Woman's Hour - Disabled women in lockdown, Rape in Nigeria, and Troupers

Episode Date: June 4, 2020

As we move to ease lockdown restrictions in this country, and look ahead to the “new normal”, there are a large number of people who are still very much in lockdown. Many people with medical conditions that make them “extremely clinically vulnerable” to COVID-19 are “shielding” for a minimum of 12 weeks. Shielding means staying in your home and not leaving for any reason, not even for exercise or to get food. How are disabled women finding this experience, and are they getting the support they need? Katie Pennick is a disability activist and journalist. She spoke to three other disabled women – Fi Anderson, Sarabajaya Kumar and Amy Kavanagh - to see how they have been affected. The next in our series celebrating the women who get things done – the Troupers. They are very bad at blowing their own trumpets so we are doing it for them. Mairi MacLean was born in the village of Morar in the Scottish Highlands. She has been campaigning for years to provide somewhere to play for the local children. Her friend Alison Stewart is keen she gets recognition for her efforts. And the rape and murder of a 22 year old microbiology student in a church in Benin City Nigeria has caused outrage across the country. Uwaila Omozuwa, who was using the church as a quiet place to study, was rushed to hospital after the attack but died last Saturday. A march protesting her death took place in Benin on Monday and #JusticeforUwa has been trending on Twitter. Amnesty International says that Nigeria government’s response to rape continues to be woefully inadequate. So what needs to be done to prevent sexual violence against women in the country? Jenni is joined by Osai Ojigho, Country Director of Amnesty International in Nigeria.

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BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, Jenny Murray welcoming you to the Woman's Hour podcast for Thursday the 4th of June. Good morning. As the restrictions of lockdown begin to ease a little, what's the position for those considered extremely clinically vulnerable to COVID-19? Women with such disabilities have been shielded, which means not leaving your home for any reason. How are they finding the experience and what support have they had?

And the next of our troopers, the women who see a need and fill it. Today, it's Murray McLean and the voluntary work she's been doing for her small Highland community. Earlier this week, a march protesting the death of Uwala Omizuwa was held in the Nigerian city of Benin. Uwa's rape and murder has caused outrage across the country. She was 22, a microbiology student, and she was found last week in a church she'd been using as a quiet place to study. She was rushed to hospital after the attack, but died last Saturday. Hashtag justice for Uwa, hashtag stop raping women have been trending on Twitter and have

been followed by the names of other victims of sexual violence. It's estimated some 2 million Nigerian women and girls are sexually assaulted every year, but few of those cases are reported, let alone prosecuted. What needs to be done to prevent such violence against women in the country? Osai Ojigo is Amnesty International's Director in Nigeria and joins us from there. Osai, what exactly

happened to Oua? Oua had gone to study at a church where she's also a member of the choir and she was discovered in a pool of her blood and taken to a hospital. This was last week on Wednesday. So it was while they were still treating her for assault wounds because they thought it was a sort of robbery or theft, they now discovered she was also sexually violated. And that was when the outrage really gained momentum because it was clear she was violently raped and then in order to hide their crime the perpetrators hit her on the head with a fire extinguisher in order to silence her. She died sadly on Saturday and the news of her death really resonated amongst a lot of us who have been working under COVID to raise the government's response to sexual and gender-based interventions in the country.

We know, as I said, that other victims' names have appeared on social media, so there are more victims of sexual attack that have happened recently. Who are they? Yes, we have Jennifer, which happened in the northwest part of the country. A young girl that was raped, allegedly by four men. There's a case of a 12-year-old girl who hasn't been named because she's a minor and who was allegedly gang-raped by 11 men in Jigawa in northwest Nigeria as well. And also other cases are emerging, the most recent being a student who was at home as a result of COVID in Badoo in southwest Nigeria, who was raped and then starved to death in her home.

So we're seeing series of these attacks coming out in the open as the government is easing down the lockdown. Now, I know that Amnesty has said that the government response has been negligible. Why have you said negligible? Because they're not prioritising the issues of sexual and gender-based violence against women. In fact, we were shocked that in Uwa's case, the police statement was that we're investigating a murder. They've been silent in their statement in referring to it as both a rape and a murder. And it goes to the fact that there's this apathy amongst police officers that they cannot successfully investigate and prosecute rape cases. And so as much as possible, there's a tendency for them to neglect victims and their families

when they come to report and instead convince them to drop the cases or to find some ways to gain compensation from the alleged rapists and their family. So this is a trend. And yet we did hear from the Lagos State Domestic and Sexual Violence Response Team, and they told us that 90 convictions were secured last year for rape victims. Are things improving? I think that there have been a few cases like that when they come into the public foray, they do get attention. But 19 cases in a state like Lagos, where there's over 20 million inhabitants, it's literally a drop in the ocean. And a lot more needs to be done to address it.

