Woman's Hour - Janelle Monae; Zara Aleena's aunt - Farah Naz; Marathon runner Christine Hobson, folk singers Bryony Griffith & Alice Jones

Episode Date: December 23, 2022

Photo credit: John Wilson/Netflix The Grammy nominated singer and actor Janelle Monae joins Krupa to discuss playing the role of Andi Brand in Netflix's Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery. They also discuss politics, including Janelle's thoughts on the rights of marginalised groups in the US as well as fashion and Janelle's love of dressing in the nude on holiday.In the early hours of June 26 this year aspiring lawyer Zara Aleena, 35, was sexually assaulted before she was killed by a man who had been released from prison less than two weeks before. She was attacked as she walked home from a night out along busy Cranbrook Road in Ilford, east London, an area she knew well and where she felt “safe”. Krupa speaks to Zara’s aunt – Farah Naz – about Zara, losing her and the family’s reaction to the murderer being allowed to stay in his cell rather than come to court to be sentenced last week.Sixty nine year old Christine Hobson from West Yorkshire has become the oldest woman to complete the Antarctic Ice Marathon. Braving the extreme weather conditions with minus 50C temperatures, she completed the marathon last Wednesday in just eight hours and 33 minutes. She has also now achieved the incredible feat of having run 117 marathons on seven continents. The fiddler and folk singer Bryony Griffith and singer, instrumentalist and percussive step dancer, Alice Jones are established solo artists at the heart of the UK folk scene. They have joined forces and earlier this year they released an album of Yorkshire songs and folklore: “A year too late and a month too soon” - which went to No.6 in Mojo folk albums of the year. They join Krupa Padhy live in the studio to discuss the tradition and to perform a Yorkshire Christmas song - Early Pearly, which they've recorded to raise funds for homeless charities.Presented by Krupa Padhy Producer: Louise Corley

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2. And of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme. Peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, this is Krupa Bharti and you're listening to the Woman's Hour podcast. Hello and thank you for joining us. Yesterday we heard the news that Damien Bendel, the man who murdered his pregnant partner, her two children and another child has been sentenced to a whole life prison term. The killings in Derbyshire last September took place just three months after he was given a suspended sentence for arson.

The horror and trauma of having a loved one brutally murdered by someone who was already in the probation system is something our guest Farah Naz, the aunt of Zahra Alina, who was murdered in June, understands all too well. Farah will join us. Also on the programme, December for many is the month for winding down, not for retired headteacher Christine Hobson, who only last week returned from completing the Antarctic Ice Marathon. At 69, it makes her the oldest woman to finish the race, and she's been telling me how she did it, keeping in mind she only started running marathons at the age of 60. Linked to this, I'm

keen to learn from you if there's anything you've picked up later in life and excelled at or not. A sport, an instrument, a dance, whatever it might be, we would love to hear about it. You can text the programme. That number is 84844 on social media we are at bbc women's hour that's on twitter and instagram you can email us through our website and you can now send us a whatsapp message and an audio note on whatsapp too that number is 03700 100 444 and i've been speaking to the american actor and singer janelle monet about the power of her music and her new film glass onion a knives out mystery and stay with us as we have a treat in store for you at the end of the show when a folk duo will be giving us a taste of

their new track early pearly but first we begin with a conversation of which details some of you may find upsetting. In the early hours of June the 26th this year, the aspiring lawyer Zara Alina, who was 35, was sexually assaulted before she was murdered by a man who had been released from prison less than two weeks before. She was attacked as she walked home from a night out along the busy Cranbrook Road in Ilford, East London. It was an area she knew well and where she felt safe. The man responsible for her murder was recently sentenced

to 38 years in prison. Zahra's aunt, Farah Naz, joins me now. Farah, first of all, thank you for joining us at what is such a difficult time for you and your loved ones. We do appreciate it. Thank you for having me. In your victim statement, and I know it was difficult and testing for you to make this statement, you said, when a human is murdered, a family is murdered. When a human is murdered, humanity is murdered. And I know you are an extremely close family. you give us a sense if you can of just how traumatic this has all been for you um well as. And we are a tight-knit, interdependent family.

We don't feel well physically, emotionally, or mentally. In the last six months, we all feel we've aged 10 years. Change feels tangible inside us. We quite feel stuck in time and we feel lost. We find it difficult to connect to one another, to ourselves, to our children. And each day takes so much effort. We've got so much work. We have to work so hard to live, to think.

