Woman's Hour - Impact of Cyclone Idai. Film director Carol Morley. Author Tomi Adeyemi. Losing your mum.

Episode Date: March 22, 2019

Last week Cyclone Idai swept through Mozambique, Malawi and Zimbabwe, leaving behind a trail of destruction, killing hundreds and affecting an estimated 2.6 million people. We hear from Sacha Myers, part of Save the Children’s Emergency Health Unit who's currently in Central Mozambique about the current situation there . Plus Daphne Lagrou, Sexual and Reproductive Health advisor for Médecins Sans Frontières tells us why there's a bigger impact on women and children when disasters like this strike.Author Tomi Adeyemi talks about the impact of her first novel Children Of Blood and Bone which was hailed as a landmark publication in the very white and very male world of fantasy fiction. Losing your mum is a very difficult experience. It's especially hard at this time of year when we’re bombarded with all the advertising and marketing ahead of Mother’s Day. Three women who attended a symposium called Motherless Daughters - which aims to get women to open up about their loss and the impact it's had on them - share their stories.Director Carol Morley on her new film ‘Out of Blue’ – a crime thriller adapted from Martin Amis’s novel Night Train. What drew her to this neo-noir mystery ? and how have her own experiences influenced her directing? . Presenter Jane Garvey Producer Beverley PurcellGuest: Carol Morley Guest: Tomi Adeyemi Guest: Sacha Myers Guest: Daphne Lagrou Reporter: Georgina Hewes

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BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hi, this is Jane Garvey and this is the Woman's Hour podcast from Friday the 22nd of March 2019. Today, film director Carol Morley on her latest film Out of Blue, which is intriguing, Out of Blue. Something a bit different. So Carol Morley with us today. You can also hear from the young writer. She's going to be something a bit different. So Carol Morley with us today. You can also hear

from the young writer, she's going to be such a big name, Tomi Adeyemi, who's written one of those books set in an alternative universe, but about some really important real world topics like racism, police brutality and colourism. So you can hear from Tomi on the programme today. And also a conversation with women who have lost their mums, whose mums died at various points in their life and who are having, I think it's quite common actually to have a tough time around this time of year when there's so much focus on Mothering Sunday or Mother's Day as people tend to call it these days. So that's the lineup on the podcast today. But we start with a conversation about Cyclone Idai,

which swept through Malawi, Zimbabwe and Mozambique around this time last week, leaving behind a trail of destruction, killing hundreds of people and affecting over two and a half million people. I talked to the BBC's Africa editor, Fergal Keane, who's in Mozambique. I'm in the city of Beira, which bore the brunt of the cyclone when it struck exactly a week ago. And even though this is the centre of the major aid effort, you can still, walking around the streets here,

just see people who are destitute, who need food, who need medical aid, hundreds gathered into whatever buildings still have roofs on them. And one of the striking things when we first arrived was just to drive around and see building after building where the wind had just ripped off corrugated roofs. Very flimsy buildings in many cases and lots of families clustering around trying to find whatever shelter they can. How much help has got through? You know, when I look at the scale of the need here, I would have to say still very little. What's also been striking to me is just how much of the aid response has depended on what you would call the big countries of the global south.

In other words, you have the Indian Navy, which was on exercise in Mauritius. They've been carrying the major share of the evacuation work from remote villages along the flooded river plain. And also neighbouring South Africa, they brought military helicopters in straight away. They've been involved in some very daring rescues of people from treetops wherever possible. and Mozambican NGOs themselves. One of the big things that's happened in Africa over the last 20, 25 years has been the rise of civil society. And you really see those people at work. I saw them at the port of Bari yesterday, helping large crowds of women and children from the boats as they arrived,

people who'd been rescued from the interior. Now, the death toll officially is still in the hundreds, but do you think that is actually completely inaccurate? Well, I would say at the very least, it's an underestimate. One of the problems, of course, is that you've got a vast floodplain, you know, an area which has been described as being the size of Luxembourg, where you have a small number of helicopters crisscrossing, trying to find people. I suspect as the floodwaters recede,

and if we keep getting the kind of dry weather that we've seen today and that I saw yesterday, you will get a much clearer idea of how many people have died. But I would point out in these situations, it can take time to get a clear picture. And what would you say about the plight of women and children? One assumes that in situations like this, they are particularly vulnerable. They're extremely vulnerable.

