Woman's Hour - Boxer Katie Taylor, Baroness Margaret Hodge, The impact of having an absent father.

Episode Date: September 7, 2026

The Irish boxer Katie Taylor sold out Croke Park in Dublin on Saturday night. More than eighty thousand people turned out to see Katie perform one last spectacular time before she retires. Katie is considered by many as Ireland's greatest athlete and one of the greatest female boxers of all time. Nuala McGovern discusses Katie's career with Ireland's first female world boxing champion Deidre Gogarty - now a coach - and an inspiration to Katie as a child, and the sports writer, broadcaster, and boxing pundit Steve Bunce.Baroness Margaret Hodge's memoir is called Battleaxe - reclaiming a label once used against her by critics. The Labour life peer looks back on her 50 years as an elected representative; and her life from being born in Alexandria to Jewish parents, to arriving in post war Britain stateless, becoming the first Children's Minister and the first woman to chair the Public Accounts Committee, to arguing with Jeremy Corbyn over antisemitism. Now aged 81 and a member of the House of Lords, Baroness Hodge argues that politics can still be a force for good.Woman’s Hour has a new series about the impact of having an absent father. The phrase 'daddy issues' is often used as a soundbite, but the reality behind it can be deeply complex. What can it mean when a father is missing from a daughter's life? We asked you for your stories. Julie wanted to tell us about the secret she had to keep for many years. She met her dad only a handful of times. He became a mystery that has absorbed her for as long as she can remember. She speaks to reporter Jo Morris.Presented by Nuala McGovern Producer: Louise Corley

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with a subscription to BBC Podcasts Premium on Apple Podcasts. You can also enjoy a range of our podcasts ad-free with an Amazon music subscription. Hello, this is Newell O'Goverin and you're listening to The Woman's Hour podcast. Hello and welcome to the program. Well, this hour, Labour peer, Margaret Hodge,

from a stateless child to now a member of the House of Lords. We're going to hear about her life story as published this week in her memoir, Battleax. Also today, a very moving interview with our listener, Julie, who responded to our request for stories about the impact of an absent father. Julie begins the conversation in our series this week, Daddy Issues. Hers is such a compelling account. Plus, can you think of a time that you quit while you were ahead? Top of your game, in your prime, and you walked away.

Where were you? What were you doing? Why did you make that decision? You can text the program, the number is 84844 on social media. We're at BBC Woman's Hour, or you can email us through our website. For a WhatsApp message or voice note, that number is 0,3,700-100-44. And I'm thinking about that this morning as I spent Saturday night watching the Irish boxer Katie Taylor electrify a packed stadium as she fought for the final time before retiring, definitely ending on a high. Now she knew when she wanted to go and how to make that happen.

Is that you? Or instead of you're thinking of a time when you stayed way too long and in retrospect, it's clear you should have walked away. Oh, so much earlier. Why are we doing that story? Because once upon a time, a 10-year-old girl wanted to box. She wanted to be a fighter. She wasn't allowed to as a girl.

So she drew her ponytail up into her helmet and pretended to be a boy to get into the ring. 30 years later, that little girl is now a woman who sold out a stadium, Crow Park in Dublin. Over 80,000 people turned out to see Katie Taylor perform one last time before she laid down her boxing gloves in the most spectacular farewell as she retires. Katie is considered by many Ireland's greatest athlete and one of the greatest female boxers of all time. So with me to discuss is Ireland's first female world boxing champion, Deirdre Gowgarty. Good to have you with us, Deirdre.

Great to be here. Thanks for having me. You're now a coach and an inspiration to Katie as a child, which we will hear all about. Also on the line is the sports writer, broadcaster, boxing pundit. Steve Buncey, as many of them will know you, Steve, if you're a listener to Five Live boxing with Steve. Great to have you on with us. How would you describe what happened on Saturday night? Well, I'm not sure where to start, because Fairy Tao and Dream Come True and Trowblazer exit, all of that stuff seems inadequate. 83,000 people there for her and an impossible dream all those years ago, as you said when she was posing as a boy. What I find amazing about that

clip is that she said she put her blinkers on. Well, I did her walk. She came through Muhammad Ali's tunnel, okay, and I did it at two in the afternoon in front of about 200 men in yellow jackets. And even I was getting nervous because she's six were up in the air on her own. She's got flames either side of her. She's got 83,000 people. You've still got the echo of both Westlife and a rendition of grace that left everybody in tears. And she was the calmest human being in the building. She's built differently, trust me. Plaster, I'll just say one thing.

I know you claim you were there, but so do about 5,000 extra people already. So there may be proof going forward. I have to say, I was very lucky. I went by myself, got a single seat. Maybe that was why I was able to get a ticket, and happened to be in front off that platform where she does the ringwalk. And I will echo what you said. She walks out, she's very religious, she has a psalm that she quotes constantly,

and she had a song that she came out that is a Christian song. Arms extended and took a moment on the corner off that ringwalk to stop and look around. I was, I would say, so struck, almost struck dumb, which is very seldom, in the sense of how much she was in possession of that moment and in possession of that stadium. I was struck a 5 foot 5 woman, maybe 139 pounds, commanding 83,000 people in the palm of her hand, really, as she made her way towards the ring. So, yes, I was there, Steve, and she'll continue to claim so.

