Woman's Hour - Cost of living, Lynn Nottage, Gel manicures, 'Rosewater' by Liv Little

Episode Date: April 20, 2023

Published in 2001, ‘The Secret Life of Bees’ was a New York Times bestseller for more than 125 weeks and was made into an award-winning film starring Dakota Fanning, Queen Latifah, Jennifer Hudson and Alicia Keys in 2008. Now the book has been adapted by Lynn Nottage, a playwright and screenwriter, for the stage. It is on at the Almeida Theatre in London and Anita Rani talks to Lynn Nottage, the only woman to have won the Pulitzer prize for drama twice, about her adaptation.New research by the pensions and investment company, Royal London, shows that women are being hit harder by the rising cost of living than men and are facing higher monthly costs on a lower average income. Women are more likely to have made cutbacks in day-to-day spending to cope and around one in three say they could only afford an unexpected bill of up to £500 from either their income or savings. Anita Rani is joined by Clare Moffat, a Finance Expert, to go through the figures and Amber Proctor, youth and community worker at Hexham Youth Initative in Northumberland.A rise in popularity of gel nail products is leading to increasing numbers of people developing allergies that can affect their future healthcare options, according to dermatologists. Some imported products are thought to contain high levels of chemicals known as acrylates, which can be harmful in liquid form. The allergies can prevent people having medical procedures such as joint replacement and cataract surgeries. Dr. Emma Wedgeworth, Consultant Dermatologist and Lucy Tucker, a nail technician working in the film industry discuss the issues. Author, Liv Little, founder and former editor of gal-dem, the award-winning online and print magazine for women of colour, publishes her debut novel today. Called Rosewater it introduces us to Elsie; a sexy, funny and fiercely independent 28-year old poet living in South London. Liv joins Anita in the Woman’s Hour studio.Presenter: Anita Rani Producer: Rebecca Myatt Studio manager: Bob Nettles

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme, peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, I'm Anita Rani and welcome to Woman's Hour from BBC Radio 4. Women are being hit harder by the cost of living than men and are facing higher monthly costs on a lower average income, according to new research. So this morning on the programme, we want to hear from you. How is the cost of living affecting you and your household? What are the costs that are impacting your life the most?

Is it food, energy bills, mortgage, rent, childcare? And what cutbacks are you having to make? No more clothes, takeaways, spending on treats? And is there a gender difference towards money in your home? Tell me what's going on. get in touch in the usual way it's 84844 that's the number to text and today it'd be really good to actually hear your voices on the program so please send me a voice note on 03700 10044 or how about actually talking to me live on the program if you would like to join me to tell me what's happening with the cost of living

and how it's impacting your lives then send a text or an email through our website but do remember to leave your number so we can call you back that text number once again is 84844 also on the program we're joined by a literary great today lynn nottage the most produced playwright in the us and the only woman to have won the pullet surprise for drama twice. She's adapted the best-selling novel Secret Life of Bees for the stage and will be here to tell me all about it. Also the voice of a generation that's what I'm calling her Liv Little the former editor and founder of Galdem magazine will be in to talk about her debut novel Rosewater which is out today

and gel nails. I'm obsessed with mine. No chip nails. The polish lasts for two weeks. It was an absolute game changer. But the chemicals in them could be a cause of allergies for some. We'll be finding out all about that. That text number again, 84844, if you'd like to get in touch with me about anything here on the programme, but particularly how the cost of living is impacting you,

because as British households face the fastest annual increase in food and drink prices since 1977, one newspaper's front page this morning simply calls it a living nightmare. And today, new research by the pensions and investment company Royal London shows that women are being hit harder by the cost of living than men and are facing higher monthly costs on average on a lower average income. Women are more likely to have made cutbacks in day-to-day spending to cope with the cost of living and around one in three say they could only afford an unexpected bill of up to £500 from either their income or savings and women are less likely to ask for help than men. To discuss this research which is exclusive to Woman's Hour this

morning I'm joined by Clare Muffett a finance expert at Royal London. Clare very good morning welcome to Woman's Hour. Let's go through some of these figures. Why are women facing higher costs? What kind of picture are you seeing for women with the rising costs of living? So we've been doing this research for a year now so we've got some really good data and although the level of worry hasn't tended to vary too much what we have noticed is this difference between men and women and it is an interesting one because why are women more worried than men? Now there's some areas where we sort of understand the difference so for example when we think about mortgage costs, apparently more men own their homes outright as opposed to women. And mortgage costs is quite an interesting one,

because looking across the last year, most worry has stayed around about the same. So if we think about things like energy and food, that's stayed fairly consistent. But this time last year, when we did our research, 38% of women were worried about mortgage costs. And this year, it's 81%. Now, of course, you know, when we look at where interest rates were about a year ago, probably about 0.75%. Now they're at 4.25%. So if you are, you know, more women have rent, they have mortgages to pay. These costs are going to make a big difference. And I think, you know, when we look at that in perspective, if you had a £200,000 mortgage a year ago, variable rate, 25 year term, then you probably were paying about £1,100 a month. And now you're probably paying about £1,500 a month so almost £400 of an increase and you mentioned about food and of course you know we don't want to don't want to be

stereotypical but often women are doing the shopping so they could be more worried about food because they're seeing the impact of these food prices and as you mentioned it's a 45 year high. When I'm looking just anecdotally across my friends, it's normally women who do the shopping, not in my household. My husband does all the shopping. But you can't help to notice costs increasing when you're at the supermarket. So what's changed since you started the research last year? Have women's habits or their approach to the rising prices changed? What are people doing? About a year ago, we asked what people were planning to do