You know, just sort of anecdotal evidence from myself. We went upriver with the Indian Navy yesterday to the town of Boozy. And as we pulled into the shore, there was a jetty that people had crowded onto several hundred. The vast majority were women and children. I mean, one of the striking images for me is that this elderly woman,

she was, I suspect, in her mid-70s, pleading, and a young man with her, helping her, pleading to be allowed onto the boat. It looked for a few moments as if she wouldn't make it, but the Indians crowded her on to an already overcrowded boat

to get her out. At the quayside in Bera, a lot of older women, I think grandmothers with young children, who had out. At the quayside in Beira, a lot of older women, I think grandmothers with young children who had come, perhaps the parents have stayed behind to try and, you know, hold on to whatever belongings they have in the villages. And it does fall disproportionately, certainly in terms of my experience of, you know, large disasters like this. The effort of finding food, of finding medical care care of finding shelter very much

falls on women we saw that in the Amiral Cabral primary school where there were about 600 people and a woman called Joanna told me they'd been given three sacks of rice for that that large group of people and the women were trying to share that out and make sure that everybody got a little piece. It does seem that because, horrifically, because of the timing of the cyclone, coinciding with the horrendous terrorist attack in New Zealand and certainly in Britain, so many people preoccupied with Brexit, that this hasn't got the attention it deserves. No, it's been one of those unusual ones for me. I mean, we arrived here on Tuesday. My colleagues from BBC Africa have been reporting this from the moment that the story broke. But the other major here. But other big organisations didn't get here until yesterday. And that's quite striking. Now, part of that has to do with preoccupation with what happened in Christchurch, that dreadful attack, also what's happening in Britain with Brexit.

But I also wonder, is there an element, and I just pose this as a question, is there an element of people globally looking at Africa and thinking, this is just another disaster that hits Africa? And of course, I think in the longer term, when you look at the issues surrounding this, particularly questions of the impact of climate, this isn't just about Africa. It's a terrible tragedy

for the people of Mozambique, but it has much broader implications. Thought-provoking from the BBC's Africa editor, Fergal Keane, who was talking to me earlier, from Mozambique. Let's go to Brussels now. We can talk to Daphne Lagroux, who's sexual and reproductive health advisor for the charity Maison Sans Frontières. Daphne, really striking to listen to Fergal there. particularly struck by that image of the elderly lady just pleading to be let on that boat and the Indian Navy doing its best to rescue as many people as possible.

What do we know about the plight of the elderly in situations like this? OK, good morning to you. So, yes, that image, I can see it as well. And in relation to elderly, but also in relation to children, we know as a fact from these kind of disasters that women are more at risk to die during these situations. And that with the following crisis

that will come on that one is that 70% of those in need will be women and children. And this can be related like for elderly people or for children like here with the floods, the difficulties of not being able to swim, not being able to get to a safe place. So we know that related to this, they are even more at risk than others.

Also, the idea that grandmothers would be charged with the not inconsiderable task of getting the children out and leaving the parents behind to hopefully protect what possessions people have. Is that common? Yes, this can be a common thing that people who are maybe seen as stronger can still try to get a grasp on what they can have. As they know as well, they must realize already at this moment

that this is not something that is going to be solved by tomorrow and so we see that in these situations family get disrupted and that people can even can can lose one another children can lose their parents parents will lose their children and so on so that comes then that when we come into facilities where there is shelter provided that you have that high increase of women and children being together. I've also read some very harrowing accounts actually of people climbing up trees and then either falling asleep because they are obviously shattered or simply not having the strength to cling on. And again, women and children are particularly vulnerable, aren't they? Yes, they are. And we know as well from today, from our teams in the field,

and like the reporter was saying on, that there's still a big need to rescue more people, that there's still people who are not yet into a safe place. And as we see the situation now, that we know that there's a big need for shelter, for clean water, for food and an immediate medical response. On top of that, actually, we know that children and women are more vulnerable due to the absence or the reduced capacity of healthcare facilities. We know from what we had reports that most of the healthcare facilities, for instance, in Beira, are maybe completely destroyed or at least partly destroyed.

And this is equally so for the hospital, who is still giving medical care, but who had to reorganise their facilities. What should charities do in these situations to protect women and children in the first weeks and months after incidents like this? Or actually, in practical terms, because it's not always so obvious in our face, but it's, for instance, also the number of women who are pregnant at any given moment in time. And these women will need a continuation of their care during their pregnancy, but they will also need a safe place for deliver. If they don't have a facility to deliver in, they might deliver in a situation which is unhygienic and puts them at risk, and then there's not the capacity to respond. We know that 15% of all pregnancies will have to deal with a life-threatening complication. So there's really a call needed to put in place to re-establish the capacity of the hospital to provide emergency obstetric and neonatal care.

Also for these newborns there might be extra care needed and so in this situation we knew that also the operating theatre of the hospital was affected. So all efforts have been put already in place, the maternity ward was already moved on but they will need more support to make the surgical capacity back in the city as for the first days people had to be referred. But for now, the days to come, it needs to be happening within the city as well. Thank you very much for talking to us.

We really appreciate it. That's Daphne Lagroux, who is from the organisation Médecins Sans Frontières. She was in Brussels. And we should say there is a British Disasters Emergency Committee appeal for the victims of this cyclone. You can donate by visiting the DEC website. That's the DEC website if you'd like to give to that emergency appeal.

