Woman's Hour - Anna Fedorova, Women and Gambling, Iran Demonstrations, The End of Covid, Japan's Under-35s Rejecting Marriage

Episode Date: September 22, 2022

What role does music play in providing hope and solidarity when facing the horrors of war? The concert pianist Anna Fedorova is a member of the Ukrainian Freedom Orchestra which performed in concerts around the world over the summer. Ahead of a documentary on BBC 2 this Saturday called Ukraine's Musical Freedom Fighters, she joins Emma to talk about the experience, how she is continuing to support musicians from the Ukraine and why she feels it is imperative she continues to play the work of Russian composers. This week President Joe Biden announced that the pandemic is over in the US despite figures showing 400 Americans on average are dying from the virus every day. This comes after the director of the World Health Organisation recently stated that the pandemic remains a global emergency but the end could be in the sight if countries use the tools at their disposal. Here in the UK the latest figures show Covid infections have fallen to their lowest levels since October last year. Fewer than a million people had the virus in the last week of August. So, is the end in sight? And how prepared are we to believe it? Should we accept normality will resume and we can adjust our behaviour accordingly? Emma Barnett is joined by Professor of Epidemiology, Azra Ghani and Professor Pragya Agarwal to discuss. A new study by the charity GambleAware shows that the cost of living crisis could trigger an increase in women gambling. The survey of more than 1600 women shows that one in four women aged 18-49 who gamble expect to gamble more in the coming months, with 12% of those surveyed already having turned to gambling to try and supplement household income. GambleAware are starting a campaign to target women and break the stigma that prevents them from seeking support. Emma is joined by their Chief Executive, Zoe Osmond and Jo who has been "gamble free" for a year. Demonstrations have spread across Iran sparked by the death of a 22 year old woman, Mahsa Amini. She died days after being arrested by morality police for allegedly not complying with strict rules on head coverings. As we reported on Tuesday, eyewitnesses said she was beaten while inside a police van after being picked up in Tehran. There have now been protests for five successive days - with incredibly powerful scenes across Iran - women burning their headscarves and cutting their hair in protest and eight people have died. Could this be a turning point in how Iran polices women? Faranak Amidi is the BBC Near East Women Affairs correspondent. One in three Japanese people under the age of 35 say they have no plans to marry. Women because they enjoy the freedoms of being single and having a career and men because they worry about being able to financially provide for a family. So what is driving this rejection and what will the long term impacts be on Japan? Dr Jennifer Coates is Senior Lecturer in Japanese Studies at the University of Sheffield and Emily Itami is the author of Fault Lines, she grew up in Tokyo and now lives in London.Photo of Anna Fedorova: Marco Borggreve

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme, peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, I'm Emma Barnett and welcome to Woman's Hour from BBC Radio 4. In a week where the US President Joe Biden has talked of the COVID-19 pandemic being over, today I wanted to get a sense from you of where you are with this. Because today we've heard the first announcements from our new Health Secretary, Therese Coffey, mainly referring to GP appointments and how to improve that system and access to medical care. But how much of your thoughts or concerns

are still wrapped up with COVID? In the UK, the latest figures show COVID infections have fallen to their lowest levels since October last year. I'll be joined by an epidemiologist and a behavioural scientist to give us the latest picture of the science and of how people are responding. But we know from the last two years, women have tended to be more open to mask wearing,

rule following, and yet there are still barriers to pregnant women or younger women from getting vaccinated. Research also shows we're becoming increasingly anxious as a nation in a world that feels unstable with the pandemic, the Ukrainian war and the cost of living crisis, all of which I have to say, totally unplanned, are subjects we touch upon in today's programme. This is the time we're in, I suppose.

But what about you and COVID, but also, I suppose, the climate that we find ourselves in? How are you responding? How is your life changing? Perhaps how are your thoughts different at the moment? It would be very interesting to test the temperature of this with you. 84844 is the number you need to text me here at Woman's Hour. Text will be charged your standard message rate on social media. We're at BBC Woman's Hour or you can email us through our website or send a WhatsApp message or voice note using a different number 03700 100 444. But first,

I wanted to turn our attention to the demonstrations that have spread across Iran, sparked by the death of a 22-year-old woman, Masa Amini. She died days after being arrested by morality police for allegedly not complying with strict rules on head coverings. As we reported on Tuesday, eyewitnesses said she was beaten while inside a police van after being picked up in Tehran. There have now been protests for five successive days,

with incredibly powerful scenes across the country, women burning their headscarves and cutting their hair in protest. And now eight people, we're told, mainly women, but including a 16-year-old boy, have died. Could this be a turning point in how Iran polices women? Well, Farah Nakhamidi, you may remember, was with me earlier this week talking about the details of what we knew at that point. She's the BBC Near East Women Affairs correspondent. Good morning. Good morning. We talked in detail, which people can catch back up on around the context of this, how the morality police work,

the impact on women's lives. You're also your firsthand experience, your family's experience of this. But could this be a turning point now? Well, people are hoping that this could be a turning point. But the authorities in Iran have always insisted that the mandatory hijab is their red line, that they will never back up over it. Because the reality is that the mandatory hijab law is one of the pillars of the Islamic Republic, of this system, of this religious system. It is also one of the pillars of the gender segregation in New Guarana. Without mandatory hijab, gender segregation wouldn't really mean anything. And gender segregation has been needed to keep women marginalized. So a lot of people, although they are on the streets, basically protesting mandatory hijab, they're also saying death to the dictator, death to Khamenei.