For us to live again, we have to work so hard. And we find ourselves just not feeling safe in our minds, in our homes, in our streets, in our community, find ourselves looking over our shoulders in fear. Somebody asked me, you know, still, really, even after he's in prison, it's just still we feel afraid. We don't have peace. We don't sleep so well.

We're constantly tormented by images, by our thoughts, and we feel that we've been raped of our right to live normal lives. I can hear that sheer and utter fatigue in your voice there, Vara. Yes. Yeah, I'm exhausted. And we all are. And we're no longer ourselves, you know. We've been reduced to victims. We've lost our confidence. We've lost faith.

We've lost faith in ourselves, in our community. We've lost faith in our own instinct, our own survival instinct. And at the same time, there's something that it may seem very strange to say this, but at the same time, we also feel that we can't be hurt anymore. And we almost feel impenetrable now. So there's also an intense, strong feeling that we can't be touched. Because the very worst has happened. The very worst has happened.

Nothing more can happen to us. A lot of people say that when a loved one passes away there begins a new normal but for you it doesn't even sound like you've reached that point it just feels like everything that you recognize previously to be normal is simply unrecognisable? Yeah, there's definitely a before and after. There's, you know, this... We... It doesn't feel like a new normal. It feels like a new horror.

And we also know that we can't stay with that horror in order to to to work in order to live in order to support the younger ones in our family in order to support each other in order order to support my sister, Zara's mother. And so we know we can't stay there. And yet, and we know we have to enter some kind of normal, normality. But at the moment, it doesn't even feel like we're living, you know. I think, you know, I've always thought, and I speak for my family, we've always thought we're like a tree, all of us, a part of one tree. And it's like the tree has been assaulted the tree has been attacked and a part of it has just been ripped off and so for all of us something feels ripped off from

from us from our bodies and one one one thing that has been very clear throughout coverage of Zahra's murder and the statements that you have made on behalf of the family is just how close you all are and that comes through very very clearly. Can I ask whether if in any way the sentence of a minimum of 38 years for the man who murdered her brings you any closer to some kind of peace or healing? We will never have peace. How can we have any closure? Because nothing will bring Zara back to us worse than that is nothing is going to erase the memory of how her life ended that is never going to change that's firmly imprinted in our minds. It's imprinted in these conversations that we're having.

It's on paper. Most of the time, we don't really believe it's happened. Six months on, we still don't really quite believe it's happened. I've touched her body, her dead body, still don't feel that it's really happened. So I don't have closure. We don't have closure. Somebody reported, a journalist reported in the courtroom when the sentence was announced that the family did not react.

We didn't react because it doesn't, it gives us some retribution. We have some peace that society's protected from him and that other people's daughters can be safe in a way that Zara wasn't. But we're going to be haunted all our lives. And there is one way forward, and we've been walking on this path from the moment that we sat together after we heard that Zara was murdered.

And that is to work with others, to work with other families who have lost someone to murder, and to work with the VORG sector, the Violence Against Women and girls sector, to change society, to work with leaders, to act, and to give that very special insight that victims can give. Yeah. Jordan McSweeney, the man who murdered Zara, he refused to attend his sentencing at the Old Bailey.

He said he didn't want to relive the night he was brutally, she was brutally killed. Sorry. How did that make you and your family feel when Zahra's murder didn't come to the courtroom to be sentenced? Well, the judge called him spineless for not doing that. He held up proceedings for an hour that day, as he had done in previous hearings.

So it was consistent to his behaviour. We believe that he should have had to face what he did in court we believed that there should have been an imperative we were there we were there hearing it again we were there listening to it again watching that cctv coverage again, we were there watching what horrors Zara had to face and watching what he did to her and we felt compelled to witness the pain that she suffered alone. That he didn't have to face it just felt so wrong. It felt disrespectful to Zara's life. And somehow the court proceedings felt incomplete.