because we were at the start of this crisis. And then we've asked them what they did do. So women more than men were going to cut back on things. You know, right at the beginning of this, they were talking about cutting back on the heating by one degree, stopping heating altogether, reducing takeaways and meals out, stopping buying clothes. And every kind of cutback mentioned women were going to make more cutbacks than men. Then we tracked,

did that actually happen? Not as high a percentage, but still quite close. And again, it was women who were making the cutbacks first. So it's, you know, men have more savings, and the research looked at this as well. So perhaps what happened is that if women don't have as much in the way of savings, they've not got this buffer, which, you know, would have helped. And you mentioned about the issue of, you know, a third of women couldn't afford a bill of over £500 a month. So that's something that's unexpected. Maybe something goes wrong with your car or the boiler needs repaired. So if you've got more of a buffer in terms of cash savings, then you could probably pay a higher

amount. But it's quite scary to think that so many women couldn't afford over £500. Now, comparatively, 25% of men could afford a bill of more than 500 pounds interesting isn't it i'm just wondering if why why it is women who are being more prudent who are cutting back is it is it solely to do with savings if this is if this is resonating with any of you listening out there then get in touch we'd love to hear anecdotally what's happening within your own households 84844 is the number to text messages are coming in claire i'm retired social worker the cost of living means two of my adult children can't leave home but i can't afford for them to leave home either they contribute towards bills each month without the additional income i couldn't cover my overheads and that's from sue

anna in norfolk says money has become very tight for me as a mum and a practicing artist with a low income my partner and i share his salary and my part for buying food clothes diesel for the car etc is now running out mid-month feeding three kids and two dogs has never put me into overdraft before but it is now um this has had an impact on the housing market which has changed a lot over the year what do we know about what women are spending on when it comes to housing? So we know that they are paying more in terms of mortgage costs and rental costs, but they're paying on average about 15, 16 pounds extra a month. So we know they're spending on that.

But, you know, there's more households that have single women living in them. So that's a bit of an issue too and you mentioned the person who's a retired social worker and you know if she was living by herself then she would get a reduction in her council tax but because there's another two adults living in the house then she can't have that reduction and you know when we think about people who are retired as well or women who are retired then although they might have had especially you know like that person who had a public sector in pension then they will have seen an increase this year but that increase and any increases in state pension as well they might have helped them but

the costs that people are paying out are still more so even for those who don't have mortgages and have savings because perhaps they have retired, they're still having to pay out more every month than they ever had before. And you mentioned interest rates. Is there anything we can do about these rising interest rates? Well, it's interesting, isn't it? Because we were expecting inflation to come down. If inflation had come down and there was an expectation by the end of the year it might look more like normal. It's come down but an absolute fraction hasn't it? It was showed that inflation fell from to 10.1% in the year to March it's down from 10.4% the previous month. So we kind of expected it would

come down more because of energy prices but then there's this problem of food inflation. So that's pushing it up. And actually in May, we're going to see the impact of broadband going up in April will have an impact on May's inflation figure. So it might not go down by as much as we expect it to go down again. So if inflation's high,

interest rate rises, we had hoped there might only be one more interest rate rise and then they would start to come down again. Well, those interest rate rises are going to there might only be one more interest rate rise and then they would start to come down again well those interest rate rises are going to take longer to come through so for people who do have mortgages or in the rental sector as well we're seeing rents being put up by 10 percent often then you know if they're coming off a fixed rate mortgage and about 80 percent of people are on fixed rate mortgages, they could have fixed at something like 1.5% potentially. They're coming off and the variable rate is 4.25 just now, could

go up to 4.5. But what do they do? Do they hold off in the hope that interest rates go down and therefore you'll get a better fixed rate? It's a tricky situation just now because it's difficult. People want fixed costs and mortgage is one of those that you want to know what you're paying. But also you don't want to tie yourself into two, five, ten years paying more if interest rates are going to come down. Yeah, incredibly stressful situation. And you've heard from women who are concerned about both mortgages and rent. What have they been telling you? Well you know we find that when we look at how worried people are about the cost of living in general women are much more worried than men and it is interesting. Why do we think that is? Well I mean it's difficult to say so we didn't ask huge amounts of kind of questions about

about differences but that's across the spectrum so we're talking about across different ages of women and different income bands lots of different things are looked at um here so it's perhaps they're more aware of it perhaps it is that because that you know they don't have as much cash um perhaps there's also for older women they're more worried about their children and You mentioned that, you know, people's children can't afford to move out as well. So there's a kind of generational impact as well. What was interesting was that one of the few areas where men were more worried than women was childcare costs. And that's when I can't really kind of work out why is that the case? Because it feels like women would normally be more worried about childcare costs.

So that's a bit of an anomaly and we can't really explain that one. Yeah, we discussed that a lot on the programme. I wonder how much of a concern it is to both of them. So you're saying men are more concerned than women. Is this, again, something that you can relate to? Tell us what's happening in your household. And if you would like to send me a voice note on whatsapp it's 03700 100 444 and you mentioned earlier about savings tell me a bit more about this who is saving more out of men

and women and and why so women have about two-thirds of the cash savings of men now when we looked at kind of the um the average income for men and women for For men, it was about £40,000 and women about £25,000. And that's because there's a much higher percentage of women who work part time compared to men. So that's probably to be expected. But when we looked at the amount of savings, then men had about £14,700 in savings on average and women had about £9,. Now again it goes back to this issue about having a cash buffer so if you need to access your savings whether that is just to pay for increased costs women are going to use that money up sooner and you know that's where it becomes really tricky because they are having to pay if their housing costs are more, you know, food bills are up.