They're actually shouting his name. So they're targeting the system in general is not only mandatory hijab. And it has always been said by feminists and women's rights activists, that the protest against mandatory hijab is not just a protest against this one law. It is a protest against the system because this is one of the main pillars of the system. How extraordinary are these scenes to you? Extraordinary. I've been watching people protest, especially in the past few years, protests have been more intensified and the intervals have been shorter and shorter. But you have never seen anything like this. The protests have spread to 80 cities,

cities that we usually don't see such protests in, such cities like Noshar and Mazandaron and up north. These are cities you don't really see much unrest in. And also a super ultra conservative city like Qom, which is the Shia capital of the Middle East. It's the Shia capital of the world or one of the most conservative cities in Iran. You're seeing women on the streets protesting, taking off their hijabs. These are really scenes that we have never seen before. What do you think? Why now? We, of course, talked about the life, the death of 22-year-old Mahsa Amini. What do you think it is about this moment? I think her death, Mahsa Amini's death, was the basically last nail in the coffin, as they call it,

because problems have been boiling underneath for years. Iran is going through severe economic problems. People are getting poorer and poorer and poorer. The middle class is also almost being wiped out. You have severe political oppression, executions, people being arrested for simple posts opposing the state in Iran. So all of this is accumulating and turning to something that people are just not taking it anymore. And this death, I guess, you know, a 22-year-old woman, she wasn't arrested for protesting or anything. She was just going about her daily life, not really committing any crime.

But she turned up dead. Do you think there's hope that there could be a difference in response from the authorities? We know that there's clamping down. We know there's arrests. There's a full response to these protests. But could this be changing anything? Well, from what we are seeing inside, from what we are seeing,

the reaction of someone like the president in the UN General Assembly speech, they don't seem to actually be making any changes or showing any kind of empathy or sympathy. Also, the Supreme Leader was talking the other day, and he didn't even mention anything. So we are not really seeing any difference in the pattern about reactions from the state. But you never know.

It also depends on how other world powers deal with Iran, because condemnations only don't work on a state like Iran. This is a state that is completely isolated, has been under sanctions for decades. So you just coming out as a politician or a diplomat and condemning or giving a statement won't really do anything. They have never cared about condemnations. Nothing then being said of note by the authorities in Iran, the leaders in Iran, but the internet is being shut down. Exactly. Across social media, Instagram, Twitter. Exactly.

That is one of the things that is actually very scary because when such things happen, then killings also happen inside Iran. And this is what is really being very worrying for people. We are seeing a lot of activists actually calling out on Meta and Instagram because right now what we are hearing, I also got a lot of messages on social media from people who are following me outside of Iran, Iranians, that also they have been restricted on WhatsApp

because they have Iranian phone numbers with an Iran country code. So they are in Canada or Germany, but their WhatsApp has been restricted. Also, we are seeing people have been messaging me, sending screenshots of Instagram, restricting them after they have posted posts about Iran protests. That is a response by the state in itself, but it's not a response showing any change or any more leniency. Not at all. Do you think these will carry on? I think they will carry on for now. The protests will carry on.

Yeah, the protests will carry on. This is how it seems. And today also there have been calls for protests all over Iran. Farah Nakhamidi, the BBC's Near East Women Affairs correspondent. Thank you for coming back to update us. The latest on that will keep you up to date. And of course, all of that starting from the death of a 22 year old woman, Massa Amini. You've been getting in touch with your responses to the idea that the pandemic is over. Well, certainly that's what the US President Joe Biden has said in an interview this week. This is despite figures showing 400 Americans on average are dying from the virus every day. And this also

follows words from the director of the World Health Organization, who recently stated that the pandemic remains a global emergency, but that the end could be in sight if countries use the tools at their disposal. Here in the UK, the latest figures show COVID infections have fallen to their lowest levels since October last year. Fewer than a million people had the virus in the last week of August. So is the end in sight? And how prepared are we all to believe it? I'm on the line. I've got Professor Pragera Agarwal, who's a behavioural and data scientist at Loughborough University and Professor of Epidemiology, Azra Ghani from the Imperial College School of Public Health.

Azra, let me start with you. Good morning. Thank you for your time today. Do you see it as the end? It's very difficult to say what is the end and how would we even measure the end? What we do know is that the virus is now endemic across the world. It isn't going away any time soon.

So I think some of the terms are really related more to whether we're going to be in a major crisis again. That is highly uncertain. We know that this virus can mutate and new variants could emerge at any point in time. But the best way for us to protect against that, of course, is through the vaccination programmes that we have in place. A message here, the pandemic is not over for those of us who are extremely vulnerable. If I catch COVID, I cannot get treatment for blood cancer. If I don't get treatment, my symptoms and disease progression will worsen. I've stopped shielding. Oh, excuse me for that interruption on the line. I've stopped shielding and largely stopped wearing a mask due to numerous public verbal attacks. I'm not afraid of COVID, but I'm very afraid of my cancer. So

that's a nuance there that's important to bring out, Azra. Absolutely. And we have to remember that there are a large number of people who are still effectively shielding because the vaccines don't work in those that are immunocompromised. And we do have to be mindful of our own behaviour in that respect and try and minimise the potential for onward transmission. Things like staying at home when you're ill are going to be incredibly important if people are still able to do that. I do appreciate, of course, that's not always possible for people with certain jobs. And about mask wearing and as we go into the winter, are you doing that? Is that what we should be doing? I think it's something for personal choice and also considering the situation that one is in. So in very crowded indoor situations, we know that the virus is much more likely to be transmitted.

