Woman's Hour - Adele Roberts, Homes for Ukraine - Judith and Oksana, Sylvia Young, Ruth Dodsworth

Episode Date: May 5, 2022

Radio 1’s Adele Roberts won Radio Times’ Moment of the Year award at the Audio and Radio Industry Awards this week, for the moment when she spoke to her listeners about being diagnosed with bowel cancer. She joins Emma to talk about her ongoing treatment and how she’ll celebrate when it’s done.Judith Hutchinson has been trying to house Ukrainian citizen Oksana Melashchuk and her two children for several weeks now. Oksana’s visa finally came through yesterday, and both women are able to join Emma from Judith’s house in Hampshire.This week a law professor wore an identical dress to the Queen of Spain while receiving an award from her. Have you ever turned up to an event in the same outfit as someone else? Were you mortified or did you style it out? We hear your experiences and Emma asks Lisa Armstrong, head of fashion at The Telegraph for her tips on how to handle it.50 years since its humble beginnings in the East End of London, the Sylvia Young Theatre School has worked with and trained the likes of Dua Lipa, Daniel Kaluuya and a ‘very naughty’ Amy Winehouse. Now 82, Sylvia Young tells us how the school got its name, why she expelled her own daughter and offers a few insights into her long list of notable alumni.It’s been just over a year since the former husband of ITV presenter Ruth Dodsworth was jailed for coercive controlling behaviour and stalking. In a new ITV Tonight programme ‘Controlled by My Ex Partner? The Hidden Abuse', Ruth explores the crime of coercive control and what needs to be done to stop it.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme, peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, I'm Emma Barnett and welcome to Woman's Hour from BBC Radio 4. Good morning and welcome to the programme. And there is the most wonderful photo I have to tell you about straight away. It is just brilliant and hopefully it will raise a smile once I describe it. It's the photo of two women together, a law professor receiving an award from the Queen of Spain, wearing the exact same dress as each other. Yes, upon receiving her award,

she discovers that they've both opted for a black and white number from Mango. Really gorgeous, monochrome, they're standing next to each other, opted for similar shoes. It's £59.99 if you're interested. Other brands are available but what a moment and you I'm sure if you've not been in this scenario others that you

know have when you've gone somewhere especially when you've really dressed up or you've tried to make a statement or you've made an effort and you're wearing exactly the same thing and I would love to hear about some of those moments from you today how did you feel did you style it out did out? Did you go over to each other? Did you own it? Have the photo? Apparently, that's what we should be doing. I was talking to the head of fashion from The Telegraph, Lisa Armstrong. You'll hear from her a bit later in the programme. That's what she's saying you need to do at that moment. Or did you avoid each other at all costs as you were absolutely mortified? When have you been wearing the same thing as someone else like these two women? One a queen, one a law professor,

both wearing the same dress in the same way and with one receiving an award from the other. It's just such a brilliant image. So many people are sharing it. I wanted to share it with you. Text me here at Women's Hour on 84844. Text will be charged at your standard message rate or on social media.

We're at BBC Women's Hour or email4844. Text will be charged at your standard message rate or on social media. We're at BBC Women's Hour or email me through our website. Also on today's programme, I'll be joined by the award-winning Adele Roberts of Radio 1. She's used to being the host, but going to be the guest today. With good calls, you'll hear more soon. ITV Weathers' Ruth Dodson

will be talking to us all about her most personal TV appearance to date and the legend that is Sylvia Young, responsible for training the likes of Amy Winehouse, Dua Lipa and Billy Piper and many others at her theatre school on 50 years of doing so. A legend and many legends to talk about who've been through her classroom doors.

But first, a reality which has brought the war in Ukraine into sharp focus again. It is believed 200 civilians, including women and children, are presently sheltering inside a large steelworks in the port of Mariupol, as a Ukrainian commander says there's been very heavy fighting with Russian forces who've entered the site. Ukraine's President Zelensky has appealed to the United Nations to help rescue them. The UN says more than 300 civilians were evacuated from Mariupol and other areas in southern Ukraine yesterday. While talking about those who have managed to escape and managed to try and find refuge

elsewhere, you may recall exactly a week ago that I spoke to Judith Hutchinson, who was impatiently waiting for the Ukrainian citizen, Oksana Malyshuk, who had fled Ukraine with her two children, to be granted a visa and be able to join her at her home in Hampshire. And I did say to Judith, would she come back on? Would she keep in touch? And she very kindly agreed to do so. And I'm extremely pleased to say that that has finally happened in terms of Oksana making it to Judith's home. And I can talk to Judith and Oksana now. Good morning and welcome to Women's Hour.

Oksana, in particular to you. Good morning. Nice to hear you. It's nice to talk to you because last week when I was having this conversation with Judith, she was on her own waiting and wanting you to be there. Yes, we wait for a long time for visa. So we're happy to be here now. And you were able to be together from yesterday, Judith. Is that right?

Yes. So we heard on Tuesday that the permission to travel had been granted from the Home Office. And so Oksana, who was in Calais, said, I can come, I can come. And so we arranged the tunnel yesterday and we met her in Folkestone. Amazing.

And what was that moment like for you, Oksana? It was like a movie. It's not about for me because it was very strange. And of course, it was my first time in tunnel. And I was very happy to see Judith and her husband because I have no idea how to drive in London. How to drive in London. And of course, with your two children as well.

Yes, yes. They're very happy. My older one is playing now, so he's very glad to have a big house and good people near him. How did you sleep last night? I had to wake her up this morning. Really?

