Woman's Hour - Friends Forever, Fangirls, Period justice and flood victims, Energy crisis and use of public facilities

Episode Date: August 31, 2022

In a new series 'Friends Forever?' we are looking at key relationships in many women's lives, those with female friends. Specifically we're interested in when things go wrong - when and why friendships fall apart and how devastating that can be. And, whether they can be repaired. Annie and Lizzie were very close at school and after and then their lives diverged. They each told their story to Jo Morris.More than 33 million people have been impacted by the devastating floods in Pakistan, and over a thousand people have died since mid-June. Emma is joined by two students from Pakistan who have set up Mahwari Justice campaign to get sanitary products to those in need. In the second part of our Woman’s Hour series on Fangirls we ask: Can fan girls change the world? We speak to Professor Jay Song, Associate Professor in Korean Studies at the University of Melbourne about the political power of fangirls and a member of the BTS Army, Dr Heta Bhatt. We deep dive into the world of K-Pop band BTS & their loyal fandom called the BTS Army, who have been instrumental in shaping politics and socioeconomic issues in Korea and beyond. The cost of living crisis is having an impact on us all. And while paying a monthly fee to go to the gym may likely be seen by some as non-essential expenditure – some people say using the facilities there like showering can help shave hundreds of pounds off energy bills. Should there be boundaries on what facilities people can use in the public sphere? We are joined on the programme by the money saving expert and mum Gemma Bird. The Mayor of Bristol, Marvin Rees also chats to us about setting up ‘warm banks’ - those are heated sites like museums and galleries for those unable to afford their energy bills.Reporter: Jo Morris

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme, peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, I'm Emma Barnett and welcome to Woman's Hour from BBC Radio 4. Tonight is the final hustings of the Conservative leadership race at Wembley Arena, no less. Journalists at Politico have been told there's even a half an hour DJ set to warm the crowds up first. And by next week, we will have a new prime minister. Looming large in their in-tray is the cost of living juggernaut, especially as winter approaches,

which is why I want to direct your attention to a discussion thread that could be described as a sign of the times that we find ourselves living in, which attracted much attention earlier in the summer. A woman posted anonymously on Mumsnet about her strategy to take proper showers and do her hair washing, the shaving of her armpits and legs when she visits her gym as a way of saving some money at home and making the most of her gym membership. While praised by some, she was rounded on by others who called her, quite simply, disgusting. Yesterday, we heard that councils across the country

are planning on using public spaces such as libraries, art galleries and community centres as warm banks, cosy spaces, places people can come and be warm if they're struggling to heat their homes during the winter with rising bills, in a similar model to food banks. And yet not everyone is on the same page. For instance, a local Conservative Party chairman in Newcastle-under-Lyme is on the record today saying that the cost of living crisis is being overplayed. Graham Hutton told the Eye newspaper that not everyone using a food bank needs to and advised people to put another jumper on and learn how to budget. He also said he thought the new prime minister needed to focus on helping small businesses survive this time and rising costs. Well, what do you plan to do to respond? Have you started using certain services differently?

Have you given up on doing particular things in your life? Thought twice about buying something you usually buy? Maybe you are the owner of a small business. Maybe you own a gym and you hear about people using the showers for longer and doing what they do at home normally. On your premises, how are you coping at the moment? We'll talk a bit more about the role of businesses in our next discussion, but do get in touch with your personal responses. However small the tweaks may be, it may also be that you are not going to be that affected and maybe you've started either donating or volunteering but whatever the you know however small whatever the change of behavior may be it would be interesting to hear from you today you can text me here on the program the number is 84844 text will be charged at your

standard rate on social media we're at bbc women's hour email me through the women's hour website if you prefer or whatsapp me you can send a voice note, do it as a message, 03700 100 444, especially if we're talking about the cost of living. Data charges may apply, so you may wish to use Wi-Fi. All the terms and conditions are on our website. Also on today's programme, what happens when friendships go wrong?

How can friendships be repaired? And sometimes, should we even bother? We have a new series for you. And the other side of fangirls in the digital age, organised, mobilised and sometimes politicised. All that to come. But to that discussion which kicked off on Mumsnet a few weeks ago under a thread titled, Am I being unreasonable? I think I should quote it to you so you get a flavour. You may have seen it at the time. A woman wrote anonymously, got into a debate recently with a friend over the showers at our local gym.

Given the prices of everything going up and the cost of living being more expensive and the fact that gym membership itself isn't cheap, every time I go and take full advantage of the free hot shower. And that means I always take shampoo, conditioner, body wash, a razor, face scrub and generally everything I always take shampoo conditioner body wash a razor face scrub and generally everything I use in the shower as if I were at home my friend saw my razor and was mortified mortified that I shave in the public showers I don't personally think it's dirty

I don't mind the thought of someone else shaving in them either I'm only talking legs and armpits no pubic hair as I get a wax maybe that that's too much information. But I think if I didn't get a wax, then maybe I'd do those as well. The post provoked comments from other users of Mumsnet, many of them saying using a razor in the public shower was a step too far, but also some of them applauding her thriftiness. Well, the money blogger Gemma Bird is on the line. Gemma is mortgage-free at the age of 40 and has almost 300,000 Instagram followers hooked on her every word with her savvy tips, which I'm sure they're coming to a bit more at the moment. Gemma is mortgage free at the age of 40 and has almost 300,000 Instagram followers hooked on her every word with her savvy tips, which I'm sure they're coming to a bit more at the moment. Gemma, good morning. Morning, are you all right? Well, I'm intrigued by what you make of this because

