Woman's Hour - Alina Ibragimova, Food poverty, Jayson Greene

Episode Date: May 22, 2019

Four years ago, two year old Greta Greene was killed by a piece of falling masonry while out with her grandmother. Her father, Jayson, has written a memoir ‘Once More We Saw Stars’. He discusses how he has dealt with his grief and loss. Violinist Alina Ibragimova famously performed Bach’s complete sonatas and partitas at the BBC Proms in 2015. She talks ahead of her performance of Strauss's rarely performed Violin Concerto next week at the Royal Festival Hall. The winner of the BBC Women’s Footballer of the Year is announced today. We hear what makes her game special and about the Women’s World Cup which kicks off in France in two weeks’ time with Rebecca Myers of The Sunday Times. And, two international reports highlight concerns with food poverty and the impact of austerity on families in the UK. We ask what these reports have found.Presenter: Jenni Murray Producer: Ruth Watts

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2. And of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme. Peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, Jenny Murray welcoming you to the Woman's Hour podcast for Wednesday the 22nd of May. Now four years ago, Greta Green was killed in New York when a piece of falling masonry hit her on the head. She was two. I'll be talking to her father, Jason Green, who's written a memoir, Once More We Saw Stars. The Norwegian striker, Ada Hegerberg, is named as the BBC's Woman Footballer of the Year for the second time.

What makes her the best? And a rare performance of the Richard Strauss Violin Concerto. Why is Alina Ibrahimova set to play a piece said to be unpopular? Now this week, two reports by human rights organisations have been released claiming austerity has led to extreme poverty in the United Kingdom. Professor Philip Alston, under the auspices of the United Nations, released his report today. He said 20% of the population has suffered economic impoverishment and referred to the systematic disadvantage inflicted by current policies on women as well as children. Earlier this week, Human Rights Watch published its research,

which looks specifically at increased food poverty, which they say has had the greatest impact on mothers and families. Well Stephanie Hancock speaks for Human Rights Watch. What is the extent of food poverty for women and children in the UK? Well according to what we've found and according to other figures as well if for example if you look at the Trussell Trust, which is the largest independent food bank network across the country, 10 years ago, they used to distribute 26,000 emergency food parcels a year. An emergency food parcel is sort of a bag or two of food designed to get an average-sized family through a small emergency food crisis for about three days. So 10 years ago, it just handed out 26,000 of these parcels a year. Today, it is handing out 1.3 million, more than 1.3 million.

So that's a 50-fold increase in the number of emergency food parcels that families are relying on. So that gives you an indication as to the scale of the problem. Who did you speak to in your research, and what did people tell you they were actually experiencing? We spoke to families, mainly women, who we met at food banks. So we talked to all sorts of people but in terms of on-the-ground research we spent a lot of time at food banks talking to users and asking why they were there and time and time again most of the people presenting there were women who were there

because they couldn't feed their kids and all of them said that the reason why they'd been forced to use a food bank was because they didn't have enough money there wasn't the cupboards at home were empty and a lot of them were also blaming changes to welfare payments for leaving them without any money. Why did they blame the welfare payments for leaving them without money? The way in which austerity and welfare reform has been carried out in the country over the past few years has been quite devastating for many families. So there's several different things that the UK government has done. First of all, it's put a freeze on benefits.

So benefits for families on welfare have been frozen for the past four years. And that's about to be lifted, the government tells us. It's going to be lifted next year. Again, that's a promise that the UK government has made. We'll have to see if it actually keeps that. Other things that it's done is it's imposed a benefit cap. So no matter your circumstances, no matter the size of your family, no matter how many children you have,

there is only a certain amount of welfare that families can receive. And, you know, this is borne out. We met, you know, so many people who talked about just not having enough food, scraping pennies together to buy a loaf of bread at the end of the week. You know, this is a very, very real problem experienced by people. Now, a spokesman from the Department of Work and Pensions said it's misleading to present these findings as representative of England as a whole. How selective have you been in the areas that you've targeted? Well we looked at three different areas in England. We looked at areas that are deprived but we didn't set out to count

you know how many hungry people there are in the UK. That in fact is one of our recommendations to the UK government to do proper research to discover exactly what the extent of food poverty is. We know that there's food poverty. Every time you open a newspaper or switch the television on, you're presented with more and more images of people using food banks. Everyone knows this country has a massive growing food poverty problem. What we're trying to do is to ask why that is happening. And so we've gone through government data, we've gone through, we relied on food banks, charities, schools and people who are using food banks themselves to ask why it is that families are being plunged into food poverty. Now, Professor Alston referred to disadvantage inflicted on women and said last year that the welfare system is sexist. He actually said it could have been compiled by a group of misogynists. How accurate is that according to your research?