I think you could be allowed a lie-in after the experience that you've... Come on, Judith. I mean, give Oksana a bit of slack here. But I suppose my point was it must have been so lovely, Oksana, to know you were where you were trying to be. How was that for you did you did you I suppose feel um feel safe uh yes it is really um it is a very good um experience because uh it's a very quiet place. We believe in Judith. And

I know Judith, so it's good for me. I feel safe with my children. Judith, how are you feeling today and how are you feeling yesterday to be reunited in the UK? Well, of course we were so delighted that it eventually came through

after it was really a needless wait. But anyway, here we are. And from now, I suppose we are going to find a way of how we live together. Yes, because I mean, we did, we of course went through some of the detail last week, and I won't revisit all of that. Because it I mean the the amazing thing Oksana is to be able to talk to you and to hear from you today but I also am aware from Judith that you were getting really desperate and it was something you know there were there was a report saying that you were considering perhaps having to go back to Ukraine. Yes I really think I will go back. And I thought about it in this week because I have no visa and I don't want to stay in Korea for a long time.

So I really thought about it. Yes, which of course, when we're hearing what's happening in Ukraine, you know, is not obviously what you at this moment want to do and what you were trying to do and trying to achieve. I just also wanted to ask about your family, your husband, who is still in Ukraine. How is he? It's not safe because I told Judith just yesterday, a Russian bombed my native town in Dnipro. My husband, it's OK, but it's not safe to live in this place, of course. It's not safe to live with children because you can't move so fast too high when the sirens are out.

So it's not safe, of course. It must be very difficult to to plan at the moment especially i know you've only just arrived here in the uk but do you do you have any idea you or you or judith about how long you may be living together have you thought about that well i did ask you yesterday oksana in your head how long do you think you will be here and i think you said two or three months couple months that's that's what you're working with we we don't know what i love is because i can actually see you on video call is if both of you are smiling so much you see judith it's so nice because i obviously saw you last week your face was not in a smile and now and now

and now there is just the loveliest smile on your face. It's obvious how happy and relieved you are, Judith. Well, I'm very pleased that it's ended this way for Oksana because her accommodation in Calais was coming to an end today. And I think you did say that you had thought about going back today. Yes, yes, yes. And so the visa did come in time in time yeah what time did you what time did you wake Oksana up this morning Judith come on did you let

her have a bit of a lion well you you were on to me Emma get her up it's true is it oh gosh it's our fault oh no have you got any any plans for today I mean it's maybe it's our fault. Oh, no. Have you got any plans for today? I mean, maybe it's best to think day to day in such a scenario at the moment. Any nice plans? We have many plans. All of them is with our children. I mean, to did form for school. A school.

For older one. And we should... Go to and we should go to GP. Okay, because two children and we have many plans with them. Yes, I wish you luck with that. The baby is behind on her vaccine, so we're keen to get that moving again. Well, that's wonderful, I suppose, as well. Oksana, have you ever been to the UK before this? No, no.

It's my first time. What a first time. I mean, it's extraordinary. And of course, as I talked about there in what we're hearing in the news about Mariupol and a lot of people you know never never thought it would go on this long some thought it thought it would I mean how how are you feeling about what's happening in Ukraine at the moment it's terrible it's terrible of course it's I think sometimes I don't believe that it's true.

It's a nightmare or something because we're very peaceful, actually. I'm Ukrainian, so it's not usual for us. Well, I can only say, you know, welcome, if I can put it like that. I can't believe it's your first time to the UK and it's under these circumstances. I don't know Judith that well, but I feel like we've already bonded, Judith. You've been on twice. You're going to be coming back. You know that. I'll be making sure you wake up early again. But Judith, you know, well done to you, if I can say that as well, because as we mentioned last week, you know, you'd helped drive Oksana some of the way, you'd already met each other. It's, you know, a lot of people wanting to help at the moment, but are finding it hard or not knowing how. But I know through your son and some of the way you'd already met each other. It's, you know, a lot of people wanting to help at the moment, but are finding it hard or not knowing how.

But I know through your son and some of his work, you'd found a route in and a way to do that. But it's also, you know, it's an extraordinary thing to be able to do, Judith. Yes. But also I have lots of friends who have already brought cooked meals for me and toys. So it's not just me.'s it's the community really so um well that's lovely we're very grateful for that yeah well i'm gonna let you get on with with what sounds like um you know lots of jobs to do one of those days of jobs and probably many ahead but also some fun i hope as well oksana thank you so much for coming on the programme. Thank you. And I wish you all the best.

Thank you so much. And Judith, we're going to talk again. I can feel it. Oksana, I hope to as well, but we'll let Oksana get on with some of those tasks that she's got to sort, not least, of course, getting sorted at the GP, which many of you will have your own experiences of that,

certainly not in the same scenarios, but it's an important job to do, especially with getting up to date with inoculations. Judith and Oksana there with the latest on that story and something we will, of course, I'm sure, keep returning to with our reports and our insights with regards to Ukraine and especially what's happening there and how it's affecting women and children. And we were speaking only earlier in the week to activists on the Russia side of things who are opposing the war. And so our reports will

continue. But many of you, I have to say, getting in touch already in response to that photo that I mentioned, something to make you smile this morning as well. Of course, I'm sure that story will also give you that, albeit with a very difficult backdrop, talking about when you've been in the same room with someone wearing the same outfit or the same dress or whatever it is after this amazing photo of the Queen of Spain giving an award to a law professor who happened to rock up in the same dress.

It's quite the image. Do look it up. We'll share it online on our social media. I was at boarding school in the sixth form. We were allowed to wear our own schools as a clothes, excuse me, for Sunday lunch. I'd saved my pocket money for ages, bought what I thought was a lovely pink and floral skirt.

I thought it was lovely. Lunchtime came in. In walked our maths teacher wearing exactly the same. Oh, your teacher. Okay, that's another level. We perceived all teachers as old at the time. I was mortified and I never wore it again. No name on that message.

