Woman's Hour - Amanda Owen & Clare Eglin on women feeling the cold, Clare Balding on Rachael Blackmore, Pippa Wicks & teacher Andria Zafirakou

Episode Date: April 12, 2021

Shepherdess Amanda Owen & the academic Clare Eglin talk about why women tend to feel colder than men. We talk to Clare Balding about Rachael Blackmore the first woman to win the Grand National this weekend. As lockdown eases and the shops reopen, we talk to the Executive Director of John Lewis Pippa Wicks and Andria Zafirakou who won a million dollar global teaching prize tells us how she's spending the money and talks about her new book "Those Who Can, Teach - What it Takes to Make the Next Generation."Presenter: Emma Barnett Producer: Lisa Jenkinson Studio Engineer: Gayl Gordon

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme, peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, I'm Emma Barnett and welcome to Woman's Hour from BBC Radio 4. Good morning. Her Majesty the Queen sent this programme on all of you, its listeners, her best wishes at the start of the year to mark the 75th birthday of Woman's Hour. And as a programme that focuses on the lives of women, we wanted to take a moment to think of the Queen today as she mourns the death of Prince Philip, the Duke of Edinburgh, her husband of 73 years. The tributes to the Duke have focused on his public service

and his support for young people, in particular through the Duke of Edinburgh Award. And today we're joined by the UK teacher who won a million dollars for her work in a London school, inspiring her pupils to achieve all they could. Well, this is your chance to tell us about the teacher that changed your life or had the biggest impact. Who were they? What did they teach? What was it that they said to you that has stayed with you and perhaps altered the course of your life? You can text us here at Woman's Hour on 84844. Text will be charged at your standard message rate. Do check with your network provider for those costs

on social media. We're at BBC Woman's Hour. Or email us through our website. And can I ask, if you do do that, leave your number so we could call you back to talk about your story more and potentially get you on the air with me. Also today, we had to play you this.

No female rider has won the Grand National. Rachel Blackmore is out in front. Also today, we had to play you this. On this cold April afternoon, Rachel Blackmore becomes the first female rider to win the Grand National. What an amazing story. An amazing story indeed. Happened on Saturday. Claire Balding will be with us to put this moment into perspective. And also today, if you're feeling the cold, maybe you feel it every day. You are not alone. Having mentioned in passing how cold I regularly feel last week, one of our listeners, one of you got in touch, sitting in Lanzarote, may I add,

hopefully feeling a bit warmer than us here in the UK, saying that she always felt the cold and wanted to know, do women feel it more than men? This seems to have sparked something. We're going to have the answer for you coming up with an expert on this and also someone who works in the cold or works through all weathers to tell us how she copes. I can't tell you how many of you already have got in touch with us this morning on social media. Lauren says, I'm freezing from the end of September to May despite wearing thermals every day and with little to no hope of my hands and feet warming up until the temperature does. Working from home has finally meant though not having to suffer in freezing cold offices

and wearing gloves at my desk. But Bonita, keen to balance this out, has got in touch on Instagram to say, I climbed Everest and I'm surprised to hear this and I found I got less cold than all my male teammates. And some men getting in touch say they're pretty cold too. But we'll have the answers for you coming up. In the meantime, do tell us how you stay warm. Because, of course, today, certainly in England,

we're in a situation now where some of our freedoms are coming back to us, albeit outside. So staying warm is quite key, certainly if you look at the forecast. Are you ready to go back to shops to buy clothes in real life or, you know, browse a bookshop? Today, non-essential shops in England and Wales have opened after more than three months of closure. It's been a very difficult year for retailers and shop staff.

Thousands of jobs have been lost, some stores closed altogether. Thousands more job losses are expected this year. Women are the most likely casualties as they make up 60% of the British retail sector. The John Lewis Partnership, which also owns Waitrose, recently announced it would not be reopening eight of its stores, affecting nearly 1,500 jobs. The employee-owned group has closed almost a third of its stores in the past year, have reported an annual pre-tax loss of £570 million compared to pre-tax profit of £147 million the previous year. So what is the future looking like for the high street? Can we be tempted back or have we lost the habit or perhaps it will be completely different? Pippa Wicks, executive director of the John Lewis Partnership. She's in their Milton Keynes store this morning.

