Woman's Hour - Elite rower Helen Glover, Leader Interview: Carla Denyer, Les Amazones d'Afrique, Ozempic

Episode Date: June 14, 2024

Earlier this month, the British Olympic Association announced the 42 athletes selected to represent Team GB in rowing at 2024 Olympic Games in Paris. Among them is the two-time Olympic gold medallist Helen Glover competing at this level for the 4th time as part of the Women’s four. In 2015 Helen was ranked the top female rower in the world and went on to become the first mother to row for Team GB in 2021. Now having had three children she has her sights set on the podium once more - joining the ranks of other athletes who've achieved sporting success after having a family - cyclist Dame Laura Kenny, sprinter Shelly Ann Fraser Pryce, and tennis players Elina Svitolina and Serena Williams. Helen joins Anita Rani.In the next of the Woman’s Hour interviews with the leaders of the main political parties in the run-up to the General Election, Anita speaks to Carla Denyer, co-leader of the Green Party of England and Wales. Weight loss drugs are now easily available on line with dozens of pharmacies including Boots and Superdrug offering them. For women weight loss is a multi-million pound industry with so many of us concerned about the numbers on the scales. Ozempic and other drugs involving semaglutide are available on the NHS - only for patients who are severely obese or who have type 2 diabetes. But this morning there are newspaper reports stating that some healthy weight young women, who don't have these conditions, are buying Ozempic to get ‘beach body ready’ and ending up in A&E. Doctors report seeing increasing numbers of people of a healthy size using weight-loss injections — with life-threatening consequences. Dr Vicky Price is a consultant in acute medicine and president-elect of the Society for Acute Medicine.Meltdown festival opens at the Southbank Centre in London on Friday. Anita Rani hears from one the acts selected by the legendary American singer/songwriter Chaka Khan. It's the pan-African, all female super group Les Amazones d'Afrique, who shot to global fame in 2017, when President Obama included one of their songs among his 20 favourite tracks of the year. They were formed in Mali in 2014, with the goal of campaigning for gender equality and eradicating ancestral violence. Presenter: Anita Rani Producer: Kirsty Starkey Editor: Karen Dalziel

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme, peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, I'm Anita Rani and welcome to Woman's Hour from BBC Radio 4. Good morning and welcome to the programme. It's Friday and we have a real treat for you here in the studio. Les Amazons d'Afrique, a pan-African supergroup, are here and they're going to be singing live. I have shivers already. In the second of our party leader interviews,

we're joined by co-leader of the Green Party, Carla Denya. How are they trying to attract your vote? And Olympic rower and all-round superwoman Helen Glover will be talking to me about returning to the Olympics after three children. And it's Father's Day on Sunday, and we often talk here on the programme about how we need to include men in the conversation so this morning i'd like to hear about the male role models in your life let's name check them let's hear about their qualities that they have or they had tell

me about the stand-up dude in your life who you admire and why you admire them do you have a brilliant forward thinking of old father did you see your father love your mother and pull his weight around the house and with the children? Or your grandfather or your husband? Maybe it was a teacher. Of course, not everyone has a positive experience and you're free to share that with us too. Get in touch in the usual way

while celebrating the male role models in your life today. The text number is 84844. You can also email via our website, or you can WhatsApp me on 03700 100 444. Also, we wanted to congratulate Naomi Klein on winning the Women's Prize for Nonfiction. And of course, to American author Vivi Ganesanathan, who picked up the Women's Prize for Fiction for a second book, Brotherless Nigh. Naomi spoke to us earlier this week about her book, and you can hear that interview by going to Women's Hour for the 6th of June on BBC Sounds.

That text number, once again, 84844. Get in touch with me about the male role models in your life, but also about anything you hear on the programme. We'd love to hear your opinions. But first, weight loss drugs are now easily available online with dozens of pharmacies, including Boots and Superdrug offering them. Celebrity users like Sharon Osbourne and Rebel Wilson have apparently been fuelling demand. For women, weight loss is a multi-million pound industry with so many of us concerned about the

numbers on the scales. The manufacturers of the most well-known brands, Azempic and Wegovy, have become Europe's most valuable firm. Azempic and other drugs involving semaglutide are available on the NHS only for patients who are severely obese or who have type 2 diabetes. But this morning, there are newspaper reports stating that some healthy weight young women who don't have these conditions are buying a Zempik to get beach body ready and ending up in A&E. Doctors report seeing increasing numbers of people of a healthy size using weight loss injections with life threatening consequences. So to understand this more, Dr. Vicky Price, who's a consultant in acute medicine and president-elect of the Society for Acute Medicine, is joining us now. Good morning, Vicky. Let's start. I think we should start with the negative side effects of these weight loss drugs, really, on people who do not need them for medical reasons. What are the dangers?

