Woman's Hour - Helen Heckety, Taylor Swift’s UK tour, Football and domestic abuse

Episode Date: June 24, 2024

Novelist Helen Heckety joins Nuala to talk about her debut work, Alter Ego. It’s about a young woman who decides to leave her old life behind and move to a new place where no one knows she is disabled. Helen, who has a physical disability that can sometimes be invisible, was compelled to write about a disabled character she had never seen represented in literature.According to The Times, Labour – if elected – would make it easier for people to legally transition by removing the need for them to prove they have lived as their preferred gender for two years. They will instead be given a two-year cooling off period after applying for a Gender Recognition Certificate. The Labour Party say there is nothing new in their policy on this. Nuala is joined by Geri Scott senior political correspondent at the Times to discuss. This weekend marked the final dates of Taylor Swift’s Eras tour in the UK - until she returns again in August. The show has been described as a ‘masterpiece’ and ‘seven shades of incredible.’ Journalists Polly Vernon and Anna Willis were lucky enough to attend, and they join Nuala to go over their highlights. Have you been enjoying Euro 2024? While many fans are cheering on their teams, there are some who dread these major sporting tournaments. Research by Lancaster University found that cases of abuse increased by 38% when England lost a football match and by 26% when they won or drew. The BBC’s Daniel Sandford, has been out with Sussex Police, who have been supporting potential victims. He joins Nuala along with Nik Peasgood, Chief Executive of Leeds Women’s AidToday marks the start of World Female Ranger Week, an initiative set up by adventurer and conservationist Holly Budge. It is estimated that only 11% of rangers across the world are female. These women do an important but dangerous job, protecting wildlife from poachers. Holly is also the founder of How Many Elephants, an anti-poaching conservation charity. She joins Nuala to talk on how her adventures led to becoming an advocate for female rangers and animal conservation.Presenter: Nuala McGovern Producer: Maryam Maruf Studio Manager: Donald McDonald

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2. And of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme. Peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, this is Nuala McGovern and you're listening to the Woman's Hour podcast. Hello and welcome to Monday's Woman's Hour. Well, I don't know about you, but I have a Taylor Swift song, really an earworm, in my head all weekend. Shake it off, if you must know, but I don't seem to be able to shake it off. And no, I didn't get to go to one of her concerts, but obviously an awful lot of people did. And they are shy about sharing that experience on social media. Quick scroll, you can see everyone from Greta Gerwig, Phoebe Waller-Bridge, Kate Blanchett, to Princess

Charlotte having a blast. Now, one of my guests says that she laughed, she cried and danced her way through a three-hour masterpiece. My other guest says it was seven shades of incredible. So we will live vicariously this morning on Woman's Hour. That's coming up also today. Helen Hecate has her first novel out, Alter Ego. It's about a young woman, Hattie, who has a hidden disability and is trying to leave her disabled life behind. Helen will be with me in studio. And the novel details the frustration that can be endured by people when their disability

is not visually obvious. Now, maybe you have a story to tell about a hidden disability. Some of the challenges faced that others may not realise or maybe a loved one has gone through that. The number to text is 84844 on social media or at BBC Women's Hour or you can email me through our website. For a WhatsApp message or a voice note, that number is 037 700 100 444. Plus, with the Euros underway, our reporter has been looking into the increase in domestic violence during international football tournaments.

That coming up. But let me begin with an article in The Times today. Labour said it would make it easier for people to legally transition by removing the need for them to prove they have lived as their preferred gender for two years. People wishing to change gender will be given a two year cooling off period after applying for a gender recognition certificate. You'll hear it referred to as a GRC. The Labour Party says there's nothing new in their policy on this. Let's chat with Gerry Scott,

senior political correspondent at The Times, who wrote the piece and joins me now. Welcome to Woman's Hour, Gerry. So Labour Party saying nothing new, is there? Morning.

I mean, yes, look, there is something new here because Labour Party is right that they've set out their plans for reforming gender transitioning and written recognition in the past. But look, we're in an election period now, they've put their manifesto out. And if you look at the things that Labour was saying a year ago, for example, on their green prosperity plan,

things like that, a lot has changed. So I think it's, you know, it's perfectly reasonable to set out what this position is. There are multiple parts of how Labour are making it easier for people to obtain a GRC and this is just the latest in them. So what is in there specifically? So at the moment to get a gender recognition certificate, and I really need to be clear here, only about 2% of transgender people have a GRC. It's not needed to kind of protect your rights. You're already protected under the Equality Act for that. But what it is needed for is to change some legal documents, your birth certificate, your marriage certificate,

that kind of thing. To get that certificate at the moment, one of the hurdles to jump is to prove for two years that you have been living in what is referred to as your affirmed gender. So that can be through maybe like photographs or evidence you've changed your name. In some cases, you can even use things like a library card or a supermarket loyalty card to prove that. Labour thinks that that is inhumane. They think that it is an indignity for transgender people and they think that that should be scrapped.

So that's what they're going to do and introduce the reflection period that you referred to in your intro now they're keeping that because this is a permanent change right if you get a grc this is supposed to be for the rest of your life and what they don't want is for people to be making spur of the moment decisions and then regret it and that's why they're keeping this reflection period in place. But it is a significant kind of softening of the way that you get this certificate. Are these specifics that you've outlined there in their manifesto? So what is in their manifesto is that they want to strip out the indignities and make it easier whilst retaining protections for single sex spaces. And we heard Bridget Phillipson, the Channel Education Secretary, talking about this yesterday,

saying that the Labour want to strengthen the guidance around that. Do they have, for example, the term reflection period or cooling off period? That has not been set out quite so starkly. So, you know, they have committed to reforming the gender recognition process. These are the details of it. Yes. And we did hear that from Sarah Jones from the Labour Party as part of our election debate with senior women last week on the party. There's also in your article the change to how approval of a GRC would take place. Can you elaborate on that?