He should have had to face the eyes upon him in that courtroom. He should have had to face us. And we should have had the chance to look at him. We'll never get that chance. What difference would that have made to your journey, to your healing? I think the process of justice is about protecting society, but it is also about retribution. We needed some retribution. We needed to see his face and not knowing, you know,

not being able to see the human in him, you know, will also not enable us to ever forgive him. You had to give a deeply moving victim impact statement. Your mother also did that, and that surprised you. Well, from the outset, you know, the family really, my family really struggled, all of them. And almost at the 11th hour, my mother said, I want to do it. I want to give my statement. And it took me about, I don't know, 12 hours to write mine. And my mother sat next to me on the sofa and just spoke,

and in about five minutes I wrote it, wrote what she spoke. She was incredible. And she was insistent. She's 80 years old, and she was insistent that she would write it and read her own impact statement. She wanted to tell him how he'd stolen her peace. And she wanted to wish him no peace. And she wanted to look at him and tell him that, that she wished him no peace. And she wanted to look at him and tell him that, that she wished him no peace. And your mother is someone who I understand rarely leaves the house.

Well, yes, she really leaves the house. She's a woman of strong faith, but she is a powerful feminist and hence the rest of us have followed and learnt from her to speak, to speak our minds. She's also a great protector of all of us and she did it for Zara, she did it for Zara's mother, my sister. She spoke for us. She wants to fight for us now. And she wants to campaign too. And she wants to evoke change. Yeah. We've heard about Zara being an aspiring lawyer. But you knew her at a much, much deeper level. You've known her all her life. Tell us what she was like. Zara was like, you know, she was all our daughter. Up until she was about five, she called four of us mother.

She was our Zara. And that's how, you know, we would call her, our Zara. And, you know, she was our baby for a long time. And, you know, 35 is not so young, but she was still the baby of the family. And at five years old, you know, she announced that she wanted to be a lawyer. And that dream stuck. And it was the concept of justice and fairness

that really struck her. It was really something that was... that was important to her all her life. She worked hard. She completed her law degree. She did her postgraduate. She completed the legal practice course with distinction. She worked really hard. She was a hard worker. She worked really hard.

She was a hard worker. She was a hard worker. She wasn't so confident in her studies, but she always did well. But because she wasn't so confident, she'd be working all hours of the night. And, you know, and the results were excellent and beyond that. And Zara throughout her adult life never had a period of unemployment. She was either a student or she was working or she was doing both, and on top of that she would have been volunteering somewhere. She'd worked in soup kitchens.

She was serving the homeless. So someone who really gave back to her community, I can clearly hear that. Really gave back. She was a good citizen, you know. And not just as a volunteer, but also in the local community. All the neighbourhoods, you know, the two neighbourhoods that she lived in, her mother's house and her grandmother's house there were two communities there everybody knew her everybody came to the vigil after she died and they all adored her and and she would stop and she always had time for people um her big love was animals and you could say that she was the local cat samaritan and she would

she would always be on the lookout for stray cats abandoned cats and she'd rescue them and she'd take them to the vet and and out of her own pocket she'd have them seen to and taken care of. And then she would rehouse them amongst the neighbours because my mother would say, no more cats in our house. So she'd rehouse them. And quite a few of the neighbours have got cats because of Zara. And they didn't necessarily like cats, but they took them in because Zara persuaded them. She sounded, well she sounds like she was, a wonderful soul

and I know that you've been central in caring for your family and I sincerely hope that you too are taking care of yourself. I wish you and your family much fortitude as you continue on this path in the coming months and years on healing from the loss the brutal loss of your dear Zara thank you so much Farah Naz for joining us here on Women's Hour. Thank you for having me. And I will add that a Ministry of Justice spokesperson has said that this was an appalling crime and our thoughts remain with Zahra, Alina's family and loved ones. The Deputy Prime Minister requested an independent review into this case

and we cannot comment on until this is completed. Those on licence are required to abide by strict conditions and will be immediately recalled to custody if necessary. We will of course continue to keep across developments related to this story in the coming months as well. Now, will you and the family be sitting down to watch a film or two over the festive period? You may be tempted by Glass Onion and Knives Out Mystery,

which arrives on Netflix today. The one who did it with a twist has a star-studded cast, including Daniel Craig, Kate Hudson and Janelle Monáe. And I was lucky enough to speak to the Grammy-nominated singer-turned-actor Janelle Monáe a few days ago. You may know her for her music, including the iconic track Tightrope or for her previous acting roles in Hidden Figures, which told the inspiring story

of three African-American women who contributed to the NASA space program during the 60s or the Oscar-winning film Moonlight. Speaking to Janelle as her latest film launches we discussed how it was making the film in lockdown and we also talked politics including her thoughts on the rights of marginalized groups in the US and even dressing in the nude. I began by asking Janelle how she connected with her character, Andy Brand, a female tech entrepreneur. Well, first of all, it's a dream to be working with writer and director Rian Johnson, who wrote such a rich, dynamic, layered character that is Andy Brand. And the whole script, when I read it, I was blown away by it. And seeing who she is and what she represents in that world, it gave me so much excitement because I knew I was going to get an opportunity to play.