Good morning and thank you so much for inviting me on and to talk about this because I think it is really important. And as a doctor, seeing these beautiful young people come into A&E with these complications is heartbreaking, really. And we do need to raise this as a serious issue. So the side effects are vast, as you can imagine, that they're quite wide ranging. And it can start off with people feeling nauseous, constipated and not so well. And you can go all the way through the spectrum to the things that we're sometimes seeing in the emergency department and the acute medical units, which can include a high level of acid in the blood. So a sort of starvation ketosis. Well,

what that means is the body, because it's starving, is now processing food in a different way, which increases the level of acid in the blood. And that can be extremely dangerous if not treated promptly. And we're also a rare side effect of this as well is pancreatitis, which is an inflammation of your pancreas. And that can actually be fatal, unfortunately. So these are really serious complications and obviously the the rarer complications we see less often but we have seen them sadly so it's really concerning me and um it was last week when i was thinking gosh it's pretty much being talked about now every shift that i'm doing. So it's a big concern. Gosh, that regularly. So what are you seeing on the wards? So I'm an acute physician. So I'm sort of at the front door, as it were. So we work within the A&E

department, seeing the medical referrals. And happily, most of these patients we can sort of get home after giving them some fluid and some treatments. But we are having to admit some of them as well. And talking to colleagues around the country, this is, you know, a problem all over. So people will come in having not eaten for a few days because the way these drugs work is to suppress your appetite. So often when people don't eat, they also get very dehydrated and then can enter this sort of phase of starvation and get all the complications associated with that. It can also get low blood sugars as well, leaving them feeling lethargic. And of course, that can make people confused and then they might not seek help appropriately.

Is it predominantly young women that are coming through that you're seeing? And what are you saying to them? And what are they saying to you about the reasons they're taking them? So this is one of the big problems because obviously some of them are embarrassed. Some of them are ashamed. Some of them clearly have some what we call body dysmorphia, which means when they think they look a different way to how they look. And so they clearly need some mental health support with this as well. Some of them are very open and honest. And of course, when people are frightened, they do tend to be quite truthful with us.

But it's a plea to sort of all doctors out there to think about this in young people presenting with these strange symptoms that it could be this. So, yeah, it's a variety of things. And some people, a colleague was talking to me about somebody who didn't say what it was and it took quite a long time to work out why this particular patient was so poor. So they wouldn't they wouldn't reveal it. Yeah, they were embarrassed and thought they'd get into trouble because they've lied often to get these drugs because they lie about their weight and the height to get the figures right to fit the criteria. So where are they sourcing these weight loss drugs? So it is a variety of places and sadly there's some that are getting it from less than reputable sources so some people are telling me that they're getting it when they get their Botox with their beautician appointments and then other people are getting it online from what you and I would think of as

really reputable places and just sort of putting figures in that aren't right and uploading photographs that don't reflect what they actually look like. What worries me is that it's seen to be safe if you sort of ask some questions for people to fill in and then say, oh, put your GP details. And GPs have quite rightly turned around and said they are not safety checking this. This isn't, you know, they can't possibly. And then also, you know, if I prescribe a drug tomorrow for a patient, I'll be looking at things like what their kidney function is, what their liver function is, because, of course, medications react differently in different people. But where's the safety check on this? It feels

very unregulated. And as a society, the Society for Acute Medicine have stated, and that's largely what was said in the press this morning, that please can we have better regulation of these medications? They can be incredibly dangerous so how common occurrence is it that people who are taking these weight loss drugs are turning up that you're seeing turning up poorly from side effects and uh and is it on the increase oh you can't hear me oh vicky's uh somehow lost uh we can hear you though but you can't hear me um still can't hear me no we've lost connection i can see her but she can't hear me it's fascinating conversation if if if you know somebody who this has happened to um we would like to hear from you 84844 is the number

to text we also have a statement from boots um Boots Online doctor weight loss services for patients aged 18 and over who are worried that their weight is impacting their health to access prescription treatment to support with weight loss. Patients are required to complete an online consultation which is reviewed by a Boots Online doctor clinician to determine if treatment is appropriate. We have a number of safeguards in place to ensure Boots Online doctor prescribes weight loss medication where clinically appropriate and in line with the product license that's a statement from boots i think we can go back to vicky now vicky can you hear me no we've lost her okay uh moving on then uh here on woman's hour we have plans to speak to the

leaders of all the main political parties in great Britain in the run up to the general election. On Wednesday, Claire spoke to Reen Apurweth, who leads Plaid Cymru. Today, it's the turn of Carla Denyer, co-leader of the Green Party of England and Wales. Carla, welcome to Woman's Hour. Thank you. Good morning. Why should women vote green? Well, I think the Green Party has a lot to offer women voters. Our manifesto includes an offer of equal pay and flexible working arrangements,

an increase in the carers allowance, which of course is relevant as so many women are also unpaid carers, making misogyny a hate crime. That's a campaign that was led by our former deputy leader, Amelia Womack, that we've been campaigning on for a number of years, prioritising resources to end domestic abuse and violence against women and girls, extending the government's existing free childcare offer to 35 hours a week for children nine months and onwards, and supporting more women into politics so that we have better representation

and can stand up for these rights and more. But there's also policies throughout our manifesto, which, while not explicitly aimed at women, will benefit women absolutely, because women are more likely to be on the minimum wage, which we're proposing to raise to £15 an hour and removing the ageist cap for younger adults. Women are more likely to be unpaid carers, as I mentioned, they're more likely to be earning less than £50,000 and therefore benefit from our reforms to the tax system. They're more likely to be public transport users and therefore benefit from investment in buses, more likely to be public sector workers,

especially in the NHS, and therefore benefit from increases to public sector pay. So there's an awful lot that the Green Party offers. And of course, also in things like green skills and green jobs. My background is engineering in the renewable energy sector. And I and the Green Party want to create more opportunities for women and girls to get into green training and green jobs as part of our green economic transformation. Because reading your manifesto, in the entire thing, the word women appears eight times in 48 pages. That's it. So we wonder where we are and do the Green Party actually care about women's needs? Well, as you've just heard, there's a wide range of policies in the Green Party's manifesto and in our practice of how elected Greens across all levels of government have worked over the last few decades. Policies that work in the interest of women.