I'll believe it. And there's that moment when she did make that turn. That was when the fireworks went off. And she takes a second, as you say, and you can see her, she's breathing it in. She's actually sucking in the atmosphere. And as she's breathing in, I swear, I'll bet 83,000 people, including you, including me, including the five-loved team,

we'll take a deep intake of breath as well. That's magical. That's the word for what happened, magical. I'll settle with magical. Yeah, and it's called, I started once upon a time, but that is very much what this fight was all about. They were talking about her career, which has been a fairy tale with lots of highs and lows as well,

she'd be the first to admit, but this is the way that she decided to go out. But what I have in front of me as well is, is a letter. Katie's letter to Deirdre. Let us bring Deirdre in here. This is fantastic Deirdre. Katie wrote to you when she was a child, 10 or 11 years of age.

You had left the country in a hope to put boxing on the map for girls and women. Here's a line from that letter. It will be a tough one talking about whether they can get to fight. Hopefully change will come over the next few years.

Maybe one day they'll even let us box in the Olympics. I hope everything goes well with your boxing career. What do you remember about receiving a letter from that little Irish girl when you were a champion and she was looking to you for inspiration? Well, I was just really happy that I was able to inspire a girl coming up. And I'd heard about her through our friend Patty, who's mentioned in the letter. And he would tell me all the time, oh, she's so like you. She reminds me so much of you because she's so.

so shy and quiet, but she's determined to be a boxer. So I really hoped she would stick with boxing. I heard she was a great athlete. She could do any sports she want. And thank goodness she did stick with boxing and brought women's boxing into the mainstream. I love this line thinking of 10-year-old kid. I'm fed up not being able to get fights, especially when I see the lads I spar with winning championships.

Because it was illegal for girls and women to fight. Ireland until 2001 dear dr yeah and uh i can't tell you the frustration of not being allowed to fulfill your dream because for a boxer it's something you're born with you can't just decide it has to be in you and when it's in you it's an unstoppable passion you have to do it so to not be allowed was just absolutely heartbreaking i remember cycling home from the gym many times with tears streaming down my face because I wouldn't get to share the ring and, you know, it received the thrill of being a champion. Let me go back to you, Steve.

There will be some of our listeners that don't follow boxing at all that maybe don't even know the name, Katie Taylor. Can you tell me a little bit about why she is such an exceptional figure? From very early on, once she did actually get sent to the European Amateur Championships and the World Amateur Championships, started winning. From about 2008 and 9, she was untouchable. And in 2007, she was asked as the only woman or was her opponent to box at the men's world championships. And about 60 or 70 high, high level brass leaders from the IOC, the Olympic Commission were their ringside. She was

fighting for Olympic boxing. If she won well, she looked spectacular. Olympic boxing would be open to the women. It was that simple. It all came down to eight minutes of action in Chicago. that late summer. She stopped the woman in one round. Olympic boxing got a rubber stamp the next week, or the next year rather. She won the Olympic title. She turned professional 10 years ago. She was a 21st consecutive world title fight. She's fought in great arenas around the world. Madison Square Garden. It's our holy sacred home. It is to boxing what Croke Park is to Irish sport. It's sacred. It's in all of our hearts. She fought there, sold it out, 21,000 people. The list of first in Katie Taylor's life is immense.

But I've got to tell you, without Deirdre paving the way like she did all those years ago, and I first saw her box in about 1995 above a pub in South London. Really? That's how we've come. From a pub in South London, the cricketers, I believe, in Tooting to the Croke Park in 30 years. It's hard to believe. I have to read another letter, Deirdre. You wrote to Katie before.

this final bout. Tell me a little bit about your thinking when you put pen to paper or got down at the computer. Well, I just wanted to express a lot of as wonderful as Saturday night was, I did feel a profound sense of sadness for the women of my time who were treated so poorly and told no and run off from gyms.

And, you know, I did feel just, you know, the heartache and the spice that so many women went through in the last few decades. And it's fantastic to just, I just wanted to express her just how far we've come, basically. And she has solidified now that women will always be respected. I was in Drawha to Boxing Club this week and packed full of young girls loving it and being treated just as well. just as much respect as any of the boys. And the women of my time didn't receive that. Just reading a little off your letter,

you say what was once considered unacceptable has become something an entire nation celebrates. Katie, what you've done for women's boxing goes far beyond championships, medals and records. And there have been so many sports people from across all the various disciplines, of course, talking about what a leader she has been for them. But I was struck dear, Dera, and I wonder how you felt you talk about the young girls

and women being accepted into the club where you wear up in Drogh. But I noticed, you know, in the stadium on Saturday night, old men, young boys, people of so many different walks of lives and backgrounds, wearing flags with Katie's face upon them, something that I'm sure we wouldn't have seen in Ireland even 15 years ago, 20 years ago. No. I mean, I fought Christy Martin in what was a groundbreaking moment for women's boxing. That's where it really broke open. And I came home to a heading in the newspaper that said,

Female Fight Upsine, where the writer claimed that it should be banned immediately and whoever put it on should be in jail. So, you know, this is, and this was quite common. Now, in fairness, there was another article in the same newspaper that said, Irish woman loses thrilling fight. So there was starting to be a shift. Some journalists were actually writing about women in boxing it seriously. And then there was the ones that were treating it like it was a joke and a sideshow.

