Woman's Hour - Ida B Wells, Dementia, Midwives

Episode Date: May 13, 2020

Ida B. Wells was an journalist and campaigner. She's just been honoured with a special Pulitzer Price for her courageous reporting of the violence inflicted on African Americans during the lynching era. Professor Paula J. Giddings, who's written a biography of her, tells us about Ida and all that she achieved.We're talking about dementia during lockdown and how challenging it can be for carers. Research carried out by the University of Exeter shows that many people living with dementia, as well as their carers, already felt isolated and lonely before COVID-19 but now these feelings have intensified. Jane speaks to Professor Linda Clare about the research and to Philly Hare who's Co-Director of Innovations in Dementia CIC. They've worked with people who have dementia and have come up with practical tips.Due to COVID-19 midwives all around the world are facing new challenges. We speak to Anneka Knutsson from the UNFPA which works in over 150 countries and also Tania Akter, who's a midwife in a very remote part of Bangladesh. And from today, for people in England, restrictions on exercise have been lifted. Now people can do all kinds of sport including fishing! Beaky Allesch-Taylor joins Jane to talk about why she can’t wait to return to the riverbanks for some fly fishing.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme, peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hi, this is Jane Garvey and this is the Woman's Hour podcast from Wednesday the 13th of May 2020. Thank you, good morning. And we're talking about fly fishing today actually in celebration of the fact that in England you can once more go fishing. Also today, Ida B Wells, more about the life of the African-American journalist and activist, phenomenal woman, who refused to give up her seat in a first-class lady's car on a train

back in 1883. Another of those names you really should know. Midwives around the world, we'll look at the challenges they're facing at the moment. We'll talk to one midwife. I've already spoken to her actually in a remote part of Bangladesh. She is worried. She's seeing fewer women and is very concerned, as you might expect, about home deliveries and fly fishing a little bit later. But we're going to start with a conversation about living with dementia and caring for somebody with dementia at this pretty difficult time. Research from the University of Exeter has shown that many people living with dementia and their carers felt isolated before lockdown and COVID-19. And now, of course, these feelings are amplified.

We'll talk to Dr Linda Clare, Professor of Clinical Psychology of Ageing and Dementia at Exeter's Medical School. Also to Philly Hare, Co-Director of Innovations in Dementia. This is an organisation that's working alongside people with dementia to produce resources giving practical advice for carers and for volunteers. And your thoughts and your experiences and indeed your questions, welcome. I'm looking at the screen now. I've got the Twitter feed.

It's at BBC Women's Hour. Ping in a comment or a question for our first topic this morning. We'd really appreciate this. Let's go first to Linda. You were researching before lockdown, Linda. Who are you looking at? How many people? Where are they? So the research we were doing, or we are continuing to do, is a programme called improving the experience of

dementia and enhancing active life or ideal and ideal was set up to try to understand why it is that some people with dementia do a lot better than others and why some carers do a lot better than others and we know a certain amount about this but we wanted to focus in particular with a large group of people in this country to try to understand some of the social and psychological factors that make are much more to do with other aspects of their life, their own resilience, the support they have around them, and the extent to which communities are accepting and supporting of them. So we are trying to understand more about that with a large group of people so that we can help to shape the way that policy is developed and services are provided

and communities are supported to include people with dementia in the future. But what is troubling obviously is that people with dementia and the people living with them and looking after them felt isolated and lonely and vulnerable before lockdown. And that was with the possibility of trips out, day centres, all the services running, groups you could go to. How are these people faring now? Well, that's right. And we find that people with dementia and carers do feel often and often are isolated and often feel lonely. Carers of people with dementia in particular experience a high level of loneliness compared to the rest of the population.

So introducing the social restrictions that we've seen has been very challenging. For people with dementia, what they tell us is that personal contact is absolutely crucial. So the loss of that personal contact has been very severe. People need the usual activities and routines. Those are things that keep them going, that they keep their dementia, as it were, at bay, that help them to stay functioning well. So losing those activities that they go out to and the support networks that they have has been very challenging. And of course, we're talking about a largely older group. And while some of those people are able to access the online resources that

have been developed so effectively that doesn't apply to everyone and we find in our group of people with dementia that we're following over time that's over 1,500 people that we've recruited from areas all over England Scotland and Wales many of them don't access the internet. Perhaps as many as four out of five are not regular internet users and many of them don't have a smartphone. There is this astonishing assumption, isn't there, that everybody has access to the internet.