And because the system is so slow, they cannot catch up with the number of cases that comes up every day. And that is what is shocking. We've also been told that very few women are prepared to report their sexual attacks. Why might that be? Majorly because of stigmatisation. They are afraid that they wouldn't be believed. People tend to ask them where they were, what they were doing, what hour of the day the incident happened.

And so it kind of challenges society's view about piety for girls. So they feel that coming out would be shaming themselves and their family. And that's why it's really important to raise awareness that the law enforcement especially, and medical practitioners that are the first point of call when rape victims are sent there are not shamed for sharing their story. What forensic testing is available for those who do report? Because we've also read that it's very difficult to get forensic testing done and sometimes women are expected to pay for it themselves. Yes, that's a big challenge. Rape kits were developed some time back

in order to support the investigation and documentation of sexual crimes. But you find that not every police station and not every government hospital has those rape kits. And as a result of that, things are done quite hard work, or they may do it whatever they have. And then preserving the evidence is also quite challenging. And this has also contaminated some of the materials that the police have used in order to prosecute the case. The police are underfunded, and they tend to ask victims and their families for what they call mobilization fees, basically to cover transportation,

to cover visits to the hospital, as well as something as simple as paper and pen in order to file the complaint. So it's a multitude of challenges that rape victims face when they try to seek justice. We know that last year a sex offender's register was launched. What difference has that made? I think it's still too early to test the sex offenders register, but it was a welcome development. The reality now is that there was a lot of awareness that if you are caught and you are convicted, you will get into the register. And it actually brought about a lot of debate. And across the country, we know that many people are now more fearful about being on the sex

offenders register than being caught because they realize it has long-lasting effects but it's still too early to see what the impact should be and whether it should be as effective partial and independent as we want it to be. Osayo Jigo, thank you so much for being with us this morning and explaining what's been happening in Nigeria. Thank you. We did, of course,

try to contact the Nigerian government and ask for a statement on their intentions. So far, we've received no response. There are links on the Women's Hour website to organizations that can help in cases of sexual violence. And also, I thank you so much.

Now, still to come in today's programme, lockdown for women with a disability. What support is available for those who've been shielding because of extreme clinical vulnerability? And the serial, the ninth episode of A Run in the Park. On Tuesday's programme next week, we'll be looking at the first uk study of violence against grandparents if you are a grandparent and you've suffered in this way we would really like to hear from you what triggered the violent behavior what support have you had and what kind of reaction have you had from the police if you reported the problem please do get in touch with us through the website and of course we won't name you if you don't want us to

and now the next in our series celebrating the women who get things done the troopers marie mclean was born in the village of moora in the scottish highlands if you're familiar with the film local hero moora is where it was shot marie lived away from the village for a while not far away but around 20 years ago she went back and found some of the things on which the community had depended were past their best or had gone altogether. We heard about Mari from Alison Stewart, who was keen that her friend's volunteering work should be recognised. We'll hear from Alison in a little while, but first, Mari. It's a very small village, some 200 people, at the end of a very remote peninsula, 40 miles away.

It was bypassed probably about 25 to 30 years ago. And as a consequence of that, the post office closed, the tourist traffic declined and eventually the village hall fell into disrepair. At this point, the Skype line that I was talking to Mari on began to crackle badly. We switched to the phone. Mari, hi. Hello. So, Maura, it has a film claim to fame, doesn't it? Oh, it does, yes.

Local Hero was filmed in the area quite some time ago, probably in the 80s, I think. You're going to Scotland, McIntyre? Yes, sir. The old country. So the area is famous for its white sand beaches, right? And it's actually an extremely picturesque area. And of course, Moorah also has the UK's deepest lake, or loch as we call them, Loch Moorah. So we have the deepest loch, we have the finest beaches, we have a few redeeming features.