They're, you know, across the board, they're worried and they don't have the cash that's there if something major does go wrong. And, you know, I think we probably all appreciate that things happen, don't they? You know, we just got told we needed a new timing belt for our car at £1,000. You know, you can't always predict these type of things.

And, you know, perhaps for jobs, people need a car. So that is a real concern you know you can't always predict these type of things and you know perhaps for jobs people need a car so that is a real concern of suddenly you needed that money and and what we also found in the research is that women are less likely than men to ask for help slightly more likely than men to ask for help from friends and family but in general most people are not asking for help and more women than men aren't asking for help so that's another question um and you know we know in other research we've done in the past that financial confidence is sometimes an issue um for women they you know and they don't have discussions about money as frequently as men would have discussions with um about money whether that's

in terms of um you know with family with friends with banks with charities you know across all different areas women don't ask for help as much and they don't like talking about money as much and so much of what you're saying is coming through from our listeners as well you've mentioned cars there someone's messaged in to say as a solo mother of two sons i'm unable to afford a car i'm now reliant on public transport to get to work as a nurse. I'm constantly worried as I work there is very little, there's very little help available. I work two jobs. I have no idea where I can cut back. I have no more savings. Someone else is saying I'm a single mum and can only survive now on my faster decreasing savings. Again, what you're

saying, Claire, and cutting my own food intake and purchases i'm a fairly senior civil servant um i feel like i can't afford anything anymore um i'm in a tricky position where my salary is just over minimum wage so my employer isn't giving me a wage increase i'm definitely just getting by paying bills and essentials but other than that i don't feel like i've got money to spend on myself doing a weekly food shop has started to feel like a treat for myself your messages i keep them coming through 84844 is the number to text and another one here and before i come back to you claire with another question it says i'm being affected by the price of living my poorer health of late has meant not being able to work my old hours as a self-employed cleaner and the higher costs of all bills together with the reduced income means i'm only able to visit my elderly mother once a fortnight instead of the

three or four times a fortnight I used to be able to afford to do. What advice would you give to anyone struggling? So you know the top thing is look at your bills now I think because we've been in this cost of living crisis for quite a while now, probably people did do that a year ago. So look at the supermarket she spent money in, that was one of the top cutbacks that people made was actually changing where they shopped or reducing, you know, maybe not buying the most expensive type of food. So if you haven't done that, then that's definitely something to look at. But also things like, you know, as I mentioned, broadband, mobile contracts, most of them were linked to CPI. So they will have gone up by 10.1% in April, plus often another part on top. So it wouldn't be unusual to see 15% increases.

So can you do anything to reduce your other bills that you have, like broadband, mobile bills, anything like that? I'd also say don't bury your head in the sand. So ask for help if you're like broadband mobile bills anything like that i'd also say don't bury your head in the sand so ask for help if you're struggling with with any bills um energy bills get in touch with the provider also you know i think quite often organizations like banks are trying to help people phone them up it's better to get in touch with them and ask for help. You know, and they'll kind of talk you through different things that can be done. Yeah, ask for help.

Good advice. Claire Muffett, thank you so much for speaking to me about that. On Saturday, Moneybox will be focusing on what this research shows about how higher earners,

those who earn between £40,000 to £80,000 a year, are being impacted by the rising cost of living. More on that with Paul Lewis at midday on saturday lunchtime but new research by the charity uk youth reveals more than half of young people aged between 16 to 25 and their parents sampled say that the cost of living is having a negative impact on their mental health well amber proctor is a youth and community worker at hexam youth initiative in northumberland. What are you seeing on the ground, Amber?

Lots of people getting in touch this morning saying how it's impacting them. And of course, this is going to have a knock-on effect on people's mental health. What are you experiencing? Hi. I think that a lot of what Claire said is very relevant for young people as well. Maybe not directly with banks and that, but hearing what parents are saying at home or their caregivers hearing that anxiety and that worry that families are having young people

are carrying that as well and we hear those conversations in youth club of young people worrying about how families are feeling what are they saying um we're not we're worrying about not wanting to ask for things not wanting to ask for as much for Christmas for birthdays worried about not wanting to take letters home from school regarding school trips because they don't want to add the concern on um we've recently opened a new skate park so I spend a lot of time talking to skaters and you hear concerns that if they've ripped trousers or ripped hoodies, they don't want to go home and tell mam that because they're just so worried about adding extra stress. And research from UK Youth says one in five say their access to a regular meal has been impacted.

You also offer food as part of your service, don't you? Have you seen more of a take up for that? We've seen a massive increase in take up for that. I would say that food used to be a plus at HYI. We've always provided food, but now I would say it's an essential part of what we do. And I would also say that some, not all, but some young people are definitely accessing the service for food. And are you able to help, offer help out, to help out people who get into serious crisis like just how much are you having to do? We do a lot to support families and we work in partnership with a lot of other amazing local organisations and a lot of signposting. Our job club which is

a 16 plus session we do a lot of CVs and benefit inquiries, but we also do PIP applications and help families with DLA applications. And those forms can be so long and so challenging that sometimes you just need a friendly face there with you to help fill those in. Amber, thank you so much for speaking to me this morning. So many of you getting in touch with how the cost of living is impacting you. Morning, Anita. I'm struggling right now. 39, single, live alone. My health has declined over the past 18 months, post-pandemic, meaning I'm working less and less. I'm self-employed and run my own business.