Everyone I know has got a smartphone. That's in speech marks, by the way. It isn't true. As you say, a real significant chunk of the population are totally locked out of this world. Philly, good morning to you from Innovations in Dementia. Now, I know that you're all about giving a voice to people living with it, and indeed the people they live with and the people that care for them. We're just going to play a short clip from a video that features a friend of this programme, Wendy Mitchell. Good

morning to you, Wendy. I hope you're listening this morning. I think you said you would be, so I hope you're right there. And also Gail Gregory. Now, they're describing what they would like from a volunteer who perhaps is driving them to an appointment of some kind. Here they are. If they know the person lives alone, you know, for them to look look and check have we locked the door you know have have we got something with us you know a bag or now I always travel in the front of the car because I'm more comfortable always travel in the back because I don't like to be in close proximity of people it's that individual bit we need to get across. Not to chatter too much. So it's important to ask people whether they like to talk or whether they like it to be

quiet because some people talk very fast. And if the radio is on, don't talk. One or the other other not everything. When I'm traveling in a car I don't know if anybody else is the same but because perception sometimes is if there's something near to me so if I'm going down a road and we pass something like I don't, a hedgerow or something like that, it seems to close in on me, so I'll move to one side. So would it be useful just to make people aware to travel slowly? It might be during the time that you're traveling,

if the person that's taking you to wherever you're going could just say, we're nearly there, you to wherever you're going could just say we're nearly there, you know, we're five minutes away. Because we do get a little panicky to whether we're going in the right direction. Then we'll chit chat and keep us informed on this journey. Just to add something, if they're taking us somewhere, make sure we get to wherever we're going. You know, how are we getting back? Are they going to wait for us? That's Wendy Mitchell and Gail Gregory. And what that tells us, Philly, amongst other things, is that people with dementia are like the rest of us. They're singular. They've got their own likes and dislikes.

They're not just some amorphous blob. Yes. Good morning, Jane. And I think that's the key message that comes through these resources that we've produced with Wendy, with Gail, and also with Ron Coleman, who wasn't on that clip. What they're all saying is, if you can, as a volunteer or a supporter, try and get to know us, get to know us as individuals drop any preconceptions you might have as Gail said

we're just like anybody else and make a connection make a relationship with us and then you as a volunteer will enjoy that contact and we as people living with dementia will enjoy it as well I just want to bring the listeners in

Jane on Twitter says I'm really glad you're talking about this. My mum is 81. She's in lockdown at home with my dad, who is 92 and has dementia. He doesn't understand what's going on. She's finding life really hard. I'm not allowed near them to help. I don't know where we'd be without the carer.

I just want to put that point to you, Linda. Is it crystal clear, actually, what adult children can or should do to help their parents in situations like this? Yes, I feel this is an area where the guidance hasn't been clear. And I think that throughout all of this, while we've rightly heard a lot about the situation of people with dementia in care homes, there hasn't been much consideration given to the situation of people with dementia living in the community who do rely often on support from family members who might be living elsewhere. And I think it is difficult. We were told that during the lockdown that it was an acceptable reason to be out and about if we were providing care for a vulnerable person. But there has been a lack of clarity about this. And I think there is still some lack of clarity.

And I must say, I really feel for family members in this position. It's such a worry to feel that your parent may not be safe, may not understand the restrictions, might put themselves inadvertently at risk. So I think this is an area where we could benefit now perhaps from some very clear guidance. In households, Philly, what would you advise people to do if perhaps they can pop to their parents, not stay long, not hug them, not get close to them?

Could they leave notes on doors, on fridges, just as a reminder of the current situation, hand washing? What would you advise? Yes, again, it has to be very personal, doesn't it, to that situation. But Linda's pointed out that a lot of people can't use technology. If they can, of course, conversations on Zoom or Skype or even FaceTime can be really helpful and can really cheer people up. But if they can't, some people are going back to the old ways of sending a postcard or a photo every day to arrive in the post. Or phoning up, obviously, is very important.