it did start something and we're going to talk a little bit about how councils are thinking about how to change things during the winter. But what do you make of this use of a gym membership? I think she's absolutely entitled to use it. I this use of uh of a gym membership i think she's absolutely entitled to use it i think you're paying for a gym membership you're paying for the services in the gym and if the services in the gym are you know as long as you're doing everything within the contract in the gym's terms and conditions that you're able to use a shower then why not you know she might go in there and only use the weights for an hour she's not using any electricity somebody might go in there and run for two hours well they're using all the gym's

electricity to run for two hours and i don't think that she's doing anything wrong a lot of them especially if they're individual cubicles which most gyms are nowadays especially the women's ones i know there's one i go to it's an individual cubicle and everything's washing away and you know for somebody to call her disgusting they don't know her situation they don't know what she's going through maybe she's really really struggling to put food on the table for her children and she's keeping herself clean and when you go to the gym that's what the showers are there for to have a shower and hair wash so how can you be disgusting cleaning yourself and I just think anyone's calling her that needs to really sort of take a look at themselves and

and all this horribleness that we're saying to each other on the internet she's obviously put it on for what do you think but you know there's no need for people to be rude to other other people and you don't know what situation anyone's going through in life and you know and if gyms are sort of worrying about you know people using the showers and everything then that's something they need to look at as a business and say okay well you know what it has gone up the gas and electric and then they would have to obviously increase their gym memberships which is again i totally understand that side of it as well. But calling the lady disgusting for using a hot shower in a gym,

I think she's, you know, she's using it wisely. You know, she's using the facilities at the gym that she's paying that contract for and saving herself money at home. So I don't think there's anything wrong with it personally. Anne immediately messaged in to say, save even more money and cancel your gym membership. Yeah, well, that's the other flip side as well isn't it you know if you're really really really sort of hard up you do have to you know it sounds awful but things like gym memberships having your nails done these things they are sort of luxuries and everything that we have in life and yes

gym is really good for a lot of people's mental health as well some people's mental health also on the flip side of that in a minute is horrific because of the cost of living and people are really really worrying to some people that's their only outlet you know i mean they cancel their tv they cancel everything it may be that they've only kept that and obviously gym's really good for your health your mental well-being so it's yes in some ways yes you can cancel your gym membership but there could also be other things going on with that person that they need that they need that freedom away from their children or they need that social interaction you know that's what a lot of people go to the gym for it's also i think interesting you know of course we've talked about this before but people feeling they can be more honest online

when they they don't know the person and they can just snap back and say whatever they want including you're disgusting i mean i think also just to say your point about cubicles is quite key, because if it's one of those ones with the sort of shared floor area, I think some people have a slightly different view, regardless of how they feel about the electricity. But I think it's interesting. And I know you have thoughts on this around how we don't talk about what we need to do to do with money very easily. So she has put this on there to see what people think. We're already getting in messages from people about what they're doing slightly differently. You know, somebody saying they're not turning the lights on and they work from home at the moment or trying to as little as possible. Do you feel that perhaps one silver lining of this time that we're going through and about to go through perhaps more is we may talk a bit more about strategies and how to handle this because there's still a lot of shame saying that you you

need to even think about this absolutely i think it's so important that's what i sort of do on my social media because i always think you know on social media especially a couple of years ago it was fine to sort of stand in front of a fancy car look amazing put every single designer handbag show all the positive things in your life but we never sort of spoke about okay what's what can we do like we're going through a tough time we can't afford that that meal out we can't afford to do this we can't afford to do that and i think it's really important and we all learn and grow from each other like someone might say oh i do this i turn that off and when i do posts i always say to people comment your ideas and tips and people do and then it just grows and grows and grows and by all help or by all sharing each other's ideas online and using it as a positive place and a nice place

because most people are going through the same thing even people that are on a good salary are really really struggling this isn't just people that are on a low salary this is people that are on sort of um good salaries that are now struggling you know gas and electric has gone up nearly 74 percent or something ridiculous isn't't it? You know, this is absolutely astronomical rises. And this isn't just people that are on low salaries. And I think that really needs to be stressed. I get people coming in my inbox that are on really good salaries that are really struggling. What do you make, if I may, of Graham Hutton's comments?

I quoted them at the beginning. The chairman of the Newcastle Underline Conservative Association talked about the cost of living crisis being overplayed, a lot of people needing to learn how to cook, how to budget better and perhaps put a jumper on. I think it's the most stupid comment I've ever heard, if I'm totally honest, if you want my honest opinion. Always want your honest opinion, Gemma. I think it's the most stupid comment I think I've ever heard

because it's not like it's gone up 1% or 2%. Then yes, OK, people might be being like a little bit this has gone up people's wages haven't gone up 70 percent you know gas electric bills I saw something the other day instead of paying 164 pound a month in January you're going to be saying something like 360 pounds a month your petrol's gone up another 200 pounds a month your food's gone up another 200 this is like 600 pounds a month most people a lot of people that were on good salaries, that was their surplus. They're now wiped out. So the people that only had a half pound left over

are now in absolute horrific problems. Beyond shaving your armpits in the gym, if you have a gym membership, just a few tips for us at this moment that you're finding really resonate with your followers online. Yeah, so a couple of things I would definitely say is when you are literally

not anything you're not using the plug sockets to switch in the wall like i said your skybox and everything if you're recording don't turn it off but everything like that when you go to bed switch absolutely everything off when the winter months come i don't personally like a hot bedroom so turn your radiators off on all your bedrooms that will save you a huge amount of money and if you worry about that sort of cold air blowing into the downstairs shut all your doors upstairs make sure you get things like the hallway let out a lot of heat buy one of those sort of draft um protectors you know on the bottom of your door and things like that if you can't afford a brand new front door and stuff like that make sure you sort of your fridge and your freezers if your fridge is quite empty don't