And I don't think counting the number of times that the word appears is reflective of how inclusive our policies are as a whole and how they'll make our whole society fairer and more equal for women and girls and fairer for everybody. I mean, your party are putting forward 250 women. That's around 43 percent of your candidates. Was this a priority for you? How have you done it? Yes, it was. And we've we've had meetings and work closely with organisations like 5050 Parliament and Elect Her. And I'm a strong campaigner with both of those, taking part in events with them. We were aiming for 50% women candidates.

We didn't quite manage to get there. Last I checked, we were doing the best of all the major parties in England and Wales, though I haven't seen the final numbers from the other parties. So while we didn't quite reach our target, I am still quite pleased on how we did there. And I do take personal responsibility for this. When I joined the Green Party in 2011, it wasn't originally to stand for election myself as a politician. I just wanted to help out behind

the scenes, deliver some leaflets and so on. And it was only when some Green Party members approached me about standing for election. And I said no originally. Why? Because I didn't see myself as a politician. Honestly, I didn't think that I had the policy knowledge necessarily. I didn't think I was politician material. But fortunately, the people that saw that potential in me, they didn't take no for an answer. And they asked again and other people asked.

And I think in the end, I was probably asked about half a dozen times before I said yes. And so now I try and make sure whenever I get the opportunity that I pass on that favour to other women and also to people of colour, disabled people, young people, all kinds of people who are underrepresented in politics. If I see potential in someone, I ask them to stand. And if they say no, I don't necessarily take that as their final answer. Let's look at some of your aims and goals. Your party had one MP in the last parliament. So what would success look like for the Green Party on July the 5th? We are standing a record number of parliamentary candidates across England and Wales, 574. That's the same number as Labour and the Liberal Democrats and actually more than the Conservative Party. So everyone pretty much across England and Wales will have the opportunity to vote Green. However, we recognise that realistically, I'm not going to get the keys to number 10,

unfortunately, at this general election. So we're focusing our campaigning resources on four constituencies where we've got a very good chance of winning. So that's Brighton Pavilion, where the brilliant Caroline Lucas is standing down, and my predecessor as co-leader Sian Berry is campaigning hard, hoping to be elected there. I'm standing in the constituency of Bristol Central, where I live. And then my co-leader Adrian Ramsey is standing in the new Waveney Valley constituency in East Anglia, and former MEP Ellie Chowns in North Herefordshire. So those are four seats across quite an interesting range of demographics and geography where the Greens have got a good chance. So you're gunning for four seats. So would a vote for Greens elsewhere be wasted?

No, it wouldn't, because every vote for the Greens shows politicians what you're looking for um it puts pressure on the other parties to to to take not only green policies but policies around a fairer society you'll have you'll your listeners will have probably heard me on the tv debates making the case for a fairer economy something that labor isn't really offering well we don't really want to talk about what labor isn't offering let's talk about what the our listeners could get from you. So let's delve a bit deeper into things that our listeners are very passionate about and care about. Maternity care. Last week, there was a post by the Green Party that seemed to suggest one way of saving NHS money would be to stop intervening in childbirth,

cutting down on procedures like C-sections. This post was then taken down. Why was it taken down? And what are women supposed to take from that about how the Green Party are going to support them? So let me start by clearing up the confusion around this. This policy is not in our manifesto. It was never going to be in our manifesto.

And just to clarify, it wasn't a post. It was a policy that had been on our website for a number of years. It was adopted by our members at conference, but it was a bit out of date. I can understand and clearly see that it has caused some confusion and upset, and I understand why. And I'm really sorry for the anguish this has caused for some women, especially those who might have been through difficult childbirth and especially had caesareans themselves. My priority and the priority of the Green Party is making sure that all women and anyone going through using the health services has access to the health services they need, that people have choice over what happens to their body, advised by experts,

has access to the health care they need. The biggest challenge facing maternity services is the chronic underfunding over decades of our National Health Service. And that's why last week we launched our health and social care policy with an announcement that we would invest £50 billion a year into NHS and social care and that includes making sure that these services are properly funded and properly staffed. And I'm going to ask you how you're going to do that but before we do, where do you stand on maternity care? We think that the pivotal point is that women have the right to choose, it's their body, their choice with expert advice of course and recognising that sometimes in childbirth

it isn't a choice sometimes there is only one choice and if medical intervention is needed that's the right thing then that's the right thing. So and you talk about the NHS and how it should be funded according to you but before we get on to that 50 billion number what about women's health we know it's underfunded under research compared to men's so what would the Greens do about that? We do. That's absolutely right. And I think that is a, honestly, that is a consequence of consistent underfunding in the NHS and also in higher education and research, all of which we would invest into, that when budgets are pressed, research into new areas and testing is undermined. Where's the £50 billion going to come from?