And those are riskier situations where one might want to consider wearing a mask in very crowded trains or transport or in very enclosed spaces. Although I know that the majority of those trying to pay their respects to Her Majesty the Queen last week were queuing outside or they were in large groups outside, depending on how that was happening. It's very few masks in sight. You know, it's not something we see that often anymore. I was just wondering, as we headed into winter, what the advice would be? You say it's down to personal preference, but also, is there some factor about regional difference? I don't think we're seeing particular regional differences. We are seeing variation in levels of COVID regionally. This just reflects different patterns happening at different times. In general, obviously, the vaccine programme is the thing that we are really relying on in terms of trying to drive down transmission as well as protecting those at highest risk.

But other aspects of trying to reduce circulating transmission, things like ventilation are also critically important alongside masks. Keeping windows open, of course, much harder as we go into the cold winter and with the cost of living crisis. Just one more to you before I come to Prager about behaviour. There's a message here saying i'm in bed with covid right now i find it hard to believe it's over having avoided it for two and a half years i finally contracted it this week because everybody thinks it's over when it isn't

and people refuse to wear masks or distance just because people want something to be the case doesn't mean it is but you're saying the data shows something else which which just trying to establish the facts what would you say to that no i mean it's certainly not you're saying the data shows something else, which just trying to establish the facts. What would you say to that? No, I mean, it's certainly not over. What I'm saying is that the virus is still circulating. We have it now at high levels across the world. It is at a flatter level. So we're less likely to see the really large peaks and strains on the health system. Although we are, of course, concerned as we go into winter and the strains that we see across the NHS. We also have to bear in mind that other respiratory infections, things like flu, are also likely to emerge again this winter, and we need to

prepare for those. And getting vaccinated for flu, if that is available to you, is also a very good idea. Azra, thank you very much for that. Pragya, let me bring you in to this about people's behaviour. How long does it take for people to shift back to how they were before? It can happen pretty quickly. It depends on the media messaging. It depends on social approval and the norms as well. It depends on who is giving the message and how the message is being given, how clear the message is, how clear the data is, how persuasive the message is. And it is influenced

by social norms. When people perceive that others are doing or what they think that others approve or disapprove of, they're more likely to adopt those practices and behaviors. So as somebody just said, one of your listeners, that they're getting backlash for wearing masks in public spaces, and that's going to stop people from actually adopting these behaviors. We also see from research that the correlation between consumption of conservative news is also linked to reduced physical distancing as well. It also depends on the kind of messaging in the country as well, the society, whether it's a collectivist culture or whether it's an

individualistic culture. And there's some research at this stage to show that the countries in which people were taking more precautionary measures were the ones that were fostering a sense of public unity and cohesion, that we are all in this together and that we are going to look after each other. And what do you think about the UK then? Obviously, we've had a change of leadership. Thinking about the messaging already from this government, only now it's been allowed effectively to restart because we're out of the period of national mourning. Very little has been said about this at all.

Yes, exactly. And I'm not hearing anything in the media now about precautions to take around COVID or whether there are rising rates of hospital admissions. And actually, it's been going on for a while. It's not just recently. I've seen these attitudes differ across different countries as well. I recently went to Detroit for work to give talks and I noticed that more people were wearing masks on planes. They were still using hand cleaning regulations and processes and being very careful about cleaning their seats. I actually gave a talk in a university for three hours and wearing a mask,

I had to wear a mask while giving a talk for three hours because nobody is allowed to take off their mask within this lecture theater. So they still had a mask mandate in place. And when we went over to America in December, even five-year-olds were wearing masks in museums and playgrounds. But as soon as you enter the UK, we see the attitude shift. So there is this kind of sense of general kind of disapproval around these behaviours of precautions around physical or social distancing. There's more scepticism in the media and on social media. There's more backlash against people who are still adopting it.

And there's a more or less a culture of that. If we take precautions, we're looking after others who are immunocompromised as well. We've got some fascinating messages here, almost about the psychology of this. One which says, I'm 73. At first, I wasn't worried at all about COVID. Then the horror story started to get through to me. Maybe I wasn't invincible. For more than two years,

I didn't travel by train, bus or taxi. I don't drive. I had my three vaccinations, but didn't feel any safer. The crunch came in June this year when I was required, and I mean required, to travel abroad for the christening of my first grandchild. I didn't think I could do it. I tried to back out more than once but I did it and since then my Covid anxiety has vanished.