Another one. I wasn't wearing the same as someone else. I was wearing the same fabric as the upholstery. 1980s, wearing a floral jacket, met a friend in a London pub and all the seating was upholstered in the same fabric. I styled it out. Much hilarity from the locals. Absolutely love that, Rosemary. thank you so much for that. Rosemary, that's just brilliant. I'm just picturing that.

My mother went to a wedding, had the same outfit as the mother of the bride. She hid at the back of the church. Well, you would. Sorry, you just would in that instance. You can't be doing that. You need to go home at that point and change. A few years ago, I turned up at a mayor's ball in the same gown from Monsoon as another guest. I spoke to her, complimented her on her excellent taste, and she reciprocated, I didn't see the need for any drama,

says Jane, who's listening in. Very good morning, I know very well. Same dress. The other woman was horrified. I approached her and said how I admired her taste. Amanda and Cornwall doing the same as Jane. It broke the ice and we both laughed. I wore the same outfit as the groom's mum at his wedding. Oh, here we go. I changed into the dress I travelled to the wedding

in, an old day dress, but I felt better for it. Yes, I'm sorry. I don't know if there is an option at that point. And my friend accidentally wore the same dress as me to my wedding. What? Did they wear their old wedding dress or were you wearing something completely different? I need more details on that one. No name, but keep those messages coming in, please. 84844. That's the number you need to get in touch or do so on social media. But my next guest is used to being the host, the on-air host. But today, she's the one being interviewed.

And the reason is she's just won the Radio Times Moment of the Year Award at the Radio Academy Awards, a.k.a aka the Oscars of the radio and audio industry, for a very moving and powerful moment on her Radio 1 programme when she shared for the first time with her listeners that she had bowel cancer and had undergone an operation. I am, of course, talking about Adele Roberts. Just before I go to Adele, let's have a listen to that clip, which was voted on by the public.

So, full disclosure, we're about to get to know each other very quick. So I've had some time off. I recently got diagnosed with bowel cancer. But the good news is they found the tumour. I've had surgery. They've taken it away. My body is on the mend and I'm here with you now. And I can't believe it because I was just saying to producer Tom, it's a month since I had my surgery and I've got goosebumps now. Just wow. A month on.

So I just want to say it's incredible what the body is capable of. It's a huge testament as well to the skill and knowledge and level of care of the NHS. They're amazing. I think I owe them my life. I can't thank them enough. And I just want to say as well, if you're listening to this and you're worried about anything, please do not suffer in silence.

Go and see your GP. That's what I did. And I think that's why I'm here today. And I'm just so grateful. So go and see them. They'll look after you. I promise. Adele Roberts, what a moment and

lovely to have you on Women's Hour good morning. Good morning Emma thank you so much for having me and thank you for playing me that I didn't really have the courage to listen back to it before now but it's it was a really special moment with with the Radio 1 listeners. Why did you decide at that point to to share it and to talk about it? I think it's because when I was first diagnosed with bowel cancer, it was a great shock. I didn't realise that people my age could get it when I first went to see my GP.

How old are you? Yeah, I'm 43. And when I went to see my GP, they actually said, you're probably too young to have bowel cancer. They thought it might just be digestive issues I actually got told at first it was piles so I was like okay nice nice yeah and then they gave me a home testing kit and we later found out that it was bowel cancer and it was just

really important for me to share that story with the listeners because I thought you know there might be other people out there that are experiencing the same symptoms as me and and need to get seen because early detection saves lives so the quicker they find the tumor the quicker they can get it out and hopefully get you back on the mend. How was it for you when you were diagnosed hearing it? Oh it was it was a shock I think to be honest I'm still in shock. It happened on the 1st of October last year and I wasn't expecting it. I just thought it would be some sort of digestive issue, maybe sensitivity of the gut. And I wasn't expecting them to say I had cancer. But luckily, in the same sentence, the doctor said there's something we can do about it. And that just made

me feel so much better because my initial thought was I thought I was going to die. Oh I can't imagine I mean obviously the the word cancer is terrifying you know and so many strides have been made but still that that nothing can prepare you I imagine for that moment when you hear it in connection to yourself. Yeah and and that's why I make it my mission really to talk about cancer, because I think the representation in the media that I'd seen before I got diagnosed was sadly a lot of the sad cases and terminal cancer. And I didn't realize that you could recover from cancer. I just didn't know too much about it. So I think it's important to have the conversation because one in two of us sadly will get cancer in our lifetime but I know that it affects everybody I feel like everyone

listening to this program today will know someone who's been affected by cancer so I think the more we talk about it hopefully the more of us can get seen when we need help. I love the way you took the listeners you know I think the most powerful thing about radio is that it is that one-to-one you know that conversation I always imagine one person that I'm talking to. It's often actually I imagine my late godmother, just her sitting there rolling her eyes probably. Half of what I'm saying, saying, just let the other person talk. But it's a very personal, intimate relationship, isn't it? And I love the way you said, right, we're going to get to know each other a bit better here.

What was the response once you said it on air? Oh, incredible. It took me all my strength not to cry and um as i said on the night at the radio academy awards i think that this journey has given me the language to be able to connect more with the listeners i feel closer to them than i've ever been and i just love the fact that people will get in touch and share their lives with me it's such a privilege and it really is because we should say you you've still been working radio one weekend breakfast and it's been important to you for your identity hasn't it absolutely yeah I think for my mental health and just for getting me out of bed at the weekends and and not like being too sad about the fact that the chemotherapy is really starting to hurt now.