And as Fergal said in that conversation earlier, this is something that really should concern us all. Carol Morley is here, the film director. Good morning to you, Carol. Hello. The new film is Out of Blue. director. Good morning to you, Carol. Hello. The new film is Out of Blue. It's released today, that's right, isn't it? No.

Next week. Next week, 29th of March. I'm absolutely on it. That's good, that's okay. Now, well, it's a crime thriller-ish. It's adapted from a novel by Martin Amis called Night Train. Had you read Night Train? No, I hadn't read it.

And I came to read it to look to making it into a film and I would call it a radical adaptation of a Martin Amis book and I felt doing it like I was rescuing the characters from the pages of the book. So it's kind of my conversation with Martin Amis as well at the same time. Does he know?

Well, obviously he's given rights to the film but we've never met. And will you? Well, he he's given rights to the film, but we've never met. And will you? Well, he's seeing the film next week, so we'll see. Let us know. Update us on that. OK, it's all about a female detective. The name is Mike Houlihan, and she's played by Patricia Clarkson. She's investigating the murder of a leading astrophysicist.

In this clip, Detective Mike Houlihan and the homicide team have found the body of the astrophysicist. In this clip, Detective Mike Houlihan and the homicide team have found the body of the astrophysicist, Jennifer Rockwell. One of the Rockwells? Yes, the donor of Councilman Colonel Tom Rockwell. War hero, Rockwell electrics. She held an open to all lecture last night. We got a list of attendees, crime scene. Waiting for instruction. It's a signature of the.38 caliber killer. You weren't even born yet, Silvero. Usually a sock's left in your mouth. Keep it from talking.

What you reckon, Hooli? Mike? What's up? She never gets affected. No, it's... Spurger last night's not sitting right. The observatory manager call it in? Yes. Dr. Ian Strammey.

He's waiting in his office downstairs. English dude. Looks like he's been in a fight. Attacked her. She fought back? Open roof. So Wayne could drench evidence. Tony, get talking.

That's Detective Mike Houlihan and there's much that's unusual about this film but I have to say that the idea of a slightly unreliable detective with a somewhat troubled background, that's not unusual, is it? No, I think it begins in a very familiar place.

Yeah, well, you feel you're familiar. Yeah. And then you're taken somewhere else. Exactly. So I wanted people to feel grounded. And the experience as we begin is Mike's. So Mike is a 59-year-old woman. She's seen it all.

Seen it all. So she's been there, done it. And then her world begins to destabilise, as ours does, with her. So what's familiar becomes unfamiliar because she's entering territory that she hasn't been there before. So it's really throwing light into her. So she's a detective that in the end begins to detect herself and that's where it departs from a traditional mystery where you're looking at all the characters and a death and a dead woman and all that it really does depart from that. The truth is we don't know who or what to

trust. No it is an unreliable narrator but I think because she's mistrusting her own judgments for the first time ever and that's what I find fascinating about making films and putting female characters at the front of them, because I think we've been so mistrusted historically that for Mike herself to do that to herself is taking the control back in a way. So it's really playing with that. It can be so painstaking, just getting a film together getting the money together is it still harder to do all that when your central character

is a middle-aged woman yes i mean my eyes were open because i think every actor has a value and you realize that the older you a woman has less value in terms of financing a film an older woman it's as simple as that. It's a simple economics. And that's when you become really frustrated because you realise it's simple economics, which you can't control because it's sort of invisible. Those sort of things are invisible. But I certainly never wanted to make my central character younger.

I was always going to have her as an older character. People do say if she was younger, you'd find it easier to finance. But no, because it's so brilliant to have an older woman leading a role, having that agency. And it's so enjoyable and so important. Do people actually, the finance people, do they actually expect you to cast someone you think is totally unsuitable and possibly not as good, but at least would bring in the dollar? Well, we only have to look at many films to know that's true. Yeah, that's true. I have seen some films. Because you see a lot of films and you feel they're miscast

and it's a bit wrong and they're too young and how have they had these experiences? So I think that is visible, really. So the invisible and what we, you know, as filmmakers, we're continually contending with is people that aren't in the front in in view that make decisions that alter what we see and what we're able to see yeah um a lot of people listening will have seen and enjoyed isn't quite the right word but that incredible film at dreams of a life now just for anybody who isn't aware of it this is about a woman called joyce vincent just explain

exactly what her story was. Well, I came across Joyce's story in The Sun and they got her age wrong and there was no photograph. But she was 38, died in her flat in London and wasn't discovered for three years. And she was so invisible. I had to find out about her. And you did. Yeah, I did. I spent five years piecing together her life.

