Woman's Hour - Alison White, Corona Diaries, Midlife Crisis

Episode Date: April 29, 2020

All week our drama has been about a woman bringing up her son who has cerebral palsy and learning disabilities. Today we hear from the real people behind the story: Alison White and Louis, who's an adult now. And afterwards we hear from Mencap about life during lockdown for adults with learning disabilities and their carers. We continue our Corona Diaries. Today we have Kate Tudge who breeds pigs in Herefordshire. We go to America to speak to Alix Kates Shulman, author of "Memoirs of an Ex-Prom Queen" who's making face masks. "A midlife crisis" is often used to describe middle-aged men being indulgent or irresponsible. But before it became a cliché, the term was a feminist concept. In 1976, a journalist called Gail Sheehy used it to refer to both men and women who might be reassessing their life and their choices and looking for a change. Susanne Schmidt, a history lecturer at Freie University in Berlin has written a book about Sheehy and her ideas. It's called Midlife Crisis: The Feminist Origins of a Chauvinist Cliché.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2. And of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme. Peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, Jenny Murray welcoming you to the Woman's Hour podcast for Wednesday the 29th of April. Good morning. At a time when we're all aware of how much science matters, a 12-year-old girl wins the Big Bang UK's Young Scientists and Engineering competition. How did her project Microgreens from Goldfish work? wins the Big Bang UK's Young Scientists and Engineering competition.

How did her project, Micro Greens from Goldfish, work? Women making masks. We meet Alex Kate Shulman, who is now 87, and so is at her home in Manhattan. The midlife crisis. The American journalist Gayle Sheehy coined the term in the hope it would be a chance for men and women to change their lives. How did it become an excuse for men to buy that motorbike or sports car? And today's Woman's Hour Corona Diary will be from Kate Tudge,

who breeds rare pigs on her farm in Herefordshire. If you've been listening to this week's serial, you will be familiar with Alison White's Letter to Louis, which is the story of the birth of her first child, Louis, in 1996. He was delivered by an emergency caesarean section at 32 weeks and suffered severe brain damage because she had preeclampsia, which had not been diagnosed in time. He has cerebral palsy and learning difficulties. Well, Louis is now 23, and earlier this morning,

he joined me together with Alison from home in Pembrokeshire. Alison explained what their life together was like before lockdown. Before the lockdown started, we had just got to the place we'd been wanting to get to, I suppose, for a very long time. Louis had just managed to get a care package for 24-hour supported living in his own home. And he was having an absolute wonderful time. We'd been setting up all the care that he needed and training all the staff. And yeah, that's my way.

What was it like then as we began to realise that things were not going quite as normally? How difficult was it to cope when the uncertainty of the virus began? It was, I'm sure so many, everyone must have been feeling this in their own way. It was completely terrifying, really, because I was watching events unfold, seeing what was happening in Italy and China, wondering what on earth we were going to do and how soon it was going to get to us and thinking about how to keep Louis safe, really, and looking at what our situation was and what Louis' needs were and how to do it. Because Louis has, and he did have, ten carers on him

that would alternate every eight hours over the space of the seven days of the week. And I was realising that that was going to be too risky you know for the risk of bringing the virus in so each day things were changing weren't they and we were reducing the numbers down and it just reached a point where we thought actually we've got to really condense it we'd gone from 10 to 8 to 4 and this was all before the government was giving out definite advice and then there was a point when two carers very kindly Ollie and Maya offered to take on the full caring role for a period of time with myself being able to offer support as well so how are you managing now I mean we're several weeks into the lockdown now. How is it going? It's going as well as it could, I would say.

And I think the reason for that is because we've been so fortunate with the care that we've been offered and the care providers that we have and that I do have care. I'm very, very aware that this time last year, I wouldn't have had any of this. And then I would be having to do everything and that would be completely different. So the fact that I do have this support network, and we've been doing a lot of reassuring with Louis, haven't we Louis, about things because he's had to adjust to big, big changes to his routine and all the things that he really enjoys doing. Let me ask Louis. Louis, how are you doing with all these changes that have happened? How are you managing?