Because you're still undergoing treatment, we should say. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So Radio 1 were brilliant. They allowed me to come back to work as soon as the doctor said I could. They made sure that the studios are safe for me. And also they said I could come back to work even though I'm on chemotherapy, which I think is another really important message to spread that um it doesn't always stop you living your life yes and and and I know that you've got the final round about to begin how are you feeling you're gearing up oh Emma I'm so excited um I'm actually I've just started my final cycle I should finish on the 16th of May and then I think shortly after that I'll have a scan and fingers crossed I'm cancer free. I just really hope I am. I'm crossing everything as well. But I do need to ask about Audrey.

Now, Audrey's not a new friend of yours or maybe you view it like that. But tell me about Audrey. Tell us all about Audrey. Yeah. So as part of my treatment for bowel cancer, once they remove the tum the tumor they need to let the bowel heal so I've got a stoma which is an ileostomy so it's basically my small intestine being brought to my stomach and that's how I now go to the toilet so I've not been to the toilet through my bottom since October which I'm quite enjoying actually it's quite convenient and the little stoma the little opening I've called her Audrey which was on the advice of the brilliant stoma nurses. They said, you know, if you can name your stoma, it gets you your mind used to the fact that you've got one and it helps you bond. And I love her. She's great. Hang on. Why Audrey? I need to understand that. Of all the names.

Yeah. There's nothing wrong to any of our listeners called Audrey, I just want to stress that. It's a brilliant name. It's a good choice. But why? Yeah, I accidentally called her Audrey Roberts after the character on Coronation Street. Love Audrey Roberts. My thinking was, you know, Little Shop of Horrors.

There's a plant in that play called Audrey, Audrey 2. And it's very greedy and it eats everything and it's very naughty. And that's how my stoma feels. So that's why she's called Audrey. I absolutely love that. It's quite poetic. Yeah.

We'll go with that. Beautiful. Audrey Roberts, though, great character to name after as well. I mean, you need to go and get a picture and do all of that as well. You've not just won one award this week. You've won two in the last few days, right? The Diva Awards, who celebrate inspirational people in the LGBT community. Tell us about that. Yeah, it's a huge lesbian magazine. And as a gay woman, it was just the most incredible

award to win. I've read Diva in secret since I was a kid because it used to be on the top shelf. For some reason, they put gay magazines on the top shelf. So I used to have to go and sneak and buy it and then read it in my house. And it's just important for magazines like Diva to exist because I think that when you're young and when you realize that you're gay,

you don't necessarily know other people that are gay. So it was vital to me to be able to read that magazine and see that there were other women like me. Well, they've rewarded you for being a trailblazer in broadcasting, bringing lesbian visibility to the heart of Radio 1, which is, I imagine, also an important part of, you know, when you're being honest, talking about who you are and having that bond with listeners.

Absolutely. I try to be that person that I needed when I was younger. There were some really brave and amazing women out when I was younger, but there's many more nowadays. I think it's getting so much better and I hope I can help all the young girls that are maybe going through the same thing. Now, we weren't wearing the same outfit the other night, were we, at the Radio Awards. I loved watching you win. You were quite emotional, rightly so. I teared up. You were just lovely on the stage, accepting it. But we weren't styling it out together, I don't think, in the same outfit.

You were looking very fetching in red. Thank you, yes. And I loved your dress, by the way. I don't really wear dresses, but you look stunning. I wasn't trawling around for that. I was just saying. Because I have to get your take. Have you styled it out and you've been dressed the same

as anyone? I was going to say I got messaged by Julia Hardy who works at Radio 1 and she had the same outfit but I just didn't see her. She actually had the same suit on. Did she?

So luckily I got away with it. I didn't even know. I love that. I absolutely love it. Well we're saying it's okay as long as you style it out today because this image is it's just an amazing one and many of our listeners taking up the mantle and getting in touch I just wanted to make sure we we spoke to you have you found it being the guest not the host you okay oh I've loved it

thank you you've been really kind to me I mean this is such an iconic show I was very nervous but you've been lovely thank you don't you be silly it was just lovely to have you on and adele all the best with it i'm rooting for you we all are and come back and tell us how you're getting on you and oh i'd love to thank you emma you and audrey you know yeah we'll be here i love that go think about that more than you know adele hobbits all the best to you and on the outfit front, this happened to my mum when my father went to get his OBE at Buckingham Palace. She thought it was funny, went over to talk to the other woman in the same dress, who turned her back

and walked off. Oh, come on. Bit of a sense of humour. We still laugh about it. Years ago, I had a lovely black dress, quite daring, as it had a lacy patch down the front. Nice. Went to a party where someone else was wearing it with the lacy part of the back, the right way. Zoe, fantastic. Oh, bit school. Did you go to the loo, flip it around or did you style it out for a bit longer? I love this subject because it happened to me at a

wedding of my son's best friend. Another mother of a friend turned up in the same floral dress. Diane and I knew each other well and were seated together at the reception. It wasn't awkward at all. We shrieked with laughter at the church and then pretended to be well and were seated together at the reception. It wasn't awkward at all. We shrieked with laughter at the church and then pretended to be senior bridesmaids at the reception. It all added to the happiness of the day. And that's from Donna. Thank you so much for that. A few years ago, I represented our company at Buckingham Palace for an international trade awards ceremony.

I've got very amazing listeners here going to Buckingham Palace all the time. When I met the Queen, we recognised we were both wearing the same shade of blue. With a big smile, Her Majesty said, good choice of colour. We both laughed. A memorable moment of connection for me, says Jacqueline.

There you go, Her Majesty. We'll get back to the palace in just a moment, as you will hear. I went to a wedding wearing a dress from Phase 8. I'd bought several weeks before and a friend arrived in the same dress bought previous day in the sale. After we got over the irritation,

we spent the day photobombing, standing either side of them and her husband called me Linda, her name, for hours, says Christine. And a lot of this seems to be with weddings. Let me read this final one. I went to a wedding wearing a very smart cream and blue number only to see another guest wearing exactly the same dress.