It was a very tough film to finance. The question along the way was who would want to see this film? When the film came out, everybody wanted to see it. It was a story for our times. And for me, the characters I like to make films about, like Mike Houlihan in Out of Blue, are kind of marginalised and on the edge, but they're very important to tell stories about so Joyce Vincent was somebody that we needed to hear about she said something about her life she wasn't what we expected either for somebody to be left for three years it was important to to tell that story but I think when you said enjoyed I'm glad people enjoyed um Dreams of a Life and Enjoy My Films because I don't want to make grim films I want to look at the dark side of life, but throw light on them. So you come away feeling invigorated. And I think people were quite surprised with Dreams of a Life or AdBlue that they come away feeling upbeat when it's actually gone into very dark material. Dreams of a Life, it was that, I don't know why in particular, but I know I'm not the first person to have mentioned this. It's the fact that the telly was still on in her flat.

Yeah, and I found out that it was on BBC. So I was sort of thinking of all these programmes going over her dead body. And TV represents modernity. And she lived above a shopping centre. It was all these sort of things about the modern age. And yet in the modern age, we left her. We all left her. We were all responsible for her being there for three years.

Is it true that a lot of your films feature elements of missing, missing people, missing emotions? Is that fair? Yeah, I think absence fascinates me. What we don't know fascinates me. And I think I am in my filmmaking a bit of a detective which is probably why I wanted to make a film about a detective now so I love detective work I love trying to figure out why somebody isn't in in view isn't visible is it and I think the history of women in art cinema whatever literature there's a lot of invisibility. So I'm particularly interested in girlhood and womanhood

and bringing that to the fore and creating complex characters, not just strong women, because I hate all that women have to be a role model. It's like bringing women to the fore and really exploring the story. So people on the edge and in the margins, I think, are far more interesting to me because their stories don't get told. You haven't spared yourself either, have you?

Because the alcohol years, which I know you did make some years ago, was really, I mean, you couldn't have been more honest about your ramshackle adolescence and early 20s. I mean, just in case, again, if people listening are not completely aware of that, that was pretty brutal. Yeah, it's now available on the BFI player so people can see it, which is brilliant. It still exists, you know, for people to see. But it was looking at girlhood, really.

I was 16 when I looked, you know, the time I look back at it looked at promiscuity. It was quite transgressive, I suppose. And it looked at things that people disapprove of that aren't respectable. But it looked at it through the lens of my own life so I felt that I could do that the people involved in the film which were a lot of men that were in it in fact one guy said I thought if you were going to finish the film I wouldn't have been in it but but it's actually very revealing about male attitudes to towards young female sexuality and towards women. That's what amazes me. Why did they agree to be in it at all?

Because I think that they knew I would never put them in a position of taking their voice away. I was letting them speak. So it wasn't like, this is how I'm going to edit you or put you in this film. So I think they felt very free. And I did let them express their opinion and then put them in. I didn't alter their opinion.

So it is what they thought. They didn't think what they were saying was in any way wrong or in any way strange or in any way misogynist. So it was like, here you are. Yeah, well, here they certainly were. And there were you, of course. But you're in a different place now and a different person. Well, only in the essence that I am constructing things from my life and from other people's lives.

So it's a beautiful life to have as a filmmaker. It's a struggle because you're trying to raise the money. But I can put ideas out there and construct other people's lives in my own life, and it's very powerful. That's why more women, we have to have more women in film. They're out there. We just need to bring them in and make sure that different stories

are told by different people. But that's my privilege now. I get to make films. Thank you very much indeed for talking to us. Really appreciate it. That's Carol Morley, film director, Out of Blue, released in cinemas next week, 29th of March. And as I say, it starts one way and takes you somewhere else.

It's the best thing I think I can say about Out of Blue. Thanks, Carol. Thank you. Now, we would like to hear from you if you are an environmental activist or you've got maybe generations of activists in your family. We're going to be looking at that role that women have played in environmental activism across the last 50 years. So we'd love to hear from you now.

You can contact us via our website, bbc.co.uk slash womanshour, or on Twitter, of course, at BBC Women's Hour. Now, if your mother has died this time of year, there's no doubt about it, it really must be especially difficult, because everywhere you look, there is advertising and marketing for Mothering Sunday, which is next Sunday. Georgina Hughes went to an event called Motherless Daughters, which brought together women from around the country whose mothers had died at various ages. The aim really was to open a dialogue about the enduring effects of this kind of loss. My name's Mithra, I'm 49 years old and I lost my mum when I was 12.

So just tell me a little bit about you and your mum and what happened. I was aware that she was sick. I was aware that there had been an operation, but the way that it was presented to me was that whatever the issue was had been dealt with, it's over, forget about it. We were also living in the Middle East and it was the time of the Iranian Revolution and we literally packed up and left overnight without saying goodbye to anyone and came to England as political refugees.