You know, she's so mysterious and layered with a lot of backstory. And, you know, honestly, it's a dream, a dream role to be able to portray her and all that she is. And you say who she represents in this world, because it is significant that she is a woman of color in a tech world, because there are not many Black women in that industry talk us through that what that meant to you well I don't think it was race specific you know when when it didn't specify that she was black or or anything um african-american when I got the script uh so I obviously just brought that to it and which is great and you're right. There are not a lot of women of color, Black folks, Black women in those positions. So we felt so good to honor her as a Black woman to showcase

what it's like when you're working with those tech bros who are like sharks. And, you know, she has such big, bright ideas. And it's just a look in on what women have to go through and go through in that industry. Absolutely. You work alongside Daniel Craig, of course, best known for playing James Bond. But it's a whole cast of top actors, quite the team you've been. Iconic cast, dream cast. And I have to just say I'm so thankful for Daniel because he is iconic in his role as Benoit Blanc. And, you know, essentially this is he and Ryan's baby. And for him to trust me with his role and to have me along board is no small thing. And to be able to just watch Edward and Kate and Catherine and Leslie and Dave and, you know, my whole cast, Jess and Madeline, all of them every day was like such a pleasure.

They each had unique processes. We had so much fun just getting to know each other, getting to bond as well. So I'll hold this experience dear to my heart. And Janelle, how much was that impacted by the fact that you recorded this, you filmed this in the midst of the pandemic, when the movie industry we know was struggling on so many levels, but you came together and made a movie. I mean, that's quite explicit, even in the film, there are little snippets that hints towards the fact that you are in a pandemic. What was what was that like like I imagine it only brought you much closer together you're exactly right you know because we had to stay together in our COVID free bubble

none of us wanted to be the actor that got COVID and had to cancel the production or postpone so we were we were you know with the producers and everyone we we were vigilant about just staying with each other entertaining entertaining each other. We had murder mystery parties at the bar, at the top of our hotel. We would sing together, just spend some good time. And I think all of that showed up on set and showed up on the screen. It did indeed, because it's not just a murder mystery. It's a comedy. How was it navigating that genre? Well, I hadn't really you know up into this film explored comedy in this way you know and and and uh it's a specific tone too

um which I love a specific kind of comedy um and I think for me I was I was just excited to get a chance to tap into the comedic side of my character. Also the deep, dramatic, emotional side of her. And even doing some action. You know, there was a lot going on with Andy. So many layers. Andy is a fascinating character in so many ways. Acting aside, music has always been a deep passion of yours since you were singing as a young girl at church, as I've been learning.

And then it is, in fact, as a singer that you found international access. Your third album, The Dirty Computer, came out in 2018. You've even released a book in relation to that album. Do you think the music will keep coming or is acting where your heart is at right now? Music, acting, storytelling is something that I've been doing since I can remember. There never was a time in my life where I wasn't doing both. And I'm very inspired to continue to tell stories on the music side, the acting side. So just stay tuned. Oh, it sounds exciting. Great. So excited. Yeah.

And that book that I mentioned there, The Memory Librarian, it's a science fiction story. It deals with a totalitarian society taking memories away from people and giving them new identities so that they can be controlled. And those characters, they are mainly queer women and non-binary people. And they fight back. Why was this so important for you to write about? Well, as a non-binary person, representation matters. And I love to honor my community in whatever way that I can. I love, I'm so thankful that I have been able to put out a book where folks who are, you know, looking for community can find solace in this book and can feel seen and feel heard. And I'm just so thankful to continue to