I was delighted to see someone wearing the same dress as me, except while I was in my 50s, she was in her 20s. There you go. And looked far from pleased to see someone so old, she says, in the same outfit or so old from her perspective, we should say, because it's someone so old wearing the same dress. I went up to her and said, snap. She smiled back but walked on. Oh, well, at least I could enjoy the fact that we were wearing the same thing, even if she didn't, says Helen. Good for you, Helen. Well, we're asking this question today

and having this conversation because a law professor turned up in an identical dress to the Queen of Spain, if you're only just joining us, while receiving an award from her, a mid-length black and white dress from Mango costing £59.99 and even more matching black heels. And the law professor, who's called Imakulada Vivastesen, was receiving an award for her work in support of disability rights. But the pair seemed to take it in good spirits, posing in

their matching dresses with lots of laughter. I've been speaking about this with Lisa Armstrong, head of fashion at The Telegraph, who, just to keep with the palace theme we seem to have got here going on, she had her own trip to the palace yesterday to receive an OBE. And I started by asking how it feels to have a new title. It feels really nice.

I bet it does. I don't know when I'll be able to use the OBE, but it is, yeah, it's very, I feel very honoured. For services to fashion and journalism, is that right? I think it's just fashion. I think the journalism might still have to work on that. Okay. Well, you don't know when to use it, but I've just dropped it in there. So let's get comfortable with it because this, you know, it's quite a nerve-wracking thing to to go to the palace to receive such an award you have to think about what to wear and I'll come back to your experiences in just a moment and how to present yourself and also what to say in that quick moment of chat but crossing over to Spain we see this

amazing image of someone receiving an award from the Queen of Spain wearing exactly the same dress what did you make of this? I love this picture. I mean, they're both laughing. They're both sort of doing what you can only do in those situations, which is embrace it. And because it's such a distinctive dress, isn't it? It's black one side, white the other. There's no way you can dress that dress to make it look different and um and yeah good for them they if there was any remaining stigma in turning up somewhere and wearing the same thing then I think I think they've dispelled it do you think there is still stigma because for some people it's utterly mortifying especially when it's a special day yes I know I I know and I've I've had that experience too um I think yes I think you have a moment when you think, I just I can't believe it, especially as you've taken a lot of trouble over it. I think there's always that risk when it's when it's when it's a really popular high street name like Mango. Yes, because this is this is affordable from a royal perspective, isn't it? Fifty nine mango this dress exactly but yeah so you do you have a little um intake of

breath and then you tell yourself to get over it pull yourself together and um grab a phone and take a selfie with whoever else is wearing the same outfit and you know everybody enjoys it when's it happened to you oh my gosh it's happened several times. It happened. It happened. Well, it happened very recently when I when I was wearing gingham trousers, sort of big check, tablecloth check trousers. And there were at least two other women at the event in the same fabric, but wearing different styles. That was fine. We got together. We did the shot. good it happened to me a few years ago when I thought I was wearing a really unusual dress and it was it was a few years old somebody in exactly the same dress we did the selfie fine we looked then you look as though you're in control you almost look as though you planned it and then Emma it happened to me yesterday um when I was I I was wearing the same sort of hairband hat as somebody else. No, at the palace this happened.

At the palace. Lisa, come on. I mean, you're getting it for fashion services here. Well, listen, I know, I know. But, you know, so I was in fashion, Emma, right? You know, somebody else was wearing the same hat. We were in fashion. So we smiled at each other and nodded and went about our our duties well very good how was it how did it go

it's so nerve-wracking it's the most nerve-wracking thing I've done in a very long time and I can't really explain properly why but I think it's because you have to fill in all these forms beforehand and I was really worried that I'd filled them in wrongly or I'd sent them in too late and I was suddenly going to be banned and then of course you know what to wear and because I was getting it for fashion there is extra pressure there is extra pressure you looked beautiful for what I saw you had a blue dress on which I won't have described nearly as well as you but well I think pale blue gets it pretty bright and um and nobody else is wearing that that's that same dress so that was I was very happy about no I I think um I think what what what it's like is that they are so they it is

incredible at the palace because all those um all the staff and they're all sort of blinged up to the nines in their regimental uniforms a lot of them but they're so nice and they're all sort of blinged up to the nines in their regimental uniforms, a lot of them, but they're so nice. And they do their utmost to put everyone at ease. And then they do this wonderful thing where they sort of, they have to herd, you know, 75 people and their plus ones. And choreograph us so that we're in the right spot to be pinned and do our little curtsy and walk backwards and all that stuff at the right moment. And you're sort of missile guided every step of the way. There's somebody in a uniform who sort of practically twizzles you into the right direction.

Who awarded you? Princess Anne. So I was very happy about that because I am a fan of hers and we've documented her style a lot at the Telegraph um especially you know in her in her younger days she was really quite the fashion envelope pusher and um and also she's a really great upcycler recycler way before it was fashionable and um I like her rhinos. Did have a nice conversation how was it well I mean I don't know whether she would have thought it was a nice conversation but um yes she she asked some

some some perceptive questions and um and looked quite amused when I when I told her that we um we admire her style because she was in she was in uniform um It wasn't her snazziest look, I have to say. I mean, you know, if we're being honest. Well, you've got to be. I mean, this is the service to fashion OBE here. But no, it's good. And you get a good old look around those state rooms. So to be clear, it wasn't Princess Anne who had the same headgear on as you.