Pippa, first of all, is it open? How is it? It's about to open. We're really excited. And good morning, Emma. Thank you for having me joining you this morning. Are you worried? Is there a moment of nerves here as you as the boss of John Lewis of this part of the business open the doors again? Not worried, really excited. We've seen people outside already queuing in your comments about chilly weather. Obviously, it's going to be a little bit chilly queuing, but we have lovely partners who are helping them in the queues, chatting to them about what's new in store, making them feel welcome. I'm really excited about people coming back. We've seen some really interesting sales patterns in the last few weeks. So the sales addresses were up 200 percent last week.

Handbags were up 100 percent and makeup up 50 percent. So I think we are seeing people getting ready to sort of socialise, spend time with friends and family and wanting to get out of the clothing perhaps they've been wearing all through the last year. Lots of sales of fragrance, lots of range cookers, which might imply that people are going to get back to entertaining. So I think we will see good, careful returning of shoppers to branches, but also online shopping has clearly increased over the last year. And we do expect that to be a significant part of people shopping going forward as well. What's the ratio of sales now with John Lewis? How much is done online

versus in store? I recognise you've just been closed, but can you give us an insight as to where it is at the moment? Absolutely. So before the pandemic, we were selling about 40% online and that was increasing very steadily. We expect this to be around 60 to 70% online as we open up and have more normal trading. But what we know from talking to our customers is that 50% of the time when they're buying a product, they will start the journey online. Then they go into store to try something and then they go back to pay for it online, maybe buy some accessories. I mean, think about if you were buying Emma a sofa, you might look up and see what's online or what our ranges look like.

Do you feel tempted by any of them? And then you probably would want to go in a store to sit on it, feel it, feel the fabric. Well, that's the problem, isn't it? You know, 25,000 people and counting have signed up a petition to keep your Sheffield store open. You know, there's huge passion for shops to stay open, physical shops. I've already received messages to that effect. And I was very struck by a column in The Times last week by Anne Trenneman, I don't know if you saw this, says she will not forgive John Lewis for closing her local shop, saying you've bought into the online myth, she's cut up her loyalty card.

What do you say to customers like her who want to do exactly what you said and go and sit on a sofa? So it's really unfortunate when retailers have to close stores and we've proposed some closures that you've referred to and that's unfortunate for the communities, for the customers and the partners. These stores were financially challenged before the pandemic. We've seen what online has done. We expect it to be around 60, 70 percent. 80 percent of John Lewis customers will be within 35 to 45 minutes of a John Lewis

store and we do know that people will travel that far to our stores. Equally we're making shopping with John Lewis more convenient. We have a thousand places you can do click and collect. It's next day click and collect and we have next day delivery. So it is unfortunate for those proposed closures and these are very difficult decisions to make but we have to make those decisions to preserve the feasibility of the rest of the partnership. But I suppose it's how you if she doesn't want to drive there, it's just going with that for a moment. How can you get somebody like that almost to forgive that relationship, that bond that has built up and now feels broken? Well, I hope that we'll be able to do that. We do a lot of our services online. So

in lockdown, after the first lockdown, within three weeks, we had stood up all of our services online. So today you can meet virtually with partners through videos, through telephone, whatever way suits you. You can have consultations for styling your home. You can have baby consultations, advice on which car seats to buy, personal styling consultations. So many of the things that go on in store now also go on online. And if actually you would like some help with choosing things for your home, perhaps you're refurbishing, then we do have partners who go into people's homes and help them with mood boards and samples and using virtual reality to actually port our sofas our chairs into customers homes into the rooms that they're trying to renovate so they

can actually see what it looks like i suppose you'll have to see i mean i don't want to turn this into an advert for your shop and i'm sure you you won't be doing that in terms of talking more broadly here about the high street but i suppose you'll have to see it's a gamble. You'll have to see if those things do take the place in people's kind of hearts and minds, especially because we realise we've missed going to shops. It's a social activity and actually being in places with people. Just a word on the finances, if we can. Of course, you refer there to people losing their jobs. There'll be a lot of people who don't have the spare cash, of course, to go shopping,

which we should also be aware of, or they certainly might be saving it for other things. Is it right that the government has supported the partnership overall, which includes, of course, Waitrose, to the tune of £190 million? Absolutely. We're incredibly grateful for the government's support. We've used those funds for what was intended. So we've protected jobs and we've enabled ourselves to do some further restructuring so that we're stronger in the future.