Sending little parcels as well, maybe of somebody's favourite thing, like a bar of chocolate. I've been doing that for my mum, who's not living with dementia, but she's a bit, she's on her own. So it's not just about the instructions and the guidance. It's about keeping people as happy and relaxed as they can be. Yes, happy and relaxed, but at a time of enormous stress. We can't get away from the fact that to be a carer right now, particularly when you're older, it's about the toughest thing of all, isn't it? It's very tough. Go on, Philly. Yeah, okay. Of course, it's very tough. And of course, almost everyone who's living with dementia

has found this a very confusing and disorientating and probably pretty depressing time. But we also know that many are finding ways to get through. And if people have been living with dementia for any length of time, they've probably learned to be very adaptable. So some of the tips that we're receiving from them through our dementia diaries, the audio diaries, are actually really inspirational. Yes, and well, tell me about them. What have you learnt from what people have

actually said in those diaries? So we've actually received over 100 audio diaries from people living with dementia since the lockdown, which is quite amazing. And they're all on the Dementia Diaries website. I'll just pick out a few of the examples, which I think are really helpful. First of all, we heard from Agnes Houston, who lives up in Coatbridge in Scotland. And she, at the start of the lockdown, she was very panicky. She saw the situation in terms of being locked in and she felt like she was in prison. But with the help of her daughter Donna, Agnes was able to actually change the words that were going around in her head to think about keeping safe. And what she said on the diary was, and I quote her,

so I'm indoors and I see myself as sheltering from the storm. And while I'm sheltering, I'm gathering information about myself and I'm learning new skills. So that's one example of actually just trying to reframe the situation for yourself. And Linda, what advice do you have for carers obviously we should say there are links on the woman's our website right now helplines and so on bbc.co.uk forward slash woman's hour but on a day-to-day basis what can you say to to help them well um i think first all, carers need their own support. I mean, many carers obviously are very devoted to the caring role and want to do the best for the person with dementia, but they must also think about their own well-being because, of course, if the carer is

doing well, that will have a knock-on effect for the person with dementia. And if the carer is struggling, that will equally affect the person with dementia. So the carer is struggling that will equally affect the person with dementia so by supporting carers we improve the quality of life for both so I think one of the challenges at this time has been for carers to get a break because often some of the things that they would have been able to do or the person with dementia would have been able to do are not available so I think for carers it might be that if they can't do those normal things they need to perhaps have other ways of reaching out or reaching out to get some support or having even just have a little bit of time to themselves in one way or another. Obviously there are things like telephone friendship services that they could join that would help and if they can go online

they can look at various groups and discussion forums and so on. Do you know whether any of the groups that would have been operating in normal times are able to ring the people who might have attended the groups or the people who are carers for those people during the course of lockdown? Yes, I believe that's happening in many cases. I know that some of the support

workers who run these groups i know locally here in in exeter our huk colleagues um who run groups people with dementia have been doing that but of course it is a challenge for um especially for voluntary sector organizations as many staff have been furloughed of course finances are difficult but i know that um that workers are trying to do that wherever they can because we know how important that personal contact is and just that sense that somebody out there is listening and it's a chance to let

off steam and regroup and return to all the challenges of daily life. Thank you very much. That's Dr Linda Clare who is Professor of Clinical Psychology Aging and Dementia at Exeter Medical School and you also heard too from Philly Hare co-director of the organisation Innovations in Dementia. This on Twitter from Judith carers and those

with dementia in the Bradford area are really missing going to the support group the Memory Tree but volunteers are organizing online quizzes and regular check-in calls and getting letters out there etc but it is lonely i think says judith well isn't it fantastic that the volunteers are still doing that an email from hillary who says my mother has dementia and my father really struggles with this they live in new zealand i was due to visit them but this has now been cancelled. All their support systems have been suspended during lockdown, but things are starting to get back up and running again there. However, I'm not clear when daycare will be available again. I did do some drawing with

my mum, which really helped, and it has distracted her from the hallucinations that she has. This from Olivia. My mother has a full time living carer and her language has become much more limited during lockdown. But FaceTime, for example, just doesn't work well for her. But I have written a couple of songs to well-known tunes and she likes to sing along to them every day. And the carer has written out the words for her. Olivia, thank you very much for that. And keep your comments and your experiences coming at BBC Women's Hour on Twitter. I'm conscious, of course, that for many carers, that wouldn't be possible right now, precisely because you are a carer. But perhaps you might have time to email the programme at some point today. You can do that via our website. Now let's hear about the

American journalist and campaigner Ida B. Wells, who's been posthumously honoured with a Pulitzer Prize special citation for her outstanding and courageous reporting on the horrific violence against African-Americans during the era of lynching. Professor Paula J. Giddings wrote a biography of Ida B. Wells. It's called Ida, A Sword Among Lions. And Paula was prepared to get up in the very early hours of her American morning because she said she would do anything to tell the world more about Ida. She was born in Holly Springs, Mississippi in 1862. She was the oldest of five siblings and had really a decent decent childhood and her parents had been enslaved.