You were not matching the member quality. She wasn't wearing headgear. I thought, what's this all about? We have to wear headgear. She wasn't wearing Anne who had the same headgear on as you you were not matching the member royalty she wasn't wearing headgear I thought what's this all about we have to wear headgear she wasn't wearing headgear and what I did well actually my mum noticed in one of the state rooms you know they're very very grand and gilded and there's incredible works of art everywhere and then saw little three bar electric heater which was wonderful just a homely touch that you sort of, sort of we've come to expect from our royal family. As a woman who is always cold, I'm very happy to hear that. It wasn't on there, Matt. It wasn't on.

Oh, okay. Well, there you go. Just then to go back to looking the same, wearing the same. I love the fact that this happened to you, not with the member of the royal family that you were being awarded by yesterday, but by somebody else who's there on their special day. It seems you think we're past it being awkward now, as long as you own it and have the photo. The photo seems quite key. Just for any advice for anyone listening.

Listen, I know there'll be some people listening, rolling their eyes at all these selfies. They don't do selfies, but if you do do them or if you do Instagram or anything like that it's just quite fun and then you sort of it's like the elephant in the room and you've you've got on top of the elephant and you're having a really good ride of the elephant um you know what a nice thought Lisa I'm gonna put that in my mind and and keep with it and because I think the other thing to say is we know there's going to be many many many weddings this summer because so many have been delayed and people are rather frantically trying to find, you know, something to wear that will be unique, they hope, and all of that. So I think we will hear more of this,

but it's pretty rare to hear about it with the Queen of Spain. And, you know, they look, as you say, they look amazing together. They really do. Yes, I do. I think Queen Letizia and the other woman wearing that dress did a great service to fashion yesterday. Well, seemingly so did you, OBE, Lisa Armstrong. Off you go to the next appointment. Thank you for talking to us.

A pleasure. Thank you. Lisa Armstrong, newly minted OBE, head of fashion at The Telegraph. Tim says, with regards to wearing the same outfits as a bloke, I'd be mortified if I wasn't wearing the same type of suit as everyone else at a formal gathering. Quite. Although this doesn't always happen to men in quite the same way. I do recall my husband wearing a cream or whitish blazer at one point, a linen affair.

It was very nice. I liked it. Until, of course, the man serving us on our honeymoon, the waiter, was wearing exactly the same and he just looked like he needed to join in the shift. He's worked at many pubs and bars over the years, but it was quite a moment. Another one here I love from Wilma.

Upholstery's becoming a theme as well as palaces and weddings. My daughter came out of school on her first day shouting Mummy, my teacher's blouse is the same as our bathroom curtains. Thank you, Laura Ashley. This was in the 70s. Wilma, thank you for that.

Keep those messages coming on 84844. Those moments where you found yourself in the same outfit. Now, for ITV Wales viewers, she is a sunny presence on the screen, delivering the weather news. But her smile for many years was hiding deep pain and fear. For Ruth Dodsworth was in a marriage with a man who was controlling, abusing and harassing her. Just over a year ago, her ex-husband, the father of her children, was jailed for three years after being found guilty of coercive and controlling behaviour and stalking. Despite a lifetime restraining order, Ruth is now concerned about his release, which could be later this year.

And in a new ITV Tonight programme called Controlled by My Ex-Partner, The Hidden Abuse, Ruth explores the crime, which is still a relatively recent crime, of coercive control. Let's just hear a clip of it before I talk to her. This is some footage from a police body camera of her ex-husband's arrest. What's happened last night, mate? What do you mean? Well, she's called us this morning. Yeah.

Saying that you were quite persistent on the phone last night. She's my wife. I know, but 200 times, you're going to have to be arrested, mate. Why? Because of harassment. That's a lot of phone calls. Let me speak to her. Ray! Ray! Ray! Stay there, all right? You're under arrest, mate. Bye-bye. Ruth Dodsworth listening to that of course good morning Hi there good morning to you how are you?

I'm okay and I have to say I was able to watch a preview of the film last night so I'm aware of what's in it and I'm very aware of your story and I want to help share that with our listeners today which I know is a big piece of work for you because you want to help others. And also perhaps if someone's in this situation right now to act and to think about things differently. But if I could just start where that footage is. I mean, you chose to have that included in the film. And I know we've just shared it there. But what was it like seeing and hearing that for the first time? Do you know it's hard to put into words because actually that's the first time I've

seen and heard his voice seen his face since he was arrested. I've only recently viewed this footage as well and I think if you listen closely what you get is a sense of you know the police officer bearing in mind this was at half past eight in the morning he had basically been on a what we call sort of a 24 hour rampage and it was the night before when my children were ringing me saying don't come home he's he will kill you which is obviously why I wasn't there he kept on calling calling calling I mean that was just you know the police officer there says 200 times, but actually the reality was it was far more calls than that. It was constant. And I think, you know, what you can hear him saying is it's not harassment. She's my wife. She's my wife.

And that was very much the sort of the pattern of it, if you like. I was his wife. I was his possession. And that effectively gave him absolute right to treat me as he wanted. You mentioned your children there. You were together for nearly 20 years, married for 18. Were they key? Was their reaction key in you making a change? I think absolutely spot on, yes. I mean, I'd lived with this man for nearly 20 years.

My children had grown up in an abusive relationship they'd seen they'd heard far more than any child should should have to witness with it with their own parents and you know for years and years and years you you sort of you kid yourself that they don't see things they don't hear things but actually they do um and I I you know over the years remember you know locking us in the bathroom bathroom, myself and my two kids and sort of promising them that I would get us out of this. And for so many reasons, actually getting out of that situation is so much harder. But, you know, my children are and have been absolutely incredible. But I live, I suppose, as so many parents do in this situation with the guilt that, you know, I didn't get them out of that sooner. But I think, you know, to be told by your own children not to come home because their dad, your husband, is going to kill you is pretty much the point of no return.