All these lovely natural redeeming features aside, there was something that the town of Moorah was sorely lacking. Across the whole peninsula, there wasn't really a full-size playing field for football or shinty as is played here in the Highlands. It's a Highland, or Scottish, I should say, game with a stick, rather like hockey, when you live in a remote area with a very low population density. If you want to raise the competitive bar in sport, you really do have to think about encouraging young people from elsewhere

to come and play on the field. The bypass that cut more off from tourist traffic and cost the village its post office has been the villain of the story up until this point but when it comes to the playing field it did have one surprising opportunity to offer. When the bypass was constructed it led to a piece of land being reclaimed from the sea, which was designated as being suitable for a playing field. It was a rough piece of land. It was left just as the contractors had left it.

So the village got together and fundraised and created a playing field out of it. Because the village hall had become derelict and had asbestos problems, it was decided it needed changing rooms, showers, that sort of thing. Am I right in thinking all the people of Morawant is a sports field that they can access? That's right. And given that this is Scotland and not the Bahamas,

somewhere where the players and children can get changed into their kit. Yes, exactly. It's actually impossible really to take young children to a playing field that doesn't even have as much as a toilet. Simple enough, you'd think, but of course the story didn't end there. In the fundraising process for that, we discovered that the access road to the playing field had been built on land that didn't belong to the field. A land exchange had to occur before anything further could be done, and this has taken some 10 years to achieve. You have worked on getting this playing field for your village up and running. I mean, not alone with others, but you have worked on this for a decade. And more, and more, yes.

Okay, so more than... From the beginning, it's 20 years. And actually, I'm wrong. Prior to that, there was a group prior to me. So it's been ongoing for nearly 30 years, I think. Can I ask you what it's like to work on a campaign for that long? Well, it's a test of endurance, really. And there are always great supporters.more we are a trust we have a membership a significant number of the of the villagers probably about 90 percent of the

villagers are members and they're generally very supportive so this was sent to me by Alison Stewart. I think you know Alison. I do, yes. She told me about you and she said this. One of Mary's real strengths, I think, is in identifying and securing appropriate pots of funding for local projects, something she is particularly good at. She is well aware of the need for communities to become increasingly proactive and do things for themselves, otherwise they're just not done at all. Yet, despite all of her community work, she is rarely in the spotlight, so I think it's time to put that right. Are you feeling a little bit embarrassed? Yes. bit embarrassed yes praise indeed do you foresee the facility being built at some point in the next

say i don't know decade yeah yes yes i do um i do indeed yeah why do you keep going? And how? Determination. It's just what small communities do, what rural people all over the country actually do and struggle with all the time. Well, somebody has to do it. Murray Maclean was talking to laura thomas most of us i think are beginning to breathe a slight sigh of relief as some of the restrictions of lockdown are eased you can travel a bit further

to see people invite a couple of friends to your garden and even go out to shop for something other than food or medicine but for one large group people, there is no such liberty on the horizon. They're people with medical conditions that make them extremely clinically vulnerable to COVID-19. They're shielded for a minimum of 12 weeks, which means they can't leave the house for any reason, not even for exercise or to get food. How are disabled women finding the experience and what support are they getting? Well, Katie Penick is a journalist and activist on the part of the disabled and uses a wheelchair herself.

She's spoken to three other women in similar circumstances to hers. Katie first. My name is Katie and I'm a 24 year old disabled campaigner and journalist. I'm currently shielding and I haven't left my flat in North London at all for over 70 days. The government regulations and restrictions around lockdown are forever changing and can be quite confusing. Now we've been told that people who are shielding should continue to take precautions but can now leave their home if they wish so long as they are able to maintain strict social distancing. I know for myself and for millions of others in a similar position, it still doesn't feel safe to leave the house.

Today I am joined on a video call by three disabled women to find out how lockdown is impacting them and their day-to-day lives. My name is Fee Anderson. I'm communications manager for a non-profit supporting parents with disabilities like myself called Enable to Parent. I'm also in the extremely high risk group and I'm shielding at home in Greater Manchester with my husband and two primary aged children. Hello, my name is Sharbha Jaya. I'm a public policy academic at UCL. I teach about the non-profit sector and leadership. I'm also shielding in the clinically high risk group and I am at home in North London with my husband and my son, who are also shielding. Hi, I'm Dr. Amy Kavanagh. I'm a visually impaired activist and campaigner. I am not shielding, but I am facing many challenges in accessing the world now that we're in the new normal.