Today is rock bottom. And then today I need to both close the business for my own health, but also look for a different kind of work. The increased winter costs, insanely expensive food costs and reduced working means I'm squeezed in the middle. Thank you for sharing what's happening in your lives. I hope that some of that advice has been able to help some of you, but do continue to get in touch if you want to share anything about the cost of living. It's

84844. On to my next guest, the most produced playwright in the US and the only woman to have won the Pulitzer Prize for Drama twice. Playwright Lynn Nottage has adapted Sue Monk's, Sue Monk Kidd's popular novel, The Secret Life of Bees, for the stage. Published in 2001, the book was a New York Times bestseller for more than 125 weeks and was made into an award-winning film starring Dakota Fanning, Queen Latifah, Jennifer Hudson and Alicia Keys in 2008. Now made into a musical, it's just opened at the Almeida Theatre in London.

It tells the story of a pair of young women, one black, one white, who run away from their small town in South Carolina in 1964 and take refuge in a remote honeybee farm against the backdrop of a country divided by the passing of the Civil Rights Act in the same year. Well, I'm delighted to say that Lynn joins me now. Welcome to Woman's Hour. Welcome back to Woman's Hour. Thank you. It's wonderful to have you here. Tell us about Secret

Life of Bees. You've described it as a coming of age story. It is a coming of age story, but it's also a story that's very much about healing and community and resilience. It centers around two young women who are fleeing a brutal situation. One white who has an abusive father and harmed her mother in an accident. And the other is a woman who works in her service, Rosaline, who's black, who in the wake of the Civil Rights Act decides that she is going to register to vote. And on her way to vote, she is brutally beaten by two white men. And so the two young women find themselves having to flee their circumstances. And as you mentioned, they land at this mystical, wonderful sanctuary, which is a bee farm that's run by three self-possessed,

beautiful black women. We're going to talk about them. Who are they? August, May and June, the young women who they find themselves in a refuge with. August, May and June are educated black women in South Carolina in 1964 and who, against odds, have created a space, a business where they can thrive. And in many ways, you know, they're radical in that they've created their own religion. They've created their own means to sort of transcend their circumstances. And this provides them with a refuge. Yes.

It's set in South Carolina, as I mentioned, in 1964, just as the Civil Rights Act had been passed by Congress. What impact did the passing of that law have? Well, I think the Civil Rights Act was really a turning point because it legally dismantled segregation, even though it would take some time for it to be enacted. As we know that the civil rights movement continued much through the 1960s into 70s. And even now we're grappling with voting rights issues. And it opened the door for many people, particularly in the South, to vote for the very first time. Why did you want to tell this story? You know, I read the book many, many years ago, I think when it first came out. And I remember getting to the end and just bursting into tears and having a very visceral response to the way in which these women were able to build a community. What did it tap into? You know, it just tapped into this sense that in order for us to move forward and survive, we really have to figure out how we're going to help each other. the fact that the book sang, that there was this lyricism and poetic nature in the book that when I was reading it, I heard each song. As a matter of fact, when the three collaborators, myself,

Susan Birkenhead, and Duncan Sheik, who's the composer, Susan is the lyricist, first sat down, we were trying to figure out, okay, where does this book sing? And we decided that we're going to go off on our own, and then form lists of 10 places. And when we came back, I think that our lists were exactly the same, except for maybe one place. And I thought, oh, you know, that speaks to sort of the nature of the narrative, that there are places that just demand to be examined in a more expansive way. And that's the beauty of the narrative, that there are places that just demand to be examined in a more expansive way. And that's the beauty of a musical. And I think why it lends itself so nicely to telling the stories of novelists is that you can dive into some of the interiority of the characters, that you can tell their stories expansively in ways that don't feel self-conscious,

but would if they were straight plays. that you can tell their stories expansively in ways that don't feel self-conscious, but would if they were straight plays. What were the challenges of creating a musical? Because we had playwright Lolita Chakraborty on the programme on Monday who adapted Maggie O'Farrell's Hamnet for the stage. And she said it was just her and Maggie, but Maggie was very hands-off, let her do it, because she's not a theatre person. So how did it work between the three of you um i just want to first say that that clip was rachel jahan who's

the actress who plays august boatwright and she's just magnificent but to answer your your question you know adaptations are always challenging because you're basically being asked to move into someone else's house and rearrange their furniture. And you have to be really careful about how you do it and very sensitive. And it's a bit of a daunting task, particularly when you're dealing with a book, a novel like Secret Life of Bees that is so beloved and so many people have read. And so when we were approaching it, we did it very carefully and very intentionally and very lovingly. And I think one of the blessings is that we had the opportunity to talk to Sue Monk Kidd. And she said, I've written the book.

And I'm really open to seeing how you interpret it. And she gave us her blessing to really take a different journey. And we did make some choices that are very different than what happens in the book. Well, if you hand your novel over to you, Lynn, you know it's going to be in safe hands. So where did your inspiration to want to become a playwright come from and work in theatre? You know, that's a big, wonderful question. And I actually contemplate it every year in a different way because I think that I'm still trying to figure out, like, why am I a playwright? And I think it really comes down to when I was a child. I'd come home from school and I'd enter our kitchen where there was this big orange famica table. And my mother was a schoolteacher.