And I think that for me, that was the wake up call I needed. And, you know, there was no going back after that. And yet you do have this public role. And I know maybe it's a stereotype, but we do associate cheeriness and happiness with our weather presenters. You bring us, you know, in the country, especially, you know, I say the United Kingdom, I'm only talking in Wales. You bring us some of the most important news, let's be honest um how the weather will be what was that like having to perform and um and and contend with what was going on because i also know you know from from the film from your journalism that he he would also accost you on the way to work on the way home from work would be checking phone calls there was there was a lot of noise around you yeah and you know that i think that's a brilliant way of putting it. I mean,

as you say that there's this, I suppose this expectation, if you like, that, you know, the sunny weather person on the telly, you know, life is butterflies and rainbows. And, you know, I'm absolutely living proof that never judge book by its cover. You know, you just do not know what is going on behind closed doors and in people's lives. I mean, I, to all intents, I had what I sort of jokingly call the sort of Instagram lifestyle in a sense. I had the lovely home, I had the car, the beautiful children, but it was all, I guess, for lack of a better word, it was all a complete and utter, it was a fabrication and it was a lie because I would

leave home in the morning and drive to work in tears with my ex-husband constantly ringing me. I mean, from the minute I left the house, in a sense, I was out of his grip. So the only way he could control was to ring, was to effectively, I was under 24-hour surveillance in a sense. I'd get to work, like yourself, you know, this sort of persona then that you have to sort of, well, I suppose plaster on. I'd sit in this little dressing room for 20 minutes, compose myself, plaster on the makeup and then go and smile in front of the cameras. And I think I just got so good at doing that. I got so good at hiding the reality from, well, I, you know, I hid it.

I hid it from my family, from my friends, from my work colleagues. And I suppose to a certain extent, I hid it from myself too, actually, to pretend that it wasn't happening in a sense was easier. And then I'd get in the car and cry all the way home and the cycle would start again. So it was living a lie. But it was also incredibly important. I wanted to make this point that you worked and that you earned because you were earning the money for the house. Well, this is part of the problem and is one of the reasons that, you know, so many people do not get out of abusive relationships. Part of coercive controlling behaviour, which is a type of domestic abuse, but it's sort of a

hidden, almost underground, insidious form of abuse. So, you know, it might not be physical. In my case, it was physical, but, you know, not everyone will have bruises to show, but the isolation, the financial isolation. So, you know, for example, my salary would go in each month and the first thing he would do is take it out. And then suddenly, you know, I didn't have my bank card I didn't have access to to sort of any money at all he would effectively give me money each day to go for lunch if I think the fear was that if I had access to money that gave me access to the outside world and access to other people so cutting that off in a sense made me almost wholly dependent on him and it sounds it sounds incredibly naive doesn't it to you know

for goodness sakes you must you must have had money you must have been able to go and access your own money I I didn't and I got used to not having access to that money I think what your film shows we're having talked to other women is is what you get used to quite quickly almost as a new norm and then because you aren't talking to anyone and a lot of people don't uh you don't have that check that this isn't right and and isn't good i mean i should say and you do say this again in the film that you're smiling for real a lot more nowadays it's yeah you're in a better place and that'll matter a lot to our listeners to to hear that and for me to ask you how you are now i think you know it was interesting listening to Adele earlier.

Each and every one of us has something going on in our lives, don't we? And again, what goes on behind closed doors, what happens to people that we don't necessarily realise? And it can be truly, truly horrendous. But I lived in an abusive relationship for nearly 20 years but I am alive and I am well and I am absolutely well first and foremost so so lucky to be here to be alive to be talking to be using my voice as a voice for perhaps those who can't but I think the message that I a bit like Adele in a sense want to get out is that it doesn't matter how bad your situation is, how horrendous it is. There can be life beyond. And as you said, you know, I am now living a really, really lovely and happy life. And I get up every day and I smile and I go to work. And,

you know, what you see now is what you get when I smile on the telly. I absolutely mean it. And I'm learning to relive what most people would call a normal life I've got a new relationship a new in fact a new husband and my children are happy I am happy and you know life is good it's not easy and there are certain realities day-to-day things that you know we've just got to to get to get on with in a sense but well it's a very valid point as well to to stress that how lucky you feel to actually be here telling this story having survived it uh and and you know your film this evening as well as being educational i should say it's on at 8 30 this evening on itv1 the documentary is called controlled by my ex-partner the hidden abuse uh is is testament

to to being able to use your voice and talk to other women, and especially on behalf of some of those who cannot so tragically speak for themselves. But Ruth, I'm really grateful that you could come and talk to us all today. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. I suppose just as a final, domestic abuse can happen to absolutely anyone. It happened to to me and here I am living a happy life so if I can if I can get out of it and survive it then so can you. Ruth Doddsworth thank you and I should say on the Women's Hour website there are links to organisations that can help. Now I've just been joined in the studio by a bit of a legend I think we can safely say

50 years half a century a significant amount of time. That is how long the legendary Sylvia Young Theatre School has been going and what talent it has spawned having started life offering part-time classes to becoming a full-time school. Emma Bunton, Dua Lipa and of course Amy Winehouse all trained there to name only three of many. But 82 years young, Sylvia Young, good morning. I don't know if you see what I did there. Hello. Good morning. Thank you for joining me and talking to us today. How are you feeling about the 50 years? I'm quite relieved we've reached 50 years. Been quite a busy time, but yeah, very, very happy to think to reach 50. Why did you want to start

the school in the first place? Well at the time I had the part-time classes and naturally a number of them the students wanted to perhaps pursue full-time theatre training and at that time there wasn't a school that offered all three of the things they should offer good good academics good vocational training and professional opportunity some offered one of them two of them but not three and when one of the venues I had part-time classes became available during the week, a friend of mine who actually worked in the state system said, why don't we? So we did. So you did. And, you know, the names that have passed through the doors, I mean, there's many we also I know won't have heard of

and perhaps have gone on to do different things, but we'll have still also got a lot from the lessons. But it's an extraordinary alumni list. Yes, I think we've done... Our students have done very well. They definitely have done well. And as you say, there are so many that are working professionally, regularly in TV series that maybe not be household names at the moment, but certainly they are succeeding.