Well, the Green Party, unlike the other parties, are quite prepared to be honest about making our tax system fairer to pay for investment in public services. So we are proposing three main changes to personal taxes. The centrepiece of that is a wealth tax that only applies to billionaires and multimillionaires, those with over £10 million in assets. And even then, it's quite a modest tax on those. Also changes to capital gains tax to make pay fair by equalising the taxes you pay on income from assets

with taxes you pay on income from work. We think it's terribly unfair that those currently are not equal. And some changes to national insurance. And those combined would raise £50 billion to £70 billion a year by the end of the next Parliament. Now, Carla, there have been accusations of anti-Semitism made against candidates standing for the Green Party. Do you think your vetting procedure is fit for purpose

and do you stand by all your representatives? Let me start by saying I of course abhor antisemitism and there's no place for antisemitism or any form of racism in society or in any political party so it's something we take very seriously. Whenever cases have been brought to our attention as a party They've always been thoroughly investigated and appropriate action taken. I can't comment on individual cases because as leader of the party or co-leader, I rightly have no role in that independent non-political process. But I can assure listeners that appropriate action was taken whenever cases are brought to our attention. Research shows women worry more about climate and the environment. How confident are you that the next government will do what is necessary to arrest climate change?

Unfortunately, with the U-turns the Labour Party has been making... It might not be the Labour Party. Well, over 100 polls have predicted that it's the Labour Party. And while one shouldn't put too much weight on individual polls, it is looking pretty clear that the Tories are toast. They're on their way out of government. So Labour will form the next government. And the benefit of voting Green is getting that handful of Green MPs elected who can hold the next government to account, push them to be stronger on areas where they've rolled back. Thank you very much, Carla Denya, co-leader of the Green Party in England and Wales. And there are full lists of candidates for all constituencies on the BBC website.

Our interview with the leaders of the main political parties continue. Keep listening to us here on BBC Radio 4. I catch up on BBC Sounds. And speaking of the election, we want to hear from you. Because next Tuesday, Woman's Hour, we'll have a special extended 90-minute programme where Nuala will be putting your questions to senior women from the main political parties in our election roundtable debate. You can get involved by telling us the issues you most care about. What are your priorities for future government policy? Where do you want the money to be spent? And what are the issues you think are being ignored in the party manifestos?

Let us know because we will put those questions to the politicians you can get in touch in the usual way our text number 84844 our social media is at bbc woman's hour or and we'd really love this why not send us a voice note we can put your voice directly to the politicians our whatsapp number is 03700444 now lots of you getting in touch because it's Father's Day on Sunday and we want to name check some of the men in your life. They are part of the conversation. My father is 87 and he has mixed dementia mid-stage. I love him to bits and have been so close to him all of my life. I'm 59. I feel I have personally lost my father as i knew him i'm struggling with this and many people say don't take this change in his personality personally but i miss him and his old

self liberal strong lovable father love your dads and that's from an avid listener julie thank you for that message julie another one here i spent most of my life trying to please men and constantly failing to meet their unrealistic expectations and demands. First with my critical and punitive father and then with a critical and punitive husband, getting unwanted sexual attention from men whom I thought to my friends and being made to feel responsible for men's feelings to the detriment of my own. Father's Day is not a happy day for me. And another one here that says my stand-up male role model is my younger brother ben apart from his genuine attitude of equality and championing the

education of his daughter as a strong powerful person and supporting his other child in their gender identity and autism for many years he was the main child care child care giver while my sister-in-law worked um His faith and compassion and concern, yet also his humanity and humaneness humbles me as a sister 12 years older. On top of all of this, he's lived with a cancer diagnosis and intermittent treatment.

He has a great sense of humour too and is a very creative music maker, apparently. Hope we grow more men like Ben. Keep your messages coming through the text number 84844 oh i'm excited yesterday on the program we heard from the legendary american singer-songwriter shaka khan who's celebrating 50 years in music this year she's also curating the meltdown festival 2024 at the south bank center in london you missed it, you can find that interview on our website and BBC Sounds. Today, my guests are one of the acts Shaka has selected for the festival. It's the pan-African, all-female supergroup Les Amazons d'Afrique, who shot to

fame around the world in 2017 when President Obama, no less, included one of their songs in his 20 favourite tracks of the year. They were formed in Mali in 2014 and they're going to perform live for us in a moment. But first, let me introduce them all to you. Mamani Keita, Alvi Bitemo, Fafa Rufino and Jeremie Adenji. Welcome to the studio. It is wonderful to have you here. Fafa and Jeremie, you both speak fluent English, but Mamani and Alvi, I know you understand. So please feel free to respond in French. This is Radio 4. There will be listeners who will understand.

But Fafa, you can translate. So I'm going to begin by coming to you, Fafa. How did it feel when you found out that Shaka had chosen you to perform at the Meltdown Festival? Well, we were surprised. And also, I don't know how to say it. It was something, it is huge for us, you know, that she chose us, she chose the Amazon D'Afrique. That means a lot because Shaka can for is she's a

legend for us in africa and yeah we felt like she she felt what we want to say as amazon as warrior and she's a warrior too so to be chosen by a big huge warrior that means a lot for us. What does the word warrior mean to you? Why is that an important word? Warrior means, for us, warrior means voices rising to stand for their rights, for women's rights, for child rights, for little girls' education. Warrior means women that can raise their voice to stand against bad tradition in Africa.

