Woman's Hour - Baby banks, Mercury prize nominee Georgia, Pat Hume, Author Luan Goldie

Episode Date: August 5, 2020

The Duchess of Cambridge has spearheaded a campaign to persuade retailers to donate items to baby banks around the UK. New figures from the three big charities – Baby Basics, Little Village and AberNecessities have published figures which show the number of families with children under five who’ve needed their help has risen significantly since the coronavirus crisis began. How are they managing to cope? We hear from Lauren Elrick who has a fifteen month old daughter and uses Abernecessities in Aberdeenshire. Sophia Parker, chief executive of Little Village Baby bank in London and Tracy Thorn, an NHS Family Nurse. For the first time in its 29-year history, female artists and female-fronted bands have outnumbered men on the shortlist for the Mercury Prize. Alongside Dua Lipa and Laura Marling, Georgia has been nominated for her second album ‘Seeking Thrills’. She joins Jenni to discuss her music, the transcendental power of the dancefloor, and being nominated for the Mercury Prize, 25 years after her father. This morning the funeral of John Hume, the Northern Irish politician and Nobel Prize winner will be held. He’s survived by his wife and professional partner, Pat. Who is the woman for whom the The John and Pat Hume Foundation for Peaceful Change and Reconciliation was formed? We hear from Eimear O'Callaghan, former BBC News Editor, and Monica McWilliams, Emeritus Professor at Ulster University. Luan Goldie has written a new novel called Homecoming. Set in London and Kenya over a period of twenty years, it is a story about love, family and friendship. Luan is a primary school teacher and her last book, Nightingale Point, was longlisted for the Women’s Prize for Fiction 2020 and she won the Costa Short Story Award in 2017.Presenter: Jenni Murray Producer: Dianne McGregor

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme. Peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, Jenny Murray welcoming you to the Woman's Hour podcast for Wednesday the 5th of August. Good morning. This morning the funeral of John Hume, the Northern Irish politician and a Nobel Prize winner, will be held in Londonderry. He's survived by his wife and professional partner, Pat, who is the woman for whom the John and Pat Hume Foundation for Peaceful Change and Reconciliation was formed. As female artists outnumber men on the shortlist for the Mercury Prize for the first time, Georgia, who's been nominated for her album Seeking Thrills, and a novel which spans more than 20 years and is set in London and Kenya. Homecoming is by Luan Goldie.

As you may have seen in today's papers, the Duchess of Cambridge spent yesterday unloading boxes of baby clothes in Sheffield for a Baby Banks charity, in which retailers donate items of clothing, nappies, formula and equipment across the UK. New figures from the three big charities, Baby Basics, Little Village and Aber Necessities, have published figures this week which show the number of families with children under five who've needed their help has risen significantly since the coronavirus crisis began. Well, how are they managing to cope? Lauren Elric has a 15-month-old daughter

and uses ABBA necessities in Aberdeenshire. Sophia Parker is Chief Executive of Little Village Baby Bank in London and Tracey Thorne is an NHS family nurse also in Aberdeen. Tracey, why have so many more people needed to be referred to a baby bank? Hello, I think there's many varied reasons as to why families are needing baby banks more than ever during the pandemic.

Every family's story is completely different but it's a combination of families such as Lauren's where additional hours that were relied upon are no longer available. There's families where they were on a temporary contract that suddenly ended. There is possibly a delay in accessing universal credit. So I've got a family just now who were self-employed, had been self-employed for less than a year. So unfortunately for them, they had to access universal credit. And to actually get that funds in place, there was a delay, which meant they had no money for a period of weeks. So I think there's there's lots of different reasons every family story is unique but no family

that i have on my caseload has not been affected by covid19 on a financial and basis lauren how would you describe the impact the lockdown has had on you? The impact, it's made me feel very isolated. Also with my partner not getting as much hours as work, we have struggled to afford essential items for our daughter, like nappies. And that's where Aber Necessities stepped in and really helped us. How much are you in the country? And so it's not easy to find places, even if you could afford it, to buy things. Yeah, we don't have any big supermarkets in the small village that we stay in, there is a little corner shop

and even their prices are quite a bit more expensive than what they would be in the supermarkets. So we only have a limited amount of items in the shop as well to be able to buy. And even the shop here, we're struggling to keep its stock up. You know, even simple things, nappies and that, was very, very difficult to get hold of. Savaya, how difficult have you found having enough things