Well, clearly we wouldn't go quite as far as Professor Alston. I have looked at his report this morning. It is very shocking and it is damning. But what I can say is that any time a country decides to change the way it pays welfare to families, women will always be the ones who are most badly affected. That's for two reasons. First of all, you know, despite progress we've made in women's rights and despite the fact it's the year 2019, women still tend to be the main primary caregiver and families. And secondly, when you're talking about poverty, single parent households tend to be headed by women. And a single parent household is never going to have as much income. I'm a single mum myself. And I know this for a fact, you know, if you're a single parent, you do not have as much income, whether you're working or on welfare, you just do not have as much income as a family with two adults in the house. And because 90% of single parent families in this country are headed by women, any time you're talking about reforming welfare for families, what you're actually doing is reforming welfare for women

and making changes to women's lives. But you see, the government says it spends £95 billion a year on working age benefits and supports more than a million children through free school meals. What impact is that having on food poverty? That's not an inconsiderable amount of money. Well, no, it is a large amount of money. The point we're making is that the UK government over the past 10 years, successive UK governments since austerity began in 2008, they've made cuts across many different areas of government spending. And what our research specifically highlights, this is the main thing we want to get across, is that while

austerity has happened across the board, if you look at the figures for welfare spending for families and children, over the past 10 10 years government spending on that has been cut by 44 percent that is a huge decrease that's a massive hit and families and children you know these are already the most vulnerable people in society we've asked that welfare for families and children has dropped more than any other area of government spending defense spending for example only dropped by seven percent transport even rose slightly. Nevertheless, welfare for families and children dropped by 44%. To what extent do other Western democracies have a similar problem? Loads of other countries have this problem. Look at the United States, where the food bank system

there is practically institutionalised. Britain is not the only country that has a food poverty problem. You see it across Europe as well. What we're saying is that Britain is one of the wealthiest countries in Europe. It's the fifth largest economy in the world. We are a wealthy country. There's no reason for anyone in this country to be going hungry. So how should food poverty be tackled? What we want the government to do is to look at how it's

rolled out its welfare reform and how it's conducted austerity. We don't think it's fair that women and children have had to bear the brunt of the cuts. 44% decrease over 10 years, that's massive. So we're not saying that the UK government has to start spending more. What we're asking them is to take a long hard look in the mirror and ask themselves if they really think that welfare for families and children deserves to be cut so much more than other areas of government spending. We also want some changes to the welfare system as well. Why do you consider this to be a human rights issue? This is a human rights issue because under international human rights law, which the UK is signed up to in various treaties and covenants

there is a provision for an adequate standard of living and contained within that is the right to food so the UK government because it's signed up to these covenants and treaties it has it's a promise that's all it is but it has through that promised to provide an adequate standard of living for every person in this country and that includes the right to food so by not making sure that people have enough to eat by by ripping away at the safety net through welfare reform and austerity the UK government is not fulfilling its promise to to fulfill a right to food for people in this country. So how effective is the UK's social safety net? Well, I think that's the thing.

The social safety net is something that the country is almost famous for. I think it's something that we've grown up with. It's something we sometimes almost take for granted. I also think there's a sense of pride. Most people are quite proud that we in this country have, unlike others, you look at the United States, for example, we have a really good social safety net. But unfortunately, what our report uncovers

and what Professor Philip Alston reports uncovers today as well is the extent to which this safety net, through austerity, has been hacked at over the past 10 years to such an extent that now people are falling through it in growing numbers. Stephanie Hancock, thank you very much indeed for being with us. And we would, of course, like to hear from you. If you use a food bank, let us know. If you manage perfectly well, also let us know.