My mum was in and out of hospital. I would hear different terms. I'd hear that she had arthritis, other problems, never cancer. That was never mentioned. And one night my dad came home and said, she's gone. And I said, gone where? Because the last time I saw her, she said she'd be out for my birthday. And there was a sense of non-acceptance.

How do you mean? Just numb. You felt numb? Yeah, no tears. What did your dad say to you when you asked him, what do you mean she's gone? I said, gone where? And he said, to heaven. And I ran out of the house and I ran just into the night. And I don't actually remember what happened after that. He must have come and got me. And the next day I went to school and the teacher came and called me out of the classroom and another teacher went in and obviously told the classroom what had happened and I think the kids quite

naturally were surprised you know that I seemed so calm there was no tears and actually a group of girls sort of followed me into the toilets and the ringleader I remember it was so vividly she She said, you don't seem very upset. Did you not love your mum? And I just didn't have an answer for her. I didn't know why I wasn't upset. And it took me a long time. It took me about five years before I actually broke down and cried. And what were the five years like before you broke down and cried?

How were you in that period? Angry, rebellious just no respect for any authority figure bunking off school clubbing at 14 just angry I was an only child I don't think he knew what to do with me and just hoped that I would eventually settle down. And I think that I did eventually. And, you know, I got married. I had my own children. And I feel that that's when I truly mourned her properly. I just wanted her physically. You know, every night I would go to bed and I had terrible postnatal depression. I'd cry. And, you know, my husband would say, but you've got us, you've got your own family. And other people would say, she's always with you,

but I physically wanted her. And I think it's a very animal thing when you want your mum, you miss the way she smells, you want to hold her, you want to hold her hands. And actually it was through reading books, reading a lot of books, that I came out of that. So I never spoke about it to anyone. I never asked for help. But I read a lot of books. So you said when you didn't cry for five years, and then you did break down. Do you remember what it was that broke the dam,

as it were? Yes, I was in a shopping centre. And there was a mother and daughter. And they were just shopping. And they were having fun. I watched them and I just completely broke down and at that moment I decided this is now the time to go and find this grave and acknowledge it and accept it. And that was the first time you went to her grave? Yeah, five years after she died. and what sort of impact does it have do you think on you when it came to having your own children making that decision was there ever any doubt and also reaching the age that your mother was yes um with my children I would journal everything with the hospital they were born in you know when they said their first word what date they started walking what their first solids were.

And it was actually when I read Hope's book that I realised why I was doing that because I never expected to live past the age my mother was. My mother died, which was 40. I remember having the mammogram at that age and not quite believing that I was okay. So was there always an expectation that you would die? Yeah, I never imagined I'd live past the age my mother was when she died. Never expected it.

And what about for other women who might listen to this? What's helped you the most when it's coming to terms? Just knowing that grief isn't a straight line, that you have good days, you have bad days. You know, there are mother's days where I'm absolutely fine. There are mother's days when I can't get out of bed. And, you know, you grieve your own way. There is no right way.

It's over 30 years now and I'm still grieving. My name's Donna, I'm 34. I'm here today because I want to get a better understanding of the ongoing grief. My mum died when I was 10. It's an impact that continues, you know, through your life. Today is me trying to help navigate now and the future and make sense of everything. She died of lung cancer and from memory I think she was sick with it for a couple of years. The difficult part for me was following her death. Both my parents had quite traditional gender roles. I think it was a difficult transition for my dad to then become the primary caregiver and that was also a difficult adjustment for myself and my brothers. You know I think I sort of took on a lot of that responsibility myself of feeling like I was then responsible for

being the person that was strong for everybody else, holding that emotion for everybody else. I sort of thought that was my role. At 10 years old? At 10, yeah. You said you were one of the only daughter but how many brothers did you have? I have two brothers. One At 10 years old? At 10, yeah. You said you were the only daughter, but how many brothers did you have? I have two brothers. One was 10 years older than me, but he wasn't living at home when mum died. And my younger brother is just 22 months younger than me. So I sort of took a lot of responsibility for him. And he still sometimes gets me Mother's Day cards. I really wanted to protect him. I gave him what I was missing. And what about your dad?

I think we're a lot closer than we would have been. I still struggle with feeling emotionally responsible for him. I almost became parentified, I think, as a child, trying to keep him happy, keep everybody happy, not expose my grief because it was upsetting other people, wanting to make sure everything was easy for my dad. You know, I became aware of housework, things like that. I feel like when my mum died, so did my childhood.