It's given us the space to reposition so that people can get back in touch with us through our better invested branches going forward and through our online business. As a partnership, we don't have recourse to equity markets. And so this money from the government has been incredibly helpful. We made an underlying loss. We made a loss, including writing down our stores. You'll have seen that, some 500 million plus loss. And actually half our business was closed for the majority of last year. I was just going to ask, is there any chance of paying any of that back? Are there any plans to do so? I recognise it may not be possible with what you've just outlined, but some brands are.

No, there are no plans to pay it back because we've used it for the reasons that it was provided. And also, you know, just to recall that none of our partners will be taking a bonus for the first time in 67 years. So it's been important to help us make sure the partnership is in a very good position going forward and can have a thriving future. How concerned are you, it's very striking at the partnership at John Lewis, that the majority of those in charge are women and also the strong proportion that are female within the partnership overall. But how concerned are you with the whole retail sector, your background before this was at the co-op, about how hard job losses are going to hit women in particular. I think job losses, I mean, we're about 60% female in the partnership.

I think the job losses will hit men and women equally. And, you know, it's very important for businesses to make sure they properly support anybody who's having to go and look to work elsewhere. We do that in the partnership, other businesses do that, really setting them up well to go and have a bright future. We are looking to redeploy as many partners from our proposed closed branches as possible. They potentially will go to other branches, and they'll also go into customer service roles as possible. They potentially will go to other branches and they'll also go into customer service roles as well. And because they're experts in our products, it means that when customers ring us up to get advice or have a virtual consultation, the partners that they

speak to are real experts in those products. When I said about hitting women harder, I meant across the sector, retail is a greater employer of women. That's what I meant, not just at your business. So there is that concern about where those women will then go in those roles. Just a word on changing rooms. They've been allowed to open. It's, of course, a USP, a unique selling point of what it is to go into a shop versus being online. Are you concerned people won't actually want to come in and touch products or do any of that? What have you been looking at in

terms of customer behaviour on that front? I think they will come in and want to do that. Obviously, we're being very, very careful. I mean, the customer safety is paramount as we reopen and making sure the social distancing and no busy areas in the stores. But the changing rooms are open. We will be quarantining product, depending on what kind of product it is, for six to 48 hours. Everybody will be wearing the right protective masks and so on.

And I think that we can make it a safe environment and it gives us the opportunity to do the personal styling consultations that our customers so love as well. Well, we will see. What's the thing you're most excited to buy in person again? Oh, I'm really excited.

I love to cook. So I'm off to go get some pans and pots. I've sort of worn a few of them out over the last year. So I'm really excited to go and do that. I'm sure people can relate. Pippa Wicks, Executive Director of the John Lewis Partnership. Jane on email said, we don't all want

to shop online. The retailers do have to listen and understand this. Another one, my parents are in their 80s would not buy and do not buy online. The assumption that everyone's comfortable with this approach is misplaced. They're the generation with the money. Big mistake. Well, perhaps you'll be getting back out there today to go to the shops. Let us know how you're doing. But last week on the show, I did mention that I always seem to feel cold and

feel the cold. This did prompt a listener, Kate, to get in touch, which I mentioned earlier. This was her email. Just responding to a throwaway line from Emma B this morning. I live in sunny Lanzarote, but I constantly feel quite chilly. I'm definitely not ill. Is this actually a thing? People on the beach today here in swimwear and I have on at the very least a sweatshirt. I'd love to know if this is more common for women. Kate, I feel heard. I feel with you and with the temperatures being what they are today, not in Lanzarote here in the UK. And I recognise it varies right across. First rule of radio, potentially never talk about the weather because it's always different where you are from someone else. But while our social freedoms are being restored little by little, but outside mainly, is there something in women feeling the cold more? I will come to your many messages on this, but let's sort this out, please. First of all, with Claire Eglin, who's a principal lecturer in human and applied physiology with the University of Portsmouth. And we're also going to talk to Amanda Owen, a shepherdess who you may know from Channel 5's

Our Yorkshire Farm, who's joining us today. And I can see because we're having to do this all over Zoom due to social distancing, with a roaring fire in the background. Amanda, just to say to you, I'm very jealous of that. Good morning. Good morning. Yes, it was minus 7.5 at half past five this morning. So, yeah.