to fulfil the need in your area? Hi, good morning. So at Little Village, we support families across the whole of London, and much of what Lauren was saying is really echoed by the families that we've been meeting as well. I think at the beginning of the lockdown, it was very, very difficult for people to find those basic essentials, things like nappies, and where they were unable to go to the supermarkets, they were then going and buying nappies for us via our wholesaler. But there's no question that the level of demand that we're now facing, the number of requests for support, is making it very challenging to continue to meet those requests. Now, the Duchess of Fire has persuaded, I think it's 19 retailers,

to donate 10,000 new items to more than 40 baby banks around the country. How important will those donations be? That's right. We feel so lucky at Little Village to be part of this campaign, along with Baby Basics and Abba Necessities. basics and other necessities and it's just brilliant to see the Duchess of Cambridge using her position in this way to bring all those lovely British brands on board to support our baby banks across the UK and there's no question in my mind that the things that those those brands are going to be providing to families via us will be a huge lifeline and they will help financially but also to reduce the anxiety and

stress that the parents we're supporting are experiencing but I think we need to be really clear that while they are a lifeline what they aren't going to do is reduce the soaring inequality we're seeing in this country and I think we also need to be looking at that issue as well. But what range of goods are coming to you as a result of this push? Oh, I mean, it's wonderful. Some really, really beautiful, beautiful things. So lots of toiletries for babies and for mums, play equipment, weaning equipment, all the essentials, which I think what's going to be really lovely in being able to give them out is that they really will feel like a gift from one family to another, which is very much what we stand for at Little Village. And I know it's something that ABBA Necessities and Baby Basics

and indeed all the other baby banks we work with think is very important that the items we give out are great quality and they don't feel like a handout at all. Lauren how did Aber Necessities help you? How did it work practically? They were absolutely brilliant and what had happened was I spoke to Tracy my family nurse and then she referred me to Aber Necessities and I received items like clothes nappies formula milk and not just that but also for my daughter's birthday and I received gifts for her and I wasn't able to afford Christmas as well we got some gifts then for my daughter, but also things for myself, toilet trays and just things to make me feel quite nice as well. So there was quite a big range of things that I was given. to find people who might need your help and need to be referred to a baby bank when you can't really

meet them face to face no unfortunately that's correct we can't meet most of our families face to face we are still having some face-to-face interactions with families such as families that have got child protection or there's concerns about mental health or newborn babies um but the way my role works, we've built quite a therapeutic relationship with my families. I've got a caseload of 25 and we have a very good working relationship with each other. So we're keeping in contact with our families

through video conference calls. So we're still keeping connected and having those conversations. So for the role that I'm doing, it's actually not been too affected. I'm still being able to have that connection, and families have been able to report to me that they are struggling. But how often are people having problems with technology? I mean, if you're living in a very rural community

and you haven't got much money, you might not have the computer the wi-fi all of those things that that most people are taking for granted absolutely and that's been an enormous challenge especially and with a lot of young families and that's been very difficult and we have come across those problems unfortunately and when that does occur sometimes we're doing just like garden doorstep visits so we can just connect with family have those conversations but at social distance um or we just go back down to basics and we have those telephone conversations so although we can't actually see the family and we're still keeping connected by at least a phone call

how are you managing in that area Sophia in London How has it affected the way you can help families and getting contact with them? Yeah, I mean, so we had a very intense period at the beginning of lockdown back in March where we had to basically completely redesign our operations. Normally families are welcomed into our hubs and able to choose the items that they want and need for their children. We now operate a delivery service where we get that stuff out to the families that need it safely and securely directly to their doorsteps. And we have an amazing team of volunteers who are between them calling around about 200 families a week. Like Tracy was was saying we've gone back to the good old-fashioned phone um and just checking in with families and certainly what we

are seeing is that as well as the kind of financial stresses and the lockdown broad um i think we're seeing families that were already quite um isolated and um anxious we're seeing that many of the places they went to for support be that you know the play groups and the other local charity drop-in sessions little village um those things have had to close down and so that's leaving them even more isolated and when you're in a damp and cramped room um often without much outside space that can be a very challenging place to be. Lauren, obviously the things that you've had to help you have been wonderful. But how important has Tracey's personal support been to you? Tracey has helped me so much, also emotionally.

