Woman's Hour - British Vogue, Beijing Winter Olympics 2022 & Mummy Bloggers

Episode Date: February 4, 2022

The cover of British Vogue’s February 2022 issue has made history. It’s the first Vogue cover to feature nine black models, titled Fashion Now. The issue celebrates the rise of African models in high-end fashion, styled by Vogue’s first Black Editor-In-Chief Edward Enninful and Brazilian photographer, Rafael Pavarotti. Undeniably it’s been met with celebration but also some nuanced criticism. We hear from Chelsea Mtada, the Arts and Culture Editor at Guap Magazine.We discuss the new legal duties being put on parents who educate their children at home. Parents in England will have to let the local authority know and register their child accordingly. If they don't, they'll be penalised. We hear from Charlotte Ramsden President of the Association of Directors of Children's Services and Gabriella Rook, a young trustee from Education Otherwise, the longest standing and largest home-education charity in England and Wales.The Winter Olympics 2022 in Beijing officially begin on Friday. Around 3000 athletes from 91 nations will compete for one of the 109 gold medals on offer. So who are the women among the Great Britain hopefuls? We hear from the four time Olympian and BBC Ski Sunday Presenter Chemmy Alcott and from Katie Smith Olympic Reporter from BBC Sport. Big investment firms are missing out on up to 2.37 trillion pounds of potential investment because of their poor record in attracting female investors. That was a warning this week from the giant investment bank BNY Mellon, which revealed only 28% of women feel confident in investing their money. Anne-Marie McConnon is the bank's chief client experience officer, and she tells us more about their findings. She’s joined by Sarah Turner the founder of Angel Academe’s, a network for mostly-female angel investors.Social media is filled with bloggers and influencers – so how does someone stand out? Lockdown has seen a trend in a new kind of ‘insta mums’ – who are bringing humour and a dose of reality to motherhood. Both Molly Gudger and Louise Boyce have built platforms on telling it like it is when it comes to parenting. Presenter: Anita Rani Producer: Rabeka NurmahomedPhotographer credit: Rafael Pavarotti

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme, peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, I'm Anita Rani and welcome to Woman's Hour from BBC Radio 4. Good morning, welcome to Friday's Woman's Hour. Now, I might make some of you a few quid today as we're talking about women investing, or rather not investing. When it comes to making our money work hard for us, turns out we're less good at it or maybe less interested in it than men. So I'll be talking to two experts about the world of investments. But this morning, I'd like to hear from you about your investments. And I don't mean your ISA details, although if you do want to share them, I'm all ears.

I mean any investments you've made that are meaningful and you hold dear. Like maybe the teapot you picked up at a car boot sale that makes you the best cup of tea in the world. In fact, I bring my favourite China mug into Women's Hour HQ every week. It's one that I bought in India because, well, tea, quite frankly, tastes incredible in it. And it was worth the cost of the flight. So that's my investment. Or maybe you've knitted a pair of socks with some fine yarn that you adore or invested in a record you saved up to buy that changed your life here's looking at you blue lines by massive attack so i'd love to hear

all about your treasured investments this morning whatever they are you can text woman's hour on 84844 texts will be charged at your standard message rate. So the advice is to check with your network provider for extra costs. And of course, you can contact us on social media. It's at BBC Women's Hour, or you can email us through our website. Also, are you homeschooling your children? Is this a new decision since lockdown? Why did you decide to continue with homeschooling? Well, a new register of children being educated at home will be brought in in England. I'll be finding out more about that. I'd love your thoughts. As well as that, we'll be discussing the February cover of Vogue, which is

celebrating African models. Have you seen it? What do you think of it? We would love to hear your thoughts. If you haven't seen it, you can Google it and let me know what you think. And I'm sure we'll be putting it on our social media. It's at BBC Woman's Hour. And of course, that text number once again, 84844. But first, there are to be new legal duties put on parents who educate their children at home. Parents in England will have to let the local authority know and register their children accordingly. If they don't, they'll be penalised. At the same time, councils will be required to support families. The new register is designed to keep track of children who don't go to school to make sure they're getting the education that's expected,

as well as keeping them safe. Charlotte Ramsden is president of the Association of Directors of Children's Services and Gabriella Rook is a young trustee. She's 17 from Education Otherwise, the longest standing and largest home education charity in England and Wales. Good morning to you both. I'm going to come to you first, Charlotte.

So let's understand some of the figures here. How many children are being educated at home at the moment? So the truth is we don't absolutely know. So our estimate is it's about 155,000. And we do collect the information that we know annually. But of course, that is only based on what we know. And the whole point of having a register is that we know there are children who are being educated at home who we don't know about. So we will get a much more definitive number once that register is in place. So we will get a much more definitive number once that

register is in place. So you're estimating about 155,000 at the moment. How much, how does that compare to how many children you think were being, or you know were home educated pre-pandemic? So the number's gone up significantly during the pandemic. On average, the increase is about 20% a year but during the pandemic I think it was 34% in our last survey. We do expect that to settle down again because some of those children went into home education due to their anxieties about Covid or due to the parental anxieties about Covid and obviously we're working really closely with parents about their anxieties. And some of those children have now chosen to come back into education through a school. So it's a bit fluid at the moment, but the numbers are definitely increasing.