Blurred. He's been doing so well with the changes, haven't you, Louis? We've been telling you how well you're coping. I don't know, do you want to tell jenny anything else i know how are you i'm very well louis how are you brilliant he's got a very positive outlook haven't you as well lou yes so louis can you tell me how you're spending your days at the moment when practically the whole country is just staying at home all the time? I am.

I am staying at home and I am going for two walks a day, yeah. And Louis is very happy about that detail because the government has changed it, haven't they, Louis? Which has enabled him to have more than one walk, which was causing him a lot of distress. And now he's able to go out more because of his needs. So, Louis, you like walking, do you? Yes, a lot and I am wondering when this lot will be lifted and all but normal. Alison who cares for you during all these worries and anxieties that you've had?

Oh um well I suppose family and friends you know I can turn to and talk to and they are very supportive. But that's that mothering role, isn't it? You cope as long as your children are fine and are coping, focusing on that. What's going to happen when the lockdown is lifted? How will you cope then? I don't know the answer to that question yet, because I think what I've been having to do at the moment is take things day by day and assess the situation.

The most important thing is that the care provision for Louis continues. You know, I have fears about what's happening with the economy and what that will mean for care and I suppose we very much want there to be a vaccine one day how to keep him safe when the lockdown lifts but keeping the social distances I don't know it's a bit of a minefield isn't it I know I don't know the answer to that question. Just one last question, Alison. Listening to your memoir is so moving with you talking about those very early days with Louis.

What does it mean to you that what you publish as a book is now being broadcast to the nation? It does feel very emotional. I'm aware at the moment the nation's listening to myself in a very traumatised state, but we've reached this incredible place now, which is where the story is heading towards and it just feel wonderful to share my story and for people to maybe understand what it is like to be the mother of a child like Louis and celebrate his achievements of how far he's come and the things that he can now do in particular the music the fact that music has made such a difference to his life and our life and what he can now achieve with his music. And does it still make a huge difference, the music?

Music makes a huge difference to Louis. It's incredibly important. And he's currently having Skype lessons with his piano teacher, Emma. Yeah, he absolutely loves music. And in the radio, in this episode, you're about to hear quite what music did for him when he was very small and he's progressed to do. But I don't know if this is a spoiler or not, because, or maybe I shouldn't say. Go on, go on, say it.

Well, for the listeners of Woman's Hour, they're going to discover early, at the end of episode five, the listeners will discover that the theme music to the play is actually Louis playing the piano. I don't think that's a spoiler. I think that's just lovely. Isn't it? I'm good.

Alison and Louis, thank you so much for joining us this morning. And thanks, Alison, for writing such a beautiful book. Thank you very much, Jenny. I was talking to Alison and Louis, and of course, the next episode will be later in the programme. But how familiar are stories like theirs as a young person with such disabilities grows up? Well, I'm joined by Adel Harris, who's the Chief Executive of Mencap. Adel, how typical would you say Alison and Louis' story is?

I've loved listening to Alison and Louis just then. I share Alison's worries about the economy and the impact that will have on social care but I love the way that she celebrates and Louis celebrates his achievements and his positive outlook. But yes, their story is quite typical. It's important of course to stress that everybody with a learning disability is a unique individual and we're all going through a really difficult and anxious time at the moment, but it's society's most vulnerable that are hit the hardest.