And inevitably, she'd have all of her friends who were also schoolteachers or public servants in some way, and my grandmother, who was a great raconteur, and they'd be sitting around that table with an enormous jug of Mondavi red wine. And they would tell stories and share their experiences, probably from three o'clock until six o'clock when it was time for them to go home to their own families. And I think that that became my first theater space, the first place in which I could immerse myself in storytelling and understand sort of that communal exchange that is so significant to the ways in which we tell our narratives in theatres. And you particularly tell the story of marginalised women. Where does that come from? Well, I think that the women who were sitting around that table, my mother's friends,

my mother, my grandmother, who were these incredibly self-possessed, very smart, political women, rarely did I see women who look like me standing center stage. Yes, you occasionally saw, you know, black women on the periphery and aspects of black women's lives. But very rarely did we stand second stage and center stage. And just I want to tell this story really quickly when I wrote Ruined, which is about gender specific human rights abuses in the Congo. And there's a woman who is Mama Nadi, who's the central character. And the woman who was playing her would always move everywhere around the stage except for center stage. And we kept saying, it's like you can take up space. This is your story. stage except for a center stage. And we kept saying, it's like, you can take up space. This

is your story. And what we realized is that she was not used to doing that as an actress. She was always asked to step to the side, step back, you know, but never to step into the center of the spotlight. And I think one of the reasons I tell stories is because I want to see her center stage every single time. Yeah, great story. And, you know, she's probably not used to it as an actress. Yes. But even as a woman. Yes. And I think, you know, there's probably lots of women watching that who can relate. Yeah. Thinking about it, you know, we've just never felt that we can take center stage. Our stories don't belong center stage. Yeah, which is something that I was told throughout my career for many, many years. And, you know, it's been a battle of

attrition and just pushing back and pushing back and saying, I belong here. And I'm sorry, but oh, no, you know what? I'm not sorry. I am going to take up some space. I mean, you've kicked the door down, basically, because you're currently the most produced playwright in the US. For someone who's saying, you know, you want to tell the story of marginalized women, you are a marginalized woman, or have been historically. And now here you are, as the most produced playwright in the US, the only woman to have won these two Pulitzer Prizes for drama. That must feel pretty amazing. Yeah, it's kind of surreal. And I kind of pinch myself every day and ask myself, well, how did I get here?

Yeah. What do you think about that? You know, I'm incredibly tenacious. I've worked very hard. It hasn't been a simple journey. And I think that one of the reasons perhaps the most produced playwright is that I'm really invested in telling stories about multiculturalism in America and placing different types of people in proximity. And I think that that's not something that people are used to encounter. But I think it's a conversation that's really important for us to be having at this moment in our culture. Absolutely. Why? Well, because we've certainly seen over the last five years that we've become so fractured across economic and racial lines and that there's

so much healing in the United States that has to go on. But we really don't know how to do it. I mean, we're fumbling. And I feel like that gap is growing wider and wider. So where do you get your energy from? Where do you find your joy to push forward? You know, I'm an eternal optimist. And despite everything that happens, I really can't explain is that I am a glass half full person. And that I just am always looking for places of beauty and places where I can find joy. And I think that most recently I've become very invested in telling stories that are about healing. I mean, Secret Life of Bees is certainly an example of that. But more recently, my play Clydes, which is going to be coming to London later this season. But I just think it's really important for us, particularly now when

we're all healing from so many different wounds, to figure out how we can, as a culture, come together and support ourselves. You know, at the end of one of my plays, Clydes, someone says, well, what is the message? You know, I always say I'm not a message playwright. But the message is that everyone has something to contribute. And I think that that's true of Secret Life of Bees. And we forget that, you know, we forget when we close our borders and disinvite people that those people are really necessary, because I think cultural collisions are where innovation happens. You know, we never know what's going to happen when that Mayan woman, you know, has a conversation with an African American man from Mississippi, what that

conversation is going to yield and how the world is going to look different after they make something together. Amazing. I've absolutely loved speaking to you. Thank you so much for joining us and you on. We will roll out the red carpet and put the kettle on anytime you're back in the UK. So come and talk to us again. Thank you so much, Lynn. Lots of you getting in touch about the cost of living. Anastasia has been in touch to say the cost of living. Please don't forget women with disabilities. It costs more being disabled. My energy bill is massive massive i have cerebral palsy i always have the heating on the washing machine etc now gel manicures are now one of the most popular beauty treatment in the uk but the government is investigating reports that growing numbers of people are developing life-changing allergies to get gel nail products dermatologists say they're treating people for allergic reactions to acrylic and gel nails most weeks. So what's the best advice for women on whether to continue with gel nails

or go back to nail varnish? Should they be done in salons or at home? What should women look out for? And what questions should we all be asking, women and men? To find out more, I'm joined by Dr Emma Wedgworth, who is a consultant dermatologist and spokesperson for the British Skin Foundation, and Lucy Tucker, celebrity nail technician in TV, film and fashion. Welcome both.

I'm fully invested in this, having got gel nails since the year 2007. Emma, what's the cause of the allergic reactions that have been reported? What's going on? So it's a molecule known as methacrylate, which can actually expose and sink into the skin, causing a shift in the immune system within the skin, which then causes allergic reactions. That's redness, dryness, flakiness. And some molecules are more likely to do that than others. And methacrylate is quite a small molecule. It can penetrate into the skin. And that's why we're starting to see higher incidences. And what are the figures around this? Do we know how many people are reacting? So it's hard to know because we know that the tip of the iceberg is what dermatologists see. So what we look at is trends.