Yeah, sure. So again, currently, at the moment, two medical professionals, two doctors have to sign off on that process, they have to provide medical reports, what Labour is doing, they're going to take that down to one doctor. And there was some debate. And if I can have a humble brag, again, on the front page of The Times in one of my stories that they were discussing taking that down to allowing a GP to do this. Now, that has been jettisoned. That's not going to happen. There was pushback from GPs, groups also from, as I understand it, West Street and the Shadow Health Secretary wasn't totally comfortable with this. So that person will be a gender specialist, but they will take that down to one doctor. They're also getting rid of the panel of lawyers and doctors that sign these things off and turning it into a registrar model. And basically what we're seeing here

is what they call, like I say, taking the indignities out of it and making it a less kind of medicalised process whilst keeping safeguards in place. Mm-hmm. So a significant change there. Then there is also what was previously the requirement to have consent from the spouse of the person wishing to change gender.

I haven't heard a lot of conversation about that. No, it gets a little bit in the weeds this, because what some of the complication is, is that the Gender Recognition Act is actually it predates same sex marriage and that kind of thing. So this is essentially it was a clause that would stop someone, say a woman being forced into what would essentially be an annulment or a same sex marriage by someone transitioning without their consent. Obviously, it's kind of outdated at this stage because of the changes in the law around marriage. So what Labour's argument is, is that that part is just redundant. Now, there are campaign groups who believe that that spousal clause should remain, and they're quite against that being taken out. But that is another part

of the changes that Labour is looking to make. I want to read a little of what we got from a Labour spokesperson this morning. Labour will modernise, simplify and reform the intrusive and outdated gender recognition law to a new process. We will remove indignities for trans people who deserve recognition and acceptance whilst retaining the need for a diagnosis

of gender dysphoria from a specialist doctor, enabling access to the healthcare pathway. Labour is proud of our Equality Act and the rights and protections it affords women. We will continue to support the implementation of single-sex exceptions. Support the implementation of single-sex exceptions.

Britain is a reasonable and tolerant society where most people know that there are a small number of individuals who do not identify with the gender that they were born into. Labour's plans will protect single sex spaces, treat everybody with respect and dignity, maintain the existing two year time frame for gender recognition and ensure that robust provisions are in place to protect legitimate applications.

Why do you think they've introduced a cooling off period? So what a Labour source said to me yesterday and what is in the Times piece today is that they want to counter any accusation that they are softening the process to the extent where someone could and i want to be very clear this is a quote for someone to put on a dress tomorrow and be able to claim that they are the opposite sex and that is that is essentially what is happening here labor has been at the sharp end of a lot of criticism of women's rights campaigners you know jk rowling in just the last couple of days has been very critical of the party stance. So they are kind of uber aware that they will face pushback and attacks on this.

And that is really what they're doing there. That is why that process has been kept in place. And, you know, it is interesting because actually if you look at some of the evidence that's been provided by various groups, they might say that the period is is kind of redundant anyway. Or you might get other groups saying that period isn't long enough. It needs to be harder. So it is a tightrope for Labour to walk here. Right. And they've been on evolution. They've been on a journey with it. For some people, it's not quite in the right place yet but I think we've seen that completely in the last week even of Keir Starmer answering questions on this that the party is in a completely different

place to what it might have been a year two years ago and so they're trying to balance the kind of competing battle over rights and it's a really tricky process for them. And that is of course Geri Scott from the Times her opinion on Labour's motivations there. But you talk about the criticism. I saw just this morning, Kemi Badenock, Conservative Minister for Women and Equalities, has been critical as well. What did she say? So she said that any of these changes would open loopholes for predators is essentially her concern. What she says is that Labour has never understood this issue. And she,

in fact, points to the criticism from JK Rowling about that. Now, of course, what we have seen is the Conservatives use this issue as well, wanting to make reforms, make it clear the Equality Act applies to biological sex, for example. That's one of the proposals that they've put forward. And what often happens with this issue is there is a lot of heat in the debate and often not a lot of light. And I think we see that on both sides of the spectrum. But yes, Kemi Bain, obviously quite opposed to these proposed changes. Terry Scott, thank you very much from The Times for pieces up there at the moment. As you mentioned,

J.K. Rowling was also in The Times. We also have a live page on the BBC going through some of the latest developments as well. And we heard a comment from the Conservative Party there and some from Labour. If you want to know the policy and pledges of the other

main political parties, you can catch up on the Women's Hour election debate where we featured this topic. Just go to BBC Sounds, look for the episode from Tuesday the 18th of June. It's actually on iPlayer as well

if you'd like to see our lovely studio off 80A. Now, let me move on. It's Taylor Swift. This weekend, I think you know this, but I'll tell you anyway, marked the final dates of her Eres tour in the UK.

She's coming back again in August, but she's performed 10 shows here so far. She's off to Dublin next. That will not be a quiet affair. Lots of celebrities have been spotted at these ginormous gigs in Wembley. There was Sir Paul McCartney. He was dancing and swapping friendship bracelets from fans. Hugh Grant, who else did I see? Cate Blanchett, Greta Gerwig, I was mentioning some of those earlier. I saw Tom Cruise was there. I didn't see them in person.

