don't be paying attention to a whole lot of I try not to like even when it comes to social media all these things like I really do I try to kind of shut myself off to a certain degree now I love TikTok I love it I love to get a good laugh

it's just one of those platforms that gives you good laugh but you know when it comes to everything else I just try to there's a thin line And I try to make sure that I don't become overly invested into it. And that's the reason why you know, you have certain people in place that God bless you with so that you can stay focused on what you're supposed to and you can stay balanced and not worry about a whole lot of stuff. I just try to shield myself from that.

Yeah. Okay. So you said you like TikTok. So that's making me wonder like, who are you like when you're not ministering, when you're not singing? Like who are you? You're just a random day. Tell me it was like a random day. in your life? So, well, I have my radio shows, so I do that, but outside of that, I'm a country girl.

So I love ATV riding. I love horseback riding. I'm a big family person. My family will plan something spare at a moment, a little barbecue, a little fish fry. Like, I really enjoy those things. I don't care where God takes me to, and he's done so many great things, but those things mean a lot to me, family and just, and I love, you know, relaxation. I've become a home body by default, you know, because when you're moving around so much, you love your house a little bit more. For sure. And massages, you know, those things that helps you to stay balanced. Okay, so you mentioned your family, and one of the things I read is that your family sacrificed a lot, especially for you to be at a young age, which I feel like isn't, like when

I was growing up, you know, the kids, parents weren't doing a whole lot of sacrifice. before the sake of the kids. The kids could sacrifice for the parents. But it sounds like from what I read that your family sacrificed a lot to really create a space for you to walk in your calling and anointing even though you were young. Is that true? Oh, yes, in many different ways. From a little girl, all I've seen was my parents, my dad, he would invest into my gift. I did a whole lot of things, actually.

I modeled. you know in addition to the singing but that I would literally see him sometimes take his paycheck and he would choose between a bill or an album, a little album that I would do. And he would invest into the album or a photo shoot or whatever the case, maybe anything that had to do with my purpose. There were times where, you know, he would drive and we would go places and I had nowhere to sing, but he'd be like, we're coming through and they'd be like, y'all coming through, well come on through and sing you know but just to see him um you know putting that time in and

investing it uh it's bigger than you just having this title of being a parent you know some people got to understand what comes with that when you have especially when you have children who have callings upon their lives sometimes it takes a little bit more time investment um not just financially but financially but you know even spiritually they invested into us uh like i said imparting wisdom and all these things to help me become a well-rounded person and to grow into who I am today. I feel like if you have parents who invest in you on that level, there are a lot of insecurities and traps that you end up avoiding.

Who do you think you would have been if you had like all of this fame and success but didn't have those deposits? I definitely wouldn't have been ready. Yeah. Because one thing that they always taught us is that it's bigger than you just being gifted. Give comes with that repentance. It's bigger than you just being on stage. We need to be able to like you when you're not on stage.

We need to be able to deal with you and, you know, be able to navigate. People want to actually, you're, you being a lovable person and a well-grounded and well-rounded person at the same time. And so I definitely would not have been who I am, not just in my gift, but as a person without those deposits. How do you balance like, okay, so your parents made a lot of sacrifices for you. And I know that you obviously have honored that in the way that you not just show up, but show up with them and within your family unit, while also like creating space for your own individuality. You know, that's a good question.

It's a great balance, actually. You know, of course I started when I was a little girl. Now, you know, being an adult, I think we have learned how to grow with the times. even though we're a family business, we still take those times to, you know, balance and we keep that individuality when it comes to each other because everybody has grown.