It's so nice to feel like I have someone there to help me through anything, any questions I have or, you know, someone just to speak to. She's not a judgmental person at all. She's so kind and friendly and I really, really do appreciate everything that Tracey does for me. Sophia, this is not coming to an end quickly, this difficult period. How do you reckon you'll get through the next few months?

Well, we've always said at Little Village that our currency is kindness. I think we'll be getting through with the support of our local communities, with the support of the brands like the Duchess has brought together, with the incredible dedication of our local communities, with the support of the brands like the Duchess has brought together, with the incredible dedication of our volunteers. But I'm very clear that this is not going to be easy.

When we first started looking at the impact of COVID, we were thinking it was going to be a kind of sharp spike for three months and then it might normalise. But actually, we're now planning for a sustained increase in demand. We're on track to meet 6,000 kids this year and support them. It was 3,000 in 2019. And I know many other baby banks

are in a similar situation. So it's a case of continuing to fundraise, continuing to keep that support coming, asking people to continue donating essential items to us so we can get them out to the families that need them most. And we'll just keep going. And just briefly, Sophia, if there's someone listening who feels that she or he might need some help, how do they get the referral? So they can go. Most baby banks operate a referral system.

So you would need to be referred by a professional. But that's not a complicated process. So you can go to a health visitor, a teacher, a counsellor, anyone in a professional role and ask them to refer you to your nearest baby bank. We have a map on our website of all the baby banks across the UK. So you can find your nearest one on that map on our website. Sophia Parker, Lauren Elric and Tracey Thorne, thank you all very much indeed for being with us. Now for the first time in its 29 year history, female musicians, singers and bands fronted by women have outnumbered men on the short list for the Mercury Prize. Alongside Dua Lipa and Laura Marling, Georgia has been nominated for her

second album, Seeking Thrills. Here's just a selection of tracks. Georgia, congratulations on your nomination. Now, this has come 25 years after your father was nominated. He was one half of the duo left field. What does it mean to you to be nominated? Hi, Jennyny thank you for having me on the show um well it's it's incredibly special um i remember well i remember when my mom and dad went to the awards ceremony um a bit more rock and roll back in those days i think

um and i remember my dad coming back with this award. They didn't win it. I think they lost to Portishead. But I remember them bringing back this award and it was a very odd-looking thing and I remember being quite sort of intrigued by it. And it's kind of lived with us through my whole career, really. And so it means a great deal, I think.

Now, the album is described thus a daring story of hedonism self-discovery and the transcendental power of the dance floor how would you describe it I think that's very accurate um I wrote this album when I was kind of embarking on this sober point in my life. I've cut drinking and I cut all kind of sort of hedonistic behavior out a little bit. And I did really find myself in situations on the dance floor where I felt kind of transcendental moments. And I saw humanity at its best, really, on the dance floor where I felt kind of transcendental moments and I saw humanity at its best, really, on the dance floor. And I felt really inspired by that. And I just locked myself away in the studio

and wrote these collections of songs. And, yeah, I think that's a very accurate description, really. So what did you really discover about yourself on the dance floor I think I just I don't know I just had these moments of just like I I like being I like being observant of people I like seeing people come together. I love music. I think before going to dance floors were just like, you know, it was just like being with your mates, getting drunk and rah, rah, rah. I think this time I just truly appreciated the DJs and the music and how music can really just bring people together

and also kind of make you forget for a time about the struggles in your life and perhaps in those split moments you can kind of discover things that are new about yourself and um and I think it's just the power of music really I'm a bit of a music nerd Jenny really um so I like I you know I always i i remember we were at this one um rave in manchester and um my friends hearing this will love this but there was a moment where there's this pinnacle moment that it reaches on the dance floor where it's about two o'clock and then the djs will just drop a disco record and they drop vera me to the bridge and the whole atmosphere of the room just turned into this incredible like it was almost like a beating heart and me and my friends just

turned together and there's love you know there's love in the room and I think they were just really precious moments timeless moments I'll remember forever and I know you wrote and produced everything. You play the drums and you sing. How easy is it to combine all that? Well, I've never really thought about it. I've always just done it, you know. I learned the drums when I was very young. It was just something I could do. I just sat behind the kit and I just loved it.