But after Reconstruction, her father, who was a talented carpenter, and her mother, who was a talented cook, really adjusted to freedom quite well. Her father had his own carpentry shop and the family, you know, got education, went to school. Education was paramount. But all of this came to an abrupt halt in 1878 when a yellow fever epidemic swept the Mississippi Valley. And both of Ida Wells' parents died and succumbed to yellow fever within 24 hours of one another, leaving her at the age of 16 as the head of the household and who needed to support her siblings. And how did she do that?

Well, she asked friends in the community to get her a job teaching at 16, and she lied about her age. But that's quite a leap to make between working as a teacher when she was far too young to do so and becoming a journalist. So what happened to make that possible? About 1880 or so, she is invited to come to Memphis, Tennessee. She's an editor of a journal that's published by teachers. So she's already, she knows that she's a pretty talented writer.

But then in 1883, her career really begins, and her activist career as well as the beginning of her journalistic career, begins when she refuses to leave a first class car, first class ladies car, on the Chesapeake and Ohio Railway. And she is actually, in the end, physically extricated from her seat by a conductor, but then leaves the train in a huff before she's actually thrown out. But what Wells will do, and this is typical of her personality, she immediately contacts a lawyer and decides to sue the railway. She actually wins the suit in the lower court. She'll lose later in the Tennessee Supreme Court, but in 1884, she actually wins the suit and becomes kind of a cause celebre in her community as a result of it, and is asked to write about the experience for a Black newspaper in Memphis, for a Black church paper in Memphis, Tennessee. And this is really the beginning of her journalistic career. She loves it, writing. As you can imagine from the trauma she's experienced, she's kind of a lonely

person. And she is in some ways a kind of an angry person that she knows that she has to sort of control and channel a lot of her emotions. And she's able to do this through journalism. As she says, you know, in journalism, I found the real me. So she's quite committed to the craft. And Wells is one of the few women who writes both political articles, as well as kind of the domestic women's column kind of article. She writes both. But she's approached by two men to be the editor of their newspaper. And she says, yes, I will, but I must have a third ownership to do it. And she buys a third ownership of the paper and becomes the editor of the Memphis Free Speech, which is really a good newspaper and a very militant one.

You say militant. How did that manifest itself? She believed in protests. She believed in revealing inequities in the society at a time. And this is a difficult period for African-Americans. This is talking about the late 19th century when there's much more pressure on African-Americans where violence is really emergent. I mean, there are two schools

of thought in this difficult period. One is sort of for African Americans just sort of keep their heads down to, you know, accumulate wealth, be good citizens, certainly to be nonviolent, not to protest, but to sort of just get along. And there's another school of radicals of protest. And Wells belongs to the second school. And she endorses this idea of the retaliation of Blacks in Georgetown, Kentucky. As a result of the lynching, African-Americans in the city almost burned down the entire town of Georgetown in retaliation. And she is for this and gets in some trouble.

The paper gets in some trouble. There's so much to admire about this woman, not least the fact that she was explicit in her language and in her writing. She avoided euphemisms, didn't she? Absolutely. And, you know, we are in the, this is really the Victorian period when you think about it. And there's especially women weren't to use certain kinds of language among other things. And for example, even the word rape. I mean, people didn't use the word rape.

Ida Wells did because she believed that you just had to be explicit in that way. So her language in and of itself is radical. She is a name we ought to know. She was Rosa Parks over 50 years before Rosa Parks. Why don't people know more about her? It's a good question. I had to ask myself that as well in writing my book, my biography of her, because she was really concluded was that we understand why her enemies and why racists and why others would want to ignore her or suppress her name. But she was also so confrontational to progressives and people who otherwise would be her allies. When she believed that they weren't doing what they should do for the race, she would call them out publicly. You know, she was that type of person.