have it up on a really high setting lower the coolness because you need it needs just keep changing that so you don't need it set at the coolest temperature if it's not full so all these things obviously washing at a lower degree things like filling your kettle up getting a what they call them flasks the heated flask i can't think what they're called it's a thermos flask thermos flask that's it making sure you you've filled up one of those because you can then sort of make all your cups of tea and everything throughout the day like that um things like making sure your thermostat on your your heating you're turning it down there just a little bit things like that just being more mindful with like your food and everything writing lists using the scanners in

the shop if you're not good at budgeting because as you go around that will then tell you how much you're spending it might make you think okay well i've already got to have a budget what can i replace looking at replacing things with more like lentils and beans and frozen things like that taking out the meat batch cooking is going to save you a lot of money um because obviously it's going to save you on gas and electric and obviously you're going to make a bigger dinner so there's lots of ways and handy tips and there's lots of my instagram money mum official in my highlights so you can go through and and have a look you you yeah lots of tips there jemma bird good to have you on i'm sure we'll talk again let me bring

into this uh marvin reese the mayor of bristol because we heard yesterday that councils across the uk are planning to set up so-called warm banks for people to use in community spaces marvin i know in bristol you've been looking at this for some time. That's right. Yeah, I have a regular meeting with community development workers from across Bristol, those really working on the front line. And we started talking earlier in the year just about how we have a proper understanding of what this general description of a cost of living crisis is going to look like, specifically in the lives of specific people in particular communities, be they characterised communities or geographical areas.

And out of that, we were anticipating the cost of living crisis in the summer. But looking at this kind of gear change as we come into the autumn when people need to put the heating on and from those conversations we we agreed to begin to set up a network of warm places people can go to we now call them welcoming spaces but essentially places people can go to be warm if they're scared to put heating on in their own homes where will they be can you give us i mean libraries were given as an example where else yeah community centers faith organizations around the city public buildings like libraries as well so we have 26 in development uh you know at the moment um they will be places where people can go to be warm but we're looking to do other activities there as well so there'll be support for homework for example for children who are going to be going there um after school

but we'll be putting food on so people can eat meals together and no one wants a crisis like this and it is a crisis despite what the the chap said from up in newcastle which i don't know what uh i mean it scares me that there's a small group of people about to choose the prime minister and he's one of them um and the rest of us aren't involved you should say at this point you're a part you're a member of the labour party i am yeah but i'm the mayor of a city of you are you are but just just in case people don't know it's always good to to say that's that's yeah and that's fine i got no no point but my priority is the reality of what's happening in the lives of of people in bristol and you know within the rest of the country as well yes um but we'll be looking to put on other opportunities for people to build community,

to break down social isolation in these welcoming places around the city as well. You may not agree with what Graham Hutton had to say, but his focus on small businesses would also be a welcome move from certainly some of our listeners as well, because it is worth reminding ourselves that the small firms out there are also pleading for the government to step in over high energy bills, which have soared by as much as 400% in some cases. Businesses are not protected by the off-gen price cap, and they face paying 20% VAT on their energy bills. We heard yesterday reports of pubs closing, not the first time, just about actually being able to keep going in this time. Are you seeing a similar picture with businesses in Bristol?

Yeah, businesses are under incredible pressure in the hospitality, in our care sector as well, as well facing increases in their bills. This goes over into hospitals as well in the public sector, but certainly everyone's facing those cost pressures. I think one of the saddest features of that comment is we don't have to set people

off against each other. You know, the truth is the cost of living crisis is going to be with our families. It is also going to be with small businesses. Why does that mean that we then have to try

and set one off against the other? That's a real impoverished kind of politics. To be fair, Mr Hatton's not here to respond. It'd be interesting to hear that. But I suppose it was in the context of what you were talking about, which is this small group of people picking the next

Prime Minister and what is going to be prioritised come next week when Parliament is out of recess. Yeah, and the truth is that it's all a priority. But just on the cost of living crisis and the way we approach our national leadership in general, I think I do point out in my own city,

in talking to city leaders, is people have been in a cost of living crisis for years. What's happening now is more people are being pulled into it. But as a young kid, we wouldn't have seen it as a cost of living crisis. But my mum sometimes had an empty refrigerator and we chose between heating and eating. You know, I had a cold home. You know, we've been struggling to make sure children are fed in Bristol ever since I was elected. It was one of our earliest priorities because we recognise this challenge as we face the, you know, a rental crisis and a cost of housing crisis supplying the UK as well. Sorry, your line just cut out there, Marvin,

but just final thought to you, if I can. Another interesting element that's coming in, a theme from our listeners about what they may or may not be changing, is going back to the office, going back to the workplace. Since April, when my electricity fixed rate plan ended, reads this message, I turned off my heating and hot water. Since then, I work only in the office, although my job is hybrid to keep warm and I shower at work. Thank goodness for my workplace, without which I'd be cold and smelly with a smiley face

at the end of that message. But there's a serious point in there. And that's what some have also talked about, a drive back to the office because of costs. And to me, that is a very logical move. You can see that happening. People going into the office to take pressure off of having to pay bills at home and shower in the office or in the gym, as you started off with the example, as where as possible. Perfectly logical response to the current challenges.