I did see in Katie, 10-year-old Katie, writing to you, Deirdre, she put in brackets at the end. Tell Christy Martin, I'm getting ready for her, ha-ha, talking about that legendary boxer in the United States. Steve, where do we go from here? Well, we're in the best place we've ever been. We've got masses of British and Irish women coming through. In fact, Deidre was with a woman called Amy Broadhurst the other day. We'll probably win a gold medal in Los Angeles in a couple of years' time, and she's nailed on for it. We've got enormous organisations getting behind it, and the women are doing great business.

Don't worry about that. Could it be better? Absolutely, it could be better. We've got a ways to go on the pay parity, but the women are packing them in. And with that Katie Taylor Swan Song, that man, that man, magical fairy town night. It's made just about everybody look up. And you're absolutely right. It's not just the young girls. I have been with Katie and Killarney. I've been with Katie and Donigall when she's surrounded by 11 and 12 year old girls and spends hours and hours talking to them,

bending down, talking to them at their level. That's standard. But I had a big tearful embrace with Michael Flatley, the Lord of the Dance, the King of the Lord of the Dance. Now that's got one of the oddest moments. My shoulder was sodden from his tears. That's how happy he was. So trust me, it was a special night. It wasn't just full of love. of female fans of Katie Taylor. There were some of the old guard there as well, trust me.

Absolutely. And for those who are wondering, are there often boxing matches in Crow Park? No, there's not. Last person that you might remember Muhammad Ali against Al Blue Lewis, but that was back in 1972.

So history was made. Thanks so much for sharing some of your memories from that night that will go down in the record book, Steve Bunce with us. Of course, you'll hear him on Five Live Boxing.

And Deirda Gogarty, now a coach, who was such an inspiration to Katie as a child. Thanks very much for all your analysis. 8444-844 if you'd like to get in touch. I want to move on next, however, to Baroness Margaret Hodge. She is called her memoir Battleax, reclaiming a label once used against her by critics. The former MP for Barking has 50 years as an elected representative as a local councillor, leader of Islington London Borough Council, MP and Minister. The book covers her life from being born in Alexandria in 1944 to Jewish parents

to her family arriving in post-war Britain from Egypt stateless. To her becoming the first children's minister and the first woman to chair the public accounts committee. Margaret Hodge, who turns 82 tomorrow, is now a member of the House of Lords. I asked her about the choice of title for her memoir. My agent suggested we called it Battle Axe, and I was a bit nervous at the time because it's seen as a derogatory term for women. And then I thought, sod this, I'm going to capture it and redefine it

because I think I'm quite a strong person, I'm quite a determined person, I'm an open person, I'm pretty direct. Were those qualities in a man, they'd be admired. And I think we should admire me as a battle axe. And it's a bit of a joke really as well. So let us turn back. It is a memoir. Let us go back to your arrival in the UK.

You arrive stateless, and I understand you had to pass a test to stay. you tell us a little bit about that test? My parents had German-Austrian passports. They were taken away by the Nuremberg laws. So we arrived here stateless. My dad panicked about that. He really felt that he needed the security of knowing that we had a state and a passport. So we'd been here five years. I was nine, ten. My next sister down was seven. And then my two older siblings were away. My mum was in hospital. She was dying of cancer. But my dad said, we're going ahead. We're going ahead. and going to try and get British passports. And an inspector came to tea.

To inspect these two little children. Never happened today because of safeguarding and all those things. For tea, we used to have a boiled egg or something like that. And my dad made us have cucumber sandwiches and fruitcake. And I'd come from Egypt where we had mangoes and peaches and all these lovely, luscious fruit and dried fruit was not the favourite thing. So it was quite a ridiculous, but it stuck in my memory. It must have been a traumatic occasion.

The worst of it was he spent an hour with us this guy. And he just quizzed us on who our friends were, what the books were we read, what the games were we played. And it felt like a sort of a cricket test. We were lucky to pass. Some of our friends weren't. But doesn't that make you think that actually there wasn't a golden age in welcoming asylum seekers, people fleeing from persecution and death into the UK? And much of what we do today is as rigid and unwelcoming as it was and felt to me at the age of.

So at which we stayed with you, which you talk about in the book. But pretty soon after that, you mentioned your mum was in hospital. She did die on Christmas Day when you were just 10. When you look back on that now through the decades, can you understand the impact that it had on you? Yeah, it's taken me a long time because death was dealt with in such. a bad way in those days. I knew she was ill. I was visiting her in hospital. She had stomach cancer. She was learning Russian as she was dying. So she was a former woman. And it was Christmas

day. We'd had Christmas a year before when we got our presents. And we had this Italian home help who'd come with us from Egypt. And she walked into the room and she said to me, Margaret, your mum's very ill. And I sort of thought, I ought to cry. So I did. And then I looked out of the bedroom window because I could see the car coming down the road and the car came really slowly and I thought they're bringing mum home and they of course arrived without her and nobody sat me down and said your mother's died it was somehow presumed I'd know I wasn't allowed to go to the funeral in those days that didn't happen and honestly for years I used to have these dreams that she'd fly in through the window somehow or that she was in a nursing home being cared for and at some point she'd come back

although we did visit her grave. So it was a terrible way of dealing with it. Well, I remember the other thing is there were no photographs. There was one photograph of that that was left. So you were supposed to sweep death away and get on with it. But obviously we know you from your career in politics. What inspired you to go into politics in the first place? You were a young mum?

