Woman's Hour - Christmas Parties, Afghan Families in Hotels, Hypothalamic Amenorrhea

Episode Date: December 8, 2021

Allegra Stratton has found herself at the centre of a political storm. ITV footage shows her rehearsing a TV news conference and dealing with tricky questions about Christmas parties during covid lockdowns. Staff are laughing and joking. We speak to political journalist Pippa Crerar, who broke the original story of the Downing Street party as well as other gatherings. We also get reaction from Jo Lawrence who has a catering company, and whose Mum sadly died of covid last year.We talk about women in chess with Woman Grandmaster and nine time British woman's chess champion Jovanka Houska and Aga Milewska, Director of Women’s Chess at the English Chess Federation.An Afghan mum, who's in a hotel with her family, is having to move to her third hotel since she got here a few months ago. We find out what life is like for her and her children, and speak to Judith Dennis from The Refugee Council about why this constant moving is happening. We hear from Tanya Borg whose daughters are still in Libya, after their father took them there in 2015. She said: "It breaks my heart. Why is nobody doing anything? I'm going to try and get them back until I die." Tanya was granted full custody by British and Libyan courts, but the girls are still missing and thought to be with their grandmother. The writer, musician and mum of three, Izzy Judd, tells us about her past disordered eating and obsession with 'clean' diets which she believes were problems when she was trying to get pregnant. Dr Fatima Husain, a Consultant Obstetrician and Gynaecologist, explains more about the condition of Hypothalamic Amenorrhea.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme, peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, I'm Emma Barnett and welcome to Woman's Hour from BBC Radio 4. Hello, good morning, welcome to the programme. The row over the Downing Street Christmas party at the height of lockdown last year has intensified with the leak of a video to ITV showing the Prime Minister's top media aides joking about it in a mock press briefing. Very unusually, no ministers have been made available to programmes this morning, but Boris Johnson himself will have to answer at noon at Prime Minister's questions over the dispatch box.

He'll obviously have to answer to Sir Keir Starmer, leader of Her Majesty's opposition, and to the House. Shortly, you'll hear from the woman who broke the original story about this party, the Daily Mirror's political editor, Pippa Criara. She happens to be the journalist who broke the Barnard Castle story about Dominic Cummings. But what I want to ask you today is based on the words of the Conservative backbench MP, Sir Charles Walker, who told my colleagues this morning on the Today programme that this leaked video, which you'll hear a part of shortly,

makes it very, very difficult now for the government to have anything but voluntary restrictions on people's mixing and mingling. He said, quote, people if required in law not to meet friends and relatives will say, look, it didn't happen last year at number 10 Downing Street. Do you agree with him? Has news of this party made you think back to what you were doing or what you weren't doing last Christmas and made you think differently about any future rules or laws that may be required with the latest strains of COVID-19? In short, has this potential behaviour made you think about yours? 84844, text will be charged to your standard message rate or get in touch with me on social media. We're at BBC Women's Hour or email me

through the Women's Hour website we're also going to be hearing from somebody in the events business about what happened to their business during the various lockdowns and their reaction

to the latest in the Downing Street Christmas party gate as it's become also on today's programme in the last 24 hours much has been made of the chaos surrounding

the government's process to evacuate those Afghans to whom Britain owed a debt of responsibility. But what of the living conditions of those that the government did manage to rescue, the priority of which are women and girls? We speak to one woman who's about to change hotels with her children and husband in the UK for the third time. And women and chess. As a keen player myself, we are going to learn the ultimate moves today. But first, some feel it's checkmate for the Prime Minister, who's under renewed pressure to admit that a Christmas party was held in Downing Street last year after a video emerged which showed senior staff laughing and joking about it. The recording of a mock briefing by Boris Johnson's then press secretary,

Allegra Stratton, has been obtained by ITV News. Here she is rehearsing for a televised news conference with questions put by fellow number 10 media aide, Ed Oldfield. I've just seen reports on Twitter that there was a Downing Street Christmas party on Friday night. Do you recognise those reports? I went home. Hold on, hold on. Would the Prime Minister condone having a Christmas party?

What's the answer? I don't know. It wasn't a party, it was cheese and wine. Is cheese and wine all right? It was a business meeting. I'm joking. It is recorded. It was a fictional party? It was a business meeting. I'm joking. It is recorded. This fictional party was a business meeting.

And it was not socially distanced. One more and then we'll... One more. Ask anybody have any questions today. There you go. The mock press conference that was. Let's talk now to Pippa Criara, the political editor of the Daily Mirror, the journalist who broke the original story of this party and has details, I should say, of another Christmas party on today's front page of her paper. Good morning.

Good morning, Emma. Yes. Just to keep us up to date, who's the latest or what's the latest party that you've uncovered? Well, we discovered that Gavin Williamson, when he was Education Secretary, held a bash at the Department for Education inside the department last year on December the 10th, when London was in tier two restrictions, which banned any mixing with other households, any social mixing with any other households, and that they gathered in the cafe area of the department and had wine and canapes and a short speech by Gavin Williamson. This, of course, was when over a million children were off school, many of them as a result of self-isolation, as a result of the pandemic. So it's, yeah, that's our front page today. And has Gavin Williamson admitted this or what's been the response on that particular party?

So the Department for Education, and this is really striking, Emma, because while we've had obfuscation and denials from Number 10 all week about the Christmas party that we revealed this time last week, the Department for Education has put its hands up and said that the event did take place. They've offered their justification for it, but nevertheless, they've admitted that it happened. And they have said that it probably wasn't the best time, it wasn't the wisest idea to have held a gathering like that. And maybe it's easier for them because Gavin Williamson is no longer in post than it is for those at number 10 to admit it. But it is very striking to me that they've decided to be much more transparent about it.