Right, we're going to talk to you about how you make this work in just a moment. But Claire, first of all, to put it to you, do women feel the cold more than men? Good morning. Thank you very much for having me. Yes, generally women do feel colder than men. And that's due to a number of reasons. Firstly, women tend to be smaller than men. And so they've got a larger surface area to volume ratio, and therefore they lose heat more quickly. They also tend to have

less muscle mass, so they can produce less heat. So they've got a smaller boiler if you like to keep them warm. Oh, great. Yeah. So yeah, that's some of the reasons why, you know, women do feel smaller, feel colder. If we tend to, if we get men and women of the same size, same body fatness, same fitness, then those differences do tend to disappear. But that's fairly rare. Generally, men are larger, have more muscle mass. But women are also more sensitive to the cold in that their blood vessels constrict more quickly when they're in the cold. So their skin temperature falls, which is great because that means that you don't lose as much heat to the environment. But unfortunately, it also means that you then feel colder because the temperature of your hands and feet are very important in determining how comfortable you feel with your environment and the temperature that you sense. For reasons I could never understand, cold water swimming, wild water swimming has

really taken off and people getting in touch with varying experiences of this saying it helped them if they were a cold person before get better with it. You've looked at this, there's been experiments in this area, what do we know about that? Well, if you repeatedly expose yourself to colds, that you do get adaptations. And probably the first thing that people notice when they go into cold water is that they get this huge cold shock and their breathing increases. They find they can't hold their breath. Their heart rate goes up and it's a big shock. If you repeatedly immerse yourself into cold water, that shock does reduce such that you can go in without's a big shock if you repeatedly immerse yourself into cold water that shock does reduce such that you can go in without having a big gasp into the cold water and we also get

other changes occurring in that you feel the water temperature doesn't feel as cold you feel more comfortable and that is why if you've done repeated um, then you find being in cold water a lot more comfortable. But that's only up to a point because in cold water, you can lose heat very rapidly. Once your core temperature does start to fall, then you will feel uncomfortable and cold. But you need to get out before that happens. Claire, let me ask you, Sarah says that her husband is convinced that men cannot tolerate cold water as well as women because of less fatty flesh. I love swimming outdoors, but he will only do so if the temperatures in the 90s, it's physically painful for him. Anything in that? Well, it's quite difficult to differences between men and women,

because if you're static in cold water, the muscles that haven't got any blood flow into them act as a lot of insulation. So if you start exercising, you lose that insulation. And so therefore you could be losing heat to the environment. If you've got a lot of fat, on the other hand, that's like fixed insulation. And so we'll keep that heat in. So it's very dependent on firstly how much insulation you have got but also how much heat you can produce so your ideal say cross channel swimmer is someone who's got quite a lot of subcutaneous fat to keep that heat in but has got a lot of muscle to produce a lot of heat

and has also got a lot of endurance as well and other other comments and questions coming about hormones and oestrogen playing a part in our temperature. What those hot flushes that we feel, that's mainly due to a reduction in oestrogen. Yes, I was advised this morning by one woman to try the menopause because I'll suddenly find I'm not cold anymore. But of course, then you see a whole other thread developing of conversation beneath that comment saying, well, I didn't get any hotter during the menopause. So I'll just say at this point, to some of the messages I've had that were rather snippy in tone, I know not everybody's the same

and I know not everybody is going to feel the same at different stages, but we are looking at the cold and how women cope with it. Amanda, a shepherdess, what is it like for you? Do you feel the cold going out, as you just described, in very nippy climes? Absolutely, I do.

I mean, I always think i have become a climate acclimatized to it i feel like i'm almost evolving into my environment i mean you can imagine i'm literally furring up i have no trouble with thinning eyebrows or anything like that because literally i feel like i'm adaptive to where i live you know i enjoy swimming outside and all the rest of it but on a daily, I go out there in sub-zero temperatures. My hands, my extremities, I do have to wear gloves. And I wear wool, which is the perfect insulator, I feel, layer upon layer upon layer.

But, of course, it's all to do with physical activity as well. What you're actually doing, standing around, is just the worst thing well that's why in the cold i was going to say those those people who got up and and praise them uh i think it was in huddersfield i heard on the today program this morning you know they got up uh i got to go to the pub at one minute past midnight so they could enjoy the drink and i think it was minus four and i thought well you're just going to be sitting because that's what you the only way you're allowed to do this under the new rules sitting there with a pint absolutely I mean I was gathering um three

days ago up at Wissendill bringing the sheep down and I had to sit and wait because I was whistling for the sheep to move down the valley and my sheep dog was sat next to me and I was using my sheep dog as a hand warmer I literally was putting my hands under her fur just to get some of that residual heat I mean I'm somebody who uses a balaclava as everyday workwear. You know, that is me. Two hats, all the rest of it. But, you know, I'm here to tell the tale. You are. Cracked fingers, blue lips, plenty of moisturiser. And, you know, that's me, isn't it?