And I think the way I learned the drums was I sang the rhythms and I sang the melodies of the songs I was learning. So I think by developing like that, I could just, you know, in the end sing and play the drums. So that's how I do my live show actually. But, you know, I'm very much, I just love instruments. I love the process of creating I'm very much a studio person as well as much as a performer I love being in the studio

I love equipment and I love you know just creating sound so I've got a big keyboards collection now um and I I just again I'm a bit of a nerd, really, I guess. But presumably that comes from growing up in a very musical family. Yes, for sure. I mean, I definitely, you know, when I was born, my mum and dad were living in a cooperative flat near Baker Street and they had to sort of kind of adapt to having this newborn baby. And my bedroom ended up being Leftfield Studio, where they wrote the first record.

So I think I was just kind of surrounded by weird equipment from a very early age. And I guess my kind of, yeah, just being intrigued by them developed from there. But my mum, she loves music. Music is a soundtrack to her life. I mean, she introduced me to artists like Joni Mitchell and kind of soul music and Neil Young, you know.

So I have. I have grown up in a very musical household. But then my dad would play like techno records and I'd hear like African music. And yeah, so it has been a mixture of a upbringing. You see that's interesting because I know you went to the Brit school but you also studied ethnomusicology at the School of Oriental and African Studies how does that influence the music that you're making now well I think the whole kind of academic process um really kind of helps me I I really did research this new record Seeking Thrills I um almost like I was researching a paper really I I delved into the history of dance music I went right back to the kind of 80s of

where it all began in the late 70s and I I sort of implanted a bit of my knowledge of how culture affects music, how music affects culture. And that's what I learned in ethnomusicology. My particular area was West Africa. And then also I just loved Southeast Asian music like Balinese and Javanese. Gamelan was kind of like my thing. But I guess, you know, you analyze how, yeah, how music and culture kind of play intertwine with each other. And I guess that kind of thought process has just lived with me

throughout creating my music. And I've always tried to be authentic and respectful. I've never wanted to just you know tape um and I think yeah that definitely comes from a respect you learn from um those sorts of studies really and and and knowing that you know it doesn't just it doesn't just end with pop music you know music all around the world um is as important really. So I guess it just kind of opened my eyes to different things. And briefly, how are you coping with lockdown with your music? Well, you know, it was pretty heavy, really,

because I put Seeking Thrills out in January, hoping to kind of promote it for a year and a half. And then all the shows got pulled and obviously cancelled or postponed, but we still don't really know what's going to happen. So for about a month, I was really quite low and just like, oh no, this is terrible. But then I'm quite lucky in the fact that I have a home studio. And so I just, in the end, did do what I do best and just bury myself in music.

And I'm now writing new songs and collaborating and it feels better. But, you know, I can't complain when I put things into perspective. I have had, you know, the opportunity to create and keep my artistry going. And now you've got a nomination for the Mercury Prize. So the very best of luck with that, Georgia. Thank you very much indeed for joining us this morning. Thank you, Jenny. Thank you. Now still to come in today's programme, Homecoming,

a novel by Luanne Goldie set in London and Kenya during a period of more than 20 years. What damage can a secret love affair do? And the serial, the third episode of Bloody Ice Stetford. Now, earlier in the week, you may have missed the teenage girls who set up Kids Against Plastic and the first in a series about how we live with scars. If you missed the live programme, it's not difficult to find us.

You can download the BBC Sounds app and all you have to do is search for Woman's Hour and there we are. Now, it's often assumed that the widow of a famous man will, in her grief, stay out of the limelight, as she has probably done throughout their lives together. That is not the case for Pat Hume, whose husband John died earlier this week. His funeral will be held today. John Hume won the Nobel Prize for his role in the Northern Ireland peace process, but his wife had been at his side and an active partner through the tough times, during the troubles, during peace and his years of suffering with dementia. So who is Pat Hume? Well, I'm joined by Monica McWilliams, Emeritus Professor at Ulster University,

and Ima O'Callaghan, a former BBC News editor in Derry. Ima, you watched them as a reporter for a long time. How did they work together good morning jenny um they worked as a perfect partnership um they complemented each other pat was never the quiet wife in the background doing her duty she was john's equal intellectually politically and every other way um she's been described as his eyes and ears on the ground when he would have been away travelling internationally, doing what he was doing best.