I saw all this on social media. But some people who were there last night. Let's talk, and actually on Friday night as well. Journalist Polly Vernon, that was last night. And Anna Willis, reporter for My London, was at Wembley on Friday night. Welcome to you both. Polly, let me begin with you. You know, I read a little earlier. Seven Shades of Incredible. Elaborate. Well, I feel I'm only I'm like 12 hours out of Wembley literally at the moment. So I would describe myself as being in the slightly incoherent no deeply incoherent enjoy a space

um I was absolutely but I knew I was going to be blown away and yet I was what was it I mean because we haven't been there we've just been watching 30 second snippets as we scroll what is the overriding what would I say the overriding difference that Taylor Swift was able to bring? She is technically an extraordinary performer. I mean, she was up there for what, three and a half, three and three quarters hours. She didn't flag. The crowd didn't flag. Physically, I don't know how you do that. Her voice was bang on, costume changes bang on.

I even said at one point I realised her hair was doing what she needed it to do. Like, you know, it went a little wild for the vengeful songs. And then it was very neat and princess pretty for the princess pretty songs. But she is just extraordinary. I mean, she's absolutely extraordinary. I've loved her for 12 years, I say. I date it back to the album Red. I think she is genuinely I think she is one of the finest lyricists around.

And she just delivers. She delivers. And she looks like she's having such a good time and the crowd is having such a good time. Had you seen her before? I'd never seen her before. No. Wow. How cool. Well, let me bring your partner in crime in a way that you don't even know about yet, Anna, who was there on Friday night. What would you like to add? I think I'd just like to add, I agree with everything Polly said.

It's an absolutely magical performance. Yeah, she doesn't stop for three and a half hours. The crowd is there with her. It is an incredible, incredible show. Were there any surprises of songs she did or didn't play? On the first night at Wembley on Friday, she did a mash-up of two London songs with a third song. She sang The Black Dog, which is about a pub in Vauxhall. mashup of two London songs with a third song.

She sang The Black Dog, which is about a pub in Vauxhall. And she also added Come Back, Be Here, which has the lines, I guess you're in London today. And then she also added in the song Maroon in to make it sort of a pretty epic, pretty epic tale of love and loss and a romantic relationship breaking down which was pretty special so we're on monday morning are you still on a high from friday oh i i think i won't it won't go away for a while i woke up on saturday morning and burst into tears because i realized

it was all over maybe you'll go back in august um but i wanted to talk a little bit about the theatrics so you were there last night polly there was There was, Travis Kelsey was on stage, wasn't he? He was, which was just the best. There was sort of two or three milliseconds of people working out. And then everybody, the auditorium gasped, the arena gasped. It was extraordinary. And then cheered. And he looked like he was having such a good time.

And I did think, I think this one might stick because he seemed so game. It was lovely. And I should say for those who don't follow Taylor or American football, he is the Kansas City Chiefs tight end, as that particular role is called, that he has. And he was on stage in a tuxedo acting out, I suppose, this character, but a bit of a love story, excuse the pun, that was taking place in front of the audience. Well, he just he actually just kind of did a costume change on her. It wasn't even that it was it was that subtle. And it was that when she didn't really look at him. But it was it was just gorgeous. It was super really look at him, but it was just gorgeous.

It was super fun. We should also say he's her boyfriend. I don't think we made that clear. Yes. How would you, and I'll come to you, Anna, in a moment as well, talk about the scale or theatrics of this performance? I mean, you always know with those shows

that you're going to get something extraordinary and throw her into the mix and she is a perfectionist and an unbelievably hard worker so yeah it was completely extraordinary I have to say there was some staging on some songs which from a new album which I kind of you know I'd liked I'd liked and I'd admired but that was interesting but to see them and see the staging on them can you describe it called who's afraid of little old me and I it was just it was a whole other level and it made the song live for me in a way it hasn't before and she just looked like she's having an incredibly good time so yes can you describe Polly what that looked like any of that staging well so that that song is it's a song about being kind of being driven to madness by somebody

hurting you um and coming back as as a demon so but as she's she's almost dead she's she's haunting her her ex-partner is that the funeral procession part it i think that i think it begins the funeral procession i can't quite remember but it's like the stage is strobing in black and white and they've just they've got incredible animation of because there's a line in it um about her levitating so there's just an animation her levitating and then she's raised up on a box and it is like she levitates uh but they just they close up on her face and they turn her eyeballs white I mean it's just and she looks evil and beautiful and yeah so that that was yeah again I expected it I knew it was going to be this good it was still mind-blowing it sounds like Anna let me come back to you. Was there any of the staging or perhaps

that performance level that we're not seeing with some other concerts that particularly grabbed you? I mean, I do think the sheer size of the performance makes a massive difference. I mean, she's playing to a stadium of 90,000 people and people say there is no bad seat at the Iris Tour. you could be in the nosebleeds and you are still getting an incredible show but um the attention to detail in things like bringing out an entire cabin for the folklore era yeah like a full house um that she sits on the roof before coming down to play another song. And she, I think Polly's example of Who's Afraid of Little Old Me is also an excellent one.

It really is quite extraordinary. The thing is, you talk about the nosebleed there, etc. But these tickets were expensive. And I mean, to, you know, crazy prices, of course, if you go kind of at the higher level of it as well. How do you, how are you thinking about that when you look at the crowd or you look at the concert? I think, and I was speaking to a lot of people

in the crowds throughout the day on Friday before I went in. I think I do think that people who were able to secure tickets back during the general sales back like a full year ago, they were paying anywhere between I think don't quote me on this too much, but between about 100 pounds, up to about 450 pounds 500 for VIP access which gives you earlier entry making you allowing you to be closer to the stage um but then what it's the the expensive tickets have really come from how quickly the tour sold out um and resale tickets being sold on alternative sites for well above their original value. I think that's really where the expensive tickets have come from.