You can tweet us or, of course, you can send us an email. Thank you, Stephanie. Now, the winner of the BBC's Women's Footballer of the Year is announced today. She's Ada Hegerberg, and it's the second time she's won the title. She's Norwegian and plays for Lyon in France. So what's so great about her game? And why won't she be playing for her country in the Women's World Cup, which begins on the 7th of June. Rebecca Myers is a sports journalist for the Sunday Times. Rebecca, how surprising is it that she's won and for the second time? I mean, not hugely surprising because she's such a fantastic player, but brilliant,

brilliant news. And I think just so good. As you said, she's not playing in the World Cup. So to get recognition like this in a summer of women's football like this is just wonderful. It's really great news. And she was chuffed. The video is fantastic of her receiving that award. It's really great. What's so great about her game? I mean, she's 23 years old. And I think we forget this a lot. She is in the headlines quite a lot. She's still only 23. She could well have the best years of her playing career ahead of her. And that's quite extraordinary when you think about it. She's got five. She's won the league five times. She's won the Coupe you think about it. She's got five, she's won the league five times, she's won the Coupe de France five times, she's won the Champions League four times

and she's 23 years old. The award is also, it's four days since she scored a hat-trick in the Champions League final and that was actually after voting closed so you can see the kind of fervour that fans have, the love that fans have for her when she's won that award before doing that extraordinary feat. Yet she won't be at the World Cup for Norway, which is her home country. Why not? Yeah, this is quite an extraordinary story, actually. So in 2017, she had played for the Norwegian team. And then in 2017, she announced that she wouldn't be playing anymore because she disagreed with basically how women's football was treated in the country. She said, you know, it's not treated with equality and respect. It's quite bizarre because we see Norway as this sort

of bastion of equality, this amazing sort of feminist wonderland where you can get paid equally. And indeed, a few months after she said this, they did announce they would pay their men and women's football teams equally. But she said it's not enough. And she's carried on making that stand. I think some people thought maybe she would play this summer, but she's decided not to. And it's quite an extraordinary thing not to have one of the best players

in the world on the pitch. So why was the national team not at pains to fix the relationship? You said they fixed the equal pay question, but clearly have not sorted out the relationship. Yeah, and there have been discussions and the head coach has said that he spoke with her around the time that he was putting the squad together.

I mean, obviously she was going to have a place if she wanted it. And he said that those discussions did take place but whatever those discussions were, they weren't enough for her. And I think he's also said when someone doesn't want to play and they don't want to be there, you can't force them and it's going to harm the team if you do. A couple of other players on the Norwegian team I think have had you know their concerns but but they've decided to play but she's stood by her guns really which is quite amazing how much more attractive might playing in France for Lyon be certainly a very good paycheck so Lyon basically

one of the best played women's teams in the world so she will be among the best paid women's players in the world um leon is just i mean they are just unstoppable they obviously just won the champions league i mean the new york times ran a piece a couple of weeks ago saying they were probably the most dominant sports team in the world of any sport just because of the edge that they have on on any other women's team um and the the sort of infrastructure they've built there the dedication to the women's team. And the sort of infrastructure they've built there, the dedication to the women's side, the fans, they regularly get tens of thousands of fans to the games to the point that the World Cup final will be played in their stadium because they've got that buzz around women's football.

And there we come to the question of ticketing, don't we? The Women's World Cup begins in France on Friday the 7th of June. There have been problems with ticketing, with people being told, no, you're not going to be able to sit together. Has FIFA handled this as badly as some of the fans have suggested? I think they have, yes. Unfortunately. I mean, this

is just, it's quite a bizarre turn of events. As you said, people won't be sat together. You've had people tweeting saying, my five-year-old has sat five rows behind me um which is um you know one guy said well good luck to anyone who's sat with my my three-year-old daughter but but quite seriously obviously it is a safety concern fifa has said they're particularly looking into issues where children are separated from parents but there's no clear plan on what they're

they're going to do about this and you can't help but wonder you you can't imagine this happening during the men's world cup you cannot fathom them saying sorry fans of the men's game you're not going to be sat together and how popular are the matches seeming to be because i know a lot of the tickets are selling for as little as 10 euros which is not expensive for football no it's very cheap and i mean that's the sort of difficult question itself because in a way that has the edge on the men's game. And that's something that the women's game can still offer is affordable football, which is unheard of these days in the men's game. You know, the tickets have done really, really well.

The French organisational bodies have sort of said cities weren't tripping over themselves to host necessarily. But since, you know, the tickets have flown off of the proverbial shelves um all the england group games have sold out completely now which is amazing um it's great for us because people can travel over quite easily and quite cheaply um okay come on the home nation there is a bit of a problem isn't there in that scotland and england are drawn in the same group how will they fare when they face each other in their very first match? It's going to be amazing. It's going to be an electric match. I'm very excited.