And she was there in touch with the ordinary people, looking after the ordinary issues and keeping a feel for the place. And she was his advisor, confident, protector, supporter, everything that a partner could be. Monica, we know they had five children and had a very, very tough time, particularly during the 70s and 80s. What kind of toll did that really difficult period have on them?

Well, Pat was a survivor, as most of us had to become, and she was a teacher. And she had to become the breadwinner because the Assembly collapsed in 1974, the money, making sure they stayed safe and supporting him in every possible way. And when he got back into politics, she was running the constituency work for him, entertaining politicians in her home, making pots of stew, putting on the kettle, speaking to journalists, doing everything a politician does. But in those early days, they were tough. I remember Pat describing John coming home after one of the first civil rights marches, the 5th of October, I think in 68, soaked to the skin. He had been standing trying to pacify things and knew they were getting out of hand. but it didn't help when he got covered from head to toe by a water cannon um as did most people who were there so that's the kind of life and

she had to protect her children and aid and her son because because the family the family home was was attacked a dangerous place wasn't it yes yes and john was taking risks personally for political reasons but it was her and the family at times alone when John was travelling as cards often do came to harass them and

Pat walked as Aidan told me across the border with five children into Donegal to get some respite from it all and to keep them safe so she knew about what security and safety meant and so did John in trying to create a more peaceful society. Now I think to a lot of people a turning point in the peace process was when John began talking to the Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams, I think that was in 1993. Let's just listen to Pat remembering that time.

A neighbour had seen Gerry Adams and knew that he had been with John. And the following day, it spread like wildfire that John Hume was speaking to Gerry Adams. And immediate demonisation began. He was vilified from one end of Ireland to the other end of Ireland for what he was doing. How did that feel at the time, being in the eye of that storm?

It was very, very, very difficult and very difficult for our children as well to read in the papers. They just were, I hadn't told any of them about John and these talks and they were completely at sea about the whole thing and found it difficult. There were party members and friends and colleagues who were also at a loss to understand why John was engaged in those talks. John had kept the talks very much to himself because I think his feeling was, if heads were to roll, let his head roll. Ema, how involved was she with the peace process as it went on and politicians like Bill Clinton, who came along. She was always there as a presence. I think what's significant about that interview that we just listened to, Pat was saying she didn't tell her children.

Nobody in the community at large knew what was going on between John Hume and Gerry Adams, but Pat was part of it. Pat was privy to that information, so she was sharing that burden with him. So she was very much part the other half of john um she mixed she mingled with presidents and prime ministers and diplomats she would have entertained people from the highest order at home in derry or at her home in donegal um but she was always totally at ease totally confident self-assured um never overawed by the occasions or by personalities you know she was a woman without pretension

and was happiest when she was among her own people, probably. But she could acquit herself in any company. A brave, feisty, intelligent, clever woman, you know, and a confident obviously of John's. You know, I think it's really important that the

foundation was the John and Pat Hume Foundation for Peaceful Change and Reconciliation, that both their names are there. And she also had a Lifetime Achievement Award in 2018. What did all that mean to her? I think at the time it was embarrassing for her. Pat, while she was always there by John's side, she didn't seek the limelight. She didn't want to be out front. So in November 2018, the Irish Red Cross announced they were going to honour her with a Lifetime Award for service to the community, basically. And it was the first time I think that I was ever conscious of Pat being up there on the stage. She went to

a gala dinner in Dublin and she was dressed for the occasion. She was in the limelight. The award was presented by the former STLP leader, Mark Durkan, and John wasn't able to go. He was too ill at that stage. And Mark Durkan paid great tributes to her, said she was lauded as a sense of heart and hope and a perpetual tonic during the troubles.