And it's not just related to Covid, obviously. It's also related to people's choices about what they want to do, how they want to bring their children up. And we totally respect that. And have you got any idea how many children are home educated but are under the radar? No, and that's where we think that there are a significant number, but we really don't know that. Sometimes we discover children who are home educated,

perhaps they've had an accident and turn up at hospital for treatment and actually they're not known to anybody. So there are definitely children out there who we're not aware of, but we really can't give that number at the moment. It would be, just guesswork. Do you know yet when it will become law to put your children on this register? Tell us a bit more about it. So we don't. Obviously, DfE have been talking about it for some time and it's great that they finally made that announcement. But they've simply said, apologies, there's a fire alarm where I am. That will go off in just a second. They've said that it will happen at the next legislative opportunity,

but we don't yet know when that will be. The next legislative opportunity. I'm going to bring in Gabriella, who is is 17 you're on the trustee of education otherwise and you attended primary school but you were home educated for secondary school so tell us your reaction to this how how have your members responded to the plans for a national register well to be honest we're totally disgusted especially as a young home educated person myself i feel like i'm being compared to as a criminal because the only other register on in the country in england is the one of the sex offenders so why should as a home educated young

person and all the home educated family home educating families who are out there why should we be compared to as criminals when we're simply doing something differently rather than making it out like we're doing something wrong i'm going to let charlotte answer that so this is nothing this has nothing to do with um what people who you know being criminalized it's the they are concerned is we want to make sure that children, wherever they are, who are not educated in school, have the best possible education. Every child has a right to a good education. And we know that most children who are educated at home absolutely get that. But we want to make sure that that's true for all children. And there are other registers.

I do appreciate how difficult this is for some people, but there are other registers. For example, we register births, you know, so we do know where children, when children are born in this country. And this is simply an extension of that kind of universal oversight. So we know that where all children are educated in school, but actually knowing where those children are educated at home gives us more opportunity to offer support and to make sure that where that choice has been made we are offering as much as we can to make sure that all families who make that choice are able to offer their child the best education. Do you understand that Gabriella? Yeah I do I also think you know that when this consultation went ahead there were a lot lot of objections against it and a

lot of home educated parents and families put through their concerns about the register. But it seems like quite a lot of them were ignored. And regardless of what the home ed community said, this register was going to go ahead anyway. So it's almost like we weren't listened to. So it's nice to say that you're doing everything you can, but surely you should start by listening to us and taking on the points that we to. So it's nice to say that you're doing everything you can, but surely you should start by listening to us and taking on the points that we made. So what were the points? That, you know, a register won't, you know,

it won't solve the issue of finding other children who are home educated because, I think that's a question I'd like to put to Charlotte, is how are you going to find the children who are home educated but who aren't known to the council so that in all honesty that that's very difficult so we look obviously at children whose births registered in our each local authority and of those how many then register for a school place at you know at that age appropriate time but But clearly, children move around. So we follow up

where we can, where children haven't been registered for a school place. But if children have moved to a different authority, we wouldn't know that unless those parents come forward to tell us. So clearly, there will be a requirement or a duty on parents to register their children in the same way that most register their children for a school place. Now those who choose to electively home educate will register them as being electively home educated and in terms of that we will then use that information to contact them and say how can we help you, do you need any resources, is there any support that you want? Does your child need access to other services

that are often available through school? So it's about being as supportive as we possibly can, as I say, for all children. But the how and how we will know for the future will all be worked out in the next stage of the detail. Obviously, this is a very early response to the announcement today. Can you see, Gabriella, why in the next stage of the detail. Obviously, this is a very early response to the announcement today. Can you see, Gabriella, why in the interests of some possibly more vulnerable children,

this could be a way of protecting them or tracking them to see if they're getting a suitable education? I think so. But, you know, you use the term sort of tracking and you say that, Charlotte, you say that, you know, that you're going to be supportive of home-educated families and this register will do it and you'll help by providing resources and support. But, you know, councils and local authorities already have their own home education officers and they already offer this support and there already is registers on a local level. So I don't quite see why the National Register would do it. But more importantly, the local authorities often abuse the powers that they have by you know

sort of demanding work when simply home educated families don't have to do it and rather than it being supportive it's more of a harassment i'll let you answer that and also um how is this different will this be different to what the system is in place now for children who are home educated? educating their child sometimes that's because they've taken them out of the school and obviously schools have a duty to make sure they know where those children go and that's an oversight of children you know for lots of good reasons really but it'll be those who move straight into elective home education from the point of starting reception or those who move into an authority who are already electively home educating and doing that very effectively. And the reason it's important to do it is because at the moment, most parents act really responsibly and they educate their child really well at home.

But for us, this is absolutely about the child's right to a good education. And for those who've chosen not to let their local authority know, some of those are absolutely delivering the best education for their child. But sadly, there is a small minority who don't. And they're the ones who concern us the most. And there are some challenges now from children and young people saying, why did nobody make sure that I had the right education? I was electively home educated and I've lost out. So that's what we want to stop. And we know that that's a really small minority,

but it is not the majority of those who are educated at home. But even that small minority, that really matters to us. Gabriella? Well, I think the point that you make about, you know, if you're home educated, you feel like you've missed out is totally misleading because home education, you don't have to follow the curriculum. And a lot of parents don't. They tailor the education to their child's needs. And for me, that was certainly the case because, you know, I explored subjects that I never would learn to score. I recently did a GCSE in astronomy, which they don't normally teach.