And we're starting to see that in allergy clinics that we have, we're starting to see rising cases of these acrylate allergies and that is probably because so many more people are becoming exposed from acrylic nails and gel nails and it's this rise in incidence that is really very significant and that's what's causing the investigations into this. So Lucy how do these gel manicures work what's important in the process? So the main difference between a normal manicure and a gel manicure is your hand has to go into a UV or LED box to set, to cure the layers of the gel. The gel offers a long-lasting, high-shine, instantly free gel polish,

which in the world we live in, no one's got any time anymore to wait. So you can have your nails done and straight away put your shoes on and put your coat on and jump off and get on with the rest of your day. Absolute game changer. What are the reactions that you've heard of though, Emma? What's happening? What's going on? So what you can see is a reaction either on the fingers and you would see redness, swelling, itching, pain, flaking or

even just a milder sort of eczema but we also see them in other areas because we often touch our faces and we you know scratch or rub our eyes we can actually see facial eczema that can be developed from these and when you first develop a reaction it may be quite mild but actually as time goes on that reaction become worse and worse with swelling and pain, and it can take a while to settle. And an allergic reaction to this chemical can have wide-reaching effects as well in other areas. What do we know? Exactly. So the concern is not just around nails. The concern is these sorts of chemicals, these sorts of acrylics, are used in different types of surgery so for example

joint replacements also dental work and the concern is once you've developed an allergy that's a lifelong thing. Into dental work? Yeah exactly so when they're putting in dental implants and things they can often use these bits. Lucy a lot of problems have arisen with women using DIY kits at home do you think it's possible to ever do anything like this safely at home what's your advice? I just want to also mention that it's not just DIY kits it's happening even with some professionals unfortunately having clients that are just becoming allergic to ingredients in the products um it we saw a massive spike in lockdown obviously when the salons were shut um and the cosmetic industry obviously you couldn't women weren't really buying lipsticks because we were wearing masks so the next thing that that soared was the nail polishes and then

and these gel systems that people were buying online and this is where we it's it's always been happening people have always sort of been, whether it's hair dye or nail products. But because of, I think, everyone in lockdown decided to be their own nail technician and watch us professionals work on social media. And sometimes they think, you know, what we're doing, we make it look so easy that the consumer can just copy. And no one's actually, no one's been trained. I've been doing this for 25 years I'm still being educated I'm still learning I'm still training as are all of my peers um you you can't just read a piece of paper and say right apply a thin layer of base coat you don't know how thin

you don't know if these if people at home are getting on their skin this is where the problems are lying they're not sure how much to even put on their their nail brush and and it's always been happening it's just for some reason the bbc has picked up and and it has it's just blown up and clients and professionals and everyone's in running headless and script and they're not sure you know where to turn and it's sort of got a bit out of control at the moment um i just think nails need to be done by a professional i think that's the bottom line you have to trust your professional is using the best products their knowledge how do you know what the best product is though should we be asking you know if we go into our nail salon should we be looking at the ingredients list and know should we be you can very much yeah you can

absolutely have a look at the ingredients but you have to be you have to trust your nail technician that that's you're putting your faith into that person and that person's only going to be using the best products to their ability because because they're passionate about their job we're all in this because we love what we do and we use the best products you know that we that we want to use so you have to trust the professional and go into a safe environment that you feel it that people are, they know their stuff. And obviously their pricing can show in the pricing. If you're paying next to nothing for a gel manicure, you have to question yourself, what products are they using that they can charge

such a little cost? You know, sometimes we can't compete with the high streets, the prices, because our products are so expensive that we invest in good products that have been tested. Emma, what's your advice to people who might be listening to this and panicking a little bit? So I would definitely say don't panic. I mean, fundamentally, these are still relatively rare cases. But as doctors, as dermatologists, we look carefully at these trends. And this has happened before in a number of different scenarios where we start to see these rising trends and then we change what we use. This is an evolving field. So don't panic. It doesn't mean that you never have to have another manicure again.

I have gel manicures. I absolutely echo the fact that it should be done in a reputable nail salon where they know exactly what they're doing. They've been trained. I wouldn't advise that you're using these things at home. And I would be careful about having it if you have open wounds or anything like that around that sort of area because it's more likely to penetrate the skin. And I think to have faith in both dermatology, but also the cosmetic standards industry which are very very good and they are starting we are starting to see some of these um hema so hema is the name of them if that relate free products where actually molecules which are less likely to cause allergies um are going to be used so definitely no need to panic um someone's been in touch helen to say what are the impacts on the nail salon workers they'd be exposed daily well yeah absolutely and

we all wear gloves and obviously we change our gloves after every client and and we have to make sure obviously all our tools are sanitized I personally I've been doing as you as I mentioned this job for 25 years and I have from day dot always used clients come to my salon and they all have their own individual nail file that I keep in an envelope in boxes and boxes and boxes and I've done that since I started in the industry it's only since Covid now we've had to obviously really up our game and very quickly just because I've got you here Lucy and you're an expert do we give them a rest every so often do we let them have a little breathing nails are amazing I cannot it's a game changer absolutely

not if they're done professionally they are removed correctly and applied correctly you don't need to have gaps you don't but if anyone consumer wants to have their nails done at home please use nail varnish nail varnish thank you and you are desperate sorry to know a gel home system please please seek advice from a professional. It's my biggest advice. Good advice. Thank you both, Dr Emma Wedgworth and Lucy Tucker, for talking to me about that. And a government spokesperson said that all cosmetics made available

in the UK must comply with strict safety laws. This includes a list of ingredients to enable consumers with allergies to identify products that may be unsuitable for them. Anyone who has concerns about the safety of gel nail products should contact Citizens Advice or their local trading standards department. Now, author Liv Little, founder and former editor of Galdem,

the award-winning online and print magazine for women and non-binary people of colour, publishes her debut novel today. Called Rosewater, it introduces us to Elsie, a sexy, funny and fiercely independent 28-year-old poet living in South London as she tries to find her feet in a world that's becoming increasingly difficult to navigate. Here's an extract read by Liv herself when we first meet Elsie as she faces eviction from her flat and has nowhere to go. My rotation is interrupted by a faint and familiar tap at the front door. It's Juliet.