I will take my booster vaccination but my inner invincibility has returned from Julia and I suppose with your expertise on on behaviour Praguar how how important is that for people to try and get a sense of themselves back? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, generally, people often exhibit an optimism bias. So we have this bias that the belief that bad things are less likely to fall on us than on others. So and it's a very useful thing to to harness in the current times when we are all facing so much anxiety and around these negative emotions, because emotions drive risk perception as well. So if we underestimate the likelihood of contracting a disease, we are more likely to ignore any kind of public health warnings have to balance this optimism bias and not induce any excess feeling of anxiety and dread, but also give the correct information and the real data and facts around so that people can make a balanced judgment about how much they need to protect themselves and what they have to do, the exact steps to protect others as well. Professor Pragya Agarwal, thank you to you. Let me come just to you, Azra, on this idea of a couple of other points that have been raised. Gina in Leeds says, it annoys me that so many previously held services and face-to-face activities

are still not up and running with COVID as the excuse. Isolation and loneliness are now the killers and the harms, not COVID. What would you say to that? I think that's a good point. We have to balance our risks generally across all aspects of life. COVID has really dominated the headlines for many years now, but we do have to get back to some sense of normality. Bearing in mind that this is a virus that's going to stay around now.

It's not going to disappear. And we have to balance how we approach our protection against that, against other activities. And I definitely wanted to include this as well and put this to you. Like hundreds of thousands of people, mostly women, I'm still suffering with long COVID. I feel left behind as the rest of the world moves on and as time passes and COVID drifts into the past,

so many of us remain stuck with debilitating symptoms. It's a hidden pandemic. What do you want to say to that, Azra? No, absolutely it is. I mean, it's terrible the state that we've seen with long COVID. We know that somewhere between 5% and 10% of infections have actually resulted in long COVID and it is much higher incidence amongst women. I think we're still, from a scientific perspective, at a very early stage in terms of learning about this syndrome.

It's complex. There's no single set of clear definitions. But of course, the medical community is very much focused on trying to improve those people's lives and seek appropriate treatments. Well, it couldn't come soon enough, according to those we do hear from a lot of people in that situation. And as you say, mainly women. And as our correspondent, our listener was saying, just one more on this, Azra, to you as an epidemiologist. How is data on Covid reliable when the government has made it almost impossible now to report it? I had COVID this summer. I could only register my positive result using my last NHS lateral flow test. I've had several messages like this. Other friends and family have tested positive using lateral flow tests.

They've had to buy themselves, but no way to report it. For an accurate view of how prevalent COVID is, we need ways to report it. Is there a problem there with what we actually know to be the numbers? Well, actually, in the UK, we're actually probably leading the world in terms of getting those numbers because the Office for National Statistics is taking a random household-based survey frequently. So we do have a good assessment of the prevalence of infection in the community. And then we can couple that, of course, with hospital admissions and severe outcomes to look at the picture as a whole. I don't think there are any other countries that have that type of population-wide nationally representative surveys.

So we're in a better position than most. Well, that's nice to end on, not optimism bias, but some better news perhaps about our data collecting and how we're in a better position than most. Well that's nice to end on not optimism bias but some better news perhaps about our data collecting and how we're doing it. Professor of Epidemiology Azra Ghani, thank you to you. Another message here, I'm still trying to wear my mask in the shops and on buses and trains but I do worry that someone might approach me about it and tell me not to. Well hopefully we're in a period of tolerance and as we were just hearing it's about personal choice so do keep those messages coming about how you're handling where we're up to with this. As we hear from the US president and others that the pandemic is over. That's certainly what he was saying this week, Joe Biden, in the US, despite how the figures look there. And fascinating to get your take on this and to hear about the actual data and how we collect it. But turning our minds to another leader of a country that we're hearing a lot from and with the right reason, but also very tragic reasons at the same time. Yesterday, the Ukrainian

President Vladimir Zelensky told the UN General Assembly that Russia had sparked a catastrophic turbulence with the world with its illegal war. On the same day, the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, announced military reservists are to be sent to Ukraine to reinforce his troops after major combat setbacks this month and that he would use all available means to protect Russian territory, implying this could involve nuclear weapons. Russian police are reported to have arrested hundreds of protesters rallying against the Kremlin's decision and flights out of Russia sold out fast after Putin's announcement. As the

conflict escalates, the Ukrainian culture minister, going back to his words from the summer, has said that culture can be the soft power that heals wounds. But how true is that? One woman who will have a view on this is the concert pianist and member of something called the Ukrainian Freedom Orchestra, Anna Fedorova. Anna, good morning. Good morning. Thank you for being with us. And listeners and viewers of the BBC can learn more about the Freedom Orchestra this weekend when a documentary goes out.