Not even just myself, but my dad is not in the same place. He was in when we started. My mom is not, you know what I mean? So being able to understand growth within each other and growing with each other. I think sometimes that's the problem

when people are like, oh, families can't work together, no. it is very possible there's things that you got to do in order for it to work and one of those biggest things is you gotta know when a shift has happened you gotta know

be able to feel each other know when something is not right knowing they're not okay you know what I'm saying know when the pause you know I would see my dad it would be like all right let's pause let's go on vacation

let's go do this you know what I mean and I still practice that even now in my adulthood and us keeping those you know those boundaries and those lines and all those things and it helps us continue to work together as well. That's so good because to your point, having those boundaries, but also, because I think sometimes we can be so heavy on having boundaries with family that we don't figure out how do we also let the relationship and love evolve with those boundaries as well. And so we end up just like

swinging the pendulum in the other direction, but there's a balance to be had. Yeah, yeah. And the biggest thing, I think the only time you're run into a problem with that is when you don't keep family in the forefront. Yeah. I would always hear my parents say, I do this for you, my dad, I'm your manager, I'm this, but I'm still your father. So we never allowed what we do professionally and the gift and everything God has given us to come in between the fact that we're blood. You know what I mean? And caring for one another and making sure that again, we're good.

So when we talk about going rogue, it's us looking at our lives and things that we have accepted as our norm that maybe God wants to stretch us or we're going to have to revolt against in order for us to really step into what God has for us. Can you tell me about the time you've had to go rogue? I think for me also, I wouldn't even necessarily say ministry, but I would say for me is more so business in the business arena because so many times we were taught, you know, to just be one dimensional. And God was like, no, I put this there.

I gave you this gift of business. I gave you this and that in the third. So that being said, we have to be okay that even if it doesn't look like people wouldn't normally see or, you know, it doesn't sound like something that is normal. You got to know that it's okay to do it. I've learned to go for it. And even if I feel like I'm going against the grain, I know I'm going with God. He sent me. So that gives me my peace.

Yeah. So when you talk about business, I want to lean into that a little bit because you're also in ministry. And I want to talk about that line from, you know, being gifted, being talented, but also recognizing that the platforming of the gift, the distribution of the gift and the anointing so that it can reach as many people as possible, also has this element of business connected to it. And who did you have to become as a businesswoman? Like what was that part in your life where you're like, okay, I'm going to have to really not just be gifted, but I'm going to pay attention to these contracts and I'm going to pay attention to these vendors if I'm going to make sure that I'm protecting the thing that God's given me. Yeah. I have my dad to think for that. Okay.

My dad, he was, when he worked in corporate America, he did a lot of management work for the jobs that he was on. And one of the biggest things he told me is that you're not just going to be gifted. You're going to know the business as well And he would sit me down He would sit my sister down Because she helps with the administration and all that And he would teach us And he would show us, you know, different things or whatever

And also being okay with that Because you know Sometimes they tell you, you know It's not a business It's Business has a lot to do with it Especially when you're running corporations You're not just going

The preaching part is the easy part You know, it's the part behind the scenes And the biggest thing for me was being okay with it and allowing it to happen because yeah you got to make sure that business is right because and I would say even from the music standpoint because you know it's a lot of people who ended up in situations that they didn't want to be in but it's due to you know not knowing the business or not having the proper people to read contracts and all of that we don't just be signing stuff yeah we got to read it you got to take your time to make sure that this

is where you want to be. This is what you want to do and be okay with that too. Okay, so I want us to marinate on this a little bit. Yeah. Because we do have a lot of people who feel like, I have a gift, I have a gift. But that gift, to your father's point, there are other elements that are required in order to properly make sure that that gift can be supported and sustained. I am curious for someone who feels like I'm just gifted, but I don't know what it's going to take in order for me to make sure it reaches these places. Like what are some tips or tools you would give them on learning the business side of things? What are some things that you would give them as advice to work on?

Two things I would say is very important that you do your research. We have a lot of outlets now, whether it's online or whatever, that can help teach you and make you more knowledgeable about the area that you want to pursue. And then also the biggest thing that I like to do is pray for destiny helpers too, that God would send the right people to, you know, connect you with because it works. Every season of my life, he always sent for anything. He always sends the right people to ensure that everything is moving the way it's supposed to be moving.

So you got to have the right people because, you know, you're going to get to a place to where it has to be more than just yourself, especially when you're running a business. And so you got to have that prayer in the forefront. Who do I need in this season of my life? you know, for this vision that you've given me because I don't believe he would just give you the vision and don't give you who or what you need to make sure the vision becomes what it needs to be.