And Alison's story and Louis' story is very typical of what Mencap is hearing and what we're experiencing via our helpline, our online community, our local groups, and through our own supported living services. But it's very hard for people with a learning disability to make sense of the world sometimes anyway. Many of them, as Louis does, really appreciate having routine, and that's been taken away from them. Some people with a learning disability have high anxiety, and that's exacerbated at the moment. And of course, during a lockdown, access to services such as day centres and respite,

supported employment, all of these things have stopped. And we're seeing, in some cases, higher instances of challenging behaviour as a result. So packages are affected. How difficult is it for people who've had to return to elderly parents because their care has had to stop? Yes, we're seeing that in a number of cases because there is pressure on social care at the moment. There are many care workers who are shielding or self-isolating which obviously results in staff shortages and so there are a number of people with a learning disability who were living with care in the community and who have had to return to their families and of course in many cases that's older

carers who have their own concerns as parents about becoming ill and what would happen if they become ill. And it's putting pressure on family carers because obviously they're not used to having their loved one at home all of the time. So we are hearing of many carers who are struggling and who are needing additional support at this time. I know there has been some extra anxiety caused by some people with learning disabilities being sent do not resuscitate letters. What's happening on that question? Yes, when the pandemic first hit us all, Mencap and other disability charities were very concerned about a number of things, really. One was about the original clinical guidance

that was produced, which in our view, wrongly conflated having support needs with frailty and the blanket use of sending people with a learning disability and other vulnerable groups do not attempt

resuscitation letters seeking their views and their families views on what would happen if they became ill with the virus. I'm pleased to say that the clinical guidance was changed and NHS England have been really really categorically clear that people with a disability should have the same access to health care as everyone else in the community. And there's also some fear and anxiety about the Care Act easements, which is new legal powers which allow local authorities to suspend their duties to provide elements of social care in order to redirect resources towards coronavirus support. And that's obviously worrying individuals with a learning disability and their families that it might affect care packages. I know you have a son in his 30s who you can't be with at the moment. How is he doing?

Yes, my son Ross has Fragile fragile x syndrome which is the most common inherited form of learning disability um when we first all heard about the virus he was very angry he suffers from anxiety anyway and so his anxiety was much higher and he like louis is really missing his routine his work placements at a hotel and a coffee shop have obviously stopped. His swimming club stopped. And he's mad about football. He lives for football and, of course, there's no football at the moment. And his own personal assistant who provides him with support is not able to go into the home.

But, like Louis, he has a very positive outlook. He's watching Disney films and he's being very well cared for by other members of the family. And how much are you able to be in contact with him? Well, I FaceTime him or we have family Zoom calls every day. And when he's not playing on his Xbox or in the middle of a Disney film, he is very happy to see me and to speak to me. But I miss him terribly. He was due to be in London with me on Mother's Day. So it's a long, long time since I've seen him in person.

But I know that he's happy. He's in his lovely home with Jamie and my husband, Steve, is providing wonderful care and support to them both. But Xbox takes precedence over mum, does it? It does, more often than not. I don't think that's uncommon. Adel Harris, thank you very much indeed for joining us this morning. Now, today's Woman's Hour Corona Diary takes us to Herefordshire,

where Kate Tudge and her husband run a farm where they breed rare pigs. Like so many farmers, they've found demand for their produce has fallen since so many restaurants and cafes have closed. So how have they managed to adapt their business and keep going? Kate, how badly has your business been affected by the virus? So I should just say we're a family farm, so it's my husband and I and his brother and wife and my in-laws as well. So there's lots of you. So we're a rural farm in North Herefordshire and our main activity is rearing rare breed Berkshire pigs which we sell not through traditional markets, but direct to

customers. So about 30% go direct to restaurants, both in Herefordshire, Shropshire, and also down in London, Cambridge, that we courier meat to. Obviously, that 30% has totally gone since the closure of pubs and restaurants. But we also sell through farmers markets. That's another 40% and farmers markets have stopped as well. What we've done is on our website we have had to sort of get up to speed quite quickly and introduce a sort of click and collect service and an ordering service so people can go to our website, order, and then where we normally have a farmer's market so we do six farmer's markets a month um malvern hereford abigavenny and lemster um we've tried to find a location in consultation with people in the town that is quite quiet where we can do a

drop-off of orders so it's been maybe a pub car park which is obviously closed where we we know the owner um and so everything is pre-ordered and we go for a half-hour slot and people come and collect their orders but having sold in the past to some fancy restaurants how does handing out goods in a car park compare um well it's very different but it's it's great to be able to still supply the meat locally to our farmers market customers who are used to seeing us two or three, a couple of times a month to pick up their food. And it's lovely receiving emails and saying how grateful they are