I'll give the details at the end of our discussion. But this has now been going on, the war in Ukraine has been going on since February. It's almost hard to believe that this is the kind of new norm that's continued. And I wonder, for you, just taking your mind back there, how you felt when this began? Well, of course, since February, all our lives are turned upside down. And the very first days when the war started, I was in Amsterdam, thankfully, together with my parents, who in general lived in Kiev until then. But just a week before the war started, I managed to get them out of the country and they were with me but we were absolutely paralyzed just looking in disbelief and complete horror in what is happening in our country and also in our city and after a few days

from this paralyzed state I went into a very active state because I wanted to do something because as an artist as musician there are things that are possible to be done and i started together with some other musicians organized the benefit concerts for ukraine and the first one which we did was in the concert gibao in amsterdam which was sold out in about one day a matter of hours raised over 100 000 euros and brought together a lot of solid people in the netherlands and across the world because this concert was also broadcasted and i know that even some people in ukraine while they were bombed and sitting in the bomb shelters or basements they actually were watching the live broadcast from this concert and it brought a lot of comfort to them and support and hope

and, of course, also a lot of tears and very strong emotions. I can only imagine how strong those emotions are and have continued to be. And this particular orchestra, the Ukrainian Freedom Orchestra, is made up of 75 Ukrainian musicians. You've come together, but all had to flee the war. Yes, yes and no. So this project started, I think, also in March and was initiated by Metropolitan Opera director Peter Galp and his wife, Caroline Wilson, who was the conductor of the orchestra. And she's actually half Ukrainian. She has Ukrainian origins.

And she had this idea to create an orchestra from Ukrainian refugees or in general Ukrainian musicians and make a tour, the concert tour with these Ukrainian musicians. And I was invited to be a soloist at the performances. We had 13 performances all over Europe and the United States with this project. And that's incredible how they were able to organize this tour in just two and a half months, because usually the tour of such scale is organised over three years or so. And you as a concert pianist playing in these conditions with the stories that were surrounding you, I understand two sisters, for instance, from the orchestra had a father fighting on the front line.

How was it to play? It was amazing in many ways. It was very powerful. It was very emotional. We felt every concert that it's not just playing music, but it's basically what we are doing that something has to be done, the Ukrainian people have to be supported, that Ukrainian culture and Ukrainian artists are, they were all on stage playing incredibly beautiful with so much soul and feeling that one cannot imagine. Every concert there were tears from all sides, from the side of the audience, from the musicians which were backstage,

musicians in the orchestra. And yes, I was very privileged to be part of this because this was bigger than probably anything I ever was participating in. I mean, you're hugely experienced and many millions of people have watched you and your clips of you are on the internet and various pieces that you have played. But in this BBC documentary about this orchestra

being aired this weekend, we see Kerry Lynn Wilson, the Canadian conductor, who decided, as she puts it, to fight with her baton, talking about the Ukrainian composer, Valentin Silvestrov, the Seventh Symphony. Just before we hear that clip and what she had to say, can you tell us a bit about Silvestrov?

Yes, Silvestrov is probably the most prominent living composer from Ukraine. He's now in his 80s. And he was in Ukraine when the war started. And during the first months he was taken from Ukraine. Some Ukrainian musicians abroad organized his evacuation basically. Now he is in Berlin. My father actually knows him and he worked together with him. He recorded some of his music on Ukrainian radio and just now he recorded the CD of his music together with violinist Daniel Roland in the Netherlands. The music of Sylvester is very very beautiful, serene and somehow you feel as you get the connection with some

alternate reality through his music i love for example myself to play the piece called messenger on the piano which he composed after the death of his wife and the same actually was the seventh symphony he composed it shortly after his wife died he dedicated it to his wife and the last effect which he used in the end of the symphony the breathing of the brass section this is the allegory with the last breath of life yes and and well this is what car what Carrie Lynn has to say about that. Well, there's a beautiful story behind this symphony is that he dedicated it to his wife. Ultimately, it is about her spirit.

It's about her dying breath. But for me, it represents soul and life. And this is symbolic why I chose the symphony because it was dedicated to her but we can dedicate this as a symbol of the soldiers and all of the victims who are dying and who have died in Ukraine so this is a very profound and spiritual work for us it's, that's why this is such a great piece

we can perform because audiences will understand the emotion. She's talking there about the brass section blowing air through their instruments

but no note coming out and connecting with that emotion. If I come back to the words of the Ukrainian culture minister, that culture can be the soft power that heals wounds. Do you think and do you believe in that as a performer, as a Ukrainian performer? Yes, I do. And I think that now actually

the purpose of music in this healing, in giving hope and giving support to people that's actually what the music is about and now they can feel this purpose of music stronger than ever and at every concert i also see a lot of ukrainian people in the audience and I see that music does give them power, it does give them hope, it does give them light and I'm really happy if it is possible with music to comfort in some way some people and of course for many of them they're so traumatized because of what they lived through when they were in Ukraine and what they're living through still. And I hope that music can, if not save lives in the literal sense, but at least to be able to resurrect the will to live and to continue to go on and to support the spirit. Today you're talking to us from South Korea, I understand,

where you're taking part in a concert in the demilitarized zone between North and South Korea. You're there to perform Rachmaninoff's second piano concerto. In fact, your performance of that piece from 2013 has been watched over 36 million times on YouTube. Let's just hear an excerpt of you of that. And I know your new album has performances of that concerto and Rachmaninoff's Fourth. Obviously, the war in Ukraine is creating a lot of anti-Russian sentiment the world over.