I was a young mum. I'd been doing international market research. So that had meant I was travelling across countries. doing sort of focus groups on various cross-European issues. In those days, women were expected to stay at home when the children were little. And I thought, probably because my own mum had died, my only ambition really was to become a mum. Six weeks in, I was miserable, although I loved my son

and I've got four children, so I do love children. But I was miserable, felt no point in getting up, you know, always pulling the tit out to give the next feed, rang my sister and said, I can't be like this. And a friend of mine, I was active in the Labour Party, a friend of mine who was a counsellor was moving up to Birmingham. And she said to me, go on, Margaret,

put your hat in the ring to try to become a counsellor. It'll keep you sane whilst you're changing nappies. And I thought it was the ideal answer because you'd be out a couple of days a week. so you'd have something to stimulate you outside the house. I thought I'd do it for a couple of years until the kids were at school, and then I'd move into a career. What I didn't know when I started was that it's a sort of drug.

Can you explain that a little bit further? Getting engaged in yet another battle, another campaign, another issue that you really care passionately about, it's sort of really difficult to stop. And I always say it's not just the big campaigns, I mean, I have met and helped hundreds of individuals down the years, and it can be so moving. The story I'll tell you is that there was a family who came to see me at the time of the Kosovo war, and they were having terrible trouble getting their immigration status sorted out,

and I helped them get that sorted out. And then I met her 15 years later, the daughter who'd been five, and she'd just come down from a postgraduate, got a degree at Oxford. And she said to me, I could never ever done this if you hadn't helped me stay in the country. And that's, you know, it's hugely satisfying. There are lows. I was about some of the highs and we'll talk about more of them, but also the lows. Of course, moving into politics, not the easiest move, perhaps for a young mom.

You were criticised as a champagne socialist. You will have heard that term as well, leveled at you. What do you say to people who argue that not everyone can afford to take the risks that you were able to take to move into politics? That we've got to make it easier for everybody to be able to do so. And I think one of the things that women in particular, by working together, it's one of the great successes really of our era. You know, if you think I was the 165th woman ever to become an MP.

If you go back to 2010, we were under 10%. 83, we were 3.5% women. And Tessa Giles, who was a good friend of mine, when she came in in 92, used to laughingly say there are more MPs whose first name is John than there are women MPs. So we've made it easier. You'd change the hours, which particularly helps women who live in London, who've got their children in London or their caring responsibilities in London. We've allowed paid parental leave. You can now vote remotely if you're having a child. We've got a nursery.

We're tackling the sexual harassment. So we're just making life easier. Although I think many would say, and we see the figures bear it out as well, that at times it does not look like an attractive life for women because of the amount of abuse that they encounter, which you did as well over the years for different issues or different aspects. Yeah, the abuse. I got my first death threat in 1970.

well before social media. I've learnt, and I think you have to do that if you're in politics, to compartmentalise your life. And there are a number of things. One is it's never about you. If you think about me down the ages, I've been, you know, battle acts. I've been the most awful person.

I've been a community champion. I've been a heroine. I've been all sorts of things in the public eye. And yet I'm always me. So it's not personal. I think you've got to think that. So I always, when I had the kids when they were little, I learned how to just completely switch off

from all the concerns in politics and focus on the family and the children. It's really interesting that you say it's not personal because, of course, the attacks that we see seem so incredibly personal that you underwent as well. Let's talk about Labour for a moment. They have never had a permanent female leader.

Why not? What needs to happen before a woman reaches the party's top job? Yeah, deeply depressing. There are tons of really, really, really talented young women who come into Parliament and more than half of our MPs and our women. It's a bit about lack of confidence at times when women might have stood up in the past and stood. And I think there's still misogyny. But if you look, for example, at the trade union movement,

they never had women leaders. They're now beginning to have them. And it'll come. It'll come. You think there's misogyny within the Labour Party? Of course. Of course. Inevitably. You know, just talking about the power football. You know, we might all love football.

I've always made a thing. This is interesting. And when I worked those two years in the private sector, I did it very deliberately. If I've got a bunch of men in the room, I talk about their children. So I make them talk about our agenda. Otherwise, you end up talking about football and beer. to speak extensively in your book about what was achieved during that time as you were a children's minister introducing flexible working rights.

But one of the most difficult episodes of your career involved Islington, the children's home scandal. You served as the leader of the Islington Council from 1982 to 1992, which time there was severe and systemic child sexual abuse occurring in the borough's children's home. Looking back, because we're talking about the high, and the lows. How would you describe your regrets over that time? Well, that on a personal level, is my biggest regret. It was allegations, 70s, 80s and 90s, and of course I only became a little counselor in the 70s.