And did you hear that? Did you hear complaints from fans? I know you were out chatting. I think what I was mostly hearing was that people were getting their tickets from having bought Taylor Swift's previous album, Midnight, early and getting codes there. Ticketmaster was very unkind to a lot of people and did not send any codes out which you needed to be able to access the ticket pages. So a lot of people were only able to buy tickets through previous album codes and stuff. I understand. But very little complaints, seemingly, about the price of the tickets because a lot of these people would pay anything to have seen Taylor.

If they have it, indeed. I mean, some might say it's excluding for some fans. Taylor's impact on the UK. One line, Polly. Marvellous. And to you anna how would you describe taylor's impact on the uk and she's coming back uh it's been absolute swift mania in the uk for weeks can it sustain it sustained you all weekend do you really think she she can sustain that level of interest when she comes back in August for another few shows? Yes, I can. Now, so we lived vicariously about last night. Polly Vernon, thanks so much to her and also Anna Willis, who's a reporter for My London.

I've never seen her live. I have to say it does sound like a very good time. What a turn to Helen Hecate. She found herself at a loose end during the pandemic. Her work as an actor had stopped. She moved back in with her mum. She was bored, a bit frustrated. She started writing. And at the time, Helen was also shielding.

She has a physical disability that can sometimes be hidden. She had rarely seen herself represented in literature. A 2019 study found that only 3.4% of children's books have disabled main characters. The statistic even is expected to be similar in adult fiction, although I was having a look this morning and it's impossible to find figures that you can hang your hat on. So Helen set out to write the story she'd always wanted to see on the shelves herself.

The result is her debut novel, Alter Ego. It's about Hattie. It's a young woman who decides to leave her old life behind and move to a new place where no one knows she is disabled. She wants to start again. It is funny, frustrating at times as well. And I'm thrilled to say that Helen Hecate is with me here in the Woman's Hour studio. Welcome. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me on Women's Hour. This is very exciting. Well, it's very exciting to have you here. You know,

I threw out the number just at the top of the programme to people if they had a hidden disability, and I'm just going to have a read in a moment so many have come in just during those first couple of items but tell us what inspired you to write Alter Ego. Well I think as you said like I just didn't see myself represented in literature at all when I was growing up you know like living with a disability we talk as women a lot about not seeing ourselves in the magazines and things like that which is totally valid but there is no disability representation in magazines in literature in films you're often seen as a character that promotes a lot of pity or you're this incredibly

inspiring person who never does anything wrong and it's kind of like god's gift to earth so i really just wanted to portray a woman like myself in her 20s trying to find herself and that has all the kind of problems and issues and identity struggles that everyone else does but is also battling ableism at the same time and I think we're still not very used to using the word ableism and talking about how that affects people. How would you describe ableism and talking about how that affects people. How would you describe ableism

if somebody wasn't familiar with the term? Yeah sure so it's basically just the assumption that because somebody has a disability they are lesser than you in some way and that can come in all different types of forms and a lot of it is, I think ignorance, I think people don't know where to start with it. There's a lot of fear still around it. And also the problems kind of create this circle. So if you think about on the tube in London, a lot of it isn't accessible for wheelchairs. And because a lot of it isn't accessible for wheelchairs, it means that in everyday life, people don't see wheelchairs users a lot. And because of that, they then don't think about how inaccessible the tube is for wheelchair users, because they the lifts are ages away and loads of these stations don't have lifts and the stairs are really, really difficult to navigate.

So that's just one example. I'm not a wheelchair user myself, but I think it is, you know, I do find the stairs difficult and just coming here today, like I always have to wait. People are always rushing past me. Like I have to be really careful that I don't get knocked over just trying to navigate London. It's which is just even you saying those words brings me back to Hattie, the protagonist in your novel. I'm just going to read a comment and I know you're going to read a little bit from your book in a moment as well. Let me see. This is, I have a hidden disability. I've also been shouted at by someone for parking in a disabled parking place, which I needed because I didn't have the bad showing. Sometimes I wear my sunflower lanyard as I ask for more patience from people

when things take me longer or I need to do things in a different way. My conditions are also fluctuating, which means that people sometimes seem to judge me as able to do some things which have been possible to do using a lot of energy and planning when in a period of wellness, which actually I can't do at that time. I hope this contribution is helpful.

I think it is because it illustrates those challenges if, in fact fact you have an invisible or a hidden disability a hundred percent so Hattie in the book Alter Ego she um she describes it as somewhere between being invisible and visible so part it depends how she dresses she has um some weakness in her muscles it's sometimes more seen if she wears like a short skirt or something but she feels that she can cover it with high boots and tights um but then there's other parts of her disability like her fatigue as that um uh caller or emailer in yeah um was talking about and of course it fluctuates so um that's the thing. It's like, it's so difficult

that you always have to raise your voice and try to explain to people. Like as that person said, like they are just going about their life and someone is shouting at them. They think it's their right to shout at them and demand for them evidence of why they are parking in a space

they're allowed to park in. Do you want to read a little? Yeah, absolutely. This is a passage from your book. This section is? So this is H passage from your book at this section is um so this is Hattie decides to leave her old life and she just as you said at the beginning she decides to try and live as though she doesn't have a disability I will just say the book is a journey and I can say that that plan doesn't necessarily go as she thinks it's going to go