Well, we will hear more about these warm spaces as i say happening right across the uk you're giving us the picture there marvin thank you for that as the mayor of bristol and what's happening where you are and there's a message here back to that shower example i'm showering in the gym someone feels very strongly about it julia has given her name who says i am disgusted by this woman's attitude anyone who can afford gym membership can afford to put their heating on i suggest this woman cancels her gym membership, pays for her water heating and invites members of the public to have a free shower at her house. I'm a pensioner still working to keep a roof over my head. This woman should get a taste of reality and not be so selfish. So your messages

keep coming in. Don't hold back. I want to hear what you really think. You're certainly not. And you're letting me know the changes that you're making. A message here. I work in a theatre in the evenings and during the recent heat waves, I came into work several hours early to sit in the public front of house areas in the air conditioning to keep cool. I anticipate doing the same thing as the weather turns cold and enjoy the central heating at my workplace as well. If you are a business owner, it'd be also very interesting to hear from you, however big or small your business is and what the costs are doing and how they're affecting you at the moment. Of course, being a woman's hour, it all started with a message from a woman about how she's using her shower,

and I have to say, well, rather not her shower, the shower at the gym. You do have strong views on that. Keep them coming in. Some of you do not sound like you would like to be her friend. But moving to the topic of friendship, a couple of years ago, Fleabag author Phoebe Waller-Bridge said on this very programme, a wonderful line, friendships are the greatest romances of our lives.

A sentiment that resonated with a lot of you. But what happens when friendship goes wrong? How can friendships be repaired? Should we even bother? In a new series called Friends Forever? The question mark is key. We want to explore that. Let's listen first to the story of Annie and Lizzie. They talked separately to our reporter, Jo Morris, about their long friendship, which began at school. Lizzie first. I met my life partner in my early 50s and up to that point, friendship was, I mean, obviously friendship still is important, but I know that my life emotionally pivoted around my friends. I worked at them so therefore when my friendship with Annie fell apart that was probably quite a catastrophe actually in the sense of now retrospectively realising that I had given

up something that was actually really important to me. I don't have many photos but I have a collection of photos that my mum put together for my 40th birthday. And very revealingly, so she was kind of like doing a potted history of my life. And that is me and Anne. I think that might have been my 19th or 18th birthday. And why very revealing? The fact that mum put it in the book. We were putting silly hats on, sub-bananarama, black hat from Miss Salfridge, stripy T-shirt. Classic, classic 80s combat. And this is Annie here, isn't it?

Yeah, and she's got her nice, I mean, punkish short hair, blonde, a big jacket. It was a look. And how do you feel now looking at you both there? I love this photo. Young girls on the brink of what's ahead. We were either about to go to college or our first year at college. And at this point, do you think you thought you'd always be friends? You think friends forever, don't you, when you're that age?

And you hope so because if you find people that you can connect with, you do want them to be forever. Friendship was so hard to find. Why would you sort of abandon it? How long have you been friends with Annie for? I met Anne in 1978. We met at sixth form of a boys boarding school, 25 girls each year. So there were 50 girls in a school of 600. So it was a very strange experience. Beyond that, it was also a place I wasn't particularly happy being at. At the time, my mum and dad were not having a very easy time together.

The thinking was that if I went to boarding school, it would take me away from this difficult situation. If I could have seen you two hanging out at school together, what would I have seen? Probably us in the art department laughing definitely laughing snorting with laughter yeah I mean I think we did a lot of snorting but that's a great feeling it was very establishment school so kind of being a bit arty being a bit different being a bit left wing you sort of slightly stuck out we were kind of I suppose kindred spirits I probably was wearing big CND badges We were kind of, I suppose, kindred spirits. I probably was wearing big CND badges and that kind of thing in a school where the military was kind of important. Were you the cool girls?

I think Anne was cool. I'm not quite sure how cool I was. I was nerdy cool. I was definitely nerdy cool. Of all the people in that year, Anne was the sort of person I felt I had most in common with. I found school very difficult because of various things going on at home. It was really important to find friends who could

be supportive to you. There were very few that were sort of really my tribe. Anne is incredibly compassionate and warm. Even in your late teens, people play hot and cold with you and I think Anne was consistent. Would she come to your house? Yeah she came to my house my mum was incredibly fond of Anne Anne was someone who was always very kind of chatty with my mum I suppose I was embarrassed that my parents were opera singers again it was back to all my awkwardness as a teenager pathetic really. This is something she gave me, so... What is it?

It's a card when we got married. That Lizzie gave you? Yes. What does it say? It says, Dearest Annie and Daniel, wishing you all things bright and beautiful and much happiness besides. Much, much love, Lizzie.

And are you Anne or Annie? Annie. And what does Lizzie call you? Probably Anne. Everyone's known me Annie since I've been a grown-up. I've never known her as Elizabeth, although her mother did call her Elizabeth, but she sang her name.

Her mother was an opera singer. And you'd hear this beautiful voice coming up the stairs. Give it a go. Elizabeth! She was larger than life and an opera singer and a very talented opera singer. Their house was quite sort of lively and busy and they had a parrot and it was all very different to my quiet family home with just a father and siblings.

The school had a lot of girls coming in who were sort of a bit mean girlsy, I think, and she was not like that. Slightly awkward. She she was clever she was quite intense. When you met Lizzie what was your first impression of her? Did you think she was cool? I don't think I thought she was cool but she was cool she was interested in sort of cultural things that were beyond me but I wanted to know about so she was a bit ahead of me really. My friendship with Lizzie became better and closer after school. We were at different universities but we used to write to each other a lot and I remember going to stay with her and she came down to stay

with me and she had sort of a nice group of friends who were always very interesting and cool and clever. What did you imagine the future held for your friendship at that point? I expected that she'd always be a friend. I certainly didn't expect there to be a rift. I think probably even then there were times, this is something that I've thought about later on, there were times when I could have that I've thought about later on, there were times when I could have been kinder to her, more inclusive, and I probably wasn't.