And I know it seems unconscionable today as I sit here in the studio and talk to you. But in the 80s, I don't think we began to have a handle on the concept that there might be pede of files exploiting in children's homes. And you see it even today with the churches, with Lambeth, it took forever, with Jimmy Saville. I think in those days there was just, it doesn't excuse it, we should have had it, and there was, it was, we were just unconscious of it. But can I tell you the lesson I learned?

Because when the allegations came through, I didn't do nothing. I mean, I had endless meetings looking at every single allegation, and I had round the table, all the relevant officials. They all said to me, it's a lie. They talked about the children. That's what the children were saying. They talked about naughty children. And they told me that the children were being bribed by the paper. And that's what flipped me when I thought, I can't be, I think that's gutted journalism if they're doing that. Now, I understand that's not true. and the mistake I made which has changed how I work is I never talk to the kids

and actually I should have done then and now from that time onwards whenever I do any public sector work obviously the receivers of the service the users of the service have to be central to your thinking about it and you talk about the criticism of you as children's minister as well

but I do want to move forward in our time. You were given the job of the first woman to lead the public accounts committee. You were expecting this to be a dry and dusty old dew

as were your team so not the most excited about the job ahead. But I think you'd probably describe it now as perhaps one of the most exciting roles. It was. I'd come back and it just

it didn't take me long to realise that we were there trying to look value for money and efficiency and effectiveness in the expenditure of taxpayers' money. And it's not government money. When the government says, we're spending this, it's your money, it's my money. And therefore, accounting for it to you and I who pay is absolutely critical. So it didn't take me very long to understand that it matter to my people

and that the way the people who came and gave evidence, they use technical phrases, they use professional phrases, you know, they hid behind. obfuscation and language and that sort of stuff, which I wasn't going to have. This is probably the battle aspect of me. And we uncovered a load of rubbish. And I think it just connected with people. I remember we did Google, Starbucks and Amazon, all making loads of money here in the UK,

none of whom then and still now pay proper tax in the UK on the profits that they make here. And it led to a huge boycott pick of Starbucks. It's very difficult not to use Google, but I never go into a Starbucks even to this day. And of course, I do not have any of those companies' responses to the descriptions that you're giving them at the moment or a response, for example, on their tax affairs right now. But you face criticism at time for your style of question. It was theatrical. Would that be fair?

But it was theatrical to a purpose. Was it grandstanding? No. one of the key assets you have as politicians is voice and you need to use that voice to reflect people's views and to simulate debate. So I don't apologise for using voice and using theatre but I wasn't doing it to have my 20 seconds on the telly

or my 10 minutes on women's hour. I was using it to stimulate a debate around the issue and I think we succeeded in that. It annoyed the civil servants. The civil servants thought, you know, I was accusing them of line. and things like that. But, you know, I think they had to account.

It's our money. It's not their money. I want to turn to a defining chapter in your book, also your later career. You challenged Jeremy Corbyn, the former leader of the Labour Party, over anti-Semitism. What made you decide to take him on that way?

Because you didn't initially see yourself as a Jewish MP. I didn't. I never defined myself as a Jewish MP. I started getting anti-Semitic abuse and it was horrible and I give some... You do give examples in the book. It is horrible, isn't it? It is absolutely vile and lots of it. And the argument was over how you defined anti-Semitism.

And there was an international definition of anti-Semitism that was being accepted by everybody, local authorities, international students, government departments, private sector organization. Jeremy wouldn't accept it. and it might have been wrong, slightly wrong. I always said the argument was on the heads of a pin. Could you? Couldn't you? You would have criticise the current regime in Israel.

I think you can. I've always been critical of Netanyahu, and I'm particularly critical at this time of the way he's working with the settlements on the West Bank. And Jeremy used his power within the structures of the Labour Party to stop the Labour Party adopting it. And I was furious. It's one of my character.

I do lose my call. I lost my call and I was with a couple of the guys and I said, I'm going to tell him he's an anti-semitic racist. So I did talk to him. I said he had made it an intolerable position for Jews to be members of the Labour Party. I looked at page 46 paragraph 3. He said, well, wasn't an anti-Semitism.

Anti-Semite. We were getting nowhere. And it somehow was a catalyst for bringing people together. And the next day, they, decided they were going to take disciplinary action against me. And I felt really isolated. You know, I just thought, oh my God, what am I going to do? But what I hadn't realised was the extent of the warmth,

a number of Jewish organisations, individuals who came and supported me. But it did become a catalyst. We didn't win it, but it was an important moment in the battle. And I'm proud I played that role. And I will reach out to the office of Jeremy Corbyn for response and for his view or opinion on how events transpired. When your husband Henry got ill, you became the first minister to take compassionate leave.

He died sadly in 2009. You wrote, I thought, so movingly, about widowhood. What do people not know about it that you would like them to know? So the first thing is you can't be prescriptive. Everybody experiences widowhood and grief in a different way. And I think trying to tell me that I would, was going to get over it in two years and I was going to get repartnered and it was all right to be angry and all those things that you're told, I think are totally wrong. You've just

got to let people go through that journey in the way they can. And for me, Henry's still with me. I mean, I still sort of talked to him, although I'm an atheist. I talk about managing on my own. That's the way it's worked for me. But, and this is probably the bit that I go in the book, I object to being called a widow. It took me forever. I don't think I still call myself a widow because I don't want to be defined by what I've lost. And it was bad enough losing it, you know.