And I think certainly some pubs around the UK could have some pretty raucous encounters. I think Scotland are a force to be reckoned with. And I think people are saying they're the dark horse, you know, this is the biggest sort of game of their life type thing. But actually, they've been really impressive recently. And I don't think Phil Neville's squad will be writing them off as an easy win by any stretch. And how good are England's chances of winning the tournament, which has also been discussed?

Yeah. But then there's France and then there's America. You almost don't want to say it, but I do think we could go all the way, which is mildly terrifying. You don't want to curse it, but we could, yeah. And certainly this is the greatest chance we've ever stood and much better than any male squad in recent history has stood of actually bringing it home.

And if England does do well, if England does bring it home, what will that do for the club level game and for girls getting into it? I mean, it could change everything, really, as far as we know it. I think the FA have made some, have been doing some very important work recently that's basically said, the main thing is if a young girl is watching the world cup on tv and she comes home and thinks wow i want to play at the moment as it stands in most parts of the country she will she won't have a team to play for she'll have to play for a boys team so the fa have been doing a lot of work to put infrastructure in place basic infrastructure that means you know your 10 year old girl can play football um you know kelly simmons last night at the what if event which looks at changing um football for the better, said, I want every girl in the country to be able to play football.

It sounds basic, but it's not always possible. Rebecca Myers, I'm sure you will be glued to it. Thank you very much indeed for being with us this morning. Now, still to come in today's programme, once more we saw stars. Jason Green discusses the impact of the death of his two-year-old daughter, Greta, when she was hit by falling masonry in New York and, of course, the serial Gudrun. You may have missed interesting items earlier in the week.

On Monday, Jane spoke to Sarah Canning, whose partner, Leira McKee, was shot in Londonderry. Sarah is campaigning for equal marriage in Northern Ireland. And yesterday, Deborah James talked about her bowel cancer. You can find anything you missed on BBC Sound. And there's also a new video with Deborah on the Woman's Hour website. She talks about why we need to break the taboo about bowel cancer and the symptoms that we should all look out for.

Now, Richard Strauss composed his violin concerto in the late 19th century. The last time it was played in this country was at the proms in 1912, so it has the reputation of being rather unpopular. © BF-WATCH TV 2021 ORCHESTRA PLAYS Well, on Friday the 31st of May, it will be played again, this time at the Royal Festival Hall with the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment, and the violinist will be Alina Ibrahimova. Alina, it sounds beautiful to me. Why is it not popular? I have no idea, actually. I think it's one of those things that, for some reason,

some works get forgotten and out of fashion, and then they get rediscovered again and everyone plays them and I think we're maybe at the beginning of that. You said he was all of 17 when you composed it. It's crazy and it's very much a youthful work. I think

the latest Strauss that we know is there a little bit. We have glimpses, but I think it's, yeah, it's someone, you know, it's got a very standard form. And I think the way he uses the violin is what he would have heard from all the, you know, virtuoso violin masters, how they wrote. So it's very much, yeah, it's very sweet in a way. Now, you were very young when you began to play,

four years old, I think, still living in Russia. What drew you to the instrument? My parents are both musicians and my mother played the violin. So I think it was, you know, it was there before I was born. Yeah, and it was so normal in my family that everyone was playing something and practising something that I found it really strange that other kids didn't. I didn't really understand what they did. But then you came to London when I think you were 11 for your father's job. How easy was it to make that transition for a still relatively little girl?

I think I didn't want to leave because, you know, my friends were there, my teacher, my cat. Did you not bring your cat with you? No, no, we didn't bring the cat. The cat went to my grandmother, but it lived a very happy life there. But when I came to London, though, I fell in love straight away. I loved it. I loved it here.

I loved, you know, it was a totally different lifestyle to have my own room, to have a garden. You know, it was all kind of so new and beautiful. Everything was beautiful. When did you make the commitment to a career as a violinist? Well, I think... All along, was it just there that you would always do it? I always knew, it was always assumed because I think I was good at it when I was little.

So, you know, it was obvious that was what I was good at it when I was little so you know it was obvious that was what I was going to do and I think the real conscious decision that it was mine was when I was 12 or 13 that I actually really wanted

to practice and wanted to do it for myself and You went to the Hoududi Menuhin School, where I think your mother was also teaching. Yes, she was, yeah. How easy was it to have your mother teach you as a teenager? Well, not easy at all. So she always made sure I had another teacher,

but she was around to help. So whenever I needed anything, she was very, very helpful. But there was always, you know, another teacher, even when I was little, which I guess was a good idea for both of us probably. I know you once said, the more I know about life, the more I feel, the more I can express. How has your playing changed then over the years with that knowledge? Very much, I think. I think, I guess the more we know, the more empathetic we are.