Yeah. OK. So she was very singular. But then she'd had to be. She couldn't be any other way. But those people also suppressed her name and also didn't publicly recognize her. And so I think the result of that kind of double-edged problem is one reason why we don't know very much about her. And she's a difficult person. I mean, who wants to talk about this confrontation with lynching? And she talked about lynching not only as racial violence, but also as sexual predation. I did happen to see some footage from President Trump's press conference. Well, yesterday, I'm speaking on

Tuesday. I'm thinking, Ida B. Wells at a President Trump press conference, how do you think that would have gone? Well, what a delicious image you just provided. She would press him. You know, she actually went to the White House several times and was the lead of a delegation of representatives, including political representatives to William McKinley when there was a lynching of a postmaster that she felt that the federal government should intervene with and told McKinley what he needed to do. She also went to the White House to talk to Woodrow Wilson, who was one of the most racist presidents the U.S. has ever had, and who resegregates the civil service, among other things. She made sure that lynching, and it was, lynching was on the agenda of certainly of all the

Republican nominees and candidates for president. So she knew what it was to stand up of truth to power and had no reluctance to do so. Absolutely fascinating. Professor Paula J. Giddings talking about the life and times of the phenomenal Ida B. Wells. She's one of those difficult women you hear about, but obviously an exceptionally brave one. If you missed it, don't get it on BBC Sounds. That's the Jenny Murray edition of My Teenage Diary, which was actually on Radio 4 last night. Jenny in conversation with Rufus Hound, well worth hearing. Still available, of course, on BBC Sounds.

And on Friday, the whole programme is going to be about relations between the generations in the light of lockdown and the coronavirus and everything that everybody's living through and going through right now. Are you an adult child concerned about potentially your parents' somewhat cavalier attitude towards their own safety? Or are you somebody who is over 70 or in your 80s or older and you're utterly fed up being told what to do by the government, possibly by your children? I do hope my mother is listening right now. She better be. We want to hear all your perspectives. How are you

communicating and dealing with all this in the dynamic of your own family? Emails please via the website bbc.co.uk forward slash women's hour and we'll talk this through on Friday morning. Looking forward to that already. Please we do need your involvement for that one whatever stage of the generation game you're at right now. Now what are the challenges being faced by midwives around the world at the moment? We're going to hear in a moment from Annika Knudsen, who is the head of the Sexual and Reproductive Health Branch at UNFPA, that's the UN Population Fund. But first, earlier on today, we managed to get through

to a midwife, Tanya Akhtar. She's currently working in a health complex on a very remote island, Tazimuddin, which is off the coast of southern Bangladesh. Now, the latest figures we got hold of say that Bangladesh, which has a population well over 150 million, has about 17,000 confirmed cases of COVID-19 and about 250 deaths. So Tanya told me how her work has changed and how she's concerned that she is now seeing fewer pregnant women. During this COVID-19 pandemic outbreak, as a midwife, I am continuing my services to the mother and the newborn baby.

I provided all the midwifery services as they needed, like antenatal care, postnatal care, family planning services, health education, and also conducted normal vaginal delivery, along with many complicated cases. For this COVID-19 situation, the number of mothers I received is reduced. And for this situation, last month, I had conducted only 13 deliveries. So from what you're saying, women are really not feeling safe to come to the antenatal care and to see you afterwards. They'd rather stay at home? Yes. Actually, women and their family members are scared to come to the facility. And they think that if they come for antenatal check-up or they come for giving birth in the hospital,

could expose the coronavirus to them or their newborn baby. But we are always trying to provide counselling on how to maintain social distance, how to take care of their health, frequent hand washing. And also, I am always connected with the mother through mobile phone, but they need our support. That's reassuring to know then. So you are still able to give advice to people. But to sum up what's happening, you have a lockdown as we have a lockdown here. It means that people are are worried to come

to the clinics and to the antenatal facilities and also transport is also a problem of course and I guess that means that more women are giving birth at home is that a worry to you or are they safe to do so? No I think many problem arise if the pregnant mother not coming with us and take our services. Like if during the pregnancy, if they not come to us, how can we deviation the normal from the abnormal? And how can we detect the complications that may arise? Of course, but can I just say we're very grateful to you for talking to us and you've given us a real insight into the wonderful work you're doing. So thank you very much from all of us here. Take care. Okay, thank you.

That's just a brief insight into the work currently being done by Tanya Akhtar who is working as a midwife in a remote part of Bangladesh. So to Annika Knudsen, head of the Sexual and Reproductive Health Branch at the UNFPA. Annika, it's an impossible question, really. I'm asking for a sort of global overview from you in your home in Denmark. But if you could prioritise, what are you most concerned about at the moment in terms of maternal health and the way pregnant women are being treated?

Thank you. And it's actually Sweden. Sorry. I do apologize. Carry on. very difficult time. But what we are trying to do as our mission in UNFPA is, of course, to bring, to let all women and girls and young people receive the quality care, no matter where they live and who they are and what their needs are. And we try to do this also in the times of the pandemic. And the situation, I think, is really impacted by the uncertainty that's surrounding all of us, the uncertainty of what's really the situation, what the data are, how many people are affected. But the main risk that we see now is really that the services that have been built, and sometimes in very weak health systems, they are sort of being dismantled.