Let's talk first about the immediate changes and impact that this has had. Fi, how has shielding affected the way that you organise and receive the care and support that you need? Everything kind of went upside down the day lockdown came into effect. Suddenly I had all these extra responsibilities to do with my personal assistance. I of course had my two children at home all of a sudden and trying to juggle my care needs was challenging in the beginning until we got into a routine. Some of my PAs were afraid to come in because nobody knew kind of what they were doing and we weren't really given any instructions. I'm on a scheme called direct payments where I self-manage my own care with a budget given to me by social care

and we didn't get any kind of instructions until about two weeks ago on what to do with our personal assistants, which are, you know, the carers, which should have really been grouped in with the whole support that they were given to care homes and things like that. Carers out in the community kind of got forgotten about. I mean, before lockdown, what help did your carers provide? How many hours did you get and how has that changed? My package is 33 hours a week. But yeah, it's kind of made it so I can only have two PAs rather than a team of four.

And this issue on PPE, how does that work? Who provides the PPE? For people on direct payments, we are told to source them ourselves. You're not given any instruction on what kind of brands of masks and things you're supposed to provide your personal assistance with, whether they need to be the same grade as NHS workers working with COVID patients directly, or whether they can, you know, be OK with like a plain old surgical mask. We were just told your PAs must have PPE and you need to sort it and pay for it yourself which was very very stressful because obviously I care a lot

about the people coming in and out of my home and it's my responsibility at the end of the day being on direct payments to make sure they're safe as well as ourselves. So the direct payments documentation that came out about two weeks ago says that anybody who's on a ventilator, which I am at night, their PAs need to be fully gowned up. And I'm talking about aprons, face shield, the whole shebang. And if you can can imagine I've got young children and you know it's not been possible yet for PAs to come in wearing all this but can you imagine how intimidating that is for my little girls and of course I want to keep my PAs safe but I don't know where to get this stuff from and I haven't got the extra funds to buy it. I mean

apparently people on direct payments were supposed to be given contingency money to pay for PPE but I haven't been given any and neither has several people I know who are on the same scheme. We're just kind of sourcing it ourselves little by little on amazon and ebay well we did reach out to the department for health and social care to comment on this issue and a spokesperson told us the government is working around the clock to protect the most vulnerable in our society and it is vital that personal assistants receive the ppe they need to safely provide care and support if direct payment holders cannot source PPE as they would normally do, the relevant local authorities or clinical commissioning groups

should support them in accessing it using national supply lines. Fi, you mentioned that you use a BiPAP ventilator machine to breathe at night and I've heard reports of shortages of equipment for these machines has this affected you yes unfortunately it has I didn't realize it affected me until I rang to try and um get um some spare supplies which I normally do every few months and nobody was answering the phone um I later found out from a friend that goes to the same clinic as me that the clinic had been turned into an ICU for COVID patients. So patients with neuromuscular conditions like myself who need ventilation

and have that sort of, I guess, high need at home were just left. So what are you doing with together with the people that you know are also running short how how will you get around this? We've had no choice really but to establish a a Facebook group and kind of put our supplies kind of in a pot, a virtual pot, and try and help each other out by sending bits and bobs back and forth to each other that maybe someone else has, say, got a spare filter, but maybe I've got a spare tube and we swap. Obviously, you know, clean, not used stuff. But, you know, we'll all have different stashes of things,

but eventually we won't be able to help ourselves never mind each other. Sravaja you are also in the extremely high risk category but you live with your husband and 21 year old son so what precautions do you have to take within your own household? So my son came back from university when they sent all the students home so we had to self-isolate from each other and when I see them still we do keep two meters apart particularly if they have to pop out at all and And I'm really confined to the front room, really. So you all sleep in different rooms? Yes, yes. And also I have my meals brought to me.

I don't go in the kitchen. My husband and I share a bathroom and luckily my son has his own. So every time we use our bathroom it's cleaned before the next person needs to use it so there's a lot of cleaning a lot of work going on and I think that's been very challenging particularly for my husband because he's also a high-risk person and we're also working. So, you know, it's felt like a lot. It's felt like a lot, I think.