in case everyone thinks that my solution to this is for all all of us just pretend we're not disabled that is not the point uh the point is that that is often what society is telling us they want us to do as i headed onto the motorway one of the shoe boxes i chucked into the back got dislodged and sent my printer careering towards me wedging itself between the front seats above the handbrake. I couldn't shove it back while I was driving. Black ink had started to slowly seep out of its mouth. I pulled over at the surfaces and tried to sort it, stuffing in tissues to soak up the leak. As I moved it into the back again, the scanner lid lifted to reveal the folded sheet I'd hidden

in there. If you need to hide something, hide it in a scanner. No one ever looks there. I could see the words I'd written at the top of the page through the other side of the paper. The plan. I reached out for it, but before I touched it, I realised I had black ink all over my hands, so I grabbed my keys and made my way to the loo. As I turned the taps on I thought of the plan so precious to me that I didn't want to muddy it with black smudges it had to be perfect it had to stay intact I pumped the soap dispenser and went over it in my head leave old life without anyone knowing the real reason and then from the day you arrive in Wales you are not disabled welcome to your new life not quite in Wales yet but having left London

I was in some sort of grey zone a purgatory my old life was over but my new life hadn't yet begun the liminal space of that service station bathroom. I stared in the mirror and realised I'd got ink on my lip. It's so poignant, this thought of being able to start again without the frustration that is imposed upon you by an ableist society. Is it something that has ever gone through your head? Oh, yeah. I've always got a backup plan just to get out of here.

I do. Can you tell me about, well, you can't really tell me. I'm just with the book. It's like you tell nobody the plan. Maybe you can tell me the plan. Well, I think I do quite well in Scotland in some sort of hut in the Highlands. You know, sometimes I think it's, I mean,

when I was writing this book, like we said, it was in the pandemic. I was so tired, like I was so tired of having to explain to people why, yes, they have to wear a mask, I'm afraid, because I quite like to keep my life. Like, and the political situation at the time was really frightening as well. And I think a lot of disabled people felt like they weren't cared about. So there's that. And there's just the everyday stuff that I've already talked about and there's stuff like being a young person and trying to date

and all of those things um which is really tricky and at some point you just go oh I just want to leave it all behind and like raise a sheep but yes but then even raising that sheep, if it were Hattie, for example, that comes with challenges as well, because you need society to make adjustments to help you live your best life, to use a term that is within the book. She's really annoying at times, Hattie. She's no angel. Tell me about your thinking about creating that particular thing I wanted her to be real like like I say disabled people aren't angels like I'm a disabled person I'm really annoying sometimes and I also make mistakes and Hattie makes a really really big mistake in thinking that this is the solution and Hattie has to learn and she has to realize that she's sort of betraying herself by editing out this really kind of fundamental part of herself

and trying to pretend to be something she's not. And whether you've got a disability or not, I think we can all relate to trying to pretend to be something that we're not at one time or another. It's kind of like imposter syndrome writ large. Here's a few more comments coming in. On invisible disabilities, it's so frustrating to have people judge me

for using a disabled toilet when I'm not obviously disabled. I have Crohn's disease. I'm a young, healthy looking woman and it's upsetting enough to need to use the toilet urgently without added judgment from people who don't know the full story.

Another. Last summer, I lost my hearing and balance on one side after a severe ear infection. Now I sometimes list to one side looking drunk and often miss it when people speak to me. When I sometimes list to one side looking drunk and often miss it when people speak to me. When I say I'm sorry I'm deaf they often assume I'm kidding or exaggerating. It can be frustrating but I guess it could have been much worse. They probably strike a chord. They so do. I just want to say to everyone that's written in or has

thought about their own stories from listening to this like i just want to send you the biggest hug and tell you that none of this is your fault all these times you felt ashamed you felt like you shouldn't be in the toilet you have to explain explain your situation you don't have to it's society asking you for evidence that you don't have to give and in order to get the whole point of putting this book out there is that i want other authors to come through and write their stories that they want to write. I want more representation in magazines. I want to see disabled people getting the equality they deserve. Well, let's talk about the publishing industry, because as I was researching this, I noticed a couple of years ago Amazon added, for example, the subcategory disability fiction.

And I wondered, do you find that progress? Yeah, I mean, disability isn't a bad word. So disabled or disability, I use all the time, and I'm proud to use it. It is, it's a great book is what I kind of want to say, like whether you have an interest in disability or not. So it's not like a specialist subject that only if you're disabled, you can understand or read. It's for everyone. I mean, I can't really speak to why they've put that category.

It was pushed by a couple of women, actually, that wanted to see it because you had these other subcategories. They wanted to see representation. Victoria Scott was one of them, I know. And to try and get recognition yeah I mean it's bad out there so whatever can be I mean I was told by one publisher in an email back that I she hadn't bothered to finish the book she told me but she told me that I should stop trying this because I was being very ableist and I was going to get removed from my own

community my own disabled community by suggesting that someone might want to live without a disability. But she hadn't finished the book, so she doesn't know the story. Right. I'm wondering, you mentioned film and stuff. Do you think it's different in literature compared to TV or film? There's been some really good examples in TV and film, like Sex Education did a really good storyline with a disabled character. There's also been some really disappointing representations where, again, they fall into that pity character or an inspiration or they just sort of die at the end,

which seems a shame because, you know, we're very much living. Yes, you are. With this book, did I read... You're going to make some money off it. You're going to get some more tattoos. Oh, yeah, hopefully. I'd like to cover myself. I've got one on my arm.

What's there on your arm? Let us describe. It's like a rib cage and then there's a rose growing out of it. What I did have was a tattoo on my thigh that said, it was for when I died, ironically, just saying that we're living. But for when I died and it said, dear mortician, I hope you're having a better day than I am. It was like a note for the mortician to read.

