Woman's Hour - FIFA's women's football tournaments, Glasgow fire, Pilgrimages

Episode Date: March 21, 2026

New regulations state that every team in FIFA's women's football tournaments must include at least one female head coach or assistant coach. The requirements will come into effect during the under 17s and under 20s Women's World Cup and Women's Champions Cup competitions this year. Kylie Pentelow caught up on the news with Fern Buckley, sports presenter and former Talksport commentator, and Claire Buzzeo, a football coach at the Sunderland football academy.Women in Glasgow are pulling together after a fire near the city’s Central Station forced several female‑run salons and small businesses to shut their doors. For nearly two weeks, nail technicians and hairdressers have been unable to trade after their businesses were destroyed by the blaze. But amid the shock and uncertainty, a powerful network of local women has stepped in—rallying support, fundraising, and even donating equipment to help these business owners get back on their feet. Anita speaks to Carolyn Currie from Women's Enterprise Scotland, a membership body for businesswomen and Carina McCreedy who runs Bonos Nail Salon and who has received some of that help.Dame Sarah Mullally, the new Archbishop of Canterbury, is on a walking pilgrimage from St Paul’s Cathedral to Canterbury. She is walking the ancient Becket Camino which was once travelled by medieval pilgrims, and her office believes she is the first Archbishop of Canterbury to do this. It will be part of her spiritual preparation for her role. Rev Sally Hitchiner, who knows Dame Sarah and is the Parish Priest of North Lambeth, where she worked alongside the Archbishop when she was Bishop of London joins Nuala to talk about the pilgrimage experience. Presenter: Kylie Pentelow Producer: Dianne McGregor

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. For years, I've sounded like a broken record. I do not want kids. I do not ever want to have kids. I don't want to have a kid. Don't want to have a kid. Don't want to have a kid. I'm in my 40s now. The door is almost closed. And suddenly, I'm not so sure. The story has always been, no.

I'm just wondering to what degree it's just a story. Definitely just a story. From CBC's personally, this is Creation Myth. Available now, wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, this is Kylie Pentelow and you're listening to The Woman's Hour podcast. Hello and welcome to the program. It's a bit of a shorter edition today. Here's what we've got coming up.

A fire in central Glasgow a couple of weeks ago destroyed a building that was home to several small businesses, many of them run by women. A powerful network of women has stepped in to support those affected. We'll be hearing from two women, including one of those whose business was directly impacted by the fire. And we discuss pilgrimages. The new Archbishop of Canterbury is currently on a six-day journey to prepare for her installation service. Dame Sarah Malali has been walking the 87-mile route from St Paul's Cathedral in London to Canterbury Cathedral. We'll hear more from the Reverend Sally Hitchell. who knows how well.

But first, big changes have just been announced in women's football, which the governing body FIFA hopes will boost the number of female football coaches. Every team in FIFA's women's football tournaments must include at least one female head coach or assistant coach. The requirements will come into effect during the under 17s and under 20s women's World Cup and Women's Champions Cup competitions that take place later this year. Well, I spoke to Claire Busio, a football coach at the Sunderland Football Academy, and to Fern Buckley, a sports presenter

and former talk sport commentator. I began by asking Fern how significant this news is. This is a big move from FIFA, and honestly, it's been a long time coming. We've talked about change for years, but this feels like one of the first times we're seeing something concrete, because inevitably, it's so huge for visibility.

If you're a young girl and you can actually see women in those roles. It changes what you think is possible. You dare to dream bigger, don't you, and see those positions are achievable. And not only that, it's not just about the girls, but boys also benefit from more diverse coaching influences. It helps normalise equality from an early age. So I'm really happy to see the start of hopefully a chain reaction. How long has this been on the cards for? Is this something that we were expecting to happen? It's a discussion that's been bubbling away for a long time. We knew FIFA were having a meeting weren't exactly entirely in the know of what was being discussed. But I'm more than happy

to see it come in, like you say, among all the youth and senior tournaments this year, including club and national teams. And actually, when you compare it to the 2023 Women's World Cup, 12 of those 32 head coaches were female, including England manager, Serena Vigman, who's become a household name, hasn't she? But it's not quite enough. In the UK football, females only make up 38% of coaches across all sports. So, yeah, it's actually been dropping since 2022, a decline from 44 So a lot needs to happen and actually make sure that there's women also available to fulfil these roles. Well, let's talk to one of those women who is a football coach. Let's talk to Claire. We said you're a coach at the Sunderland Football Academy. You coach boys, in fact, but you've been a mentor for women coaching women and girls in Northumberland.