tell stories around just the people that I think are so cool, you know, and deserve the spotlight. And I know that journey's been multi-layered for you as well. So writing that book, it must have been quite a moment for you. Yeah, yeah, it was good to get out your thoughts. And I have a unique experience of collaborating because it's a collection of short stories. So on each short story, I picked an author to co-write with me. You know, I would come up with, you know, log lines, thought experiments, like what if, what if, what if. And I wanted to show that in the literary world, just like much like in the music world, when people do compilation albums and you bring in your bass player and your

drummer, you know, there's room for writers to collaborate. And that led us to the New York Times bestselling list, which, you know, doing it by myself is one thing, but when you do it with people within your community, it's a completely different other thing. Yeah. I want to talk about your music moving into the political sphere, because in 2021, you released a song called Say Her Name, and that highlighted the deaths of Black women at the hands of the U.S. police. It's 17 minutes long. It features many female artists, including Beyonce and Alicia Keys. We can hear a short burst of it now. Explain the backstory to writing that song.

I think it's pretty self-explanatory, you know, 17 minutes of saying names of trans women, Black, Brown, Indigenous women in America who have been murdered at the hands of police and the abuse of power. And we wanted to honor them. We wanted to draw attention to their stories. Some of their families haven't received justice. And I have to give credit to the Say Her Name movement and Kimberly Crenshaw for gathering us all and doing the real work to help bring justice to their families. And then linked to that, Janelle, you released another song that this was actually prior to that in 2015, related to marching in the Black Lives Matter protests. I mean, helped us understand how you see the relationship between politics and your music.

My music is multifaceted. You it's not all politics it's not all political but I think when I feel like I have something to say and I feel like I want to draw attention to the people who are pushed to the margins of society and injustice is happening then I move on that. Yeah and then staying with politics the the Florida governor, Rob DeSantis, who many say could run for president in 2024. He signed the so-called Don't Say Gay Bill, which essentially bans LGBTQ plus topics in elementary schools. And the Texas governor, Greg Abbott, he signed a legislation that restricts how race and U.S. history is taught in these state schools. How do you feel about the state of politics in the United States as far as marginalized groups are concerned? I think what they're doing is evil, point blank.

And I've already been very vocal about that. And I think that we cannot let them get into office because we know that it is through policy, you know, systemically that the LGBTQIA plus communities, Black folks, marginalized folks will continue to be oppressed. We know that policy is like a way in which they can abuse their power. So I'm just begging everybody living in those states to make sure that they don't get in office, let them go be evil in their own homes. Well, let's leave politics to one side now and change the subject to something entirely different. Your fashion journey, that's been quite the story. I mean, right now,

if I describe to our listeners what you're wearing, it's, you know, a checkered gray suit, firm shoulder pads, black tie, the white shirt, the glorious earrings. You look magnificent. What does fashion mean to you and your identity? I love expressing myself, you know, as an artist. And I think as a storyteller, you can always tell the story through fashion. I mean, right now I'm wearing Tom Brown, who is one of my favorite American designers. And, you know, he I'm like anything that he makes as a designer myself, I'm like, oh, I would have I would have made that. You know, so he keeps me inspired and wishing that I had made these things. So I always like to support that. And he supported me since the beginning of my career, you know, over a decade, he's been dressing me and we've been collaborating with each other. So

I think it also tells a story of collaboration of great relationships too. Yeah. And what about the idea of kind of power? Because in a lot of your images, videos, there's the strong shoulder pads, there's the classic tux. Is there an element of kind of power that you're trying to push through in the way that you dress? I think that I'm evolving.

I think that I do wear tuxedos and shoulder pads and stuff, but I also will go on vacation and be completely nude and we can see that on your Instagram feed I mean what you wore for your birthday this year uh you know taking birthday seats to a whole different level with your breasts on display gold glitter covering your nipples there was there was a fire display in the background you look beyond happy are you happy where you are right now in life I am I am I'm being as present as I possibly can I think you know sort of doing this retrospective on life and especially pre-pandemic life um constantly moving you know always thinking

about the future and I'm an artist that creates in the future so much. So now I'm using the present as inspiration and I find it more satisfying. I call myself a present tourist, not a futurist, but a present tourist trying to be engaged with the present. And that was Janelle Monáe speaking to me a little earlier. Now, thank you to the many of you who have been getting in touch with us about taking up something new later in life and maybe excelling at it as well. Rose has got in touch to say, in relation to this morning's programme

and taking up something new, I am 76 years old. I've taken up weightlifting as research shows that it's good for older women. I am now slightly concerned that there won't be anyone to compete against as I want to enter competitions. That from Rose and from Rose to Rosie, who writes, I took up the cello age 70. No previous musical knowledge at all. And musical instruments seem to be popular because Kathy writes, At 60, I joined a punk band.