But unfortunately, the guy that did it messed up the lettering so I had to get it covered. I thought it was going to say something else. Yeah. He messed it up. So I would like the money to be able to get that tattoo redone. It's a great book, Alter Ego. It makes me think and it'll make our listeners think

in a whole different way. It opens a world that we don't always get to enter. So thank you for that. I want to read just one more comment before I let you go. Helen Hecate, Alter Ego is the book. Oh my goodness. Thank you for discussing hidden illnesses. I have fibromyalgia, currently having a flare up. So even writing this is taking effort. And that's one of the things I wish more people understood. Every little thing, even brushing my teeth, which used to be such a normal non-thing, I have to make myself feel proud for the smallest thing,

like having a shower. And I feel like I'm missing my life. There are things about it I'm grateful for, but things like watching all my friends go to Glastonbury without me can make it hard. Thanks for discussing. A hundred percent. Glastonbury needs to change make it hard. Thanks for discussing. A hundred percent. Glastonbury needs to change so that it's more accessible for people.

It's not you that needs to change. It's the world. And I'm really sorry that you're finding it so hard because it is difficult. And I send you a hug as well. Helen Hecate, thanks for coming into

the Women's Hour studio. Thanks so much for having me. It's a pleasure. Now, maybe some of you have been watching the Euros. There's lots of fans cheering on their teams. But there are some people who dread these major sporting tournaments. There is research by Lancaster University that show that cases of abuse increased by 38%.

This is one example when England lost a match. And by 26% when they won or drew. So maybe that's surprising. The National Police Chiefs Council has sent out recommendations to police forces in England and Wales to help safeguard victims and target perpetrators of domestic abuse. BBC's Home Affairs correspondent, Daniel Sanford, has been out with Sussex Police,

who have been reaching out to known potential victims and even providing them with equipment to keep them safe. Welcome to Women's Hour, Daniel. Thank you. As evidence has mounted up that domestic violence increases during international tournaments, police forces have been taking the issue more and more seriously, at last, some people might say. For example, Sussex Police told me that the number of 999 calls it received linked to domestic violence doubled during the Qatar World Cup two years ago.

So this year, they're putting extra domestic violence specialists in the control room during the tournament to make sure those calls are being dealt with better. And while in Sussex, I went to see a woman called Lisa and her son Joshua. Those are their real names, but they asked us not to use their surnames. And I went to talk to them about the violence she suffered over almost three decades from her partner, Lee. And just before we hear those clips, I should say that some may find these details upsetting. I was with him for 29 years.

The violence started probably a year after I moved down here. He was all right for the first eight, nine months. I used to think he was sorry in the beginning. When he used to go to work, he was a lot worse. Yeah, when he went to work, he was a lot worse because he had to get out of bed and used to go to work he was a lot worse. Yeah when he went to work he was a lot worse because he had to get out of bed and go to work then he did a physical job and he used to come home every day steaming. I can picture one now, I just walked in the room and he got hold of a dressing gown cord and put it around my neck and tried to choke the life out of

me. That was a really bad one, he's knocked me out a few times, a few times, just from punches on my face and I'm out cold, out cold for hours on end and he never got any help or anything like that. I remember that one where we were stood at the top of the stairs and they were absolutely screaming at each other and he just smacked her straight in the face and she just smacked the floor. He used to throw me out of the car on the M25. While it was moving? While it was moving.

He controlled every aspect of my life. Everything I wore, ate, where I slept, everything. With violence. That's how he controlled me. Put cigarettes out on my face. And almost unbelievably, Lisa told me that when the Euros or the World Cup were on, things got even worse. He gambled on the football. He left us without food money

so he could gamble on the football. Even if the money was in my bank account, which it very rarely was, he would demand it so that he could bet on the football on a tournament, these particular tournaments in particular, because it's easier to bet on countries than, on a tournament, these particular tournaments in particular, because it's easier to bet on countries than it is on teams. I mean, in the next week, it's going to be on like three times a day. He'd probably gamble every day. And if there was a tournament, he'd drink a lot. Drink made him even worse.

Ten times worse. He liked a vodka Red Bull, didn't he? He liked a vodka Red Bull and a Stella. And Stella, yeah, he did. He was a monster on Stella. He just got ten times worse. And you knew that if he got drunk that was going to be a problem?

Yeah. Even if I was in bed asleep, he'd make it a problem, wouldn't he? He'd wake me up. Yeah. I'm actually looking forward to this tournament so that me and my son can actually watch it in peace. She told me that eventually it was her son Joshua and daughter Jessica, who are both now adults, who persuaded her to talk to the police. And last year, her partner Lee was jailed for 38 months for coercive and controlling behaviour.

It's shocking testimony that you heard there, Daniel, from her. But you've also been speaking and been with the police who are taking action to try and help women who are in violent relationships during this tournament. Yeah, so basically, they're launching a massive information campaign, making sure women know what help is available, encouraging them to come forward and seek help from the police, or from the council or charities like Women's Aid, if they prefer. But these days, it's also about going out and visiting women who officers have identified as being at risk of violence, providing with panic alarms, with door braces to hold door shuts, information about their partner's previous violent relationships that they may not know.

And I went out with the team in Littlehampton with Martin Elchingad, a detective sergeant specialising in domestic violence cases, and Sam Fleming, who's an independent domestic violence advisor employed by West Sussex Council. Turn right onto East Street, B2187. That'll be the next right up here. How many visits are you getting through this week, do you think? So we've nominated 50.