Lucky you. But you were known to the services. Your local authority knew that you were being home educated. Yeah, they knew that they were being home educated. We often got emails for yearly reports and stuff. But again, they kind of went, you know, they almost, at the time

because i'm now of not compulsory school wage at the time they weren't as you know demanding as they are now it feels like with the times that are changing there authorities are wanting more and more control over home education and they're not allowing home educated families to do home education properly because you feel like you're constantly looking over your back. You know, do we have to do this? Do we have to do that? But with such a huge increase since the pandemic, I think it's a 34% increase, the figure that's being mentioned,

don't you think that these larger numbers of children who are being home-educated might need something different, might need a register to try and keep up keep on top of what's going on i think so but i think the increase has been um over exaggerated and i think the question that you need to ask and i think i'd like to put charlotte is why are children and parents deregistering their children from school you say that you know home educated um children have said they've been lacking but you know you need to have a look at the school system because there's a reason why so many people are deregistering from the school system that means

that might be a broken system so why don't you look there before um taking control of home education so and i think that's a really important point and whenever a child deregisters from a school and moves into home elective home education those questions are always asked and we do gather that information and we look for any trends and themes so absolutely sometimes a child is simply not happy and not coping in that very large environment and from the parent's view and sometimes the child's view as happy and not coping in that very large environment. And from the parent's view, and sometimes the child's view as well, they think that this is going to be a better way forward for them. Sometimes people aren't comfortable with the choice of school that's been available to them. There are lots of reasons why those children move into an elective home education system and absolutely we know that a lot of the elective home education that's delivered is creative and brilliant and nobody wants to

change that at all what we do want to make sure is that every child has that good education and the opportunity to have that so for us this is about offering support and for the minority who aren't meeting their child's needs for a good education, having a clearer understanding of that and where necessary, yes, that would mean putting challenge into the system. We already do that where we need to, but this will enable us to oversee, hopefully, all children. And at the moment, we haven't got that in place. And I know that we will definitely be picking up with this and discussing it at a later date when we know when the register is coming into force and Gabriella you said you didn't think that you'd been listened to well you definitely have this morning so thank you Gabriella and thank you

Charlotte. 84844 is the number to text if you'd like to comment on anything you're hearing on the programme this morning. We've had a message in from someone saying we've been home educating our 13 year old since October due to extreme anxiety and undiagnosed ASD. Best decision we've ever made. She's the full, happy, content version of herself, engaged in family, social and church life, helpful and fulfilled. She'll take a couple of GCSEs each year until 11 until year 11 which just makes complete sense then she's planning on returning to school for a levels um we are also going to be discussing investments a little bit later i'd love to hear your texts and thoughts about that sally has messaged in to say my husband and i have invested in a delivery van and converted it into a lovely

camper van for our retirement we're currently enjoying a few days in dorset in a field in the middle of nowhere stunningly beautiful and i'm it's so nice that we are keeping you company in that camper van this morning um we have had um um moving on to the next story sorry about that um we've just over an over an hour before the opening ceremony of the 2022 Winter Olympics in Beijing, around 3,000 athletes from 91 nations will compete for one of the 109 gold medals on offer. So who are the women among the Great Britain British hopefuls? And what can we expect from the Chinese hosts with another Olympics during COVID? To help us navigate our way through this is four-time Olympian and BBC Ski Sunday presenter

Shemi Alcott and Katie Smith, Olympic reporter for BBC Sports. Welcome to you both. Katie, I'm going to come to you first. The opening ceremony will be coming from the Bird's Nest in Beijing, which we remember from the Summer Olympics of 2008. What have you been told about what we can expect? Yeah, it's mad, isn't it, to think 14 years ago it was now that we saw Christina Uruguay fly around the track to gold for Great Britain, Usain Bolt breaking the world record.

But as ever, this opening ceremony is going to be shrouded in mystery. What we do know is that we've got the same director that we had 14 years ago, Zhang Yimou, very famous in China, a film director. But what we think and what we're expecting is the tone to be quite different from that huge four-hour epic we had in 2008. 15,000 performers, loads of people remember it. There were drummers in their thousands in complete unison. It really was a cultural moment as well as a sporting one we know though the tone this time it's going to be a little different a little more muted we of course have to reflect on the last couple of years the pandemic that we've all been through but then the moment that everyone looks

forward to isn't it the uh the lighting of the flame we'll expect something stunning i'm sure but as ever we won't know until we see it of course so excited so excited because everyone loves an opening ceremony i love the winter olympics something so magical about it um Shemi this is the first time team GB will have a woman chef demission with Georgina Harland so tell us the chef demission what does that mean and what her role is and just how historic and important this is oh I think it's incredible I mean it's all about empowering women to to be who they want and to go into sport in a kind of business side and be the very best and she's a former athlete who has all this incredible personal insight into how to be the best in her form as an athlete and she's

bringing that all into her role as chef de mission and leading this team I think it's really important to have female role models we've shown in actually, that we have got incredible other role models who are doing the best in the sport. We've got Catherine Granger, the chair of UK Sport. We've got Barbara Slater, director of sport here at the BBC. And I think it's just, it really highlights that we need to be with the present, with this global movement of showing women

that they can be whoever they want to be, regardless of what they were born as. So it's just, I think it's amazing. And it has so many skills from bringing as an athlete who had so much success, you know, bronze medal in 2004. But then again, in 2008, two months before her games in Beijing, she was abruptly injured. So she was out of it. So she's been every single cycle of an athlete's movement, of an athlete's journey out of it. So she's been every single cycle of an athlete's movement, of an athlete's journey.

And I think that she's going to bring a huge amount of strength to the team. Let's talk about some of the women in the team, Shemi. There are three sets of siblings in Team GB, Izzy and Zoe Atkin, and Leonie and Michaela Gerken-Scofield. Tell us about them

and what they're going to be competing in. So Leonie and Michaela have already started their quest. They are mogul skiers. It's the first time for both of them at the Olympics. They have got a brother who's really, really strong in moguls as well, but he's out injured with a concussion. Actually, a twin with Leonie is Tom. They've actually already performed very differently. So it's quite a challenge for them. They've come to the Games. You know, they are a pair. They're a unit. You see all over social media they do everything together the highs and the lows and they've had a lot of injuries and already we've seen leonie have quite a big

disappointment in her first round she took a risk and didn't land and then kayla had a great first round they are still going forward to compete again but they're trying to kind of neutralize the excitement and the disappointment so they can support each other um but i'm really really hoping that's an amazing family dynamic in uh in slope style we've got izzy atkins who's actually pulled out of the big air because unbelievably she had a broken pelvis in december and she's back to commit to slope style and her her sister zoe is she's. She's back after a broken pelvis. I mean, that's the thing with Winter Olympics. Like these athletes, Summer Olympics is incredible.