And how has shielding affected the care that you receive? So I do receive a package as well from the local authority and had a carer. But when the whole thing kicked off she and was also concerned and I was also concerned we had a a chat about um about the situation really and I with much reluctance let her you know let her go because she goes into multiple houses, she travels on public transport, she didn't have PPE, she couldn't get testing. And I just felt that it was making us far too vulnerable for her to come and look after me when we've got three people in the house who are all potentially high risk of hospitalisation if we contract Covid. She herself felt it was very difficult as well. And we had quite an emotional parting, actually,

where we were both sort of tearful. But, you know, I just felt there was no choice. And how has that affected things at home for you? You know, how are you managing to get the support you need without her? Well, I'm very dependent on family, really, and I try to do as much as I can, but I do find it extremely exhausting. So she used to help with my bathing care and things like that,

and I do do that alone, but as soon as I've finished, I feel like I'm ready for bed again. Amy, not all disabled women necessarily fall into this high risk category and aren't shielding. You're one of them, you're not shielding but nevertheless how have things changed for you at home? So I'm not shielding, I don't have any underlying health conditions, but I am visually impaired. And I think that there is a large group of disabled people who haven't got these letters, may have health conditions or disabilities that are having a real impact on the way that they are living now. For myself, I've basically lost my independence.

I now can't go outside without my sighted partner who lives with me. He's having to do a lot more caring responsibilities around the house and also out and about because I cannot practice social distancing. I can't see two metres away. My vision isn't good enough for that. I don't have depth perception. So in the first, you know, early weeks, I did go out by myself, but I found it really challenging. People were still walking into me. My cane was making contact with people, which meant that they weren't two meters away because my cane is only 125 centimeters long and I tried to go to the shop and found it really challenging

so I'm feeling quite isolated it's affecting my mental health quite a lot I live with anxiety anyway and this situation makes a lot of that more challenging at the moment. And you mentioned there about, you know, those people that didn't get that letter. Do you think there has been enough support for those disabled women, including blind and visually impaired women, who aren't vulnerable enough to be on this list but are nevertheless really struggling to do the weekly shop? Absolutely. You know, blind and visually impaired people were not

recognised early on as people facing particular barriers during this crisis. I have friends that waited five weeks to get on online shopping lists when they physically could not access the shops. I think there are a lot of people who will have had some really radical changes to the way that they can be independent and their ability to navigate the world in the way that they are used to doing. So yeah, I think there is a really big forgotten group of people who have a whole host of different barriers and challenges. You know, there's 13.9 million disabled people in the UK and it's anything from a mobility impairment meaning a new cycleway is blocking a dropped curb a new inaccessible shop because you're visually impaired or somebody who's neurodiverse that is just finding the wealth of information really

overwhelming and challenging. Sir Abhijay because you and your family are shielding how have you managed with buying and getting food? Did you struggle at all at the start? So I think the first three to four weeks, we just managed through WhatsApp group, through asking neighbours, through sort of asking people if they would mind picking something up from the local shops for us and you know it really made me feel much more disabled than I'd ever felt before it made me feel very vulnerable and as a family you know it was really challenging because food and shelter are basic needs so that was very difficult in the beginning and then when I did get you know some

volunteers to help I also had some very mixed experiences of that too some were absolutely fantastic and others were not and then there was some safeguarding issues as well around that and around handing over money and all those kind of things. So it was very, very difficult for the first three to four weeks. We're on week 10 now, or I'm on week 10. And the other day I was thinking I just, I needed something out of my handbag. And I got my handbag from where it was, where I'd left it, which was hanging up on the inside of my front door. And I realised I hadn't opened it in 10 weeks. And it was like looking into a time capsule. I opened it up and I found rece hadn't opened it in 10 weeks and it was like looking into a time capsule I opened it up and I found receipts in there from when I last left the house over 70 days ago um which for

me was a trip to B&Q to get some plants and the receipts I was looking at even had the name of the person who was working on the till and I thought god that might have been the last social interaction I had with someone in the outside world who wasn't my partner. Yeah I feel the same about my white cane you know my white cane is hanging up on my coat rack and normally that is it's in my hand every single day every single day when I'm traveling into central London when I'm on the tube, when I'm going shopping, it's like an extension of me and I know people who use mobility aids will be very familiar with that and you know I am using it occasionally when I do leave the house because I have the privilege of being able to leave the house albeit not on my own and it's a skill set, you know, using a white cane, I had to learn how to use my white cane, I had to take lessons. And I'd only started using it three years ago. And I was finally feeling that I'd really, you know, nailed it, I'd really got this independence. to lose those skills because going out by myself and using the skills that kept me independent