Midwives like Tanya are being moved to other services. There is not enough PPE, protective garments for them. There is not enough services for women. So what Tanya talked about in terms of women being afraid, that is also exaggerated by the fact that women quickly get to know when there is no one there to receive them at the clinic. And when the quality of the care that they want to receive is not good enough. So they will keep away for different reasons. We should say, of course, that we need to point out that midwives, sadly, have died in this country. In some of the more, we have an incredibly efficient and good national health service, but we have lost midwives working through the virus. So what comfort, if any, can we take from the knowledge that we, with all our advantages, are still having problems?

Yes, and that is, of course, the really key question here, because what we know is that in many places, midwives come last when it comes to getting the protective gear that they need. They are also not listened to, but they are the frontline workers. And that's why it's so important that we really let them come to the table, let them be heard to make sure that they actually have what they need. Now, midwife means with woman and midwives are women working with women for women. So they also are exposed to the same inequalities and structural discriminations that the women they care for are. And that's really important to remember that they are in that gendered sort of dynamics while they are providing care as women.

Can I just ask you, how much do we know for certain about how COVID affects pregnant women and pregnancy? So what we have seen, and of course, this is again, this is uncertainty of data. We have small populations that have been studied. But what we have seen is that women, pregnant women, has not shown an exaggerated risk more than what they risk in having the normal flu. However, in some late data, we have seen that it may be that there is an increased risk for a premature birth if you are infected with COVID. But still, I would like to stress these are few numbers and we still need to really have more certainty. We're still in the very early stages of all this, I know. But do you know anything about increased rates of caesarean section at the moment? You know, this is a problem that really is in the low income countries, a major problem before the pandemic that many health systems, even weaker health system resort to increased numbers of

C-sections. I don't have numbers, but I have anecdotal information of, you know, because they need to plan their health care in the health system, they schedule women for inductions. Women are scheduled for C-sections. And of course, this is not something that WHO or we promote. The natural physiology is always the better. Complications always arise as soon as more medical interventions are made. But I also wanted to say that in all of this, fear is a very strong force and it makes it hard to take in information and trust information for women. So we listen to these cases that are being talked about. And I would just like to say to all women listening to this who may be pregnant,

that we need to know more and we really need to make sure that your experience is still a happy and positive lifetime event. Of course, thank you very much. And our thoughts, obviously, with everybody who is pregnant at this time. Thank you very much, Annika Knudsen, head of the Sexual and Reproductive Health Branch at UNFPA, speaking from her home in Sweden. So my apologies for getting that wrong. And if you are pregnant right now, and if you still have a question that hasn't been answered, let us know.

And we will obviously go back to this over the coming weeks, because I think it's fair to say that it's not going away, is it, all this? We do know that from today fly fishing is possible fishing generally is possible in england let's talk to beaky alice taylor who is going to over the next three and a half minutes sell fly fishing to me beaky over to you what's the appeal good morning jane um what's the appeal uh so i mean fly fishing has got to be for a start the most perfect sport or hobby uh during this you know difficult time um and social distancing i mean you can't get

anything more perfect than fly fishing you know when i go fishing i barely see anyone let alone speak to anyone so you know there's nothing better where do you like to go so i live in hampshire and i'm really lucky that i have um you know the river test quite close by with the itching so it's you know all the 40 minute drive from me and i fish you know wherever i can now this is something you've done all your life is it honestly something that i could pick up now yes definitely so i caught my um first salmon i think at age seven because my father was um really into fishing and and kind of dragged me into i wasn't that interested i have to be honest age seven um so i've been doing it for you know a long time on and off um but anyone anyone can

get into fishing i think it's seen as a really exclusive sport and sort of quite male-dominated, but it doesn't have to be the case. I think, you know, I'd love to encourage more women to fish, more children to fish. You know, when you're fishing, you are usually surrounded in nature.

It's a lovely thing to do it's fantastic for um anxiety you know which is quite a hot topic at the moment i was going to ask you about that you can simply clear your mind of everything else can you and just let it be i have to say i i honestly think it is the pretty much the only thing I do where I have complete sort of emotional calm you know I mean I feel very very calm very stable it's very difficult to worry about anything or think about anything else when you're fishing you're just concentrating very much on you know casting the fly perfectly in front of the fish that you've been stalking. And you can't think about much else. Yes, stalking.