And I think that we should stop doing that. Why do you have to fill in these forms that tell you all this? I would stop doing that entirely. There's an interesting stat. One in four women, over 65 widows, we're all going to probably live for a long life beyond that, women just outlive men, which is why we need the mammograms. But why should you define yourself for perhaps 30 years of life

as something you've lost? Because you do find a new way of living your life. Professionally, I've probably been my most successful since Henry died. He probably thinks, you know, I did too much. I shouldn't have shouted at Google, or I shouldn't have called Jeremy Corvin and anti-Semitic racist. you might have tried to stop be doing that. So don't prescribe, don't use the term, do it your way.

But there are ways of managing life which can bring you happiness. Margaret Hodge, her memoir, Batlaxx, is published on Thursday. She refers to mammograms there. She has been campaigning for mammograms for women over 70, as you may know. Now, there are a number of responses we requested after that interview. A spokesperson for Jeremy Corbyn, had this to say, Jeremy's leadership

transformed the Labour Party into a mass movement that confronted economic injustice, opposed all forms of racism and stood up for peace around the world. Baroness Hodge could have helped elect a government that sought to end the grotesque levels of poverty and inequality in Britain.

It is regrettable that she chose to engage in baseless smears and personal abuse instead. These disgraceful accusations about Jeremy are and always have been demonstrably false. He will continue to speak up for more equal and inclusive society as the proud MP for Islington North. We also reached out to Amazon.

They provided this statement. Amazon contributed more than £6.5 billion in total taxes in the UK last year, including over £1.3 billion in direct taxes, which includes corporation tax up 20% on the year before. To Google, their spokesperson said we pay all the taxes that are due and continue to invest in the UK as a key hub of tech and innovation.

and to Starbucks. Their spokesperson said Starbucks is committed to paying all of its taxes wherever they are due. As a responsible business, we manage our global tax responsibilities in keeping with our mission and values. Our approach to tax aims to align with the needs and the long-term interests of our various stakeholders. That includes governments, shareholders, partners and the communities where we operate and source products. So some of the responses to some of the discussion that I was having. with Baroness Hodge. If you want to get in touch the way to do it,

84844 on social media or at BBC Women's Hour or indeed you can email us through our website. Growing businesses deal with the same problem. Too many tools, too much back and forth and not enough time. Odu helps bring it all together.

It's an all-in-one business management platform fully integrated from sales and accounting to inventory and marketing. So your team can, can spend less time chasing information and focus on growth. Whether you're in retail, manufacturing or service, Odu gives you one place to manage your business. Visit Odu.com to book a demo. It's O'Dbh-O.com. Get more with BBC Podcasts, wherever you listen. Be the first to listen to your favourite shows, like Evil Genius, Good, Bad Billionaire, and You're Dead to Me, with a subscription to BBC

Podcasts Premium on Apple Podcasts. You can also enjoy a range of our podcasts, ad, free with an Amazon music subscription. Now for a new series about the impact of having an absent father, the phrase daddy issues is often used in quite a trite way, but the reality behind the term is often deeply complex. What can it truly mean when a father is missing from a daughter's life? Well, we asked you for your stories of having an absent father. Julie got in touch, and she told us when she heard our call out

that it stopped her in her tracks. She wants to talk to us about a story she kept, secret for so many years. Growing up, Julie was never able to talk to the people involved, her mother, and not even allowed talk to her friends. There are some details in her story that some people may find distressing. Until she was 11, Julie lived with her mum and her maternal grandparents. She met her dad only a handful of times. She says he became a mystery that absorbed her for as long as she can remember. Julie is now 73. Our reporter Joe Morris met her at her home and Joe asked

Julie, just how much her father's absence had been a presence throughout her life. It consumed me for years and years. First of all, when I was very small, not so much, because I was always thinking, oh, well, we'll probably go and see him again. But once it stopped, I used to think, well, in the early days, well, what's happened? Nobody's told me anything about it, and so I spent a lot of time. thinking about why, you know, what's happened. And of course, as you do as a child, thinking,

oh, is it something I've done? Is it something he doesn't like about me? I had absolutely no idea. When you think back to that time, Julie, as a young child, what's your overriding feeling? Loneliness and confusion, I think. I spent a lot of time. on my own, usually in the attic.

My grandma's house had this big attic where I loved to play. So mum went to work and my grandma looked after me and we lived with my grandparents. And of course I was always very scared of telling people. I had a dad because my mother had just made it absolutely clear without saying anything that I was not to talk about. it. And she did often say to me about all kinds of things, you're not to tell other people our business. And I felt if I did that, there'd be some terrible punishment. And I think also

my grandma and my mum were worried all the time. Because my grandma felt quite a huge shame about my mother having had an illegitimate child. Yeah, me. Yeah. It's nice that you can laugh about it now. We'll laugh a lot. Julie, you only met your father a few times as a young child. Yeah. What's your earliest memory of him? My earliest memory of him is my mum getting me dressed up, which she loved to do.