it's just so anxiety inducing I find myself not wanting to go out and I'm worried that it's going to become a long-term problem that I'm just going to be so overwhelmed by the prospect of going out and bumping into people and potentially encountering hostile interactions. V, you're a mother to two very young children, four and seven. How have you juggled these additional asks and responsibilities? I found that in the early days it was going quite well the first two weeks. We seemed to get into a routine with homeschool and things while I was trying to juggle the PPE situation. But then as I realised how full-on homeschooling is when you have a disability as well, I suffer with chronic pain and fatigue. So there would be days where I just couldn't do the homeschool and that made me feel like I'd failed

and the children when when I kind of go downhill that kind of takes them out of their routine and it's like a domino effect. I mean do they understand what's going on how do you explain this strange strange situation to them? my oldest seems like she understands one minute but then i think when she's struggling emotionally to deal with what you know how she's taking everything to do with her she realizes how isolated we've all become so like when my my husband takes them out on the daily walk she she'll keep asking me, are you coming this time, Mama? And I'm like, I'm sorry, darling, it's not been 12 weeks yet. And she's like, why do you have to stay in?

And then I kind of have to have that really awful conversation about what COVID-19 would possibly do to me. And I have to describe it in an age-appropriate way that's not going to scare her, but is going to make her realise that I need to be shielded. Amy, you mentioned about how you're having to sort of depend a bit more on your partner. You certainly can't leave the house now without him. How has that impacted upon the dynamics there of your relationship gender roles you know what has what has changed there it feels very frustrating

obviously my partner is lovely and I love him very much and he's very good and supportive you know when I first lost a little bit more vision He even did some training how to guide me safely. He's the best person to do it. But you know, it makes me feel so much less independent, and so reliant. And a lot of my identity is about, you know, being an adult and being an adult that goes out the house to work. And yes, you know, being a blind person navigating the tube, that's really hard, but there is such a satisfaction in completing that journey to work every day and feeling like I participate in society

and that I'm, you know, a valuable member of society. You know, I have friends and hobbies, and I'm a member of the Women's Institute, and, like, you know, I do volunteering. And it's just taking quite a toll on me, and it is reminding me of more difficult periods in my life, when I was feeling very isolated, when I wasn't leaving the house because of mental health issues.

And I'm trying to be very aware of that because those things could resurface and really affect my well-being and you know like we said it could slow down that transition back to normal life. And Sarabhajaya you said there that you're not able to be in the same room really or stay you have to physically stay very away from your husband and son imagine that that means you won't have been able to hug them in this time and not being able to properly spend time with them how has that impacted your relationships as a mother and a wife yes that's right I mean we haven't hugged we we sort of do virtual hugs across the room that kind of thing and I do say oh let's break it and you know just do it but they're very strict about it because obviously they're worried as to how it will impact my

health it's not me I'm a very cuddly person and you know I miss it so much. I really relate to what you were saying about you know sort of really relate to what you were saying um about you know sort of really wanting to break the rules and then having you said your husband and son like no you know and being more strict about it there have been so many times where I've been sort of gazing out of my window and I've just said oh go on I'll just go out just for just for a little one just a few minutes go on I'll just open the door I'll just a lap around the block. No one will know. And my partner's been like, come on now, come back, come back inside, stay away from the window. But it is, you know, is kind of exercising that self-restraint is incredibly difficult. But feet, you know, I know very much that having some degree of control and an agency over your over your life of your body of

your care is so important and I know you've had to make so many changes to how you do things at home how has how have those changes how has this all had an impact on you psychologically mentally um the past couple of weeks I've been feeling quite low, to be honest. And anybody who knows me quite well, I'm very optimistic. I used to go out most days in my power chair and I go up and down the country usually, going to conferences and working with various charities and not having that kind of escape and that purpose, you know, it all kind of just fell away. And you don't appreciate how being outside really helps your mental health and your happiness until you lose it.