Why is it important to you to continue to play the work of Russian composers like Rachmaninoff and also bring that complexity of against, if you like, everything, a blanket black and white view of what is russian yes well uh the thing is that a lot of russian composers uh such as rachmaninov shestakovich tchaikovsky they were also all victims of russian government of what was of russian society what was happening in the country at that time and for example Rachmaninoff he had to flee

Russia in 1917 when the revolution happened because it was impossible and dangerous to stay in this new world which was created by the revolution together with his family so he had to flee and he lived the rest of his life in exile

without the possibility to go back to his homeland. Shostakovich, he lived in Russia, but he was fighting and speaking out through his music. Basically, everything he was writing was expressing his frustration, his fear, his anxiety, and that was the way of his to fight against the regime at that time. And I think that in general,

the music and the artists and the poets, very often they were speaking and writing for peace against all the violence, against aggression. And it's important to remember that. And Rachmaninoff, for example, himself, he was a fantastic human being. He was a human being from a big letter H. Also, Anna, if I may say, as I mentioned in my introduction,

Russian police are reported to have arrested hundreds of protesters, if not more, rallying against the Kremlin's decision and the latest announcements from Putin only yesterday and in the last 24 hours or so. So it is a much more complex picture and music is a way of getting to that as well as other ways.

Anna Fedorova, have a very good performance. And thank you very much for talking to us today, especially about Ukraine's musical Freedom Fighters, a documentary of which airs on the BBC, on BBC Two and iPlayer this weekend on Saturday at 7.35 in the evening. So you can hear and see more about the particular group of musicians brought together. Now, coming back to the UK, a new study by the charity Gamble Aware shows that the cost of living crisis could trigger an increase in women gambling. A survey of more than 1600 women shows that one in four women aged 18 to 49 who gamble expect to gamble more in the coming months, with 12 percent of those surveyed already having turned to gambling to try and supplement household income. Gamble Aware are starting a campaign to target women specifically and break the stigma that can prevent them from seeking support.

The chief executive Zoe Osman joins me now. Zoe, good morning. Good morning. What is new about what we know about women and gambling habits? Well, we're very concerned that the rise in the cost of living that's obviously increasing month by month alongside a growth in the number of women gambling online is sort of creating a perfect storm. And our research has showed that one in four women who gamble expect to gamble more to pay the household bills, and one in 10 are already turning to gambling to pay the bills. So that's obviously a stark warning sign, particularly as we sort of encroach upon the winter of what looks like to be discontent. And we need to make more women aware of the risks of gambling. And in terms of the

idea of paying bills and the cost of living being as part of a perfect storm, why are women, do you think, being lured towards this? Is there something about the way the gambling is now happening that's more appealing? Well, we know that women's gambling is sort of portrayed or presented to them as a sort of innocent, fun, playful activity, more of a game rather than gambling. And in fact, there's a common misconception amongst women that they're gambling and that that gambling is coming with risk. Secondly, we know that there's a huge amount of advertising targeted at women. Women are more exposed to more ads than men per week. And thirdly, because of this sort of move

to online where there's the accessibility of your sort of opportunity to gamble as a means of escape from daily life and also concerns and stress and anxiety of daily life let's just talk to joe who's on the line stay with me zoe who's uh she describes herself as gamble free for a year joe good morning good morning thanks for being with us how did it start for you well for me it i started gambling seven years ago. It was just a one-off bet on the football. I've never gambled before. to you just while we try and fix that if we can i'm not sure how we're doing that but zoe um just starting to hear how that journey began but if you are already perhaps on that on that road and all people to do with you are women to do with you are and we know you know of course the majority of gamblers are men but as you're talking about the increasing numbers of women what about the

the roads for help where can you go for help so What we're very keen to do is sort of break down the stigma. We know that about 49% of women are ashamed to talk about their gambling. So just as a first step to actually open up, have conversations with their friends, family, not to make it a hidden something that they do on the side or feel guilty about. And then in terms of where to go for help i mean a number of amazing resources then including going to our website begamblerware.org which will list them all plus tips and advice or call the national gambling helpline on 0808 8020 133 because they're available help 24 hours a day seven days a week and it's free Are we seeing a difference in the motivation then? I mentioned about making ends meet, bills.

Is that not the same as men? Well, women have much more in the traditional construct a sort of a sense of duty and responsibility in terms of managing the household bills, not across the board, but for the large majority, coupled with the fact that, you know, a lot of them are balancing sort of both domestic caring responsibilities as a mother, a parent and also working lives.

So they have quite a lot that they've got to juggle. And often for them, gambling is a means of escape, which of itself is not an issue. It's more the concerns than making sure that they're aware that it's a risky activity. activity and they need to look out for those warning signs which are essentially sort of losing track of time spending too much money or at the very worst stage keep it hidden from others hence they need to be a bit more open about it i'm hoping i can go back to joe thank you for that joe hello hello i think i'm back now you are that's so much clearer thank you very much no no please don't you apologize um you were telling us how you started gambling. So basically, it was seven years ago. I put a one-off bet on the football.

I've never done that before. It won my bet. And I thought, oh, it made me feel really good. I thought I was quite good at it. So I looked around on the site and I found the slot machines. And once I started playing those, that's when it really pulled me in. I was hooked on them. I quickly started losing money and then I was chasing it because I couldn't accept the fact that I hadn't won. I got myself into so much debt.