How easy is it to get female coaches involved and then to progress through the system? I think it's very difficult to try and get female coaches to, one, step over the sidelines to try and have that experience of, if fortunate, any level. I know that when I was mentoring, the coaches that I had had all intentions of wanting to get to that next level and do the level two. But it tended to be more about the fact that they didn't have any child care to look after their kids or the lack of course. confidence that they had in themselves and that self-belief that they understood the game from a more technical point of view. So how did you get involved then, Claire, in the first place? How did you become a coach? Well, I got involved about 12 years ago now. It was kind of one of those random things. I was taking my son to his football team and they were going to end up without

the coach. I started helping out just to, you know, I'd always enjoyed football, but I'd never, ever thought for one second that I would be getting involved in actually becoming a coach. So it started from there and I kind of got a buzz of wanting to do more and I worked my way up and now I've got my B licence. I'm now coaching at Sunderland. So yeah, it's been a long, hard slog but it's been a very, very enjoyable slog, if that makes sense. Yeah. And I mean, presuming you're you are surrounded by and have been by a lot of men in the profession. Do you think this news might potentially help more women want to become coaches in the first place? I think there are a lot of women out there who would like to become coaches.

But again, I think it's about this self-confidence and the belief that can they actually do it? Because I think the struggle in terms of being a confident woman is hard. You've got to, seemingly you'll have to work harder than your male counterparts to be seen as being competent in understanding the game. from a more technical point of view. And that is hard. It is hard. And I think that's why a lot of women don't want to do that

because they feel a bit silly. The lack that self-belief, which is why I got involved in mentoring to try and help and support and give them that confidence and the guidance to become themselves and to become something great and big because children of all ages, male and female, need, you know, male and female counterparts

because we all bring something different to the party. Yeah, is there a difference in training to coach females as opposed to men? And does it help to have a female coach in that role to do that? It does in terms of, I think, as a female coach, we do bring that sort of empathy, that motherly empathy that I think a lot of children need. Certainly, we understand as female coach, as we understand the female body better than a male, a male counterpart.

So if we have that combination of male and female, I think, you know, it gives a rounded player. You know, you become a more rounded player with that. Fern, it's really interesting to hear Claire's personal experience there. You, of course, meet female players as part of your work. What do they say to you about being coached by men versus women? You know what? When I interview players, they always uphold the most respect for their managers,

their coaches, a backroom staff, whether that's male or female. they don't differentiate, they just listen to direction and follow that. And that's from grassroots right the way to the top flight. However, like Claire was saying there, I think it's natural for a female player to feel possibly a little bit more connected to female coaches because they understand what it's like to be a woman. The challenges, for example, we're still lacking in the professionalisation of the game in terms of contracts.

So a lot of players in the pyramid, they're still working other jobs, they've got families, they manage a menstrual cycle. It's all those things that women will understand on a different level, a deeper level, than maybe a man would. As I was saying, these requirements come into effect later this year. Do you think that there are enough female coaches Fern out there to fulfil these roles? Because we're looking at quite a number here, aren't we?

Yeah, and that's the other concern. It's great seeing this being put into position, but there has been a significant lack of coaches within the community. I mean, just looking at 2024 in the top flight in the WSL, the Women's Super League, only a few clubs had female managers, head coaches, only 21 women held a UAFA pro licence across England. So I'm hoping that with different initiatives from both the FA, from FIFA, from England football as well,

we hopefully see some more women, more girls, stick around in football. Because it's a natural progression, isn't it? If you play football, you end up maybe going into a managerial role or a coaching role. So, yeah, I'm hoping that there will be enough to fulfil these positions. Claire, you said you've been doing this for 12 years. Has the situation improved? Has the number of female coaches changed in that time? Oh, yes, absolutely.

I remember when I first started out, I never seen one female coach anywhere for about eight years. But in all fairness, there weren't that many female teams in and around the area at the time either. Up here in Northumberland, the FAA at Northumberland have had a massive push in trying to open teams for female coaches, trying to get more female coaches involved in the game,

whether it's male or female. So you know the support's there now. It wasn't at the time. But yeah, I mean, it's great to see so many people, especially a lot of mums as well, going out there and now sort of taking that step to become a coach. It's really lovely to see.