So, yeah, I've been trying not to kind of get depressed about the whole situation. But I think it's kind of like moving that light at the end of the tunnel further and further away. Sabra Jaya, what positives, if any, do you think have come from this period? Well, there are a few. I am certainly better connected with my street and my neighbourhood

and have met some fabulous people through who are volunteering for mutual aid groups so that's that's been really good it is very interesting isn't it that when we've asked for reasonable adjustments to be able to work from home or do more online work that disabled people in the past have been told it wasn't really possible or it was very difficult and it was all possible overnight really so I think that people have now understood that it can be done and so I think that is a very positive thing. Amy what about you what positives do you think have come from this period? So I would agree yeah I've had some some really nice community interactions um you know we've got to know our neighbours a lot better the other day somebody from our street actually banged on the door and said

you know socially distanced oh just to let you know a big branch has come down overnight and it's lying across the pavement here and that kind of thing would never have happened before you know people suddenly being a little bit more aware of some of those challenges that might be out there because they faced some restrictions on their own lives now of course spending weeks in lockdown is not the equivalent of a disability but it is giving people a perspective on what it's like to have a barrier to be able to freely choose what you want to do and that barrier being out of your control and I've started an online pub for disabled and non-disabled people and it's called the staying

in in with two n's it's a pun. And it's been amazing. You know, we've had hundreds of people join us, do all sorts of different sessions. We have a weekly pub quiz, but we're also connecting people and sharing skills. We've had a British Sign Language lesson and we've actually recently had a disability advocacy session where we're equipping the disabled community

with some of those skills and rights that we might need to fight with over the next few months. And Fi, finally, what positives, if any, do you think have come from this period of time? I think people, and us included, have become more grateful for our families, for our own health and for our freedom in general, whether you have a disability or not.

And I think, I hope that people will remember this time and what we went through and realise how treasured these things should be and not instantly forget when this is all over. That report was by Katie Penwick and there are links for help and advice on the Woman's Hour website. We had a huge amount of response to this discussion on disability and lockdown. Marie said this is so powerful I really feel there are people who have been forgotten during this pandemic Hannah said I just wanted to say thank you for including the piece that just aired on women in lockdown who are disabled it's nice to know you aren't alone and I hope as well as one of the contributors said

that this helps able-bodied people understand our lives we can never do everything we want to do and now everyone is in the same boat i hope that people remember this after covid wales council of the blind tweeted to say dr amy kavanagh today giving a powerful description of how covid19 has affected her as a vision impaired person and taken its toll on her confidence but has also had some positives. Georgina said I am shielded because of lung disease. As soon as the government announced shielding groups were allowed outside my employer asked when I was coming back to work shielding hasn't ended yet. Sue said, I'm staggered to hear so many vulnerable people shielding and struggling

on today's Woman's Hour, when I've had no more than three requests to support people after becoming a volunteer on the NHS Royal Voluntary Service since the government request. I'm here and well and available and clearly need to reach out in other ways to support, which I will do, horrified at the lack of coordination. Nicola said, my daughter Sophia was diagnosed with MS last year, three weeks after her 16th birthday. During her GCSEss she lost her whole summer and year having become paralyzed and then a long period of rehabilitation and now lockdown it's been incredibly challenging shielding a teenager who wants to see friends and get her life back and also manage her care in lockdown Sophia is a determined

young woman and has worked hard to walk fully again, but life has stopped. Rosie said, brilliant feature, thank you so much. I particularly related to a lot of what at blonde historian said about the worry of losing the skills to navigate the world. Rebecca and I wrote, very pleased to hear your piece on those shielding in the extremely clinically vulnerable group this morning. I am one of these too. But it is important to note that only a proportion of us are disabled. Many are shielding due to medical conditions and or treatment such as cancer, autoimmune disorders or transplant status. I have lupus and lung disease. It would be good to have attention to the non-disabled shielders too. And Susan said today's feature about the very

vulnerable in lockdown was interesting and revealing but excluded a representation of someone in this position but living alone. My close friend has just been through chemotherapy just before lockdown and lives alone. She has no carers, so has relied on friends and her daughter. She's finding it difficult, but has taken up painting and is trying to stay positive, which isn't easy.

There must be so many others like her. Well, thank you for all your comments on this morning's programme. Do join me tomorrow at three minutes past ten when I'll be talking to Dr Helen Chersky about her autopsy of the North Sea, finding out exactly what we human beings have been doing to pollute the seas, not only in the North Sea but all over the world. That's tomorrow morning. Join me then if you can. Bye-bye.

Hello, I'm Tim Harford, the presenter of More or Less. And I believe that if you want to understand the world, which is a very big, very complicated place, then numbers are an absolutely essential tool, like a telescope for an astronomer or an x-ray machine for a radiographer. Numbers answer questions we can't answer in any other way, such as how safe is a home birth? And yes, we check the facts. What are those lying politicians lying to us about this week?

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