What was the point, Lizzie, when things began to change in your friendship? Anne met her husband to be at university and they were very happy and very grounded as a couple and they moved in with each other I think quite soon after leaving university and they became to me very grown up and then they got married and and had her first child and I think for me that was like so far from where I was in my life I probably deep down found it kind of difficult to be around her because she had a confidence of who she was not just being a mum and a wife but she also was studying teacher training and knew what she wanted to do vocationally, whereas I was still kind of trying to work out what I wanted to be. And I think that kind of confidence of knowing who she was and being happy in her skin, I kind of pushed that away because it was everything I wasn't.

I remember thinking, I don't want to be entertaining single friend. That was the sitcom staple, wasn't it? Not that Anne was asking that of me. Did you tell her how you were feeling? Of course not, because I was such a mess. I kind of just pushed her away. She never neglected me. It was me who neglected her.

I was probably jealous. And what happened? Basically, I ghosted Anne. It's not the word that would be used in the early 90s but i i ghosted her i kind of stopped returning her phone calls and just tried to cease contact in a most immature way which i'm not proud of i am ashamed she rumbled there was something up because she wrote me a lovely letter she wrote to me to try and understand why I wasn't returning her calls and and also try and understand the rift in our friendship and I can remember being in the corner of my bedroom

reading the letter and I remember feeling cornered like I didn't have an answer I didn't even reply to that letter sadly I can't find it but I know that I didn't throw it away. I put it into a book. So I was ticking along with my career and my home life. Lizzie was part of that, but not every week, I don't think. And I could have probably been more inclusive and kinder and made more effort. So when you looked at Lizzie, what did you think she was doing with her life? She was a dynamic, so independent woman who didn't have two little babies hanging off her arms and having to think about food all the time. She was glamorous and making decisions about important things.

Could you tell her how you were feeling? We weren't talking in the way that we were talking ten years before. She was very sweet about my first child, I remember that. She came to visit and she brought me some flowers, which was lovely, and I was just completely absorbed with this three-day-old. I didn't see her again for a very long time. I'm a bit stubborn as well, so I probably kept trying, too long probably, and a mutual friend of ours said, you know know what she's entitled to sort of make the decision if she doesn't want to see you

that's fine you have to let her so I stopped probably my pride was quite hurt why aren't I good enough for you she did let me know she did send me a card to say she didn't want to see me and she was moving on she sent you a card I can't remember if it She did send me a card to say she didn't want to see me and she was moving on. She sent you a card? I can't remember if it was a letter or a card. So Lizzie said that you wrote her a letter. Right. Yes, I'm sure she's right.

She remembers all these things, whereas I forget them. But she didn't mention writing a postcard to you. Well, somehow I knew. Oh, God. Maybe it's a fantasy. I don't think it is. I can sort of of hear it so I think it was real yeah her voice saying you know and I can't remember what the words are but basically you're not part of my life and did you think that Annie was thinking about you in the years you were out of touch I thought about her and how she was, but I didn't think she would necessarily be thinking about me.

Why? Because, again, I suppose it's about, like, well, I don't deserve her thinking about me because I behave badly. Did you think that Lizzie would be thinking about you? No. Did you ever think about reaching out to her in that period? No. I thought about her and every out to her in that period? No.

I thought about her and every now and then I'd sort of Google or whatever and you could start Googling. And it was all very exciting. But so I suppose I didn't think about what she'd be thinking. It's that fear of going back to that fear of being 16 and people not wanting to be your friend or 10 and you know not being in the gang not being in the gang yeah the longer it went the less easy it became to sort of connect you said your your mum liked yeah annie did you tell her what happened i probably just said something like you know well well, we don't talk anymore or something. When my mum put together an album of photographs for my 40th birthday,

a picture of me and Anne was part of that. Maybe it was my mum saying, what happened to your lovely friend Anne? Were you worried about bumping into Annie again? I was worried about bumping into Anne. I felt really embarrassed for my bad behaviour Did you ever bump into her? There was one time when I did see her walking down the street

must have been about 18, 19 years after she was striding and she looked beautiful and she looked so sophisticated and I just put my head down and turned away. Why didn't you want to speak to her? I didn't want to have an awkward situation. She said she didn't want to be friends with me anymore and she had a busy life. So did you actually pass her in the street? I think yeah we must have walked past each other. So how many years passed Lizzie before you saw each other again 20 years plus

so what happened how did you reconnect a very dear friend and colleague was very seriously ill and it made me really reflect on life and death and what's important in life and being a good person, but also the importance of friendship. I was also now with my husband and I'd made friends with myself. Facebook was there. I thought, I wonder if she's on Facebook. And she was. So I sent a friend request. So out of the blue she contacted you? Yes and I don't really know why. And did you think about not replying? Oh no, it was different to walking past her in the street. This is different, it came from her so why would I not respond? I was really, really, really happy. We had a correspondence and she invited me for Sunday

lunch a couple of weeks later. You must have been nervous on the doorstep. I can remember going up the path thinking in a few seconds I'm going to see someone I haven't seen for 20 years. I wasn't nervous about it, excited but not nervous. And I just remember the door opening and we both burst into tears and it was it was just very very joyous it was very joyous we both said you look just the same obviously we don't but we feel like we look and are the same it felt very easy immediately did i cry did she say she said you both burst into tears I'm terrible aren't I she still had her punkish short Jean Seberg hair she knows who she is to me that's so cool since you've reconnected

has your relationship changed I think it has I think it's better we want to be good friends and to look after each other. When my mum was very ill, she came to visit my mum. Lots of friends were really kind and generous and checking in with me. But Anne was the friend who actually kind of said, I'm coming down to take you out for lunch. I'm doing it now. She, along with a couple of my other really good women friends,