I isolated myself from friends and family. The guilt I felt was awful. I hated myself. Do you know how much debt you got into? I think I got into, it was over 50 grand. Right. So a serious amount. Yeah, a pretty huge amount, yeah

And then I got so bad I did feel suicidal And then I didn't really know at the time who to turn to Because I didn't know that gambling could be an addiction So what I did is I started looking online And I come across um Gordon Moody um and they it uh took me on to their um rehabilitation retreat program which was for women this one um and got me back you know on the road to recovery and because of all the stress from the gambling my hair started to fall out so I had to shave that off I actually had alopecia caused from stress and so that triggered

me back into gambling and before I knew it I was full-blown gambling again getting myself into more debt then I had to contact Gordon Moody again and luckily they took me back onto their program and I've now you know I'm gamble free for one year so I'm pretty happy about that. I mean it sounds incredibly difficult to to be able to stay gamble free how do you think you've done it I think for me is talking talking about how I'm feeling I've put I've got safety nets in place to so if I do feel like I want to gamble I can't I you know I've blocked like gambling transactions from from my bank and you know I've registered with Gamstop so yeah you have you know once now I'm aware of what triggers me it's easier for me to manage. How have your family been about this?

I've been one of the lucky ones, to be honest. My family have been very supportive, which is obviously very helpful. I mean, I had to give my mum full control of my finances at one point. I didn't even have my bank card. I had to ask for money. What has happened with the debt? Well, I'm pleased to say I've paid off all my debt now

with the help of my family, not as in paying it for me, but helping me manage my money. Okay, because I mean, that's the other side of this, getting away from gambling, but then what you do with what you've created while you've been doing it. And the shame associated with that, you know, a lot of women in this study talking about the shame that stops them then from getting help. In the beginning, I didn't want to tell anybody. I hated myself. But this is one of the reasons that this campaign is amazing. We want to show people that you don't need to be ashamed.

And reaching out for help is the best thing that you can do. Do you think the games should be how they are, the way that they're now made very social people can chat there's a there's a lot more around this and it's it's said that some of the women certainly who've been drawn more to gambling like it because it's on their phones and it has a social element. I mean I'm not against gambling at all I mean there are many people that can gamble responsibly. I'm just not one of them. Thank you for talking to us today. Not easy to do so, not easy to have been on the road you've been on, but I'm grateful to hear your story. Jo, who's been gamble-free for a year. We will

put links on our website to all those support systems that we've talked about and that you were hearing about from the chief executive of Gambler Weather, Zoe Osmond, who's describing as we go into the winter with the cost of living crisis as a perfect storm for women. And that's why those figures have been released today. Now to Japan, where new statistics from a government agency show that both women and men under the age of 35 are rejecting the idea of marriage.

The figures were released from the National Institute of Population and Social Security that shows 17.3% of men and 14.6% of women say they have no intention of getting married. Well, what is driving this rejection and how will the long-term impact play out? Dr. Jennifer Coates is Senior Lecturer in Japanese Studies at the University of Sheffield. And Emily Itami is the author of Fault Lines. She grew up in Tokyo and now lives in London. Welcome to you both. Jennifer, I'll start with you.

Good morning. Good morning. What do you see as the reason for the rejection of marriage with men and women under the age of 35? I mean, I think as in many parts of the world, there's a complex set of reasons. And as we see here in the UK, increasing sort of precarious living conditions and economic concerns are quite major there. But I think we should probably also note that this is kind of the continuation of a trend that we've seen in Japan since 1987. So interest in marriage is definitely decreasing in Japan, but that's been kind of a steady trajectory for quite some time now.

So in some ways, not so much surprising in this news, although obviously not good news from the Japanese government's perspective. Because of the population? That is a major concern. It's still very uncommon to have children outside of marriage in Japan. So a lower number of people expressing an intention to get married will eventually mean a lower number of new people being born. Emily, good morning to you. Thank you for joining us. Your novel, Fault Lines, tells the story of a housewife who seemingly has everything.

She is married, hardworking husband, two children, a lovely apartment. But she often contemplates throwing herself off the balcony rather than spending another evening hanging laundry or being ignored by her husband. Did you put this together because it's a warning sign to younger women or why did you want to write it like this? I feel like a kind of situation where you find yourself in a marriage that is not going the reasons that are to do with, you know, very long working hours, the extremely high standards that you're expected to adhere to, whatever role you're performing, does kind of make it a supercharged situation. So it was an interesting place to write about that situation. And actually, the idea of women not working but wanting to work while they do have children is also the reality. Yeah, I think it's very very difficult um because the working hours are so insane um there's no flexibility you know if the man is um is working then there he's not really able to help out um at

all and I think that if you're in a partnership then it kind of needs both people to be involved both at home and at work to make it work so it's really hard for a woman to go back to work there isn't um really the possibility not that much possibility for um part-time work um and i think as well because of the kind of hierarchical structures that you traditionally have in japanese companies uh there isn't that many that not that much as much opportunity as there might be elsewhere for women to rise up in companies. Also, isn't this the idea that there's maternity discrimination? If you've said you're pregnant, then your colleagues can also behave

badly towards you. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's been a major thing. There's matahara, is maternity harassment, and there's been quite a lot of talk about that recently with lawsuits being brought against companies for the way that women have been treated.

So, I mean, we're familiar with discrimination perhaps from bosses, but this is the idea that your colleagues know you're going off and are very difficult with you before you go because they don't think you're going to be pulling your weight. Exactly. And the idea that you would cause inconvenience to anyone in Japan is kind of the worst possible thing that you could do socially, which is the reason that people don't take very much holiday and things that are available like paternity leave don't get taken.