that they can still get our product. What sort of changes in people's shopping habits have you observed? Well, we also deliver to local village shops in North Herefordshire and we do that on a weekly basis. My husband speaks to them on a Monday and say, you know, how many packets of ham, how many packets of sausages would you like this Friday? And on a Friday, always he delivers round to village shops. What we've seen is those village shops are now ordering. Some of them are doubling their order and all of them are at least a 50% increase. So obviously local people

are trying to avoid going to the big supermarkets and are supporting their local shops, which is great for our local shops. Now there was flooding in your area earlier in the year. There was, yeah. November, December and February we had significant floods. How is the community coping with all the shocks of 2019 and 2020? I think there are some people who are still either living in very reduced houses where they've had flooding. One of the bed and breakfasts that we supply in Hereford, which is right on the River Wye, they flooded in November, were flooded out and they've been closed as a business.

We've been supplying them with sausages for their breakfast for the last 10 years and they've been out and not acting as a business ever since then. So this is just an extra burden because obviously the work will have stopped in their house as well. They can't continue with the, you know, getting back to normal. Now, as well as the farm, I know you usually work as an outdoor activity centre, which must be on hold.

Thank you very much. So, yes, I do the marketing for an outdoor activity centre. We do 50% of our business is school residentials. We have glamping pods where school children come and many of them year sixes. So end of primary school celebration, they come for a week and they do high ropes and rafting and all sorts of fun activities and that whole business obviously we had to shut our gates and we're just waiting to see how we can open up again and get back to some sort of normality but obviously we are an extremely seasonal business and so if things only get back to normal in October that is coming to the end of the season anyway. What's it like being on the farm all the time? It's quite

different for me because obviously I'm usually out at work at the activity centre but my husband's been using my marketing skills to sort of develop the Tudge website and do email marketing. So he's actually commented that I'm quite useful. What changes might, in the long run, be for the better, would you say? I would hope that local people still continue to use their village shops more. We've also seen a great community. So, for example, our local pub is not doing meals, but they're doing takeaways. So they're still buying our sausages. And a great atmosphere within the village where people are really supporting.

It's a community pub, which was closed for some time and then reopened as a community pub. So I think it would be great to see that continue. Well, Kate Tudge, keep safe. Thank you very much indeed for being with us. Thank you very much. Still to come in today's programme, Midlife Crisis. How did Gayle Sheehy's feminist idea, whereby men and women might see a change in life, become an excuse for a man to buy a motorbike or a sports car?

And the winner of the GlaxoSmithKline Young Scientist of the Year, Dear Vincent, is 12, and her project was microgreens from goldfish. Earlier in the week, you may have missed a discussion about dreams in lockdown, and the story of Matilda McRae, transported from West Africa to the US in 1860, when she was only two years old. If you miss the live programme,

all you need to do is go to the BBC Sounds app and search for Woman's Hour, and you'll find us there. The debate about the wearing of masks continues. Some countries like Germany and Turkey have made it mandatory when in enclosed spaces or public transport. And yesterday, Scotland's First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, said some form of face covering should be worn when shopping or travelling. In the next couple of weeks, we'll be hearing from women around the world who are making face masks at home for their family, friends and sometimes for health workers. Alex Cates Shulman lives in Manhattan, was very active in the women's movement in the 60s and 70s and is the author of Memoirs of an Ex-Prom Queen. She's 87 now and she listens to classical music.

While she sews, she spoke to Maria Margaronis. I am in my loft in lower Manhattan and I am self-isolating. I have spent in my life several decades completely isolated on a small fishing island off the coast of Maine where I spent my summers. And I loved it very much. I learned solitude, learned to embrace it. So this is old hat to me. I have all that experience of being alone and treasuring it. I learned that everything that you need is there, wherever you are.