A true humanitarian ethic, you know, that's what she had. But Pat's reaction was that, first of all, she was shocked by the response. She was overwhelmed. She was humbled. And then in her acceptance of the award, what she said is that, I have gradually come to recognise that I am here to represent many people, people who have struggled to sustain fundamental human values amidst the brutal tragedy of social conflict and also of those who struggle with the smaller daily challenges of living alongside long-term illness. You know, she was an incredibly modest woman. How significant, Monica, was her openness about her husband's dementia? She spoke publicly when the book was published in 2015

on the Irish RTE channel. And it's very, very sad to listen to that, but also very powerful. It reflected Pat in every way I knew her. Warm, kind, honest, but realistic. And she talked about living with dementia and how people didn't understand dementia. And I used to sit beside John after he was ill

and I understood what she must have been going through and it was a long, long illness. What people forget is the toll that often public life can take on people like politicians like John who took risks. And Pat herself was obviously paying the price of that too at times because I remembered when he had to get surgery, emergency surgery. We were both travelling together at the time.

I was going to the States, he was going to Switzerland and he ended up with a serious operation in Zurich. So Pat was accustomed to having emergencies and dealing with crises and she was calm, always calm, that's how I remember, unclustered. When I said about the cup of tea, it's very powerful what can happen as we've just heard from Eimear, Underneath the radar, when you sit and enter a dialogue, a very important dialogue, someone described it as the Cobra Room in Derry, when those talks were taking place, and they were making such a difference. And it was her who was creating the calmness, pouring the oil in troubled waters,

as Breach Rogers described her. That's the woman I knew. And she was also a public speaker. She probably didn't seek limelight in any way, but some of the best speeches I ever heard came from Pat. She didn't make them often, but she stood up in Washington when she was appointed after the Good Friday Agreement,

along with Daphne Trimble, who was married to Dave Trimble. And they were appointed to monitor and see if they could fundraise for victims just after we had signed the agreement in 1998. And it was a very powerful speech. And anybody would have reached into their pockets after hearing Pat speak. Well, Monica McWilliams and Ema O'Callaghan, thank you both very much indeed for being with us today

and telling us about John Hume's wife, Pat. Well, now his widow, of course. Thank you both very much indeed. Now, in Luang Goldie's novel Homecoming, a young man, Kiyama, wants to go back to Kenya at the age of 18, ten years after the death of his mother there. He wants his mother's best friend Yvonne to come with him so that he can visit his grandparents and his old nanny.

The novel takes place in both London and Kenya and is set in the early 2000s, 2010 and 2020. Underneath the narrative is a secret. Kiyama's father, Lewis, had not been faithful to his mother, Emma, and in fact had long been in love with Yvonne as she was with him. It's complicated. Lauren, what drew you to write about London and Kenya? Morning. Well, I'm from London and my last novel was purely set in East London. So I knew I wanted

to set a novel in London again. I could see Kiyama and I could see the characters Emma and her friend Yvonne. They were in London. That's where they started, that's where they met each other at university in Harrow. But I knew there had to be this this huge trip to Kenya and it was just a case of matching the two stories up. What about your interest in what are clearly the complications of a friendship between two women? Where did that come from? Just life really. I mean the female friendship, it's quite romanticized when you think about it that you you know the idea you have this best friend and you share everything and it's this perfect relationship and you know I have really close female friends I've had in my life for

10-20 years but we do have those moments sometimes where we we hate each other and we drive each other mad so I wanted to have a realistic friendship between two women and your friendships they change as you change you know one of you has a baby one of you doesn't one of you's really successful in your career the other one isn't all these things have a huge impact on a relationship especially between two women who are as close as the two women are in this story. And what about your interest in the dangers of a long-held secret? Well, it's very interesting when you think about all the secrets that are lurking within families and friendships and some of them, you know, they might start off quite small. I think with the women in the story, one of them kept a secret from her friend

and she didn't even think of it as a secret it was just something small i don't need to tell emma what happened but over the years it got bigger and bigger and bigger and then it has this huge impact and it changes all these different people's lives so it's amazing when you think about it what a secret can do if it's if it's kept a secret for too long. Now, the London setting in the earlier novel you mentioned, Nightingale Point, is a council estate tower block. How important is it to you to write about the London that's really familiar only to people who live there? It's not tourist london no no i guess not but when i started writing night and girl point i didn't i didn't really think about that it was just that's where the book

was set those were the people it was only after when the book was published and people kept saying why did you choose this setting you know it's really unusual a council estate but is it i mean they're everywhere and so many people live on them so many people come from them i i didn't really think it was that unusual but maybe it's just unusual in the setting of a book how did you research it um well nightingale point is about it's based on a disaster that happened in holl the mid 90s. So I researched that event. But this is a this is a piece of fiction. Nightingale Point is obviously not a real place in East London.