And then my grandma's standing in the background being annoyed about something, which was often the case. and I couldn't tell what. And there was a very bad atmosphere as we left. We went to Brockport Park, which was quite near where we lived. And as we got there, I could see there was a man standing under a statue. And we got nearer, and we were going towards him. And I thought, oh, no, because I only saw my mum at the weekend on a Sunday, usually, because she worked on Saturdays.

And I thought, oh, now I won't have her all to myself, because she's. going up to this man. So as we approached, it was disappointment, really. And then she started to talk to him, and it seemed like she knew him. And she was calling him by this name, which I don't remember. And because I'd heard her calling him it, I started to use it. It was like a nickname, I think. And they both laughed, and he said, I'm your daddy.

You call me daddy. And I thought, oh, that's a bit weird. weird, he's my daddy. How old were you at the time, do you think? I couldn't have been more than five. I can remember thinking that. I remember thinking, I don't know if I'm going to say this very easily,

because I'm not used to it. Because my mother never called her father, dad. Because he didn't speak to her, because he'd stopped speaking to her when he realised she was pregnant. So although he lived in the house, they didn't talk to each. other. Yeah. Did he talk to you?

Sometimes, but minimally. So we didn't have a relationship. It seemed like daddy was something a bit embarrassing for me and in my family. Not for other people. Daddies were for other people. Not for me. I think I went on thinking that all my life. But he was very playful with me. And I I remember him lifting me up and spinning me round, which was a kind of play that I'd never had, that sort of physical play. I can remember not minding his touch and just then having a really nice time.

After you met your dad for the first time, did you ask your mum about him? Once I said to her, why doesn't my daddy live with us? And she said, Nobody's daddy lives with them What did you think when she said nobody's daddy live with them? I just thought, well, I'm just being fobbed off.

So you saw other children around you with fathers? Yeah, yeah, in the street. You know, they lived in the road. None of the other families didn't have daddy's living with them. So it wasn't a very good lie. But I knew not to argue with her. Or else I'd lose her love. and that was very important to me.

Can you remember the last time you saw your dad? Yes. We took the train and he met us at the station and took us back to he had a flat. Yeah, I had a great time. We went and walked on the beach and I remember we stayed there and I slept in a spare bedroom with my mum

and I remember the sun coming through the window early in the morning and hearing the milk arriving, the chink of the milk bottles. But that is all I remember of the last time I saw him. And nobody said, this is goodbye, or you'll never see each other again. After that, I got a birthday card for my seventh birthday, from him. And I can remember it had a roundabout with children

and it said to my darling girl and I don't know what happened to it. Just vanishing like everything else and then no more being said

when I remember thinking well I'm not going to forget I can remember thinking that it felt like my father had dissolved. He was out there somewhere. I would wonder if I'd seen him somewhere, and I might be able to actually see him. I never stopped thinking about that. But he did become this ghostly presence because his identity, well, what was it? And the thing that really bugged me for a long time, I don't even know his name. And I, of course,

did not know that until I was 38 after I'd had my son. When your mum finally told you? Well, wrote to me. Wrote to you? Wrote to me a letter, yes. And then she'd put his name. So that was the first time I'd ever seen his name. I mean, you must have had so many questions as a child.

Oh, do you know what? I still do. And they won't ever be answered. And then when you were 12, everything changed. Yeah, yeah. When I was 12, I asked my mother if I could go ice skating and she said she would take me. And we went to the ice rink together and she met a man there at the ice rink. And I can remember her coming over with this man and she said to me, this is our friend, our new friend. So your mum met a man and he was married already and they had a relationship?

Yes, he was already married and he... I found him a very scary man. He was very big and very loud and very opinionated. And he was actually very misogynistic even for the time. Your stepfather, I'm really sorry to say, Julie, he sexually abused you. He sexually abused me, yes. My stepfather sexually abused me from, I think he started the process of grooming when I was 13 and then the actual sexual abuse started when I was 14 and he put me under huge amounts of emotional pressure.

But I think I was perfect really because I had. to keep so many secrets already, and he was living with my mum, and I had to tell everyone at school that he was my biological father, or I would really get into trouble. How long did the abuse last for? Oh, it went on for a long time. It was prolonged. He went on until I left to go to university, because he was coercive controlling as well, I realised now, and he just controlled every part of our lives. And it was a very scary, very lonely time. Throughout which I never stopped thinking about my biological father. What did you think about him?

I wanted him to come and rescue me. I wanted him to know what was happening to me and to help me. I felt there was nobody I could turn to. Nobody. And sometimes I felt like I wanted to die. But my stepfather said to me, I want you to call me

daddy. And I never did. Yeah. I think these kind of fantasies started then of somehow or other being able to meet my biological dad in a cafe or coffee shop and just being able to sit there and talk to him.

I imagined telling him, I'm doing really well with my A-levels and I'm studying these books. So how much do you think sort of escaping your imagination helped you as that young person? Hugely. Yeah, I don't think I would have survived without that. I felt so desperate. I so wanted to be away from it. And so you went to university and you studied English and then you became an English teacher. Yes. In those days you got full grants. So it meant that I could go to university and have this incredible opportunity.