Is it in doubt whether there was at the other Downing Street party that we're hearing joked about in this mock press conference? Not to me. I mean, I've spoken to several sources that were there, as have other colleagues across Fleet Street and in the BBC and other broadcasters. I think what it comes down to is how you define a party. And in my mind, if you have a group of 40 or 50 people crowded into a medium sized room, probably not much bigger than a lot of people's sitting rooms at home, cheek by jowl, drinking, eating nibbles, playing party games, wearing Christmas jumpers and doing a secret Santa until well past midnight. I think in most people's book that would be defined as a

party. Number 10, some number 10 clearly think that they can get away with thinking, describing it as a gathering or an event and therefore somehow circumventing the rules. But the rules are quite specific. There are only certain circumstances in which you'd be allowed to meet in this way. One would have prohibited any mingling, which clearly took place given the size of the room. And the other would have been if there was a reasonable excuse for meeting work colleagues socially. And I don't think that anybody would argue that Christmas party could be deemed as a reasonable work excuse. Boris Johnson has repeatedly said no COVID rules were broken. His spokesperson denied earlier on Tuesday this week that any event took place, asked about the video Downing Street, or spokesperson insisted it hasn't changed

its view. There was no Christmas party. COVID rules have been followed at all times. I suppose now with the Prime Minister being the next voice that we will hear from the government at 12 o'clock today at Prime Minister's Questions, unless anything changes, what can he say? What do you think he needs to say and what's going to happen next? I think he's in a very difficult position because if he puts his hand up and says yes there was a party after all whether or not they try and sort of wriggle out of law-breaking you know they sort of come up with some excuse which which they suggest means that party was justified. I don't think the public would see that because the spirit of the rules would still have been very much broken and it would have underlined the fact that his number 10 has been lying about it now

it's very interesting if you look at the minister's responses throughout the week they generally tend to have been that the guidelines were followed at all time not that the party didn't take place number 10 however on two occasions specifically said that no party took place that makes it very difficult if he puts his hands up and confesses to it then effectively he's saying yes we lied and that's really an untenable position for a prime minister. I think what's more likely, given some of the anger that we're now seeing on the Tory backbenches, is that they'll try and again to sort of make some sort of announcements, such as Simon Case, the cabinet secretary, investigating, making some sort of inquiry into what happened. He'll say, you know, this happened

at number 10, but it wasn't, but I didn't know anything about it. You know, the top civil service in the country will look into it, they'll hope to drag it on, and will hope that media attention disappears, and they're able to kind of sort of quietly move on. I think that's probably the most likely scenario that they'll announce an investigation. But the problem is, for the Prime Minister, is if he if he says look i wasn't there myself at this christmas party it might have happened on my watch and in my my number 10 but i wasn't there myself he we also revealed last week that he was he was at a party on november the 27th the leaving due for one of his top team at which he gave a speech in number 10 in the same room equally crowded also drinks and you know i have sources

saying that and other newspapers have subsequently had separate sources saying that that party went ahead. So it's very hard for him to distance himself from that event, which took place during the second lockdown, when even stricter rules applied. This will be something that many in the Westminster bubble are saying the Prime Minister has to take notice of because when you've got hosts of non-news programmes such as Anton Deck last night on I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here, referencing that ITV leaked, or that video rather leaked to ITV and making jokes about the Prime Minister and parties,

it's not just a Westminster bubble story. You've got experience of this because you are the woman who broke the story of Dominic Cummings, his former most senior aide, travelling to Barnard Castle to test his eyesight at a time of the strictest lockdown. And is this reminiscent of that in terms of the way that the government are playing it at the moment? I think in two ways it is, Emma. First of all, that sort of dismissal of the initial story saying, well, no one cares. I mean, Dominic Cummings himself emerged from his house the next day and said well you know nobody's really bothered but no one really cares about this it's a Westminster bubble issue and of course as we as history has shown us people did care very much about it and the same with this

story you know literally a week today I was walking around the corridors of Westminster and a couple people say to me well you know good story but I don't see where it goes from here or you know a bit Westminster bubbly isn't it or it was a year ago and you know even hands off even even I kind of thought well I thought it was an important story and you know even hands off even even I kind of thought well I thought it was an important story and I was determined to plug away at it but I didn't really expect it still to be making the front pages and the you know leading the bulletins um a week on and I think what probably people underestimate in this place I'm sitting in Westminster right now is the strength of feeling in the country about what happened last year and I think it's kind of

reopened old wounds for a lot of people that especially as we look down the barrel of Christmas again well exactly I mean we're in a very sort of similar position in some regards obviously we've got the vaccine which is brilliant and will save many many lives and also hopefully mean that we can see our loved ones at Christmas but it reminds people of the times of you know grandparents not being able to see their grandchildren people not being able to see elderly relatives in care homes. I mean, last Christmas was really tough for a lot of people. And I think it's reminded people of that. Plus, as you say, we're in a position now with a still uncertainty over the spread of the Omicron variant. And if it is as transmissible as people say, regardless of whether it has a severe impact, either because of the vaccine or because it's not as dangerous

as previous variants. Nevertheless, if it spreads fast enough, there will still be many, many people affected by it who end up in hospital and we end up in a very difficult position in terms of the government making decisions about restrictions. So the uncertainty now, the reminder of this time last year, I think is really, really problematic for people. There's also a poignancy and an irony that on the day that Sajid Javid was expected to be out the health secretary doing what's called the morning round of interviews today it's the year anniversary since the first woman have to be a woman first person had a vaccination outside of the testing scenario and you know it's meant to be about leading by example I suppose and getting the the people on