Last time we did it, we were successful in about 70% of the visits. Every team will have with them some door braces, some panic alarms, some window alarms. They will, whilst they're speaking to a victim, they'll go through a safeguarding plan which will look at their current circumstances, any risks that we've identified to them o ran cyfnodau cyffredinol, unrhyw risg sydd wedi'u cydnabod i'w gilydd ac y gallant eu gadael yn ôl gyda'r gwaith diogelu eu safon, os yw'n angenol neu os nad yw'n cael un. I'r ddyn nesaf hefyd, rydym wedi'i gynnal ysgrifennu Llywodraeth Claire.

Felly, rydym wedi cydnabod bod ei rhan fater ex-dyn wedi ddynnu partnerau gynharach ac mae'r dyn hwn ddim yn gwybod hynny. Efallai y bydd hi'n credu ei fod yn ei hun. has abused previous partners and this victim may not be aware of that. She may think it's just her. Obviously we'll have a little look at reviewing her risk, the level of risk and current circumstances. And based on that then we would complete some safety planning, build a relationship so that they feel they can sort of access that support. Park somewhere here, yeah? Yeah.

OK, see you shortly. Sussex Police told me that they will, of course, always relentlessly pursue perpetrators of domestic violence, but more and more during football tournaments and times like Christmas and the New Year, they are trying to make their preventative work much more effective, and that's what this is all about. Thanks very much, Daniel.

Well, listening to your report is Nick Peacegood, Chief Executive of Leeds Women's Aid. Welcome to Women's Hour, Nick. We're speaking here specifically about football and domestic violence. But what are you hearing or seeing? It's not like football causes domestic violence? Absolutely yes good morning everyone football doesn't cause domestic violence it doesn't nothing causes domestic violence other than the people that perpetrate it but what football creates is factors around it including alcohol intake heightened emotions and they can exacerbate abusive behaviours and that's what some of the women that are calling us are saying is happening at the moment. What are you hearing? So what we've seen is particularly in the correlation of closures of pubs,

people are generally watching football more at home. It's easier and cheaper to get drink. And what women are calling and telling us is that people that are already abusive that you know it's very rare that watching football and drinking causes an abusive situation if there hasn't already been abuse but what we're seeing is just that increase in escalation and lack of consideration for what's happening around them. So alcohol does get rid of your inhibitions. And so people are much more likely to be abusive

when heightened emotions are already there. Has there been an increase since the Euros have been on? Absolutely, yes. I mean, in the first week, we saw a 22% increase on the same time last year. There's been a further 10% increase this year. But interestingly, the day after the first England game, we had an increase in calls by 48%. And the day after the second England game,

we had an increase of 65% in calls. And what to, and it is primarily, it is women that are calling you, what are they saying? Well, I mean, people are experiencing all sorts of things. It could be from being shouted at, being stopped to be able to go out, being physically abused, sexually abused, trapped in the house, not being able to phone anybody. We saw a decrease in calls directly after the match and that happened as well when we had the first lockdown. So people aren't able to get to the phone but then afterwards maybe people have gone out, they've gone to work. That's when women generally will call.

Let me get your thoughts on what the police forces are doing. I mean, I was struck when Daniel was bringing us that report of what they're calling preventative work, but it's giving panic alarms, being able to jam a door

or a window. Frightening stuff. Yeah, frightening stuff, but real life reality for many victims and families. And is that the way to prevent domestic violence, according to you? It isn't the way to prevent it in terms of getting rid of the problem, but it's a short term solution, I suppose, to an event that we know will have a huge escalation. So we know that these actual days and times have huge spikes. And so if you can do something to protect somebody at that time, it might prevent that particular incident. It might prevent a severe incident, but it won't stop it happening in the future.

It won't create a solution to domestic abuse. Some women might be listening now who are going through something like you have described. What would your advice to them be? I would say don't deal with this alone because domestic abuse isn't just about somebody being physically violent. It's about controlling behaviour. It's about cutting you off from your friends and family. So just try to reach out to somebody

and share what you're going through because that way you're not dealing with it by yourself and i understand police forces near you you're in leeds have done something similar to those in sussex they have i'm not aware of any specifically over this year rose but certainly previously they've targeted known offenders and they've been there they've used socials they've done done they've made their presence aware to tell people, look, we know you're an abuser and we will come

for you if you do something. I want to thank you for joining. Thank you, Nick. Nick Peasgood, Chief Executive of Leeds Women's Aid. We also were joined a little earlier by my colleague, Home Affairs Correspondent, Daniel Sanford. Thanks to both of you. Another message coming in.

We're talking about hidden disabilities. This is from Sarah. I heard you're talking about hidden disabilities and disability in fiction. I'm 34. I have fibromyalgia and I'm an ambulatory wheelchair user. I've dealt with a lot of ableism as I look fine. How disgusted it looks when I use disabled parking.

Being called lazy and a drain on society. It's really disheartening. Accessibility is very difficult. I live in the countryside and the nearest town is a hilly historic market town. I love living here, but it's hard. I'm also an archaeologist and avid gamer. And when playing Elder Scrolls online, I found an archaeologist in a wheelchair in the city of Solitude.

I nearly cried. I'd never felt so represented in my life i visit her often to chat when i'm playing thanks for getting in touch with that message 84844 and um also some of the stories we're hearing there about domestic violence and in particular and what has been happening over the past few weeks if that is an issue you've been affected by by domestic violence there are links to support and information on the woman's hour website okay today marks the start of world female ranger week it's an initiative set up by the adventurer and conservationist holly budge

it is estimated that about 11 percent of rangers across the world are female. They do important, dangerous jobs protecting wildlife from poachers. Holly is also the founder of How Many Elephants, that is an anti-poaching conservation charity. She was also the first woman to skydive Mount Everest. I want to ask her why, but it also inspired her to summit that same mountain. And Holly joins me in the Woman's Hour studio. Well, I'm glad to catch you on the fly. You might know where you might be. It's great to be here.