came to my mum's funeral and I kind of feel like she's there. Annie, to people listening who might be going through this right now, a friendship interrupted or a friendship breakup, what would your advice be? Maybe be more honest with yourself about how you're being so that you can think about things from someone else's point of view it's very easy to get caught up in your own world if a person is living and you cared about them once i'd say try and repair it friendship is good it's a good lovely thing value it value it

and if that resonated with you or if you've repaired a friendship or you're trying to or you're thinking about it do get in touch with us via the Women's Hour website. Look forward to hearing from you. Now, more than 33 million people have been impacted by the devastating floods in Pakistan and over a thousand people have died since mid-June. Pakistani officials estimate that around $10 billion worth of damage has been done, raising concerns about food shortages with crops wiped out. The UN Secretary General yesterday labelled the floods a climate catastrophe and called for global action to help the country. And yet the UK's contribution of up to £1.5 million has been denounced as risible by the Parliamentary International Development Committee in a letter sent yesterday to the Foreign Secretary, who of course he still is trust. The chair of that committee, Labour MP Sarah Champion, joins me now

and I should say we invited a member of the government on, but no one was available. Sarah, why the letter to the Foreign Secretary? Good morning. Good morning. Because I'm genuinely shocked by how little we're pledging, and I'm glad you said it was up to 1.5 million, because it is just that, a pledge. And it's also coming from existing money that has already been pledged. And it's a real contrast to what happened in 2010 when Pakistan also had very severe floods. Then we immediately gave 5 million pounds of new money. And by April, it had reached £134 million. I don't know why we're

backing away from Pakistan. But that's really what it seems like to me. Have you had a response to your letter? I had no response. But also, I've had no response to the big inquiry that the committee did about the aid investment that we make in pakistan we sent them our recommendations uh the key one being to invest more in women and girls and education four months ago and we've not had a response about that either you and i in fact i think before and actually on news night i've had a debate about how effective our aid is where it's been used for how it's been used and there've been various reviews of that but but almost coming away from that because this is about a disaster right now,

I suppose right at the beginning of the programme, we were talking about what people are doing differently to try and save money in this country. In that context, in that climate, what do you have to say to those who perhaps aren't that concerned about this? Well, I completely understand that. And my constituents' top priority is how to get through the winter themselves. But what I would argue is this is money that has already been committed. It's already in the budget.

They're just drawing it forward a little earlier. But also, I just don't agree that the British public don't care about other people around the world that are suffering. I mean, we're talking an unimaginable scale. It's one in seven people in Pakistan are affected by this. A million homes have gone. We're looking at women not being able to get the health care and support they need. They're reckoning that 73,000 women in the next month are going to give birth. And the maternity support just isn't there. It's literally being washed away.

And I also have to bring it back to we have had a very long and very productive relationship with Pakistan. And they're our friend, they're our ally. They do so much around the world to help others. For example, they're hosting 3 million Afghani refugees right now. So when they're stepping up to help others in the world, I just think it's our duty to do the same. Although, of course, there's also concern about supporting Pakistan, not in this particular instance, but some of the politics there and what that says. But you think it's important to keep them close because of that? Well, absolutely. I mean, that makes the argument for me that a lot of people on Twitter sort

of making all these allegations about what Pakistan is and isn't doing. And my view is, well, you know, surely that's why we want to work closely with the government to help them on the right track, to make sure it's a stable country. Because geographically, it's a really key country for us. There's a lot of pretty hostile states around there. And to have a friend that does support our country and that we support in their time of need. I mean, £1.5 million, yes, it's a lot of money, but it's about 4p for each of the people that are affected. And what is that going to do?

There's a massive food shortage that's going to be coming because crops have been washed away, the infrastructure's gone. So helping now and helping quickly would be a good investment long term. Just very, very briefly, our commitment to overseas aid was cut, of course, during the pandemic from 0.7% of gross national income to 0.5% as the chair of this committee that looks at this. Any sign of that being restored or any update on that? None whatsoever. I mean, it was Rishi Sunak that made the cut and it was Liz Truss that implemented the cuts,

which fell most heavily on women and girls around the world. So I can't see that being returned anytime soon. And the damage that that's doing to us internationally, as well as the damage that's doing to the most vulnerable in the world, is pretty catastrophic. So let's hope they have a U-turn on that. Well, there may be more to say, of course, with a new prime minister extremely soon. And we hope to welcome them to the programme and also a representative of the Foreign Office on such subjects.

But no one was available today. Labour MP Sarah Champion was the chair of the committee which has sent this letter to the International Development Committee, which, of course, has a series of cross-party MPs on it. Let me tell you about two students from Pakistan trying to do their bit. They've set up the Mawari Justice campaign to get period products to those women in particular need. I was joined by one of those young women earlier, Bushra Manor, who's running her campaign, Mawari Justice. Mawari means menstruation in Urdu, with her friend Anum Khalid, who she refers to. I began by asking Bushra why she decided to try and help in this way at this time. At the moment, Pakistan

is hit by one of the worst floods that has ever been seen in this country. In the year 2010, there were floods before. I was of age nine or 10 at that moment. And I do remember I was visiting a relief camp with my parents. My parents were distributing food and clothing to the flood victims in our relief camp nearby our hometown. It was a village called Kherabad village. I was visiting the village with them. And I saw a little girl in the camp who was about my age at that moment or maybe a year or two older than me. And she had big stains of blood on her clothes, on her shalwar and on her shirt as well. My mother approached her and gave her a shawl to cover herself and a change of clothes as well. That little girl told my mother that she had nothing to manage her periods with and that she was having a period whilst

she was in the relief camp. When the floods hit Pakistan again in the year 2022, the image of that little girl came to my mind again. And that was the first thing I thought. Once again, women are going to be neglected in the floods. Once again, their needs are going to be dismissed and there will be no one, not even the government will pay heed to their needs and not even the relief campaigners. Menstruation is a big taboo topic in Pakistan and people do not even talk about menstruation and that is why even the problems that menstruators face are dismissed. When we

started this campaign, I along with my friend Anam Khalid, who is also a student, we both are students, the Mahwari Justice is not an organisation, it is not an NGO, it is just a camping started by two students to help the women who are caught in this moment. On that point about relief organisations,

we actually did hear about from one of them, the International Rescue Committee, which is a significant one, which does now, I hope you'll be happy to hear this, include such goods, sanitary towels and other menstrual kits as part of their overall aid kit.