The first thing she does is squeeze me tight. My eyes glaze with a thin layer of water. She's here for the first time in months. Juliet looks past me into the flat to one of the men, who, upon hearing the door, reinstated his initial position in my hallway. Her eyes move then to the boxes on the floor, all without letting go of me. I want to stay in her arms, but we first have to manoeuvre all of my belongings into her bedraggled green mini. It's about to be written off, but her grandma left the car to her after she died, so

Juliet refuses to get rid of it. Who are they? Juliet whispers in my ear, her curly hair sticking momentarily to my warm, damp cheeks, a combination of sweat and tears. Bailiffs. I gulp down the shame. We have 10 minutes to get everything into your car. Then they're locking the door. I can see Juliet's brain kicking into gear, just like it used to when we were 12 and she concocts some witty comeback that would disarm wannabe bullies in the playground. Though the look on her face is serious now, more brutal than usual. I'll put the back seat down and we'll get everything in. Don't you worry else. Releasing me from her tender perfume squeeze,

she picks up the heaviest box with her thin but capable arms and without complaint walks it out the door and towards the lift. Liv, thank you so much. Read live by the author on publication day. What an honour. How are you feeling? Congratulations. I feel amazing. I feel amazing.

Yesterday we went to some bookshops and I saw Rosewater there on the shelves and I think there's no feeling like it really. Yeah, congratulations and massive congratulations because it's beautiful. Thank you. And that extract is with me, Elsie. feeling like it yeah congratulations and massive congratulations because it's it's beautiful um and that extract uh is we meet elsie she's been kicked out of her house because the bailiffs have come around she's been picked up by her best friend juliet who is elsie who is elsie who is elsie elsie is all of the things i think that you described in the introduction she's someone who is really confident in who she is in in terms of

her voice her talent her poetry it's a space that she is able to say I think the things that she's not able to say with the people in her life outside of that space um you know she's sure of her queerness she's sure of her blackness but it's like life and the world keeps getting in the way of her being able to achieve her potential and fulfill her dreams and take up space in the ways that she knows she deserves to. But yeah, she's someone that I think readers will find frustrating at times. Why? I think because she's stubborn, you know, like a lot of us. She's really, really stubborn.

She finds it hard to ask for help. She finds it hard to be vulnerable. She's had to be independent from a really young age. She's had to really have her stuff together. So the idea of not being able to provide for herself or to do for herself purely on her own is something that is terrifying for her. So, you know, this is a love story, but it's really about it's about different kinds of love. But it's also about two people who are not always able to see or meet each other because they're very much in their own lives um and coming from two different places um so yeah yeah like you say it explores love in many different facets doesn't it it is a love story what fascinates you so much about this

important part of our lives i'm a romantic that is obvious yeah i i love love I think love is such a deeply important and transformational part of our lives and I and I say that um to talk about not just romantic love which I think is so important but I also think familial love I think the love that you have with chosen family with people that you meet and also you know with your family and and intergenerationally those those are all really important parts of our lives and Elsie has a lot of support in a lot of different places with kind of older generations of queer black women with her best friend with her grandmother um and they all provide different levels of support and different things for her um but they're all deep and they're all really important she's not always able to see that she has all of this love kind of surrounding her because she's in so much pain and because she's she's struggling and

when we meet her she's going through something incredibly tough and incredibly challenging but even if she can't see it we the reader know that she is surrounded by you know this kind of these great loves and it takes time and I think really she has to go on her own journey of self discovery and you know yeah coming back to herself to really be able to see the love that is like literally staring her in the face, you know. I love this that it's set in London and South London. And it's interesting that we've been talking so much about the cost of living crisis and it opens up with her being kicked out of her house. The bailiffs have come round. just a reality of being a young person trying to make your way in the world today.

Yeah, yeah, and she's trying to make it as a poet, as an artist as well, which is not an easy thing to do. And she works in a queer bar, in a queer space where she's not making a lot of money. The reality of making money in the arts is that it is really kind of challenging and she does the odd job, but it's never quite enough to get her to where she wants to be or where she needs to be at least kind of in the beginning um and those are really very real very real things you know and and you

know money is a theme throughout the book actually and finding home and she has uh this relationship with her oldest best friend juliet who's the woman who comes to pick her up in the bit that you've just read. There's a tight bond, but even though they have a very contrasting upbringing. So what is it that connects them? Well, they have this deep bond that this deep bond that kind of started back in the day and in primary school, right? And in secondary school, right? And Juliet was really supportive of Elsie.

And she kind of we don't go too much into the backstory because this book really happens in the here and now, but she really kind of was supportive of her when people were teasing her or going through things around her sexuality and all of that sort of stuff. So they had this really deep bond and this really kind of fierce love for each other

and she also had a really strong and close relationship with Elsie's mum and her family, just as Juliet had a really close bond with Elsie's grandma and her family and they've loved each other fiercely and they've always been in each other's lives and even though when we meet them we can tell that there's been this sort of awkwardness yeah or like this thing that has been unsaid and this distance and this gap that they've had between each other the love really kind of continues to be there it's it doesn't need to be spoken. It is just felt.

And I think I have had a lot of those kind of gorgeous relationships with a lot of my friends from a very young age who are still so important. And it's not, I don't necessarily see them all the time, but the love is just there and it's continuously felt. And Juliet's a primary school teacher and a cam girl to earn extra money. Yeah, she is. Explain that situation.