So I think that, yeah, that's a big problem, as you said, not just coming from bosses, but coming from society in general. Jennifer, coming back to you as someone who looks at this and looks at Japanese studies, is this a problem? I know you talked about it from the government's point of view, but maybe the life that we're just hearing about from Emily there, maybe it just isn't appealing to men and women and maybe them doing whatever they want to do. If the society can't provide the opportunities for women, if they do choose to go down this route, if they can't make life more appealing than their parents have had it, then is it necessarily a problem for the individuals? I think that's a really good point. And I think a lot of those issues that Emily raised are really coming out in these survey responses as well. So one of the things that's

kind of an interesting development in this 2021 survey is that for the first time, we're actually seeing male survey respondents increasing the importance that they're placing on the woman's economic contribution to the family. So this is kind of maybe the first time that we're seeing male survey respondents saying that it is important to them to be in a partnership with a woman who is also kind of earning and also working. And at the same time, from the female side, we see a number of female survey respondents really emphasising the importance of men contributing to housework and child rearing. So in some ways, I think that's kind of good news from a gender equality perspective at the family level. But as Emily points out,

how the workplace is going to square that circle, I think is really challenging. The other thing that's a really interesting observation here from the side of the individual is that of the people who have never married and express an intention not to marry, in the language of the original survey, they're actually not rejecting marriage. What they're rejecting is companionship or relationship. So I think that's really interesting as well. It's not just the institution of marriage and the social pressures that go with that, that survey respondents are sort of rejecting or pushing back against. They're

actually using this term, you know, for relationship or companionship or dating that suggests that they're not actually interested in sort of sharing their their lives at all really which I think is quite an interesting development. Emily what do you make of that? My initial reaction is just oh my gosh that sounds really terrible but I suppose yeah I mean I have often thought about it I think that it seems to me that because perhaps it's because it's a society where there are so many rules about the ways that you interact. And I guess if, you know, to interact with anyone is always to be afraid, you know, to have to make yourself vulnerable to some degree. Right. And I guess if there are loads of rules, so you could be breaking any any any one of them at any time it does make it kind of maybe more understandable that the way to avoid breaking them would be to back away from any kind

of engagement at all but but also not necessarily positive i mean there's there's ways of looking at this positively people doing what they want and not wanting to replicate their families but then that could be a very sad side effect of this being on your right yeah it's all wasn't it and i mean yeah all the things about solo solo weddings and stuff and um people marrying anime characters and things is a phenomenon there as well right so have you been to any solo weddings or people marrying anime characters i haven't personally been to any okay we just want to make sure we're getting the gamut of experience here i know you went back to japan for a few years when your own children

were very young what was that experience like having lived and grown up in the UK? I suppose it made me realise because, yeah, having been a child in Japan, I think to be a child there is a wonderful environment. It's really it's very safe. You have a lot of independence. You feel very kind of loved and looked after. But as an adult, you see the cost of that in a way, that how much, how intensively parents or mothers specifically are expected to be involved in the lives of their children and how hard it can be. Well, thank you very much for talking to us, Emily Itami.

The novel's called Fault Lines and some insights there about how Japanese society is changing. And Dr. Jennifer Coates, how do you think this is going to end up? How do you think this is going to go? You say it's a long-term trend, but these numbers do give a lot of colour to that. It's a real worry for population. It's a real worry for ageing and aged care as well, from the perspective of people ageing alone,

living in single-person households when they become older and more infirm, much more vulnerable, as Emily mentioned. And really, the Liberal Democratic Party, which has been in power in Japan almost continuously since 1955, tends to be quite an anti-immigration party. So we're not seeing that sort of population decline being counteracted through bringing more people to work in Japan from other parts of the world. So again, I think those are two real kind of impossible conditions to maintain. But it doesn't really seem like any of the initiatives that the government has been trialling over the past kind of 10, 15 years are really having any traction on people's desire to start a family. And even to live with others, as you were saying, which is, again, a rather sad element

of this. Dr. Jennifer Coates, Senior Lecturer in Japanese Studies at the University of Sheffield. Thank you. We started the programme bringing your attention to what is going on in Iran and these extraordinary scenes of women burning their headscarves, cutting their hair in protest, all sparked by the death of a 22-year-old woman, Masa Amini. She died days after being arrested by morality police

for allegedly not complying with strict rules on head coverings. And these are really, as we were hearing from our correspondent, extraordinary scenes because of how far and wide this is happening across the country and continuing. Half of my family reads this message from one of our listeners are Iranian. I was born and I live in the UK, but I genuinely fear for the safety of my cousin and her daughters, who are very vocal

on women's rights in Iran. They regularly post on social media against the regime and its practices, which I in turn share to my social media. But we were hearing as well, of course, about the internet effectively being turned off across many of those sites. But thank you very much for messaging in and for all of your messages today and for your company as always. That's all for today's Woman's Hour. Thank you so much for your time. Join us again for the next one. I'm Sarah Treleaven and for over a year I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who's faking pregnancies. I started, like, warning everybody.

Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby.

It's a long story. Settle in. Available now.