So some of these aid agencies are doing this. I take the point that it remains a taboo. I take the point that it's something that is overlooked. What are you putting together for women at the moment who are in need? What are you trying to give them? We are trying to assist the women to help them manage their periods in a safe manner. What we do is that we collect sanitary items, sanitary pads, cotton pads, cloth pads, as well as underwear. We started this campaign by making a Twitter handle and from which we gave a call and so that people could join us and they could and we gave an

address. I gave my account details and Anam gave her mobile bank access details. And we urged the people to donate. And also a location in Lahore, since I am based in Lahore at the moment and Anam is based in Multan at the moment. You're talking about Anam there, your friend who you're doing this with, I should say. We're doing it together. And we urged the people to donate sanitary pads as well as if they could not donate sanitary pads they could send us funds in the form of it. So what we did is that we collected the items, we packed them together and made a menstrual hygiene kit. Each kit contains of a pack of sanitary napkins and underwear and a small bar of soap. Since I said KVNOT an organization, we tried to reach out a

lot of menstrual relief organizations in Pakistan and other NGOs who are working for the reproductive health of women, but we did not get any positive response. We were told again that these organizations are only doing awareness-based work and me and Anand would urge them that it is not the time to limit their work to awareness only. So we were alone in this camping and we were getting a lot of critiques from the people as well who were saying that menstrual hygiene is not an issue. It is not a genuine need.

But a few days ago, I received a call from a woman in Las Vela. Las Vela is a district in Balochistan that has been worst hit by the floods. She said that the women are using tree leaves to manage their periods and it was devastating. I was heartbroken after receiving this call. We started this camping and so far we have impacted, we have been working on this for about two months now and so far we have impacted about 8,000 women in several districts of Pakistan including the regions of Balochistan, Uttar, Latela, Norski as well as Sarayki, Wasab and now we are in the process of providing menstrual relief

to the women in KP and Sindh as well. We do not have the resources and we only have very limited funds because we are receiving funds that people are donating since no organisation is sponsoring us. We also tried reaching out to the companies who make sanitary pads, but they were not interested.

I was going to ask about that, the companies who make them. Yes, I tried emailing a lot of companies in Pakistan and the response I would get was that they were willing to give us a small discount, a 5% or 6% discount. And when I would say, and Anand would say that,

discount is not what we need. We need more than that. We need your donations. And they would say, we cannot compromise our profits. It was such a sad moment and we had to do everything on our own. About 30 million people in Pakistan have been displaced by these floods.

And we have only been able to reach out to 8,000 women, which is a very small number very small number we are trying to do our best and also uh we are also fighting with our families my family does not support the relief work that I do um why not why not why do they not this is a big taboo I receive a lot of backlash from my family uh they say that I'm being very shameless in doing so and even when we reach out to the media agencies, they say that they cannot cover this topic. They cannot cover this story because it does not line with their policies. So we're facing a lot of problems. We do not have the funds. We do not have the resources. But there are

some people who still continue to support us we receive funds in very small number in the in the amount of 100 rupees or 200 rupees which is even less than a dollar but sometimes um it does give a hope that people uh really really need this and we receive a lot of calls from the women who are in flood affected areas uh who tell us how much desperate we are sending these supplies to doctors who are setting up medical camps in the flood affected areas who tell us how much desperate we are sending these supplies to doctors who are setting up medical camps in the flood affected areas and also to the women and women's based relief organization so what we do is that we pack these uh these these menstrual hygiene kits and we deliver it to them and what next these women do is that they uh they pack these relief kits inside

the russian bags flood affected families are being given ration bags. So we make sure that each family gets at least one kit. Bushra Manohar there, and her campaign is called Mawari Justice, which if you want to look it up on social media, you can. Now, you may remember a few weeks ago, we began to look at so-called fangirls, exploring the subculture of women who come together, usually around a band, that have often been ridiculed,

marred as hysterical, obsessive, juvenile and embarrassing. Well, this week we're taking a look at fangirls and their activism. Joining me now, Professor Jay Song, Associate Professor in Korean Studies at the University of Melbourne, to discuss one of the most active fandoms out there right now, the Korean pop band BTS's fandom, which is often referred to as the BTS Army. And Heta Bat is a junior doctor from London

who I believe is a signed up member of this army. I'll come to Heta in just a moment. Professor Jae-Sung, welcome to the programme. Just a very short appraisal on who BTS are. So thanks for having me, Emma. I'm a big fan of Women's Hour. So BTS is one of the South Korean boy boy band but now i should call them men so they're hitting almost all music chart number one uh bts bt means a bulletproof and s for a boy scout so they started nine years ago

seven beautifully talented men they're all this age in 29 years old who has to unfortunately do a military service soon under South Korean law. There you go. There's quite a lot of other things going on. People talk about their humility actually on social media and how their personalities kind of appeal to this group that, as I say, is called the Army. And they don't just do things to do with the music. They come together to do other things. Is that right, in terms of activism? Exactly, yeah. So ARMY stands for Adorable Representative MC for Youth,

unlike its acronym. So, I mean, you can imagine the 41 million followers on Twitter. So it's actually more than the Australian population and 70.5 million subscribers on their YouTube TV, Bangtan TV. So that's actually more than the UK population. So they're mostly young women in their teens or early 20s, but also including someone like myself, the older generation. And because they're mostly young, they're very sensitive to this youth issue, including mental health, climate change, women and the sexual minority, LGBTQI+.