board with what needs to happen next you know I've just got a message in saying this latest proof of government lies and double standards means I believe nothing number 10 tells us and do not feel inclined to follow any rules they impose on society. I will make my own judgment on how my behaviour affects wider society. We know that there is a push to get boosters in arms and actually get jabs in arms that haven't had them at all yet. Yeah, and and i think ultimately that's what this is all about it undermines the government's public health messaging that happened with the barnard castle um story as well uh not just the initial transgression but the then sort of you know ministers doubling down and denying and digging in you know as ever emma as we know

we journalists know it's often the cover-up that gets you rather than the initial event and it feels very similar to that time now. We've had a week of ministers obfuscating. I was going to just say, how are you being treated as the woman at the heart of this in terms of the journalist side? How are you treated by Number 10 at the moment? It's quite odd, I suppose, to see that video last night with some of the people you would have been dealing with as media representatives. There's a professional respect. And, you know, I don't think that they would, I think it'd be wise enough, even if they had the inclination,

and I don't think that they have the inclination to sort of, you know, cut me off or, you know, cause trouble for me. I mean, that's just not, that's not the way it works. It wasn't the way it worked after Barnard Castle as well. You might get the odd comments, but, you know, I'm more than capable

of standing up for myself should that happen. Unfortunately, it hasn't, and nor would I expect it to. Well, you're the woman to read right now, Pippa. Thank you very much. By the mirror. Thank you very much. Come on, come on. Other papers are available.

But on that point, I believe you're going to be on the media show later with my colleagues here on Radio 4. Pippa Carrara, thank you very much. Political editor of the Daily Mirror behind the Party Scoop and, of course, the Barnard Castle Scoop. Let me just talk now to Jo Lawrence, chef and owner of Jo's Kitchen, an event catering company based just outside of Edinburgh. Jo, we began this conversation with that leaked video to ITV. What was your reaction when you saw some of Boris Johnson's most senior media aides joking about some Christmas parties that were meant to have happened in Downing Street last Christmas? Good morning. Yes, utterly horrified, really, and pretty much speechless, having been brought to our

knees by not even being able to cater for the smallest of events last year, with absolutely zero financial help. The fact that we could do nothing, and yet again, the government could do whatever they wanted, it cuts really deep really deep actually and is very hurtful. I mean, from the business side of this, of course, we've been hearing from the families of those who were bereaved as well this morning. But from the business side of it, I imagine it was a very up and down year last year. And actually when perhaps you were hoping to pick up again around Christmas, we know what happened. Yeah, there weren't really many ups to last year and actually when perhaps you were hoping to pick up again around Christmas we we know what happened yeah there weren't really many ups to last year and we lost over 700,000 pounds by not being able to cater for anything at all um not even the smallest of parties obviously we could do um and we did have a little bit of hope that we might get a bit of money back in the bank

and be able to do something around about Christmas and then obviously that was taken from us as well and it also affected me personally because i lost my mother during covid and wasn't able to spend time with my family either um i mean it's it really it's quite hard to find the words you said you do sound incredibly moved actually moved by anger and sorrow perhaps yeah no absolutely sorry and absolutely to oppose it's i really honestly i'm sorry when she told me earlier i found the words and i'm really struggling to find the correct words to deal with this situation um and the thought that it could possibly we still don't know if we're going to be able to work right up till Christmas this year. The uncertainty of it is very hard. Having managed to survive, unlike many, many of my colleagues who lost their businesses, we did find a route to survival.

But we are hanging on by our fingernails. And if we lose it again this year, especially in light of the fact that Downing Street can clearly do whatever they want, it's a very bitter pill to swallow indeed. I also imagine, as you say, with friends and colleagues, this is something that has reached them. Sometimes stories, as I was just saying, don't in the Westminster kind of bubble of political reporting, but this one does seem to have cut through to a lot of people. Yeah, it's pretty much all we've been talking about.

Jo Lawrence, I wish you well. And I hope that you are able to keep with those gigs that you've got in the run-up to Christmas. Perhaps we'll talk again. All the best to you. And thank you for finding some of those words. But I do appreciate how difficult it is. Jo Lawrence, chef and owner of Jo's Kitchen,

an event catering company based in Edinburgh. Susanna says, it won't change her behaviour. If we have to go into lockdown over Christmas again, then I would simply to protect those I love. If number 10 choose to flout the rules and put their friends and family at risk, then more fool them. Jan says, there are no words to describe my anger and frustration at yet

again the Conservatives disobeying their own rules. My husband spent the last 10 days of his life alone in hospital in 2020 due to government restrictions with only an hour visit from me on Christmas Day. I doubt we were the only family to experience and suffer in this way. Meanwhile, the Conservatives partied on at number 10, and I suspect in other places yet to be discovered, says Jan.

Jan, I'm incredibly sorry about what you shared there with your husband. Another one here, anonymous. I'm against further compulsory measures, full stop. But the Downing Street Party reports are absolutely the last straw. No more rules. We are adults. If you give us details of the risks, we will make our own minds up. And one more here.

I didn't see my entire family for 18 months because of COVID and spent Christmas last year on my own in my flat. This government is an absolute disgrace. And if restrictions are brought in limiting mixing in private settings, I will be ignoring it. I can no longer respect the authority of a government that continues time and time again to demonstrate they are the exception to every rule. Keep your messages coming in please on whether this will change your behaviour. 84844 is the number you need to text and sentiment, emotions, frustrations, all sorts running very high this morning. So do get in touch and this is the place you can share them.