I am asking, and people are getting in touch, what they do to keep warm. I mean, if you don't have a sheep to go to the pub with, we can't quite do what you've just described. But I wanted to know if it ever demotivates you, that feeling of you've got to get out, do your job in the cold. I mean, you were in the headlines last week for talking. You've got nine children, I believe. I have got nine children. I have got nine children.

They're not at the moment. A few have gone back to school. A few are at school. I'm got nine children. Yes, I can. I have got nine children. They're not at the moment. A few have gone back to school. A few are at school. I'm down on my little work bus this morning. You were in the news last week talking about, you know, helicopter parenting and these kids not being able to do enough for themselves and making sure that they are self-sufficient. But I wondered for your motivational purposes, how do you actually deal with getting yourself up and out and at them?

I feel like that is the sort of price you pay for where you live. I feel like you get out what you put in the fire that I'm sitting against now. I feel like I do have a bit more of an appreciation of it, bearing in mind that a few hours ago I was out and it was minus seven and a half. So I feel like it kind of sort of juxtapositions it that that if you put that effort in you kind of reap the rewards I've always said to the children there's no such thing as bad weather it's wrong clothes so there you go and I feel like I have to practice what what I preach how many how many layers do you wear when you get up in the morning uh one two I'm not gonna strip don't worry people can't see this at home but

you can I know I've got I've got I've got four layers on at the moment but I can go to another layer but you see again it's striking that balance if you put too many layers on and I end up looking like marshmallow man then I can't actually operate and do things so it's kind of striking the right balance I can feel when I'm almost losing my faculties I can feel it because it's so cold because it is so cold after we had six weeks of snow on the ground between Christmas and the middle of February and I was looking for sheep out at the moor and I was wearing ski goggles because you know that pain you get across the top of your forehead it was like ice cream had it was that it was

agonizing it was like having micro dermabrasion on your face because the snow was blowing at you and I was just I was snuggled up inside but I had to get it right because I would overheat because I couldn't move so there is a you know you kind of have to get it right and you know you're only one step off hypothermia at the end of the day. You know, people think about this country as being very, you know, very safe and there's no places that you can lose your life. If you get it wrong, it's very quick. It doesn't take long for you to start almost losing your senses.

You can find your sensibilities dwindling. You're not thinking quite right. So you have to protect against that. Well, no, that is important. Are you can find your sensibilities dwindling you're not thinking quite right so you have to protect against that well no that is important are you colder than your husband doing the same sort of work is there a difference that well he is his hands he doesn't wear gloves i have to wear gloves he doesn't i mean my hands are ruined i mean i've got terrible hands um but i have to wear gloves because. And he doesn't. He doesn't. He doesn't. He doesn't. And I also sometimes wear two pairs of socks as well inside Wellington's too.

But I guess it depends on where your levels are. I mean, you know, saying you're cold, what does that actually mean? You know, I used to, as a teenager, go out clubbing in Huddersfield wearing very little. So it was. I always had a coat. I always had a coat. I know it cost a pound to put it into the cloakroom. If you went in somewhere where there was that sort of thing, most of the time it was on the floor in Manchester where I was. But yes, I always did. I never understood how you couldn't. And I look at people still, you know, with bare ankles at the moment.

And I think, how are you doing this? Claire, just a final word to you. People getting in touch. I mean, for instance, Francis said, a plumber installing a shower said, women like hotter water than men. Other messages talking about people just shivering right now at their desks, listening to us and always having hot water bottles with them, whatever.

Just let me read you this from April, who says, I've spent most of my life being cold. Most of my clothes, all knitwear, gloves, vests. I'm only ever warm when I'm in the Caribbean. However, the last few years I've been menopausal, so hot and cold. It's a wonder the knob on the thermostat hasn't fallen off. But since my divorce, it's just me and my daughter. So no man complaining. It's too hot. Ideal.

Claire, final word to you, Claire Eglin. Is there anything you would recommend that women in particular could do to warm up? Well, I think it's just what Amanda has said is wearing appropriate clothing, not sitting still. If you're at the desk, you know, get up occasionally, walk around, produce a bit of heat and, you know, wear clothing that's suitable for the environment. And perhaps you have to leave fashion behind a bit to make sure that you keep warm. I think I have looked like a snowman, certainly sitting in tents on College Green for election nights.