Do you keep the fish beaky or do they go back? Most of them go back. I do think, you know, catch and release is the way to go. But I occasionally keep a fish if I'm going to eat it or if somebody has asked, you know, possibly for a fish for supper, then I'll keep one. Generally, I release them. I have to ask you what your biggest catch has been.

My biggest catch, my biggest trout is 12 pounds on the test. And my biggest salmon is actually only 12 pounds. So same size as the trout. Right. So salmon and trout, both 12 pounds. They sound pretty, pretty big. You'd need a fair few chips to go with a £12 salmon, wouldn't you? Yeah, a fair few. That is Beaky Alish-Taylor, enthusiastic fly fisherwoman.

I once had, I think back towards the end of the 100 Years War, it was ages and ages ago now, a local radio breakfast show in which we had a weekly fishing update, which I always faintly resented, but I think it was actually and ages ago now, a local radio breakfast show in which we had a weekly fishing update, which I always faintly resented, but I think it was actually widely popular. I beg your pardon, Siobhan? Siobhan says she's the producer today. She used to do the car park news on local radio, Radio Oxford.

OK, right, well, we've got that out there. And if you were a fan of Siobhan's car park news on BBC Radio Oxford, there must be somebody out there who loved it, who isn't related to Siobhan's car park news on BBC Radio Oxford, there must be somebody out there who loved it, who isn't related to Siobhan, do let us know. Actually, don't let us know in a hurry. But what I remember particularly about the fishing update on BBC Hereford and Worcester was the baits and luncheon meat

was always very popular, from what I remember, on the River Lug, which I think a lot of people now more easily associate, unfortunately, with flooding. But back in the day, we didn't get as much flooding. Anyway, that was interesting to some, I dare say. Let's plough on with some other reaction to the programme today. Actually, we do have one email, no, more than one, I'm sure, but one has got through to me from Claire,

who says she took up fly fishing through the Fishing for Life charity which supports women recovering from breast cancer through free coaching. It was a very important part of my mental and physical recovery says Claire. An early start to drive to a beautiful reservoir building physical stamina through standing and casting and laughter and patience and then a tasty buffet lunch provided by volunteers who were almost all breast cancer survivors. Well, there you go. That sounds like a really interesting initiative.

Thanks for telling us about that, Claire. And carry on fishing. Now, obviously a lot of people wanted to talk about dementia today. So on Twitter, Arthur said, the main thing that we people living with dementia need is just to be shown a little bit of patience. We do find it difficult to cope with change. Kirsten also on Twitter, getting to know the individual is so important. I support my grandma with dementia. And though it was so hard at first, I have learned that she can live in some contentment with dementia for some time,

as long as she gets the right support. But I only learned this after doing my own research. And from David, I'm a full-time carer for my mum and her dementia has taken over my life. My social life, even before COVID, was basically just all about dementia groups and a couple of carers who called in. Just before the lockdown, my mum was in hospital. Then we were discharged with a very expensive and overbearing, that's David's term, care package. In a single week, David tells me, we had 20 different strangers calling in as carers, which just made a total nonsense of any idea of social distancing and isolation. The biggest issue I've had over the last couple of weeks is a basically bedridden dementia person didn't count as vulnerable on the official government list. So getting online

delivery slots was a nightmare. Now, I'm glad David mentioned this. This was something I should have mentioned. So I'm sorry I didn't because he he's absolutely right, incredibly. You don't count as vulnerable. David goes on to say, it may be good to have screen-based interactions, but many people with dementia already struggle to differentiate between the often challenging world of television and reality. So then to have genuine interactions with people on a screen just adds to the confusion. He goes on, we are just maintaining life with no real prospect of living. Can you please help move the dementia debate beyond memory problems and start talking about the constant progressive brain damage with all the problems of psychosis and incontinence, mobility issues and general physical decay.

But thank you for at least talking about dementia. David, thank you. Now, from another listener, we're not going to mention her name. I want to emphasise the difficulty in looking after a 93-year-old mother who, before lockdown, went to a daily dementia club, which, of course, had to close. Her routine is what's kept her going for the last five years. who before lockdown went to a daily dementia club, which of course had to close. Her routine is what's kept her going for the last five years, but now in the last seven weeks we've seen a deterioration. As a family, we've had to ignore the guidelines.