Now, two men are currently slugging it out for the title of world chess champion in a series of nail-biting matches. One of them, Norway's Magnus Carlsen, who's defending his title. And when he was asked why he thought there weren't more women amongst the top-ranked chess players, he suggested it was largely down to culture. Well, as the Chess World Championship continues in Dubai, we wanted to discuss how to change that culture, and who better to ask than two women

who know their way around a chessboard. Woman, grandmaster and nine-time British women's champion, Jowanka Hauska, who's commentating on that big match being played at the moment, and Aga Milewska, who's played at a high level in Poland and now based here and has recently been elected director of women's chess at the moment. And Aga Milewska, who's played at a high level in Poland and now based here and has recently been elected Director of Women's Chess at the English Chess Federation.

They joined me earlier and I actually started by asking about the impact of the popular Netflix drama The Queen's Gambit about a female chess champion has had on the women's game. Oh, it's had a definite impact. I mean, in terms of the amount of women playing and women inspired to learn the game, it's increased tremendously. And I also have to say it's been an impact on the women

who actually play chess, because for the first time ever, we had journalists ringing the Federation and asking to speak to the women who play chess and actually interested in hearing their viewpoints. So, I mean, I thought the Queen's Gambit itself was marvelously produced, you know, and it was a very iconic TV series. And I'm really happy that chess was part of that central theme. Aga, did you enjoy it or were you having a look at if they were actually playing a decent game? It was absolutely stunning and it was really nice to see finally chess environment in the movie,

which is not happening often. No, I know it's a very rare thing, which is why I wanted to start with that. But I thought we'd get on to what is still the block about more women, more girls taking it up. Ivanka, what do you make of what Magnus Carlsen said last year when he said chess societies haven't been very kind to women and girls and there needed to be a culture change? It's a good question. And I mean, it's a big question as to why the amount of women playing is so low.

I mean, currently, I think the number is around 10%. And that's just not good enough. And that has an impact on chess players and chess culture in general, because it's not easy for a woman when you're the only one in the room. And so you have to be very vocal, you have to be very strong. And this can have a lot of impact. When it comes to culture changes, I mean, I definitely think there is something there. When it comes to culture, you know, traditionally, we do have this stereotype that women are meant to be kinder, women are meant to be gentle, and not killers on the chessboard. So women who do take up chess, you have to remember, it is a sport.

It is more or less like a mental street fight. It can be difficult for them. For me, it's just about the numbers. I really do think that by having so few women in the game, it becomes a deterrent. And it certainly blocks our road to improvement. I was a girl who set up a chess club at school. I'm going to tell you that at this point. It was an all-girls school though, a secondary school.

I know that's not always the answer, Arga. What do you think it is to get more people in, more girls? Yeah, I think if they would be invited to play chess, they would definitely do. And for example, we can ask families to join to chess as well. Then the girls, they will come together with them. Yeah, I mean, that could definitely be a way to it. And I think, you know, I was taught by a family member

and that's certainly one of the ways that I was interested in it. But I suppose taking it to that next level, Ivanka, is also what we're interested in. So you see the greater representation on the global stage. Just for you, Ivanka, what was it for you that got you into chess? Why do you enjoy it? Well, I have to be honest here. As a woman, I've had a lot of opportunities that I wouldn't necessarily get if I was a male. I've traveled the whole world. I've been able to make it a profession. And now I'm more or less a professional chess commentator. So you'll see me commentating

on the chess 24 broadcast where there is equal gender representation which i'm very very proud to be part of um when it comes to just chess in general i do agree with argo that we have to make it more fun and we have to focus on chess at all levels we have to think of it as levels. We have to think of it as a hobby. We have to think of it as a sport. We have to think of it as a profession. And when you have female participation on all those levels, I think then we can talk about

breaking those barriers down, just smashing it. When you commentate on chess, I mean, tell us a bit of that. If someone's never heard it before, I mean, are you actually talking about each of the pieces? Give me a bit of the language of someone's never heard it before. I mean, are you actually talking about each of the pieces? Give me a bit of the language of that.

What does it sound like? This CHESS24 global broadcast is actually something completely different because normally when we communicate about chess, we're kind of talking about moves. We stick to the chess notation. But this particular broadcast, we try to bring emotion to it. For instance, if a knight goes to the edge of the board, traditionally knights are not great at the edge of the board.

So we'd be like, oh, my God, he's just moved his knight to the edge of the board. This is sensational stuff. Why are they breaking the rules? And we really amp up the drama. And the broadcast I'm doing is aimed at everyone from beginners to people who just like stumbled upon the stream. So it is a bit radical to change the language like that. But I have to say it's a lot of fun. And it does seem

to be working. We seem to be bringing in new members to the game. Like one time in the summer, I was approached by a lady and she said, she stopped me and she said, are you part of the chess broadcast? And I said, yes. And she said, I actually love your show. I didn't play chess before, but my boyfriend did. And I started watching the show and I got sucked in by the drama and the excitement and the personalities. So I was like

oh thank you brilliant I mean you know I love any sport that you can do sitting down as well right you know that's got to appeal uh the mental side of it of course being being the part that that hurts and is stressful and uh the drama but I love the idea of look at that night go look at it at the side of the board and thinking of it in that way. What do you say when people have said that there is sexism in the game and that can be off-putting? Is that your experience? There is sexism in chess. There's no doubt about that. The thing is, though, it kind of hampers up the message that women want to portray, which is, you know, you have to be positive. To move those mountains to inject the funds, people don't want to hear this negative image all the time. And

women are constantly forced to protect any kind of positive action that they receive. So for instance, my friend won the English Women's Championship. And instead of being congratulated, she had to fend off all kinds of questions about why women's chess exists. So sometimes this issue of sexism does hamper the whole progress debate and women are being forced to defend their position within the chess society as opposed to the real focus which is let's improve the amount of people playing, let's improve the standard and let's compete on a global scale. And that's my personal experience. Yeah, I mean, the reason, of course, to ask about it, apart from to get a realistic picture