I had never played an instrument before or sang or wrote songs. And now I do all three. And the reason we asked you this question was because of the amazing achievement of 69-year-old Christine Hobson from West Yorkshire. She has become the oldest woman to complete the Antarctic ice marathon. Braving the extreme weather conditions with minus 50 temperatures, she completed the marathon last Wednesday in just 8 hours and 33 minutes. It also means she has achieved the incredible feat of having run 117 marathons on seven continents, despite only starting to run at the age of 60. I caught up with her earlier this week and I began by asking her how she first got into marathon running.

I retired in 2014 on the Friday at Easter and on the Sunday I did London Marathon as my first and probably, I thought, only marathon just to prove that although I'd retired, I wasn't old and unfit. And that was where I started, really. And it's clearly led on to something fantastic because you've gone on to complete many more marathons. Well, I've done 117 now and all my continents. I'm really pleased with that. And Antarctica. 117 marathons in how many years? It'll be nine years. I think my husband says if I do another three before I am 70 in July, I will have done the equivalent of one a month for 10 years. Does he run with you by any chance?

No, I think he just chases me on. He's my logistics manager. He books everything. An important role, an important role. Because whilst you're focusing on the training, he's getting all the paperwork in order. sound like you make a top team um let's talk about this antarctic ice marathon in particular why did you want to do this one specifically in order to get my seven seven continents i needed to do antarctica so that was the first thing. And I was originally doing one on King George Island,

which is right on the tip. But that got cancelled this February. And when I got into it for the ice marathon, they said someone had pulled out and did I want to place, but I had to be ready in three weeks. And then you got there. How did it feel arriving in Antarctica? It was wonderful.

I can't believe how white white can be. And it was so silent because we were right in the middle of Antarctica. So there was no there's no life there at all. Nothing, not a bird, not a penguin, nothing. And so when the wind isn't blowing, there is absolute silence, and it's awe-inspiring. And underneath, you can actually walk on it all right. I sort of expected to sink into snowdrifts, but it is almost solid ice everywhere. So it all felt very straight, but it was beautiful, but very brutal with the weather, very brutal. And you talk about solid ice there. How did that work out with your with your training well I've not done any uh the nearest I've done to anything that was cold was in 2018 I did seven marathons in seven days in the beast from the east I don't know if people remember the beast from the east but it wasn't a good thing to do

a marathon in no absolutely not and so let's talk about you camping at the Union Glacier the night before. How did that go? Oh, that was fabulous. But we were just in tiny little tents. And I actually shared with Jeannie Cordy Simpson, who's also from the UK. And I was glad I was with someone because it felt eerie. It was like being on another planet, really. And then you and Jeannie had to do a practice run together. Well, we all went out to do a practice run and that was what really terrified me.

It brought it all home because as we set off, the ice was uneven and it was a completely different running motion to what I was used to and there were all these fit young fellas that dashed off I think there were a dozen or so women uh but they'd all they all went flying off and I was like the turtle at the back and I just absolutely panicked. I thought, how am I going to do this tomorrow? And I don't know who it was, but one of these young fellas realised I was getting a bit distressed and he came and he dragged me to the front when we were setting off. And he said, you've got to run your own race which I knew but I

just panicked and he set me off in front of the others and suddenly I was back in my own mental space and I thought I can do this it's not a problem honestly it's not a problem Chris I can do this. But was there ever a point where you thought that that's it, I can't do it? When you said that you were running like a turtle at the back of the group and all these younger folk dashing on ahead, was there ever a point where you thought, why am I putting myself through this? In the race, yes. But I remember that I'd read somewhere that someone had said, who'd been there before it was something like I haven't come this far

just to go this far and I just kept saying this to myself carry on I haven't come this far just to go this far. The power of the mind what about the sheer impact of the brutal cold on your breathing for example that that was worse than i expected and i still got all my lips are all chapped uh my mouth is still sore uh my voice went for two days afterwards and it was all frost burned basically on on the system because you're breathing in this very cold air and and that also affects your energy because you're not as you're doing that you're not breathing as naturally as you would normally do it's a lot to put yourself through um you finally crossed that finish line describe that moment for us oh well uh jeannie my tent tent buddy uh was actually waiting for me which was wonderful and i just i just fell into her