We've actually had a messaging from somebody who said I've been a football coach since 2021 when I coached an under eight mix, mostly boys team, as they needed a coach and I stepped up. Since then, I've been coaching girls' teams since under 10s and the other coaches will men. I think it makes a big difference for women to coach girls when there are times when the coaches don't quite understand the girls

or when they need an extra female role model to give them confidence. I enjoy it and I think this move will increase the number of girls in the sports, not just playing but as referees and coaches, etc. They didn't give their name, but thank you so much for that comment. It's exactly what we were just talking about, isn't it, Fern? And earlier this week we spoke to Sue Day, the FAA's new head of women's football about their initiative to get more girls playing football. Do you think that at that level,

it can influence girls as young as primary school age, to start playing when they see those role models on the bench? Yes, I guess girls can see the commitment from the governing bodies to get them to stay in football. And we see such a huge drop-off in secondary school age and girls playing not only football but sports as a whole. And it's something I've covered for many years now. And although it's grown year-on-year with the Women's World Cup,

the Euros as well, sadly has been the case. But for me personally, I played football right up until secondary school, went to an all-girls school, where football then wasn't on the curriculum. So I never played again, never got onto the pitch again. So I guess in this era and now, the lionesses, girls can see that you can get to the top of the game. You can see it as a viable job prospect, not only on the pitch, but behind the scenes as well and coaching in physiotherapy, you know, the medical side of it all, or even the media aspect of it all. I know it's a difficult career to follow, but they've got a bit more confidence and we'll have a bit more confidence that that will happen and they could stay in

these roles. Just finally to you, Claire, if anyone's out there listening and Fancy's having a little go at coaching and you think it might be something that they would be good at, what skills do you think they need? They just need to be themselves. That's all they need to do is just be themselves. You know, I think it takes a lot of confidence as a woman to just make that first step and that first move to do in it, but you can. And it's about that self-belief. And I'm here to try and help and support any female coach who is interested in wanting to be part of the game in any capacity. My response would be to go for it, do it, because you don't know. If you don't try, you won't ever know. And as you were saying, you don't necessarily have to have played football,

do you? No, no. I didn't really play it either, but it doesn't mean that you don't have an understanding of the game or a desire to want to do something within that. It's probably been one of the most amazing things that I've ever done with my life is getting involved in coaching. And it's something that you just get this buzz from. That was football coach Claire Busio and sports presenter Fern Buckley there. Now, still to come on the program, we hear about the new Archbishop of Canterbury, Dame Sarah Malalli's six-day pilgrimage. And remember, you can enjoy Women's Hour any hour of the day if you can't join us live at 10 o'clock during the week. Just subscribe to the daily podcast for free via BBC Saturday.

Now, the fire in Glasgow City Centre, which has caused central station to be shut for two weeks, also forced several female-run small businesses to shut their doors. Many have been destroyed by the flames. But amid that shock and devastation, a powerful network of local women has stepped up, rallying support, fundraising, and even donating equipment to help business owners get back on their feet. Anita spoke to Carolyn Curry from Women's Enterals, Enterprise Scotland, a membership body for business women, and Karina McCready, who runs Bonos Nail Salon. Well, she told Anita where she was when she first heard about the fire.

I was actually at my mum's house for Sunday lunch. I had no idea anything was going on until my phone just started going crazy. And clients had obviously seen some of the videos that were going live of the smoke coming out of the vapour shop. It was maybe about an hour after it started, I think. I can't even completely remember that I saw the videos and started to realize that what was actually going on. When did you realize that your business had been impacted? Tell us what had happened. So where my salon was, it was on the fourth floor of the building and like kind of slightly further along the top. So sort of diagonally above where the fire originated.

So I kind of thought for the first few hours it might have actually been okay. But I think it must have been about seven or eight o'clock. it was the second floor has these really, really high windows, and I could see flames coming out of them. And at that point, I realised even if my salon wasn't directly impacted, there was absolutely no way I'd be able to get back up to it. And then it was later that night, I saw the billboard collapse on top of the roof,

and I knew there was just absolutely nothing left at that point. Devastating. Tell us about your business and what it meant to you. Like, when did you set it up, and how much effort had gone into building that? So I've been in the industry for four years, but I'd only opened that salon in November. I'd always worked part-time in nails alongside other jobs, alongside studying and stuff. And it was only in November that I'd taken the leap to go fully self-employed and open my own space.