We see the strongest, most dedicated athletes in the world. What you see in the winters is craziness. You see people ready to take risks, to put their bodies on the limit for the ultimate success. And Izzy is so confident in her run that she's decided to focus on the slope style with this pelvis injury. Obviously, she's not going to damage it more, but she's going to be living in pain. But that's the craziness that we have. You've got a few screws loose and you just

want to go out there and show the world that you can do anything if you commit to it. Well, that's why they're Olympians. Exactly. Katie, live sports started on Wednesday with the mixed curling GB team. Tell us about these early games. Yes, well, they've had a very strong start. It's their Olympic debut,

but would you believe they are actually world champions in this event? Jen Dodds and Bruce Mowat of Great Britain, they're both Scottish. They're actually childhood friends. They grew up playing curling together. So what an amazing moment to then reach the Olympic stage. They've played four of their round robin matches so far.

They've won three of them. They lost one as well. That was to Switzerland, who are the silver medalists from 2018. But they have beaten the defending champions, Canada. So looking really quite strong at the moment. You have to say they are one of our best medal hopes uh here for for the olympics and they've got five more round robin matches coming up they sit second in the overall standings at the moment and it's the top four who will then progress into the semi-finals and overall how strong is team gb going going into these olympics well i think this is a really

interesting question because i think in one sense we're as strong as we've ever been great britain we've got two sets of world champions the the mixed curlers i mentioned we've got charlotte banks uh who is the world champion in snowboard cross we've got this really exciting crop of young uh freestyle skiers across lots of different programs a lot of young athletes found through talent programs you know they've got nothing to lose and shemi's nodding her head there that's exactly what young athletes are like and you know we've got a medal target range of three to seven now sochi and pyongchang we won five medals team gb that was the best ever so that target range suggests uk sport are seeing something similar but i would say i think a key figure is missing and that's someone who's done it before and my mind springs to Lizzie Yarnold of course a two-time winner GB have won the skeleton gold at the last three

games we're not going to have that person there anymore and Shemi you're not I agree I think we are a small team but we are a mighty team and there's so much strength in sports that we haven't seen before where we've had success like the bo bobsleigh guys, I think they are so strong. Their ego and their strength is telling them they will be the best in the world. And they're going there to get gold. We're not talking about podiums. So the confidence within the team, the thread, is amazing.

And like you said, we might not have the Lizzie Yarnall, but what we have is hunger. And you've got Eve Muirhead, our flag bearers, and Dave Riding. They're going there. Mature athletes, fourth Olympics for both of them, in the we have is hunger. And you've got Eve Muirhead, our flag bearers, and Dave Riding. They're going there. Mature athletes, fourth Olympics for both of them in the form of their life. And they are ready to lead. And sometimes all we need is, we need an early medal.

We need an early medal to start snowballing that belief that Team GB can do it. Because when we've seen that in past games, there has been huge success after. Can we shine a light on Charlotte Banks as well? Can we talk about snowboard? We really should, shouldn't we? A, because it's so cool and she's so cool.

So tell us about her. I think it's really important, first of all, because she gets a lot of stick because people say that she left France to come to compete for Britain. The reason she's come to GB Snow Sports is because we provided a programme that she thought was the best in the world.

She came to us because she thought that would be a support system to help her shine. And has she shone unbelievably. Yeah, why are we complaining about that? We're not. It's just we have this thing where everyone needs to be born and bred in the UK. Well, that's very challenging in winter sports when the winter sports that a lot of them come participate in aren't on our doorstep here. She is an incredible athlete what

she does and her consistency with podiums and victory is amazing when you see the sport of border cross it's it's ruthless there's not only challenging terrain there's people against you bumping you trying to push you off she has a massive target on her back every race and yet she just shines she she flows through she has that incredible flow state on the course. She's also mentally so confident. I don't think the Olympics will faze her. I was just going to say for anyone who doesn't know, border cross, if you watch the Summer Olympics,

it's very similar to BMX style racing. So a lot of big jumps, sharp turns, obstacles in the way. And you race four asides. There's also quite a lot of crashing as well. So it's a really good one to watch. So it's going to be great to watch. And very quickly, how is everyone being kept safe? We are in COVID times.

There's been talk about the Winter Olympics bubble. Tell us a bit more about what's happening over there. Yeah, so there's a closed bubble out there. I think that we want to focus the attention away from that, partly because the athletes and their events should shine and they are there to compete. It doesn't matter the surrounding. And it's something they all used to. For the last year for qualification for many of them, they've been living in this world where

they're continuously testing and they're solo bubbling. And it's very, very similar. They're just trying to contain the spread of COVID. I think we've had 63 cases from athletes and team support staff so far, and 13 of them have been within this closed bubble. They're daily tested, and they're just trying to support everyone. I mean, it's so hard because a positive test at this stage, it's not like an injury. An injury is something you are choosing to take the risk with. This is a risk that is all around us.