I won a sewing machine. Holly, my daughter, was about two and a half. It was before my discovery of the women's movement, which was in December of 67. At a nearby corner, there was a drugstore. In the window of the drugstore, there was a very small sign that said, sewing machine drawing, enter inside. So I went inside and I looked around and there was no box to drop my name in. And so I asked at the desk and the cashier said, oh, maybe we have it in the back.

So he went in the back and he brought out this box with a slit in it. And I signed my name and telephone number and dropped it in the little slot. And then he took it back in the back. So of course I won. I was probably the only person who ever entered the drawing. I was way too busy as an activist to do any more sewing or to do much more. But I have loved having my sewing machine. Not too long ago I had somebody come and fix everything in it. So it's in perfect sewing order. Now, during this self-isolation, I have time and now I have great motive again, because when I heard that you could make masks for so many people who don't have them, I immediately started sewing masks. Unfortunately, I am fast running out of clean cotton fabrics.

But, you know, when I lived alone on that island, I became a super scavenger, even for my food. And in the basement of our apartment building, quite a while ago, somebody put down there some really lovely cotton fabric for children's rooms. And they were very charming. And I grabbed them and took them upstairs. And when I went to look for fabric now to make masks, all I had was these lovely, charming, quirky pieces of fabric, which have funny pictures of animals, cute little animals, cartoony sort of animals, in exactly the right size for a mask. So I have been making masks with a toucan. I have an elephant. I have a little leopard. And they're very sweet. I have made about a dozen. and now, alas, I am completely running out of

elastic. And the worst thing is that in order to wind bobbins, I have to be able to loosen the main wheel. And either because I'm 87 years old and my hands are weaker, or because the man who recently serviced my machine tightened the wheel so much, I'm unable to release that wheel so that I can wind bobbins again. As soon as I've run out of bobbin, I'm done. Alex Cates Shulman. Usually these days, when you hear the term midlife crisis, it creates an image of a middle-aged man. He's bought himself a motorbike or a sports car or found himself a younger model in place of his wife. That was not what the American journalist Gail Sheehy intended when in 1976 she wrote a book called Passagers, Predictable Crises of Adult Life. It was a huge bestseller and was the work of a committed feminist. Her idea of the midlife crisis was that it would give men

and women a chance to break out of the typical gender roles they'd taken on and give men the opportunity to become more involved with house and home, as the children grew up and left, and give women the choice to broaden their lives in the world outside the home. There was a backlash. Why? Well, Suzanne Schmidt is a research associate and lecturer in history at Freyja University in Berlin and the author of Midlife Crisis, the Feminist Origins of a Chauvinist Cliché. Suzanne, why did you want to write about Gail Sheehy? I was really interested in the history of the midlife crisis, mostly because it seemed to me an idea that didn't have a history where people hadn't looked at the history. And when I came across Gheorghi's book,

that was something that I certainly had not expected to find, to see that the midlife crisis was at first a feminist idea. That really surprised me. And so I wanted to learn more about that. How did she actually define the middle years? Do you mean in terms of age? Yeah. Well, she said the middle years were a period of about 10 years between the age of 35 and 45. And she spoke to both men and women about how they perceived that time of their life. What sort of things did the women tell her? The women usually told her that they were pretty unhappy with their lives,

that they were trying to, very influenced by the women's movement, trying to change their lives, that they were unhappy with being just at home, just taking care of the kids, that they wanted to finish their education, re-embark on a career that perhaps they had started and then abandoned to stay at home and take care of their family and their children. And how did the men view that time in their lives? The men weren't very happy either, but their dissatisfaction was mostly about their professional lives and their careers. And so some of them were unhappy because they felt at, say, age 40, they had live in New York or in other urban areas in the United States. And many of them are quite successful, actually. And even the successful men tell her that they are unhappy because they find that professional success does not mean happiness in life necessarily. So some of them were maybe interested in following her ideas

about cutting back a bit on the professional life and taking more interest in the home or not? Yes, definitely. Yes, definitely. For the men, the stories that Shihi tells are of men who cut back on their professional lives. Many of them take up baking classes, for example. They decide to take care of the home more often, also to give their partners, their wives,

more time for their own professional careers. So it's very much what she describes, a switch in gender roles that happens for both men and women in the 30s and 40s. Now Passages was a huge bestseller. It sold like crazy. What was the reaction to it when people started to read what her ideas were? Oh, people loved it. Women mostly read it, actually.