It's named after my dog, who comes to the salon with me every day. It felt like it was just completely mine. Everything in there, all my sock, the decor, it was all a combination of, my own efforts and also my friend Holly. She also obviously lost everything in the fire as well. And yeah, it was just, it was this great little space where, you know, I would see my clients every single day. And, you know, a lot of them, they become your friends.

They become your consultants. And it's you going at, you going it alone. Your effort, your savings. Yeah, all the savings, all the money that they've been put into, you know, I'd operated at a loss for quite a significant period of time just to try and make the business what I wanted it to be. you know, we lost art that people had brought in for is we lost all the furniture, all of the stock that we put into. Even like some of my dog's favourite toys were in there, so there's sentimental things there as well.

Carolyn, I'm going to bring you in here from Women's Enterprise Scotland. We don't know the exact gender makeup of the owners of those businesses, but a lot of women running hair and nail salons. Tell us a little bit about the building and why women were attracted to that space. I mean, we've heard there from Corinna about it being her small business that she's set up in November, like she'd built up to this moment. Was that kind of a story that you heard quite a lot? Yeah, we heard that an awful lot, you know. And I think what attract women in particular to a building like that is the sense of community.

So there is that sense of being part of a wider small business community with others who share a similar ambition to strike out in their own and their belief in their talents and their skills. that they want to really create something of value. It's that sense of motivation and shared ambition that is quite hard to describe and articulate. But, you know, when you're amongst women like Karina, it's really tangible and it's very admirable. But I think as she's outlined, it's a hard fault for road.

We know from our research that women tend to start up, on average, with about half the capital of their male peers, was Karina's saying, it takes a while to build up your business, to manage the costs that you've taken on, and to make that business viable. So, you know, you start up with less capital. It takes you longer to build that business. And then you are more vulnerable than others to these shocks that can happen.

I mean, none of us think something like that is going to happen to us as individuals or business owners. It is such a shock. and businesses led by women are sadly more vulnerable because it can take them longer to build up that capital and they have less assets at their disposal to respond. And therefore, back to that sense of community is so important when you're starting out. It makes such a difference to people's lives.

Karina, what kind of support have you had from the beauty community? It really has been almost overwhelming the support that we've had, whether it's been nail technicians that I've followed on Instagram, just, you know, kind of mutually over the years, they're reaching out with spare bits of their kit. Actually, Tammy from NAF salon started up like a sort of a donation hub for people to go collect things that we needed. Brands have reached out, even brands that I've never interacted with before,

have reached out and offered stuff to us. And two of my friends who also nail technicians, Lauren and Shan. Shan also owns a brand called nail craft. She replaced my entire kit. Carolyn, what support is available from, your organisation and others. Yeah, there is a great community response to this. There is support available.

There are lots of organisations there to support businesses generally, and particularly women. So there have been offers of business premises, of hot desking, of being able to come in for us in particular. We are not-for-profit and we'll happily speak to you about your particular situation. And I do just want to say exactly, as Karina has highlighted,

there will be so many women sitting there overwhelmed by what has happened, feeling to some extent a sense of shame that it has happened to them and just not knowing what to do. And many of these women-led businesses are not in touch with formal business support structures and it's so easy to fall between the cracks

at a time like this. So to anybody that's listening, there is a whole community out there that wants to support you. So please get in touch with us or speak to your friends, your family. Please don't feel overwhelmed because there is support.

Everybody really is rooting for you to succeed as brave and courageous small businesses. So please don't feel like that. That was Carolyn Curry and Karina McCready speaking to Anita. And Glasgow City Council told us they're still at the early stages of the demolition process

with a focus on completing it as safely and quickly as possible and are engaging with affected businesses to offer them support at this time. For years, I've sounded like a broken record. I do not want kids. I do not ever want to have kids. I don't want to have a kid. Don't want to have a kid. Don't want to have a kid. I'm in my 40s now. The door is almost closed. And suddenly, I'm not so sure.

The story has always been no. I'm just wondering to what degree is. It's just a story. Definitely just a story. From CBC's personally, this is creation myth. Available now, wherever you get your podcasts. Now, I wanted to let you know that there's a new episode of the Woman's Hour Guide to Life coming out tomorrow, and it's all about navigating conversations around infertility.