Because we have good tradition, but we have also bad tradition, like female genital mutilation, so excision, forced marriage, and violence against women, rape, harassment. You know, we have so much we are fighting for we are fighting for you know so yeah wario means that all that we don't need our weapon is our voices and our music we're going to talk about those issues in a moment but jemma ria let tell me about how you formed because you are pan-african you're all from different countries so how did did you come together? Okay, this is a very interesting topic. Some time ago, somewhere in Bamako in Mali,

our beautiful manicator here, Umusangari, Mariam, they came together and then they formed this amazing group just named Les Amazones Afrique, which the message is to make sure women are liberated across Africa. And here we are today. This group became just beyond Mali. And now Les Amazon has had features like Angelique Hedger, you know, Nekar, to name a few. And so this group is doing exactly what it was created to do. To liberate women.

To liberate women across the globe. So when it started, I don't know if the vision was this big, but yes, it came to life. And here we are, my man is still standing and strong. And we are here supporting that vision. Yes, of the Amazon, the Africa. Yeah, because you have a goal of campaigning for gender equality and eradicating ancestral violence. Yes. Tell me more about that.

Okay, I'll tell you this. Ancestral violence does not really necessarily mean what you see or hear. But there's a whole lot of things hitting our cultures that has to be eradicated completely because they they seem normal to to to people in africa at this time but they are really absurd like i can tell you in some part of um africa often i mean just of recent that stopped they didn't believe in even the twin. It's like, yeah, there's so many things. There's so many things like this is evil.

Some didn't believe in... They didn't believe in twins? Having twins, yes. It was almost like a taboo. So what would happen if a woman had twins? I don't want to go there right now. Which countries are we talking about? Because I'm always reluctant to say Africa because it's a continent, right? It's a continent, yes.

Some cultures are very bizarre. That's why we call it standing against the ancestral, you know. Because it's... Yeah, it's... Cultures permeate. It's cultures, yeah, here and there. But the truth is, look, I'll say some cultures, they believe, even I see somewhere in Nigeria where if the husband died, died at the time, the younger brother can inherit the wife.

You know, like, oh, wow. Yeah. And that's against the woman's wish. And then he just takes over the woman without asking like, oh, the culture says you become my wife and so be it and this woman has no voice whatsoever to challenge this or argue this does this still happen uh yeah in some places yes but they try to make it keep it really quiet and that's why we are speaking because if it's not talked about then it's not happening right so you're giving these women a voice and highlighting it. Sorry, we didn't finish. What happens if you have twins? I'll keep that for right now.

Oh, really? Because it's too much to talk about. Yeah, it's a little tough. I'll keep that. Sometimes you might offend some cultures when you... I can see that you're all nodding. I'm not going to talk about that because my mum went through this.

So it's very deeply personal. Let's talk about your mums actually because you've spoken openly about female genital mutilation. It's a topic we talk about a lot on Woman's Hour. In fact you've written a song about it in Yoruba.

Can I read out the translation? The song's called Fights. Yes. And let's not accept that women's lives are destroyed. It's time for us to speak openly in order to stop all this bad practice. I'm not going to stay silent against this. Look how this little girl suffers.

She has pain in her body. Stop all this. It's too much. Why did you want to write specifically about that? Because this song is a true story. I have one of my little cousins who went through... I didn't want to talk about this because it's a true story. And my cousin, the mum, she was living in the village.

She didn't want them to go through a decision. They were little. They were five. And she and her best husband didn't want that. And then she went to the river. And by the time she got back home, their grandmother and the aunties, they just excised the little little girls and they were bleeding.

And it was very awful. And she called my mom. We were living in the city. We were living in Kotonou in the city. And they were living in the village in the north of Benin because the north of Benin is Muslim, all Muslim. So then she called my mum because she knew that my mum was against this and has been fighting against this for her whole life. And then we just, we took the car with my mum and we went there two days after

and the girls, they were sick. Anyway, it was hard. I can see it's hard for you to talk about. Yeah, all these images of the... can see it's hard for you to talk about yeah it's because i have all these images of the yeah yeah traumatizing yeah yeah yeah so i wrote this song because um i never talk about it but when we had this album coming i needed to write it down it was a kind of therapy for me as well because you know you are 12 years, you have 12 years or 14 years and you see

that, you see your little cousins going through this and you know that you are lucky actually, you know that you are lucky, you are the lucky one so you know You are lucky Fafa because your mum sounds quite amazing. My mum went through this so

she didn't, because I have a little sister, so she protects us from all those things a lot. I was reading that she said, even to your father's family, to her in-laws, if you touch my daughters, I'll put your son in prison. Is this true? Did she say this? She even said more than that. I'm going to kill you all with machete. With a machete?

Yeah. If you touch my daughters. Yes. Because she knew what happened to her body after this so well isn't this fascinating because we often talk about how it's women who uphold the patriarchy it's it's women that do it to young women so the fact that your mother had the power to say no to stop yeah break the cycle I think that she got that power because, you know, my mom, now she's 82. So to have that... What's her name?

Marijan. Marijan. So for Mary Jane in English. And for her to have the possibility, the right to talk, it's coming from... Because she's, in French, we call it chef de collectivité. Her mom's side, they are royalty. Right. She's from a very well-to-do family.