We share the care, staying over for a few days, bleaching and cleaning the house, and doing a weekly shop to make sure that food is available before we go home. I drive from Devon to Essex and my brother from Southampton. Ultimately, I believe we are helping to prevent the infection potential from one of the many people visiting her in a caring capacity, attempting to keep everyone safe by cleaning and disinfecting the house and undertaking chores whilst also being able to see her. Going against the guidelines feels bad, but other than long and repetitive phone calls, technology doesn't feature in my mother's life.

I see our visits as preferable to unknown volunteers who may equally be transmitting the virus. I don't think a one-size-solution fits all. I'm unsure if this is relevant, but this is how we are playing the situation. Well, rest assured that anonymous listener that is very relevant. And I think it's a brilliant illustration of how people like you, who are decent and caring are having to bend what you believe to be the rules in order to make sure that your mum is okay. And you will not be alone in doing exactly that. As I think we illustrated during the course of that conversation, the rules, guidelines, aren't clear, are they? So many people feel that they have to do something rather different. Another listener says, I've been listening to your programme this morning,

and I am in lockdown with dementia. I can't take long over this email as my husband will be coming and asking me what I'm doing and telling me that I've been a long time. I am 84 and of sound mind at present. My husband is 87. He's had dementia for the last five years and is gradually deteriorating. It is a daily battle. Yesterday, he peed on the landing on his slippers and then went to sleep with his coffee and spread that everywhere.

I was working in the kitchen and I discovered that he'd taken all the leads and plugs out of all our electrical devices and left them all over the floor. He didn't know why. I haven't been able to get the television to work again and that's the only thing he can manage although often he doesn't understand the programs. I do occasionally read to him and I think he enjoys that. He appears to understand the virus but maybe sometimes he doesn't. Each day he'll ask me to take him to the dentist or go shopping and each day I explain about the virus. He was an award-winning architect and a wonderful watercolourist. We'd just started Art Dementia during a course, but that's had to close down. He enjoyed joining

in with the other people in the same situation as himself, but wasn't able to do much other than daubs, but he really clearly enjoyed it. They have sent work to do at home, but he isn't interested. I cannot interest him in anything apart from photos and videos of our soon-to-be one-year-old great-grandson, and he'll look at him with a real smile on his face. People say they don't know what to do with their spare time, says this listener, while I get up at 6.30, ready for the wonderful carer who comes to shower and dress my husband, and because of the amount of washing he causes, I then spend most of the day washing and drying. I also cook three meals a day. That's actually an indulgence that I enjoy. I have the gardens to look after, all the running repairs, the DIY

and the admin. I'm no longer young of course and I miss my family support and that of my wonderful friends. I started the diary of an almost mad housewife some years ago, but I find it difficult now to do anything for myself. Can I just say to that listener, that is such a, you are a brilliant writer,

by the way, that's one thing. Don't give up the writing. So if you hear this, please don't pack it in because you have a real gift and we need to hear from people like you

at the moment. What can I say after that? That's just a, it's just an insight into your daily life. And you will not be alone right now. And thank you for telling us. Thank you for trusting us with that experience of yours. And to everybody who enjoyed hearing more about Ida B. Wells. Herbie says, I'm 62.

Jane, I'm a black man and I listen to Woman's Hour every day. I do know about Ida B. Wells. I came across her during my university years and I would definitely recommend her book, Ain't I a Woman? Please can you talk more about books by women of colour? We will try very hard to do exactly that. And Herbie, thank you for contacting the programme and thanks for being a part of Woman's Hour.

Jenny is here tomorrow and then I'm back on Friday with that programme we want you to take part in. It's all about how the generations are getting on with each other right now and I know my mum doesn't listen to the podcast so I can use this opportunity to say that it can be tough at the moment. My parents are 86. I sometimes have to

tell them things they don't want to hear and I've got to offer them instructions about how I think they best lead their life right now. It doesn't always go down well, and I will not be alone in that. So how are you getting on? And if you are, like my parents, are you sick of your adult children telling you what to do? We want to hear this whole range of experiences for Friday's programme.

So contact us via the website bbc.co.uk forward slash Woman's Hour. And Siobhan, the former star of that car park report on BBC Radio Oxford, has reminded me that I need to thank everybody who's come into the building today to help us do Woman's Hour. So thanks to Siobhan, to Tim, to Louise and to Lois, who've all been an important part of Woman's Hour today. I'm Sarah Treleaven, and for over a year, I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who's faking pregnancies. I started like warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake.

No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story. Settle in. Available now.