We can tell from women's magazines or from where the book was accepted. It was mostly accepted in magazines that were catering to a female audience. And they write her letters and they are really excited about the book. And the letters that they write are very much like what you hear from consciousness-raising groups, that the book helps them to understand their lives better, that Shigi really writes about what they are feeling alone at home and that they are understanding that what they are feeling and what they are experiencing is not isolated,

but is part of a much more general experience. But one of the interesting things about passages is that it's read not just by lay readers if you will but it's also read by professionals and by academics and researchers and they quite like it as well so there are psychologists who read the book and there are social workers and psychiatrists counselors they read passages they write reviews in professional journals of passages. And they like the accessible style and they like the ideas that Sheehy presents. So how did the backlash happen?

The backlash comes first from this academic audience. And it's specifically three people who write their own books about the midlife crisis. It's a psychologist called Daniel Levinson and two psychiatrists, George Valiant and Roger Gould. And they are not so happy with Sheehy's feminist description of the midlife crisis. And they say that the midlife crisis. They say that the midlife crisis exists, but that from their own research, which focuses on men at the time, they do not see that in women. That's an unsecretory, right? They don't look at women's lives. And so they say that the midlife crisis from their own studies is a male experience and does not apply to women.

So who had those opponents to her ideas spoken to about midlife? They had interviewed men, almost exclusively. Solely men? Sometimes they say they interviewed women, too, to ask them about their husbands. So the focus very strictly is on men here. So what was the effect of an idea that was pretty much the opposite of his view, when these people were saying, no, it's only men who have this problem? The effect was quite surprising. This idea of the male midlife crisis, which

described the midlife crisis for men as a kind of playboy experience, where men leave their wives and they buy a new sports car, they build a penthouse. So this midlife crisis that's so starkly different from what Sheehy writes about is surprisingly successful. And people read these books presented by Levinson, Valiant and Gould as books that have more authority because they come from academics, because they are written by psychologists and credentialed psychiatrists. And they take the descriptions of male midlife crises in these books to be more accurate than what Sheehy says about the midlife crisis.

Because Sheehy was a a journalist wasn't she and not an academic because she exactly that's how people see her and these three experts um they they are they are quite busy themselves actually as presenting themselves as being more authoritative than she he. So they are successful in part because Sheehy was successful before them and because people want to know more about midlife crisis. And they play that game very well of presenting themselves as the right experts and the people to listen to.

But briefly, Suzanne, how important have her contributions to ideas about midlife turned out to be in the long term? I think really important. I think if you look at what people say today about midlife crisis, and I think if you look at the books that have recently been published on midlife crisis, such as, for example, Sheila Hattie's book on motherhood or the debate between Sheryl Sandberg and Anne-Marie Slaughter, that's also about middle age and about the question of having a career and dropping out and returning to the world of work. You can see that many of the ideas that Sheehy talks about

are the same issues that we are grappling with still today. Suzanne Schmidt, thank you very much indeed for joining us this morning. Now we've all become only too aware in recent weeks of how important scientists are in helping us make sense of some frighteningly complex and shocking things that affect us all. And it's obviously a very good idea to get young people excited about the role they might play if they study science. Well, dear Vincent is 12 and she's been awarded the GSK UK Young Scientist of the Year Award in the Big Bang competition for her project, Microgreens from Goldfish. Well, she joined me earlier this morning and explained what Microgreens from goldfish is all about. It's an experiment on