But at the end of the day, these athletes, they want to compete, and they'll do everything they can, even if it is to semi-sacrifice some of that olympic spirit and that is why the opening ceremony tonight has never been more important to celebrate that olympic spirit the community the importance of the power of sport because they will be semi together they will be seeing each other whether it be on a big screen and going okay this is slightly more normal than usual you're so good i mean i'm just so excited just listening to you yes yes we are there and Shemi is woman's hour so uh from you you know you've got Georgina Harland who's at the helm you've got Eve Muirhead who's flying the flag we've talked

about we celebrated some of the women just how important is it when you were there as a team to have that female solidarity I mean for me massive because I was the only girl out there doing it. And I just, all I wanted was, all I saw was the Austrians and Norwegians have this huge team of friendship and athletes to share their emotions with, whether it's high and low. So the more, the more volume of depth we have, the more success we'll have. I just want to do a quick shout out for Kirsty Muir. She is a 17 year oldold and I'm going to tip her for a podium because she's so raw and so innocent and incredibly talented

that I don't think the Olympics is going to faze her. And someone like her who is a schoolgirl and going to the Olympics, that will inspire a huge amount of people in the UK

to take up sport, not just freestyle skiing, but everything. We'll be keeping an eye out for her. Thank you both for speaking to us and getting us so excited. Shemi Alcott and Katie Smith there everything. We'll be keeping an eye out for her. Thank you both for speaking to us and getting us so excited. Shemi Alcott and Katie Smith there.

And they'll be starting in about an hour's time, if you are interested in watching. And we won't be online there, so you can do what you like. Lots of you getting in touch with our story that we were discussing about a register for home-educated children that will be brought into force. We don't know when yet in England. Personally, says Kitty on Twitter,

I'm appalled a register has never been the case. Parents have to be accountable for the education they claim they'll provide. I'm aware the homeschool community disagrees. Someone else has been in touch to say a lot of children have moved to home education due to anxiety, autism, mental health needs. Schools are woefully ill-equipped

to deal with those things. And Carol says, bring back the home education welfare officer who monitored the applications for home education or children taken off role 84844 is the number to text we've had a response um from uh the education secretary nadim sadawi who says education is at the heart of this government's plan to level up as education secretary it's my priority to make sure every child gets the start in life they deserve which is why i'm announcing clearer guidance to help every school boost behavior and new legislation to create the first local authority register for children not in school not only this but our school rebuilding program

will ensure pupils can learn in state of the art facilities, giving them the best opportunity to thrive. Whatever your thoughts on this, we would love to hear them. Very appreciative of your messages. 84844 is the number to text. Now, big investment firms are missing out on up to £2.37 trillion of potential investments. I can't even fathom that figure. Why is this?

Well, because of their poor record in attracting female investors. It's a warning in a new report released this week from the giant investment bank BNY Mellon, which is headquartered in New York. Anne-Marie McCannon is the bank's chief client experience officer based here in London. And we're also joined by Sarah Turner, who's co-founder of Angel Academy, a network for mostly female angel investors. And they're going to tell us all about this.

Welcome to the programme, both of you. Let's start with you, Anne-Marie. When we say investors, who are we talking about exactly? Well, good morning. It's great to be here. Thanks, Anita. Really, we're talking about everyone. So we believe it's time to create a much more inclusive investment world. And this report went out, it was a global independent study. And as you said, what we established was that women do want to invest and they've got trillions that they can

add to global investing. And importantly, they said that they want to invest and they've got trillions that they can add to global investing. And importantly, they said that they want to invest in businesses that can have a positive impact on society. But there are some big challenges and barriers that are stopping women from investing today. And this expansive study really shows that those barriers are firstly income. We don't think that we earn enough to even consider investing. There's a perception that it's just for the high risk takers. And then finally, just 28% of women globally

said that they feel confident about investing. And we think that's actually a knock-on impact of the industry that I'm in, not engaging with women effectively. So women do need to act and take control of their own financial prosperity and well-being. But actually, the onus is also on us in the industry to change and evolve. I guess there is a perception that you need a lot of money to invest, don't you?

Well, yeah. I mean, globally, again, if we look at the study, women believe on average they need an additional $4, thousand dollars so that's about three thousand pounds uh here in the uk before they'll even consider investing and that's just not the case actually there are lots of different opportunities you can invest from as little as a pound in this country and if i look at our own company our minimum investment levels is around 50 pounds per month and so for regular investors you know that's a really great way to get started a little bit of money every month can make a really great way to get started. A little bit of money every month can make a really big difference over time. And you said that it isn't

about high risk, but it is about risk ultimately, isn't it? You are taking a risk with your money. And is that something possibly traditionally that women have been reluctant to do? Because traditionally, certainly we've been more prudent with our finances yeah i think we are you know we're certainly still perceived to be the caretakers in the family and as a result i think and actually studies have shown that women react completely differently to men even to the word risk uh you know it means fear and creates anxiety for us um but actually there are lots of different types of investment out there with all different types of risk profiles and risk levels. So the reality is it's about balance. And it's certainly

not as risky as women are perceiving it is today. And so those are some of the big challenges that we as an industry have to change and we have to overcome if we're going to enable women to connect much more. And because today we're just not talking their language yeah so is it about as simple as that the language just even the language around it is just not not addressing women yeah i absolutely believe that one of the other um things that we saw anita within the report and we interviewed 100 asset management firms like us um and 86 of them admitted today their default customer is a man um so they weren't even targeting women um and you know i was really personally surprised and astonished by that stat and so i

think as a result women are being met with imagery language um even words like an overemphasis on the word return um financial return and what we've heard from women quite clearly is they care much more about purpose beyond profit. They want their money to go into things that are going to have a bigger impact in society. It's not just about the return. And so we have to change that if we're really going to be able to connect much more effectively.