And I've slightly even hallucinated. I remember Nigel Farage came in and I didn't actually notice him to talk to him because I was so cold at one point. So all these things are quite funny and how you cope with the cold. Thank you so much for talking to us today, both of you, and keeping us warm with your ideas.

Keep your messages coming in. And actually, my next guest, I'm sure she'll have something to say about keeping warm. I'll tell you who that is in just a moment. But I've got to tell you about the beginning of the programme. We did hear that glorious clip from the Grand National on Saturday. Rachel Blackmore becoming the first female jockey to win in the world's most famous steeplechase, riding Manila Times 44 years after Charlotte Brew at the age of 21 was the first woman to ride in the world's most famous steeplechase, riding Manila Times 44 years after Charlotte Brew at the age of 21 was the first woman to ride in the race.

The 31-year-old Irish woman won the 173rd race. Here's Rachel having just won, talking to the BBC reporter Elizabeth Hudson. She's emotional as well she might be because what an achievement it's been. How are you feeling? Unbelievable. It's just incredible.

That's all I can get out of me right now. That's the words you can find. And it says it all because you are usually so composed. We saw that brilliance out there on the track. What was going through your head as the race was unfolding, Rachel? I just got such an unbelievable passage through the race. Manila Times just jumped fantastic, brought me from fence to fence. I just couldn't believe, you know, I was, I just travelled and jumped everywhere.

And he was, you know, every time I wanted him to move forward, he did. I wish I could give you a better rundown of what happened, but I'm trying to process it all myself. I just got a beautiful passage everywhere. You know, he travelled really well and he jumped really well you know it's a long way home but

he was just unbelievable yeah thank you thank you the broadcaster and author Claire Balding who presented the Grand National for the BBC for 15 years joins us now

who better to talk to Claire how did you feel on Saturday about that? I was really, really emotional. And from a circuit out, and I was watching on the telly at home, but from a circuit out, I started saying to Alice, she's going to win this. You watch her. Alice, your partner, we should say.

Yeah. She's in the perfect position. And she's such a good jockey. She was leading jockey at the Cheltenham Festival. She's been one of the leading lights in Ireland for the last few seasons. And everybody there knows how good she is. But I think this year everyone here has realised.

You're so excited about the opportunity because it's so rare for female jockeys to be given a chance on a leading, you know, on a leading fancy. When you look at the list of the 20 women who've ridden in the race and some of them on multiple occasions Nina Carberry rode in it six times Katie Walsh rode in it six times Katie was the only one that before now had ridden a horse that was right up at the top of the betting she rode Seabass who was third in 2012 before that they're on 200 to one shots 100 to one shots 150 to one shots and actually the really exciting thing about Saturday is not only has Rachel Blackmore achieved something that would only be done in films before in National Velvet and but she also was one of six different female jockeys riding winners on Saturday at meetings across the country it's changing really fast and one of the big changes has been the permission to

be professional and and in the part even really good riders like Nina Carberry and Katie Walsh from racing families both of them with professional jockey brothers neither of them turned professional i.e. got paid to ride Nina Carberry and Rachel Blackmore did and she's proving herself not only worthy but exceptional and if you go down the list of jockeys at the moment jump jockeys there are about four or five that you'd say well they're really really special and she's top of that list she's had to be exceptional to almost give everyone else permission other women permission to be a bit better than average and still get a chance and

that's what I hope is the next change that that actually you get more women coming in. Maybe in 10 years time, we'll have in a field of 40 in the Grand National, 10 female jockeys, because everyone will suddenly realise, well, you're naturally a stone lighter. You can work on your core strength. You can build muscle like Holly Doyle has been doing on the flat and still not be too heavy for this game and not having to sweat every day and diet every day, which affects your mind as well as your body. So actually, I think Rachel Blackmore is a really high class, fantastic example of someone who is outstanding, but will give so many more an opportunity to just move up a level to being better than adequate, but just that permission to be one of the gang, to be in the game, to be able to earn a living from it. She said when winning, I don't feel male or female right now. I don't even feel human. And actually, what's interesting, although it's such a big deal, and I was very struck by the former jockey Lizzie Kelly, she wrote on Twitter saying,