Oh, that's so good. I've had so many, my, when I first started my businesses, I had all my kids working for me because I just had a hard time trusting people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then there came this season where I'm like, okay, the kids don't know what they're doing and neither do I.

You know what I mean? And they need to finish their homework, so I'm going to have to hire some real people having to trust the people that God sins. Like you can say the prayer. Yes. But then when the person shows up, having to trust them,

I feel like not just with your business, but with your inadequacies, right? Like letting someone on the inside to see things that aren't together. Can we talk about like the vulnerability connected with making this place? That's very good because this is your livelihood. This is your life.

This is your personal life. You're going to be more than likely to be in my personal space. You know, it's a lot that comes with that. And you obviously won't be able to trust people right off the back. But I do know that if it's someone that God has sent, you know, he has already made it good, but that don't mean you turn your common sense off or your radar. No, you got to still stay on top of it and making sure that you're watching. Watch as well as pray to make sure that everything is what it needs to be.

In the beginning, you may have to micromanage. I have this thing where I may micromanage, but I'm not going to babysit. So you may have to have your eye a little bit more intense when you're looking at things to make sure that everything is running the way it's supposed to be running. But you got to know that if someone God is sent to you, eventually he's going to give you that peace. I always pray don't just send me the people, give me the peace. Especially when, because you guys, a lot of people who have, been done wrong. A lot of people who've been taking

advantage of and all of that when it comes to their businesses and stuff. And people make it hard for you to trust them. But I pray for that peace to be able to accept them and the wisdom to navigate the relationship as well. Do you pray a similar prayer

when it comes to like your personal relationships and friendships? A lot of women are wondering like, how do I make friends at my age or how do I learn I'm out here dating and trying to figure things out? How do you navigate letting people into your life outside of business. Oh, yeah.

Same prayer. Here's the thing. I don't try to make friends. I allow God to send who I need at different moments. I don't be like, let me go look for it. You know what I mean? Because I think that's when sometimes we kind of go wrong. I just let be what's supposed to be.

And as far as dating, my prayer now, if he ain't it, I don't want to be down the line. three months, four months, no, it ain't it? Tell me now. Now. Now, show me a sign because he knows what it takes to get my attention. He knows what to say.

I need to know. Because especially when you get to a place where you just don't have time to invest your good heart, you know, you're a good person and just time and energy period into relationships that are not supposed to be

in this season of your life. No, okay, so, you know, we get a lot of dating questions and, you know, I'm out of the game, love my husband, you know. But I don't know what to tell the girls these days. They say it's hard out here. It can be, but you know what? Tell me. After you have, you have. Hello, the God of all grace.

And that's so true. That's one of the scriptures that I applied to my life every year. I have a, you know, line of scriptures. But that's something that's on there. When you have had relationships, because it's okay to date. Yeah. Date, okay?

Wait, hold on now. Tell the people again, because I got a friend right now, and I'm trying to get her, I'm trying to get her to at least date. To at least see what she's. She's like, if it's not my husband, I don't want him.

I'm like, how are we going to be known? Yeah. If he's your husband, if you don't go out and date a little. See, the thing is you got to understand that you have to be open to it because if something is closed, can't none come in.

Jakelan. Let me tell you something. Because the girlies I be with who say they want to be in a relationship, they don't be open. And you can tell. Yeah. The problem is when they do, because they're going to come. The problem is when you try to put so much of yourself in it and not allow God to navigate you through it. What I realize is I always keep in the forefront of my mind, he wrote my destiny.

And so even though I'm open to dating, I still want to make sure, like I said, I'm not half of my year gone and I've been dealing with you and you are counterfeit? No. So I always pray in the beginning, okay, God, I'm going on this date. But this is not it, you know,

I give you full access to cut it off without backlash. And to open the door for what is for me. So yeah, it's okay to date. get dressed up. Go, you know. Now, I'm not the type of dater that, like, date multiple people that want. I don't like that. I got to learn.

Everybody's favorite color. Right. I got to do it. Like, no, I'm the type of person. I got one person. I got to focus on one. But if that's what you want to do, do that. But just, you know, again, make sure that you're allowing God in this space.