Is this something you've come across? Women camming on the side of their day jobs just to make ends meet? Well, I suppose Juliet's in an interesting position in that she has, like, security. She has, like, a family that's helped her to get on the property ladder. She has that kind of foundation. But, yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's something that a lot of my friends have done a lot of um people that I know have worked in this field and it's something that she's choosing to do and that she's empowered in doing um and that Elsie considers

doing um and also watches Juliet doing at one point and that's a moment where she's kind of like oh wow I'm looking at this person in a way that I didn't know is this okay um so yeah there's a lot of sex and intimacy in this book there is a debut novel very how was that a writer going this is it I'm just gonna write it's difficult to write yeah it it is i mean i think you've done it brilliantly thank you oh my god thank you so much yes um i think i think sex is an important part of life and i think the different kinds of sex that elsie has in this book it really tells you a lot about um about about who she is as a person yeah and each each form or moment of intimacy it looks very different

like she's very sexy and confident she knows how to talk to women she knows how to get what she wants she knows how to like be in control and then when she sleeps with b they kind of meet each other on a more loving level playing field and then when she sleeps with um you know the other person that she sleeps with that it's it's more of like a vulnerable moment where it's it she's not in that like that place where she's necessarily having to hold it all together and that tells you something about what each of those relationships looks like but in terms of the process of writing sex it was something that I really enjoyed I think I I think um like authors like Sally Rooney for example, are so good at writing sex scenes.

And I wanted to write scenes that felt really believable and honest. And I hadn't read any queer sex scenes. Not a black woman? No, I hadn't. No, me neither. I hadn't. I hadn't. And so it was important.

But it was really all of those moments had to tell you something about the character. It wasn't just, you know, for the sake of throwing something saucy in there. How much did you enjoy the writing process? I loved it I loved it I had the best time I really did have the best time I think at the point at which I kind of came to sit and write Rosewater I was ready to explore this part of my kind of creative practice and myself and I was going through quite like a challenging period in my life my dad was sick and it was a really beautiful and important space for me to have that was separate to that um that just made me so happy like I loved every part of it you know yeah it comes through were you very disciplined oh I was because I was like I've chosen to be a

writer so I have to make it work and I set myself deadlines I have an amazing agent Abigail Bergstrom let's give her a shout out she's literally incredible and an amazing publisher in Charmaine Lovegrove but amazing amazing amazing and we were just disciplined she you know she'd been with me for six years and I hadn't yet written a book so she was in it for the long game um and we took our time and we edited and we finessed and then yeah well that's that's belief in your talent that's very good and it's the first book to be published by John Legend's publishing company Get Left Good you met him um I have met him now yeah I met him he had a gig in London like a

couple of weeks ago and we went we had amazing seats um I met him afterwards and I'm going to be doing an event with him in May as well in LA to mock the launch of it and the US publication but yeah all a bit all mad and you know surreal but kind of just brilliant exciting exciting but you know you've always been at the forefront of so much you were the founder and the former editor of Galdem the online and print magazine for women of color stepped down as ceo in 2020 recently ceased to exist due to financial pressures the twitter feed is full of people saying what happened it's sad to see it go what what's the legacy of gal dem i'm sad to see it go i personally was devastated when it wasn't um what's its legacy i think the legacy is huge and i think when you in it, you don't necessarily realise the kind of impact

of what it is and what it has done. And I think seeing the kind of outpouring of love and support and also the amount of writers and creatives and people who have really grown with the platform. I think all of us really grew a lot with the platform. I was 21 when I started it. So in a completely different place and space, right? And it's been really beautiful to watch the trajectory

of all of those writers and creatives just taking up space in the world. And I hope that it serves as a reminder or a blueprint that, you know, just not to be fearful and really to take up space and to just try things out because it was just, you know, a little idea that I had at 21 that grew into something quite amazing so and she's still only 20 it's remarkable and the public directory is

being created to highlight some of the people Galdem has worked with there's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of names in there so that people can see can see work with support you know bring on to projects because people always say there aren't any you know but there are loads yeah and so you've handily put together a directory we've got to mention because there's some beautiful poetry because of course she's a poet and the name of the poet who has written a friend of yours who did yeah they're amazing amazing gorgeous talented human being um and a friend and i had written the book and I knew that this character was a poet and I had a few kind of spaces where I wanted these poems to sit

and I knew what I wanted them to say and to be about. And there was only one voice that I pictured, which was Kai's. Kai has such a talent for making you feel so many things, like just really in your heart, you know um and the sexiness all of it and so kai read the read the book and loved it and then we collaborated on the poems and what has been produced is absolute magic i want to wish you all the best of luck with it it's a sublime read it's called rosewater it's out today it's by live little you'll have to come back and tell me about all the other projects you're going to be working on because I know you've got lots coming up.

Join me tomorrow for Woman's Hour. Rachel Weisz is on the programme. That's all for today's Woman's Hour. Join us again next time. What happens when a life coach takes over your life? For the last 18 months, I've been investigating claims that a UK mentoring company is actually a cult. What we're doing is helping human beings actually gain control of themselves, not for us to gain control of you. I don't know who I am anymore, bro. Absolutely no idea.

The only money he had to give them was his house. Controlling its members. It was more about apportioning blame to my parents. These toxic groups called families. Intimidating critics. When I'd ask questions. They said, if you leave and you turn against us, we have all those personal recordings of yours.

We'll come for you next. How do you feel, Paul, about the fact that so many people think you're running a cult? We're not running a cult. Because they don't know what a cult is. They're slewing us. They're smearing us. I'm Katrin Nye, and from BBC Radio 4, this is A Very British Cult. Listen on BBC Sounds. I'm Sarah Trelevan, and for over a year, I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered.

There was somebody out there who's faking pregnancies. I started, like, warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this?

From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.