Are there some qualities that you look for and have looked for over the years where you just know, you can't always guarantee, of course, commercial success, but that they've got something? And what does that look like? I think you know sometimes I interview a child for a full-time place and it could be just as simple as wanting to smile back at that child. A child who has some warmth or charisma it need not necessarily show as amazing talent, but obviously we look for potential and trainability. But sometimes there's something in a child's character

that comes through. I also like to see when they read something for me, they can lift the words off the page to express themselves. But you can't always tell. I mean, some you do think, God, this child could really do well. But there's so many more things that attribute to success. Talent, the opportunity to be in the right place at the right time, the right stepping stone.

Yes. And I suppose the other thing to say, which will have changed over the years that you've been doing this is the rise of television contests, talent contests and the idea of being famous overnight and making it. I think a number of children do come with that idea but we hopefully do let them know that it's not going to happen that fast or for everyone. And we try to keep their feet on the ground. I mean, I don't encourage any of my students to enter the talent contest, these at AV. But if they want to do it, we don't say no.

I mean, it is their choice. But we very often when companies ring me and say, have you got someone for The Voice? I say, well, they'll find you if they want to. Why don't you think they should do those contests? I know you're not blocking them, but... No, I think sometimes things shouldn't happen when they're so young. It's better to wait until they're a little bit more mature. And the pressure, I suppose, it's quite binary.

You're either winning it at the judges' houses or whatever, or you're not. Yes. A lot of pressure in the public eye. Absolutely. Amy Winehouse, I mentioned, and there's an excerpt of part of her application online to your school. And she talked about wanting to go somewhere where she was stretched right to her limits, to sing in lessons without being told to shut up, provided they are singing lessons, very insistent. And also I have this dream to be very famous. I want people to hear my voice. You know, huge ambition in there. Absolutely. She was amazing, actually. She was very clever. I don't think people realise how clever she was. We put her up a year and even then she was bored in the academic classes and she did give our academic teachers a bit of a hassle, except for the English teacher

who thought she'd be a journalist, a writer. Of course, vocational was different. I mean, you couldn't avoid seeing how talented she was. Did you keep in touch with people like Amy? Yes. In fact, she sent her goddaughter to the school and actually paid for her to attend, which was lovely, yes. We spoke quite often on the phone. I don't think she visited.

She always said she was going to pop in, but we did speak very often. And I suppose that bond for you with those pupils has been important once they leave as well. Do they feel that they can have that link back with you and it kind of grounds them perhaps with what else is going on? Yeah, I mean, I do get a lot of visits from ex-students. Obviously, there are some that are so busy and travelling around and doing everything. I can't expect them to find that much time. But I think many students have left with fond memories of the school.

That's important. Are you partial to a bit of the Spice Girls? You did train Emma Bunsen. Is that a soundtrack you indulge in? they wanted to change their first management and they came to see me in my rather tacky school school studio and they sang for me because they wanted me to perhaps suggest another manager I did suggest someone but then they found the their new manager and then hit the heights there you go and and is it right you expelled your own daughter from the school? Yes. Wow. I mean, I was going to ask if you were strict, but what went on there? Well, basically, when we opened the school,

majority of the students came from my part-time classes and they were her mates, her friends. And she found it very difficult to accept her mother disciplining her friends. And she gave me a very hard time very demanding so in the end I got her a tutor at home because obviously she started at the wrong age she was in her last year of school and she was 15 nearly 16 so this was not quite the time for her to you know start a new school and a mum being headteacher.

Well, I know that you like to keep people's feet on the ground, but even including your own daughter. I'm very impressed. Well, yeah, it wasn't working. No. And you're not actually called Sylvia Young. Is that right? Is that the stage name? I suppose you can call it that. Now my real name is Sylvia Raphael. That's my married name but the very

first little company I had all from the little local primary school Watersbrook Primary we did an old time musical, Shana, to raise money for a swimming pool and

they used to call me well they always call me Sylvia but I used to get calls, they were called the Aldersbrook Youngins, being an old time East End group and I'd get

calls asking for Mrs Youngen or sometimes, even horribly, Mrs Ruffles Juveniles. Oh, well, there you go. That didn't quite have the same ring to it, Mrs Ruffles Juveniles Theatre School. So I became Sylvia Young, and sometimes I do forget who I am. Well, we're not going to forget that this morning on the programme.

It's lovely to have you. Congratulations on building such an amazing institution. You know, it's legendary for people. And even if you don't know anything about that world, you will have heard of where those people have come from. And of course, as you say, some have stayed in touch with you and kept that link. Sylvia Young, good morning.

Thank you to you. Lovely to be with you. Thank you to all of you at home and being with us today. So many wonderful stories, I have to say, still coming in about being dressed the same, styling it out, owning that moment.

Very grateful to you indeed. You've given us a big smile today and we'll be back tomorrow at 10. That's all for today's Woman's Hour. Thank you so much for your time. Join us again for the next one. Hello, I'm Lucy Worsley and I want to tell you about Lady Killers. Women's Hour. Thank you so much for your time. Join us again for the next one. With a female team of experts, I am re-examining the crimes of Victorian murderesses through the eyes of 21st century feminists. What can we learn from these women and would it be any different today?

Listen to Ladykillers on BBC Sounds. I'm Sarah Trelevan, and for over a year, I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who's faking pregnancies. I started, like, warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this?

What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.