Because it's bigger. You want to also be intentional. It's bigger than you just being with a person. Do I have the capacity for this person? Does this person have the capacity for me? Not just for now, but for who I will become, who he will become, you know? Because there's purpose attached to anything God puts together. He don't just be out here and be like, they're cute.

They'll be cute together. No, there's purpose attached to it. There's destiny attached to it. And if I ain't got what it takes for you and you don't have what it takes for me, and no sense of us continuing this thing. Jekyllen, I don't know you very well. This is our first time meeting, right? I just sense in my spirit that you could read somebody down if you had to.

Hello If I had to I sense in my spirit That you wouldn't want to You wouldn't want it to go there But if you had to Because the way that you was laying out Them rules and regulations

For the dating Yes Because the thing is When you have When you've dealt with Counterfeits You've dealt with these bad relationships and all of that

And it could not be Bad people Because I never dated a bad person Just wasn't the person for me But you get to a place where, and this comes with evolving, you get to a place where it's like, okay, I have no more time

to just be out here wasting, and, you know, I would look and I would see that a whole year had passed by, and I'm dealing with the counterfeit, and this is not what God wants for me. So how do I change this? And you become more firm with what you want

and where you want to go and, like, being more intentional. Especially when you get to a certain age, now I may not be old, but you get to a certain place in life, it's like, why do you want to waste time? Yeah. You know, why do you want to continue going in negative cycles?

Do the work, do the inner work to make sure that the cycle is broken and you move forward in life. You get married. You know how the work, it sounds like you did the work because you said, I've never dated a bad person. We just had bad situations or weren't right for each other. Right. Weren't right for each other.

And, of course, they were. They were learning experiences. Did you know in the, like, did that come with healing, like saying they weren't bad people? Because a lot of times we get out of breakups, and the only way we can survive them is by villainizing the other person. See, I ain't that type of person. Okay. Like, I'm very big on accountability. I'm very big on taking responsibility for your actions, and that's what anybody, and I'm the same way when it comes to relationships.

And it wasn't anything that I had to learn. I just literally thought about it one day. I'm like, I never really dated a bad person. And this is also an indication that sometimes your pick is not bad. It's just they're not for you. And I also got to a place to where I don't just want my pick. I want what God has chosen for Jacalin. Because there's some things he can permit.

I believe that if I had continued with anyone of my past, you know, it would have been good. But I also would have suffered because that wasn't his plan for me. So that being said, I had to learn how to be like, okay, God, what's your choice? What do you want? If it's not your choice, then I don't even let my spirit settle here. I don't care if you got to cause me to toss and turn at night. Disconnect me from it so I can be where you want me to be. Because I have to keep in mind, he wants to give me his best.

And anything outside of that is just something that I'm just doing on my own and I'm settling. Can you tell me about a moment where you had to maybe grieve that, God's pick and your pick weren't the same pick? Yeah. And then I guess I'm only asking that because sometimes I can say in my own experiences, whether it may have not been a relationship, but something that I wanted for my life was obviously something that God didn't have for me. And like this anger, frustration that what God wanted and I wanted weren't the same thing.

Like I feel like before we can really lean into, okay, I'm going to trust you again, God, that there's almost a part of our heart that has to acknowledge that like, man, I'm really upset that what I wanted and what you wanted weren't the same things. And I don't want people to get stuck in that. Yeah, that's so true. And I think for me,

there's a couple of times that happened. More than anger, I was just broken. Yeah. Because you're like, you know women. When we see things, we're like, okay, we can do this together. We can do that together. And you have all these plans and all these visions. and then God is like, nope, I got something bigger.