finding the best method to grow organic salad cress in our homes just using a fish tank. We compared several methods and then the best one which grew the fastest it's called the fish water stream. I made water from the fish tank flow through a channel and into the salad crest, which grew in the channel. And it was fertilised by fish waste. What gave you the idea to do this? Well, my grandfather, who lives in a tropical country, he has a fish cultivation outside where he grows spinach in little pipes and he uses the fish waste as fertilizer as well. You did use three different methods can you just explain to me what those three methods were? Well one of the methods was called the fish water wick we made water from the fish tank go up the wick and into the plants and the

other method was called the controlled method where we use normal water not from the fish tank and we grew micro greens and the third method was the one which grew the best it's called the fish water stream and as I said we made water from the fish tank flow through a channel. And how long did it take for the greens to grow? For the fish water stream, the one which worked the best, it took seven days. And for the fish water week, it took 10 days. And then for the control method, it took a little longer. What does your experiment reveal to us all? It shows us that we can grow microgreens without using harmful fertilizer in a very short amount

of days. Now you had to do I know a video presentation of your entry at the Big Bang Fair but it had to be cancelled because of the virus. How many people were you competing against? I think it's around 1,000 maybe, not at the finals. At the finals it was 300 people. How surprised were you to win? I was really surprised as I think I'm among one of the youngest competitors and it's the first time I ever competed in a competition. Now your brother entered last year. What did he do? He did an experiment on finding nuclear radiation. But he didn't win, did he? No. Was he pleased, do you think, that you won? Or might he have been a bit jealous? Well, he was happy for me, but just a little bit jealous. What did he say to you when you'd won? He was like really surprised. He said, really?

And what did little sister say back? Oh, I said, yes, I did win. And he shouldn't be that surprised. How long have you known that you really like science and like doing experiments? I think it was when I was really young because my dad is really keen on science and astronomy. And then I think I've taken up his interest, so has my brother. So how much does your father help you with the experiments that you do? Or do you do them just all by yourself? I did it mostly by myself but my father did help me help me with the more dangerous stuff like he bought the equipment. Why was it dangerous?

The soldering was really dangerous. No you wouldn't want to be using a solder iron all by yourself would you? No. Fathers do come in handy sometimes, don't they? Yes. So what are you planning to do when you leave school? I hate to use the words grow up, but I mean, you are only 12. I'm thinking about that, but when I grow up, I think I want to be a doctor researcher who helps cure diseases and find remedies. You won £2,000. What are you going to do with all that money? Well, I want to donate some of my money to a charity called Garden Organic, who researches in organic cultivation and also helps schools with gardening projects.

And I want to use some of it for expanding my project in building an outdoor fish pond version to grow spinach and lettuce. Now, I know you're not going to school today, like most children in the country, but you are doing schoolwork from home. How are you managing with that? Well, the work can sometimes be a bit overloading, but it's really relaxing staying at home to not wake up early every day. So what's your next experiment going to be? Probably expanding my project and making it in a bigger version outside in a fish pond. We're talking to dear Vincent. And we had an email from Judy on the question of learning disabilities in lockdown. She said it was riveting to hear about Louis and Alison's situation. It's brilliant that he's supported in the way he has chosen with a loyal mum and staff at hand.

And it's lovely to have a happy story about lockdown. My own daughter had just transferred to a new care home closer to her own home and it's a worry. It's a perpetual close relationship, very rewarding and taxing at the same time. I look forward to discovering Alison's book. Now do join me tomorrow when we'll be discussing Unorthodox. You may have seen the Netflix series which tells the story of Esty Shapiro, a teenager who flees her Jewish Hasidic community in New York and an arranged marriage for a new life in Berlin.

The four-part drama series is based loosely on Deborah Feldman's 2012 autobiography, Unorthodox, The Scandalous Rejection of My Hasidic Roots, and she will join me tomorrow. I'll also be joined by the MP Caroline Noakes, Chair of the Women and Equality Select Committee. She'll be discussing the committee's inquiry into the impact of COVID-19 and the government's response to it on women. Join me tomorrow, two minutes past 10 if you can. Bye-bye.

I'm Sarah Treleaven, and for over a year, I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who's faking pregnancies. I started like warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy.

And the deeper I dig, It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.