as a little girl, I sat on my pony, pretended to be AP McCoy. Little girls can now pretend to be Rachel Blackmore. Thank you, Rachel, from my 10 year old self. We're talking also about teachers today and and influencers. But, you know, she was almost keen in her statement there to neutralise being female, almost, you know, sort of play that down and just be taken for what she is, which is an amazing competitor. Yeah. And that's another so i come from a obviously a racing background but also a general equestrian background and in eventing and show jumping and dressage men and women have always competed on level terms as long as they've had horses that are good enough but in those sports in a sense you're not relying on a trainer

or an owner to give you permission to ride and pay you for doing so in racing. You are. And I think racing has it's not it's not very good at understanding unconscious bias. And so it says, oh, it's equal opportunity. It's a meritocracy. It's not if you're not given the chance. And that's why I make that point about a lot of women, Lizzie Kelly included, who have ridden in the Grand National, have done so on horses that, frankly, they're going to do well to get them around the race, let alone get placed. So it's not an equal opportunity unless you're given rides on the best horses. Then you can prove, as Rachel Blackmore absolutely has done at Cheltenham and at Aintree, that you can compete because it's, and I think she's reluctant, and I think Lizzie Kelly has been as well, to play the female card because they know what that will do to them in terms of the reaction within racing, which is a very traditional and is a very male-dominated

sport. But I think quite quickly will become a really open place for women to excel, to get to the top, not just be working in yards. There's more than, you know, if you look in most racing yards, well over 50% of stable staff are female. But it's the now, go on, now get your chance in riding in races and indeed training. Well, of course, we wanted to talk to you because you can give us that insight.

But I think also just the Grand Nationals, one of those races that even if you're not into anything to do with the question of you look at it and then to see a woman going over, you know, just seeing that it was just so joyous for so many people. And, you know, the really exciting thing is that we're still talking about it on Monday. And when I go out for my for my walk, I will get stopped, as I have been all weekend, by people saying, God, wasn't that great on Saturday? Wasn't that fantastic? And I saw Sheila Fogarty actually put on Twitter, coming back on the train, everyone was talking about it. And that's what I love. It's created a buzz of positivity because it's not just unusual it's history making and I think Rachel bless her is is quite reluctant to invite that attention on herself because she and I get it I totally understand

the same thing you know when I was presenting the Grand National or presenting Grandstand I never wanted to be saying anything about being a woman doing that job because you just want to do the job so I absolutely understand that but when you look at it and you put it in context, it's not only an outstanding achievement for her personally, it will have such a big impact going forward because there is no reason, if women are given the chance on good horses, I'd love to see more women consistently riding in the derby at Epsom.

That never happens. That hardly ever happens. You're not on a horse with a chance. You've got your proof and you're also speaking on the programme where you're allowed to shout about it here on Woman's Eye. Just finally, how did you stay warm? How do you stay warm when you're outside? We've been talking about women being colder than men.

Do you get cold, Claire Balding? I have been in situations where I've been very cold. I actually try, I really consciously try to drop my shoulders. OK, I'm doing it now. Yeah, so when I'm feeling really cold, I just think, you're on a beach, you're on a beach, drop your shoulders, feel the sun. And when you do that, it stops. Because when you get cold, you tense.

So I try and drop my shoulders and that helps. But Claire, you're one of those women that I always will look to for advice, practical advice and insight. Claire Balding, thank you very much. We'll drop our shoulders in honour, of course, of Rachel Blackmore there making history, being the first woman to win the Grand National. Well, let's talk about another woman who has inspired and won a big prize because of it. In 2018, an art and textiles teacher from a secondary school in northwest London won the $1 million Global Teacher Prize. Art teacher Andrea Zafirakou impressed the judges with her approach to teaching and caring for the children at Alperton Community School in Brent,

where over 80 languages are spoken and deprivation levels are high. Mending uniforms, calling social services, shielding vulnerable teens from gangs, all form part of a job in such a school. But her chief passion has always been the power of visual art to create confidence and unlock trauma in her pupils. Andrea has now spent the prize money. We'll hear about how in just a moment, but also written a book called Those Who Can Teach What It Takes to Make the Next Generation. Andrea, thank you so much for joining us.

Congratulations again. How have you spent the money? Morning, Emma. The money has been spent on creating a charity called Artists in Residence. And what we do, we create opportunities to get role models, the artists into schools to work in diverse communities across the country

to inspire our young people in a career in arts and just to have joy as well. Career in arts. Now, talk to us about that. You keep a laminated document, I'm told, in your top drawer for anyone who says the arts aren't important. You can't work in them. So when I was younger and I had to take, choose whether or not to do GCSEs, I knew I wanted to take art GCSE. But I went to my parents with a yellow card, which I was given, and I had to choose which box or which options to take. And when I said, mum, I want to do, and dad, I want to do GCSE art, they said, why? What jobs can you get in the arts? No, no, no, it's a waste of time.