And in art, that's what art generally deals with, is empathy. And, yeah, and I find that find that you know and all these works all these works that i play i don't know the solo bach or uh you know i've lived with them since i was a child some of them and you have all these memories you have all these associations every time you play them you know like all the different times in your life when you've needed them again. And yeah, in a way, it's been interpreted by so many other great musicians? Not necessarily the Strauss, of course, because that hasn't been played so many times, but other pieces that are really famous.

I try, when I'm learning something, I try not to listen to other performances of it, just even if I like them, it's an influence. And I love to think that I come to a piece other performances of it just even if I like them it's an influence and I love to think that I come to a piece totally with an open mind as much as I can and then it kind of happens naturally

I think it's impossible to for two people to see a piece in the same way in the end. Now famously you have a reputation of having stormed the proms in 2015 with a performance of Bach's complete

sonatas and partitias. Why did you want to take on such a massive task? I guess I've played them for a long time now, the Bach, and it's something that I find, I don't know, it's one of the best things I can do. I mean, not that I'm good at it, but I mean, in life,

that's, yeah, something that I can... Standing on stage with your violin and playing to the new goalie. That's what I can do for myself as an experience. It's so cleansing and so full. And, yeah, playing in the Albert Hall, that's so big that you can make so intimate and take people with you. I think it's a really special circumstance, special environment, special atmosphere. And, yeah, so to be able to do that was amazing, if scary. It's interesting that in 2016 the Yehuda Menno International Competition had only one man among 22 finalists. Really?

Why are women rising to the fore with the violin? It's kind of become the women's instrument. I don't know why. Maybe, no, I actually don't know why. Maybe, maybe... No, I actually don't know why at all. But it's true, that's definitely true, that there are many, many women violinists today, and it's wonderful. I think we're looking to have more women conductors

and, you know, all the other professions that are associated with men. yes. Alina Ibrahimova, thank you very much indeed for being with us and the very best of luck with the Strauss on the 31st of May.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Now four years ago, Jason Green and his wife, Stacey, suffered every parent's worst nightmare. They were enjoying a child-free day because their two-year-old daughter, Grace, was with her grandmother. Greta was with her grandmother. Greta and Susan were sitting together on a bench in New York when a piece of masonry fell from a tall building and struck Greta on the head.

It would prove fatal. Well, Jason has written a memoir. It's called Once More We Saw Stars. Jason, why that title? Well, it's the last line of Dante's Inferno, and it's when Virgil and Dante have just about emerged from the depths of hell. They've gone all the way to the bottom. And they are at the very end of the tunnel. And they can see just briefly through a round aperture, the stars again. And it felt a bit like

the journey that our family took back into life after after Greta died we had to make sense of the accident make sense of um the violent death of our only child and we didn't want to live at the bottom of hell anymore so it's so striking reading about when it happened, the way that the two of you are actually enjoying a child free moment. You're very common to be together. And she's with her grandma. How exactly did the accident happen? They were just walking around the corner from her building as a senior center. And they would often go visit with the the residents there

they loved to see greta and they had spent a leisurely morning together um as had we we were checking in with them all morning and they were texting us pictures of their updates and and my mother-in-law susan said you know we're having the time of our lives here why don't you go you can take all the time you need and um, um, so Stacy and I were actually going to go see a matinee and, um, and then they sat down on the bench there outside of the building. And it was, it turns out it was a poorly maintained building. Um, it had not passed inspection. The inspector falsified a report and there was a S shaped crack in the facade. And so from the eighth floor a piece of masonry fell and struck right in the head um another piece hit my mother-in-law on the legs

um and we found out um that shortly after we were headed out to go to the movies and we both pulled out our phones and so we'd missed phone calls from her. And that was unusual. And so that's when I called and that's when we found out. What hope did you have when you arrived at the hospital that Greta would recover? I'll be honest. When we showed up at the ER and we went into the room where she was and we saw her, she was surrounded by a team of people. And she was just so pitifully tiny there in the middle of that table. And I think we just knew on some level that whatever happened next, that

she wasn't coming back in any meaningful way. We didn't admit that to ourselves or to each other, but I think we both, we admitted later that we both had a very, very dark feeling when we saw, and that was confirmed shortly after. We didn't have a lot of time to be in ambiguity about her state, which was painful, but in a sad way, I was almost grateful not to be stranded in between or to have to make any decisions on her behalf. There was some comfort in that. You did have to make one decision, and that was when you were asked about donating her organs. How difficult was it to make that decision? Not difficult, honestly. It was the only not difficult decision, and that might sound perverse to some. And I know that people have very differing opinions on the body and life and, you know, where those two intersect.