And at what point do you think you began to actually grieve? My adolescence was really difficult. I think during my teenage years was probably, yeah, the hardest part for me because I was trying to make sense of who I was, what it meant to be a woman. I was very aware of how different my life was to a lot of my peers. Some of the things that are coming out of today that are sticking with me is looking for mothers everywhere, like looking for that maternal love in my friends, in my friends in my friends mums in adult women

that were around me just and getting little snippets from different it was like it's like a patchwork of maternal love that I was just looking for being being cared for and being nurtured I think there's a difference between how mothers love and how fathers love or what you expect from both parents and even in my adult life my best friend from school as we get older I'm drawing the dots between her and seeing her become more and more like her mum and you know I think what does that mean for me because my idea of mother is is a patchwork of different women it's a patchwork of my small memories of my mum it's what people have told me about who

she was it's it's not like having that person walk you know be in your life the whole time what do you remember of her I remember she I remember she was funny and she was kind and she was a pushover she was just gentle and loving and I suppose the typical mum I was really attached to her as a kid it was safe it was you know I could yeah I felt like girls my peers who've grown up with mums I feel like they've had more of a confidence to figure out who they are and you know that space their mum sort of gives them that space and confidence to grow into who they are and when that's taken away from you quite early especially in those developmental years you don't you don't have that so is that what

you struggle with the most sort of figuring out who you are figuring out who I am my roles as opposed to it just being the person that holds everything else for everybody else in my family trying to work out who I am outside of that. I end up in relationships taking on that maternal role. I don't have any children. I do want children, but I am definitely scared that I don't know how to mother because I didn't have one. So there's fear around how I'm going to do it and how I'm going to do it without her guidance.

I'm Hannah. I'm 30 years old. I lost my mother when I was 27, and I started straight away trying to find people that understood what I'd been through. So I'm part of the UK Motherless Daughters Facebook group, and that's given me friends that I now go to different events with, and a place to go on certain anniversaries when I want to post about something

that I don't necessarily want to post publicly. My mother was coming home one night and she was killed in a car accident with a drunk driver. Him and his friends had been going out while she was coming home and he lost control of the car. There was a head-on collision and she was killed instantly. So it was a very, obviously a very sudden loss and very traumatic. We went through the court system over the next year. He's now in prison. And how has it impacted you? I think it's made me a lot more compassionate. I had a very good childhood.

I never really understood or had to understand loss or pain before. The terror attacks in Paris happened five days after my mum died and I remember watching them and just sitting and crying because really you could understand that sort of loss for the first time. What's helped you in the last three years? I think the fact that grief and loss isn't talked about enough means that people who are bereaved, especially suddenly, are really left with no guide on how this is supposed to be

and even the notion that it's supposed to be a certain way is very erroneous it's really taught me to uh to be kind to myself and to be kind to other people for the first year as an example I got a taxi to work every day for the first year after my mum died because that was the only way I could persuade myself to fight the battle from getting from my bed to the front door and that that's okay. There is no roadmap for this and it's not about coping or getting through it. It's about being kind to yourself and learning to look at how you feel and accepting that.

Hannah, Donna and Mithra were talking to our reporter Georgina Hughes and this is a tweet from Stevie who says, I'm also somebody without a mother. Mine died when I was nine suddenly. She's gone was what I heard as well. And I wondered where. Also, I didn't cry for four years either. I broke down, though, and cried at my school swimming exam.

I can imagine, Stevie, I'm so sorry to hear that. At BBC Woman's Hour on Twitter. And you might recall, actually, in an interview that I did with Penny Mordaunt a couple of weeks ago now, Cabinet Minister, of course, she talked about reaching the age that her mum had died at. And that is not an insignificant moment in people's lives, in women's lives, obviously. So if that is you and you'd be prepared to talk to us about that,

please do contact the programme. Email us via the website bbc.co.uk slash womanshour. Now, the award-winning author Tomi Adeyemi is here. Award-winning because your novel, Children of Blood and Bone, won what last night, Tomi? It won the Waterstones Older Fiction Book Prize. Great. Well, congratulations. Thank you. It feels good because I think you've been nominated for loads of awards.

This one you've nailed down. Yeah this one it was great too because this one this was the one I was like nervous for because I was like oh I would I really want it. I want it and I'm not used to one I'm used to just appreciating it so it was a more scary space to be in. Forget appreciating being nominated you want to win anyway you have now. Now tell us about this book because this is actually I think actually we'll start with a reading from the book because this is, it's another world. And let's just briefly dip into it. Here we go. I try not to think of her, but when I do, I think of rice. When mama was around, the hut always smelled of jollof rice. I think about the way her dark skin glowed like the summer sun.

The way her smile made Baba come alive, the way her white hair fuzzed and coiled, an untamed crown that breathed and thrived. I hear the mist she would tell me at night, Zane's laughter when they played Agban in the park, Baba's cries as the soldiers wrapped a chain around her neck, her screams as they dragged her into the dark, the incantations that spewed from her mouth like lava, the magic of death that led her astray. I think about the way her corpse hung from that tree. I think about the king who took her away. Tell us exactly what is going on in this world of yours. Yeah, so that is actually the very beginning of the book. And the whole book, I pitch it as Black Panther with Magic. It's this West African fantasy about a girl fighting to bring magic back to her people. So that's where the book opens up. And the reader learns that that's an event that occurred 10 years before the, you know, chapter one begins.