So she can talk. She's allowed to talk. She can say no to some stuff. She is allowed to know, but not everybody can talk. So, yeah, she did this for us, and it was not easy for her to do that. But anyway, I'm a kind of legacy. It's a legacy for me.

Do you feel you have the same power as your mother? Well, you have a voice for sure. Here you are using it. And it's been 10 years since the group was formed. Are you seeing change? Yes. Are you seeing a positive impact? Yes.

Tell me how. As we can see, the world is opening up to women. Now we talk a lot, thanks to programmes like Women's Hour. Thank you. And you coming to speak to us. Thank you. Because for real, you know, we're all talking now, we're all putting our voices out there.

And music is such a powerful tool because the more you listen, it goes into your subconsciousness and you know that, wow, something is really happening. And then such issues being spotlighted. We get lots of women come and say, thank you so much. Thank you so much. And then it's like you just open their soul up. Some are even abused.

They do not even know they're abused until they listen. And they're like, oh, wow, this is really happening to me. And I've been accepting this for so long. And finally, you're like, yeah, I'm not taking this anymore. You wake them up in their mind yeah their brain and and that's the idea that's that was the whole idea here to make sure that we like break women even you know because there's so many form of abuse it's just not physical it's mental there's emotional this i mean you name it so all of this put together we're able to like yeah that's what we put our

emotions into the music because some of us have experienced this abuse as well. And then I know what it means to keep quiet when you're being abused. Sometimes you even deny it to yourself. You're like, it did not happen. Because in Africa, they're going to ask you, if you're raped, they're going to ask you, what were you wearing? You're like, huh? I mean, that's a question that's asked of women the world over.

Yeah. Okay, thank you. But yeah, it's actually bigger down there. Because, I mean, here, you know, people dress nicely. But there's like, what were you wearing? Why were you there? It's like, you have to answer all these questions. Like, it's your fault that you were raped.

It's your fault that you were abused. It's your fault. Because why were you there? What were you wearing? Where did you go? Do you know him? And yes, you do. He's my uncle.

He's your this. He's my that. But all of that is still your fault as a woman so right now we're getting better we have therapists now we have coaches we have so many resources to go to and you have fearless women like yourselves coming together to talk about this every day and through music through music do you feel powerful when you come together? Maybe it's with... Yeah, let's ask my... Absolutely. Ama.

So she asks if with the Amazons of Africa we feel powerful, strong, together. Ah oui, très forte. Very powerful. Très, très forte, oui. How about you, Alvi? Et toi, Alvi? On se sent très forte parce qu'on est unis sur la même cause. Very powerful. How about you, Alvi? We are powerful because we are together,

and we stick together, and we are four and even more, so this makes us even more powerful and stronger. Oh, we're going to feel the power and the force of the four of you together in the studio. Can I just ask, what languages do you sing in? Did you have to learn each other's languages? How many languages have you got between? Wow, we sing in... Mamani is from Mali.

Yeah. Alvi Bitemo is from Congo. So she sings in... Lingala. Lingala. Mamani, she sings in Mb. Yeah. Alvi Bitemo is from Congo. So she sings in Lingala. Lingala. Mamani, she sings in Mbambara. Mbambara. I'm Yoruba from Nigeria.

Nigeria. And I sing in a couple, oh wow, because I speak almost seven languages. So I mix them. So a little bit of Yoruba, of Bariba from North Benin, and Fon, and away from Ghana, I mix on. Amazing. Incredible, incredible, powerful, wonderful, beautiful women. Thank you, Mamani, Alvi, Fafa, and Jemirie.

Thank you, and good luck at the Meltdown Festival with Shaka Khan, and come back any time. Wonderful, wonderful to have you with us. Wasn't that special fantastic you should see them perform i'm sure we'll put clips up on instagram you need to see it as well as hear it lots of you getting in touch to celebrate um the men in your life um i want to give a loving shout out to my brother daniel who is gentle kind and patient father after being parented by a difficult and aggressive dad ourselves let's give major kudos

to every dad who breaks the generational generational cycle of violence and parents in a different way that's from ruth in london uh thank you they're just leaving the studio um it was magic that moment um male role models another email message here saying my male role models are three men that i had the privilege to call some of my closest friends. The four of us have been friends for 15 years, through which I've watched them leaving our tumultuous young years behind to become loving husbands and fathers. Despite growing up with the most useless and dysfunctional fathers, they are caring, loving, responsible fathers themselves because they choose to be one every day. Them allowing me in their boy circle and sharing their journey with me is truly one of the biggest gifts in my life. And another one here.