of how the industry is, is, you know, it's also important, as lots of industries have had, to make sure that there is a light shone on inappropriate behavior or prejudice. Totally agree with you there. I mean, it is a sad fact that most women will have experienced bad behavior. And the big problem is the numbers, the low amount of women playing just compounds the whole issue. And unfortunately, federations being male dominated don't quite appreciate the whole thing. And federations, in my opinion, should be leading the whole thing by saying women's chess exists. Let's not have a theoretical debate about the differences between men and women. Instead, let's just focus on the fact that we can improve things. And as a given, we will be sending a men's team and a women's team to chess events

and we will be dedicating the energy and resources to both. Argo, tell us about your new role. My new role is to help women get easier to the, of course, to the tournaments, to get the training, to support them. For example, last year we started the Women's League in England and that will continue this year, next year, and I hope it will stay for longer as well. We did organise the online team for the women's

and at the moment we have 350 women in England playing online chess every week. We actually have three times competition during the one week, then it's really, really great to support each other. What is going to happen next year? Then we have Year of the Women in Chess. We will have the Norm event to get more titled players in England, which is a great push because we didn't have that kind of tournament since

2013 in England. And that is taking some time and, of course, budget to organise it. But I'm happy to confirm that it's actually happening in April 2022. And so, sorry, so that event is called what? Norm event for Women International Masters. Because, of course, if the woman would like to do the title, she needs three norms, three tournaments where she can climb a norm. A norm? Then, yes, norm for the title. Right.

I'm just getting familiar with the language of your world, of chess. No problem, no problem. The higher levels, that is. Ivanka, what do you say to those who still believe men are better at chess than women? I think that they will soon come to stop thinking those kind of things because once we get the numbers up, then I'm pretty sure that the standard will improve and that the amount of women who are breaking those barriers down, becoming grandmasters, will get better and better. I mean, I just see now that there are more becoming grandmasters will get better and better.

I mean, I just see now that there are more women grandmasters ever than before. And do you think the goal is to have, when there are more women, forgive me for interrupting, women playing men, it should be mixed tournaments because it is not a physical thing? This is a kind of a complex issue for the time being. You can play in mixed tournaments. You can also play in women's tournaments. Playing in a women's tournament does not mean that you say that you're intellectually inferior.

That's not what Wisp is about. It's just about the fact that you can play in a tournament with women and socialise and enjoy the atmosphere. That's what that is all about. Of course, I suppose it was just what for you is the goal, do you think? Because it is unlike so many other sports or games, there's nothing physical involved. Right.

But I mean, there's nothing to stop a woman playing in a mixed tournament or playing in a women's only. It's not an either or situation. You can play as many tournaments as you like. That's the beauty of chess. Just keep going. And with your commentary,

the drama will be amped up. And, Agha, just tell me finally, what's your best move? E4. What does that mean? E4 is a pawn moving to the centre from the king. The pawn moving to the centre from the king. The pawn moving to the centre from the king?

Yeah, from E2 going to E4. The king's pawn moves forward two squares. Ivanka, thank you for that. Ivanka, Alska, explaining it to me. I thought it was all right at chess. And Arga, Milewska, they actually went on to both say that their favourite move, of course, is checkmate. A message is already coming in about your predilections towards chess. If I can,

I will turn to those. And I have to say many, many messages coming in about your reaction to the Downing Street Christmas party of last year. Of course, we await what the Prime Minister has to say about that at noon today at Prime Minister's Questions. But it does seem to have ranked with you in some ways and perhaps rankled, I should say, changed the way you're going to react to any further restrictions or lockdowns, which may be coming down the pipe because of the latest variant. But how the government handled getting desperate people out of Afghanistan in August was undiscretionary yesterday afternoon. MPs on the Foreign Affairs Select Committee grilled senior civil servants,

one of whom did not return from his summer holiday until 11 days after the Taliban seized control, something Sir Philip Barton now says he regrets. MPs were deeply critical of what happened, didn't mince their words or hide their anger, and they quizzed officials on what failure looks like, why the government crisis centre wasn't always staffed, and whether animals were put before people when decisions were made about evacuations. But what of those Afghan families who were able to get here in the mad scramble? In particular, women and girls have been prioritised by the UK. Well, families who did get to the UK as part of Operation Warm Welcome were firstly put in hotels. But now some are having to move again, and for some, it's the third time. That's because home office contracts with hotels are coming to an end. And instead of families beingold son and husband. And when they first arrived in the UK,

they spent two weeks in a quarantine hotel, then four months in a hotel in central London, and now a third hotel elsewhere. Our reporter Henrietta Harrison asked Frozen how the family felt finding out they'd have to move again. There was a rumour around the hotel, the government will take us to another hotel. And we were surprised because we thought that maybe after this hotel, they will take us to another hotels and we were surprised because we thought

that maybe after this hotel they will take us to our houses and there will not be much more movement from one place to one place and we thought that this is also one of those wrong rumors and suddenly we understand that this is true the government will take us to another hotel and they give a letter to some of the families like in one floor one day they were giving the letters asking them to be prepared for moving another week to another floor so we were waiting for our turn when our turn come we got the letter from the home office and there was written that they will transfer us from Royal National Hotel to Crowley and Aurora Hotel. Presumably in the hotel in Camden you had built up relationships with people

as well as having your children in nurseries in schools what was the collective response? The difficult thing that for my son because and son and my daughter because my son went was going in school and he don't know the language he don't know English so he was very happy to find a friend who was starting talking to him in school and so my son just started making that relation and then suddenly we told him that we are moving from from that place so it was difficult for him he was not happy and also for my daughter but like for two three weeks we were trying to manage to make her feel comfortable in nursery because she is very young and she was very used to the nursery