I have something greater. And it's like I had already connected my spirit to that, my heart, my mind to that. And it breaks you when, you know, God is like, this is not it for you. But I think you got to know you can bounce back from that. You got to always say, I don't want nothing that God is not trying to give me. If he doesn't want me to have it, it's for a great reason. And we know God wants, he said, accent, he'll be giving unto you. He doesn't have a problem with giving to us, but it's just certain

things that God just doesn't want to be handled lightly in our lives. And I think right now during this time, it's definitely that particular area for a lot of people. You know, you got to understand that, yes, it broke you. Yes, you had these feelings and all these things, but know that God has something so much greater. Because I'm learning that sometimes what I dream, what I felt what I connected to was too small and it doesn't necessarily mean physically sometimes it could be with what you carry and again it goes back to the capacity

God sees in the future he knows what and who I will become what or who he will become so if it doesn't match and that support that push won't be there he's going to cut it off I give them permission to cut it off but you got to know

you can bounce back. And I pray for healing too. I pray for holiness, especially for people who's been in relationship for years with the same person. You know, it can be interesting, but God is still a healer. And also, know that your healing is not going to happen overnight. It's not going to happen overnight. You have to, it's a daily thing.

Let God continue to work in you so you can be free. We were just talking earlier about just the way that Jesus performed different means. you're closer at the Bible and some of them were instantaneous and some of them required a little bit more work. It didn't happen on the spot for certain people. So letting the Lord take his time with you as you're healing because sometimes we want to just walk out of it and be like, I don't look like what I've been through. But sometimes you're going to look like what you've been through and that's okay until you get to the place where you look like, yeah, a conqueror. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're 28, right? Yes. 28. Okay, do you feel like you're 28? I don't.

How old are you feel? Um, according to my granny, I do feel like I'm in my late 40s, spirit-wise, but I'm obviously very young and very vibrant at all the things. And so, yeah. No, I wonder, because you have accomplished so much, but then also you've been exposed to so much and you carry so much. Yeah. At your age, how do you feel like, you know, the next 30, 40, 50, 60? You know what I mean? Like, how do you feel like you want to show up in these next?

decades of your life armed with as much wisdom and experiences you have? Yeah. I don't know, even though I don't know what it looks like, I do know that I want to just continue to thrive in who I was created to be, never get comfortable, never become content, you know. I want to always just climax in destiny, in my gifts and all of that, evolve as an individual inside out, growing as a friend, as a daughter, all these things, living a well-rounded life.

And that's my goal. Do you have any fears or insecurities as you look out into the future? Not really. Because I have accomplished a lot and I know God is not done, there's still that thought of, God, you've already done this. you came out the game swinging. What could be next? What's next?

And honestly, every time I ask that, he always shows me, yeah, I'm too big for you to figure out, there's so much I have in store for you. I feel like that's so, I've had an accelerated life too, and I think that that's one of the things I'm like, Lord, I didn't see someone.

And then I'd be like, don't take me out. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because once you've experienced so much, it's like what's left, but I do feel like we're in a changing of the times, even as we see like technology change

and people's habits and patterns change. And I feel like to be alive at this time and in this era is a promise that God is going to allow you to see the innovation and cutting edge next that isn't going to look like anything we've seen before. Exactly. And we also have to know what that looks like in different seasons of our lives. Because sometimes we think that because we were, you know, prospering in this area for so many times,

you know, that's the way, that's the area that it's supposed to be, you know, for the rest of our lives. No, that's, God is still going to have that under control, but it's also like it's different areas,

especially when there's so many gifts in you. It's different areas that he wants to prosper you in. And you have to not be focused on, well, this is not working how it used to be. That's because you're floating. Yeah. You know, you're supposed,

once you get it to a certain place, it's supposed to work itself. Right. You know what I mean? And so now it's like, okay, I'm open to what other area. It could be in a book. It could be, you know, conference, whatever it is, just learning to be open to that and not being stuck on just one area.

Oh, I feel like that, like, embodies what it means to go rogue. It's like, it's really being open to however God wants to use this, even if it's different than something that we've experienced in the past. Yep, absolutely. Okay, I want to play a game. a game with you. Okay. This game we're calling The Thread Says, and we're going to read some of your threads and talk about

them. Okay. Okay. Okay. You said sometimes what feels like isolation is actually a strategic season preparing you for higher levels. What season were you in when you wrote that? I would say before this year came in, because I'm always in preparation for what God wants

to do next, and I find that a lot of times he has me in a place where it's quiet. I can literally feel when it's time for a sabbatical. And I'll be like, yep, can't talk to this person. I literally shut down because I have to hear him. I have to hear what's next or at least what he wants me to do now for what's next, if that makes sense. Yeah, for sure. Okay, you said you never realize how long a minute is until you're exercising. Baby, let me tell you something.