That's really interesting that it's over 80% that you're targeting men. Is that also because it's predominantly men that work in the industry? Well, it's a really good point because we absolutely need more women coming into this industry if it's going to change and and so one of the things that we want to do is really make sure that we connect with young girls much earlier on on money and investing it was some also really interesting geographical nuances in the report so if you look at brazil and india as an example

they had some of the highest confidence levels from around the world and what we established was they were having conversations with young girls much earlier about money and investing and that was having a really positive knock on confidence and also participation how fascinating that more women in india and brazil are investing i'm going to bring sarah, who's the co-founder of Angel Academy, into this. Sarah, tell us, so you are all about angel investors. Tell us what an angel investor is briefly before we talk about what you do. So an angel investor is an individual like me.

We've taken care of our basic financial needs. So we've made some of the straightforward investments. And for some of our investable money, we allocate it to investing directly into companies. So we find startup companies, and in our case at Angel Academy, we're focused on ones started by women. They're often not only employing more women in their own organizations, so affecting social change, but sometimes they have a specific social purpose as well, just to pick up on Anne-Marie's point. And we're investing money directly into those businesses. So it's a great way to connect directly with your capital, you have a relationship with the business, you see it from the early stage, you help it grow,

you put money in, you also advise them if you've got some special expertise that's relevant to the business. So it's a relatively high risk asset class. So it's something you need to approach carefully. So we work as a group of angel investors together to make sure that we're researching these companies very carefully. And we're careful about where we put our money. And your network... So the point about... Yes, sorry, go on. I'm sorry, yeah. No, no. very carefully and we're careful about where we put our money. And your network... Yes, sorry, go on. I'm sorry, yeah.

No, no. I was just going to say, picking up on the point about risk, you know, it's important we take risks in all areas of our lives, but it's important we understand what that risk is and we manage that risk and that's how to think about it. But without risk, there's no return. There's no growth on your capital. And you run a network for mostly female angel investors. So how did you go about attracting women? It's a good question. It's not easy. I started Angel Academy because I'd been doing

some angel investing. I went to these networks. I was the only woman in the room and it really surprised me. And I thought, hey, there must be more women out there that be interested in this. And I found this amazing statistic that actually women in the UK own almost half the wealth. So we're not participating because we don't have the money. It's because nobody's been talking to us about it. There are no networks that are talking to women. The industry, as you picked up on, is very largely male dominated. There's this whole language that exists that's been designed by men for men. And so women are just put off from this. Plus, you know, traditionally, we're less engaged with our money and often kind of, you know, taught to basically delegate financial decisions

to to men and and it's a real shame you know not only are our pension pots growing more slowly than men because we're investing less as a proportion of our own money um but we're not able to influence where those investments go and like anne marie was saying you know women have different priorities for their money yes it's important we see a financial return. But, you know, we can use our economic power to invest which businesses get our money. So, you know, you've got a platform now, just lots of our listeners, maybe they've never thought about investment, convince them, why should they do it? Why should they put their money into a pot and take the risk? Sarah, or either of you? Well, I just say it's incredibly stimulating. It's

enriching. You know, we're helping new businesses being built by young, often people who haven't done this before, and they're changing the world. So we're investing in businesses that are developing new technologies around medicine, environmental technologies, and all those sort of areas. I'm smiling, Sarah, because even that is a really interesting answer, I think, specifically designed for women, because you're telling them what they're going to get out of it, you know, who they're supporting, rather're supporting rather than I guess the bottom line which is you might make some money out of this Anne-Marie. Well we hope to make some money out of it and that is important not to forget that because that is the purpose of investing it's not charity but you know we want to have some fun and

we want to do some good along the way and And, you know, because the angel investment community is so male dominated, most of the money is going to men and men who are building businesses. So we are using our wealth to try and kind of level the playing field for female entrepreneurs. Sounds good to me. Thank you both very much for joining me this morning to talk about that. Anne-Marie and Sarah Turner. And I've been asking you about your investments. Jo says, I invested in five acres of ancient woodland and meadow. It's a win-win.

Protect the wood, have fun doing so. Do something with money that does nothing in the bank. And Helen says, around 12 years ago, I invested in two raspberry canes from a bargain high street shop. They now cover our small terrace garden here in Sheffield. And I look forward to picking them every year. best two pounds ever spent that is a proper investment

delicious thank you for your text 84844 is the number to text if you want to join in now if you search the words mummy bloggers on social media you'll find pages and pages on postpartum support groups ivf parenting styles and how to get through a tantrum and whilst of course it's these are all good things, but we are having more and more conversations and some mothers are choosing to look on the lighter side of things too. During lockdown, we saw a rise in women using social media to show that some elements of motherhood are worth laughing about.

I spoke to bloggers Molly Gudger and Louise Boyce earlier this morning and started by asking Molly about the kind of content she makes. I started off posting specifically about disability because I'm a wheelchair user. And as the pandemic started and hit, I felt like everyone was being very doom and gloom. So I kind of wanted to just kind of lighten it up a little bit. And now I pretty much post about anything that's in my head

and it can vary massively. And why is it important to post things that other than doom and gloom, what do you mean? I feel like everyone was obviously having a bit of a hard time. And for me personally, when I'm dealing with things that I find difficult or stressful or anxiety inducing, I will always make a joke. Do you think there was a lack of humour in the content

that was being made by mothers with, specifically with disability online? Yeah, I do a little bit, yeah. I mean, a lot of the time it can be very geared towards sort of shouting at people and telling people how to deal with us when I think the best thing that we can do is just be visible and just feel like we're here, you don't have to understand it, but that means we're not going to talk to you kind of thing. And I suppose humour is a good way to disarm people as well, isn't it? Yeah, it's what I've always done. I've been disabled since I was born.