headmaster and to the teacher that she was very used to the nursery headmaster and to the teacher. She was very kind to her. But unfortunately, we have to leave that place. Tell me about the hotel that you're in now. Is it better or worse than the hotel that you were in before? It's similar to the hotel that we had. The only thing is that the address has changed, the place has changed, and the food is a little bit different still in royal national hotel we had asian food but here in this hotel we have fast food like burgers pizza nuggets chips here the rooms are same as the royal

national hotel it's a little bit small and we have two rooms for four people. Yeah, they are somehow the same. How does it feel to be in a hotel for such a long time? It's very difficult. If you feel that I came here to live, it puts you in a more difficult situation that you're living here, you have to have all the things that you need for a life like you have to have enough clothes with you you have to have all the needs that all the things that you need and being in a hotel having all these things is not possible and I have to have a place for my son to study place for my daughter to play so we don't have that in the hotel. It's really difficult for us to live in a hotel, but still we have no other way. We have no other choice.

What's the hardest part about it? Is it having to keep your two-year-old entertained in a hotel room? Is it the 16-year-old that struggles? Do you miss cooking food? What do you personally find hard about it everything is hard from last four months we were we are not eating the food that we we are used to Afghan people they are very used to their own national foods we never tried even like people

are not going much in hotels to eat in our country and now here we are eating very new foods and like my daughter i have to entertain her here i have to keep her calm and every time she is asking for mobile and giving her 24-hour mobile is also not good for her health but we have no choice we have to keep her in our room because if we cannot allow her to go outside and my son he's 16 years old of course he need a time to study he needs time to learn if you take him out of learning so he will be used to used to that so he will his interest will be finished from learning which is also a kind of challenging and bringing them back to learning once we get out of the hotel. So hotel life overall is very difficult. Everything is difficult because it's not a normal life.

And also mentally, like mentally we're not settled. Mentally we are not feeling comfortable because we know that we are going to move from here tomorrow or the after tomorrow. So that kind of thing is all every time in our mind are there any particular times when you find it hard like on a monday morning or on a friday night or are there any sort of moments in your week or in your life where your situation hits harder than any other time yeah like our rooms are very small like we pray five times a day and Islamic practice that we have we pray for five time in a week and having wazoo like cleaning yourself before

Namaz is a difficult thing in hotels because the toilets are not Islamic ways and having a proper place here the hotel they have one place for everyone They have separate room for everyone they have separate room for everyone to go and pray there but we cannot go five times there and also every family they cannot go all together so we have to have a place in our own room in order to pray and the second thing every day is a difficult day like because we don't we don't have any information that what will happen to us but here in hotel i have to stay and i have to wait for for what will happen to to me so that's a kind of difficult for me and i feel not comfortable with with this life and but

the only thing that i can do is to make myself understand that this is temporary you will come out to a settled situation so just wait so that's what we boost ourselves with and what what do you hope for i mean what what would be your message to the home office the thing that i want them i know that you're doing a lot for us, but still, if you could make the process of this housing a little bit, give us speed to that process, that will be very much helpful because still we still in the country in the same situation. And keeping all that tension in mind and also keeping this hotel tension in mind, sometimes it gets frustrating. If you could help us to come out of this frustration, that would be so kind of you. Big thanks to Frozen there for talking to the reporter for Women's Art, Henrietta Harrison,

Judith Dennis's policy manager at the Refugee Council. Good morning. Morning. How common are stories like Frozan's at the moment? It's really typical. I think she sounded very strong and resilient. I wonder, as a parent, you get used to being like that. But if you listen to some of the things she was saying, she was talking about mental distress, about worry,

about family left in Afghanistan, about just not knowing what's going to happen to her and her family and trying to rebuild her life and help her children to rebuild their lives and build on their resilience. And it was very, very common. What is your understanding as to why there is this block in so many of the systems, you know, depending on where you are? We don't really know. Local authorities were asked to provide accommodation. They have been providing accommodation. The scheme for the interpreters and those who've worked with British forces has been in place for some years.

We've had a resettlement scheme, several resettlement schemes here over a number of years. We've had a resettlement scheme, several resettlement schemes here over a number of years. So it's not really very easy to understand where the blockage is. You know, we understand local authorities have offered long term housing through private landlords, etc. So we don't know. People shouldn't be moved from hotel to hotel. That's really... I mean, how many? 15,000 people we believe came here as part of the evacuee programme in August and the month since or the week since. How many of those are still in hotels? Do you have any of those numbers? We do. The minister confirmed towards the end of November there were still 11,000 of those people and an additional 1,000 that came afterwards.

So 12,000 as of sort of mid to late November, the minister said. So that might have changed a little bit, but I don't think it's going to be very different from that now. It is hard to understand why they're in this situation. Of course, we also know there's been pressure on local housing for all sorts of other reasons. But yesterday I was speaking to the defence secretary, Ben Wallace, who said local authorities hadn't taken up his department's office of military office excuse me of military housing only 30 he said 500 have been taken up we spoke to the local government's association about this i said that we would try and get into this who hadn't been told about this issue and then referred us to the home office i've got a statement from the government who said

who says we undertook the uk's biggest and fastest emergency evacuation in recent history helping over 15 000 people to safety from afghanistan who we are continuing to support the resettlement scheme is one of the most generous schemes in our country's history and we'll give up to 20 000 further people at risk a new life in the uk we're working across government and with partners such as the united nations high commissioner for refugees to design and open the scheme and mr complex and changing picture we're committed to working in step with the international community to get this right and we'll set out more details soon.