And in this world, which is, you know, it is this epic fantasy, it's this big adventure, but it's also an allegory for the modern black experience. I think this is really important. And I've read the author's note at the back of the book in which you say, although riding giant lionaires and performing sacred rituals might be in the realm of fantasy, all the pain, fear, sorrow and loss in this book is real. Yeah. That is so important, isn't it? Yeah. A big, I see my mission or at least my mission with this book,

but sort of my mission as a storyteller is just creating empathy. I think books uniquely, art uniquely can create empathy, but books is like the one chance you have to step inside someone else's head. And so the more personal it is, you can step inside someone else's heart. And for me, I was like, as in the black community, we weren't talking about what I call the emotional PTSD of living in this realm of police brutality, at least in America. I know there's problems worldwide, but really in America, there was this constant cycle of this unarmed black person got shot by a police. This person who was shot by

a police six months ago, you know, that police officer is not getting indicted. They're still on the force. You know, this girl who is exactly your age was assaulted in this target. You know, like you see, it's just constant. It's constant. The themes of racism and police brutality and colorism are absolutely embedded in this book. Is it easier to discuss those topics in a fantasy world then? I think it's easier to get everyone to the same playing field. And the reason I say that is everyone, from any background, any race, any marginalization, any gender, we all come with our own prejudices. And so when you're trying to talk about already really complicated, nuanced topics that are also extremely heated for some people, it's so easy to go in and not be able to communicate because you see the world in one specific way. It's going to be very difficult to get you to see it differently when that's how you've seen it for probably decades. Whereas if we go into a fantasy world where the rules are brand new so you see

the world the way I see it so for me I see it as creating this like level playing field and now I'll put situations in the real world inside this level playing field so we can experience it the same way you have taken elements of of West culture, in particular one sort of Yoruba culture, is that right? Yeah, so I am a first-generation Nigerian, so my parents were born in Nigeria and I was born in America. And the first seed of inspiration for this book was discovering the Orisha, which are like West African deities. And when I found out that the Orisha were from, like, not only West Africa,

but Nigeria, not only Nigeria, but Yoruba, which is like the tribe that my parents are in, like, the language my parents and family speak. You leapt at it. Yeah, I was just like, oh my, you know, I felt like I discovered this treasure in my backyard. And it had excited, it like created this fantasy world in my head but it also meant like okay writing this story I get to build it from my heritage and that was a really exciting like opportunity that I hadn't had before now I bet the young Tomi wrote all the time she did all sorts of stories but is it really the case that you would always make the central character white? wrote. I had just watched The Parent Trap with Lindsay Lohan. I really wanted a twin. And I gave myself a twin. And the people in the story were Tomi and Tomi. So it's like,

I saw myself enough. I loved myself enough to put two of me in the story. In everything I wrote from that point, I think I was around six till 18 when I realized I was doing this. I was still writing the things I wanted, but I was writing them as a protagonist who was white or biracial. And it was because I subconsciously wanted to be white or biracial. And I know a big part of that was because I was erased from all the things that I loved. I didn't see myself in the stories I loved. I didn't see myself in the books and the movies or the television. And so some I'd subconsciously internalize that I couldn't be in my own imagination. So I could write a story about dragons and portals, but a black person couldn't be in that story, you know,

and that is that's what happened in my mind. And so I just write very intensely with that notion that I can save the little version of myself. Yeah, but it took you until 18 to feel able to do that. Even it wasn't even that I felt able to. I just realized then because I was writing my college essay. And I was like, okay, let me look at my writing because that's something that's more unique to me. And then I saw the pattern and I was like, well, I have to start this journey. I have to start writing black characters as a method of learning to love myself.

And yeah, I didn't necessarily feel able to it was weird at first for me, it was awkward at first. It's incredible. And you've met with such success. And rightly, Tomi Adeyemi, The Children of Blood and Bone is her book. And I really do predict a big, big success for her in the future. Well, actually, she's enjoying a fair bit of it already. One listener called Jim just wanted to comment about Fergal Keane at the beginning of the programme. Jim says, I've been to Africa many times. I'm acutely aware of the incredibly important role of women in society,

the way they lead their lives, often in very challenging circumstances, hold their families together and support each other is inspiring and really humbling. Anyway, I went to the DEC website and I note that the government is matching donations, so your donation will double in value. I am giving a big amount, says Jim. Thank you. Well, thank you, Jim, for doing the right thing there. And you know what?