arms and we both ended up crying because she'd she'd like held herself back when she'd finished so it was a lovely moment because it was crying with happiness but relief that we'd done it and that you know because you're not not sure when you start when you people tell you it's so hard whether you will actually complete and you've just got to you can't have a second go at it you've just got to do it's a long way to go 1177 marathons, seven continents. What is next for you? Well, I hadn't a plan. And then when I was out there, they were all saying to me that I really ought to get the Grand Slam, which is doing the North Pole Marathon as well, which is at the North Pole. so I'm looking into that now well I just I think it all started by trying to be fit to be older when I began it but actually over time people started saying about

that it was inspiring to see somebody older doing doing these things and that, you know, I wasn't just sat in front of the television and waiting my time out, so to speak. And so the thing that I really get out of this is inspiring other women, particularly those older women, that they've given up work and now what are they going to do? And I'm not saying they should all go running, but I'm just showing them that if you want to do something, you really can just do it.

And our thanks to Christine Hobson for taking the time to speak to Women's Hour and we wish her all the very best with her next challenge. A new powerful duo which emerged from lockdown, the fiddler and folk singer Bryony Griffith and singer, instrumentalist and percussive step dancer Alice Jones are established solo artists at the heart of the UK folk scene and they've joined forces and earlier this year they released an album of Yorkshire songs and folklore A Year Too Late and A Month Too Soon which went

to number six in the Mojo Folk Albums of the Year. They join me live now in the studio and a little later they'll be performing a Yorkshire Christmas song for us called Early Pearly. Do stay with us for that. But Bryony and Alice, welcome to the programme. Thank you. I want to learn about your journeys into folk music.

Oh, well, I started learning violin classically at school and I sort of found folk music in my teens, listening to The Mission and The Levellers and that kind of thing. And once I'd started listening to that, I was like, that's for me. It's, I don't know, much more fun than playing in orchestra. White clear cut.

Yeah, yeah. I started when I was quite young. I was very lucky to have this festival in my village where there was lots of folky stuff going on. And I decided I had some little red tap shoes and some hankies and I used to join in with the Morris dancers. But I did see the error of my ways and I got joined into a Yorkshire longsword team.

So I started from the dance aspect of it, from the step dancing, and then joined a group called Ribon Three Step, who are a community arts organisation that ran ceilidh dances and folk club and sessions and all sorts. So I was kind of, I must have been about eight or nine when I first started and decided I liked folk music for some reason. So very much a part of your roots, your heritage. Absolutely.

You both were doing folk before you got together and then you created an album in lockdown. How did you manage that? We don't know. Well, we'd started doing the duo before lockdown. We weren't really planning to do an album. But then because we couldn't do gigs, we were like, well, let's try and make something of this situation. So we'd send emails to each other and recordings.

And actually, in the end, it turned out the best way to do anything together was down a good old-fashioned landline. There you go. That was the only way you didn't get a delay. Goonies or this high-tech. Well, the high-tech stuff meant there was a time lag, so the only way we could do it was that way. So one of us with a phone and lying on the harmonium

and playing. But it did give us a lot more time to do some deeper research into the songs and find different versions, which I think if we'd rushed into making an album before we wouldn't have come up with the versions Yeah, gave you the headspace. We actually narrowed our focus so we're both really into

our local traditions and heritage in West Yorkshire specifically but when we first started gigging we had material from further afield like some stuff from Lancashire and everything and I don't know if it was partly because of the lockdown thing

and you're confined to this locality and you sort of appreciate what you've got around you. And then we kind of went that way with all the songs and the tunes as well and just really focused in on the Yorkshire aspect of it. And that, I don't think that would have happened necessarily if we'd not made the album during lockdown. So that clear focus was there.