So it instantly gets people on the back foot and it makes them realise that you're not just a two dimensional. You're not just the wheelchair, which is what they see and what they assume. But you're actually a fully fledged human being and you have a personality and it takes many people by surprise to be honest louise you're you started life as a model and then you know tell you explain you explain your instagram journey because uh you have 200 000 followers so what are your followers amazing isn't it amazing so good thank you it is it is bonkers because it happened really quite quickly um so yeah my story is I I started Instagram to better my modeling career I'm been modeling for 25 years and then I got pregnant had

a baby and it was almost like the industry was like okay you're done that's it bye-bye and and it does happen and you know fine well not fine um and I realized that I had to join social media this is going back to like 2016 where you it was it was more common to have a social media account and to use it as a platform to market your business or market yourself and then of course the pandemic hit and everything stopped like for lots of people we all lost our jobs like I had absolutely no work whatsoever and I found myself at home with my three children and my husband in our in our quite small flat in London um and felt very very anxious um about what the future held. We didn't know what was going to happen with this pandemic.

We were thrown into homeschooling, which we'd never done before. I'm not a teacher. You know, it tests everything, your patience, everything. And then I found myself really anxious and nervous and worried. And in the meantime meantime I downloaded a social media app called TikTok which I'd never really been on before oh how useful of you and um and I found myself laughing a lot the content on there was really funny um the way that some people did stories or videos about the pandemic and stuff just made it

a more light-hearted and I found myself laughing a lot and then I thought I'm gonna give this a go because if it's helping me it might help other people out there especially mothers with small children who were going through this whole new chapter of motherhood, which I struggled with. I've got friends who struggled with it. And so I just started making funny videos, thinking nothing of it. Specifically about being a mum, right? Yeah, about being a mum and all the everyday, mundane, monotonous stuff we go through as mothers, especially in a lockdown and I realized that they were getting shared and people like them the more I did more and more and then started making

up my own characters and and and it's bizarre because I started Instagram to better my my modeling career and now I'm known for the lady with the silly little hands yes explain that for people who haven't seen your Instagram Molly you obviously have seen your little hands yes explain that for people who haven't seen your instagram molly molly you obviously have seen your little hands molly i'm such a fan to be honest like i mean these ones tell us about these the queen you know it feels like meeting the queen brilliant oh my god that's hilarious um when i had my third child a friend of mine gave me these hands as a gift to say, you're going to need an extra pair of hands. And I was like, well, you could just give me a bottle of wine.

Okay, let me explain. They're like two tiny little, I guess, doll hands, maybe a bit bigger. What are they made out of? They're plastic and you can put your finger in the bottom of them and then you just roll your jumper up and then you have this hand, which looks like a child's hand. And they were just stuck in my drawer for ages. just roll your jumper up and then you have this hand which looks like a child's hand and they were just stuck in my drawer for ages and then when we were thrown back into homeschooling again

for the second time it was this time last year it was cold everyone was over it and over homeschooling and it was really really tough and I found myself getting really worked up and then I thought okay I need to turn this around because if I'm feeling like this I'm sure most of the nation with small children who are working and feeling like this and then I thought I'm going to do a video about this and I did originally ask my kids to uh to be the kid to act themselves out and obviously they were like no not doing it um so and then I remembered I had these hands and I fished them out and I and I shot the mummy watch video and the reaction a reaction was just beyond what I thought it would be um and why do you think that was what do you think you tapped into it's just relatable um and funny and And I think at the time there was so many,

I'm talking to my friends who've got children and they were saying, I just can't get anything done. They were like, look at this, look at this. Can you help me with this? And it's just ongoing. You have no time for yourself. And so I just thought, you know what? I'm just going to have to make something funny out of this.

Do you think it's a sense of relief as well from other women when you see somebody who just is you know that there's a funny thing that you've done where it's your child eating mud and it's like you know child one eating mud and you just take him to the hospital child two eating mud and it's on child three you're asking them if they want some ketchup on the side you know yeah yeah and I think well my mum's always said that to me as well she's always like oh god you're the third child whatever you don't you know it's fine and with you with your first you're always so worried and so I'm just creating videos that women mothers talk about or go through and just making it okay and that you're normal and um we're all we're all in this yeah i mean exactly the same to to

molly can you relate to that for you as a full as a woman in a full-time wheelchair user and a mum how important is it for people to see the highs and lows of what you go through it's so important i think a lot of people use social media to only share the upsides of their life and it can give you a really skewed view about you start to think well what am I doing wrong why am I having such a bad day these people have got pristine houses and their children love posing for photos and looking perfect in their beige outfits and it's like well why why is my kid covered in grime that came from nowhere and my house is horrible I look like I've been dead for three weeks

and he's just shouting at me for no reason. I don't know why is this my day and that's theirs? But the reality is this was probably their day yesterday and they just didn't tell me. They put their beige outfits on, especially for Instagram. And what's the sort of response that you've had, Molly? What the reaction you get i get a lot of messages going i really needed this today yeah and that always makes me feel good because it's this it's they they know that it's collective

experience and motherhood it's hard and not every day is wonderful. And they know that even though I'm laughing about it, they know they get the joke. They know where that joke came from. And they know that maybe it's come from somewhere. You know, the day's been tough. You might as well laugh at it. It's funny now. It may not have been then.

You've had some incredible reactions though, haven't you, Molly? You've really inspired people through what you post. Someone had a baby. I can attribute a baby to my page. They sent me a message and said, I saw your Instagram. You made me believe that I could do it. And now I'm three months pregnant.

Oh, that's amazing. Someone actually had a whole person. And my child has been born. They didn't call him Molly. I'm not offended isn't that incredible and how about the reaction that you get boys um it's all very very positive i get lots of messages um saying thank you for making me smile thank you for making me laugh for the first time in ages. I did a video on my husband and all the annoying things that he does. And I had a few women saying thank you because I was about to leave my husband. But now I know that all men are the same. Look at you, you're saving marriages.