So a lot of it was fiction, but it was based on this real event that happened. Now back to Kiyama, the poor, poor lad. He's raised by his father after his mother's death and his nana, Julie. Now, the way you portray her home, it's bustling. The characters speak to each other very truthfully. The dialogue is real. You're very good at that. how did you get it right that dialogue oh thank you um i don't know with the dialogue that's always what comes first for me when i'm writing i can hear the characters talking i feel like i just hear their conversation so i always start off with the dialogue it flows really easy it's all the other stuff that's a bit more difficult for me as a

writer but i could hear the conversations between kiyama and his father I could I could hear the noise from all the cousins in the garden in this busy sort of household the same way I could hear the conversations between Kiyama and his mum when he's younger when it's just the two of them in this house this is before he loses his mum um I don't know I can just hear it I've just got an ear for the the way people speak now in in 2017 you won the Costa Short Story Award for two steak bakes and two Chelsea buns what was the impact on your reputation as a writer of winning that well it was fantastic I I hadn't been published before I'd been a sort of runner-up in a few smaller competitions and then when I was shortlisted for the Costa it's just amazing

because it's such a such a big prize for an unpublished writer and you get to go this to this fabulous party and you know you get a lovely um amount of money even if you come in third place I was just really happy and then when I won it it was it was quite a shock the competition was really tight and then it sort of got the attention to my novel I had a novel that was finished I had an agent the novel was sort of floating around but it hadn't been picked up so winning the Costa Short Story Prize it it did so much for me it was amazing. Now I know when you're not writing you work as a primary school teacher which maybe takes up a lot of your time most of the time how does that influence the writing you know I'm not sure if it does influence my writing I'm primary so I teach

mostly year one and year two so the youngest children in the school um yeah it's more just sort of balancing it out i'm three days a week at school at the moment in normal times i am so um yeah it's just a case of balancing it all up the two things don't really complement each other i guess um it's a bit of a balancing act are you looking forward to going back properly i'm so yeah really really looking forward we're all looking forward to going back but obviously there so yeah really really looking forward we're all looking forward to going back but obviously there is a little bit of anxiety about it but um i think most teachers would say the same we just want to get back in the classroom we just want all our

children back we want it to be safe it's it's been very difficult teaching children from home it's you know our children are so young. It's the kids I teach. So it's been difficult. Yeah, we're looking forward to September and learning how to work in a new way. I was talking to Luanne Goldie. Mick sent us a tweet. Great to listen to Women's Hour talking about Pat Hume.

When I was young, she was the one my parents went to to get things sorted out while John was doing the big stuff. None of it would have happened without Pat. Some of you got in touch about baby banks. Fiona emailed, whilst I appreciate all the work going into supporting people in need, the bigger question we should be asking is why one of the richest economies in the world is in this situation. Should this not be part of the feature or are we going to normalise baby banks in the way food banks have been, thereby absolving the government of any responsibility?

Hilary said, I think the support organisations for new mothers and babies is fantastic. However, I don't understand why the use of reusable nappies is not promoted as this would take away the insecurity of not having enough nappies as well as being better for the environment. New style reusable nappies are shaped, easy to use and wash and need no further expense in the long run,

much cheaper than continually buying new nappies except maybe for liners and a few pairs of panties to contain them. Now do join me tomorrow when we'll have the next in our series about living with scars. Emily explains why her self-harm scars represent both pain and overcoming it. And I'll be talking to Zadie Smith about her new book of essays, which she wrote in the early months of lockdown. That's tomorrow morning, usual time, two minutes past ten. Until then, bye-bye.

From the one village behind the mountain. Imagine you're living a very different life on the other side of the world. You live silently in the shadows. And then someone takes your child, disappears into the night with your little girl, and you can't stay silent any longer. And you'll do whatever it takes, travel thousands of miles across the globe to find

your missing daughter. This is my child. I look after this child like tiger. Just go everywhere. Join me, Sue Mitchell, for this gripping new BBC Radio 4 podcast series. Subscribe to Girl Taken on BBC Sounds. everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more

questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.