But I'm keen to understand from you more about the songs and their meanings especially in regards to gender representation. Yes it's an interesting one because I think it's skewed a lot by the male perspective in terms of we research a lot of songs that have been collected. People have gone out to villages and social places to find people to collect songs from. And now a lot of those people that had that privilege of going out and doing that, the freedom to go and do that, a lot of them were men. And a lot of the people in the situation, so for example, the pubs that they might go to to get songs from people, a lot of the people in there were men. So, for example, there's quite a few songs on the album from the collection of Mary and Nigel Huddleston, who were a couple who lived in North Yorkshire and collected in the 50s and 60s. And Mary actually had started doing it and realised that it wasn't really the

right place for a woman to be going on her own and, you know, asking men questions in pubs kind of thing so she actually got in touch with FDIS the English Folk Dance and Song Society and said please can you put me in touch with a reliable good man that um can chaperone me basically and so Nigel Huddleston ended up doing that and then they fell in love and got married. I love the tales behind the old folk stories and this old folk music. In your specific album, you're trying to seek out those songs where really women come out on top. That's that's partly my influence.

I have a little bit of them. So we both have solo act as well as we perform separately. And and my solo act is particularly focused on I go out and find songs where essentially the gender role is reversed because usually the men are the ones that get away with doing stuff and they're sort of messing women around. And, you know, there's not so many songs where women are doing that sort of thing, which I'm not saying, you know, is a good thing. I'm not condoning any of the activities, but it's nice to have a lady's, a woman's sort of perspective on particular stories. And there's some songs on the album, one called The Grey Mare, where the lady is shunned by this man who's kind of after her money and he asks for her hand in marriage

and her dad's best horse. And her dad's like, absolutely no way you can't have that. So at the end of the song, she goes, ha, well, you shouldn't have asked to marry my dad's horse then, should you? And things like that really attracted us, those kinds of stories where maybe men that weren't behaving terribly well

did get their comeuppance in the end. But also I think the people that the songs were collected from very often was men because they were the people that were, you know, out in the pub when people came collecting. Very often the women were at home. There's one song on there, What Is That Blood On My Shirt Sleeve? And I'd heard a version from a great singer from Sheffield

called Frank Hinchcliffe, which I'd kind of learnt from an album of his in the 70s. And the more research I did, I found out that he had a cousin called Grace Walton and there was a version that was just hers. So we got in touch with a guy called Ian Russell, who'd actually recorded her versions in the 70s. And he sent us those versions. We really wanted to kind of have a listen to that.

That wasn't as easily available as the other version of it. So we were like, we'd like to hear her version, please. I can certainly hear how much heart you put into this. There is another song in particular. Willie went to Westerdale. version please i can certainly hear how much heart you put into this um there is there is another song in particular willie went to westerdale it's been criticized for being misogynistic well yeah so willie has um gone and found him this wife gets back to his farm uh he's quite displeased with how rubbish she is at doing all the tasks like milking the cow she milks the cow in the chamber pot she roasts a hen with its feet and head on and all this kind of

thing and yeah it's it's been called misogynistic really but frankly i reckon she's doing it on purpose because then she doesn't have to do it again all the things are so ridiculous i'm like that she's definitely putting that on so nobody ever asked her to do it ever again you are going to perform a Yorkshire Christmas song for us. It's called Early Pearly. Tell us about it. Oh, well, this is from... So I heard this, I listened to it when we were making the album and it's from an album called Transpennine by Dave Hillary and Harry Boardman.

So it's Yorkshire and Lancashire songs. And I heard it then and thought, oh, that would be really good if we ever did a Christmas album or something. And so I put it at the back of my mind. Found another version, there's a great website called the Yorkshire Garland website with loads of recordings of source singers. And Steve Gardham is one of the people that's put it all together

and there's a recording of his mum singing a version of Early Pearly and they sang it as a lullaby in their family for sort of four generations so we've sort of mixed together the two versions we've nicked a few words from margaret's version and the the catchy tune from well we can't wait to hear you give us a taste of it you are about to take the mic and play us out. Thanks for listening. There's plenty more from Woman's Hour over at BBC Sounds. Dance. It entertains us and it connects us.

And in my second series of Ultima Busse's Dancing Legends, I explore some more iconic dancers who have been doing just that. Join me, Ultima Busse, as I delve into the lives of these trailblazers and pioneers who have changed the world of dance forever. The tap dancing duo who astounded audiences with their acrobatic skills. The Hollywood legend who showed her versatility across different dance styles on screen. We'll hear about it all, so let's celebrate the magic of dance together. Subscribe to Ultima Busse's Dancing Legends on BBC Sound. there who's faking pregnancies. I started like warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been

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