But they're also mostly ethnic Asian. And because of their ethnic minority status, they're also very sensitive to racism, global inequality, the West-South problem, and very high empathy for the underdog and underprivileged people. And also what's really, really interesting and fascinating is that because they're educated middle class, they have a purchasing power. So whenever there's a new album release, they buy and they actually click those, you know,

billboard chart and the radio spin the streaming views to increase sales. So it's actually the army who make the BTS the best boy band, not the BTS. I mean, they're really, really talented people. But actually it's the fan group, the fangirls that are making the BTS the best boy band in the world. I want to hear a few more details about some of the things that they've done away from buying the albums as well, which has mobilised them around those issues. But Hetta, how did you get into them?

So my best friend from university was actually the one who introduced me to them. And I think she sent me a couple of their videos and some of their their songs and to be honest it was one of those things where once I got into it and once I'd listened obviously the music was very very good and that is what got me into it initially but watching a lot of their other content as well especially at a time like during the Covid pandemic was just like such a fun kind of, you know, just like an online community and something I could sort of go back to after a long day at work.

It was just, it was entertaining. And I think once I started watching, it was just kind of like a deep dive basically into all of that stuff. You mentioned the music. I think it would be remiss not to play a tiny blast. This is Not Today by BTS. Heta, I can already see you moving a little bit. Just, you can't stop yourself. You went to Vegas to see them, is that right? play a tiny blast this is not today by bts peta can already see you moving a little bit just you

can't stop yourself you went to vegas to see them is that right yeah so um they announced they did four shows in vegas in april of this year um and so as i said it was my best friends from university and myself and when they announced them we were like you know if we can get tickets and if we can go this would be such a cool experience to be able to see them live. And yeah, I just feel really lucky that we were able to do that. It was it was fantastic. And we met so many people from so many different countries around the world whilst we were there. So, you know, not just from elsewhere in the States, but people had travelled from everywhere to be there. This idea of social activism in this group, though, and that idea, have you tapped into that? Or are you just looking as a junior doctor, for instance, during the pandemic for some escapism?

Well, I think that was obviously a part of it. And that's what got me into it initially. But and, you know, their music obviously resonates with so many people because the topics they talk about. But in terms of the activism, I just think with with, you know know a group who has a following the size that they do they obviously have a platform they have a voice that people are listening to and I just think it's so admirable really that they choose to be socially conscious and you know lend that voice to you know relevant issues for the youth today and for example like you know they've spoken at the UN about sustainable development goals and so I think that's that's really important and I feel like that was something which I think really sets them apart and that side of them was something which I was like I you know really admire this about them so yeah. Jay let me bring you back in at this point is it then driven by

what the band chooses to talk about that then the followers and the army as it's called go in after what sort of issues are we talking about or is it driven by the army themselves independently yeah for example i mean they organize so many campaigns online and offline one of the examples the army uh you know they did a prank on the camp uh trump campaign rally in tulsa in 2020 they actually register and buy lots of free tickets and actually not buying the register prank on the Trump campaign rally in Tulsa in 2020. They actually register and buy lots of free tickets, actually not buy, they register for free tickets, but they didn't show up.

So Trump had to deliver a speech in an empty stadium, basically. And also they do organize solidarity protests against police brutality. So the hashtag Black Lives Matter. They also, the fandom fandoms they organize charity project and there are hundreds and hundreds of charity project uh raise funds for underprivileged people basically just all over the world and they also use a lot of different strategy online trolls and they're hijacking right-wing hashtags uh and highly coordinated response online this is what makes them so special that they use content

spamming. I was going to say is that driven by BTS though or how do people decide which politician and where to do what? So it comes sometimes just spontaneously and they're responding to like Heta said like the COVID responses and racism or

you know it's not particularly driven by the BTS, the boy band, but it's actually driven and generated by the ongoing social and global issues around the world. And what about in South Korea? Is it a political movement there? Is it a force there? Or do they stay away from politics in South Korea? That was very interesting. I mean, so the band started nine years ago. And back then, they were sort of a very typical sort of pretty boy, kind of a hip hop group. But they started talking about the kind of spoon that you're born with.

So they're talking about the deeply embedded social and economic inequality. And the things that this generation give up in Korea, highly competitive society. So things that they give up like including romance, dating, marriage, childbirth, a stable job and house you just the list goes on. So these are some of the things that actually I teach for my class contemporary Korea and I didn't start as a BTS fan, but I started growing my interest in this boy band because they're talking about this socio-economic and political issues and the global inequality and sustainability, like Heta said. Heta, just finally, for you now, is it part of a friendship for you or is it more the music? Where have you come to to with this we've been thinking about fangirls generally yeah um I think it's it's it's an online community isn't it really that that is what it is um it's people with a shared interest coming together on the internet um I think and BTS have touched on this as well obviously music breaks down a lot of barriers in

terms of language you know a lot of their music is predominantly in Korean I don't speak any Korean um so I think it's kind of like people coming together um getting to know people on the internet because of that shared interest um and obviously we met a lot of people um at the concert as well you know when we went to Vegas so that was kind of like it's not just all virtual heads about we're gonna have to leave it there Professor J Song thank you to you thank you to all of you that's all for today's Woman's Hour thank you so so much for your time. Join us again for the next one. I'm Sarah Treleaven, and for over a year, I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who was faking pregnancies. I started like warning

everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.