You're bringing people together. There's babies being born from your Instagrams. This is amazing. You're super women. Changing the world. You are changing the world. Louise, I have to ask, is this your full-time job now? Where do you have the time?

Because yours are really intricately produced. They're edited. Oh, thank you. Yeah. It has, I have managed to make a career out of this, which is wonderful. So I'm still doing the modelling, but I now make videos at home for brands and put it online.

And that is what it's wonderful for me because it means that I can be around for the kids more. Whereas with the modeling, it's all very much you're away from home. Sometimes you're overseas for a week and, you know, the mom guilt kicks in and it's, you know. But so I have a mix of both now and it is great. And I actually, I really enjoy it. And I didn't know that I could do this, actually, which is bizarre. I didn't think I had this in me. It's opened up a whole new career for you. You know, got natural comedic talent.

And how about you, Molly? We're actually talking about, we've been talking about investment and finance on the programme. So can you make money from this? Are you making money from it? Oh, yeah, I do. I do. All right. I mean, I get some paid ads from brands and I've met some amazing people.

Yeah, so you're making it work for you. So what's your next post going to be? Oh, I don't know. Probably about this. Me too. Yes. I was on Woman's Hour. Oh, my God.

I was hoping you'd say that. Now, February's edition of Vogue is out. And Vogue says it's making history. It's a portrait of nine black models. They're all of African descent. They're highly stylized photos, Vogue say, were to celebrate the success of a new generation of African model in high-end fashion.

And the cover's been put together by Vogue's first black editor-in-chief Edward Ennenfeld together with Brazilian photographer Rafael Pavarotti but the reaction has been mixed. To discuss it I am joined by Chelsea Matada who's the arts and culture editor of an online magazine called Guap. She's also worked in the luxury fashion industry in the past. Morning Chelsea. Describe the cover for for us yes so the cover features nine dark-skinned black models um they sit closely together on what looks like a blue bench they are dressed in all black wearing european wigs and are staring into the camera void of expression the background is an off-brown color with the iconic Vogue logo in blue. The issue is titled Fashion Now and, like you said,

aims to celebrate the rise of African models in the fashion industry. And what do you think of it? I didn't... I didn't like it. I didn't like it. Why not? My first thought was stunning because, of course, nine dark-skinned black models on the cover of British Vogue is an amazing moment for Black women all over the world. Unfortunately, as I began to notice the art direction, the styling choices, the lighting,

it was so dark and ominous and obscure that it didn't bring out the beautiful, beautiful undertones and distinguishing features of the models that were featured. And for a cover that had the intention to celebrate African beauty, it was the most Eurocentric version of African beauty that I had seen in recent years. I mean, it's obviously very stylised, and there will have been a decision about that. What do you think it's trying to tell us?

I think this kind of imagery of black people is nothing we haven't seen before. The models on the cover have naturally deep skin tones. However however British folk purposely darkened their skin tones in editing. The photographer's style, Raphael Pavarotti, is often in this way, using vivid colour palettes to contrast with the darkness of his model's skin. However, there is a trend in the way that Europeans capture black models and it exotifies us and exploits black people in art and photography. Unfortunately, as beautiful as the imagery can be, it can also be quite problematic. What do you think the image is trying to say to us, though? I think this image tells us that black is only beautiful when it's extreme. It tells us that black is only beautiful when it's super tall, super thin, super dark.

And it's as far as diversity will go when it comes to the fashion industry. It tells us if black is going to be celebrated, then we should be grateful to be on the cover, even if the representation of us is in the most Eurocentric way ever. But Fummi Fetto, who's the contributing editor to Vogue, wrote a piece that goes alongside the cover, says for an industry long criticised for its lack of diversity as well as for perpetuating beauty standards seen through a Eurocentric lens, this change is momentous. Isn't this a momentous moment?

Isn't this Edward Ennenfull and the team at Vogue saying African models have arrived? It's their moment. So this representation of black women, the representation of black women in high end fashion is far and few between. When we are represented, we are either extremely light skinned or extremely dark skinned. Often black models will have to conform to certain beauty standards that are as close as possible to their white counterparts. Thin bodies, small noses, European styled hair. There doesn't seem to be any room for true diversity amongst black women in high-end

fashion in the way that there are for Caucasian women for example. On the cover of British Vogue I see nine beautiful black African models whose identities have been completely homogenized to fit whatever mold of beauty those behind the scenes were attempting to achieve. So unfortunately, I don't think it's as momentous as British Vogue could have made it. Well, I'm sure we'll be seeing a lot more of these models. Tell us very quickly, Adut Akech, someone we should look out for, right? Yes, Adut Akech. She's only 22 years old and she is taking the fashion industry by force.

She's originally from South Sudan. And in the last couple of years, she actually appeared in a 2019 British Vogue issue with the guest editor, Meghan, Duchess of Sussex. She won model of the year in 2019. And I think Adut Akech is a person who's paving her own way in the fashion industry and I wish her and all the other nine models in the in the cover all the best of luck in the upcoming fashion shows. Chelsea it's been great to talk to you about this I'm sure

we'll get you on the program again at some point so we have had a statement from Vogue saying we asked British Vogue why they decided to darken the models on the cover of the issue. We also asked them whether the models were asked for consent. And they said, British Vogue's February 2022 cover story celebrates the African models of the moment in a striking and high fashion shoot, which involved the models throughout the creative process. And just like that, we've run out of time. That's all for today's Woman's Hour. Join us again next time. The deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in.

Available now.