My lovely dad drove buses seven days a week in Dublin in the 1980s to send me to medical school. It's thanks to him and of course my beloved mum that I am still loving my work as a doctor some 40 years on. He even got me a job as a clippy in the summer holidays to help support me i thank him every day and i also have a statement here from super drug and this is the conversation we're having at the beginning of the program about a zen pic and how doctors are seeing a rise in predominantly young women coming into a and e with side effects and consequences because of taking

the drug and a statement from Superdrug says in the Superdrug online doctor weight loss journey there is a doctor and patient interaction before every prescription is generated. Patients first have to complete a questionnaire which includes information about their BMI and medical history. Patients are then required to validate their BMI by submitting photos of themselves for our doctors to review. It's also mandatory for them to provide their GP details, which are used to notify them with every prescription. Our GMC registered doctors then review their information after every request and ensure the treatment is suitable

for the patient before prescribing. Now, earlier this week, the award-winning singer, songwriter and actor Paloma Faith came into the Woman's Hour studio to tell us about her new book, which delves into the issues that women face today and details some of Paloma's own experiences, including sexual awakenings, her IVF journey, battling the expectations of patriarchy and the super mum myth. She talked to Claire about why she decided to be totally open and honest about some of her parenting challenges. You talk about experiences many women euphemise,

but you talk about it frankly. You talk about what actually happens to your body. And you do that on many, many stages, whether it's IVF, whether it's, you know, childbirth. Why did you decide... My haemorrhoids, that's a popular one. Your haemorrhoids, that's a good one. That's a popular subject. Why did you decide? My haemorrhoids, that's a popular one. Your haemorrhoids, that's a good one. That's a popular subject.

Why did you decide to do that? Because many people don't. Many people just kind of say, this happened and move on quickly. I detail it because I think it's really important, because I felt quite isolated going through those things. And it wasn't until I started to speak to other women about them, that they were like, yeah, that happened to me. Yeah, that happened to me. And I feel like you feel less alone when you're having these frank conversations I think it's very British not to discuss these things and it leads to isolation which I think made my postpartum depression worse and just general feelings of loneliness and despair and all those things. And I think the moment you normalise them, you feel better. And I feel like it's really important that we don't just feel that we have to be this kind of social media-worthy presentation

of what a parent or mother should be. You know, there's a chapter in the book called Giving Into the Chaos, and there's like a catharsis that comes from actually saying this is normal like it's normal to be completely bedraggled covered in your kids formula milk powder or like losing it or just like sometimes crying in front of your kids it happened recently to me where I was just sort of weeping and I was trying not to draw attention to it. My seven-year-old was like, why are your eyes watering? And I just think those moments are really important

because we're not alone doing that and we're not failures when we do that because our best is good enough. Wise words from Paloma Faith there. Well, I'm going to ask my next guest about all of this because she's she's quite something last week the british olympic association announced that 42 athletes selected to represent team gb in rowing at 2024 olympic games in paris among them is the two-time olympic gold medalist helen glover who will be competing in the paris games named as part

of the women's Four. This is going to be her fourth Olympic Games. In 2015, Helen was ranked the top female rower in the world and she went on to become the first mother to row for Team GB in 2021. Now she's a mother of three and she's returning with competition in her sights once more. You're in good company, Helen, though. Welcome to the programme.

Welcome to Woman's Hour. Other mums who have gone back, cyclist Dame Laura Kenny, sprinter Shelley-Ann Fraser-Price, tennis players Serena Williams. You know, well done you. Why did you decide it was time to get back into training? We've just heard Paloma Faith talking about

feeling bedraggled, weeping, what every mother knows you go through, and here you are making time to train to get back to the Olympics. Yeah, I loved hearing that, actually. I love that kind of, there is that sense of camaraderie, I think, around parenthood. If you look in the right places, it really is there, and I really feel that kind of um I think as an

athlete you maybe get pigeonholed a little bit into being a superhero and this person that's very different from other people and I really have never felt that since I started my Olympic journey and even more so now I'm a mum there's this potential of super mum and I'm like you don't see me most days you see the shiny moments and you see the team announcement but uh yeah you don't see me most days. You see the shiny moments and you see the team announcement. But yeah, you don't see the mess and the chaos of the everyday life. I'm sure. Yeah, you are a mum, you're a mum. And that puts you in a certain gang. But I would also argue that you are a bit of a superhuman as well. So it's a rare morning off for you today.

What would you normally be doing? Well, I've done, today's been a bit of a chaotic day. I've done two hours on the bike this morning. But then my youngest two had an asset and their nurse reassembly so I went to their assembly um I popped back home for this and then I'll do my second session after this so uh it's one of those days I'm just trying to make everything work juggle juggle everything at the same time uh because you have quite a do you normally have quite a strict routine don't you you kind of have to do because to get the training in.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we train three times a day. And so two of those sessions are with my teammates in the boat. So there is that kind of inflexibility in terms of I really want to be a good team player and the best teammate for my crew. And I also want to be the best mother I can be. So we've made a really kind of I guess flexible arrangement around the afternoon so I'm always there for school pickup the third session is on

land because it's either weights or on the rowing machine or on the bike and that third session I fit into my own time. So how early does an Olympic mum have to get up to start training? Well I'm up at around six but to be honest the kids are up about five at the moment anyway so it doesn't really it doesn really make too much difference. And it's Father's Day on Sunday. And we've been talking about, you know, various people getting in touch, sharing stories of the sort of male role models in your life. And you're married to Steve Bagshall. So how does it work and how important is the role that the two of you have in parenting together?

Yeah, honestly, the balance between me and is is the reason I've managed to come back for Tokyo and it's definitely the reason I'm going to come back for Paris is that um we just try to always make sure one of us is home and it's quite tricky with the the jobs that we have but obviously our children are the most important thing and our work comes second so honestly some days it's been high-fiving out the door as I've come home for a training camp and he's off on a filming trip and for the next block from now until the Olympics Steve is home he is home and he is perfect in charge and yeah so and he's he's kind of made that work and and put things aside to make it happen so yeah definitely in terms of um father's day he's definitely a super dad has motherhood changed you as an athlete on a literal level?