Jim's reminded me I haven't given anything and I should and I will, so I'm going to write it on my hand right now. We are preoccupied in this country at the moment aren't we which is another good reason actually to do that conversation today about what's happening in parts of Africa right now. Carol Morley the film director was on the program today and Linda says the sooner the purse string holders realize the economic advantage of older female roles in film and TV the better for everyone. The aging population doesn't want A lot of you very moved by the conversation you heard involving the three women whose mums had died.

This listener says, you don't have to be young to be devastated by your mother's death. The day my mother died four years ago was the worst day of my life so far. And I've had some grim experiences. I'm 51. The longer they are dead, the deeper the silence, she says, which is a very good way of putting it. From Claire, good to hear conversations about life without a mum in your life. I miss mine every day. I'm 67. ever seems to come close to that that you have with your mother. Christine says, I thought that was interesting. I'm 67. My mum died from kidney failure when I was nine in 1960. I'm an only child but also born with sight loss and I spent my school days in boarding schools. Each woman you spoke to said something that I recognise. Christine, thank you very much for that.

And JS has an idea which I think many people will find helpful. I find it good to put flowers and Mother's Day cards near my mum's photos and I do the same at Christmas as well. I hope this helps others, she says. Yes, that's a nice idea. I wonder whether it will help others. Thank you for that. And from Bridget, as I approached 79, the age at which my mother died, I got more and more nervous. I calculated the exact number of days beyond 79 that she'd lived and waited for the date, fully expecting to pop off. The stupid thing is when I passed the date, I stopped bothering and provided I reach it, I will be 87 in May, says Bridget. Well, all the very best to you, Bridget,

and I hope your birthday passes off well and you have a very good time. Thank you for making contact with us. Spare a thought, says an anonymous listener, for the children in the care system being looked after by foster carers. This time of year can be particularly difficult for these children and their carers

as they won't see their mum in many cases. The children will be encouraged to make cards, etc etc in school and that can be a very painful process that will lead to a lot of confusion. The 13 year old we have in our care for nearly four years now has in the past made something at school just to fit in with everybody else then ripped it up at home with us because of mixed loyalties and not really knowing how to feel. You know what? It is okay to feel cross that your mother gave up on you, says that anonymous listener who is a foster carer. Thank you for making that point really important.

Another listener, I just want to remain anonymous. I had to turn off the radio because of your feature on Mothering Sunday and how it affects children. I have metastatic cancer, which means I may die soon. I also have two children in their teens. You do the maths. It's so hard hearing this stuff for me and Mother's Day is going to be hard for the rest of the family too. Why do you do this feature from the perspective of the child? Why not do it from the perspective of all the different sort of people

reminded of loss at this time? Another good point, and we do welcome all these perspectives, and I think it's worth saying that I, for one, hadn't thought about that, and I'm sorry that you're going through such a tough time, and perhaps that is something that we should do on the programme in the very near future. Kay, I lost my mum when she was 56. I was 33 at the time.

And as I approach my 50s, I'm now 47. I'm aware of mortality so much more and thinking about how short life can be. I also lost my dad when he was 58. And it's weird now that my brothers are both in their early 50s. I had great parents and I miss them every day. I was so lucky, says Kay. Yeah, focusing on the positive, about how wonderful they were when they were around, which is another way of approaching it.

Thank you, Kay. And from Ross, my mum died from breast cancer when she was 49 and I was 22. At the time, I thought she was reasonably old. Her father had died at 52. My youngest brother was 14, though, at the time of her death. I did, however, feel marked and never assumed I'd live beyond 50. As my 50s approached, I'd be unsympathetic to friends who moaned about ageing, telling them that it was better than the alternative. I feel very lucky to now be 52 and in good health. My children are 17 and 20,

and I feel so lucky to have been around for their childhoods. One of my brothers died at 50. I weep for him and for his kids. Ross, thank you for that too. And I think you're right. I think perhaps those of us who have lived through most of our children's childhoods need to appreciate that that is our good fortune and hopefully theirs as well, of course.

Thank you very much, Ross. And thanks to everybody who interacted with us today, particularly those people who felt so moved by the conversation involving women whose mothers had died. Woman's Hour is of course back tomorrow for the weekend edition at two minutes past four and then again of course we are live on Monday morning at two minutes past ten but have a very good weekend Beyond Today is the daily podcast from Radio 4 it asks one big question about one big story in the news and beyond just how big is Netflix? why are young people getting lost in the system? I'm Tina Dehealy

I'm Matthew Price. And along with a team of curious producers, we are searching for answers that change the way we see the world. I was actually quite shocked by how many people this issue affects. So we're doing stories about technology, about identity. Are you trying to look black? No, I am not trying to look black. Power, where power lies, how it's changing.

And every weekday we speak to the smartest people in the BBC and beyond. It's basically what I've been wanting to do since I was little, to talk about business and economics. And the stories started forming in my head. That's what I've learned. It's okay to feel. Subscribe to us on BBC Sounds. And join in on the hashtag Beyond Today. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this?

What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.