That still seems to be focusing on how to get people here as opposed to what happens to them when they get here. Any idea of where this has fallen or whose responsibility it is? I mean, I think there is a cross-government responsibility. You know, one scheme is an MOD, Administrative Attends and Home Office scheme. But as I say,

you know, they're building on existing schemes. So there isn't a lot that needs to be designed, really. It's just about making it happen. Do we have the homes? You may have the scheme, but do we have the homes? Well, my understanding is, but do we have the homes? Well, my understanding is, you know, the same as yours from the local government association,

that local authorities have been pledging and offering up homes. I mean, part of what happens is if you offer a home in September and nobody's moved into it by November, what do you do with that? So, you know, actually making sure that people move when the homes are available is the Home Office's responsibility. We will endeavour to have someone from the Home Office on with responsibility for this to try and get to the bottom of. Judith Dennis, Policy Manager at the Refugee Council. Thank you very much indeed. Now, I can talk to Tanya Borg because last week a man was jailed in the UK for the third time for refusing to sign papers to return his daughters to their mother. Tanya Borg's daughters were taken from Pusey in Wiltshire by their father, Mohamed El Zubaydi, in 2015 to Libya on the pretense of seeing their grandmother, his mother. Six years on, her daughters are still missing and thought to be still with their grandmother. Tanya joins me now. Good morning.

Good morning. Thank you for being with us. Yes, well, thank you. Just to say, I explained briefly what happened in 2015 there. What was your understanding of where your girls were going? So I was told that he was going to go for a week's holiday in the February half term to see his mum in Tunisia, as she had family there and there was no flights to Libya at the time. So it'd been a long time since he'd seen his mum and he wanted to go and see his mum for that week. And what happened?

So after a couple of hours, I tried to ring and didn't get anywhere. I kept ringing all day. I got a phone call 12 hours later and then he said he was in Libya. And that's it from the point of view of your daughters? No. So he played out. It was about a year he played out. He was stuck.

Right. It was very long. Obviously, I knew straight away that it was exactly straight away. As soon as he said he was in Libya, I knew what was happening. But I had to play along with him and try and get him to return, as I knew no one would be able to do anything. Have you been able to talk to your daughters or are you able to talk to them at the moment? No, I spoke to them, I saw them for three days when I went there in 2018

but before that I didn't have contact and since then I haven't had contact. How are you? I'm keeping strong for my children that's I have to I've got no choice. Because you weren't able to bring them back with you when you saw them? No I'm like I've been through all the correct channels I've got all the right court orders. But it's down to the authorities not doing their jobs. That's how I see it. My children are being failed by the authorities. Which authorities?

Well, I feel like in this country, they're just washing the hands of it. They don't want to know. And they keep telling me it's up to the Libyan authorities to carry out the orders. So you're sort of stuck between two systems? I'm stuck with everything. Yes, no, I'm trying to understand.

My children are suffering. Of course. And I suppose I'm just trying to understand it. I mean, we've got a statement here from the Foreign Commonwealth and Development Office, which says, we're in contact with Tanya. We continue to provide as much support as we can. Our ability to provide support is limited by the volatile security situation

and conditions on the ground with consular services not available from within Libya. What do you make of that statement? Well, every time I send them a message, the only response I really get is that they advised me not to travel to Libya as it is dangerous, which doesn't help me in any way, shape or form. And I recently got an email that basically said, even if the offices were open in Libya, that they are limited to what they can do. So for that, that means they can't do anything. They can't help me look for them. They can't help me get them back. And it's your understanding that your daughters

are still living with their grandmother? They're definitely with the grandmother, but where, I don't know. And that's why... Somewhere in Tripoli, I presume. And that's why you can't be in contact with them because you don't have the there's no email address there's no address there's no phone number um i have i had phone numbers of the grandmother but she obviously blocks them every time um but yeah my

daughter is 21 years old and she has been physically locked in the house and when i was there and i spoke to them for those three days she told me that she has been physically locked in the house. When I was there and I spoke to them for those three days, she told me that she's been physically locked in when the grandmother leaves the house. She hasn't had education since the age of 15, since she was there. She's not allowed to speak to anybody with a mobile phone. And she even gets watched to go to the toilet like I blows my mind it blows my mind how somebody can and as I mentioned which is the latest development the the person in question their father was sentenced for a third

time last week yeah so every time I have to take him to court. So this time I wanted documents for him to give permission for the children to leave Libya. With that document, it's a lot of help for the Libyan courts to get them home, but he blatantly refused to sign it. So that's why he's been reincarcerated. Tanya, thank you very much for talking to us today. Perhaps we'll also talk again.

This is very far from over from what you've just said. And I can't even imagine, you know, your situation and how strong you do have to be. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Tanya Borg there, the latest on her case. Let me ask you this. Have you ever heard of hypothalamic amenorrhea? Probably said that inaccurately. I'll check with the experts in a moment. But it's when periods stop in women of childbearing age because of under eating and overexercising.

It can affect up to 3% women, we think, and happens because the body enters survival mode from the lack of food and over exercise this survival mode causes periods to stop and women struggle to conceive if they're trying while the writer musician and mum of three izzy judd decided to post about her experiences of this on social media and she joins me now along with dr fatima hussein a consultant obstetrician and gynecologist and fertility specialist. Izzy, I'll come to you first. Good morning. Good morning. It's a very honest post.

I went and had another look at it this morning that you put up on Instagram during Fertility Awareness Week this year. And you say in it, looking back, I was battling disordered eating, which was having a huge impact on my life, health and fertility. I was having a huge impact on my life, health and fertility. I was having no periods. I was undernourished and exercising obsessively, running on adrenaline and looking after two under two. Why did you decide to post this? I've shared my fertility story right from the beginning when we struggled to conceive my daughter, Lola. At that time, I was diagnosed with polycystic ovarian syndrome.