I mean, you have time, you're training around your three kids, but also physically returning to rowing. Yeah, there's definitely that practical element, which is the most obvious difference. Physically, I think I'm better than I ever have been. And I didn't think I'd be sat here. I'm turning 38 soon. I've got three kids. I'm not, I'm not in this sort of optimal state of life balance that you would imagine an athlete to have, but I'm still performing personal best. I'm still going better than I ever have been. I honestly think there's something that changes in you and whether

it's psychological, maybe I think I have maybe a bit of an offload of the pressure as well. Cause I'm, I get to come home to my kids and forget that I'm a rower you know there's the balance of life is different but it's definitely working for me I know I just wonder what's happening physically then like you said not that 38 is not old at all but you'd think it was going the other way but here you are telling me that you feel fitter than ever yeah and I think that I definitely think something changed in me when I had children I don't I can't put my finger on what it is. But before when I was in my 20s, I was training full time. If I had a sleepless night, the next morning, I'd be really affected by it. And my performance would be obviously down from it. But string together night after sleepless night, and I'm, I'm going in, I think, something, you know, when you, I don't know when don't know, I think about when I had young children, they were babies, and I was in that almost that fight or flight survival mode.

And I feel like maybe that's just continued now that my children are four and five. I feel like that's maybe continuing on and I'm in that fight or flight. And I just kind of, I guess, keep rolling through it. And yeah, I definitely feel like something changes. And maybe it's psychological as well. And what about the way you think about competing now since having children? In one sense, every time I've raced, it could be,

if you dropped into my mind, it could be the me of 2012, 2016, 2020. Fundamentally, I haven't really changed. I'm just as competitive. But I almost feel like I've got this extra edge to me. Not only can I think of my kids and my family and it's the motivating factor, but it's also a factor that takes the pressure off. It's quite freeing. I know I can cross the line and my kids may not even know and probably won't even care where I've come. They just want to give me a cuddle. And I think it's really freeing and it allows me to kind of go I'm gonna go out and try and make myself proud but actually at the end

of the day it kind of puts into perspective what matters and it's not it's not all sport for me. In the past you've said I want to be an elite athlete and a mum not an elite athlete despite being a mum. How do you think mothers are seen in elite sport? Do you feel like you're perceived differently? It's hard to say because it's really changing all the time. There's really a growing list of people who are coming back after childbirth. And I think when you prove a point, I did fine when I went to Tokyo. Rather than just the energy into my kids and into my training,

I had to pour a lot of energy into proving people wrong and now that I feel that's done I can put all that energy back into into training and I think that it is changing really quickly all the time and the more people that go back and I also think it's, sport is a reflection on society and this kind of expectation that no door should be shut to you when you reach a certain age, when you reach a certain stage of your life,

if you choose to start a family. And I think that's the most important thing for me. When I look around at my teammates, not all of them, and probably most of them will not choose to come back after they have families, but every single one of them should have the choice. And I think choice is the most liberating thing.

It's freeing to know that there is a choice there. And I think that's the same in society as well. I'm just going to try and connect the dots with the beginning of the programme and talking to you, Helen, because we started by talking about the rise in young women taking a Zen pic to get beach body ready. It's a quick fix and actually ending up feeling quite poorly because of it. Now, you know, do you see yourself as a role model? Would you like to see more young women being encouraged

and older women and mums getting into sport and exercise? Definitely, yeah. And I do think we're on the cusp of the Olympic Games. It's going to be coming up in a few weeks time. And it's this amazing shop window of all different shapes and sizes represented. Every single person there is training, fueling, eating and recovering to be the best they can be. And the way they look is a byproduct of that. They're going to look the way they need to look to function in what they want

to do. And actually, I think celebrating the different shapes, sizes, bodies is so important because we don't all fall into this one very, very narrow margin of what society thinks we should look like. We just don't. And the biggest representation of that is when you walk into the olympic village and you look around and you see every single woman is represented here um and it's just it's so empowering and i think it's really really important for for women but especially for young girls and for teenagers to see very powerful message absolutely and um dina asha smith took gold at the European Championships last weekend. Good honour. What's the atmosphere like in Team GB? How are you all feeling? Oh, it's so exciting. We've got so many amazing athletes.

And I think across all the sports, there are so many amazing stories as well just to follow. And so I do feel like as the Games gets closer, those stories are going to come to the forefront. And it's just an amazing team to be part of. And a lot of us when you talked about fueling there a lot of us would associate being olympian with a lot of discipline but apparently ice cream is an important part of your training oh it's very close to my heart you know my family um we grew up as um ice cream makers in cornwall um did you yeah yeah my dad wasn't ice cream man so i was fueled by ice cream from a young age.

Flake, red sauce, sprinkles? Clotted cream. Oh, of course, clotted cream. It has been an absolute joy and pleasure speaking to you. Tell me what you're off to do now. I'm about to go on the rowing machine for another hour and a half. Of course she is. Helen Glover, it's an absolute pleasure to speak to you and we'll be backing you all the way.

That's all from me. Join me for Weekend Woman's Hour tomorrow. I'm Sarah Treleaven and for over a year, I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who's faking pregnancies. I started like warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake.

No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.