Tell me about it. Tell me about it. Listen, I have become a gym girlie, and I've realized a minute, they'd be like, you know, you got a minute to give people an encouragement word. Good. Yeah. You know, you got a minute on stage to speak. Mm-hmm. Good.

In that gym? Tell me about it. When you on that treadmill, that's that. Now, I don't even miss this. They're math. Y'all can add that one. Or when you're trying to be like, you got a minute to go. I'm like, I'm not.

I know you lie. But yeah, it's way different. I realize that in the gym, honey. It's rough. It's longer. It's, ugh. I have not seen the gym in some time, so I can't even add no contribution to that. Okay, the girls want to know, are you a morning person or do people need to give you space?

I'm not a morning person, but I'm also not a person where you have to give me space. Okay. Like, yeah, I'm a kind person that be up in my mom. morning. Yeah, very nice. Are you cooking or are you ordering every time? If it's at my house, I want some cooked.

I want to cook. If it's not like something that's real quick spare in the moment, yeah, let's cook because I eat out all the time. You know, you're on the road and all that. So yeah, let's get some good southern food. Are you an overthinker? At times.

At times? Yeah, about certain things. About certain things. Sometimes maybe you're working on working on something but you're putting more thought into it you're really overstressing it a little bit but I think yeah

it really depends on what it is though okay if you could only eat one meal for the rest of your life what would it be ooh that's hard I'm gonna say it'll either be salmon or hot wings salmon

Like, what's you putting on it? Well, you know, you can dress it up in different ways. Some days it can happen. Well, I'm not really a big sauce person. I don't like a whole lot going on with my food. Okay, all right, okay. But it really depends. You can grill it, you know, all those things.

One meal for the rest of your life. Pretty much, yeah. Salmon. Yeah, or anything seafood. Okay. Okay. What is a red flag you ignore too often? Uh.

Sometimes when people show you who they are, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Because especially when you're a kind person, it's like you try to give people the benefit of the doubt or you try to give them a chance, you know, be like, maybe they didn't mean it that way. Let's try to. But now, two times. Do you block people? Like, are you heavy on a block button?

I don't block people often. I think that takes a lot of energy. Social media, maybe. Yeah. But, like, personal life, not really. I'm in on social. On social. Because, you know, some people are very strict.

They'll block you in a minute. I'm becoming one of those people. I love it, too. I love it. Yeah, some people, they make that list. They do make that list. But you know what, that campaign to be on there. Exactly.

I don't just put you over there. Exactly. You sound like you want it to be over there. I don't understand why people don't really grasp the fact that if you don't like something, you can easily scroll by it. I do it all the time. That's how I know you can do it. Exactly.

Exactly. So block, yeah. Okay, this is going to be the hard one. Okay. And we're airing it no matter what you say. Okay. Okay. I need you to build your Mount Rushmore of singers.

Singers. Oohie. Okay. Goodness. I love the legends. So let's do some legends. Writers and singers. Donald Lawrence.

Okay. Shirley Caesar. we already know. C.C. Wynid's. Terinda Clark Cole. Period. Karen Clark's year. All the Clarks.

All the winters, really. Kirk Carr. It's so many. It's so many for me. C.C. Why I said the winery. The restaurant you can't have, but like four or five. You said all the Clarks,

and that's the whole mountain on the house. You know, you write about that. You write about that. It's so many. And even the younger, the younger legends, you got Jason Nelson, Brian Courtney Wilson, Kiera Shear, Tasha, I mean, it's so many. I don't know, I love my people. You know, I see what you did, though.

Yeah. I see what you did. Yeah, I gave you two. And you didn't limit yourself. Yes. You said, you know what? Everybody, everywhere in Jesus' name. Okay, this is our last one.

I need you to fill in the blank. I knew I was evolving when. I started to break negative cycles. I had to realize where it started, what I needed to do, because I knew where I wanted to be. Period. Yeah.