Hindsight's a wonderful thing now with all the uh information that I've gathered over the years about fertility and really tried to educate myself as best I can I've realized the power of the hypothalamus and I think I've had a long battle with anxiety since I was a little girl and I think having lived in fight or flight for so long I think my body's reproduction it just shut down it was almost like it was it was dormant and I think possibly I had been misdiagnosed um and it's only been sort of recently that I have realized that as the anxiety, the stress, undernourishment, over-exercising, which I'm sure must be a familiar story to lots of listeners, I realised that actually the full picture was very different to what I had originally been diagnosed with.

Let me bring in Fatima at this point. tell us about this particular condition yes hello um good morning to everyone um thank you so much for sharing your story is he and i did read it too and uh it really illustrates the things that women are less women are going to to to um you know to look good or whatever the reason is for losing that weight. And we can also look at athletes and sportswomen. But what you went through was quite traumatic to read about that, actually, because I didn't realise before I'd read that you'd suffered for a number of years after your second child. And it was only, I think, just by chance that you thought about this. But I think just for the benefit of the

listeners and maybe we should just go through a few definitions what do we mean by lack of periods and hypothalamic amenorrhea so it might be helpful to know that a normal menstrual cycle is anything from 21 to 35 days when girls start their periods around 12. The cycles can often be irregular. But when you start having, they should regulate thereafter. If you start having irregular periods for whatever reason, every six weeks, every three months, just might be some red flag symptoms. And then actually missing periods, if they've been monthly periods for more than three months is a definition of what we call secondary amenorrhea. And I would urge anyone who is suffering from that and they think, well, you know, what's causing this?

And even if they think they've got what you had, I'd still urge them to go to their GP and get it investigated. And obviously, if I may, that's obviously a big part of this but Izzy just to come back to you and your particular experience and I recognize everybody's is their own but I know that since having had your your third baby congratulations very recently um you did actually uh lay off the exercising a bit and started to eat a more varied diet didn't you yeah I read an amazing book called no period now what by Dr um Rinaldi and it was revelationary really and from reading it was like reading my own head on a page you only have one of those books and it just connects and I would be reading these things out loud to my husband almost absolutely amazed that I had been in such denial I had been living at such a pace looking

after these children in yeah it was it was amazing and basically she talks about steps to recovery and one of those was to increase food intake and stop well reduce your exercise to just calm all your adrenals your cortisol nourish your body back up. And my body responded really quickly, quicker than any sort of hormone treatment that I had been on prior to that. It really was quite amazing how quickly I responded. Although the irony, of course, is, you know, having been through IVF yourself and I've also been on that, you know, lots of what you do to yourself around that is um doesn't feel very natural doesn't feel very good so actually if you're able to then exercise and you think your diet uh you go the other way sometimes you think that can

help there's a bit of an irony there sorry to interrupt I think that my issues was when I had polycystic ovaries what have I done why have I failed why is my body not working right I need to cut out gluten and dairy and I need to and you go through this whole list of things and then that kind of fed into my eating issues because I felt that my body had failed and therefore I needed to eliminate certain things to try and help me and it almost became this vicious circle and you know I I really think that you know because when I sat in front of a doctor I didn't my my BMI was absolutely as it should be I didn't look underweight but actually for me I I was and oh goodness I mean it's a it's a huge subject to to cover yes well I think I think just even by, you know, saying the name of it

is a big part of awareness raising if you have any of these symptoms. And I was just going to say, thank you very much, Lizzie Judd, to you for this and for sharing your story and coming on Woman's Hour with us this morning. But Dr. Fatima Hussain, to give the final word to you, if you think that this may be you, hypothalamic amenorrhea, I'm going to learn to say that as well as I can. If you think that is you, is that is the key sign not having your period? The key sign is not having your periods, but combining, you know, making sure that you've had excluded all other causes, actually, because, you know, and you can't just diagnose it on your own, you need some

hormone tests need scans and i think one of the things i've learned from the pandemic is i've been doing loads more virtual clinics and i ask the women to just make sure you've got your menstrual calendar with you and when you talk we'd get their height weight work out the bmi also take an exercise history because it's really amazing, there's such a spectrum of this hypothalamic amenorrhea, there may be people who are normal weight, normal BMI, but their exercise levels mean they're in energy deficit. And it's a potentially reversible cause of this problem. And so what you don't want to be doing is having hormones when you've actually got a very natural way to solve the problem and I think the approach of the mental health aspects are really important.

Yes, well we're going to have to leave it there but we will post some links on the Women's Hour website to support this and also just so you know how to spell it as well. Dr Fatima Hussein, thank you very much indeed. Many messages have come in this morning with regards to the Downing Street Christmas party. Last Christmas, I had family members desperate to visit my newborn child. As a police employee, I had to remind family members that any breach of the rules could result in me being investigated by my employees and losing my job. No flexibility.

The government evoked the law, national duty and blitz spirit during this period. And they use the levers of power to exempt themselves from all of it. Thanks for your company and messages today. I'll be back with you tomorrow at 10. That's all for today's Woman's Hour. Thank you so much for your time. Join us again for the next one. Hello, I'm Felicity Finch.

You may know me as Ruth in The Archers. I'm just asking for a few seconds of your time before you listen to the Woman's Hour podcast. This Christmas, thousands of people across the UK will be without a safe place to call home. But you can help change that. St Martin's helps ensure that people experiencing homelessness can find and keep a safe place to live. Your gift could support someone to take the next step towards a more secure future. Please support the BBC Radio 4 Christmas Appeal with St Martin-in-the-Fields

by donating online on the Radio 4 Christmas Appeal website. Whether you give every year or if this is your first, thank you. Now enjoy your podcast. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.