And now the work of rangers, I gave a quick line there, but how would you describe it? I work with about five and a half thousand female wildlife rangers around the world and I'm inspired by them daily so they're out there day and night patrolling monitoring wildlife in many places seizing snares which are wire traps and in some instances arresting poachers so I say to people climbing Everest is like child's play wet compared to patrolling on the front line with all female mixed ranger teams that I've spent time with in Africa. And you just think this is what they're doing day in, day out. And why do we need a world female ranger week? Because I was so inspired by the women that I have spent time with on the front line that I wanted to create a platform to

share their stories, amplify their voices in the global media. So that was the inspiration behind it. But also women have unique needs, different needs to men. So this is very much not about putting male rangers down. And this year we've had a huge amount of male rangers come forward and become ambassadors and talking about how much support they've got for their female colleagues. But an example for you, Nuala, is, for example, the first all-female ranger team came about just over a decade ago and no one ever thought to put a sports bra as part of their uniform so

they're patrolling 20 kilometers a day you know this lady had back pain shoulder pain so we got her a sports bra personal hygiene products when these women spend days at a time out in the bush you know all these considerations are different and also another challenge that keeps coming up over and over is social stigma. Yeah how is that I suppose accepted in certain parts of the world of course it's going to be very different but the Black Mambas are very famous at this stage. They are based in? They're in South Africa. In South Africa and I know they got a lot of attention for being all female rangers. But I imagine in some other countries, perhaps there's even more obstacles to overcome. Yeah, I mean, culturally, in many places, a woman sleeping out in the bush or out in the forest with men, with a man that she's not related to or not married to.

You know, this is pretty groundbreaking stuff. And what do the women tell you about why they do that? Like, how are they able to overcome those societal taboos, so to speak, to be able to, you know, they're not married or engaged, whatever, they're with men that are not part of their family structure. Yeah, I mean, these women, the ladies that I've had the privilege of spending time with and working with, they, you know, they're bold and they're brave and they're paving the way for women to stand at the forefront of conservation with men.

But they're also changing the attitudes towards the role of women around the world. So they're, you know, they're pioneering in that respect. Your charity, How Many Elephants, was born out of this concern for poaching rates of elephants across the continent of Africa. How's it going? I mean, I've turned something

that I found very disheartening, statistics of 96 elephants being poached each day in Africa. I turn that into a design-led globally, a global traveling exhibition that showcases 35,000 elephants on the wall. That's the annual poaching rate in Africa. And the whole thing with my campaign is it's non-gruesome, it's non-gory, it's non-political. I'm just visualizing the data and when you see 35,000 elephants like same elephant repeated over and over you know it's it's proving very impactful and allowing me to connect with many different types of audiences including going into schools

young people and people like me that don't want to see gruesome gory images and you can't unsee that right is when you have a female ranger in whatever part of the world she may be um what does she give her number one reason if there is a general uh response on why she's doing it for doing the work that she's doing do you know that it's so varied the response, but most of them, the ripple out effect of employing women from local communities that we're seeing 10 years on. These women are now breadwinners. They're buying land. They're building houses. Their kids are in school.

They're getting degrees, education. They've got access to health care. So I guess for them, it's having that means to support their families and research says un research says that women put 80 of their earned income back into their families so the ripple effect of that is it's huge it's amazing really holly budge adventure and conservationist thank you so much for coming into the woman's hour studio. It's been great to have you. I want to read some of the messages that have been coming in. Here's Deb. I'm 65.

I'm retired and tired. I've had MS for 35 years. I have a limp. When anyone asks me, what's wrong with you then? I tell them I've had a skiing accident. I'm not helping the need to educate people about disability awareness, am I? I'm just going for the easy option. I've never skied in my life.

Then I got breast cancer. That's another story. Well, Deb, we are here to hear all your stories. Also, going back to where we were at the top of the hour. Hey, hey, hey. I was at Taylor's show on Saturday, the 22nd of June. She was absolutely incredible. The first time I saw her was 10 years ago on the Red Tour.

It was truly like going home. I danced the whole night and hardly filmed anything. I did capture a beautiful photo of Taylor smiling at the crowd after champagne problems. I'm seeing her again in August with my two best friends and I cannot wait. Join me tomorrow. We'll be discussing Northern Ireland in the run-up to the election. What are women voters

looking for? Also, Radio 3 presenter Georgia Mann will be opening the Crowsnet at Glastonbury on Friday with classical music. We'll talk about that tomorrow. That's all for today's Woman's Hour. Join us again next time. Hello, I'm India Ackerson

and this funny thing happened to me once. I was born and so were you. And the thing is, from the moment egg met sperm, we've been shaped by our world in so many more ways than you think. And our series Child from BBC Radio 4 gets into that. The extraordinary life events of pregnancy, birth and the first 12 months

tell us a lot about ourselves, our society and where we might be heading. The brain of a baby holds the secrets to the origins of human thought. Mothers undergo transformations we are only just comprehending. And the way attitudes to birth change affects every single one of us. Listen on BBC Sounds. I'm Sarah Treleaven and for over a year I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who was faking pregnancies. I started, like, warning everybody. Every doula that I know.

It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story. Settle in. Available now.