When you hear the phrase, daddy issues, what does that mean to you? I don't like it as a phrase. You imagine someone saying, oh, she's got daddy issues, rolling their eyes. and as if they're dismissive of things that are actually very serious in your life and that you're just a pest, an attention-seeking or a bit of a drama queen. When I first heard it, I didn't really think it applied to me. I thought, oh, and then I realised, obviously, that it does apply to women who have some kind of wound around the father. This is my studio where I do my painting and this used to be my daughter's bedroom, yes.

I feel so safe here. It wasn't really until I got married and I was living with my husband. I felt really safe because I lived on my own before that and he's so different from anybody I'd ever known before. Just encouraging me to be independent, encouraging me to do what I wanted to do. I mean, we've been together for 38 years,

this fantastic friendship that you just feel comfortable and safe with this person, and you can just be you. And I didn't feel safe. I certainly didn't when I was with my abusive boyfriend. So this is a good place to work out some of your feelings, and complex feelings around everything that happened to you? Yeah, I do that a lot, yes. How many children have you got, do you?

I've got two children. two adult children. Yes, yes. And you're also a granny. I'm a granny now, yes. How has everything that's happened to you impacted how you've brought up your own children? I've just always felt right from the start, I'm not going to have secrets. I'm going to be open with my children as and when it's appropriate. So when it arises, instead of quickly thinking of something that isn't true, I'm going to very carefully think of something that they can understand and process that is true. I told them about my childhood

because I didn't want to keep secrets from them. And I wanted my children to feel they could trust me and that I was going to tell them the truth. How much did you have expectations of how a father should be when you had your own children? I knew so little, not only about my own dad, but about the whole idea of what a father is. What I did have was an idea of what I didn't want a father to be.

Overbearing, interfering, not allowing you any privacy. You failed them. This is the way you must be or else. All these things that my stepfather had been, that would be horrendous. I mean, I suppose when you saw your husband with your children being a dad, did it bring things up for you? Yeah, it did actually Because he was very good at

When they were small He would, you know, hold them on his shoulders You know, carry them, give them piggyback And it reminded me of my dad Doing that with me And just finding it an airously funny As babies do Yeah

And what was that like for you seeing that That made me happy Julie, how old were you When you finally found out the truth about your father? I think I was probably about 68, but I hadn't really felt that I could do that until my mum had died.

And so you did a DNA test? Yeah. How quickly did you find some of your dad's family and found out the truth about him? Well, it was quite soon, actually. And I'd got a message saying, I think that I might have a photograph, or my

dad might have a photograph of your dad. I started to cry. I just felt so excited and so nervous. That's my cousin there. And this is... And this is my dad, of course. My dad sitting next to his wife. What did you think when you saw it?

Oh, I thought, yeah, that's how I remember him. I was imagining it. It was actually in the wintertime just before I was born. But he probably knows I'm on the way. to have a photograph of your father. It seems like something everybody would have, but it's something that I had never had. And then very quickly after this,

you decided to paint him. Yeah. And what did you want to do with it? Get to know him more. This is the painting I did of my dad from the tiny little photo. And I did two wood panels. So one of your...

your dad? I'm one of me, and you can separate them, and you can bring them together. When you put them together, I'm sort of touching his shoulder. It gives you a feeling of some contact and some knowing the person, I suppose. What sort of things would you say to him? I would say to him, you know, do you regret that you fathered this child that you couldn't be with? because he was married, I discovered, and he had no children.

He couldn't have any children. And in my imagination, he would say no, don't regret. That is Julie's story there speaking to Joe Morris. Thanks so much to Julie for sharing. If you have been affected by any of the issues, discuss through our links to help and support at BBC.co.com.ukuk forward slash action line.

Our next interview in this series will be on Wednesday's Women's Hour. During that, lots of you listening, here's one message that came in. I'm finding this morning's

program about absent father is really interesting and I can see from my own experience how important it is for children to have a father, obviously as long as things are safe. I have been an absent father though through no fault of my own.

I have an excellent relationship with my son but my daughter has been alienated from me for a number of years. Only within the last nine months have I started to be able to rebuild that relationship with my daughter and it's growing stronger. It's so sad that children sometimes don't have that choice

because of other parents or just because the fathers aren't interested. My heart goes out to them all. And many of you, of course, expressing a lot of feeling for Julie as she tells her story. Another message from June in Dublin, just hearing how Katie Taylor had to dress as a boy to get fights starting out. She is National Velvet.

That's the film with Elizabeth Taylor about a girl who ought to dress as a boy to ride in the Grand National. It reminds me of that other great Irish sportswoman Rachel Blackmore, who I know, who won the Grand National, as you might know, first woman to do so, who wants to meet Katie, has not yet, but what a conversation that would be. Tomorrow, Emily Sanday and also being pregnant in France. Apparently you're treated like a VIP, so says my guest, we'll find out. That's all for today's woman's hour.

Join us again next time. Please welcome your any questions panel. Hello, I'm Alex Forsyth, host. of Radio 4s any questions. If you don't know the programme, this is what it's about. Every Friday, I'm joined by politicians, journalists and public figures who answer questions directly from a live audience, giving you real views, real challenges,

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