For those facing treatment like IVF, the questions, comments, and even silence from people around you can feel overwhelming. And for friends and family who want to help, there's the fear you'll say the wrong thing. So how can you broach the topic sensitively? Here's Nula talking to Kay, who's currently going through fertility treatment, and they spoke about what phrases are best avoided. Just relax. It'll happen. It'll happen when you stop trying. At least you know you can get pregnant. Everything happens for a reason.

Are there others that have stayed with you? Why don't you just go on holiday? I just don't think about it, just relax and then you'll get pregnant. I know somebody who. I know somebody who. I know somebody who. It's always I know somebody who. I've had so many and I think people try and fill the void and the silence.

They just don't know what to say. I think sometimes you just need to go, I know it's really rubbish, but I'm here if you need anything. Like that's literally all people need to say. Or a bunch of flowers. Or come around with a bottle of Prosecco because at the time you can drink because obviously, you're fine. No seco, whatever you, whatever you poison is. That's what's needed. Don't try and just say words. That's The Woman's Our Guide to Life episode, all about navigating conversations around infertility with confidence and with care. It's out on Sunday on the Women's Hour BBC

Sounds feed. Now for a moment of history in the Church of England, Dame Sarah Mullally, the new Archbishop of Canterbury, is currently on a pilgrimage from St Paul's Cathedral to Canterbury. She's been walking the ancient Beckett Camino, which was once travelled by medieval pilgrims. But her office believes she is the first Archbishop of Canterbury to do this. It'll be part of her spiritual preparation for her role. Well, before she started her journey, Nula spoke to the Reverend Sally Hitchiner, who knows Dame Sarah. She's the parish priest of North Lambeth,

where she worked alongside the Archbishop when she was Bishop of London. She's also walked this 87-mile route herself more than once. So why does she think the Archbishop chose to begin her new chapter with this pilgrimage? Pilgrimage is something that has been used for a very, very long time in Christian tradition and in other traditions to begin certain phases of life. It's something that people do to try and get closer to God and something people do to take a moment out of ordinary life, away from your emails, away from your desk,

just a chance to let your body move and slow down to the pace of walking. I think there's something quite symbolic about walking from the centre of London out the first day. You're just walking out of London. And it's amazing to on your own two feet walk out of the very centre of urban life through the suburbs out into the countryside. And journey that through. And Bishop Sarah is taking six days, which is a big chunk of time for an Archbishop of Canterbury. and I think it shows her commitment to prayer and wanting to start her ministry

as Archbishop with reflection and contemplation. I'm the right foot, shall we say. But let's talk about that actual Beckett Camino and I'll come back to some of the job, I suppose, that's ahead of the Archbishop. But the Becket Camino, you've done it. Is it arduous? Yes, I mean, your feet ache by the end of the first day.

Yes, I'm sure. And then the second and third day, it can get quite gruelling. But there is something, I think, about just slowing down and it's our distance in another way in that you're forced to think about things that you don't make time to think about. It brings things back to mind and we spend our lives just distracting ourselves with sort of one thing or another and even with work.

And actually it brings things closer to you. She's walking it with her husband and with a couple of other people. So she does have people to chat to. She does. And she'll be stopping along the way. She is, yes. She'll be stopping at various places, including the Aylesford Priory to meet with some Catholic brothers there and she'll be stopping at St Margaret of Antioch Church in Darrett

which is the sixth oldest church in England and of course she'll be stopping at the shrine of St Jude which is the Apostle for Hope. So she's stopping at various places and she's stopping for morning and evening prayer in churches along the way and I think it's about the ancient and the modern sides of the church but also of England and connecting with rural and city

and with such a divided society and I think for her to slowly walk between places I think is an experience of trying to be a unifying force. Because it is a commitment as we talk about. And also it's quite interesting to think about medieval and modern ways of life, for example. We can all be very busy, but she is taking time out of a busy schedule to be productive, to, I suppose, think ahead on what she is facing.

We mentioned the six days because some of the issues facing her will include dealing with safeguarding, same-sex blessings, the role of women in the church, including her own election as Archbishop of Canterbury, which had vocal opposition as we know. But I suppose perhaps, and you have met her, you will know her way of thinking through issues that that would be facing her.