And for us, it was just so clear. Once we were told that the prognosis was fatal and that, you know, they had to certify her brain dead, but they believed, you know, that she was. Once they did do that, there was no question for us that she was coming back or that she was in her body anymore. She was gone. And it was such a meaningless accident, really. There's nothing we could have done to prevent it. It was the only thing we could do to pull some meaning out of that moment. And I think that from then on, and when I decided to write the book, it was a similar exercise, a similar thought. Like, how can I salvage meaning out of something that seems inherently meaningless? And how can we tell this story to ourselves?

And you had, I think, at one point said to Greta that danger doesn't fall out of the sky, which is just the most extraordinary thing to have said. I don't know that I ever said that to her, to be honest with you. I don't think it would have occurred to me, because that's precisely it. Things don't just fall out of the sky. I mean, you can't go through life assuming things are going to fall out of the sky because you will never relax and enjoy your life. And I think that when our son Harrison was born, we wanted to make sure that even though we'd experienced this tragedy, that we could look him in the eye and give him the

same belief we gave Greta, you know, and we had to learn to trust the world again, which was a scary thing. You do say in the book that at one point you became almost overwhelmed with anger and hatred of happy families. How did your response compare with Stacey's, your wife's? We had very different responses. And I think that she did not struggle with the anger like I did. And I think for me, it was a delayed shock response. It was sort of, we had to mobilize so many different things just to get through the accident. And I think I'd been an optimist without really examining that belief. I'd been an optimist. And so to have my optimism run into this accident, I think that the shock produced anger. I was angry at the world for so many things. And one of the parts of me that was so angry was this part of me that used to

believe the world was a good place. And that manifested itself in irrational rages. And this was, I should say that this didn't, this didn't persist. I would say the first six months of acute trauma and shock, it manifested itself. I would be sick with grief, and I would look up, and I'd see a father with their daughter on their shoulders, and I would hate that person. And then I would hate that feeling. I didn't want that feeling in myself. I didn't want to be the kind of person who would see a happy family and be filled with dark feelings. That was sad and overwhelming all by itself.

And so I hope the book would help me excavate some of those feelings out of myself. You write that children who lose parents are orphans, bereaved spouses are widows. What do you call parents who lose children? What do you say when people ask if you have children before you had Harrison? It's a really good question. And it's funny, not ha-ha funny, but there is a way in which both Stacey and I managed that question differently,

and that was also a manifestation of our personalities and how we grieved. Stacey would often lie to protect the person she was talking to because she didn't know them. I mean, if it was someone that she thought she might see again in her life, she might say, well, we had a daughter, but tragically, we lost her recently in an accident. But she wouldn't say that to the checkout counter person. In the beginning, I'm a little bit ashamed to say, although I do write this in the book, because it was honest, I found myself wanting to tell everyone. And some part of that, I think,

was this urge to detonate a grenade in other people's days, in other people's lives. It was a guilt-free way of, frankly, spreading some pain around in those early months. It's a habit I got past. But in the beginning, I would tell everybody who asked whether or not they really wanted to know. And now, I mean, our relationship to our grief has shifted so much. I will often say that we have two children, and I will leave it at that.

How has Susan, Greta's grandma, who was there on the day, coped? what Susan went through. I still flinch from imagining her trauma and what she endured. Considering that she had to see the accident, the market leaves and I think it's miraculous that she has come as far as she had. She has. She still has PTSD. And she probably always will. But she, you know, she, she manages, she watches my son Harrison two days a week, whole days. And not to tie a bow in anything, but I think this is remarkable. Last week was the anniversary of the accident, the four-year anniversary of the accident. And on that day, I had to work. And so I took Harrison to Susan's.