No, no, do history do geography be like your sister be a doctor be a solicitor and um and that was that killed that actually killed me Emma my heart just broke and um I've noticed that that that challenge that battle our young people are still facing so one of the students and the students which I know oh my god you're gifted you're gonna you know I can see you being incredible design and architect you're gonna be so you know you've got this but they have to take those and have those difficult conversations at home so that laminate sheet just I'll pull it out when I say look this is what you can become this is real this is a real job this is a real profession you can make money doing this

and be happy. So, yeah. That's part of it. And that's why also you've spent that million dollars, around £700,000 on getting artists to go into schools to help people see it. Because our education system isn't tailored, even from your side of things, on the teaching side of things.

You're not incentivised, are you, to prioritise that as a focus or subject? Of course, the pushback would be, especially those from poorer backgrounds, are you to to prioritize that as a focus or subject of course the pushback would be especially those from poorer backgrounds you need to make sure that they've got what's called the basics english maths perhaps science that's right but sometimes you need the skills to access those basics you need the confidence you need to feel that you have got resilience that you have got communication skills and these are the skills which the arts naturally give you naturally give young people and I will

really challenge that because I've seen it in my classroom I've seen how students who've come in who I've got these labels that they can't or this is this they should achieve. They've just blew us out of the ballpark with how well they have achieved by finding their thing, you know, that kind of that golden glow, that motivational factor in an art room or in a music room or a drama space. You talk about they come into the room. Of course, people haven't been together a lot this year in classrooms or generally.

How have you and your kids in Brent coped in the last year? Because I should say in a regular times you've done things like gone out, bought school uniform for children, washed others. One boy incredibly wore the same shoes in year 11 that he was wearing when he started in year seven. A lot of stories that you share through your writing. But how has it been for your your pupils in the last year I mean the school's been open you know when they say schools are closed actually we've been open and um the amount of pastoral care that the school has provided for all of our community has just been incredible I, we've got a record somewhere, but approximately 4000 phone calls have been made to our young people just to check in.

And, you know, it's been really, it's been incredible what the teachers have done, how we've adapted, teachers across the whole country, how we have adapted into speaking and teaching and learning this really difficult language of technology and online teaching which is so out of our comfort zone and I've actually hated teaching online I could say that I have become a better teacher because I've had to skill up and and learn new things but I've really not enjoyed it Emma it's just going back to school in March was the best day of our life, I think. Really? And for many teachers as well. Yeah, it was just so great to be in that environment with the young people, with my colleagues. It was it was so. Yeah, this is normal. This is how it should be.

The Education Minister, Gavin Williamson, warned last week that long periods and lockdown has impacted on children's discipline and order. Education Department prepared to announce a £10 million behaviour hub programme. Is that what you're seeing? Do you know, I sometimes think, where did they get this info from? You know, where's it come from? You know, is that really what schools have shown who has given this who has given them this intel um what we've seen is the fact that our young people they've enjoyed coming back to school but we've seen mental health issues raised we've we've seen the fact that they're experiencing more of what they've experienced has been quite tragic at home so what we should be helping our young people with finding ways to support their own mental health. And I don't think there's any school in the country who would not agree with

me to say that mental health provision now needs to be our top priority. That is what you're focusing on. I mean, he's also talked about silent corridors, mobile phones being banned during school time, some of these ideas coming to the fore. So when you've got one out of six children who have probably now got mental health conditions in our country and the fact that these have grown by 50% over the last three years, I think that should be a focus, to be honest with you, especially as, you know, these are our children who, and without sounding really kind of Whitney Houston-y, they are the ones who will be looking after us.

They're going to be our doctors. They will be our carers. And I think you didn't want to sound Whitney Houston, but my timing here means that I've got to bring this to a close. They are our future. I'll say it for you. Andrea Zafirakou, thank you very much for talking to us. Those who can teach what it takes to make the next generation is the book. Andrea, thank you. That's all for today's Woman's Hour. Thank you so much for your time. Join us again for the next one.

I'm Sarah Treleaven, and for over a year, I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who was faking pregnancies. I started like warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy.

And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.