Yeah, I mean, I don't think I can speak for her, but it's a chance to reset. It's a chance to sort of get a different perspective. And perhaps for her, I would imagine, it's also a chance to root back in prayer and to take some really extended time to be still and to think and to feel human again. There's something about pilgrimage that connects you with your humanity and your body.

And I think perhaps it's an opportunity to come back with a fresh perspective, to be able to, we've tried so many things in these areas of the church that haven't worked, that have been sometimes more painful than not. And I think I would imagine she wants to come back with something more rooted, more fresh perhaps. And I think also humble might be the word that also comes. to mind. Yeah, I mean, there's something about pilgrimage that just makes you humble. You're walking as an individual. You're not surrounded by buildings or by machinery. And I think there's something about that journey of walking humbly as just a Christian, as many Christians before have done

from the centre of London to the place of pilgrimage, which in this case is Canterbury Cathedral, that just reaffirms her back with her individual walk with God and that possibility of bringing that into her leadership and for her not to lose herself in that. Speaking to her office, it appears to be that she will be the first Archbishop of Canterbury to do this. She seems to be good at being first. She seems to be first woman, first all sorts of things. And actually, perhaps our world needs first.

Perhaps we're in a different world now that needs people to think differently and different people to come in with different perspectives. So long might last. This has touched a nerve with the listeners about going on pilgrimage. In May, I'm spending a week. walking half of the fishermen's trail down the west coast of Portugal. We are four women, friends from our university days,

all age 65, we can't wait. My brother did the same with his uni mates. So lovely, that's Jude in Cornwall. Another, my mother Barbara, has been going to Lourdes annually for well over 60 years. I've been there too. In the early days, she went as a handmade to the sick, mainly on the catering side.

Latterly, she has been a sick pilgrim. I'm sorry to hear that. And at the age of 103, She hopes to go one last time in May. That's Frank. Frank. I hope she has a wonderful, wonderful trip. Another, my husband and I walked the Camino de Santiago in three separate stages in memory of our daughter, who died age 27 in 2010. It was an amazing spiritual experience.

The scenery incredible and everyone had a special story to share. We have memories that will last a lifetime. It's so interesting. It's kind of an openness, it seems to bring to people. And people have all different backgrounds. and beliefs. And I mean, I thought Frank's mum is a great case and point in that you can do it of all different ages and actually pilgrimage is something that's very accessible to people of all different beliefs and backgrounds. And they're finding something really meaningful in that experience

of physically walking and reflecting and connecting with the spiritual. And your thoughts before her installation? Oh, she's in all of our prayers. And I think it's, we all want the first woman, Archbishop of Canterbury, to be able to be someone who shows what women can do, who sort of shows that actually there's diversity is needed at all levels of leadership because people bring different experiences and different perspectives and I'm sure she will be able to bring something of that into her leadership.

That was the Reverend Sally Hitchiner talking to Nula there. And the new Archbishop Dame Sarah Malawi will arrive in Canterbury tomorrow. Now don't forget to join me on Monday for a star-packed programme. Showbiz legend Jane MacDonald will be here singing, from her new album. I'll also be joined by Emmy winner Elizabeth Moss from Mad Men and The Handmaid's Tale and Kate Mara from House of Cards and The Martian. They play best friends in their new drama, Imperfect Women. That's at 10 a.m. on Monday. But for now, thank you very much for listening. That's all for today's Woman's Hour. Join us again next time. Hello, I'm Alan Davis. And on BBC Radio 4, we're off into alternate realities. mapped out by science. This is Life Without, where I pull one thread from the magnificent fabric of life,

and watch what unravels. Scientists around the world would be crying themselves to sleep. A bunch of mammals would be worrying about where their favourite snack was. And we'd bring it down to Earth. David Beckham. I can imagine him putting that on the socials. My bees of my girls have all disappeared. Sometimes we patch it up and crack on.

We will survive. We will survive. Humans are ingenious. That is our hallmark project. We should prize above everything else. But sometimes it's bigger than us. Join me to find out just how far the unraveling can go. Subscribe to Life Without on BBC Sounds.

For years, I've sounded like a broken record. I do not want kids. I do not ever want to have kids. I don't want to have a kid. Don't want to have a kid. Don't want to have a kid. I'm in my 40s now. The door is almost closed. and suddenly I'm not so sure. The story has always been no. I'm just wondering to what degree it's just a story.

Definitely just a story. From CBC's personally, this is Creation Myth, available now wherever you get your podcasts.