And neither of us really acknowledged the fact that it was the same day as the accident. And I went to work and Susan, without telling me, took Harrison for a walk around the block and went further with him than she ever had before. And I think in a way she was defying the fear she'd been living with. They went to a toy store. Since you had Harrison said that since his birth, you feel Greta everywhere. What do you mean by that? I meant that there's nowhere closer to death than birth. In some ways, they're the same place. I feel like Harrison came to us from where Greta went. And I've talked to people who said that they've seen dead parents or family members

in the moment when they gave birth. And I think there's a reason. I mean, you know, at one point, giving birth to a child was one of the most dangerous things you could do. And I think it's a visceral experience and it brings you right to the brink. Now, I didn't experience those feelings firsthand, but I was with my wife and just the very nature of the experience, it's so primal that I felt like I saw Greta very clearly in the moment that Harrison was born. And I think that before he was born, I thought a lot about the fact that they were sort of together, and for the only time in their existence, they were in the same place at the same time. And when he was born, you were still very much surrounded by that energy. And,

you know, and that's dissipated as time goes on. And children drag you forward into the present. That's what they do. They literally almost drag you. You know, I don't have time for these luminous reflections all the time. I'm on the playground, you know, with my son, making sure he doesn't bonk his face on something. Jason Green ending today's program. And Rachel tweeted about Jason, such a moving interview. The excerpts of the book I've read are heart-rending, but also incredibly reflective and so brave.

Alison emailed huge thanks to Jason for his honesty, particularly about his anger and the desire to throw a grenade into other people's happiness. It was and is so real. I have not lost a child, but I remember feeling this anger when my partner left me. Anger at people who were happy with each other. One of the few times that radio has moved me to tears. And I have to tell you, it moved me to tears as well. And lots of you got in touch about the topic of food poverty and the impact on mothers and families. Karen emailed, I'm a Citizens Advice Bureau volunteer in the relatively affluent little town in Sussex. My town now has

three food banks and I regularly refer clients to them. We see first-hand how the changes to benefits affect people. It says a lot about society if those who are already disadvantaged are hardest hit by cuts. Rachel emailed, A few years ago when I was a single parent I would have jumped at the chance of free food. I didn't know that this was available then. We didn't starve but it was difficult. But Kate doesn't feel the same way. She emailed, Everyone knows that obesity is the problem in this country,

not hunger. I would say that everyone knows that if parents don't use their very generous benefits to buy food, they're spending it on drugs or alcohol or cigarettes instead. How about a bit of balance? The obvious answer is to provide benefits in the form of stamps for various items, including food. So this nonsense about food poverty comes to an end

and cut benefits so women aren't encouraged to have children by themselves without a father and a family, which leads to endless problems down the line. This endless liberal bollocks is extremely wearing. Leela agreed. She emailed, you should not have children if you cannot support them. No child is done by one person, so why not ask the father to help with the child's well-being? I do understand that people's situation can change in a second, but

also you should think in the future and how changes will affect your children. Charlene emailed, I'm a single parent and on a very low income. I buy low-cost food parcels from a charity and shop at places that sell food that is past its best before date. There's a lot of waste in the UK and the system could be made efficient with no need for a bigger budget to deal with this issue. But Mandy reminded us through a tweet that everything that's being said about welfare reduction and families is equally true for disabled people. The UN wrote a report on this a couple of years ago saying government is causing grave and systematic violations of the rights of disabled people. Amy tweeted about the benefit system as a whole.

She told us her experience. I totally agree the welfare system is sexist. I experienced it myself when my boyfriend, who could not work while studying at university, was means tested for my employment and support allowance benefit when I was mentally unwell and found fit for work. It was expected that he pay for me using his student grant, despite this being non-taxable income, which shouldn't be means tested. Just because you live with a partner, I have no choices, I have no family to rely on and I can't live on my own.

Why shouldn't you be treated as an individual? In tomorrow's programme, we'll be talking about cartoons with women who are cartoonists, about the impact of Posy Simmons on their work. There's a new exhibition of Posy coming up soon. Join me tomorrow. Bye-bye. This is Planet Puffin. There's a fair chance you will get bitten at some point.

Planet Puffin is a new podcast coming to you from a tiny island off the east coast of Scotland. Across the summer, we're going to be following the breeding season, no matter what it takes. Now, there's an encouraging piece of poo at the entrance. There's some nice white guano. So Becky, I'm going to let you take the first game of puffin roulette. Summer 2019's hottest puffin podcast.

Well, only puffin podcast. For BBC Sounds. I'm Sarah Treleaven, and for over a year, I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who was faking pregnancies. I started, like, warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake.

No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.